Folks like Bilerico‘s Bil Browning flip-flopped on their support for the National Equality March (he was against it, now he’s for it!). Dan Choi is for it, and Julian Bond just said he is too. We keep hearing similar things from readers: Those who were against it are now for it, while plenty who originally supported NEM now have no plans of attending (or donating). TELL QUEERTY: Has your position changed?
Vlogger Philip Deal has this message about apathy for those who won’t join in Cleve Jones’ birthday celebration in October: You’re an apathetic punk. So, despite the shady tax status of the march, and despite (or because of?) HRC coming on board, has your stance on the Washington D.C. gathering changed?
(Read these carefully so you select the correct option. About by “support,” we mean the answer you would provide if a friend asks you if you think the march is a good idea.)
We also wanted to know how far your support goes. Are you donating cash to the march?
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Qjersey
Apathy is draining our community all from, er, top to bottom. Local LGBT orgs are struggling for donations, volunteers, board members…and at the er, top, well they (HRC) can seem to find the position that feels good for them, so they keep switching.
Joan
Spouse still out of work; still struggling to pay medical bills. Is the Human Rights Champagne doing anything to help me afford to attend their soiree? I think not.
JV
I think is pathetic how much we all love to complain about not being treated equally and how bad we have it, but when it comes to show the country how large of a group we are, most of us are apathetic and back up. If you don’t support the cause, then shut up and don’t criticize.
hyhybt
Why don’t people who write these questions (not just here; they’re all over the internet with the same problem) either allow us to select more than one answer or take the time to write an answer list that doesn’t need that option? For example, “it’s a stupid idea” and “I have no money” easily overlap; in fact, one of the reasons it’s a stupid idea, especially now, is that so many people don’t have the money, or if they do it’s better used elsewhere.
SFNative
I had recently written a letter to assembly men and women in Anchorage, Alaska, and shared it through the internet. Someone criticized my letter, to which I replied that I was thankful for their points in helping me improve going forward, but more important I told this person to write a letter of his own to the Assembly men and women as well. And he did, and the letter was great.
If people are complaining, then we should be telling them to join the cause and help out in any way they can. We should absolutely not be telling them to shut up. And we should absolutely not be telling them not to criticize, because criticisms are opportunities to help us improve and be better in what we do. Instead, we should stray from the temptation of bitterness and hatred (as Dr. MLK would say) and foster a positive environment among ourselves.
JV
@SFNative: I agree with you in that criticism able us to improve; however, we all know that many of us in the gay community love to just stay in the side lines criticizing everything without wanting to help. Perhaps, in your case the person that criticized your letter had a valid point and wanted to contribute but that is not always the case.
QueerToday
I’m not attending the march becuase it would cost me hundreds of dollars and put a lot of pollution into the air… for what? To get energized? NO thanks. I’m already energized here and will be continuing to work locally for change.
Ohomo
We already bought our air plane tickets.
JV
I think that my point has been proven with the number of comments to this post. If it was a post in regards to The Gosselin family, The housewives of New Jersey or Bruno the movie, there would be hundreds of comments.
Brian
It’s a STUPID IDEA.
I have exchanged several emails with the National Equality March organizers and while I believe they are well intentioned, they NEVER had a single reason for why the March would contribute to equality. Assembling a group in Washington DC DOES NOT accomplish a single thing, except the waste of money/resources.
I think Cleve Jones missed an opportunity to create a strategy and then give that strategy some meaning by a “show of support.” This is not even a Parade, it’s a Charade. This coupled with nagging questions about fundraising – which are simple to answer, cast a negative light on the whole project.
I am spending my money in my neighborhood and City. I know it will make a difference here. Paying for an “aimless crowd” to march around an empty City (DC) is JUST STUPID.
Let’s save the March idea for a time when we have something to celebrate – like equality.
twstone
I bought my plane ticket shortly after it was announced.
I don’t know what the big deal is and why people are complaining about it. Money is extremely tight for me. I just graduated college, my students loan payments have officially kicked in and I barely make my rent on time. However, this is a chance for me to finally take a stand and make sure I am doing something for my rights, for my community and for the future gay and lesbians out there.
Brian
@twstone: You don’t have to travel to DC to “take a stand.” You can go outside and do that. Nobody cares about a small group of “lgbt” walking in DC. Don’t waste your money and pay your rent on time.
InExile
We have a President that is not doing anything for LGBT rights, the march is a great ideas and the time is right.[img]http://pic.photobucket.com/spacer.gif[/img]
InExile
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3325/3428819857_5655c2c6b7.jpg[/img]
Charles Merrill
I am going and I donated 5K. You linked to the Petrelisfile.com article naming me. I don’t pay taxes due to protesting DOMA, so a donation being tax deductible is a joke because it doesn’t matter to me.
In the beginning I wasn’t sure of going, but encouraged by my friends Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie to go. (we met due to a common atheist bond and the gay marriage issue through e-mails) That was several weeks ago. Will they go or donate? I don’t know. Anywhere they go it turns into a media frenzy. Also, there seems to be a strong religious factor developing from MCC and other “respectable” queers, using the the civil rights march of Martin Luther King as a template.
twstone
@Brian: I do step outside and am very involved in my local LGBT groups. I just think this is a great opportunity to have a large group of us together rather than the 50 we get in my area.
getreal
We need to get rid of the rally culture. These rallies don’t change laws and they take money and manpower away from the real work being done. I respect the organizers of the National March but I think they are doing the community a disservice with this rally.There are important ballot initiatives coming up next year in battle ground states that will dictate the civil rights of millions of lgbt people in this country.There are people who are becoming addicted to speaking in front of crowds instead of doing the grassroots work necessary to really make change.
Brian
@Charles Merrill: MCC is going? The phony “you’re welcome here” but homosexuality is still wrong? You actually said that? MCC is a Christian con-job.
Brad Pitt and Angie have been generous with their comments – but, people going to Washington DC doesn’t do any good. None. It doesn’t matter if we form a group and say we are “pissed.” We need a strategy to gain equality and we need to spend our money wisely. This March is not a strategy.
Some day we can March – let’s do it when we actually win something. People don’t care about homosexuals because they believe we are wrong – religion did that. Until we change that belief we are not going to win anything. Marching around doesn’t change that.
Brian
@twstone: But, there won’t be a big crowd.
Brian
A friend received an email from the National Equality March thanking him for his donation – it said the “National Equality March, Inc. a non-profit Corporation.”
Charles Merrill (above) received an email stating “Thank you so much for your donation to Equality Across America! We are fiscally sponsored by White Knot for Equality, and your contribution will be handled by them in its transfer to us. On your credit card statement, this contribution will be designated as DEMOCRACYINACTION.ORG.
Recent releases from Cleve Jones said we are affiliated with the Tides Organization.
How much fund-raising intrigue do we need? This is a mess. Two weeks ago we were promised financials – still none. The website (reportedly) does not get much traffic. But, they keep collecting money.
This project is about to get fully investigated – another black eye for gays and lesbians.
Thanks Cleve. When can we expect our refunds?
Andrew W.
PHILLIP DEAL: Your video misses the point – we are NOT apathetic, we are SMART. The National March for Equality is just plain stupid. I wish I had a better word. It is DOES NOT serve a reasonable purpose. Being able to form a group and march around doesn’t accomplish anything. It is an event without a purpose or strategy and it is expensive.
