After the shooting at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando earlier this year, there was renewed talk about the importance of gay bars and other “safe spaces” where LGBTQ people can come together. But what happens when those spaces become infiltrated by straight people?
Related: Why Straight Girls Who Hang Out In Gay Bars Can Be A Big Problem
“For someone who’s gay, a night out in a gay bar means that they don’t have to brush off homophobic comments disguised as ‘banter’ and aren’t at risk from violence and harassment from people who don’t agree with their sexuality,” Lottie Tiplady-Bishop writes in a new blog post published by The Tab.
The post, titled Should straight people go to gay clubs?, raises the question of whether or not heterosexuals still need work on “recognizing their privilege” before going out to gay clubs.
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Related: Four Reasons Everyone, And We Mean Everyone, Should Be Welcome To Party With Us At Gay Bars
“Even though most would assume the kind of straight person who would choose to visit a gay club would be fairly open minded,” Tiplady-Bishop writes, “there’s still a risk that the more integrated a gay bar becomes, the higher the risk of homophobia.”
She then brings up the issue of straight people often viewing gay bars as a “novelty,” where they can go “to ogle gay people, ‘turn’ them straight or scream at drag queens.”
“Obviously gay culture is very vibrant and this makes for a great atmosphere on a night out,” she writes, “but there’s a fine line between appreciation and appropriation.”
Related: Student Says She Was Kicked Out Of Gay Club For Being A Woman, Contacts Police
“It’s totally possible to just go to a gay club and have a good time whether you’re gay or not,” Tiplady-Bishop concludes, “but there is a deeper significance to gay venues that’s sometimes too easily forgotten.”
What are your thoughts on straight people in gay bars? Sound off in the comments section below…
Chris
Oh Lottie, stop using big words like privilege and appropriation that hurt my brain and let’s have fun. THAT’s why those bars are there in the first place.
Juanjo
I am tired of this nonsense where people think allowing straight people to go to a gay bar is bad. If a person is misbehaving, whether gay or straight, then they should be removed.
jheryn
I find the question just stupid. If you start barring straight people from gay venues then you leave yourself wide open for straight people banning LGBT people in their establishments.
After fighting so hard to be accepted and not discriminated against, banning straights from gay bars would be a big huge bag of hypocrisy.
Heywood Jablowme
How do you *prove* someone is straight anyway?
joeyty
Only if they’re evil cisgender Christians from Texas !!!!! aaargghh
ErikO
Of course not. There have been times when bisexual people in gay/LGBT bars have been made to feel unwelcome or told they don’t belong because they are not “gay” or not “gay enough”, or even with an opposite sex/gender partner.
Granny Spoth
As I read this article, I really began to think gay people should be banned from gay bars…
Privilege, appropriation, harassment, microagressions, etc. all the big words are here. Lesson well learned.
Aromaeus
They don’t need to be banned but they do need to understand that gay bars and gay establishments are our safe haven from their hetero BS so if they have an issue they are free to go to the thousands of other bars that cater to their mess.
Brian
There should not be gay bars or straight bars. Bars should not be allowed to market on the basis of sexual feelings. It’s discriminatory and segregationist.
Some of the blame must be placed on the segregatonist attitudes of the gay community. Gay-identifying men created the gay/straight divide in response to a desire for unfettered promiscuity in social gatherings.
Blame must also be placed on women in general. Women are constantly afraid that male homosexual desire will interfere with their ability to market themselves to men. Women see men as a threat if the common object of desire is a man.
CaliKyle
@Brian: Historically, the “gay/straight divide” was, in fact, created by the hetero community, Brian. And the divide was made hostile and violent overwhelmingly on the part of straight-identifying males. In response to this divide – or let’s just call it what it is: bigotry and discrimination – the gay male community sought to create segregated social spaces to preserve our safety and self expression. The promiscuity alleged to be so unique to gay males is likely no greater than what exists among straight guys. Also, for so long homosexual romantic relationships were taboo which drove many of us to seek out quick, anonymous sex with other men since dating or being affectionate or emotionally intimate with each other was not an option.
DistingueTraces
If policing bathrooms for trans people was ridiculous, is policing bars to verify the sexuality of patrons any less so?
“Get out, breeder.”
