Having starred in 1975’s original The Rocky Horror Picture Show, you might say Susan Sarandon is qualified to speak about the production — and its gender-bending roles. But not being a gay lady, does she get to throw mud at criticism of Glee‘s use of the word “tranny”? She sure thinks so, which has her attacking GLAAD response as a militant overreaction.
The episode, which bizarrely pulled the word “transvestite” from the script but had no problem with the word “tranny” (and equally bizarrely stripped the show of its cross-dressing-ness), drew the expected table pounding from GLAAD for using “the defamatory word ‘tra**y.'”
Nonsense, says Sarandon. “What should they have said?” she tells the NYDN. GLAAD is “getting like PETA — way out of control.”
Ooh, snap! There’s nothing worse than being compared to PETA: reactionary and over-saturated to the point of useless.
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Responds GLAAD’s flack Richard Ferraro: “The word ‘tra—y’ has become an easy punch line in popular culture and many still don’t realize that using the term is hurtful, dehumanizing and associated with violence.”
Suffice to say, Ms. Sarandon won’t be accepting a GLAAD Award anytime soon?
Jack E. Jett
I have said it a thousand times before and I will continue to say it in the future.
If you read the facts and the figures.
GLAAD and HRC are two of the most ego maniacal driven groups on the planet.
The can only attack drivel because they are too busy planning their OWN SELF PROMOTION.
Stop giving money to these FUCKED UP organizations.
george
Agreed, Susan.
Nick
Damn it, Janet.
John Brown
I just read the glaad post on glee. Seemed pretty measured to me. It just said that people thought it was odd that “transsexual” would be censor but the word “trannie”, which many transgendered people consider as bad a the word f*g, was included. Seems like if they are going to look after how the media talks about gay and lesbian people they should look after transgender people also.
I doubt Susan Sarandon read the piece.
JusticeontheRocks
She certainly had a right to complain about the bastardization and emasculation of a pop culture classic. A really messed up show, except when that Overstreet guy was on camera shirtless.
Fitz
She is right, and the folks at GLAAD need an emergency dose of Midol before they undermine the real work that they are supposed to be doing. They are too important to let themselves turn into a punchline.
And PS: my favorite bar for watching a drag show is the Tranny Shack.
Cam
This is the first time I think I’ve heard anybody complaining that GLAAD was doing TOO much. LOL
Craig
Susan has always been such a huge supporter, and she is exactly right. Spend a little more time working on the Glenn Beck’s of the World GLAAD or planning your Hollywood fundraisers.
Ed
“The word ‘tra—y’ …”
Tray? It also makes me laugh when people think that somehow removing letters from a word will somehow change the offensiveness. This is true especially when printed news media will report on hate crimes, attacks, etc but alter the actual venomous words used against the victim (e.g fa**ot, ni**er). How can people fight the use these words as offensive tools when the media assumes that we are not adult enough to read them?
soakman
If you can’t take a Rocky Horror episode lightly….geeeeesh.
I don’t even know if Frankenfurter is a transexual or a transvestite. He’s an alien. And the production is all about owning ‘otherness.’
Henry
The gays can’t even get some simple legislation passed, and now they want to take on defending the poor trannies. From the looks of some of them, I think they are capable of defending themselves.
Mike in Asheville
I’m Saradon on this one. This sure seems like GLAAD is making “Much Ado about Nothing.”
Certainly there is not a singular voice covering the opinions of all transexulas. Among the voices, many embrace the term tranny as self-descriptive, and not as a “tra**y” slur: as is San Francisco’s famous Trannyshack club, Tranny Fest (the transgender film festival), San Francisco Tranny, and zillions more one can find simply by Googling “tranny”.
In contrast, try Googling “Fag*ot Club” or “Ni**er Club” and you don’t find any actual clubs, just homophobic and racist attacks.
Indeed, gays and blacks use, respectively “fa*” and “nig*er” among themselves all the time while an outsiders use of those terms is offensive. In the acceptable cases of using those terms, though, the comments are made to and among their respective groups and do not include outsiders. With “tranny” however, many transexuals use the term tranny with outsiders. They themselves invite and encourage the use of the term tranny as a non-derogatory term.
GLAAD would make better use of their efforts fighting for trannies’ rights instead of arguing about the term tranny.
Jimmy Fury
I think some critical thinking needs to come into play. Be offended when “tranny” is used *against* transgendered people. By all means. If it’s used in hate, be pissed about it.
But when it’s not being used that way… get the fuck over it. Nobody is talking about you.
It’s like the word fag. Be offended when someone calls you a fag. Don’t be offended when someone calls a cigarette a fag.
I mean christ, if we stopped using every single word that someone somewhere *might* be offended by we wouldn’t have any words left.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
Thank you Susan, GLADD has become the boy who cried wolf getting their panties all bunched up real tight like grabbing at every opportunity to release a press release. Instead of picking their battles and making progress by sheding light on actual instances of harm being done to the Gays they are firing blindly including directing their hissy fits against those who actually support Gays and our causes. They have recently castigated MTV and the producers of Glee. Both of which can in no way be classified as anti-Gay. Glee’s episode tonight actually focuses on the pretty damm revelant issue of Gay kids getting bullied. Am pretty confident they are not going to be taking sides with the bullies. So instead of targeting those who actions actually cause harm to the Gay community , GLADD is targeting supporters of the community.
GLADD needs to learn that a circular firing squad kinda sorta defeats the purpose…….
kevinVancouver
@Jimmy Fury:
AMEN!!!!
Dino
Bear with me while I play devil’s advocate: many trans people (especially women) find the word “tranny” offensive; GLAAD is standing up for them, and that’s awesome. If cissexual people think that’s too politically correct, get over it! How hard is it to say something besides “tranny?” Is that really going to ruin your day, Dr. Laura? I mean, Susan Sarandon?
Paschal
@Mike in Asheville: There are gay people who ignorantly use the words which are gay slurs. Thta doesn;t mean it’s okay to start using them.
Dino
@Jimmy Fury: Okay, let’s apply your critical thinking to the line in Glee:
“[My parents are] just not cool with me dressing up like a tranny.”