I suspect that your video appeal was the result of an all-expenses paid trip to the big event. That’s the only explanation I have. If true, it makes the whole scam of a National March even more disingenuous.
Perhaps at this point in the now tedious conversation about this silly March, Cleve Jones will open the books and tell us HOW this March changes anything. So far, it’s just been an embarrassment. A sad embarrassment.
schlukitz
@InExile:
We have a President that is not doing anything for LGBT rights, the march is a great ideas and the time is right.
I’ll see you there, buddy! DC’s not that far from the Big Apple. ;o)
Love the Obamabus! HeeHee
Joel
The video poses a false choice–between apathy and activism–when the real debate over this march is between activism far v. near.
I’ve yet to hear a single march proponent tell us what the march aims to actually accomplish.
Congress won’t be here, and neither will your hometown city councils, mayors, county commissioners, school boards, state legislators, pastors, or countless others who need to hear from us. At most, they’ll read/see/hear that a bunch of gay people marched in DC. Point being?
I cannot believe this march is being proposed precisely as we all are seeing the traction that activists on the far opposite side of the spectrum are gaining by taking action at home. There are no anti-Obama marches planned for DC. They’ve stayed home, they’re having an impact (despite their deplorable tactics) and yet we’re still ripping a page out of a protest playbook that was written in the 60s and 70s?
What a shameful mountain of pointless and expectable thinking. Haven’t we suffered enough from this lack of political creativity and potency?
Chance
@Joel: Excellent.
WillBFair
It never ends.
After thirty years of shooting themselves in the foots, the community ignored polls showing public support for domestic partnership, threw away an easy victory, and wasted sweet cash fighting for marraige in hick California. The leadership can’t make one argument that the puiblic will buy, and are too lazy to create practical proposals. With only a vague demand for full equality now, they’re planning a party in DC complete with drag queens, leather pigs, and well dressed urbanites kissing and dry humping their way across the mall. That’ll play well in Tulsa and will probably turn national opinion against us. Good thinking Ollie. At least it’ll be fun, which is what this is all about. Who cares if it actually harms the movement?
WillBFair
Like that video is so like wow. I just think our like strategy should be made by a blonde twink. It’s so like the way to go, and I’m like so into it. Like really.
getreal
@WillBFair: LGBT people are denied up to 182 rights in this country. Domestic partnerships are second class citizenship and completely unacceptable.The supreme court case Brown vs Board of Education made it clear that separate but equal is unconstitutional and un-American.Black people didn’t march for some of their rights they march for all of them and lgbt people deserve full equality nothing less.
schlukitz
@WillBFair:
You really ought to stick to blogging on your own naysayer, doom and gloom for Gays site (Snivelife) instead of coming onto Queerty and using it as public toilet in which to take a dump.
Joel
Getreal: Was anyone on here arguing that we already have full rights? I don’t understand the point of your lecturing us on the deficiencies. How about you take a crack at answering the question that’s really on the table: how the march will tangibly assist in achieving our rights.
If all you’re contributing is “well the blacks marched,” I have to ask why you feel repeating Bayard Rustin’s model is potent right now.
Stay home. That’s what the Right has done. Good God, a bunch of unhinged warblers decided to confront their reps right in their hometown, at town hall meetings, and in 30 days they cowered a WH and Dem leaders in both the House and Senate.
We can’t do better than they did? The best idea we have is a giant meet up on the Mall, when Congress isn’t here, with a small sliver of attendees subsequently wandering the halls of Congress to beg for 15 minutes with a 20-something junior legislative aide?
Joel
Correction: Further up in the thread, I see that Getreal actually disagrees with the march (or “rally culture” as s/he termed it). My aim was off inasmuch as Getreal is concerned, sorry for that. Please consider my questions posed to march organizers and supporters.
toe edge
Andrew,
You are relentless with the negative spin. Maybe you should treat yourself to a long vacation in Nigeria, Rwanda and Uganda. Perhaps experiencing new levels of homophobia will brighten your mood when you return home.
Have a safe trip!
getreal
@Joel: I don’t stay home unlike you who will go to a rally and sit on your ass for the next year I will be out canvassing, phonebanking, and signature gathering every weekend till the election. Unlike you I personally know and respect most of the people organizing the march but it is more important to me to win the next elections for gay rights then go to DC and preach to the choir for a weekend. It is not a matter of apathy it is a matter of priorities I am interested in getting bad ballot initiatives overturned and good ones passed not feeling like an activist by taking a weekend getaway to DC. Going to a rally does not contribute to the movement volunteering your time to on the ground work does. Even the busiest person can donate 4 hours of their time a month at a minimum or they can be full of it and go to dc then go home and go back to doing nothing.
getreal
@Joel: Well I guess we both have bad aim tonight I read your second message and I will aim my message to the supporters organizers of the march too.
Greg Theron
How do we get there exactly? Do we all get a ride our selves or something? Also, what is this $25 fee the guy mentioned in the video? Thanks.
Joel
Agreed, Getreal. I know some of the organizers too, and have always been very active on the local front, in addition to public service and political activism at the state and national levels. All three levels are important, of course, but it would appear we agree the meet up on the Mall offers no tangible product.
I remain stunned at how quickly the far Right, along with particular interests, moved needles with their localized bleating. The only thing more stunning: that march organizers persist in their anemic project, in the face of all we’ve seen lately.
Bill Perdue
New endorsements are coming in all the time. They include the MCC, Dan Choi, Michael Letwin, Co-Convener, New York City Labor Against the War and best of all Julian Bond, NAACP Board Chair.
Mass marches, a series of them, will do more for the cause of GLBT equality than all the lobbying in the world. The debate has never been about activists vs. sluggards or local vs. regional vs. national. It’s always been a fight by Obot Democrats to suppress the idea of mass actions that might injure their party and their ‘leader’. This march and succeeding ones locally and nationally will do exactly that. The March on Washington will be an anti-Obama rally and that’s why Obots, the DNC and rightwingers of all kinds are terrified of it.
That’s why they deserve our total support. What ever hurts Obama or his Republican junior partners in crime helps us. However it’s organized and promoted this and succeeding rallies are going to showcase the obdurate bigotry and contempt of Obama’s administration for the LGBT communities. They’ll help build the movement that will either force the Obama and the Democrats to accept our full agenda or get politically shoved aside by people who will.
It’s time to force the issue. Lobbying and begging doesn’t work but a series of national local and regional demonstrations will.
It’s also time to start getting buses, planes and car pools lined up and time to start on the banners and signs.
Repeal Bill Clinton’s DADT and DOMA now
Pass the ERA
Pass ENDA and DADT now
Bring the Troops Home Now
Tax the Churches now and for all eternity
CINDY SHEEHAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2012!!! (She hasn’t announced but I hope she does)
Free needles, condoms and Sex Education/AIDS Awareness classes in every school, especially religious schools
Repeal Prop 8 and all the date DOMAs
Chitown Kev
I fully support the March but I plan on going to Maine the weekend of the March. We are fighting a multiple-front war and we need troops at all of the fronts.
Bill Perdue
Oops = state DOMAS@Bill Perdue:
schlukitz
I am constantly amazed at the negativity of posters like QueerToday, Brian, GetReal, Joel, WillBFair and other naysayers who constantly shoot-down any ideas that differ from theirs as to how the LGBT community should go about winning their civil-rights.
