Lawmakers in Tennessee just struck a low blow to marriage equality by banning anyone ordained online from officiating weddings.
As of July 1, only priests, rabbis, ministers, people designated through a temple or church, and public officials can perform weddings, courtesy of a totally unnecessary new law.
Critics of the law claim that it will unjustly affect LGBTQ couples who, by and large, have their weddings performed by friends and family members and outside churches in the state.
By prohibiting online ordination and forcing couples to seek out an ordained religious official, couples become subject to the beliefs of the religious institution, which may decline to perform a same-sex ceremony based on religious beliefs.
How about we take this to the next level?
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The Internet-based Universal Life Church has already filed a lawsuit opposing the statute.
Electrified over the passage of the law, a Seattle-based group known as American Marriage Ministries has set out to perform several mass ceremonies in the state, both to protest the statute, and to help protect the same-sex couples there.
“Even if you are, say, a mainstream evangelical Christian who’s got a minister, do you want your minister performing weddings for people that don’t share his values or beliefs?” Lewis King, a spokesperson for American Marriage Ministries said. “It just doesn’t make sense for anybody.”
A judge will hear arguments in the lawsuit over the law today.
Related: Gay Tennessee high schoolers attend prom together, homophobes be damned
Cam
When it is a choice between freedom of religion or bigotry and hate, right wing Christians will ALWAYS choose bigotry and hate.
ElPillo
These people are self-proclaimed and not true Christians
dwes09
Your comment is ridiculous. Anyone who claims to be Christian IS Christian. All they need do is believe that salvation is provided by the human sacrifice of Jesus. They can otherwise believe in slavery, that gay people are demons or whatever. If they believe their sins are forgiven because a rabbi was tortured to death 2000 years ago by the Romans, they are undeniably Christian.
TomG
So? Let Tennessee lose out on the money that would go to planners, caterers, etc. Get married in another state and let them benefit from the influx of money.
Brian
“By prohibiting online ordination and forcing couples to seek out an ordained religious official, couples become subject to the beliefs of the religious institution, which may decline to perform a same-sex ceremony based on religious beliefs.”
Except you also say in the article that public officials are an option, so clearly nobody is being forced into a religious ceremony.
Cam
However, if they wanted a religious ceremony and had to go to a public official because they couldn’t find an ordained minister to perform it, then they are being denied their religion.
Brian
Which has been true since the day same sex marriage went into effect. If religion is that important to somebody, they should already have their own minister and wouldn’t want someone ordained from the internet anyway.
I’m sure this law did go into effect to make it more difficult for same sex couples. My point was about Queerty making up a lie to make it seem worse than it is, especially when their own article disproves their lie.
DarkZephyr
Brian, you seem a LOT more pressed by Queerty’s wording than you do about what YOU admit is a homophobic act by Tennesee’s legislature. Why is that?
jkthsnk
How many public officials in TN do you think are actually an “option”? They’re all of a piece; there is no contradiction.
DavidIntl
I have to agree with Brian. When we overstate the case, we just lose credibility we need to fight the real battles. Is the intent of the Tennessee legislature to make things more difficult for gay couples to wed? Probably, at least in part. And I understand the concerns that this could be a slippery slope. But as long as there is the option of having a ceremony officiated by a public official, then no important rights are really effectively being denied.
Let’s collectively focus on the really important things – like the fact that there are places in the world where people are still being killed for being gay. Or that there are many places in the U.S. where there is still no protection from discrimination in employment.
Brian
Because I think the whole idea of online ordained ministers being able to perform weddings is a ridiculous charade in the first place. I would be fine if every state got rid of it.
Either let any Joe Blow perform the ceremony, or make the qualifications to do it more than just having an internet connection and a credit card.
Also, assuming this article I found from 2017 is correct, there are plenty of options when it comes to who can perform weddings in Tennessee. Notably, the article states that the issue of online ordainment goes back to 2006, and that people ordained online solely for the purpose of performing weddings were already prohibited from doing it. Since that was 6 years before same sex marriage became legal, I now retract my belief that this has anything to do with homophobia, and that it’s just a revision of a law or policy that’s been in effect for a long time already.
“The law in Tennessee states that “all regular ministers, preachers, pastors, priests, rabbis and other spiritual leaders of every religious belief, more than eighteen (18) years of age, having the care of souls” can solemnize a marriage. “Having the care of souls” became an issue in 2006 due to a rise in websites that will ordain applicants as ministers in a variety of different churches for a nominal fee. Tennessee chose not to recognize those ministers and require anyone solemnizing a wedding to have a congregation.
There are a number of politicians on the local level who can legally perform a wedding ceremony in Tennessee. Current and former members of county legislative bodies, any county clerk, current or former county executives and the mayors of towns and municipalities may solemnize weddings in Tennessee. These politicians used to be bound by law not to officiate ceremonies outside their jurisdiction, but a 1997 law allowed for local politicians to legally solemnize any ceremony in the state.
Tennessee also allows for a number of politicians who serve on the state level to solemnize wedding ceremonies. The governor, current and former speakers of the state house and state senate and current and former state chancellors are allowed to solemnize a wedding ceremony. The law also states that any compensation paid to a current government official, state or local, is viewed as personal income and does not get deposited into the general fund for the state.
