Is kicking the shit out of school bullies the answer to fighting intolerance? UPI:
A small Canadian town in southern Ontario is divided over charges against an Asian immigrant youth who responded to a bully’s punch with one of his own.
The confrontation occurred April 21 in Keswick, 40 miles north of Toronto, between two 15-year-old boys during a game in the high school gymnasium. Neither boy can be identified, The Globe and Mail said.
One student who immigrated to Canada from South Korea in 2004 told police a white student shoved him, called him an “(expletive) Chinese” and hit him in the mouth. The Korean youth had been trained in martial arts by his father, a former member of South Korea’s national martial arts team. The youth told police he had been trained to only hit back with his left hand and, with one punch, broke the other youth’s nose, the Globe reported.
Now the South Korean boy faces assault charges and possible expulsion. Except, get this: Police have re-opened the investigation, and are weighing whether to charge the first boy with a hate crime. This comes after some 400 students at the school, mostly white, walked out in protest of punishing the Korean boy.
For all the talk we’ve had about bullying in school and ways to solve the problem, “physically fighting back” didn’t make our list. Should it?
Tarcash
Self defense.
Captain Freedom
See, this is why I’m pro 2nd Amendment. I think every gay person in America and Canada should own a gun. The rednecks and religious fascists are striking back with force and lethal attacks because they can’t tolerate change. We need to be prepared.
It really bugs me sometimes how some liberals get so drawn up in ideology that they never hear the needs of their own coalitions.
As for this boy? He deserves a gold medal! Breaking a bully’s nose with one punch? Job well done sir! He should get a gold medal in martial arts and school recognition for his heroic deed.
burton21
It would seem from the bully’s use of racially charged language right before he attacked the Korean student that it was motivated by some sort of bias against his race. I don’t have a deep grasp on the hate crimes statute, so I’m unsure of whether or not this qualifies. Certainly makes the bully sound like a dick though.
As for the “victim,” well… you go Glen Coco. If he’s expelled or charged with anything, it will be a travesty and a gross miscarriage of justice.
Wild Gift
Absolutely!
ajax
mmmmmpppppppphhhhhhhhhh. I abhor this.
If someone is beating the s**t out of you, you should return the favor in spades. If a jerk punches you once I don’t think an evolved, mature response is to punch back. However, I find no fault with this young man’s response. He should not face assault charges. The bully should face assault, battery, and hate crime charges AND be expelled.
Anthony
ALL bullies are cowards! Phisically hitting back is the quickest and easiest way to stop them. Violence isn’t nice but is sometimes necessary.
rogue dandelion
maybe this all worked itself out for the best? maybe know charges need to be brought at all? i mean if the bully tries some shit again, he can just break his jaw again- I think that is fair.
Bad Touch Football
Damn right fighting back should be an answer. Please understand however that I do not condone violence in the first place, but, should violence come to me, I am certain that the violence with end with me.
The attitudes being taught to the youth of today are morally sound, but don’t really cover how to deal with someone who rejects these values. “Violence isn’t the answer” can translate to “don’t fight back”, a statement that is WRONG in every sense of the word. Making a stand for what you believe in means more than just a lack of bullying in the school yard. Fighting back is why gays and lesbians and blacks and asians and women have made the progress that they have – fighting against the oppression that was placed upon them. They fought, and they still fight, and they are winning.
Captain Freedom – giving people guns will only intensify the problem. I we are given guns, then the oppressors either will go out and also get guns, or with the dynamic shift in power, the gays will become the oppressors.
AJAX – though I realize the severity of the crimes involved here, what do you think the root cause of said crime is? My guess is lack of proper education. Expelling him is a bit harsh, and even assault charges will be hard to get to stick, as they are both minors. The bully got his nose broken by his victim, and has to walk around school in front of everyone else with a pair o black eyes. Parade him in front of the school, have them laugh at him, and send him to the counselor
Craig
Charges are just that: charges. Its not a conviction. A serious incident happened at a school and it must be investigated by the authorities. What is out of line with that? Why is everyone assuming that the kid has already been kicked out of school and sent to juvie?