The Johnny-come-lately types seem to believe that the only way to get things done…is their way and everyone else’s efforts don’t amount to a hill of beans. Such colossal, cavalier arrogance is astounding, appalling and disgusting.
I suspect that these same people would tell Dick Leitsch, Barbara Gittings, Frank Kameny, Craig Rodwell, Harvey Milk and a legion of brave men and women who who put it all on the line for us and whose names are probably mostly unknown to all of the gay naysayers, were doing it all wrong.
I suppose it never occurred to any of you people that the very rights you now enjoy, which were not available to gay people in pre-Stonewal days, would never have come about if it had not been for sit-ins, protesting, marching in the streets of our major cities including Wash. DC,…and yes, even rioting in the streets as they did in New York and San Francisco.
How dare you people who call yourselves gay, tell those of us who have spent a lifetime fighting for the very rights you enjoy to sit down at the back of the bus and shut the fuck up!
How do you get like that?
Bill Perdue
@schlukitz: Huzzah!
Greg Theron
@schlukitz: Very well said
Brian
@schlukitz: Nobody in these comments said HOW this stupid March would change anything. It’s NOT a strategy – it’s a waste of time and money.
Spend your money where you can make a difference – in your neighborhood, town or City.
This fund-raising mess will be exposed soon. It’s a non-event.
Chitown Kev
@schlukitz:
What I don’t get is the extremes of this argument. Supporting both local and national actions are very important.
I simply can’t afford a Chicago-DC-Maine venture, I really only have the funds to pick one. And I can barely do that.
M Shane
No. 25 · WillBFair ;
I an truly impresed to hear the voice of someone who has thought about this matter rationaly and realizes that the fight could have already been won if the gay people who want recognition as couples would realise that they they almost completely avoid conflict if they would grasp the real facyt that they are engaging themselves in a religious war that willl not likely be won in this atmosphere. It only makes sense to me that given the large percentage of religious people in this country , that gays are just trying for normality , not recognition as they say. (despite the justafications of more rights, which few people need and which may be assured eventually anyway) .
What is happening is a dangerous backlash of disfavor for gays, which will make the whole “marriage”effort much more than a waste, it will betragic, for people who want jobs, a lack of harassment, etc.. So many people are so caught up in this need for the ceremony that they will just dismiss this as “naysaying” without thinking what they are really doing.
Joel
Schlukitz: Thanks so much for assuming I would have told Frank Kameny he was “doing it all wrong,” or that his name is “probably mostly unknown” to me as a march doubter.
I’ve lived in DC for twenty years, have had the repeated pleasure of meeting and chatting with Mr. Kameny (participated in a meeting with him just a few months ago, in fact) and unendingly honor his role in our history.
So, at the risk of inciting another torrent of your inaccurate ad hominem smears, may I return you to the question at hand: what are the tangible political products of this march?
The abject virginity you have assumed of my activism aside, my work has spanned from stints on the Hill, to also working on a massive, massive march on Washington in 2004 (March for Women’s Lives). From both those perspectives, I see very little tangible political product from these marches. Congress won’t be here, and the 20-something junior legislative aides from whom a sliver of march participants will beg a meeting, are not nearly as important for dialogue as the Reps and Senators themselves. Even the most feeble minded conservative has figured this much out, why can’t we?
schlukitz
@Chitown Kev:
I could not agree with you more. Supporting both local and national actions are very important. As a life-time LBBT rights activist, I understand that only too well.
In these difficult financial times, I also completely understand the dilemma you face in choosing a venue to show your support for the lGBT community and it’s objectives.
It’s now how much or how little we do that matters. It’s the fact that we do something, anything, no matter how insignificant it might seem to others. That was the point I was trying to make.
You are doing what you can and what your finances will permit and for that you are to be commended. And, for those generous efforts, you have the full appreciation and support of your LGBT brothers and sisters including myself.
schlukitz
@Joel:
You’ve obviously already made up your mind.
Who am I to confuse you with the facts?
schlukitz
@Brian:
Whatever floats your boat!
Joel
Weak dodge there, Schlukitz.
And the new grand tally on anyone (from the top march organizers on down to blog commenters) explaining the tangible political benefits of this march
=
0
JV
@schlukitz: Well said Schlukitz
schlukitz
@M Shane:
Avoiding conflict? Starting a religious war?
Trying for normality?
We fired the first shot, did we?
We voted away a right belonging to the religious right, did we?
Demanding the same rights that both non-religious and religious heterosexuals have always enjoyed is trying for normality?
You wanna sit in the back of the bus….then go for it. But, don’t expect the rest of us to join you there.
Greg Theron
To those who aren’t going to the march, please shut the fuck up. You guys are seriously annoying. It’s not your money being sent, the LGBT community is trying to take every opportunity to try and win our rights back, and if you want to sit on your ass and wait for a local protest to go on, then be my guest. But for those who plan on attending a long journey and want to help contributing by donation, is ones choice.
So if you aren’t going because you think “it’s a waste of time” then shut up. Just wait for some petition to be emailed to you by HRC or something and leave all the hard work to the ones who ACTUALLY fucking care.
InExile
@schlukitz: Well said! Not only the rights we now have were achieved by protesting but also AIDS funding for treatment and research was also won via protesting. We need to do it all to make America wake up both locally and nationally. Keep in mind many states will never support our equality so the key for the gays that live in those states is to have Federal laws granting them equality.
Joel
You stay classy there, Greg. March doubters shoud “shut the f up” and are to be distinguished from “the ones who actually f’ing care.”
I did like, however, your line about “taking every opportunity to try and win our rights.”
So sorry for refusing to silence myself (an onerous goal of your version of gay activism), but the march will tangibly contribute towards the above stated goal how, exactly?
Greg Theron
@Joel:
I apologize for all the curse words, I vented over the web, of course, and that was childish.
I just believe in direct action, since action does speak louder than words. The march in my mind is supposed to help show Americans that the GLBT is dead serious and to help show awareness.
We have recently been hiding since the last election, after the results of Prop. 8, the anti-gay rights community has shot us down and kept us down, we need to rise up again in large groups to show we haven’t forgotten.
Joel
Greg: I appreciate your reasonable words. I agree very strongly with what you just stated: that we got comfortable, and we all need to ratchet up the awareness, and visibility.
A good argument can be made that we resemble the repro rights movement in the aftermath of the Webster decision: shocked that our rights can be stamped upon in “this day and age.” You and every one of us–and just as importantly, our growing ranks of non-gay allies–are appalled, angry, and ready to act.
The questions are: where, and how?
We are not alone, as a political constituency, in reverting to the “let’s march on Washington” response. It’s become a reflex, but at what cost-to-benefit ratio?
Congress won’t be here. The march is struggling to drag itself across the finish line. And of the literally hundreds, if not thousands, of marches on Washington, only two had yield: Bonus Army, and MLK’s historic moment.
What has changed since then? The ‘Net, plus the realization of “local first,” are just two, and plenty in my mind to abandon our “march on Washington” reflex.
The conservative screamers at health care town hall meetings are deplorable, but their overseers are smart: concentrating all energies on Main Street, instead of the Mall, works.
Think about it: how much time did Harvey Milk spend in Washington?
Joel
Correction: the myriad of actions upon Washington re: the Vietnam War had tangible yield, of course. I was focusing in the moment upon singular gatherings, the anti-war marches were many, but well deserving of inclusion in potent marches upon Washington.
Bill Perdue
@Joel: Who gives a damn if Congress is there or not? That’s the lamest objection I’ve yet to hear.