Judges who serve on the local level, such as state judges and judges in general sessions courts, are allowed to solemnize a wedding ceremony under Tennessee state law. Federal judges, such as those who preside over bankruptcy courts and the U.S. Circuit Courts and Court of Appeals, can also solemnize a wedding if they are a resident of the state of Tennessee. Judges are not allowed to accept any compensation for performing the ceremony, unless it is a check made to a charitable organization of the judge’s choosing. Judges are prohibited from claiming that donation on their personal income
Brian
Also, that article is from a website called oureverydaylife and is titled Who Can Legally Perform a Wedding Ceremony in Tennessee?
gvobrien
I live in Tennessee, don’t fool yourself. The change was purely a slap on the face to the LGBTQ community. As far as State officials Officiating same-sex marriage, good luck. Most of them will not get involved because it’s against the religion especially if you live in a small county or small city.
Juanjo
Brian dear, you need to think this through more clearly. It is an interesting move by Tennessee. They seem to be violating the Constitution by choosing between what religious sects they will accept or not accept as far as performing marriages. They do not have the right to decide whose ordination is valid and whose is not. This is a ploy by Christian ministers to squeeze off the competition. Different sects do things differently. Some sects do not have ordained clergy. Mormons and some Protestant sects have no clergy at all but have lay members who perform all roles in the church. Baha’is have no clergy at all. Some Buddhist groups also have very limited clergy and so lay members in more remote locations operate as lay leaders with no ordination. Not to mention some Christian groups allow self ordination, the Independent Baptists are notorious for this practice. Not to mention, how does one define “having care of souls”? Does this mean a brick & mortar building with an established membership? How about the priest or monk who does not have such but rather teaches or works say in political or legal issues regarding homelessness etc? How about the missionary preaching in a town or city, like Paul the Apostle who would leave as soon as a group was established and head on to another site? How about those who have followers on the internet via Youtube etc? And how is it that a person offering to perform weddings for people is not “having care of souls”? All clergy charge for weddings, they might call it a “donation” but try and see what happens if you refuse to pay the donation or offer less than the demanded amount?
Not to mention, for many people seeking to be married, they choose a particular minister because that minister is willing to do a wedding in a particular location and manner chosen by the couple. Not all ministers are so accommodating in performing a wedding.
Many religious sects will only perform ceremonies following their own particular sect’s procedures and in their own facilities. The cost of doing so can be costly to many people. The cost for say a wedding in a church or synagogue can run from around 500.00 to 1500.00 depending on the facility. The minister or priest will want 250.00. An organist or other musician will cost you 250.00 to 300.00 and a soloist about the same. If it is high church like Catholic, Episcopal, or Lutheran the servers will cost you 50.00 each. It is not uncommon that a particular church will have a list of preferred vendors they “suggest” that you use for flowers, music, etc. I know one couple who was charged an additional 200.00 by the vocalist and organist because they wanted a specific song sung at the ceremony and not one of the songs in the repertoire offered by the vocalist and musician.
I was “ordained” some years ago and have performed a number of weddings for people. Not all were same-sex couples but most wanted a more secular ceremony.
Brian
So who was being slapped in 2006 when the issue of online ordainment first surfaced in Tennessee? From what I can see, what’s really being changed is that they used to allow online ordained ministers with a congregation to still do it, and now nobody ordained online can do it. But friends and family have not been allowed to do it the entire time same sex marriage has been legal in the state.
jsmu
Brian, dear, your quisling quibblings are asinine and in fact harmful. With friends like you, LGBTs need no enemies whatsoever. With all the hatemongering fascism whipped up at every turn by dRUMPf and Rapeublic*nts, you’ve got your panties in a bunch over Queerty’s WORDING? Beeyotch, PLEASE!
ShiningSex
IF YOU DON’T SEE THAT IT IS A FIRST STEP INTO PREVENTE LGBT PEOPLE FROM MARRYING THEN YOU’RE BLIND AS F*CK
ShiningSex
BRIAN IS A SELF LOATHING QUEEN. SHAME ON YOU USING THAT PROFILE PIC. IT’S A DIRECT CONTRADICTION OF YOUR IGNORANT, BLIND COMMENTS.
MikeM
Being legally able to as a public official and being willing to are two vastly different things. I’d rather have a friend who was ordained on the internet and who loves me than a public official who doesn’t know me at all. Some states also allow public officials to avoid performing the ceremonies due to religious or personal beliefs. Having the right to be married is meaningless if you can’t get the ceremony performed to begin with.
fur_hunter
Brian…..Regardless of what the others may say, you have made a very valid and perfectly good point. When will people understand that marriage IS NOT a religious event. The ‘religious-church’ fluff stuff is not happening till you get that piece of paper from the courthouse. And the words go. “And by the power vested in me and the State of Tennessee…..” or any other state. THAT proves that it is a ‘CIVIL’ event….a ‘LEGAL’ event. So, they can have the civil ceremony then go to a place and have a ‘fluff stuff’ event after the fact. Problem solved.