@Captain Freedom – guns, eh? Then, someone would be dead and we’d be debating if the shooter should be tried as an adult. Much better.
demonW
YEAH…
FAGS BASH BACK!!!
Watch out, meanie-wienies
jake
Yes, I support self-defense FULLY.
kevin (not that one)
I think it’s stupid that any kid should have to defend himself from violence while at school. Yeah, I know…dreaming. I certainly got in a few fights in school – none of them ended very well for me.
But ultimately, school administrators have a responsibility to protect vulnerable students from violence and intimidation. We live in a culture where it’s acceptable for people to solve their problems with violence, which only leads to an escalation of violence and then we have kids bringing guns to school.
Imagine an alternative situation: the boy who got hit got witnesses and called the police on his cell phone. The boy ended up pressing charges against his attacker. The boy also sued the school for violating his civil rights. The boy was able to force the school to adopt a safety and anti-bully ordinance.
Instead, a counter-punch achieved what? Getting him expelled?
In a civilized society, we use the law and political power to get retribution. In the absence of that, we have chaos and vigilanteism. That’s what we have in Iraq and Afghanistan – not really a world I want to live in.
...
I think it’s ridiculous to call the police in for every schoolyard brawl.
Alex Sarmiento
I wish that I had fought back harder when I was being bullied in elementary, middle, and high schools. I wish that someone had taught me krav maga, taekwondo, karate, or kung fu so I could beat the shit out of all those motherfuckers (including girls, who in many cases were just as horrible to me as other boys were – I am not a misogynist, by the way) who harassed me. I wouldn’t give a shit if they put me in juvenile hall. Bullies deserve to have their asses kicked big time. Maybe people like Carrie Prejean, Maggie Gallagher, Ann Coulter, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Dubya, Sarah Palin, Eminem, and Michelle Malkin should have the fucking shit beaten out of them like the bitches that they are.
tropos
Too bad the Korean-Canadian kid didn’t break the racist’s arms too!
If only we all knew to hit back, there would be far fewer cases of hate crimes.
D-Sun
No, no, no, he should have just sat back and allowed the other guy to beat him senseless. That always solves the problem.
Bill Perdue
@demonW: Exactly!
tarheel1023
one punch should have been followed by mutli karate blows (no pun intended :-)).
We should all learn karate so we can defend ourselves from scum like that.
strumpetwindsock
Two things…
This was a racial incident. There was no mention of the Korean student being gay (he may be, but that had nothing to do with the incident).
The parents of the kid whose nose was broken declined an interview with CBC.
The father of the Korean kid (who was interviewed, with his son) said he now fears for the child’s safety.
@Captain Freedom:
And keep your fucking guns south of the border. The smuggled ones are killing enough people in Toronto as it is.
Luke
@@Bad Touch Football: Seriously escalation? Guns become missiles? Most people who resort to crime and bullying do so because they believe they will be safe and able to intimidate their target. Only hardened criminals with some sort of major backing will ever escalate like that…I carry a firearm from time to time and it doesn’t cause escalation where I am.
@kevin (not that one): Really? Call in the police after one punch? So the bully was going to stop for a phone break? One hit lands, then the second, then a couple kicks. Immediate physical threat should always be met with greater and more destructive force or fleeing. Fleeing only to be used when you can’t decimate your enemy. Never run when you can defend yourself.
Ray
I think that hitting back with a single punch was a fair reaction and within the bounds of being categorised as self-defence.
If he had used a weapon or hit the bully many times then it would be an overreaction and he should have been charged for it. Violence rarely solves a problem, it merely ups the ante in many cases.
The police clearly had to be called as one person required treatment for a broken nose but by charging the Korean boy they would have to charge the bully for fighting and instigation too(as I believe they do in ice hockey).