“[My parents are] just not cool with me dressing up like a faggot.”
“[My parents are] just not cool with me dressing up like a nigger.”
You’re right, how could anyone be offended by those lines? “Tranny,” “faggot,” and “nigger” are not be used *hatefully*
Dino
@Mike in Asheville: What’s to argue about? A lot of people are offended by the word, and GLAAD stood up for them. Why is GLAAD catching shit for that? What am I missing? Seriously, help me out, I *don’t* get it.
sasha
Let the celebrity ass kissing begin, funny how if 50 Cent had said this everyone would be screaming rape but since it’s a fucking ACTRESS everyone jumps right on board. You are boring, Susan.
Charlie
so… as someone who was in a Rocky Horror cast… the word “tranny” is used with great respect. The “trannies” of the RHPS casts are quite loved and elevated. In San Francisco the biggest and best running drag show in town is Trannyshack. Straight and gay people love going there. Glee is not usually taking pot shots at the mo’s, they aren’t the enemy.
gina
It never ceases to amaze me how invested gay men are in controlling use of the term “tranny.” How many dozens of blogs have there been in the past few weeks by gay men with their panties in a knot because mean old GLAAD actually said, guess what, ‘there are trans people who ARE offended by this term, that is a reality, it’s not a joke to those people and those are the people who are ridiculed with the term tranny and you don’t get to take a vote on it, sweetheart.’ *Boo hoo, boo hoo… tears on your pink IZOD shirt*
1) Transvestite was used in the episode, it was transsexual which was removed, get your facts right;
2) The term ‘tranny’ has nothing to do with the Rocky Horror, nor does it appear in the show. It was thrown in by GLEE for laugh appeal, as they did with ‘shemale’ a few months ago.
3) Since when does Susan Saradon get to tell trans women what is or isn’t offensive to them? Tell the rich, old bag to mind her own business and stop kissing ass with gay men in media just to try and seem hip.
gina
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS:
For someone who has a hissy fit about GLAAD as much as you do, you’d think you’d at least learn how to spell their name.
Mike in Asheville
@Dino:
GLAAD is acting as though they have the final word representing all transexuals. My point is simple: many transexuals use the word tranny about themselves, and feel, rightly, that they are not besmirching themselves or their community.
It is those transexuals who are offended by the use of tranny who attribute to that term that being a transexual is somehow offensive. To me, there is NOTHING wrong with being transexual; it is a matter of self identity that is as legitimate and valid as everyone’s right of self-identity.
With 6+ billion people on this planet, certainly there are many many who have nontraditional sexual identity. That does not make them wrong or freaks or anything other than being human. Hopefully the day will soon come when tranny simply means transexual.
There are much bigger issues for GLAAD, perhaps teen suicide?
gina
@Mike in Asheville:
FYI,
Trannyshack is run by a bunch of gay men. They do not live as women and they aren’t even especially gender variant… they are gay men who dress up in goofy women’s attire and pretend to have funny little names for a laugh. After the show, they remove their makeup and costumes and go back to living as gay men. Some people are trying to claim they are somehow members of the trans community… I would suggest they’re gay men.
There are trans women involved in drag. They get to call themselves whatever they wish to be called, but they don’t get to decide for all other trans women what’s not offensive.
Try Googling “tranny” and you’ll see hundreds of porn links which feature young trans girls who have been kicked out of their communities and are pretty much doing sexwork to stay alive. Many of them are murdered and attacked for being who they are and they have the highest seropositivity rates in the LGBTQ community. Sorry, but you don’t get to take a big vote that it’s okay to say “tranny” because it’s not even about you.
Miss Understood
I have been doing drag for 20 years and have know and worked with at least 1000 transgender women. Until Christian Siriano I only heard the word tranny used by transgender people and their friends. It does not have a history as a derogatory term. Just because a handful of outspoken people don’t like it there is no reason to get all revisionist.
Obviously an abusive person can say it in a demeaning way, but that would be true of almost any word you want to use. People need to pay more attention to the intention of attackers and abusers instead of being so randomly nitpicky about uttering of words. If Margaret Cho wants to say Fag in her act that’s fine with me.
Dou Lobbs
@Ed: I agree. I hate it when people say the “(pick a letter)-word” as if that somehow removes whatever it is that is supposed to be offensive about the word.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@gina: I missed an couple ‘o “A”s but if so very much rubbed sand in your vagina that you actually had to make a post about it, you need to get “A” life…….(see I didn’t miss that one! :p)
gina
@Miss Understood: In the GLEE episode, was ‘tranny’ said by a trans person, written by a trans person, directed by a trans person? Yes, context is important… the context of GLEE was a mass media, money making one which was in zero way connected to the trans community and done by a director/producer who has actually had a very poor track record with portraying trans people in a highly objectified way.
Again, you do not get to vote what is or isn’t offensive, and I don’t care how many transgender women you’ve known or how many drag shows you’ve done. You aren’t aware it’s offensive because you’re not attuned to the situations where it is used offensively. Why, because you’re a gay man (and yes, you certainly do get to decide for yourself if ‘fag’ is offensive and under which circumstances).
chip_in_ga
@Miss Understood: Your point of view is perhaps the more valid of those posted on here.
It’s not the word, it’s how it is said, and in what context.
Agreed GLADD is taking themselves way to seriously. They have a right to speak their opinion, but, they do not have the right to assume they speak for me, or “all” gay people.
Lighten up!
Devon
I’m with Janet.
chip_in_ga
@gina: Excuse me “b___h”! We “all” get a vote, who gave you the right to pass them out?
Brianna J.
Trans people find tranny offensive? Well, I find LGBT offensive. Lesbian, gay and bisexual people are all defined by one thing: their attraction to their own sex. Period. There may be all sorts of other differences among these 3 groups and within each of these groups, but there is a single unifying logic to calling them a “community”.
By contrast, trans people can have any sexual orientation and the vast majority of them are straight. The reason these folks are lumped in with us is because 15 years ago, a bunch of white, urban queer activists thought it would be really exciting and transgressive to draft gay people into a war on gender and to bully us into changing our movement from a gay movement to an “everyone and everything that isn’t conventional” movement. This lesbian of color says fuck them and fuck LGBT. I’ll make it a point to use tranny as often as possible until trannies stop using LGBT.