They have TVs, phones and access to the net and if all that technology is just a bit too confusing they have staffs to log on, operate TV remotes and even dial cell phones. They’ll hear all about it.
In any case lobbying is the least effective weapon in our armory. Democrats in Congress and the White House (and their Republicans junior partners) spend far more time paying attention to the insistent bigotry of the religious right and corporate lobbyists than us. What we get for taking the trouble talking to them is run over by their bigot bus – Obama, Pelosi, Frank and Reid spend lots of time gassing it up going hunting.
It’s really not very bright to appeal to them. We have to compel them. Repetitive mass actions can do for us what they did for suffragists, tread unionists, civil rights advocates and the Vietnam antiwar movement. They can help us win. Lobbying is most often a waste of time and effort.
excellent drawing by http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b372/BuffyTheFundieSlayer
[img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b372/BuffyTheFundieSlayer/Pics/bus1.jpg[/img]
Joel
Bill: I’m trying to envision the movie script you’re pitching here. Bunch of us groove on the Mall, and at some point the WH and Congress cry uncle because of it.
Tell us the missing scenes between those two, please.
Chitown Kev
@Bill Perdue:
One key word in what you say Bill…”repetitive.”
One march will simply not do it. The MOW should be followed up immeaditely by a series of smaller marches/protests both in DC and locally.
Chitown Kev
@Joel:
The “missing scenes” are additional marches
Joel
Cleve Jones has summed up the supposed purpose of this thing himself: “This march is an organizing vehicle to create a national grassroots movement to change votes in Congress. That’s the purpose.”
I think I’m getting the picture now: without this analogue assemblage on the Mall in Washington, when Congress isn’t here, we won’t be able to fully and most effectively mobilize people locally, to eventually change votes in Congress.
And the anti-health-care reformers had how many marches on Washington before they socked it to the WH and Congress, in less than 30 days to boot?
This would all be funny if it weren’t so sorrowful. Dramatic dreams from yore, foisted on a struggling movement in 2009, and meanwhile belligerent octogenarians on the far opposite side of the political spectrum are showing how you get real traction, and fast.
Popsnap
Well, it’s way too easy nowadays for GLBT people not to care. If you have supportive friends, an accepting family, a decent job, and maybe even a loving partner, it’s very easy to say “Im not affected by homphobia, I mean I support gay marriage and-OOH American Idol’s on! Adam Lambert ftw!” or the very prevelent among young gay men is “Fuck you, if you don’t like me I’ll kick your ass” “What’s stonewall, anyway?”.
Both sets of attitudes are killing our community and are an insult to the memory of Harvey Milk & many other brave people who allowed us into complacency.
And no I’m not going to the March on Washington because I am underage. Even if I were over 18 I still probably wouldn’t go because maybe 10,000 people will show up tops. :/
Popsnap
@M Shane:
A “Backlash”? Are you nuts? We have mountains of demographics, polls, protests, look at Miss California’s controversy for just saying she didn’t support marriage equality. Look at how little of a margain Prop 8 passed by- 52% voted against us, but 48% voted FOR us. In case you dont remember, the vote in 2000 won by 65% or so to change the definition of marriage in Cali to mean “1 man, 1 woman”.
Seriously, shut up with the doomsday OH NOES HITLERS COMING bullshit. We’re making serious progress for the first time in mnany years.
InExile
@Bill Perdue: For once I agree with you! Mass civil disobedience can make Washington take notice. By not protesting we are making life easier for these do nothing politicians. There is also another point and that is giving politicians political cover or a reason to act on equality. If we do not give them the reason, why should they do anything, they can put it off until next year, next term, and on and on. Our President is not moving on anything for gays, he needs a wake up call.
InExile
http://pic.photobucket.com/spacer.gif
Bill Perdue
@Chitown Kev: Exactly. Followed by another round of regional marches (in SF or LA and Chi or Atlanta and NY or DC) and then more rounds of national marches and then local marches and then…
Bill Perdue
@Joel: It’s not a movie script, and perhaps that why you’re so confused.
The suffragists had mass marches, zaps, and hunger strikes until they won the right to vote. It took decades.
Unions held mass marches, sit-ins and general strikes until FDR figured out what was next on the agenda, pissed himself and gave them what they wanted.
GIs at he end of WWII had mass marches and rallies demanding that they not be sent to China and Greece. Truman peed his pants and caved.
In 1975, after a decade of mass marches, the growth of the GI antiwar movement (until it effectively destroyed ‘fighting spirit’) and decades of brave, fierce reisitance by Vietnamese paytriots and leftists Nixon got his own stained pantleg and the US military brass, the CIA and MACV ran away, tails between their legs.
It’ll take time and along the way we’ll have to put up with whiners telling us that our efforts are doomed but win we will.
And if you must base your view of reality on movies at least get a good one like The Battle of Algiers.
[img]http://www.offoffoff.com/film/2004/images/battleofalgiers.jpg[/img]
Joel
Marches in Washington are not “mass civil disobedience.” They happen all the time, the National Park Service and the DCMPD treat these things like just another folder in their tickler file of permits. Members of Congress almost never witness these things, and their junior staff have seen too many of them to care (there are three other events on the Mall that very day, or, sorry, should I call them three other “acts of mass civil disobedience”?). Media only raise an eyebrow and get something more than b roll if you have serious numbers, which this march never had, and will struggle to achieve.
Mass civil disobedience? Let’s please forfeit the dramatic cinematic visuals for a real understanding of what this thing is, and more importantly what it is most certainly not.
JV
@Joel: I live a few blocks from the National Mall and DO NOT see marches happening every day, specially marches with thousands of civillians protesting for equality and civil rights…. Momebrs of Congress might not see a march on the Mall but certainly the media does and after all, the media is a strong influence in today’s politics.
Joel
Who said marches are “happening every day”? I sure didn’t, so what’s your point? What I did speak to was the fact many are held, they are a worn reflex, and that they are not “civil disobedience.” Oh, the media will get some packages together. Whether we’ll actually get anything out of it is another question.
JV
@Joel: Excuse me for not quoting you correctly… Then I’ll say they really do not “happen all the time”. You question whether we’ll actually get anything out of it and I question whether we get anything without out it. It seems to me that certainly we’ll get more with it but I respect your disagreement. Now, let me ask you; what do you think is more productive then? Give me one valuable option and I will support it as well as I’m supporting this march.
Joel
One valuable option to an anemic meet up on the Mall? That’s easy. Turn on your TV. Or go to a congressional town hall meeting on health care near you. As I’ve said in every single comment here, conservatives have stripped the gears off the WH and Congress. The elderly shouters are deplorable, but their strategic puppet masters are not.
How many marches on Washington did they need first to somehow bankshot into yet other marches, to then arrive at some influence upon Congress? That’s what Cleve has stated is the purpose of this march. This is insane; have you observed how influence and opposition and power is actually obtained and used? Marches on Washington aren’t part of it.
Joel
[should have been their puppet masters are not dumb.]
JV
@Joel: Yes Joel! I will turn on my tv and sit on my ass watching the world goes around from my living room. I will also go to a town hall meeting on health care reform expecting that the media will take a look at me and my appearance at the meeting will make an impact in Congress.
To answer your question in regards to the use of power and influence; well, yes and perhaps so because that is all I see living in DC and working for the ‘machine’; and I also know the power of the people that protest for a cause.