The most positive thing about this story is the sheer overwhelming support of his fellow students in his response to the attack upon him. I doubt that he or many others will be bullied at that school for a while.
burton21
@strumpetwindsock: Um… you were the first one to bring up the possibility of him being gay. Which no story mentions.
Roy Pyatt
When I was a young man in Texas my friends and I used to say we bash back and we did. So good for those who will not stand by and be assaulted with out fighting back.
Puck
It sucks that the kid was put into the position requiring him to hit back. It’s great that his fellow students are supporting him now, but where were they when he was getting bullied. Violence in schools though should not be tolerated, he warranted an in school suspension for his actions. The other boy should be expelled.
@Captain Freedom: Umm canada doesn’t have second amendment rights were canadian, not american. Our rights also covers freedom of expression instead of freedom of speech. Also as someone who has seen what bullet does to the human body. Hell no, I support banning handguns save for sporting, police, military, rural area(backcountry and until your outside city limits keep it locked up in a gun safe) and licensed protection purposes.
TANK
Is physical violence justified in self defense? Of course. Why? Because one has a right to protect oneself from harm or further harm when one is threatened or harmed, when safeguards fail to protect oneself.
Obviously, there are limits to this, but I don’t consider hitting back after being assaulted and called a racial epithet (perhaps to avoid further injury and insult) is not justified. Simply reporting the assault and bigoted comment may not be adequate in preventing immediate harm, and often isn’t.
Jon B
Fighting back only works if you win the fight. I saw we start a campaign to have all gay youth, and gays in general, take martial arts training. It would be fun. A whole bunch of pink-clad ninjas.
Attmay
This kid is a hero. I was bullied in school and whenever I tried to fight back, the idiot school board always blamed me.
I agree with Captain Freedom that if every gay man and woman were armed, this wouldn’t happen. If you don’t like guns, carry a Swiss army knife or take a martial arts class. Just do something and fight back!
tavdy79
Never start a fight.
Always finish it.
strumpetwindsock
@burton21:
Not so…
#10 mentions it. Hard to know if she was referring to the story or speaking generally though. That’s why I pointed it out.
The kid might be gay. Who knows?
sal
but the asian kid was the one who was called the horrible words,why is he being charged 4 hate crime??
strumpetwindsock
@sal:
No he’s been charged with assault.
They’re considering charges (inlcuding hate charges) against the other boy.
sal
@strumpetwindsock: ohhhhh,my bad.thankzz
geoff
Violence is never the answer….except when it is. Good for the kid who fought back. There would be a lot less gay bashing if bashers found out it was the least safe thing they could do.
Alex
How things have changed! I have been in one fight all my life. March 1982. I was in grade eight, was a bit of a wimp, and there was one guy at school who was always teasing me. One day he went a bit too far and shoved me in the face — hitting me right on the braces. With my inner lip cut slightly, I literally saw red. I landed one punch on his face — knocked him out cold for about five minutes (no broken bones, thank God). This happened just before class, so everyone saw it. After investigating the whole thing the principal, an old man of the old Canadian school, concluded I was perfectly justified, but the other guy’s punishment was the knockout. It was smoothed over with the parents; afterwards I was given respect — and got some self-respect, too.
What would have happened today? Expulsion and/or charges, probably. The public schools are CREATING a culture of snitching wimps — and bullies.
In my little incident there wasn’t even a racial angle. God, I feel for the poor Korean kid.
And his principal, I am sorry, just doesn’t sound like much of a man to me.
Fighting is not good, but there are things worse than fighting.
And guns are a weapon for bullies of a totally criminal nature. Yankee, go home.
mb00
It absolutely should be justifiable to fight back. Bully’s need to be the bullied and have their little asses handed back to them.