Red Meat
Tranny is not an offensive word because I know many and that is the word they use. What stupid ass bitch tranny started that shit.
Kieran
GLAAD has proven itself to be totally impotent in securing equal rights for Gay-Americans in employment, in marriage, in the military, etc. (under a liberal Democratic President and Democrat controlled Congress)……but dammit, they’re gonna make damn sure that ‘Glee’ stops using the word “tranny”.
Kev C
First they came for the N* word, and we did nothing.
Then they came for the F* word, and we did nothing.
Then they came for Tranny, and it was too late. Enuf is enuf, we must fight for our right to insult people who are different than us!
Marcia
@Kieran: I’m a graduate student who has done work in the movement. GLAAD’s mission is about how words and images in the media matter. They were started to try to stop gays from being bashed in the media and in hollywood (during the aids epidemic.) They aren’t tasked with fixing the military (that’s SLDN, Lambda Legal Defense, HRC). Their role in that issue and in marriage is taking the media to task for how they portray the issues and making sure we are treated fairly. Same with employment (legislative issues are other groups.) I think you should do a little research before taking such a strong opinion. (“my problem with the hospital is that they didn’t fix my car’s transmission!”) You might not like that they address things like a transgender woman being called an “it” on jersey shore, but that’s what they are around to do…to try to get people to treat us decently in the media.
missanthrope
@Mike in Ashville:
“In the acceptable cases of using those terms, though, the comments are made to and among their respective groups and do not include outsiders. With “tranny” however, many transexuals use the term tranny with outsiders. They themselves invite and encourage the use of the term tranny as a non-derogatory term.”
I assume you’re transsexual yourself?
If you’re not, I don’t know why you’re assuming you know what trans people think or is acceptable to them. The “tranny” is slur to me.
Joann Prinzivalli
@gina: Rock on! You said it, sister! I find it mildly saddening when people outside the target group weigh in on how members of the target group are being over sensitive, etc.
When we have the same rights and equality under the law as everyone else, maybe we can lighten up. Until then, my dear friend Susan is forgiven for her part in the, um, travesty of RHPS.
I have friends who are culties of midnight showings of RHPS. I’ve seen it once, and would honestly rather see “Ticked Off Trannies With Knives” or even “Silence of the Lambs.”
The Glee episode? Glee would have done well without invoking Rocky Horror at all. But then there is that cult following to contend with. My concern is about which terms got edited out. If they can use “tranny,” why not go ahead and have the football players use “faggot.” It’s only to show the character of the characters, right? No one would mean any harm. Duh. Ig one is bad, they’e both inappropriate.
skzip888
Yes, the word “Tranny” is used far too casually (see: “Are You Smarter Than A Tranny Hooker” and “Tranny 911”) and it’s rarely depicted as being over the line. Glee was no exception. The songs were censored far more than the actual episode. I assumed this was because whichever PTV-nag they got supervising everyone in the recording studio couldn’t manage to come down to the set or read the script. Also, they may have feared any actual Rocky Horror material would draw far more panic than your average episode of Family Guy.
You can mock and belittle the transgendered, but you can’t refer to them as human beings; that Murdoch’s America.
But, generally speaking, GLAAD is insanely uptight, and tends to rob things of their context. I still love Susan Sarandon.
Rob Moore
How can one do a Rocky Horror episode and take out all the really good stuff? It was a soulless, crappy episode anyway. This season of Glee has not measured up to expectations, so far.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
Oh good! Another het telling us what to think, say, and feel. Thank god! Because we all know no one knows more about the LGBTQ community than a pompous, Hollywood dwelling straight woman.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
In the NYDN the silly heffer said this:
adding that she knew plenty of people who proudly called themselves “trannies.”
Clearly she doesn’t seem to understand that transgendered people were calling themselves trannies. Would she have reacted the same if a character said they didn’t want to dress as a nigger? Defending that use because she knows black people who call themselves niggers?
With friends like her…
chip_in_ga
@Mr. Enemabag Jones: Empty you bag Mr. Jones….
We need all the advocates we can get. All those Hollywood dwelling straight women are the ones we need to help us gain our equality.
She is acting truthfully as a “friend” of our community.
Her words carry alot more stength than those of a bitter old queen. (Or as a gay man, am I not allowed to use those terms?)
Like Susan, I call me like I see em!
chip_in_ga
Empty you bag Mr. Jones….
We need all the advocates we can get. All those Hollywood dwelling straight women are the ones we need to help us gain our equality.
She is acting truthfully as a “friend” of our community
Her words carry alot more stength than those of a bitter old queen. (Or as a gay man, am I not allowed to use that term?)
Like Susan, I call em like I see em!
Joelle
I love how cisgender gays and lesbians (most of whom are transphobic) get to decide whether “tranny” is an epithet or not. It is a word of absolute hate, one which I and many other trans women have been demeaned, degraded and debased by. It is time to go the way of all the other hate epithets and stop being used once and for all. SHAME on transphobic bigot Susan Sarandon for defending the use of this rabidly hateful term. I guess people who stopped being culturally relevant 20 years ago have to latch on to some controversy to get their fame-starved names out there. If she is the best “ally” we can hope for, y’all can keep her Libberaaal wich white over-privileged ass.
Kev C
Excuse me, but Susan Sarandon is accusing GLAAD of exactly what she is guilty of herself. Code Pink supporter? ORLY? I can’t blame GLAAD for doing their job.
hephaestion
Why is Queerty even nit-picking a comment by Susan Sarandon? Sarandon is a strong friend of our community and her support can not be doubted. This nit-picking is a silly waste of time. We need to be worrying about the real words of hate coming out of the mouths of the Republicans who are now taking over our Congress. Susan Sarandon will always take a stand for justice and equality for us all; these asshole wacko Republicans will NOT, and they will screw us in every way they can for the next 2 years.
chip_in_ga
@Joelle: Gee…I guess your much more culturally relevant, in your own little segment of “our” world, than the majority of the population. Somehow I think that makes your relevance, irrelevant. Tranny is only a word of hate when used to be one. If that makes me “transphobic” or even worse a “transphobic biggot” in your minds eye, then so be it. I associate the word “biggot” with intolerance and hate, as far as I can tell your more biggoted than either Ms. Sarandon or myself.
chip_in_ga
@hephaestion: Amen! Would be interesting to find out, how many of those nit pickers on here, actually took the time to go vote.
gina
Didn’t you know, she’s an actress and celebrity, that means she can say any old shit and we’re supposed to take it seriously. I’m sure she had many gay hairdressers and makeup people and that’s just like being one of the family and family members get to say whatever the f*ck they want about other family members.