I see there is no point continuing this conversation with you and therefore I’m giving up on you but I will not give up doing all I can for equal civil rights.
JV
By the way, and in case is not clear, this statement is completely sarcastic
“@Joel: Yes Joel! I will turn on my tv and sit on my ass watching the world goes around from my living room. I will also go to a town hall meeting on health care reform expecting that the media will take a look at me and my appearance at the meeting will make an impact in Congress.”
Joel
Perhaps hints and irony were lost on you. I was not suggesting you sit and watch TV as an option to taking action. Nor was I suggesting you attend a health care meeting instead of taking action for LGBT rights.
I suppose I need to actually spell this out for you:
Media has been blanketed recently with an example of people taking action that had immediate and devastating impact upon the WH and Congress.
They did not hold a single march (or the mystery follow on marches that Cleve suggests, but surely will not organize), in order to have their impact.
Got it now? Good.
Andrew
@M Shane: You need to look at the polls regarding “religious” people and do the Math. 1/3 of the people in the US are emphatically Non-Religious and almost entirely supportive of rights for gays. 1/3 of the people are Very-Religious and typically over the age of 40. The last 1/3 is in the Uncertain-Middle. Engaging a dialogue about Religion and the “homosexuality lie” will force denominations to make a choice: Equality or ancient Dogma. Based on polling data most will break towards Equality.
LGBT people will only have a chance at Equality by ending the “lie” about homosexuals. As long as we are “wrong, sinners and deviant,” we can NEVER be EQUAL.
It is time to stand up for ourselves and reject the religious lie about homosexuals. If religion refuses to change, they will lose business. THAT is the ONLY way to get them to change – money.
Andrew
@Greg Theron: You are an Idiot. Because we do not support this STUPID (POINTLESS) MARCH you suggest we “don’t care.” It is just the opposite we know if this March does take place it will be a waste of time, money and energy. It also appears it will be an EMBARRASSMENT to the gay community and whatever “movement” we still have.
Hacks from the National Equality March are trying to make this Poll look favorable. Nobody is going. The web-traffic to the NOM site indicates that maybe 25,000 people will attend. That should generate laughter and nothing else.
Find something positive to do with your time, energy and money.
Brian
@Bill Perdue: Hey Bill – it’s 2009. Welcome to the “present.”
Greg Theron
@Andrew: You don’ t need to be there, no one is forcing you. I thought a lot of things are pointless when people try to send out a message, but you don’t see me bitching. And whatever, like I said before, wait for some petition to come along in your email address and sign it and feel like a hot shot.
Bill Perdue
@Brian: If you’re saying that we’re not children of history and that it doesn’t repeat itself you’re just stupid.
If you’re just whipping up some spin you’re just inane.
In any case you have no clue about politics in 0009 or 2009.
Joel
“wait for some petition to come along in your email address and sign it and feel like a hot shot”
More false choices: you’re either for the march, or for sitting on your ass and maybe clicking an email at most? What nonsense.
Greg Theron
@Joel: Exactly. What else would you be doing on a saturday/sunday? Oh let me guess.
Maybe go see a movie and have brunch on Sunday. Ah yes.
Brian
@Bill Perdue: I am saying the world has changed and you should grow up. People can participate, provoke and inspire change without going to DC and “walking as a group.” Perhaps you can at least admit there there is no SUBSTANCE to this MARCH. If 20,000 LGBT people go to the Capitol and scream they are UPSET – this is news? This is something that will motivate people to change their minds (beliefs) about homosexuals?
The whole idea is just to raise money and maybe meet some new people. Isn’t that what Pride Parades are for? Don’t we already have those?
If people “react” to something and gather to protest IT HAS MEANING. To have a “March Without A Purpose” is just stupid. That’s why nobody is going. Well, Cleve is going – so he can pick up his check.
Joel
Ah no. I’ve been very active politically and in my local community for decades. But thanks for joining the chorus of illogic: that people who criticize the march are manning the barricades of apathy. If there is apathy, it is in the intellectual laziness of your quick cheap dodge of the real question(s) about the march.
Bill Perdue
@Brian: @Joel: All your whining accomplishes is to isolate you from the movement. Which is fine. While the march is going on feel free to go the DNC and cry your eyes out bleating and whimpering about it with Leah Daughtry.
The attempts by you, Joel and others to sabotage the march is like pissing into a hurricane. Combined, squared and squared again the lot of you lacks the weight, status and brains to do any serious damage to the march. Plus, well, somebody has to tell you, your whining is beyond boring.
Give up, You’ll never win this one.
The march will go on and be however big we can make it and will definitely take on the character of a LGBT assessment of Obama’s cold and deepening hostility towards us. Democrats will learn that we can be just as cold and hostile as they are. He and his shills might not like that but who gives a damn?
Don’t have a good day.
Joel
Oh no, we’ll be isolated from the movement! What is this, a cult, an AMWAY meeting, a high school clique, or a discussion about effective political organizing? The answer is pretty clear, since you’ve avoided–after a couple thousand words and many posts–to tell us precisely how this march will move anything anywhere. And in that, you sound like the leaders of the movement, congrats and enjoy the company.
schlukitz
It would seem from the discussion going on in this thread, that we have a great many people who are into financial spread buying.
They don’t buy any actual stocks, you see, which creates investment capital, opens up new plants, factories and retail outlets and creates employment for people, they just stand on the sidelines and bet on which way they think the market is going.
That’s not such a bad thing if they buy long which is betting on the market going up, which is what the actual buyers of stock are hoping for and benefits all parties concerned.
However, when a large number of people are buying short, which is betting on the market going down, they make money, but everyone else who is hoping that the market will succeed loses.
The important thing to note here whether the market goes up or down, the financial spread buyers haven’t really contributed anything. They are really nothing more than professional gamblers who stand at the craps tables with a drink at their side, tossing the dice in some nice, comfy, air-conditioned casino and hoping for an easy win.
They don’t want to inconvenience themselves or endure the cost and stress of a long trip, finding a place to stay and having to stand outside in the sultry heat or the freezing cold, get rained on and get booed and jeered by the homophobes who always show up at these events. How utterly old-fashioned and not with the times!
Again, it’s so much easier to stand on the sidelines, booing and hissing everyone who is willing to do without, make a sacrifice and participate in an event a long way from their homes and often under difficult circumstances.
To these “sidelines” gays, the Boston Tea Party must have seemed like falderal. By their rationality, a politely penned letter to the British could have prevented the American Revolutionary War.
M Shane
No. 51 · schlukitz No. 64 · Popsnip:
‘marriage’ in this case is more a fetish than it is a right. You aparently don’t have a logtt of history on your side or you would Know that the assimilation movement with it’s marriage corelary arrived on the scene as a reaction to guiolt about gay sex that came with the onslaught of HIV even though it was really a coincidence. The Gay Right Wing,in the unsavory persons of Andrew Sullivan and Bruce Bawer invented the idea thart we needed to make ourselves more appealing and like the straight people. All of the legalese about rights came secondarily as a tactic to make the issue seem legal .That is how this particular issue of rights came to be: Sullivan wrote an Article in the New Republic about the death of Gay Liberation: the point being that if we got married(had straight type monogamy) and joined the navy we would be acceptable.
I have I suspect been working longer at struggling and literally fighting for gay rights than either of you. I”ve been on the very bloody front lines of more demonstrations, so don’t tell me about courage or winning the gays a place in this world. I can pretty well guarantee that I’ve lost more jobs because I was open about my sexuality even when it wasn’t fashionable.
