If Equality Network keeps up this line of messaging, it just might generate some dolla dolla bills. The non-“hierarchical” organization formed after Prop 8 passed is hoping to attract some folks to a fundraiser in Los Angeles on Wednesday by going after another gay activist organization where it hurts. In an email sent out to supporters, EN co-founder David Comfort makes clear how his organization is not one of the establishment big boys on the block — as a reason you should support it.
“Equality Network is not Equality California,” writes Comfort. “We cannot hire caterers and have black tie dinners, charge $350 a plate, and slap ourselves on the back for a job well-done. We’ve been out in the streets, meeting at Starbucks, and in the trenches fighting the good fight.”
Oh snap! Them’s some fighting words.
But if you’ve been following along at home, you’ll know Comfort isn’t a stranger to taking on the big guns. Last month he raged against organizers of the San Bernadino “leadership summit” that was one part civilized debate, seventeen parts chaos.
So why not keep the fun ball rolling?
Comfort’s full email follows.
Chance
So how are these guys different? They’re still throwing parties for equality. They’re just cheaper parties.
And the goal? What will they be doing with the cash? Sending their people to the March on Washington. Wow.
Well they won’t be getting my money. I don’t want anyone to be that lonely.
Mark C.
Interesting approach. It makes sense. People are tired of the HRC charade and the GLAAD-handing “gay-rights-pimps.” They don’t have a strategy to “win,” and they are just making a living.
I appreciate people getting angry and inspired, but we need a strategy to win or we’ll keep wasting money.
They don’t need to send a “contingent to Washington” for Cleve’s pity-parade, it’s been cancelled. They’re going to start a “school” for activists. The tuition should be enough to keep Cleve in his Palm Springs condo.
Brian
How much do activi$ts make? I like parties.
Joe
I know some things about David Comfort that would make him very very uncomfortable…
mattymatt
I’m looking forward to when we can all be on the same side again.
Brian
@mattymatt: Then come up with a good “idea” that will unite us. People are tired of the same old thing. Big parties. Little parties. Marching around without a purpose.
We need a strategy to WIN equality. HRC and GLAAD and LMABDA and the dozens of others in Gay, Inc. DO NOT have a strategy to win. In business THAT is the first thing we do. Why does Gay Inc. – Activist crowd NOT have a strategy. They just keep taking money and we get nowhere.
The Cleve-Dustin National Equality March was cancelled for exactly that reason – uninspiring and ineffective. Let’s March AFTER we WIN.
Trooper
The National Equality March in Washington DC will take place this October as scheduled. Not sure why this poster continues to announce that it’s cancelled. It’s not.
http://www.nationalequalitymarch.com
And I’m glad someone’s taking a swipe at EQCA. They need to know that they’re not the be all and end all in the California LGBT world anymore.
Sam
@Brian: If all you whiners are really tired of parties, then you should get off your asses and do something. I don’t know about EQCA, but here in New York the Empire State Pride Agenda is always trying to get volunteers to do phone banking and other political organizing work. It’s free, they feed you and yet they’re lucky if they get ten people willing to come into their office and do it. But if they hold a party – which they do, once a year – they get a thousand gays ready to pay hundreds of dollars to attend.
You can bash the parties all you want, but until the community actually starts showing up to volunteer and get the work done instead of see, be seen and get drunk, it rings completely hollow.
mattymatt
@Brian: Yes, I agree that uniting behind an idea would be A Very Good Thing for the gays. What would be nice is if we had one single strategy that is 100% agreeable to every single gay person, ever. I don’t think that’s ever going to happen, though.
When I look back at all the problems with the Prop 8 campaign, and then all of the infighting that followed, one thing that I do not think is, “gosh, this would be have been more successful if only we’d done more bickering and cooperated with each other less.”
Sam
@Brian: P.S. Yeah, no strategy whatsoever. That’s why in the last five years we’ve gone from no states with same-sex marriage to six. I’m sure that took no strategy or effort at ALL.
Why haven’t you damn organizations fixed everything yet? It’s not like Focus on the Family is ten times your size or anything…
TANK
PILLOW FIGHT!
TANK
@Joe:
hair club for men membership? Old news.
SM
You can always go see what they have to say on Sunday.
http://coalitiontorepeal8.eventbrite.com/
Cbus Chris
Complaining about how things are done without taking action is just bitching. I would be willing to bet the people that complain the most are the first to skip an activist event because they were “too busy” but somehow weren’t too busy to make it to the club that night.
We just need to start throwing pre-game parties before the activist events. They’d be packed.
getreal
The difference is this time there will be a coalition of organizations designing the campaign not one large organization sending down a directive. The last campaign did zero outreach to the general straight community, communities of faith and color, and the elderly. It is easy for the do nothings to sit on threads and cackle “what’s the difference”? If you got off your barstool and got into activism maybe you would find out.
mattymatt
@getreal: As a point of fact, the last campaign did in fact attempt to reach out to straight people — their first TV ad, featuring the two women in a kitchen, was designed for straight viewers. And their last ad, the one with Samuel L Jackson, made direct reference to communities of color. Of course, the ads weren’t as effective as they might’ve been; but that’s a different kind of failure than not even bothering to try.
Anyway, yes, I agree with many of the previous posters that it’s far easier to complain than to take action. I hope lots of people commit to attending the meeting on Sunday, and to working on solutions instead of grumbling, and on finding compromise instead of insisting on getting their way all the time.
I’m hundreds of miles away in San Francisco, but I’ll be following the news this weekend and reporting whatever comes out of the meeting at Stop8.org.
Mark Snyder
Looks like another wealthy white man trying to start an “organization” in LA. womp womp.
mattymatt
@Mark Snyder: Yes indeed! Old Moneybags Comfort, that’s what we call David. Him and his millions! He made his fortune by being a white person, you know.
Now, what’s this about a pillow fight?
Brian
Yes, the March for Equality has been cancelled, they’ll tell you soon.
Regarding having a strategy to win – NO group involved in the Prop 8 battle had a winning strategy EXCEPT the MORMONS. They had a plan to “win.” All of our gay groups had plans to complain, demand and cry – but none had a winning strategy.
We can figure out how to win this, we just haven’t. Because a few States now have Court-ordered civil unions doesn’t make us “equal.” We will be Equal when we are not HATED. That’s the thing we should be focused on, not lobbying politicians or policing media references to homosexuals. While these activities may serve a purpose, they don’t change anything about the “hatred” of homosexuals.
Some idea, strategy and plan to end the “hate” of homosexuals would inspire a lot of participation. It is the only path to equality. If we weren’t hated, we would be just like everyone else.
End the HATE. Where are the ideas?
getreal
@mattymatt I don’t know if you are an activist but two commercials that barely ran is not outreach to a community. The strategy of the campaign was to ignore communities of faith and color and focus on republican women in metropolitan areas that is where the bulk of the money,phone-banking,canvassing, and organizing went.A very expensive consultant was hired and that was the horrendous strategy they went with. There was a tremendous amount of money spent putting all our eggs in one basket and people are angry about it. People are looking for new leadership because people feel Equality Ca. dropped the ball (right or wrong) and don’t want another entitled zenophobic campaign we cannot afford it.
@Mark Snyder: If I were you I would check myself your racism is showing and it’s disgusting.
getreal
@Brian: Every major organization had planning meetings and events all over Ca. this past weekend people are coming up with ideas you just won’t hear them unless you get off your couch and do something. What are you going to be doing for the movement this next weekend except flapping your gums?
Brian
@Sam: Most of those States are in the process of being “voted back to inequality.” See, the majority of voters hate homosexuals and when they are heard (like California) we lose. So, Courts and legislatures can provide a temporary victory, but eventually the people get their way. Their way is “homosexuality is wrong.” They hear that every Sunday morning. (And, for those Baptists that don’t have a second job at Walmart – they hear it Wednesday evenings, too).