“No, please! I’m just a super-masc top, I swear! This woman is my hag!”
ingyaom
My observation in Seattle is that on some nights the crowd in a gay bar could be as much as 50% hetero. It’s nice that straights seem to enjoy patronizing gay bars, but I think it would also be nice if gays had places to go that were all or mostly gay. That said, an easy chat-up line in a Seattle gay bar these days is: “Hi, are you gay?”
barkomatic
The idea of keeping straight people out of gay bars is ludicrous and another product of overzealous college aged social justice majors. If I can’t bring my straight friends to a gay bar then I’ll go to a place where we are all welcome. I resent the idea that someone else can dictate who I hang out with and where I’m allowed to go if I’m with my supportive straight friends. This whole election cycle and the past few years in general have been divisive and awful. I refuse to let these people manipulate me.
Billy Budd
This is sheer madness. You can’t segregate and discriminate against straight people. Whoever misbehaves, whatever the sexuality, must be 3xpelled.
Me2
I’ve never liked the idea of straight women in gay clubs, it just seems invasive. I definitely wouldn’t be opposed to banning them. But generally speaking, straight people, especially straight men, in gay clubs is very unlikely in my city.
cabe
@jheryn:
There are several reasons why I think it is important for gay people to have a safe space of their own – especially in conservative areas:
1) The day that a group of gay guys can walk into a ‘bro sports bar wearing hot pants, holding hands or yelling “GURRL” w/out being harassed is the day I say we no longer need guy bars.
2) The religious freedom restoration act allows business owners in several states to ban gay people for religious reasons. So, yes gays can still be legally refused service at any business in those states. It is good to have a gay refuge and if I am waiting in line to get into a popular bar and 4 girls get admitted in front of me I’m going to be pissed.
3) Many gay bars I go to now are 50% straight female which not only dampens the sexual mood in my opinion but all those women bring straight male admirers and pretty soon you have a straight bar. If I go to a gay bar, I go to be around fellow gays and not so many straight folks. 99% of the bars in any city are straight – why crash the gay party when you have so many other options.
I work in a financial services company w/ all straight men who talk about pu$$y and football 24/7. Come the weekend I like to let loose and be in a not so straight environment. Is there anything wrong w/ that??
cabe
@Billy Budd:
Have you heard of the religious freedom restoration act? Many businesses in approx 20 state can and do refuse service to gay people. We still don’t have a level playing field.
Straight people can go to almost any bar in their city w/out problems. A lot of gay people can’t say the same. So why should the straight person take up the space of a young gay person who really wants and needs to be there?
Bottom line – it’s not that straight people should be banned but I feel like there is this sense of entitlement like a gay establishment was made just for them. Most straight people wouldn’t just waltz into a Banda Mexican DanceClub in East L.A. and start screaming songs in English and interrupt the scene? Yet, straight women – particularly bachelorette parties – barge into the gay bar and take over all the time.
cabe
@barkomatic:
but that is just the point – you bring your straight friends to a gay bar b/c you think it will be fun. If straight people have taken it over then you no longer will want to go to this former gay bar because it is now straight and no longer has cache.
If the idea of a gay bar has no meaning to you then just go to the local bro bar to begin with
Kangol
Short answer: No. So long as they accept that they are in a gay/queer space and can deal with LGBTQ people being ourselves, what’s the issue?
yonderbeau
To put it simply, sometimes people drink and have misunderstandings.
Another concern I have is when enough straight people think (true or not) that there are a lot of straight people at the gay bar. Critical mass plus privilege can produce bad behavior. It’s like a group of bridesmaids or any group that isn’t aware that the space is different in ways they may not immediately understand.
JED08
Guys, we are not small people, so let’s not act like we are. If someone’s looking for a good night out, then welcome them in and show them how it’s done.
broadshoulder
Yes, because the sheer mass of people turns it from a gay bar to a STRAIGHT bar
Seen it happen numerous times…..
bambamboom777
I used to bring my str8 friends to gay bars all the time. It was just normal for most of them. We even celebrated their birthdays and one couple announced their engagement. Gay bars often serve as a safe space for many straight people too. I know a lot of females who enjoy the atmosphere where they can just have fun and not feel like it’s one big meat market. Straight guys have told me they like not having to deal with competitive macho b.s. that they deal with at many straight venues. There’s also the exposure to the gay community that breaks down the stereotypes and fears. After so many years of getting together with mixed groups of friends and hanging out in predominantly gay venues, you don’t even think of each other so much as gay or straight so much. Some of my straight friends are far more vocally pro-gay and know more about the community than many lgbt people. And it would really upset me to see them discriminated against simply because of who they are attracted to.
I’m assuming this is the scenario being referred to in the article. On the other hand, yeah, I can see the problem with a group of straights who think it would funny to go to a gay bar just for laughs. That’s totally different. And of course, if it’s some dark cruisy hookup bar with backrooms filled with action, then yeah, it would be a little weird to have straight girls giggling as they inspected the dark corners with flashlights. I really don’t think that’s a big problem though. If people are curious they can see anything and everything gay they want on the internet without having to leave home.