I have fought to have integrity long and hard enough to know that I would rather have my own kind of recognition, rather than aping heterosexual respectability.
As far as my parallels of this situation with Nazi germany, I’m not the first intelligent person to make that observation.
Don’t be naive or stupid about the politics of the U.S. If you havn’t read anything, I’m not about to elaborate the dangers of a Far right wing government with Fascist(religious) overtones. America voted Bush into office! It does us little good to enflame a large group of haters who become worse all the time when as with flowers a rose by any other name is not a peanut! They are the same people who hung black lovers and blacks a few year ago.
The best strategy ,unless you really want the fetish is to get civil partnerships. I think that people who want partners should get to try it. I just don’t think that getting marriage (as such)justifies taking back what progress some of us have made- I’m not afraid of being bashed because I would kill anyone,.You may be ok with it. I don’t care to lose more jobs, and I dispise that
people think that the title marriage is more important than kids growing up free of molestation by their teachers and peers.
I know how insensitive the law is to gay rights even if they are on the books and I don’t for a minute undersestimate the hatred which you seem to be immune from.
They say “keep your eye on the ball” I ‘m really not to sure that some of you know where it is.
Garth
Apathy is always an issue, but it has nothing to do with why people are not supporting this march. My reason for not supporting this march is simple, I do not see the point. Why is it that we have not had a march for the last 8 years when we had the worst president in history who didn’t even pay lip service to the BGLT community but now that we have a president that mentions his support in almost every speech, we have to have a march before he’s even been in office for 1 year? If the point is to influence congress, communicating with your senators and representatives is much more effective. If the point is to influence the citizens who are against marriage equality, a door to door or informational campaign would be more effective. Considering that the last March was also initiated and organized by self-selected leadership and not grassroots organized, it’s no wonder it was poorly attended and made no significant media impact save for all the scandals associated with it. See this article for more info: http://www.gaycitynews.com/articles/2009/07/29/gay_city_news/editors_latest/doc4a7066ff0c126824664162.txt
I believe the thing we need to do now is grassroots organizing on the most basic level. Remembering that it’s not who’s sponsoring the event that matters, but that we get everyone on board by any means necessary. Sometimes that means skipping the party and doing the boring detailed stuff.
hyhybt
Why do you insist that everyone who doesn’t think *this* march, at *this* time, is the right thing to do is apathetic, betting on the sidelines, etc.? Suppose we were all driving together from Atlanta to Los Angeles, and some folks insist we need to start off by heading for Boston. By your logic, it would be apathetic, counterproductive, whatever to say that, while you certainly *can* get there that way, the effort would be better spent heading west.
Joel
schlukitz is to be congratulated on his delusional fortitude. That’s another 318 words, all accusing any march doubter he’s never met of being a catatonic bystander, without a single word as to the tangible political yield of this long march (or, from the portrait of the organizing that has emerged, perhaps it will go down in history as the Thin Pink Line).
I risked my job to come out, created gay rights efforts, and helped many more. So with all due respect, shut the fuck up about the apathy, and get off your own sidelines and answer what this march is going to actually accomplish.
schlukitz
@M Shane:
I have I suspect been working longer at struggling and literally fighting for gay rights than either of you.
Then that would have to make you older than my 73 years of age!
Another of the many assumptions you continually make on these threads.
And please, spare me of the long rambling sermon on the mount about gay marriage. I’ve heard it all before. As to the reason for same-sex marriage? It’s all been said; hundreds of times before on these threads. Obviously, you haven’t been reading or you just suffer from a lack of comprehension.
I just don’t think that getting marriage (as such)justifies taking back what progress some of us have made-
Ah. That’s your real fear, isn’t it? The fact that some of us who have been doing without our rights for so long now, may just get some of the benefits you yourself have been enjoying as the result of others putting it all on the line for you, and are afraid of loosing.
It’s just NOT your problem, is it? Ask InExile what marriage means to him and his foreign born partner? He can tell you much better than I can and quite frankly, I am getting sick to death of telling my sad story to people like you, who are not in the least interested in hearing it or concerned enough to lift a fucking finger to help.
Given the “me generation” attitude you have been displaying on these threads, I would have to hazard a guess that you are still “wet behind the ears”.
And if you don’t understand what that means, you can look it up in your Funk and Wagnalls.
Joel
<– another 259 venomous words on the heap, nothing about the point of the March yet. Talk about intellectual apathy.
schlukitz
@Joel:
Crack some history books or do a few Googles and perhaps you’ll find out what past marches have accomplished.
I am not going to sit her flipping peanuts into your open mouth. Do your own research instead of continually telling other people to do the homework for you.
schlukitz
@Joel:
Re: your post no. 95: Read my lips.
DON’T GO TO THE MARCH!
Be assured. No one will ever will you.
schlukitz
Correction: No one will ever miss you.
schlukitz
@hyhybt:
Strawman argument. Nothing more than a red herring.
Joel
So you’re admitting if I show up or not, no real diff.
Honey, some of us knew that all along.
Brian
@schlukitz: It is VERY CLEAR from the range of comments that a few, old stuck-in-the-past so-called “activists” will be going to Washington to PROVE they can still MARCH… even though there is NO EVIDENCE that it will make a difference.
A few have called this March “civil disobedience,” to make it sound important. What part is of the plan is civil disobedience? Shouting? Clever signs expressing anger? Or will you actually be breaking into the White House? Stopping traffic on the Mall?
Nobody needs to waste money traveling to a vacated Capitol to express their disapproval of politicians – they already know and still don’t care. Proving you can form a group and even walk as a group won’t change anything.
If you have so much passion about an ineffective March – how about coming up with a plan for equality, rather than a March to Nowhere? How about some real strategy and some real substance?
Andrew
A few thousand old gay people marching in DC. Yeah, that’ll show em!
Popsnap
@M Shane:
Yes, I will admit that there are overtones of pre-Nazi germany in America today. There was a leader that was elected to restore the country, he didn’t live up to people’s expectations. Not to mention the rampant nationalism, anti-taxation, screaming & disruption at meetings.
However, you have to realize: the contenders for president in the GOP are Palin, Huckabee, Romney, and Gingrich. Palin will never ever win. Romney will draw the ire of fundies and liberals/moderates alike for his Mormon faith, and they’ll never vote for him. Gingrich is one I COULD see setting up a sort of “fascist” government in the USA, but he is far too right for anyone but the already nutty right to support. That leaves Huckabee, who will likely get the nomination for a 2012 run. He believes in Creationism, is anti-gay rights & anti-abortion, very traditionalist, an evangelical. For that he likely won’t win, either.
If Dennis Kucinich were nominated for president, I’d be overjoyed. But alas we’re going to get Obama again. Such a shame that his campaign was on hope and change and all we get is ridiculous spending & broken promises.
Jack Damn Right I'll Be There
@Brian “…old stuck-in-the-past so-called “activists” will be going to Washington to PROVE they can still MARCH… even though there is NO EVIDENCE that it will make a difference.”
What have you done lately to make a difference in the life of another LGBT person, besides yourself? Yes, I was at the March in 1993 and it did make a difference. Maybe not on a grand scale but as for your so called “evidence” it help shape the person I am today as well as many of those that were there who I still proudly call my friends. Sounds like your time as a bitter old queen is just around the corner. That is if you can still walk let alone march.