That’s the problem. Those pesky “beliefs” about homosexuals. They will keep defeating us.
mattymatt
@Brian: I get that you’re angry about people voting against us. It’s not unreasonable to feel mad about it. I’m annoyed too.
So, what are you proposing?
getreal
Every statistical trend shows that Americans are growing less and less homophobic all the time. People’s opinion on marriage equality is shifting to the side of equality since the election at an average rate of 4 points a month since the election in November. For those under 35 there is an overwhelming majority in favor of equality for gays. As much I hate homophobia people who do nothing for equality but gripe bothers me almost as much.As far as saying “they will defeat us” get real they are fighting a losing battle the trends don’t lie. Are we going to end homophobia anytime soon probably not but it will get harder and harder and soon impossible to pass discriminatory laws against lgbt people. Is all that negativity a way to rationalize doing nothing? Get off your butt and do something.@Brian:
Brian
@mattymatt: I’m not sure, but I think we have to agree to end the “hate” by ending the “beliefs” about homosexuals. Unless we do that ALL bets are off – no matter how well intentioned.
That seems to be our problem. There is no end in sight. Yeah, a few States approve or order marriage equality and then the voters take it away.
GETREAL says “Every statistical trend shows that Americans are growing less and less homophobic all the time.” Yeah, because they are growing less and less “religious” all the time. All of the homophobic beliefs a person can have come from Religion – not science, or nature or art. Those beliefs are what hurt us. The idea that “homosexuality is wrong” is the religious LIE that has caused ALL our pain and suffering.
We MUST end that LIE. We are NOT WRONG.
This would take courage because we’re not supposed to talk about religion. That “taboo” actually came from religion – how convenient. But, this is about our lives and our equality – we should talk, scream and rant if necessary because we are NOT WRONG.
We must figure out how to put Equality BEFORE Religion or we will continue to be hated.
The gunman in Tel Aviv WAS religion. Matthew Shepherd was tied to a fence by a Mormon and beat to death by a Baptist. ALL religions make homosexuality wrong – it is a “License to Hate.”
mike
Oh David… Why’d you have to take the swipe, and destract people from your event. I’m sure that wasn’t the idea, dumb.
And saying that money is going to send people to the national march??? Sorry, but I can’t support that, you won’t see me just for that reason. Top-down events like the NEM are stupid and take money away from all of our local efforts.
getreal
@Brian: Maybe you need to get off your keister and do something. It is not religion that is the problem it is bigotry and bigots. The worst thing the equality movement can do is try to make this some kind of holy war. In California there are over 100 faith based organizations fighting for full equality for lgbt people. Every heard of the Momma Bears they are a organization of straight Mormon mothers who are mad at their church and are fighting for marriage equality. Ever heard of Ca. Faith for Equality they are an organization that is bridging the gap between faith communities and the equality community they are why this movement now has priests, rabbis,pastors, and churches standing up for equality and marching and organizing with the equality community. The Ca. head of the Southern Christian leadership (The most power black religious org. in America) the organization that Martin Luther King Jr. founded that spearheaded the black civil rights movement has spent the last year speaking and organizing around marriage equality. I know that there are many people in the gay community that have a lot of baggage and resentment around religion but the place to unpack that is therapy and in your personal life not at the expense of the civil rights of lgbt people. The resent very expensive polling data that 35 organizations sponsors shows we will have to engage the faith to win equality there is no way around it. When communities of faith are engaged the poll numbers improve that is a fact. This is a civil rights issue that all Americans will need to confront and trying to change the religion of the religious is a straight shot to defeat. Maybe you could commit to spending half the time you waste on threads being negative weekly and spend that doing some real grassroots work. I’m not being funny if you tell me what state you live in I could give you a list of organizations. Maybe you wouldn’t be so hopeless if you were actually plugged in and knew what was going on.
mattymatt
In Brian’s defense, many of our opponents are religious. (And, as Getreal points out, many religious people are our allies; and many of us are religious.) It’s difficult not to get angry at the way that we’ve been treated. Our challenge is to turn that anger into productive action, and to exercise enough self-control that we don’t turn it on each other. It’s not easy, and it’s not fair that we’re in this position; but nevertheless it’s where we’ve found ourselves.
getreal
@mike: I could not agree more we cannot afford the resources wasted on another rally we need to fund the local grassroots work needed to win the campaign in 2010 or 2012. Plus the rally culture is self-defeating people will spend money to get to a rally spend a day listening and clapping then feel they have done their part and do nothing for the rest of the year. The money needs to spent on campaigning not preaching to the choir.
getreal
@mattymatt: Well put. We need to address the complexity of the different community if we hope to get their vote or work with them.
Brian
@getreal: You miss the simple point: Religion is the ONLY thing that makes homosexuals wrong. Bigots need to get the idea to hate from somewhere – in the case of homosexuals they get it from Religion.
The painful truth is that as long as we are “wrong” we will be hated. Religion is the ONLY thing that makes us wrong. The few so-called gay-friendly churches that are “welcoming to homosexuals” represent less than 1% of the Churches in the US.
We need to understand that we don’t need to be “accepted” or “tolerated” because there is NOTHING wrong with us. We MUST end that lie or we will never be equal.
We’ve been branded “wrong, deviant and defective” by Religion. We need to be re-branded.
Brian
@getreal: It won’t be a “civil rights issue” until we are no longer “hated.” People vote their beliefs. If they believe we are “wrong,” like they’ve been taught by religion, they will vote AGAINST us.
Instead of endorsing some religions as “helpful” why not ask them to change their official doctrine? Ask them to declare “homosexuality is not a sin, not wrong and not deviant.” That would mean something. Everything else is just “marketing.”
mattymatt
@Brian: That’s a great idea — partnering with faith groups to make statements affirming equal rights. What are you doing to make that happen?
Brian
@mattymatt: You DON’T partner with Faith groups – you make them end the lie about homosexuals or you stop supporting them. Why would we want to partner with the enemy?
Before religion homosexuality was okay, even cool. After Religion homosexuality was “wrong, deviant and sinful.”
We must end the “wrong” or we will never be equal.
getreal
@Brian: I know it doesn’t help your campaign but about 50% of atheists when polled were against gay marriage. There are many cultural factors beyond homophobia religion is just one of them. It sounds like you are blinded by your dislike of religion and religious people. This is not a religious issue but a civil rights one and when it is presented that way we win when it is presented as a means to change people’s beliefs we lose by a landslide. This is a civil rights issue and it will be solved like every other civil rights issue in our country’s history through grass roots efforts, hard work, and appealing to people sense of decency. We will never reach everyone but from slavery to the suffragette movement to the civils rights movement of the 1960’s to this modern civil rights movement the equality movement there is a tried and trusted formula for winning. Try to mind control people isn’t part of it. It is silly, ineffectual, and ridiculous. This is a civil rights movement not your therapists office time to leave your emotional baggage out of it.
getreal
@mattymatt: People like him don’t do. They complain and do nothing. They tell other what isn’t possible while they try nothing.
TANK
@getreal:
First, provide polling for that, because gallup puts it at less than ten per cent in the united states.
Second, it’s not because of their atheism that they’re antigay; wehreas it is explicitly because of christian faith that christian homophobes are antigay. You simply can’t justify homophobia with atheism…it’s logically impossible.
TANK
@getreal:
Just becuase you’re a roman catholic and will do and say anything to justify your religion doesn’t make it morally appropriate. You support in word and deed a religion which officially makes being gay wrong for no other reason than their beliefs that skydaddy exists and skydaddy doesn’t like it.
mattymatt
This would be that “turn on each other” thing I was talking about.
getreal
I will not get sucked into a religious discussion by do nothing that do absolutely nothing to forward the cause of equality. I have spent almost every weekend since the election working toward the repeal of Prop 8 and full equality for all Americans. I have learned to ignore the apathetic do nothings who want to pull those doing the work off our path to indulge in ineffectual bickering.
getreal
Although I don’t support the waste of money and resources wasted on the national march I do support supporting new organizations that are doing grassroots work like Equality Network who are doing the often sweaty tedious work that is vitally important whether we do this again in 2010 or 2012.