And lonely gay men adore kissing celebrity ass at all costs… it makes them feel loved and accepted. Give a ghey a chance to be a lap dog of a celeb and they’re happy.
Susan has hung around a few drag queens, gone to Lucky Chengs a couple of times and maybe met Amanda Lepore and is suddenly an expert on trans women and what they find offensive or not. She’s an incredible advocate, was once in a movie that some of you liked and Chip, she says you can fly up from Georgia and lick her asshole clean on Wednesday of next week, just put a bag over your head when you come over.
chip_in_ga
Heterosexual is not a hate term, but “het” as used above certainly is.
I am sorry that you feel my looks are so offensive that I would require a bag over my head. (My that was a mature comment that did a good deal for your argument.)
I enjoy keeping the company of positive minded people of all segments of society. Ms. Sarandon would certainly be one of those; and sorry Gina, someone that feels it necessary to debase herself to the level you have, would not be one of those I would care to spend time with.
A. Non
I agree with SS 100%, I hate how these idiots are acting over the word tranny, it’s short for TRANSVESTITE, ya bunch of fags!
Transvesticism is a fetish, not a sexual preference (not that I think it is a preference or a choice to be gay) and doesn’t fall under GLAAD’s umbrella, nor should transgendered issues as transgendered people aren’t necessarily gay, lesbian nor bisexual. I’m happy for them and us (queerty, or the gay community as a whole) to assist the TG community if required, but remember it’s our party 😛
GLAAD, if you want something to do, go complain about the sale of meaty faggots in the shops, complain about the guys smoking fags in the street, complain about the young people going out on a bender every night…catch my drift?
Red Meat
Following Jones logic, GLAAD should go after the word gay and lesbian because people say “that’s gay,” “you’re such a lesbian,” and “you’re so gay.” Then, we will live in a world where you are straight, homosexual or a confused cross-dresser.
Sam
@Enemabag @Joell @Gina: Perhaps you are too young to remember, but back when our community was reeling from AIDS, Susan Sarandon was the first and loudest celebrity to speak out for us. She marched in the first protest in NYC, while it was still called “gay cancer.” When ACT-UP asked 400 celebrities to wear “SILENCE = DEATH” buttons to the Oscars, it was just her and openly gay Bruce Davison who did so. She and Tim Robbins were arrested protesting the detention of HIV positive refugees in Guantanamo a few years later, and then used their appearance at the Oscars to give a speech about it, getting themselves banned from presenting. Along the way, she helped raise millions for HIV/AIDS organizations, mostly for underfunded orgs serving queer communities of color.
She may have been a bit tone deaf on this one, but she has certainly done enough for our community not to deserve petty comments from bitchy little shits like the three of you.
TwlightoftheDogs
Without talking about the greater issue, on the show, Glee, the use of the term was in the context of someone saying his parents would never let him play a Tranny.
Question: Would any you find it offensive or homophobic to see an actor say they could never play gay?
Now, you don’t need to answer that here. I don’t hardly expect honest self evaluation after the entrenched positions already taken. I am just saying that before you make blanket statements it really is important to think about context.
I remembered thinking at the time- wow, if they had said that about being gay, I would be pissed. I just thought they decided they could say that because no one said to them that it was offensive.
If this were a deeper show, I might even understand it. But its a show based on fantasy, so I don’t fully get the point of including such an obvious transphobic moment.
As for Ms. Sarandon. I love her work. I am sure overall we agree on a lot of things. I just disagree with her here as to the use of the words in the show.
TwlightoftheDogs
@Sam: Yeah, overall she’s a great activist not just on gay rights but also poverty issues as far as I remember. So, I am guessing she may not have thought about the ways in which the show used the language to imply through the Asian kid that there was something icky about being trans.
chip_in_ga
@Sam: Thank You! I really did not know there were a number of Transexuals out there, that were so deeply offended by the term, and I am a gay male that has been an activist in the gay community in many ways for over 45 years.
I am sure Ms. Sarandon did not know either.
The sad reality is that a large majority of “caring” parents would not let their child play a “tranny”, “trannie”, “transexual”, “transvestite”, “female impersonator”, “drag queen” or “gay” person. The fact that the show brought attention to that is what matters, not the use of a term.
GLAAD would have had a field day with Archie Bunker and the lines in All In The Family. But, by displaying ignorance, and just how ugly it is; that show was a major contributor to overcoming many stereotypes.
Miss Sarandon has more than earned the right to voice her opinion, and it should be one that is deeply valued.
There are more important battles to be fought. Choose your battles wisely, and don’t alienate your allies.
Syl
Susan should cram it. She’s not trans, she’s not queer, she’s not the mother or sibling of someone who is, so she has not right to comment on the matter. The word is derrogatory, its use in context was negative, and it wasn’t used by a transgendered person. The show’s supposed LGBT friendliness makes it even more egregious.
Fausto Fernos
@gina: Thankfully nobody gets to decide which words get banned and which ones don’t either. I like the word tranny. All my trans friends like the word tranny. All the trans/tranny folks I admire use and enjoy the word tranny.
I’m saddened by the whole uproar over the word “tranny,” a beautiful word whose history according to trans writer Kate Bornstein comes as an inclusive word to bring all types of trans people together. It comes from Australia. United we stand, divided we fall.
Trans, tranny, trantastic, trannilicious, etc. are words that have been used by many people to describe themselves in a fun, empowering way.