Baba Booey Fafa Fooey
@broadshoulder: Me too. Personally, I’m fine with keeping straight people out because gay clubs are my escape from them. It’s my personal preference to keep them out, but they can still go – I guess. But, you don’t have to associate with them either. Just go and have fun!
robho3
@Brian: you are a baffoon Brian.
robho3
The worst is when a bachelorette party come to a gay bar and takes over — I hate that.
LeatherNBoots
“there’s still a risk that the more integrated a gay bar becomes, the higher the risk of homophobia.”
Hmm… yeah but wouldn’t homophobes who want to cause trouble just get in pretending to be gay? It’s not as if we had a barcode that was identifying people as straight or gay. What’s next? Pink triangle tattoos to make sure we stay segregated?
gaym50ish
This is ridiculous. What would you do? Have everybody take a quiz about their sexuality before they could enter? We’ve all taken straight friends to gay bars, and they have a good time. How will we ever end homophobia if we don’t allow straight people to become acquainted with our world.
Brian
Gay male culture has become the mirror image of straight male culture. You’re all the same. You want to be able to meet others for sex. Your social lives are based on the need for sex. Don’t deny it.
The reason why you established the gay scene was because you wanted to be able to meet other men for sex without feeling uncomfortable or hindered. You enjoyed creating a segregated scene to enable you to do this. You love segregation, separation…call it what you wish.
I have no trouble looking a gay-identifying man in the face and saying “you are no different from straight-identifying guys”.
viveutvivas
A “safe space” for straight women? You guys are forgetting that the straight women ruin it for lesbians (and gay men), just like straight men ruin it for gay men.
jheryn
@cabe: What I said has nothing to do with a “safe haven.”
It has to do with the fact that discrimination is wrong. We as a community are constantly trying to break discrimination against us, yet now some are basically saying “It’s not OK for you to do it, but it is OK for me.” That is almost the textbook definition of hypocrisy. How will we ever be taken seriously if we are doing the same things we are telling others they cannot do?
As far as your reasons
1. You can do it. It may not be comfortable or smart, but why would you WANT to put yourself in that situation when you have plenty of other choices?
2. And clearly you do not agree with those religious freedom acts. So you believe that if we discriminate against straight people going to gay bars we are any better than those that passed those acts? Double standards will never affect change it will always perpetuate the status quo.
3. I know plenty of bigoted straight people who would say the same thing about the theater, restaurants, concerts, etc. I have heard people say, “Can’t we ever get away from those people?” Referring to LGBT people. So should we stop going to their “straight havens” because they need a place to just socialize with other straight people. Of course not, we and they have just as much right to be in a public place as anyone.
I work for a large construction company as their finance officer. I hear those same things you do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to get away from that. When you have to do it by discriminating against anyone to do so, then you should find a better way to do it.
We have to be examples of what we want out of life. Live our lives free, open, honest, caring, and unbiased. The minute you start discriminating due to sexuality is the moment you give justification to the straight bigots who feel the same.
Gates
I find this question stupid. Anyone should be allowed to go where they want. If they act up, gay or straight, ask them to leave. Problem solved.
jdboston617
No, that’s ridiculous, especially for younger guys who often go/drag their bestie. However bachelorette parties should be banned from gay bars. Period!!!
Heywood Jablowme
@jdboston617: ” bachelorette parties should be banned from gay bars. Period!!!”
Yeah, that’s the one raw nerve with me too. Bachelorette parties are extremely disruptive so it seems “we” could kick those out.
Except maybe the management of some gay bars think they are good for business?
ryan_reynolds
the reason str8s come to the gay clubs cause they are more fun play better music bigger updated venues, . I don’t mind str8s being there just as long as they respect those of us who are gay, here in Maryland they have closed so many gay clubs most recently The Hippo biggest dance club north of Wash Dc now there are only small pubs ughhh living in BUMB FUCKED EGYPT ABERDUMP MARYLAND !!! THERES NOTHING FOR GAYS TO DO HERE, I GOTTA GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE… Baltimore is now the murder capitol of the east coast. so I see why businesses are moving out. But for other cities don’t let your gay clubs close. I don’t feel welcome in a str8 bars, its like if you walk in the door the music rips on te juke box,,everyone stares at u like you are from Mars, like they expects u to come in in fish nets and pink high heels. oh brother !!!. I feel uneasy at str8 bars and they play sports loud 24/7 and there is no dance area and I wouldn’t wanna dance in a str8 bar anyway, there is safety in numbers gay guys and gals. , cause if a red neck good ole boy gets drunk and starts shit I feel unsafe. I like my own gay bars. maybe in 50 yrs things will be ok but as long as hate is taught and narrow minded people I prefer to be around my own bitchy pretentious gays than unpredictable str8s. at least I know where I stand..