Brian
@getreal: You actually said: “from slavery to the suffragette movement to the civils rights movement of the 1960’s to this modern civil rights movement the equality movement there is a tried and trusted formula for winning.”
Uhhh, slavery, the condemnation of Blacks and womens suffrage were all previously “endorsed” by religion. They changed those “lies.” Why do you object to changing the religious lie about homosexuals? Are you on the payroll?
getreal
@mattymatt: Well I have learned to ignore the people who come on here to fight they are never activists or those involved in the solution just sad or angry people looking for attention.I/ say if that is what someone needs to get through the day.
Brian
@mattymatt: Don’t just sit their Matty – you know religion makes homosexuals wrong. It also kills 4-5 gay teens a day who commit suicide because they believe they are wrong. that comes from Religion and ONLY religion.
You can make all the posters you want. You can March until your shapely legs fall off. You can write emails to your elected officials. You can throw parties for $5 a plate or $500 a plate. NONE of it matters if people believe “homosexuals are wrong.” It is THAT belief we must fight and if we are too afraid to do that, then WE DON’T DESERVE EQUALITY.
Brian
@getreal: I am certain you make those comments with one hand at your forehead. You are just AFRAID to confront religion, that’s all. Don’t insult others who have the courage to fight those that have “defined us.” ]
If you think there is some other way to end the hate please tell us. What are you thinking? Maybe have a Court order them to stop hating us? Order them to stop believing that homosexuals are evil? Or do you see the “non-religious” telling the religious to “stop hating the gays?” Is that your Plan? If so, I hope you are busy creating more “non-religious” people.
Grow up. There is no need to complicate this problem. We are unequal because we have been defined by religion as sinners, wrong and defective. Until we change that we LOSE.
mattymatt
I do have opinions about religion, but every attempt I’ve ever seen at changing minds about religion has been divisive and counterproductive. I don’t think arguing about religion is a winning tactic for getting equal marriage. I’ve never seen a happy ending to that kind of fight.
I think it would be nice if we could all agree on it. But that won’t happen. I’m satisfied to let this be an area in which we permit each other to have different opinions. Sure, we could keep fighting about it; but nobody’s going to win. There’s better conversations to have.
David Comfort
I had no idea my email would generate such a response. It certainly demonstrates we need to provide a space whereby people can express themselves openly. Unfortunately, blog comments leave a lot to be desired. We are hosting an event at the end of this month – August 29th at Plummer Park – with Marcia Gallo, a lesbian historian (who is/was an activist). Hopefully, we can provide a space for face-to-face discussion of our differences and our commonalities. See you tomorrow night at Eleven!
I can certainly put some more thought into this but here is a list of strategic and tactical questions we need to ask ourselves:
Strategic and Tactical Questions
• How do we best address the religious question?
o Do we contest anti-gay religious doctrine?
o Do we leave it up to Soul Force and other gay religious groups?
o What are the most effective ways to counter religious arguments?
o Should we argue on theological grounds or separation of Church and state?
• How do we do outreach to communities of color?
• Should we stop comparing ourselves to the Civil Rights Movement?
• How do the grassroots organizations work with the Staffed Organizations
• How do we best challenge homophobia and anti-gay people and activities
o Example would be response to Rick Warren
o Do we sit down with them and try to work with them?
o Do we denounce them?
• Should we tolerate intolerance?
• How do we best educate people about LGBTQ issues
• We need to use different terminology other than LGBTQ for outreach?
• We need to put gays and lesbians front and center in the fight for Equal Rights?
• We need to stand with other groups in their struggles for justice and equality
• How do work with Obama? What actions does that translate in to?
• How do we work with Democratic Party?
o Who is on our side and how can we get our message across? Through existing established groups, or through a new coalition with hired hands – experienced political operatives, a la David Mixner.
• How do we respond to hate crimes?
• How do we develop a rapid response network?
• How do we bring in other gay rights issues
• What causes people to be/become homophobic?
• Why are people opposed to gay marriage?
• Should we stress that anti-gay and homophobic speech leads to hate crimes and more homophobic speech
• The role of nonviolence and civil disobedience.
o What actions can we do that can “ramp up” our actions and demonstrate our resolve? We need to be prepared to be arrested, but be prepared by nonviolence training and we need to pick our targets carefully.
o Can nonviolent direct action be an effective means to change hearts and minds and recruit people into the movement?
• Should we boycott businesses/individuals who gave money to Prop 8
TANK
@getreal:
You don’t want I do, bitch. You don’t get the right to claim who does and doesn’t have a say in this, you heterosexual cunt. And just because you define yourself according to gay inc doesn’t mean you’re not blameless for our collective losses, either.
TANK
@TANK:
That is, getreal, you don’t know what I do or what I’ve done. So STFU. I don’t need to wear my good deeds on my sleeve like you do.
getreal
@David Comfort: What a great constructive post David. Thank you for laying out a long list of options and issues. I will make a point of attending your Plummer Park event and want to thank you for all you are doing for the movement. See you tomorrow night at Eleven!
Julian Edward Domain
Hey, ‘operation embarrass your congressman’, is just like the brown shirts look it up. We went first with them too. This conservirepugnantocracy needs to be stopped now, what works against goebbels/rove methodology. We all need it to happen so how do we use the internet to make it happen. That is part of the reason we are being raped by these consultants is we are trying to fight zelots with reason we need to point out their fallacys and manipulation of all venues including this one.
TANK
And let’s not forget that getreal gets PAID to be an advocate. THis isn’t some kind of volunteerism. Her demands that other people “get off their keisters” and get motivated are made from a person who makes her living off of doing it. Religion is the problem, and activists across the world need to continue fighting it.
Brian
@mattymatt: What better conversations? Religion is the ONLY thing that makes you WRONG. Do you want to let that continue or do you want to reject that LIE?
That’s the deal. If you don’t reject that lie you will never be equal – you can’t be wrong, deviant and defective and still be equal. You just can’t.
So, yeah the REAL fight for homosexuals will take BALLS. GETREAL has already bailed out. I would suggest a new SN – NOTREAL.
getreal
For the record I am 100% volunteer I have never been paid for my activism I have a very involved day job and I still get out there every weekend. It is where any justice minded person should be at this point in history. Just another attempt by a very desperate person to get attention. I will go back to paying attention to the important work not the sad do nothings desperate for attention.
TANK
@getreal:
There you have it. I have no reason to doubt this–but you acted as if you were a paid advocate. Or that you have some kind of authority on matters lgbt that gives you the right to say who can and can’t have a legitimate opinion.
For the record, I volunteer at many organizations on the weekends and sometimes, at night during the week. I also donate huge chunks of my salary to charities.
Brian
@getreal: Go back to your hateful Church. You are not an honest advocate for equality.
TANK
@TANK:
In fact, compared to me, you’re probably a self involved twat when it comes to social activism, and actually helping other people.
getreal
I do hope those on the threads who are here to contribute not disrupt print out the list Mr. Comfort posted. We could take it back to our communities and use these questions as a great way to design and execute new strategies. It doesn’t take a huge organization to make local change yourself and 5 friends are enough to phone banking, canvass,do outreach etc. Let’s not get diverted from doing to the work.
mattymatt
If nothing else, this thread provides a pretty good example of how one fight will multiply into many.
Brian
@getreal: Pathetic. You skip away from the real issue. Gay people are hated. Why? It comes from religion and anyone using just a fraction of their brain knows that. But, you are afraid to confront that lie. You must be infected, too. Baptist, I’m, guessing. Hmmm, one of yours beat Matthew Shepherd to death. Why do you think he did that? Ummm, maybe because he was taught that homosexuals are sinners, wrong and deviant? That’s what the Baptists teach.