Don’t rain on their parade or take it away from everyone just because someone decided to use it in an ugly way. It’s safe to say the vast majority of people use tranny in a good, fun, empowering way.
jason
Sarandon isn’t a man. For starters, she cannot even begin to experience the discrimination that male homosexuals and male bisexuals have faced through the years. She can read about it but she cannot experience it. Keep in mind that laws against homosexuality were directed at male homosexuality, not female homosexuality.
As for transvestism, it’s a form of performance art or fetish, not homosexuality. However, the hatred directed at transvestites is very similar to that directed against homosexuals, particularly male homosexuals. It’s based on a perceived challenge to masculinity and patriarchal notions.
Is GLAAD out of control? I don’t think so. If anything, GLAAD is very unwilling to take on popular culture, especially the music industry. Is it possible that Sarandon is peeved that GLAAD attacked fellow thespian Vince Vaughn’s movie The Dilemma on the basis that it included an anti-gay slur?????
Brian Miller
Well, it’s good to see a straight power-broker talking down her nose to LGBT Americans. She has a future as an Obama cabinet official, or perhaps even as a Democrat running for office!
adam
I’ve thought this for quite awhile about GLAAD.
chip_in_ga
@Fausto Fernos: Well put! YOU are obviously a well adjusted individual who is at peace with their sexuality. People like you are the ones who will change society’s views. Juat so tired to all the whining, poor me attitudes! You and your friends are people I would enjoy hanging with.
BubbasBack
“Glee” sucks, and Ryan Murphy is a tranny!
Pass the beer. Burp.
gina
@Fausto Fernos:
Fausto, I’m glad you have trans friends. I have gay friends but that doesn’t mean I, therefore, attempt to speak for all gay people.
Firstly, Kate Bornstein’s writing about the “tranny” is ahistorical and completely motivated about hir own desires towards it. Zie admits hir ‘facts’ about the origin of the word were from a single gay man from Australia who did drag who told hir that story… but it’s incorrect. The word was used in the US way before Australia and it was used in “exploitation publications” about trans people (and at the time, transvestite and transsexual were often smeared together).
I appreciate focusing on the positive aspects of the word’s usage. I’ve never said trans people or people who perform drag should be ‘banned’ from using it if (and especially transgender women involved in drag) they so desire. If it means something to them… fine. Just don’t use it in a global way, don’t apply it to groups of transgender people who may be offended by it (because that’s disrespecting them, no matter what your intent it) and don’t mainstream it. GLEE is commercially mainstreaming it. They specifically used it for a ‘laugh’ as they did ‘shemale’ a few months ago. I don’t mind a transgender woman referring to herself as a ‘tranny’ but I do mind suburban teenagers using tranny as a synonym for ugly or freakish. That’s the largest audience for GLEE.
When you talk about “we” who do you mean? The majority of people doing drag (not all) take off their silly clothes, wigs and makeup and go home to their lives as gay men (maybe femme gay men unliked by society, but men nonetheless). They have compartmentalized their ‘trans’ experience. Trans women living in this world can’t. When trans women are murdered there are endless stories and comments about “trannies.” When there are unattractive photos of non-trans women or any woman who has a slightly ‘masculine’ looking feature, we get gay media people (and non-gay) laughing at them for looking like trannies. Har har. When you Google “tranny” and look through the first 100 pages, you’ll see hundreds of porn sites featuring young trans women who are forced into porn because of marginalization and poverty (especially in Thailand/Brazil, Philippines, Latin America, but also in the US). Many get sexually assaulted and some get murdered. And what word is used to sell their bodies: Tranny (and Shemale). Because you don’t live in my world, you don’t understand how tranny is used daily used as a synonym for “man in a dress” but it is. And gay men who do drag (or female impersonation) don’t really care so much because 1) that’s who they are; and 2) because they have a totally separate life apart from being ‘trannies’ and they can be situationally transgressive.
And I feel frustrated because men like you who I thought understood what it’s like to be disrespected are now telling women like me that we have no rights in terms of what we want to be called and don’t want to be called.
I lived in the Castro during the 1970s, and if you’d told a gay men or woman in that era how words are just words, and they can’t oppress you unless you let them, and we’re ‘reclaiming’ words and all that other Hallmark card bs, they’d had bitten your face off and called you an ‘Uncle Tom’ or ‘House Faggot’.
gina
@Sam:
Sam, this little bitchy shit is a trans woman (who, btw, also marched in the 1970s with Harvey Milk and other gay activists) and I see no connection between her work for gay men or AIDs and getting to dictate to women in the trans community what we should or shouldn’t be okay being called. Bad example.
gina
@TwlightoftheDogs:
I think Susan Sarandon, like a lot of allies, has gone to drag shows, met a few trans people (the trans women who pretty much live in the gay community) and thought to herself, “I love the trannies, they’re so brave, they’re being themselves, yadda, yadda.” And she heard some of those people use “tranny” and her gay friends use “tranny” and she really has no idea what the complexities of the word are within the trans community because SHE’S AN OUTSIDER. Perhaps a sympathetic outsider, but not living in the life.
I’ve seen many well-meaning non-trans people who thought they were being gay/trans positive by using tranny… like they’re part of the club and they get it. And then they had a hang dog look on their face when some trans women told them to never call them that again. Ouch, but they DON’T get it. They don’t live their lives under the very specific transphobic oppression we do (and neither do gay men or gay male drag queens) oppression which repeatedly attacks our very womanhood.
Yes, that’s right, it is mostly us bitchy transsexual women (including a lot of young ones too… it’s not just generational) who have serious issues with “tranny”… forgive us for our delicate sensitivities Susan, but we’ve gone through a LOT of shit in our lives just to get to where we are today and we’re getting tired of having other people queer or straight telling us who we are and pretend they get to interpret our lives just because they might have crossed our paths.
steven TR
Of course it is derogatory, if Ms. Sarandon cant grasp that it is not up to her to say what should or should not hurt someone. Then, she will have no problem hearing what a lot of people call actors: WHORES. Wow, she’s right it is fun to be un-p.c. I wonder which whore will win best actress this year at the golden globes….pretty cool.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
@gina:
I see no connection between her work for gay men or AIDs and getting to dictate to women in the trans community what we should or shouldn’t be okay being called.