@Andrew. Ditto, your Bitter Queen crown awaits since your Lady in Waiting bit is wearing thin. Your competition is fierce and I doubt you’re even in the running.
It’s a march not a cataclysmic event designed to change the world in one day. It is about community, solidarity, concern for all and above all compassion for those that came before you that had the strength to do something besides being an ageist b*it*h.
M Shane
No. 101 · Brian; you’re right , real civil disobedience is all that has ever made a real difference to anything significant. If gay people aren’t willing to do battle they may as well quit because before so many causes are won there is often a price to be paid in bloodshed. Look at the rest of the world and history and see where change happened with people going on strolls.
No. 95 · Joel ; the killer of the gay movement and any meaningful political action anymore will be intellectual apathy. If you’re 73 or 18 and don’t know the lay of the land you’ve got no strategy or idea of where you’re going and you’ve lost before you started.
WillBFair
I’m sorry I weighed in on this. A second later, the polite crowd started with the insults and name calling, and the arrogant lie that anyone who disagrees is not really gay. They’re the same tactics they’ve always used. In the 80s, they called us anti gay when we begged them to rethink the F–k Everything That Moves strategy.
Maybe they should be called Auntie Gay for trying to sugar coat the community and silence anyone who disagrees.
Let them have their party. It’ll probably be tired. And there’s a more important fight going on now over healthcare. I just noticed it in passing, maybe because I’m one of those naysayers who can think of something besides myself for three seconds.
hephaestion
I live in DC. There is at LEAST one “huge nation-wide march” here every day. Every day of the year. And no one in power sees the signs of the marchers. No “regular people” see them either – unless you take them on the subway.
We need to be more creative about how to educate people, how to educate congressmen, and how to take a stand. Marches in every state capital across America would have much more impact. At least they’d be noticed. A march in DC, even with a million marchers, hardly even makes page B14 of the Washington Post.
hephaestion
Simultaneous marches on state capitals would:
1. Get more press coverage nationwide.
2. Be more affordable for people who come.
3. Require less time off from work.
4. Be a boon to local organizing.
5. Have MUCH more impact.
Bill Perdue
@hephaestion: “ The debate has never been about activists vs. sluggards or local vs. regional vs. national. It’s always been a fight by Obot Democrats to suppress the idea of mass actions that might injure their party and their ‘leader’. This march and succeeding ones locally and nationally will do exactly that. The March on Washington will be an anti-Obama rally and that’s why Obots, the DNC and rightwingers of all kinds are terrified of it.
That’s why they deserve our total support. What ever hurts Obama or his Republican junior partners in crime helps us. However it’s organized and promoted this and succeeding rallies are going to showcase the obdurate bigotry and contempt of Obama’s administration for the LGBT communities. They’ll help build the movement that will either force the Obama and the Democrats to accept our full agenda or get politically shoved aside by people who will.
Andrew
@Bill Perdue: This debate has been about “resources.” A National March is a waste of time, money and energy. Nobody has presented any argument that 25,000 gay people in DC will make a difference.
The Cleve March is Stupid. By the way Cleve, where’s the accounting? Why the secrecy?
Bill Perdue
@Andrew: Wrong.
The debate has only one issue: whether or not Obots and other right wingers can derail the movement and keep it dependent on the bigots who own and run the Democratic (sic) Party.
No one can ‘prove’ anything to opponents of the march who aren’t interested in a real discussion because their single-minded goal is to prevent the march from focusing our energies on compelling the bigots in the White House and Congress to support us or be replaced by people who will.
At this point opponents of the march represent nothing and no one. Their efforts to sabotage the march are laughable in the face of support for the march which is growing by leaps and bounds. They couldn’t have an impact on the march if their lives depended on it.
If it’s 25,000 or 250,000 it makes no difference at all. It’s a start on the road to political independence from Democrats and Republicans and that’s all that counts.
Leon Trotsky
Is the Bill Perdue on here the same former self-proclaimed head of an apparently one-man org called “Rainbow RED Organization”? You’re telling us what will work politically with the march, but last year you were all over the blogs commenting that we should support a socialist or communist candidate for prez. So, how’d that work out, Mary Marxist? You have the political instincts of a box of croquet balls. And the pics above of revolution in Algeria, please, spare us the RED drama. You keep dreamin’ for that scene out of “Reds” with you waving a flag from an old truck, roaring’ towards the Winter Palace, but hon’, this is America. A couple thousand guys in their well-pressed clothes ain’t bringin’ that, mmkay?
Bill Perdue
@Leon Trotsky: ^^^^ Good morning leland. Are you still bitter because Hillary is a has been? Try upping your meds.
^^^^Good morning mikie bedwell. The portrait of you and your lover is all I thought it would be.
[img]http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:VllJzedwc1GKtM:http://www.keywestaids.org/webquilts/cohn_roy/Cohn_Roy_Reuters_1954.jpg%5B/img%5D
Bill Perdue
@Leon Trotsky: ^^^^ Good morning. Are you still bitter because Hillary is now officially a bitter has been, just like you? Try upping your meds.
Mikie, this new portrait of you and your lover is quite revealing.
[img]http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:VllJzedwc1GKtM:http://www.keywestaids.org/webquilts/cohn_roy/Cohn_Roy_Reuters_1954.jpg%5B/img%5D
Leona Trotsky
OK Mr. Perdue, yes, all critics of the march are really just out to sabotage the event, motivated by a burning desire to protect Obama, Pelosi the DNC. None of us could ever have any legitimate doubts, questions or opposition to the march. Fits nicely with a politically adolescent “enemies of the people” theme, don’t it?
Andrew
@Bill Perdue: You still have NOT demonstrated HOW this silly march will accomplish anything. You sound like you must be on Cleve’s payroll.
Nobody cares about a March on Washington FOR ANY REASON. All you’ve done is a bunch of rambling about politics. For some reason you think people need to go to DC and let people know they’re upset. What makes you think they don’t already know that?
Even I hate to say it, but Brad Pitt’s comments about same-sex marriage have already had a much bigger impact than this silly March ever could. His message was carried by the media in a big way AND he had something “clever and smart” to say. the March will not create anything like that.
Unless you have a group of gays and lesbians headed to DC to burn down the City, nobody cares. It’s just a dumb idea.
Jiang Qing
I agree with Comrade Perdue. The march will be a glorious expression of the people’s struggle. Do not listen to imperialist doubters, who are running dog lackeys of the degenerate system. Expose saboteurs of the people’s glorious march, which will surely ignite the destruction of the existing two-party structure. It will because we have said so. Continue in the people’s struggle. The march will succeed in the same glorious manner as our call for people to make steel in their backyard.
jay
My family will be there. We watched as our right where taken away here in CA. It is time to stand up and say enoufe is enoufe. Please Please stop asking other people to suport us when we wont even make a stand for ourselfs.
DEPFOX
The Leffews
schlukitz
@Bill Perdue:
Good post, Bill. Save your energies for the march.
There is no need to “justify” the march or “prove” anything to the doubters and naysayers.
As you indicated, they are simply trying to derail the efforts of those of us who believe that what they are doing will make a difference.
Victories were never won by the naysayers.
They were won by the people who believed that they could make a difference…and did!
Joel
I doubt it’s a “good post” to smear any person who doubts the march’s tangible benefits as “Obamabots” or bitter Hillary supporters (contradiction right there), catatonic do-nothings, or enemies of LGBT liberation.