You can run away from the real problem, but don’t pretend that is somehow “effective” or “smart,” it isn’t. It is cowardly and dishonest.
getreal
Even without 5 friends there are many organizations that make it possible to volunteer from your home. It is possible to volunteer as little as less than an hour a week doing phone-banking collecting polling data and talking to the opposition about why marriage equality is important.At a recent marriage equality summit there was a blind man in his sixties who spends hours every week phone-banking from his home. These are the people I’m interested in hearing from not angry people looking to obsess over strangers online because they are mad at mommy and daddy. Ultimately none of us know each other on this thread but it is telling that some people spend 90% of their time getting into imaginary feuds with people they don’t know and 10% discussing issues. Happy people don’t need to do that. It is too bad Queerty can’t filter those who want to talk about strategy and purpose from those who want to have temper tantrums. I learned not to even read posts by those not part of the solution. Anyone who is more interesting in bickering than grassroots work is just an agent for the other side doing their work for them. I will continue to canvass and organize I am more interested in action than complaining.
Brian
@getreal: Tell us YOUR strategy for “ending the hatred of homosexuals.” Without that, nothing else matters. Let’s hear it Ms. GETREAL.
TANK
@getreal:
Big picture. You can do all of the grassroots work and meetings and planning you want, but until you reach the source, you’re sisyphus.
And further, lots of people who don’t volunteer have great ideas on where to take “the movement”. We should looking to them, actually, given how poorly it’s been handled by those who do.
TANK
@TANK:
ANd more than those who volunteer, those who get paid to strategize who have failed us as our respective community leaders.
getreal
Anyone who wants to find out about how to get involved or volunteer or has any more good suggestions please post. I did the navel gazing why does racism/homophobia/anti-semetism exist conversations when i was in college it is a way for apathetic people to feel they are doing something while they do nothing. Pointing out bigotry and injustice may feel like action but it isn’t if you are not out there making positive change you are helping the opposition with your inaction.I am interested in overturning unjust laws and fighting for equality it is humorous how there are a few fringe freaks who will attack those on their side because deep down they don’t have the cojones to try to actually do anything let alone talk to the opposition. That to me is sad.
mattymatt
If you’re looking for volunteer opportunities, there’s no shortage. California has tons of organizations looking for volunteers and money. I have a list of them, along with more ways to help, here: http://stop8.org/howyoucanhelp.shtml
Brian
@getreal: What fucking empty thoughts you just typed. They do nothing.
I asked about a STRATEGY about ending the hatred of homosexuals.
Do you have one?
getreal
I think although there have been missteps we cannot afford to navel gaze. If everyone justice minded person donated 4 hours a month we would never have lost marriage equality in california. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be oversight and healthy criticism I’m saying why criticize while WORKING in the movement. I guess if mattymat and david comfort are gone there is no reason to be on this thread.It is a nice reminder to keep our eyes on the prize and be more generous of our time and whatever we are doing do a little more.
getreal
@mattymatt: Great link! I work at activist training’s where we teach people to tell their stories and the different ways to engage people in conversations about equality friends or family the opposition etc. It is so useful the polling data shows that whatever their race,gender,religion, or political affiliation knowing someone gay is the factor most likely to change someone vote.
Brian
@mattymatt: Thanks for the tip Matty. Please consider doing something bigger, something that will actually change our lives. Ms GETREAL is a phony. We need real people, with real courage to take a stand, not blow up balloons or make posters.
Consider the ideas and thoughts presented here and look for something that will actually make a difference. As long as homosexuals are “wrong” we cannot win anything. Religion made us wrong. Research it.
Thanks for keeping an open mind and sincerely trying to find a “solution.” Thats’ what this community needs, not know-it-all meaningless bs that hasn’t worked. We need new ideas. Think of some.
getreal
@mattymatt: May I ask is your organization an offshoot of a larger organization? Do you concentrate your work in the northern Ca. area mostly?
Brian
@getreal: You never had a single idea or strategy to stop or undo the hatred of homosexuals. You’re full of shit.
mattymatt
I try to cover all of California; but being in SF, I do wind up seeing more norther CA stuff. Stop8.org isn’t officially part of any other group, but I work pretty closely with anyone who’d like my help — I edited some TV spots during the Prop 8 campaign, helped plan Day of Decision actions with MEUSA, worked with David Comfort on a project, and so on. I also produce video and editorial content when there’s time.
Brian
@mattymatt: Thank-you for those contributions Matty. Keep thinking. This movement needs new, powerful ideas to make a real difference.
getreal
@mattymatt: There is a Camp Courage event in November in Sacramento it is a two day activist training but it is also a great source for those looking for volunteers for their organization and to get resources from larger organizations.
Anthony in Nashville
For many years I have thought that the primary obstacle to equal treatment for LGBTs was religion.
Yet, as others have stated, picking a fight with someone about their religion usually does not end well. In fact, it may be one of the worst things you can do because I’ve found church folks to be much more likely to defend their beliefs (volunteering, donating money, listening to their leaders, etc) than gay people are about fighting for our rights.
So I don’t think we can avoid the “religious issue.” But we have to form alliances with the religious groups that are not homophobic. And challenge homophobia in our churches, if we go to a church that isn’t “accepting,” instead of being silent.
In an odd way, Ted Olson could become a major asset to our community *if* his motives in the gay marriage case because he may be able to get conservatives to look at gay rights from a different perspective.
Comfort’s list is a good place to start for looking at the questions we need to answer in order to have a more coherent “message” or “strategy to win.”
Anthony in Nashville
@Brian:
I agree with your statement that people’s opinions that gay people are “flawed” or “wrong” is a big contributor to homophobia. But I haven’t seen your ideas on what we can do to win our rights. Railing at the problem or pointing out the obvious isn’t the same as offering a solution.
anderson cooper is my future husband
@Brian: I’d like to say you have got to be the stupidest poster I have seen on here in a while badgering a poster because they can’t post the solution to end homophobia. Who the hell can why not ask for an to war too you douchebag. Where are your ideas you dumb piece of shit. It is self-hating losers like you that are what’s wrong with the world. You sound like a mentally ill douchebag stalking a poster for his ideas because you don’t have any of your own. Get help.
getreal
@Anthony in Nashville: I agree completely. There are a lot of people who have frankly been very hurt and it very difficult to look at the issue with a cool head, without lashing out and blaming anyone who doesn’t agree with them completely. I say to win this we need to be as calm, cool, and collected as possible and use our heads not our anger to dictate strategy.
TANK
One solution is currently being practiced by the likes of sam harris, christopher hitchens, dan dennett, and richard dawkins. They are actively providing the arguments against toxic religious faith. They engage in public debates that millions of people see on sites like youtube, and are leading the charge against religious dogma, and harmful dogma of any kind across the world.
Another solution is to actively lobby for an anthropological survey of the world’s religions to be taught to young children in public schools, lessening the chance of losing to them to indoctrination and meme programming by parents, relatives and guardians. It could be justified through cultural competency, as religion does play a huge role in the world.
David Comfort
Hi All,
These are some ideas I came up with to help develop a strategy for the LGBT Equal Rights Movement. Feel free to comment and pass along to anyone whom you feel would be interested. This is really just a starting point to a long conversation.
In peace and love,
David Comfort
[email protected]
http://www.equalitynetwork.org
Here are some ideas I want to propose for building a LBGT Equal Rights movement for the long term by:
• Learning from our past successes and failures.
• Building coalitions
• Building infrastructure
• Building visionary, alternative institutions
• Confronting the “anti-gay industry” and homophobia in all of its manifestations
• Repealing all homophobic and discriminatory legislation across the United States.