Arconcyyon
they 100% girls famele clientt´s bar music club music lgbtt is positivy future LESBEC Super LESBEC !Friendd´s the gayboyfriends is love by love night the boy bissex boy .
Arconcyyon
Radar the club the lgbtt the indentificuion the cleintt´s the famele gay male gay and heterossex is .
Curtispsf
@Arconcyyon: Would you kindly take the dick out of your mouth long enough to write an intelligible sentence?
BillSam
In the original article Lottie never says straight people should be banned from gay bars. The writer is simply talking about types of behavior among different kinds of straight people — those who are gay-friendly and cool, and those who are assholes — and I’ve met both kinds.
No one wants to “ban” straight people — and to my knowledge no gay bar does — but a door policy which deflects drunken straight couples who don’t even know where they are, or shrill, inebriated straight gals on a drunken bachelorette party binge, makes sense to me. “Private party,” says the doorman. In some cases, it depends on the type of gay bar. A piano bar is one thing; a cruisy leather-bear type bar is something else. Some bouncers let in straight people if they arrive with gay friends.
It’s all about atmosphere.
As for telling if someone is straight or not, if a man and woman walk in with their arms around each other you can assume they are a more or less “straight” couple, even if neither is really straight!
RadChad
Lol. Why are people desperately clinging to their victim roles? “Appropriation, priviliege, domestication”, boohoo.
Oh shit, straight people don’t hate you anymore and like to spend time and have a good time in gay bars with gay people as FELLOW citizens? Yeah, it makes you less of a special snowflake, but that’s a good thing.
I go to “regular” bars and clubs with my friends, they come to gay bars with me. We have a good time.
Out with the old, in with the new. Gay “culture” can slowly die for all I care, as tolerance grows into indifference about differences in sexuality.
grethomory
Straight people should not be banned from gay bars…a bad patron is a bad patron no matter if it’s a straight or gay bar. I have gone to many straight bars with straight friends and they in turn have gone to gay bars with me. I have never liked this segregation between people. These “straight” people are the same ones who have gone with me to Gay Pride parades and walked with me to support our agenda of diversity and inclusion.
ErikG
@jheryn:
I think what the OP was getting at was getting at was that not every gay person can freely go to any straight bar w/out fear of being harassed whereas any straight person can go to any gay bar and not fear being harassed. If you are in a small city there really aren’t “Many Options” as you say. Gay bars become community center of sorts and don’t need to be diluted by straight people taking over. In smaller cities, there ar no gay pride parades or gay community centers – this is all they got,
.
And its true – the reason you go to a gay bar or bring your straight friends to a gay bar is because of the appeal a gay bar has. If its 80% straight its no longer a gay bar and many of the gays move on.
Lastly -the two types of straight people I could do without are the bachelorette party girls, storming in and taking over the bar. Usually, they don’t show up w/ a gay friend -they just go for the “novelty” factor and are not allies
The other type is the creepy guy who guys strictly to pickup girls. Again, he is not there with gay friends and is not an ally of the community
While legally you can’t discriminate, you can limit “girl nigh out ” parties to 4 girls at a time – many bars do this or if it is a gay male strip club make the girls have a male escort (girls at a gay able strip bar are a total boner killer/)
kenton
@grethomory: @RadChad:
Truth factor is that there are many gay people who have been harrassed by being in traditionally straight bars. Straight people never have to face that in ANY gay bar -anywhere There is a double standard whether you like it or not. Go to W Hollywood. Almost all of the “gay bars” there are 80% straight. The community has no balls in trying to take over what we have worked so hard to achieve.
If you don’t think gay bars are important, don’t go to them. But for people that hold them to be important, cant we keep them at least 60% gay? Otherwise go meet your BFFs at the Olive Garden down the street and be down w/ it.
deppa
@RadChad:
Bachelorette party girls and the “girls night out” chicks arent there because they are allies of the gay community. They are there cuz it’s a novelty or a comedic lark. Same w/ the straight dudes hanging around getting ready to hit on a straight girl.
Gays in small cities need gay bars. They have no gay community centers or pride events and this is the first chance for young gay people to be in a room w/ a lot of other gay people. Instead, they find mostly shrieking straight girls. Disappointing and another example of gentrification – straight majority taking steamrolling over the gay minorities space.