Brian
So you’re all going to ignore the fact that friends and family have NEVER been able to get ordained online to perform same sex marriages in the state and just insult me instead? I would expect nothing less from Queerty commenters. I’m just shocked nobody managed to work Fox News into their insults, you guys are getting sloppy.
JanDivine
So which atheist politician in Tennessee is going to start performing marriages?
JanDivine
So which atheist politician in Tennessee is going to start performing marriages?
Mack
As a former Deputy Commissioner of Civil Marriages in Nv, the problems I see with this is 1) the right wing religious groups won’t perform same sex marriages; 2) the “City, county, State Officials” can limit their hours to perform marriages which in most cases they have because they only work MON-FRI which if a same-sex couple wants a weekend ceremony they’re out of luck. I know since I left my position, they now have the ceremonies in my county M-F 8-5 BY APPOINTMENTS ONLY. Whereas before we were opened 9-6 seven days a week.
I suggest taking your ceremony to another state and deprive the state of monies from marriages. This is my home state and I absolutely refuse to go back there because of their racism and bigotry.
fur_hunter
Mack…….You made a very good point. Something else would be to have the civil ceremony on a weekday and the ‘fluff stuff’ on the weekend if that was desired. Also, Kudos to you for taking a stand.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
Can one of these vile right wing abhorrent smcubags PLEASE give ONE REASON how two people in a committed loving relationship wishing to be married has ANY negative effect or affect on them???
I simply can’t process how these cretians can be so consumed by hatred they obseess in such a vile twisted manner on all things Gay….
fur_hunter
HEY……Are you the same ‘Plays Well With Others’ that makes comments on Joe My God website? Just curious…….Thornton
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
Fur: occasionally.
Mikey E
Very likely this will be struck down as unconstitutional under the Equal Protection Clause, as it favors certain denominations over others.
Another marriage story that no one has covered is in Nevada. The state is actually going to have a popular vote on gay marriage in November 2020. The proposal would remove the anti-gay marriage amendment passed in 2002 and replace it with language explicitly affirming the right of people to marry regardless of gender. This may turn out to be a major battle, but there is virtually no coverage of it outside of Nevada media.
Kangol2
It’s going to pass.
maddog
>make the qualifications to do it more than just having an internet connection and a credit card.
Actually, when I became and ordained minister of the ULC about 30 years ago you only needed the Internet connection. The registration was free (and I think it still is free).
To become a Justice of the Peace in New Hampshire is fairly easy. You find two other JPs that vouch for your integrity and you pay your money. Then every so often you renew. There are so many JPs (and some in registries) that you can easily find one that will be willing to perform the ceremony on any day.
But if you go back to the actual meaning of what is being done, the officiant is only a witness to the vows. I would actually like the Washington D.C. model better, but it would cut into my five USD revenues.
In New Hampshire there is no residency requirement, no waiting period between getting the license and getting married. If you are wed in New Hampshire you are “married everywhere”. The town clerks do not even blink.
Same-sex couples of Tennessee, come on up! Get married here! Have your fabulously expensive receptions here! Honeymoon here! Spend your money here!
Brian
Heh, I stand corrected. But I assume some websites do charge for it.
fur_hunter
All this ignorance, intolerance and bigotry will eventually be struck down by the higher courts. It is just going to take TIME!!!. HEY……it took 46 YEARS from Stonewall for marriage to be legal. I was 24 then and thought I would never live long enough to see it happen. So. Did you really think it was going to be a smooth road after that? If you did, you are a MORON. The Wheels of Progress are moving…..BUT…..They are moving VERY SLOWLY! Get it? Nothing good is gained easily. Remember that.
TomG
So? Let Tennessee lose out on the money that would go to planners, caterers, etc. Get married in another state and let them benefit from the influx of money.
BStewart27
I don’t get why a wedding needs a ceremony or officiant in the first place, and the required ordination seems to violate separation of church and state. Oh, and how can this possibly be enforced? If Brenda and Edie bring me their license, I will just sign it.
GentlemanCaller
And this is why–for the only time in memory–I agree with Chief Justice Roberts in the gerrymandering case, when he said “The Framers also gave Congress the power to do something about partisan gerrymandering in the Elections Clause. That avenue for reform established by the Framers,
and used by Congress in the past, remains open.” We need to STOP looking to the courts for justice, and demand our lawmakers make marriage equality a federal law. It’s much harder to overturn a federal law than it is for a court to decide Obergefell is just “bad precedent” and go back to states-rights. This Tennessee nonsense is just another piece of the right’s ability to chip away at a judicial decision; it would be tougher to chip away at an act of Congress.
Chipper
Brain, with you around, who needs enemies. They put the law into effect so they can control gay marriage. Plain and simple. Its a shame you and their hate is showing. Shame on you for upholding their bigotry. You and the guy in DC who I guess is possibly taken over for the Liar Sarah Sanders, is just as much a liar as she and the thing that occupies the white house. You know the one married to the nude model.
GayEGO
These are not lawmakers, these are bigotmakers. They need to be disbarred!