1. How can learn from ourselves and others about how we have been defeated, not just with Prop 8 but all the other anti-gay legislation across the US
2. What have we learned from past successes in defeating anti-gay initiatives?
3. Building an Equality Rights Training Center
A Training center/School which provides leadership training and education for the Equal Rights Movement. The Highlander Folk School played a critical role in the Civil Rights Movement and could serve as a model. Also, could look at the Midwest Academy as a resource. Does the National Gay and Lesbian task Force have any training resources?
4. LGBT Daily/Weekly newsletter
5. Nonviolent Action Training Courses
Training courses all across US in preparation for mass nonviolent civil disobedience.
6. Movement Education Tour
Have a traveling tour of speakers about the Issues and how to organize which travels from city to city.
7. Film Festivals
Connect with the LGBT Film festival circuit and get them more involved. We need to have public, community showings of the “oldies but goodies” to educate and inspire the community. Should the producers of “Milk” do more outreach and marketing?
8. Television
What getting programming on the Gay cable channels (LOGO) and the Sundance Channel and even PBS? Can CNN do a series on Gay America? What about Ellen, Rosie, etc.
9. Lobby for Harvey Milk Holiday and Harvey Milk Boulevards
10. Print Media
Get the Gay media (Advocate, Out, Instinct, etc.) to get back to the community and what is going on in the streets. Who are our allies in the print media?
11. Press relations
How do we establish the best press relations practices?
12. Online Media
Central database/clearinghouse for events, campaigns, networking, action alerts, etc. with ability to pull and push into database. Also, have a massive, central presence on Facebook and MySpace. Who are our allies in Online Media – Daily Kos, Huffington Post, etc.?
13. Video production
Produce short, viral videos on Gay history, Same-sex marriage, gays in the military, etc. Provide the means for every group to tap into resources to make videos
14. Movement Art and Song
Producing graphics, artwork, even plays and musicals, songs about the struggle for LGBT Equal Rights
15. Coordination and communication
There needs to be a lot more coordination and communication between groups and individuals. Have regular conference calls or meetings. National Summit conference once a year and regional summits every quarter?
16. What are we fighting for? Not just Same-Sex Marriage anymore
We need to clarify what we are fighting, with the understanding not everyone is going to agree on every single goal. For a start:
a. Expanded Hate Crimes Legislation
b. Passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, with transgender protection
c. Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights for LGBT Couples, including the repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act
d. Fight any Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage
e. Repeal Don’t Ask-Don’t Tell
f. Federal protection of Adoption Rights
g. Comprehensive national strategy to deal with HIV/AIDS.
h. Repeal of all anti-gay legislation across the United States including bans on civil unions and same sex marriage
All anti-gay laws need to be consigned to the dustbin of history once and for all.
17. Rap groups or rap sessions
The Feminist Movement had rap groups which were really effective in bringing women together to talk among ourselves on political as well as personal issues.
18. Concert for Equality
There could be a “Concert for Equality” like Live Aid, Farm Aid – could be in one city, multiple cities simultaneously, or a tour. What about enlisting Coachella on our side?
19. Celebrities
How can we enlist celebrities on our side? Endorsements? Donations?
20. What to do with the established Gay organizations?
A lot of grassroots organizers and LGBT youth are disenchanted, to say the very least, with the established gay organizers. In their eyes, these organizations are completely discredited. How can we mend that bond? And what is the future role for these organizations?
21. What can we expect out of the Democrats and Obama? Who is on our side and how can we get our message across? Through existing established groups, or through a new coalition with hired hands – experienced political operatives, a la David Mixner.
22. Who are the legal players (Lambda Legal) and what role can the activists play to support them?
23. Camp Equality
Using the model of the Obama Camps, set up Camp Equality, where organizers can hone their political skills and learn the basics of organizing
24. Building an intergenerational movement
“We aren’t done, we’re not leaving, and we’re in this together.”
25. The role of nonviolence and civil disobedience.
What actions can we do that can “ramp up” our actions and demonstrate our resolve? We need to be prepared to be arrested, but be prepared by nonviolence training and we need to pick our targets carefully.
26. Building bridges and having solidarity with other social and political movements
We need to build bridges and have solidarity with potential allies, including the huge progressive forces unleashed by the Obama campaign. We need to make this movement the progressive, liberal movement of the 21st century.
27. Shedding light on the plight of the LGBT communities in countries where they are routinely persecuted and denied their most basic human rights
28. How do we organize simultaneously on Local, Regional, National, and International Levels?
29. What role does the “Green” movement fit into this, if at all?
30. Building a multiracial coalition and practicing anti-racism
31. Reach out to people of faith, especially our allies
32. Speaking tours in schools, community centers, and churches
33. We need to map out the LGBT movement
We need a much better assessment of our forces. By community, by city, state and region, by website, by school and university
34. Set up community level organizations
Community by Community, block by block start organizing parties, film watching parties, fundraising parties. Look at what Moveon.org has done.
35. How do we develop a Winning Strategy?
How can we move forward on different fronts but with a defined strategy to win? How can we organize in a way that successfully targets the root causes and not just the more visible outgrowths of homophobia and discrimination? How do our organizations work strategically on their own fronts but in shared strategy/coalition with groups working on different fronts? What should we expect to happen, and what goals should we set for ourselves for the next 1, 5, and 10 years?
36. Info shops or Equality Stores/Cafes
We need physical places to meet and a hub for activists and organizers. Starting in LA and work outwards. Get local groups all across the US to start one. The gay and lesbians should be these physical places, but in LA the center is too far removed from the community in lots of ways.
37. A National March on Washington needs to be coordinated and organized.
38. Equality Summer
What about a series of events all across the United States based on the Civil Rights Movement’s “Freedom Summer,” which bring people to together to learn and act for Equal Rights
39. Grassroots, Grassroots, Grassroots
Keep the Movement non-hierarchal with leadership rising from the grassroots, not from the top-down.
40. Who are we targeting and how to define them? What do we want them to change?
41. Make Pride festivals more meaningful and more political
42. What will our tactics “toolbox” look like?
The first couple of days of marches and rallies were really effective about mobilizing people and getting people out in the streets. All this activity got our movement noticed and got a lot of media attention. A new movement arose from the ashes of the Prop 8 defeat.
People are still calling for boycotts, vigils, marches, but there is little to no coordination and it is demoralizing when only a handful of people show up to an action. And whom do we target and what is the “call to action” or change we are asking for? We need to look for guidance at other social and political movements such as the Civil Rights Movement, Women’s Movement, Central American Solidarity movement, environmental movement, anti-nuke movement, anti-apartheid movement, anti-globalization movement.
Tactics could include:
a. Boycotts of businesses and organizations. How do we define who to boycott? Do we call on all organizations, individuals and businesses to boycott certain entities? How do we make this effective? What about a positive boycott – supporting gay-owned and gay-supportive businesses
b. Divesture – the Anti-Apartheid movement was really successful in calling for divesture from companies doing businesses in South Africa. Is this a model? What campaigns can get campuses involved and “into the fight”
c. Letter writing campaigns and email alerts
d. Civil Disobedience –
e. Culture jamming
f. Protests and Marches
g. Flash mob
h. Student Strikes
i. Picketing
j. Publicity stunts and disruptive activities (pies in the face, etc.)
k. Sit-ins
43. Building local, state, regional and national coalitions that work.
There needs to be workable coalitions of groups and individuals. There could be regular meetings at all different levels. These meetings need to get “down to business” in an efficient, open and effective process, so that we can develop strategies and tactics. Not every group or individual is going to agree with all of the strategies and tactics. We could, however, agree that we are all working towards common, overlapping goals, with different groups focusing on different tactics. We need to share knowledge and resources, coordinate campaigns and actions. Online organizing is not enough. There could be coordinating committees (perhaps organizing regionally and around different avenues of organizing-outreach, media, infrastructure building), empowered to make this process effective and efficient. These coordinating committees need to be accountable and transparent, reflecting grassroots consensus decision making
44. Developing consensus in-person and on-line
We need to work on developing consensus decision making in an effective manner. Consensus is a decision making process that works creatively to include all persons making a decision. In short, consensus takes into account and validates each participant. Everyone gets the opportunity to voice their opinion, or block a proposal if they feel strongly enough about a decision. We need to develop consensus decision making in person, as well as online. However, online discussion forums are
Brian
@anderson cooper is my future husband: How sweet. GETREAL wants to Marry Anderson Cooper.