I’m glad that young boy fought back and busted that little assholes nose. Good for him. Enough is enough. Fighting back is the only way to take there power away.
vernonvanderbilt
(Un?)Fortunately I have never been in an actual fight. There have been plenty of times when it came close, but considering I’ve been large and intimidating since about 6th grade, most people rethink messing with me when I step up ready to go. Not to say I haven’t had some semi-frightening close calls; I have stared down the barrel of a gun in a Denny’s parking lot at 3 AM. To this day I’m still amazed that my response was laughter. I guess nerves make us do some crazy shit. Then again, I wasn’t shot, so it apparently worked.
However, if I ever found myself in a situation where I believed my well-being or my life were in danger, I wouldn’t think twice about going down fighting. Not only that, but I would never show mercy in such a situation. I would make an example out of anyone who wanted to bash me. And if I lost…well, believe me, they’d still think twice about trying it in the future. I have no shame. I have no qualms about fighting dirty. I will bite, scratch, gouge eyes, grab the groin and see how much juice I can squeeze out of it…and I think every GLBT individual should be prepared to do the very same if necessary. If they want to bash us, make them pay for it with blood and scars. Give them something to look at every day for the rest of their lives, something that will say to them “see what you get when you tangle with the queers?”
And yes, for crying out loud, whatever weapons are legal for you to carry in your particular area, give some serious consideration to doing so. Unless you’re hopelessly outnumbered, physically disabled, or a legitimate wimp, there’s no excuse for leaving an attacker undamaged in some capacity.
We are targeted because people believe that we don’t (or can’t) fight back. How about more of us take it upon ourselves to shatter that stereotype? I don’t want more stories about my GLBT brothers and sisters being hospitalized. I want to hear about would-be bashers taking their place in the emergency rooms of the nation.
Take a self defense course. Get a gun license. Hell, watch some MMA or pro wrestling and take notes. Whatever it takes. Make a committment today, right now, this very second: vow that you will not become a victim. We all have a hero within ourselves. Decide to be one if the time comes.
HYHYBT
If I remember rightly, all the schools around here will kick you out for hitting back.
geoff
@vernonvanderbilt: I wish Illinois passes a concealed carry law. I can have a handgun where I live but in Chicago, no one but the criminals can. If bashers knew they were likely to get shot, they might think twice, since basically they are closeted cowards.
geoff
@vernonvanderbilt: Thank you for that. I absolutely agree. If people want to bash us they should realize it’s the most dangerous thing they can do.
Phoenix (Ya' Wanna Piece Of Me? Do ya'?)
@ No. 28 · tavdy79,
That was my motto in school. Starting in the 5th grade I got harassed plenty (when I wasn’t being ostracized). I wouldn’t call it bullying because #1 I wasn’t afraid of them and #2 I could kick their butts if necessary (my parents insisted I take self-defense classes at an early age due to “stranger danger”). The only (useless) advice and help I received from my parents was “They’re trying to get a rise out of you. If you ignore them they’ll get bored and stop.” WRONG!!! It only got worse and worse until I finally snapped and beat the living shit out of three of the little assholes (at the same time no less!) and every time after that if anyone pulled any shit with me they got taken to the ground. Tolerating bullying only gets you more bullying.
Lucius Accius Telephus: “Let them hate, so long as they fear.”
Seriously though, what happened to this Asian kid sounds like something that happens in the schools where I live now. If a victim fights back or even puts their arm up to block a punch, they’re expelled. The school admin expects the victim to lay there on the ground and let the bully kick the shit out of them, if they fight back in any way they’re expelled. The bully gets a 2 day suspension. The school administration’s rationale: “If they fight back it will only escalate!” Sound familiar?
strumpetwindsock
@Alex:
Do you know what changed?
Columbine happened… plus a string of other shoot-em-ups, several committed by bullied victims who snapped. We have had them here in Canada too (though with rifles, I don’t think any of those kids managed to get ahold of handguns).