+1
I’m a gay man, so I don’t know what it’s like to be transgendred. I do however know that a couple of trans friends don’t like the word tranny, while one other has no issue with it. I don’t use the word around any of them. I’d rather ere on the side of caution, than risk hurting friends I care about.
What the people defending Susan Saradon don’t want to understand is precisely what GLADD pointed out–tranny has become a punch line, much the same way faggot and dyke were; and gay has become.
GLADD is doing what it’s original mandate stipulated–standing up for those who would be ignored by the ignorant within America’s media.
And lastly, fuck Susan Saradon. That terrorist sympathizing sack of shit.
chip_in_ga
@Mr. Enemabag Jones: You had a great post going. You provided a rational explanation of why the work “tranny” should not be used. But you blew all your credibility with that last sentence. Hate and venom will only begat more hate and venom That is the bullying shit, that causes people to take their own lives. SHAME ON YOU! Haven’t the events of the last few months, and all the people speaking out about bullying, and the effect it has on others affected you at all? Ms. Sarnadon and GLEE may have used the term out of ignorance, but they are not ignorant, nor did they advocate the use of the term to berate another human. The same cannot be said of yourself. Get the shit out of your own back yard, before you start criticizing others.
rayray
How many people call someone a tranny and mean it in a loving way? GLAAD is not out of control, what an inane thing to say when kids are taking their lives over this kind of thing.
If the word tranny was used in a rap song, people would be shouting homophobia from the rooftops.
Besides, didnt MTV just reedit an episode of jersey shore for calling someone a tranny?
ALSO, it is the kind of thing where maybe it is okay among transvestites to call each other that, but that doesnt give everyone the right to. Sort of like you can put down your parents but no one else can?
chip_in_ga
OK my last comment on this (probably). When my straight friends talk about coming to see me, I would hope they would say “I am going over to see my Gay friend Ken.” I am not offended, why should I be? They are a friend and they are using the term to designate the specific friends they are going to see. I would not expect them to say my homosexual friend.
So why is it wrong for me to say I’m going to see my tranny friend Miss Lauren? She is a dear friend, and beleive me the term is being used with love.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
@chip_in_ga:
Chip, there’s only one person here who thinks your opinion matters.
Transsexual women are NOT property of gay men
ATTENTION TO THE FEW GAY MEN ON THIS THREAD WHO HAVE ENTITLEMENT ISSUES AND INSENSITIVE VIEWS: Before you all get excited and attack GLAAD for defending the most vulnerable & misunderstood portion of the LGBT community, please actually read GLAAD’s missions statement. Nowhere in that statement does it say they only defend privileged white gay men. They also defend women, and thats includes transsexual and transg…ender women. Please, our medical conditions and birth challenges should not be the source for campy, dehumanizing, hurtful and dismissive slurs that misgender and alienate us.
Mike
I’m offended by the lack of spell check and grammar in these comments. Either learn to spell or I’m going to get GLAAD on you.
We as a community need to pick and choose our battles. Plain and simple.
NavyMike
Use of the slang word “tranny” is derogatory? That would come as a shock to my transgendered friends who use that word as much as they do the slang “fag”, indeed.
SYL writes: “She’s not trans, she’s not queer, she’s not the mother or sibling of someone who is, so she has not right to comment on the matter.”
@SYL: Sarandon’s in the entertainment business, so chances are she’s in good company when it comes to working with gay men. She has supported gay issues, but certainly is not militant about it as those who decide what words should be censored (that’s right, censored) or not. She has every right to voice her opinion just as much as we are, period. By the way, isn’t “queer” as equally offensive to others?
CJ Maciejeski
@Charlie: you do realize that drag queens and transsexuals are two different things, right?
CJ Maciejeski
@chip_in_ga: “trans” is an equally short-n-sweet umbrella term that doesn’t have a 30+ year history with sexual exploitation, bigoted ignorance, and sex work. I’m a transsexual, and as a member of the ingroup, I am saying right now, that it offends me. the problem here is that you all seem to know a whole bunch of transwomen that bandy about a term that i’m most familiar with from the lips of rednecks, objectifying men who also think “shemale” is a-okay to just toss on out there, when they are cruising craigslist, and ignorant gay men who think that knowing a couple gender-variant individuals somehow entitles them to tell ME not to get my panties in a knot. The fact of that matter is that MY viscera tightens when i hear the word because it’s the word that gets shouted right before the beatings. Not transsexual. Not transvestite. Not trans. Fucking tranny.
So, when it’s okay for a straight guy to say you aren’t allowed to get upset when the joke ends with “faggot,” it’ll be okay for you and Mz. Sarandon to tell me to calm down, when it’s the slur that gets used rather than any of a half dozen less offensive terms. ESPECIALLY considering the producers of the show apparently found the (correct, medical) term “transsexual” too iffy for the consumption of their audience.
For the record, i like susan sarandon and her work as an actress. I feel, however, that she is exhibiting simple ignorance. I don’t think she’s hateful, nor do i believe that you are hateful in your ignorance of the situation. You just have no reference point, as a cisgendered individual. But here I am, transwoman, telling you it hurts me to hear that word. Here’s a chance to prove that ignorance isn’t a permanent condition, but merely a lack of information.
ewe
Unless Susan Sarandon is a transgendered person herself, i don’t give a crap what she has to say on this issue. Let’s be clear. She is not L. She is not G. She is not B. She is not T. She is not Q. But she sticks her judgemental nose into this attempting to be dismissive against those that take offense? Shut it. Her career obvioulsy is at a standstill.
chip_in_ga
@ewe: Using the same logic; unless you are straight, highly awarded successful public figure that has been a life long supporter of the Gay community, and fought selflessly for it’s acceptance, we don’t give a crap what your opinion is on this issue.
I brought this issue up yesterday afternoon at a local gay club. There were 8 people at the bar, 2 of them “trannys”. ALL of them felt that Ms. Sarandon’s comments were right on the money, that we sometimes get way to nit picky, that Glee’s portrayal was more beneficial than harmful, and that there are more impportant battles to be fought. It is not the word, but the context in which it is used.