TANK
Of course, these are SERIOUS, LONG TERM solutions to the problems that are generated from religios dogma like the widespread epidemic of homophobia in the united states.
getreal
@anderson cooper is my future husband: Don’t feed the trolls. Just a suggestion 😉
Brian
@Anthony in Nashville: I didn’t say “people’s opinions” I said RELIGION is the ONLY thing that makes homosexuality WRONG. Nothing else does. Religion has defined us – as wrong, sinners and deviant. Now, we can sit on our hands and just accept that definition of we can reject it. I have suggested unless we reject it AND re-define gays and lesbians we are not getting equality.
This is the REAL battle. We must have the courage to put Equality BEFORE Religion. Until we do we will continue to be hated. As long as we are hated, no equality. It’s that simple.
TANK
@TANK:
In fact, these solutions would take more effort and commitment than lgbt advocacy groups–themselves infiltrated by the religious opposed to these ideas–would have the backbone and will to implement.
But, in the long run, they would doubtless end institutional bigotry in the united states and world.
TANK
@TANK:
ANd by end institutional bigotry, I mean for lgbt americans. And if it were implemented elsewhere, it would improve the lives of lgbt people worldwide. But we don’t want solutions…not us. We want problems. Because problems are profitable.
TANK
@Brian:
Well, sexism makes homosexuality wrong. Religion has absorbed it to the point where they are indistinguishable as being the central reason for institutional homophobia in the u.s.
getreal
There are plenty of people who hate blacks in this country and we have a black President. We don’t need to abolish homophobia to win equality it is a childish idea. There are plenty of people who don’t like blacks but don’t oppose their freedom and equality. Gay people don’t need people’s approval they need the opposition to stop preventing them from having an equal stake at all america has to offer. In my work with the opposition I have found that stressing to people to put aside their personal feeling about homosexuality to support the American ideal of equal rights for all Americans works. I can’t tell you how many times i have heard I don’t agree with it but they have the right to do what they want. It is a step in the right direction.
Brian
@TANK: Sexism isn’t as big a contributor as religion. In fact, religion probably invented sexism by professing right and wrong. Women and homosexuals fell into the “wrong” side.
Anthony in Nashville
@Brian:
I hear you, but in talking to homophobes, religion is not the only factor for their hating gays. I’ve also heard things like:
a. a gay person treated me bad, so now I hate all gays
b. my father/mother left our home to be with someone of the same gender, I hate gays because they wreck families
c. gays can’t have kids, and if living things from bacteria to plants to animals exist to replicate themselves, there must be something wrong with homosexuality.
So religion is just part of the problem.
As far as re-defining gays, that’s a very interesting point. What would you like to see as part of this new definition?
Anthony in Nashville
@getreal:
I agree. That was one of the points Bayard Rustin tried to emphasize — it’s not about people’s “acceptance” or personal feelings, but creating a legal framework where people can’t use their “feelings” to discriminate against people.
Brian
@getreal: “Plenty of people hate Blacks, but we just elected a Black President.” Uhmmm, that means that we NO LONGER have PLENTY of people who hate blacks. Jesus, can’t you understand the math?
We were taught to hate Blacks by religion. We were also taught that slavery was a “good thing” by religion. Thank God we got past THOSE lies.
The other LIE promoted by Religion is that “homosexuals are wrong, sinners and deviant.” Why do you insist on leaving that lie alone? Why is that lie okay with you?
The truth is we have a Black President because enough of us stopped hating blacks. We rejected what we were taught. I’m curious, when will we have enough people that stop hating homosexuals? Enough to elect a Gay President? When will that be GETREAL?
Brian
@Anthony in Nashville: Oh, instead of changing those “feelings?” You’re lazy.
Brian
@Anthony in Nashville: No kidding? You say people said this:
a. a gay person treated me bad, so now I hate all gays
b. my father/mother left our home to be with someone of the same gender, I hate gays because they wreck families
c. gays can’t have kids, and if living things from bacteria to plants to animals exist to replicate themselves, there must be something wrong with homosexuality.
ALL of those excuses flow from the belief that homosexuals are defective and wrong, the belief taught by ALL religions.
And, by the way – gays have kids. They adopt them.
TANK
@Brian:
It is true that christianity is a deeply sexist faith, as is islam and judaism. But I’m unsure of whether or not religion invented sexism. And sexism is not distinct from religion (gender normativity), so we can say that religion is the biggest obstacle to lgbt enfranchisement in the united states when even its president isn’t immune to talking about god being in the mix. Sexism is also a part of the broader culture, though.
The religious mount the campaigns that are successful against us, and they’re the most vocal elements opposing our equality. Until tremendously large numbers of them stop using sexism as a part of their faith, we’ll continue to face discrimination of all forms.
TANK
The good news is that religious identity has been steadily falling out of favor in the u.s., and this trend is likely to continue (and not as one of those dips to great awakening, either–as even in one of the worst economic crises we’ve faced, we’re not filling up the churches). This one’s gonna last.
schlukitz
@Trooper:
Not sure why this poster continues to announce that it’s cancelled. It’s not.
Because there seems to be quite a few negative, closeted, self-loathing gays who post on this site, who’s only wish is for the LGBT movement to fall on it’s face so they can say “See, I told you it was a waste of time and money.”
Anthony in Nashville
@Brian:
Changing feeling should be a long-term goal, I am more interested in putting laws in place that can override “feelings,” because there will always be people whose “feelings” can’t be changed.
As far as those homophobic rationalizations, I’ve heard them used by atheists, agnostics, and people who don’t go to church. So I think it’s too easy to put all the blame on religion. I’m sure there are homophobes in China, which I think bans religion.
getreal
We elected a black President not because racism ended but because some people put aside their racism when they voted.As for when we will have a gay President who knows I am not a psychic but we will have one in this country I would say in the next 25 years not because homophobia completely ceases to exist but because over time fewer and fewer people will subscribe to it.
@Anthony in Nashville: I am glad more people in the equality movement are bringing his work to light you would be surprised how many people even in the black community don’t know who he was and his place in the civil rights movement.
Brian
@TANK: I agree. My friend just finished a chart showing what Countries homosexuals have their rights and if they are “religious.” The Countries with the least amount of religion have the most equality for homosexuals.
Least religious and highest gay equality are: Sweden (14% religious), Norway (20%), Netherlands (20%), Spain (22%), Belgium (28%) Canada (32%).
The US is one of the worst with 71% being “religious.” Until that changes, no equality.
It’s simple math: Where there is still Religion, there is no equality for gays and lesbians. Some Counties have grown up and gotten over the whole silly premise of “faith.” They are the ones that welcome equality.
getreal
@schlukitz: I agree some posters on here seem to hate people working for equality more than they hate the homophobes. Whipped dog syndrome.
Brian
@getreal: Oh, I get it, ahhh they simply put down their racism long enough to vote. I think your comments qualify you to be a racist. Or insane.
We voted for Barack Obama because we believed in him and we DID NOT CARE ABOUT THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN. That was a big moment for America and it confirmed that the majority of us were NOT racists. Apparently you are if you believe we can turn those feeling on and off.
Your comment is probably one of the most pathetic comments I have ever seen on this site – and you profess to be fighting for EQUALITY? Just fucking insane.
getreal
Has anyone seen the video of the guy who says in a very deep southern accent “I’m votin fer the n*gger” seemed pretty racist to me.
TANK
The chances of an atheist being homophobic in the united states are dramatically less than those of a religious identified person. There is no link between atheism to homophobia; there is for christianity.