What nonsense. And it’s all more venomous gibberish that simply dodges a simple question: what will the tangible political benefits of this march be exactly?
And thanks, Schlukitz, for lecturing us on the need to believe we can make a difference. Again (and again), you refute a mindset that simply has not been articulated. Those doubting the march on here have not failed to advocate alternative tactics (and proven effective, esp. recently).
I do believe these different approaches “could make a difference.” How the march on Washington will? Remains to be articulated.
Andrew
On October 11, 2009 can somebody please volunteer to take a picture of Schulkitz, Bill Perdue and Cleve Jones. They should be easy to spot… standing alone on the West Mall around Noon time.
This Just In!
White House – A large crowd of gay and lesbians Marchers has formed on the West lawn and they seem to be upset. They have colorful signs and some disco music from the 80s.
We can’t see what is written on their signs because their group is behind the
Doctors & Nurses for Healthcare Reform March and the
National Homeless Foundation March and the
Save the Insurance Industry March and the
Save the Fat Bankers March and the
Is Oprah Really Gay March and the
Oh, wait I am sorry. Those other Marches are on the internet. The cameras set up here at the White House have the live images in the background. Wait we can see about 2 dozen people. This is amazing. This hasn’t happened in 15 years. People actually coming all the way to DC instead of using the phone or email or the internet. Gee, this is a really smart bunch.
This Just In!
@Joel: You asked: what will the tangible political benefits of this march be exactly?/i>
There are NONE.
Bill Perdue
@Jiang Qing: Good afternoon mikey.[img]uhttp://www.zpub.com/notes/hoover1.jpgndefined[/img]
Bill Perdue
@Jiang Qing: @Leona Trotsky: Hi mikey.
Hillary Clinton is finished in politics. Her open disgusting racism will never draw voters. She’s a pathetic has been and her own worst enemy. Just like you.
Even if Obama is rejected by voters and only gets one term she doesn’t stand a chance. It’s delusional even for a Dixiecrat lover like you to think so.
Bill Clinton is begging for forgiveness from the LGBT communities he betrayed time and again.
He won’t get it. Neither will you.
Hates One Man Politburos
I supported and voted for Obama in the primaries, didn’t like Hillary at all for prez, but all I can say is holy poop on melba toast to anyone saying a sitting Secretary of State is “finished in politics.” You totally dumb child: one of the very top cabinet spots, in early succession to the presidency, is a “finished” figure in the American political landscape? And what’s that got to do with this march? What, you’re gonna be marching against Hillary Clinton and her husband too?
If you’re an example of the brainpower supporting this march, that says a lot. What other cabinet members are “losers” in the game of Washington you obviously know so well? Get back to your one-person politburo, Perdue and jot down all this amazing political wisdom into a book, smallish, red cover. Marchers will really need to bone up on these gems to make the march all it can be.
Bill Perdue
@Hates One Man Politburos: Gibberish, little man. Stop lying.
You idols are finished.
So are you.
Have a great rest of your day.
And try no to bother the humans.
Papa Fidel
Smash the two party system, Comrade Perdue! We’ll all be waiting for your Commique from Pelosi’s office, after you have liberated it in the name of the People’s Soviet! I wish I could join you and your valiant army, nourished with field rations from Starbucks in Dupont Circle, and clothed in the glorious uniforms of A&F, well rested from the People’s Encampment No. 3 (J.W. Marriott off Penn. Ave.). The running dogs of the White House and DNC will surely quake in fear at your numbers, which shall be legion!
InExile
@Hates One Man Politburos: Too bad Hillary isn’t President, we wouldn’t have all these problems. We can only hope she resigns and runs in 2012 so we don’t have to live through another Bush era. Bill hates all things Clinton although now I bet he wishes he had supported Hillary. Like they say, hindsight is 20/20.
InExile
@Hates One Man Politburos: Oh, in case you are curious, I did not support Obama in the primary just the general. I wanted a candidate with experience, a good voting record as far as attendance/voting record and LGBT rights, someone with integrity, honesty, a straight forward approach, and the strength to get the job done and stand up to the religious right as well as the republicans. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20.
Bill Perdue
@Bill Perdue: Take those meds and have a nice sleep, old timer.
Maybe you’ll make sense if you’re medicated enough.
But I dooubt it.
Mousy Dung
Oh gee lookout everybody it’s the devastating “take your meds” comment attack. Not sure which is less original, that old chestnut, or “hey let’s march on Washington!”
Bill Perdue
@Mousy Dung:
You forgot to double the dose didn’t you.
Next time pay attention to your psych. When you have one of your little attacks double the dose. When you find yourself fixating on the Clintons, triple it.
Nighty night, mikey.
Joel
Must be too hard for march dreamers to confront the reality that your average cranky Wal Mart greeter shouting at a health care town hall meeting has more political clout than you.
And is more realistic about tactics.
mike
Dustin Lance will be there to perform some more bareback sex for us all. That’s the values we want to put on display at the march!
johnathan
@twstone:
money is tight for me to. i bought my tickets a couple of days after i heard about the event. my friend and i are traveling to DC and are excited to physically DO something to vent our frustration with our government. i really don’t understand how a flood of our community on the mall fails to capture the imagination of all these detractors.
it’s sad. if it’s a disaster as they say i’ll be inclined to be way more cautious about doing anything like this again. and if it goes well i’ll be ashamed of how so many in my community act when they sitting anonymously in front of their computers.
whatever, i hope my efforts help.
Mark
@johnathan: Save your money. Avoid this embarrassing so-called event.
Old Activist
Hey, if I call for a “National March for Equality” can I get a cute young personal assistant like Tanner Efinger? Yum.
Mark
Conference call this evening. Looking at “alternative dates” for the March. One idea was a “May Day” March. It seems the direction is now for a Spring 2010 event.
Mixner is calling the shots. Cleve is pissed. They discussed that it looks like only 20,000 might attend. It needs to be a million (Mixner) to show some strength. Cleve said “it’s not the number of people, but their conviction.” Mixner reminded Cleve that the media will comment about the number of people.
Financial questions are still being discussed. A new attorney was hired to help “sort it out”. Cleve has had more than $10,000 in expenses related to the March and they are trying to figure out how to categorize them.
I am not trying to hurt the idea to have a March, but this deal is a mess. They (Cleve and his boy-toys) are in way over their heads. Mixner is fixing it.
Shannon
Uhm… the vlogger in question has done some, uhm… racy videos (racy is an understatement) on xtube under the name ‘adamlikesapples’. Not to mention that he used to pretend on said site he was straight.
Just sayin’.
Miamian
im tired of marches its time people start fighting for what they want , every single minority on earth has never achieved anything thru apathy , while i dont endorse violence i do want a more agressive stance we need to stop sitting on our butts and force them to deal with the issue. if not we should stop paying our taxes since we are not equal among our own society. we need to set up a town hall meeting style meetings with gay communities. i call on you the media and those in connection with the correct parties to form more montly marches and speeches not this one a year migratory rhetorical b.s. if you want freedom you dont float to it you swim to it even against the current if not were all going to drown slowly. a march is innefective as the message is only refreshed into society once a year. i urge all parties involved to bunker down join forces and come up with a plan to deal with our issues on a more montly basis have more convention meetings etc. hell ill help if someone directs me as to how as i know have the time. if theres something worth fighting for its the freedom of those yet to be born.