Being a transexual must be a very difficult thing, even more so than being homosexual. It is my feeling that those who have adjusted well and are comfortable with their sexuality are not as sensitive to terminology. I’m gay, I’m a fag, I’m a queer; YUP! I’m not ashamed of it, I’m proud of who I am and try to upgrade the value of those terms on a daily basis.
Bayne MacGregor
Glee and most of the GLBTI community need to wake up and check the demographics. Because while we only have rough estimates on some parts of GLBTI we know that I and probably T are way biggert than G or L.
Some stats: Australian numbers of self-identified Gays and Lesbians according to studies = 2.7%
Number of Intersex people born going by Dr Peter Koopman = 4%
Transsexuals according to Lynne Conway = 1/500
Transgender according to APA (though they forget FtM exists) = 2%-3%
According to UK = 6%
According to the Thai school which had to put in a transgender toilet = 10%-20%
Numbers of Same Sex Attracted people according to various Australian studies at primary school = 6%
at Secondary school = 10%
adults = 20%
So there’s as many Transgender people as there are Gays MINIMUM. There’s more Interse people than Gays or Lesbians. And the maximum Transgender estimate is as many as there are Bisexuals.
And Transgender people suffer more violence than G or L either. Often 6-12 times more!
So Glee and the rest of the GLBTI (or should that be BTIGL?) community it’s time to deal with the real proportions and give Trans and Intersex people their due.
SG
There’s no need for this sort of overblown response to a simple word like tranny.
What many people still refuse to recognize is that NO WORD is inherently bigoted. Words only have the meanings we ascribe to them.
By refusing to allow a word like tranny to have bad connotations, you take away the power from the bigots.
It’s the same thing that gay men, bisexuals, lesbians, and trans people have done with the word queer. Or what gay men have done with the words faerie and faggot.
Tranny is not a slur.
I am friends with Trans women who call themselves Trannies. I’m not lying or making any of this up. This is how they self identify.
I know it’s a can of worms when you tell PC Trans people like Marie Delta that yes there are lots of Trans people who do self identify as a Tranny, chick with a dick, or a shemale and there is nothing that the PC Trans people can do about it.
Tranny is a term that is used by many Transgendered women to describe themselves and they self identify as a tranny. There’s nothing wrong with using the word or telling other people that they can’t just because they are cisgender or their natural born gender.
Tranny is not a slur and many if not most trans people call themselves “Tranny”. This tiny group of PC trans police are ignoring the reality and experience and choices of the very people they claim to be speaking for.
If they’re so concerned, they should try to get trans people to feel offended by the word. Because they largely do not. Stop policing Trannies!
ots of trans women like yourself call and self identify themselves a tranny and some even say they are a she male.
You’re now going to paint them with the brush stroke that they are “wrong” for choosing to self identify as a tranny or shemale or that they simply must have internalized Transphobia.
All the info about the ultra PC group GLAAD and ultra PC trans women that censor the word tranny just shows how out of touch with reality, the use of language, and how in complete denial these political groups and people are with how language changes and words take on new meanings.
You’re ignoring the fact that yes there are trans women who do call themselves a tranny or shemale and they have no problem with either of these terms just because you and a minority of Trans people do and want to censor them and claim ownership of the words tranny and shemale and make them into slurs.
If you want to play the victim and continue to grant power to the bigots who would use tranny as a slur, be my guest.
But I’m better than that. And I’ll say tranny with pride.
You keep people marginalized by having them surrender certain words that have been historically used to describe them–declaring those words “non-PC”–so that other groups may perpetually use the words as clubs over the heads of the marginalized.
You empower the oppressor through this surrender.
Every time a GLBT person cries out in horror when another GLBT person uses the word queer, or tranny s/he empowers the enemy.
What is your point Bayne? Bisexuals make up a larger percentage of the population than either Hermaphrodites or the Intersex and Trans people do yet people usually either completely ignore bisexuals or they are perfectly fine with bisexuals.
The PC nazis if they are trans love to flip out and play the cisgender privileges card even though many of them do like to pretend that they have always been the opposite gender of what they were born and always will be despite having surgery and taking loads of hormones like candy. These people do not pass as cisgender people even if they want to pretend that they do.
To be honest I think the trans need to find their own movement. Trans has nothing to do with orientation and frankly, they hold our movement back. Its time for our movement to go GLB and to let them take their attention elsewhere. I am disturbed that they are part of our movement. We talk until we are blue in the face about dropping conventional gender roles, just for them to turn around and switch genders because they were “born in the wrong body.” No, I am sorry, the community talks out of both sides of its mouth on this one!
Further more, take a good hard look at what they teach. St Louis’s own “TransMafia” as it is known or “transhaven” as the trannies call it teaches that it is GOOD that they are classified as having a Psych illness. Many trans people want INSURANCE to cover this “disability”… it is also wrong to say that a child is Trans and that he/she should be placed on hormone therapy before puberty or the earlier the better.
Now tell me, when the GLB community consists of many people who really DO have family values and who DO want FULL equality, why do we include a community that wants to ride on the backs of insurance companies and SSI as “disabled” and that wants to put children on hormone therapy? Why are we inclusive of a group that wants OUR equality but demands different treatment??
Then there is the fact that Trans people love to play the victim card and say that everyone that is Cisgendered has it so much easier than they do and that we have some privileges that they do not have and will never have.
S's
MAYBE IM DUMB,MAYBE IM STUPID ,MAYBE IM REHEARTED(ANOTHER WAY OF SAY RE-8&^&^D ,BUT NOT SAYING IT); MAYBE IM A GAY IT GAL , OR MAYBE IM SOMETHInG(BUT DONT CALL ME TRANSGENDER ANYMO ) ; BUT ANYWAY ; JUZ BCUS SUM1 SEZS OR USES D DURTY T WORD MENY TYMS OR ALL D TYM OR CUS UR FREN SEZ ITS O’K(OR SUSAN SURANDON/GLEE/JERRY SPRINGER DNT GET IT,CUS THER R ALL GODS CREATIONS ‘N CELEB-PLANS ) ,DNT MEAN —
THE WURD CHANGES ?IT REMAINS D SAME ; DEHUMANIZATION ‘N DEROGATORY(OF EAZY MOCKERY OF NOTNG ; ‘N LEAVES TRANSGENDERISM AZ A MENTAL ILLNESS ;LUK IT UP ) ; WISH PPL WUD STOP(‘N KINDA THINK) …. IM NOTT HUMAN ‘N SO RNT U–YEH ME DNT GET IT NITHER….THE END(NOTHING MO TO SAY ,ANGER/TEAR OF TIZ ;CHILD PILL / DINNER TYM )…
Bayne MacGregor
SG, y point is that Glee and all the rest of TV has too few Trans and Intersex characters compared to smaller minorities let alone showing everyone in amounts equal to their proportion of the population which is what they would if TV had no prejudice.