Until the numbers of the religious homophobes dramatically decreases, there is no hope for substantive reform and gay rights.
schlukitz
@TANK:
I don’t need to wear my good deeds on my sleeve like you do.
Getreal and SM are clones!
getreal
I’m just not going to be distracted by the issue at hand by those obsessed with religion. There is never one answer or one source of something as complex as homophobia and it is naiveté or ignorance to think there will be a silver bullet to eradicate it. What I do think is important is to give organizations a chance who did not drop the ball last time and seem to be offering new ideas and new energy there will ballot initiatives all over this country NEXT YEAR we have to ignore people telling us to do nothing and wait for homophobia to disappear we cannot afford to wait or be sucked into infighting and apathy. Ultimately someone who wants to waste time insulting strangers online is not someone who has anything to contribute to the equality movement and should be pitied not fought with.
TANK
@getreal:
religion is a huge part of the issue, honey. You live in CA and worked on the no on hate campaign–you should know this.
getreal
Not clones but we obviously both live in Los Angeles. I’m not sure why someone would post a link to this meeting which I was under the impression was closed door meeting of 12 organizations but it seems irresponsible.
@schlukitz: I am no one but myself but any one of hundreds of members of 12 gay rights organizations had access to that link. I doubt I’m the only one on Queerty.
Brian
@getreal: Now, you said: “Has anyone seen the video of the guy who says in a very deep southern accent “I’m votin fer the n*gger” seemed pretty racist to me.”
You are disgusting.
getreal
I have ceased having any discourse with anyone who addresses other posters in a hateful or sexist manner.
I am interested in reading posts apropos to the article. Posts on new organizations, ideas,infrastructure, strategies. For Californians 2010 or 2012 and why?
schlukitz
@mattymatt:
If nothing else, this thread provides a pretty good example of how one fight will multiply into many.
Yep. And people like Getreal, SM, DuttyBarb and youcanthandlethetruth are the Molotov cocktails who ignite the fights, in case you have not noticed.
getreal
No I’m a black person who knows racism exist has experienced it and it is laughable for anyone tell me I’m disgusting for saying so. I will not waste my time address someone who seems pathologically dissatisfied with themselves they feel the need to project all their self-loathing onto complete strangers it is very transparent. You aren’t hurting or impressing anyone with all that venom but yourself.
Brian
@getreal: “Obsessed” with religion? You idiot – you are religious and that’s why you defend religion.
TANK is correct – religion is a big part of the problem. I think it is the one thing that makes homosexuals wrong and you have not offered any other explanation.
It is very clear for any thinking person that people get their beliefs about homosexuals from Religion. Those beliefs hold us back. Those beliefs killed Matthew Shepherd. Those beliefs are based on a LIE.
Why – in your God’s name – do you want to leave that LIE about gays and lesbians alone? It does ALL the damage and you don’t want to confront it? Are you a fraud?
Brian
@getreal: I think people know what you are GETREAL. I think they know.
getreal
@schlukitz: I’m an activist interested in doing not just complaining and attacking which is what most of you are on here for. Some of us actually want to discuss issues if you don’t like that and want to have a hatefest just ignore those you don’t agree with. I’m going to go back to doing that any adult with self control should have the ability to have a discussion without being verbally abusive. I would bet there are some mentally ill people among those who must come on this site everyday and find a target instead of discussing the news they are incapable of being on here with out searching down some poster to try to victimize. It seems a sad waste of time. If you hate someone views why not dialogue with someone whose views you admire. I think i’ll take my own advice. Have a good night.
getreal
I am interested in hearing from someone who can talk about anything related to the equality movement and the article except their obsession with religion. I didn’t come here for a revival meeting i cam to hear about new strategies and points of view on civil rights not to get a church service.
Anthony in Nashville
@getreal:
I give you credit for continuing to respond to the people attacking you. There are some folks you just need to ignore on these boards. Shake those haters off lol.
getreal
@Anthony in Nashville: You couldn’t be more right. Thanks
Brian
Gee whiz MS. GETREAL you never answered the simple question – What makes homosexuals wrong? It’s very easy – Religion.
If you don’t understand, or refuse to understand, the significance of that reality, then you can’t possibly help gay people obtain equality.
It’s not about religion and who believes what – it is about the FACT that religion is what “defined” homosexuals as sinners, wrong and deviant. Nothing else did that. If you choose to ignore that fact, then you are willfully a part of the problem.
We will never have equality is we do not reject that religious lie and work to re-define ourselves. Ignoring that reality, as GETREAL has chosen to do (mainly by changing the subject with rants about racism)just prevents us from having the conversation about religion. The idea that we can’t talk about religion, that it is “taboo” was started by religion as self-preservation.
When we have real, honest and meaningful conversations about religion we make progress. There is no debate about anyone’s beliefs, there is just the fact that religion defined us and we need to do something about that. I don’t care what anyone actually believes – I only care about the damage caused by the religious LIE that homosexuality is wrong.
We need to stand up to that LIE and we need people to know the truth about us. Dismissing the conversation about that reality just demonstrates a lack of sincerity or gross ignorance.
I am all about full equality for my glbt brothers and sisters and in that effort NOTHING is taboo, or sacred or off limits. We need a winning strategy for obtaining equality and it will not happen if you leave the number one cause of our pain and suffering out of the conversation. Religion should be front and center and they should either correct the injustice of the homosexual lie, or they should go out of business.
If you want to apologize for Christianity or rationalize their branding of homosexuals – don’t do it here. Do it with the others, Sunday morning. The conversation on this site is about EQUALITY.
Chitown Kev
@getreal
that “I’m votin’ for the nigg*r” comment-I’ve never quite known what to do with that. On one hand, it’s racist, on the other hand that person was willing to vote a black man for president in spite of his racism. A lot of Obama field workers and canvassers have said that they heard that comment. IMO, that phrase kinda sums up the 2008 election.
Brian
@Chitown Kev: No kidding. That’s what 120 Posts leads to? No fucking way. And we wonder why we don’t have equality.. or even respect.
getreal
@Chitown Kev: I have several friends who canvassed in Florida and Nevada who were told that exactly. I’m not sure if it is a step forward per se but I don’t think people putting their prejudices aside even if temporarily is completely a bad thing. Did you see the guy insult me and call me disgusting for stating there is still racism in this country even racism I’ve experienced personally…typical.
TANK
Okay, I don’t know where race card’s coming from. I think it’s going to deteriorate into an oppression off, though. Deflects from constructive criticism.
getreal
@Chitown Kev: Interesting how stating a fact that racism exists is playing the race card. But what can you expect from someone who called another poster the N word. So somehow when he called a poster a nigger that wasn’t playing the race card? Typical.
http://www.queerty.com/are-there-any-california-activists-who-know-how-to-play-well-with-others-20090727/
schlukitz
@TANK:
Okay, I don’t know where race card’s coming from.
Yep. Like the American Express Card, Getreal never leaves home without it. ;o)
TANK
LOL! No…actually, I didn’t deny that racism exists. It’s like bringing up the holocaust when discussing gay rights, though–to silence conversation about gay rights. It’s a card that’s played, and inappropriately.
TANK
@getreal:
ANd that was probably you. I never used that word. Another failed attempt at changing the discussion, and deflecting criticism from…religious bigotry against lgbt’s.
getreal
It isn’t a card. Someone posted that until homophobia is gone lgbt people will not have equality I stated that there is racism still and we elected a black President. It is an analogy. I was told that racism was over it isn’t. That isn’t playing a card and I don’t play it. I will discuss reality be it about racism or homophobia. If you accuse someone of playing the race card when they discuss race you are playing the race card. Typical. I’ll be back when real posters not people desperate for someone to bicker with and get attention from.
TANK
@getreal:
No, getreal, the way you play it trivializes it and makes it a hand…you ham.