There was actually a bullied kid in our province who used a fake handgun two years ago to hold his school hostage. Lucky he didn’t get himself shot (a recent news piece showed that even many cops cannot tell the difference between a real and a fake gun just by looking at it).
THAT is why there has been a move toward zero tolerance.
It’s also why (not directed to you now, Alex) the suggestion we should arm ourselves to the teeth for protection is completely fucking whacked.
Pro-gun Americans are free to have your opinions (god help us if we ever said you SHOULDN’T), but you should realize that you’re are living alone in a dark bubble.
No other developed nation that is free from civil disorder has such a dependence on guns as your nation. No European nation does; most police in England still do not carry guns. Even Switzerland, with a mass-militia (requiring everyone to keep a handgun in their homes in some Cantons) does not have the same fear and fascination with guns as the U.S.
We certainly would not have the handgun problem we have in major cities up here if it were not for the illegal flow of weapons from the U.S. over our border; tell THAT to your Homeland Security Secretary who blames us for your terrorism.
How a story about a schoolyard brawl got turned into a call for more guns I don’t know (surely you aren’t calling for students to be armed). You can spend all day shooting at each other if you want, but before you assume it’s the only option maybe you should look at other countries and think about why things are the way they are in yours.
WIMP, HERE
I was and still am a wimp. It agonizes me everytime I am verbally abused. I was never physically assaulted primarily because I never let it escalate to that level. I just ignore the words like I didn’t hear the taunts and the slurs. I suspect I became such a wimp because I was always mistreated for being feminine and, somehow, my shame broke my pride and self-esteem. I grew up thinking I deserved it because of who I am. So anytime I hear someone punched the assaulters back, I wish I had that courage myself. Way to go my Korean Hero! You are fighting for every down-trodden youngster who felt too weak to fight! And as someone already mentioned here, the cunts were equally as bad the guys–sometimes worse!
Scott S
I think they should both recieve pretty equal punishment. A hate crime? thats rediculous.
Wendy
Let’s have some clarity. The Asian boy did NOT ‘beat the shit’ out of his tormentor. He struck him ONCE, clearly in self-defense. The fact that he got in trouble is outrageous.
According to Adam Blum, creator of “The Total Bully Solution”, if a person can fight back, it is their moral duty to do so. 1-there is no virtue in being a willing victim 2- doing nothing is tacit approval of unaccaptable behavior 3- the next person who gets abused might not be able to fight back 4- crushing a bully down teaches him that there are consequences for actions… and picking on other people isn’t so smart.
Is force the only way to handle a bully? Of course not. (The Total Bully Solution provides numerous non-violent, psychological stratagies). Sometimes, though, you can’t walk away.
cutiepie-15
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a
That kid deserved to have his nose broken, I don’t think the kid should be punished.
bully hater
@Scott S:
You’re a big fat liar for typing that they should both punished. Hell, you’re an example of self-righteous pacifist who’s against self-defense. Put yourself in the victim’s shoes. How would you feel if you were bullied too much?
The bully deserved to get punched. Punishing self-defense is just as bullying. If you punish for defending, you ought to be punished.
One of the biggest problems in society is that certain authorities seem to reward bullying and punish defending against villainy.
You’re pacifism sickens me. I’m no pacifist and I never will be because I feel that pacifism’s for hypocrites.
bully hater
@D-Sun:
Are you serious? You must be living on another planet if you think and claim that letting bullies beat their victims senseless, which you are, is the right thing to do.
How can you possibly suggest that letting your enemies walk all over you is the answer? Are you really blind?
Let’s say I bully the crud out of you all your life. Would you enjoy that?
You’re a narrow-minded and delirious loon who thinks that letting people terrorize other people is acceptable. If that’s true (which it isn’t and never will be), there would be lots of chaos in life and nothing would ever get done.
By letting bullies do whatever they want, you’re just giving them right to treat you as objects instead of humans.
I’m warning you that if you give others the advice that you typed here and they took it, you could be in big trouble especially with their parents and the law.