Shows like Glee can and should have Trans and Intersex characters! And not just guest ones either.
I find it funny you think that Trans has nothing to do with orientation when from a scientific viewpoint GL show cross-sex neurology, Transsexuals show cross-sex neurology, it’s expected Bis and the rest of Trans will show cross-sex neurology and so science currently suggests GLBT are all forms of Intersex anyway.
Then there’s the fact that many GLB people are gender-non-conforming especially as children (which is why Dr Zucker tries to turn Trans kids into cisgender gays and lesbians, he’s scared if he doesn’t all GLB’s will turn Trans).
Then there’s the fact that every single GLB issue is also a Trans and Intersex issue and that the same human rights issues effect all of GLBTI in one way or another.
Heck did you know that the original California marriage victory came from Trans peoples court battles? Trans peoples battles have lead to plenty of GLB victories!
Holding you back? For goodness sake if you fought every Intersex issue, which is easy enough to prove they are all ‘born that way’ and that preventing them from self-defining in every facet of their lives then you’d win by default every single GLB issue! Because every single GLB issue is about defending or breaking down the false lines of a binary hetero sex/gender system. The physical reality of Trans and especially Intersex (and even the mentioning of it in the words of Jesus in the bible in Mathew 19:12 which totally ruins the strength of religious objections) is the achilles heel in all our battles. Whats holding us all back is the transphobia and intersexphobia in our own community that’s stopped ITBLG from using it’s most powerful arguments.
Heck there were even several voting victories in the last few years on pro-Trans legislation while failure after failure on gay marriage put to the vote.
And look up at my stats, the people who do change there bodies as is their right to do so (and the science backs that their brain really is wired to be the opposite sex) are less than 1% of Transgender people even using the highest estimate of Transsexuals and the lowest of the rest of Transgender.
No-one talks about putting children onto hormones. Here you show you don’t know what you are talking about. They put children on Hormone Blockers to delay puberty till the child is legally old enough and mature enough to choose which way they want their bodies to change. It’s no different than not doing surgery on an Intersex baby with it’s high chance of ruining their life forever and instead waiting till the child is old enough to say for themselves which if any surgery they should have. It’s about delaying irreversible physical changes till the child can make their own choice for themselves.
And victim card? Oh for goodness sake go read this: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/04/2918401.htm when GLBs get stabbed and bashed as often as T then you can complain about the victim card. Till then Trans take the 3-6 times the punches and stabs of societies prejudice towards the entire GLBT community and Intersex get it in the groin with a scalpel before they can even talk.
Get a grip. Trans and Intersex are your sword and shield, we take most of the blows for you and we win many of the victories in court and even sometimes the ballot box.
We started fighting for our rights before you GLB joined in with us! Before even Compton let alone Stonewall. The law used against Stonewall was an Anti-Transgender Law! And Transgender people fought back.
By numbers, by human rights, by history, by science, by strategic value Intersex and Transgender belong in GLBTI not on the fringes but right in the midst of it. You already owe us for how we have helped you in the past and for the wrongs done to T and I by the phobes and backstabbers in GLB history, and for your own ignorant desire to cast us out when we earned our place in the community several times over. We aren’t going away and your just going to have to learn how to cope.
indi.anna
GLAAD is right to call you out…
No cis gendered smartass over privileged asshole gets to dictate to us trans people what is or isnt acceptable. Educate yourself Susan and supporters. Especially the gay supporters. You should know better.
Its not ok and if you think it is a dare you to test it under the right environmental conditions.
good luck with your bigoted enableism.
indi.anna
@Craig:
she couldnt be more wrong
indi.anna
@gina: well said
indi.anna
@Mike in Asheville: yeah @hephaestion:
she’s an ally to the gay community maybe but its clear that doesnt extend to us. She is wrong and I said it a million times “if your cis you dont get to dictate to us what is or isnt acceptable. Its not acceptable and GLAAD knows this. Thankyou GLAAD once again for calling it out.
indi.anna
@Kev C:
I am a trans activist and GLAAD is 100% correct
indi.anna
@Mr. Enemabag Jones:
thankyou a gay ally that gets it <3
to the ones that dont. EDUCATE YOURSELVES PLEASE.
indi.anna
@Transsexual women are NOT property of gay men:
totally agreed I am tired of GAY men dictating to US what is and isnt acceptable. Its not acceptable full stop. Educate yourselves and while your there for once try defending us instead of always kicking us under the bus.
indi.anna
@Fausto Fernos:
screw you, call me that to my face and see what happens next.
Your wrong and the “oh but my trans friends are ok with it” trope is a tried old excuse for continued discrimination and marginalization.
no its not OK
educate yourself and dont be an asshole
BROOKECERDA
SORRY TO BREAK YOUR HEARTS GAYS,BUT BIANCA DEL RIO DOESN’T EXIST.ITS A CHARACTER JUST LIKE BOZO OR RUPAUL, BUT CARMEN, JANET , LAVERNE & MYSELF ARE WOMEN.
AND IF ANY OF YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF A MAN, YOU WOULD KNOW HOW TO TREAT A WOMAN .
THERE ARE NO DEGREES OF WOMANHOOD.
WOMEN ARE WOMEN, TRANSGENDER OR CISGENDER.
YOU BEING GAY DOES NOT GIVE YOU A PASS BE VULGAR WITH US.
I DONT CARE HOW FEM YOU LOOK.
BODIES ARE NOT GENDER.
RESPECT ALL WOMEN !!
STOP MAKING AN ASS OF YOUR TRANSPHOBIC SELVES .