TANK
@getreal:
Until religious bigots like roman catholics stop voting their bigotry because of their religious values in huge numbers, there won’t be equality for people like me. It’s simple. State by state solution isn’t one…it’s a recipe for failure. need I make a comparison?
getreal
I don’t care if people criticize religion people can believe whatever they want as long as they don’t attempt to handicap our movement or to try to trap other into their religious obsession. I’m here to discuss politics. I have never cared what other people do or don’t believe religiously it is simply uninteresting and not my business and no matter how much anyone on here kicks and screams I’m not going to help you work out your religious hang ups. I’m a equality activists not a therapist.
TANK
@getreal:
Yeah, because our movement isn’t alread trapped by religious bigotry…oy, you refuse to see the problem poses to our “movement”. It cost california marriage equality. Wake up, infant.
TANK
and politics and religion in the united states walk hand in hand. You can’t discuss one in any substantive way without addressing the other.
schlukitz
@TANK:
It’s like bringing up the holocaust when discussing gay rights, though–to silence conversation about gay rights. It’s a card that’s played, and inappropriately.”
It’s a tactic that Getreal has become well-known for. The inappropriate ploy has a name…Godwin’s Law (also known as Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies) Wikipedia.com has some interesting comments on it.
And that was probably you. I never used that word. Another failed attempt at changing the discussion, and deflecting criticism from…religious bigotry against lgbt’s.
Umm…Getreal uses racism like a double-edged sword. Sometime back, she accused Bill Purdue and Charles Mueller of being racists when, in fact, neither of them had ever uttered the word or made any derogatory comments about her race.
Like youcanthandlethetruth, SM and DuttyBard, she is very devious and manipulative person and not to be trusted.
Be very wary of her.
TANK
Well, in getreal’s defense, bill perdue’s fucking insane.
getreal
I agree be wary as a matter of fact I would suggest none of every post toward each other again. Yay! a great solution I will completely ignore both of your posts in the future. Although you seem incapable of ignoring mine. Well I’m glad i have self-control.
SM
After 8 years of the Anti Gay Bush Administration, Proposition 8 won by @ 4% of the vote. Some of you act like only 50 people voted No On Prop 8 and they were held at gunpoint.
Religion is not your problem, it’s your excuse.
Barack Obama was a one term Senator with less than 10% name recognition 2 years ago. I’m glad he did not sit home and sulk.
There is no secret strategy.
1. Excellent Media
2. Excellent grassroots efforts
3. Excellent GET OUT THE VOTE EFFORT.
You lost by less than 5%…religion is just an excuse.
Grassroots efforts
Ask for help!
Stop acting like jerks
You will probably see that many poeple are conflicted with their church on the issue.
Proposition 8 will be struck down when LGBT decide they want it gone. Sit home and its a for sure win for the other side. I bet they say thanks~
TANK
@SM:
Religion isn’t just an excuse. Religion won in california. NO one is arguing that the no on 8 campaign made a LOT of big mistakes, though, and was mismanaged from the get go…
getreal
@SM: Hey a few trolls on a website don’t speak for any activists or any work being done in California.Also why do say “you” lost aren’t you an American? Didn’t we all lose when discrimination was written into California’s constitution?
TANK
@getreal:
Because heaven forbid we get honest and admit that religion is a huge obstacle to lgbt equality. Not for the religious who have infiltrated us and get all uncomfy around those issues because their delicate, irrational sensibilities might be offended.
SM
@TANK:
STOP making it about Religion!
Learn to tell people why Equality is important to you and take religion out of the equation. Put some religious people in your media but do not make it a religios campaign. You will never change the super religious and you don’t want to offend people you can win over.
You are biased on the subject anyway. You are obsessed with hating religion.
TANK
@SM:
But it IS about religion. There well funded campaign against equality came from religious backing, and made primarily religious arguments. LOL!
getreal
@SM: This is not an us and them issue. Even if you are not gay this is still something you lost make no mistake. If discrimination can be voted in against one minority group make no mistake it can and will be used against another. This is every Americans problem.
TANK
That’s a beautifully worded empty of any action plan or stategy. You see, those that WIN against us do think of it as a us/them issue. They treat it as such, and they win by doing it.
But you’re right about one thing. California amending its constitution to discriminate against a minority undermined the very foundations of a rights based democracy.
getreal
@SM: So why give a fundamentalist what they want by arguing religion with them? Ignore them and you don’t have to argue with them they only have opinions on one subject if you refuse to discuss that subject they either have temper tantrums or go away either makes them easy to ignore.Just don’t read the religious crazies posts. Seems to work.
SM
@TANK:
You lost by 4%
You don’t have to convince me, my community got free Yes On Prop 8 Campaign Material for thier cars, yards from their Churches while I had to make phone calls, wait to pick up signs, and I paid for every one. I replaced my signs everyday because every night they were cut up and replaced with Yes Signs.
I woke up to Yes On Prop 8 doorhangers on my front door and they called my home daily the last week before the election.
You can argue with me till the end of time. I changed minds in my neighborhood and have people who had Yes On Prop 8 bumper stickers on their car now stopping me and remind me they voted no and what’s up on the issue. All I did was talk to them like a human being and with respect.
Its not that complicated
getreal
@SM: Good for you.
SM
@getreal:
The night before the election, I drove over to very conservative Mission Viejo for a rally. The religious people were out in full force and showing up in trucks with Yes Signs plastered all over them. They would drive through the intersection and shout Bible versus over loudspeakers hooked up in the bed of their trucks. It was my little group, the crazy religious people, and the police circling to make sure we were safe.
A car full of high school students driving a convertible drove through the intersection and saw what was going on. They returned with an American flag, circled the block for at least an hour, flying an American flag behind them and jamming to music. They had a blast. Can they vote yet? The young people get it. Many cars in conservative Mission Viejo were honking loudly for you on November 3.
A fun grassroots campaign with excellent media will get you where you want too be. Rallies, etc. I have a lot of respect for the LGBT people going into conservative areas to canvass right now. I know its not easy to go where you don’t feel welcome but I think it will empower them more than they know.
SM
These were High School kids in my area last October. They did this all on their own with homemade signs. Gay and straight high school kids standing up to the religious grumps in the OC because they believe in Equality for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8rRtvQ9Arc
getreal
@SM: There is so much good work being done. Thank you for bringing some real stories. FYI I love to canvass in the very conservative areas the most it is there where the it is needed most and most people even if they don’t agree will hear you out and treat you with respect.
SM
@getreal:
A car full of high school kids in conservative Mission Viejo late on November 3. Looks like a car full of future Equality to me.
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8791/img0173ocj.jpg
Brian
@getreal: This is what you said: “I have never cared what other people do or don’t believe religiously”
That statement confirms you are stupid.
Religious beliefs are why we are hated. It is why we do not have equality. It is why hundreds of gay teens commit suicide. It is why we need “hate crimes” laws. It is why we lost Prop 8 and will lose Maine and Washington votes. It is why our President is having trouble fulfilling his campaign promises. It is why two people were killed in Tel Aviv. It is why kids are thrown out of a restaurant in El Paso. It is why Matthew Shepherd was tied to a fence and beaten to death (Mormon and Baptist did that). It is why people are afraid of homosexuals. It is why many of our brothers and sisters remain in the closet. It is the “only” thing that makes homosexuals wrong.
That’s why.
And you “have never cared …”
That explains everything. I do not need to say anything else to you or about you. You have chosen “religion” over “equality” for the rest of us. Your “faith” is more important than your “community.”
Go to Hell.
schlukitz
@Brian:
That statement confirms you are stupid.
You needed confirmation? LOL
getreal
@SM: Thanks for that. Those of us doing the work out there get to see the positivity and it fuels continued work and diligence.There are larger number of teens doing canvassing and phonebanking and letter writing and fundraising for equality straight and gay they are not even old enough to vote and they are working toward a better America. That is why a few sad angry people tantruming on a website means nothing I’m only concerned with constructive work toward progress and that’s what I’m involved in.