If you’re reading this piece you’re about to get molested by some movie spoilers… that means you should stop reading now if you don’t want to know what happens in the middle of The Hangover II… totally serious here…
Okay, you’re still reading, so that means you’re okay with knowing that Ed Helms’s character bareback bottoms for a trans-woman in a Bangkok stripper bar and she totally jizzes inside his formerly 100% hetero rectum.
Here’s what happens next: Ed Helms’s character briefly freaks—admit it, gay, if you woke up next to a straight woman who excitedly told you that you had just done “it” with her you might have a similar reaction—and then adds, in shock, “I made love to a man with boobies.” Later in the film Helms sings a song where one of the lines is “I got fucked in the ass by a girl with a dick.”
Clearly, transpeople deserve to be described as they are, with respectful language and yes, the Helms character fails on that count. But it’s what happens around those statements that tips the scales toward the side of this all being good for transpeople:
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They cast an actual trans-woman (Yasmin Lee, star of porn titles like “Bitch Got Balls” and “She-Male Strokers 12”) and the camera doesn’t flinch from her full frontal nudity, penis and all.- Her character is clearly the one running the show. She informs Helms’s character that he liked the sex they had, they simultaneously orgasmed and that he shouldn’t be surprised because, after all, “they call it Bangkok, not Bangkunt.” Furthermore, her character is never in any danger; no one wants to retaliate. In a world where transpeople are seemingly routinely being attacked in what most people would consider reasonably safe locations—parking lots, the local McDonald’s—an image of an assertive transwoman taking control of a sexual situation is pretty powerful stuff.
- Every other character in the movie—in fact, the movie itself—laughs it off as just one more crazy episode in a wild, drunken night.
Obviously it’s all in the eye of the beholder, but it feels like, in the long run, that a film like Boys Don’t Cry might heighten sensitivity and awareness, but it’s going to be the otherwise raunchy, politically incorrect comedies that push culture forward for the masses, transwoman-dick-inch by inch.
jason
A tranny who does porn is not a good role model for trannies. In fact, tranny porn is a grubby, disgusting industry that trades on fetish and psychological displacement. I have no respect whatsoever for any tranny who does porn and nor do I want them to be associated with the GLBT cause.
Jess
Jason, I agree. Thanks Hangover 2… for enforcing a negative stereotype I constantly already have to endure. Most Transpeople are not porn stars!! You just set us back 10 years and made it much worse.
beerwad
@jason: But gay porn is totally fine and gay porn stars are perfectly acceptable role models for the community, right?
And what about FTM “trannies” who, by using the word “tranny,” you unwittingly lumped in with MTF’s? Most MTF “tranny porn” is geared towards straight men, whereas FTM porn (yes, there is such a thing) is made and distributed within the queer community. Most FTM porn has a message of sex positivity, acceptance of different body types, and safe sex, and many FTM porn “actors” (myself included) are active in LGBT causes, like it or not.
jason
I don’t like men who do male-male porn either. I think once you weave porn into your sexuality, it debases your entire sexuality.
beerwad
Whatever. Prude!
Atlas
I’d just like to say I’d love it if Ed Helms bottomed for me.
Aiden
It’s a comedy. Nothing is safe from being used in a comedy or by a comedian, nor should it be. LGBT jokes are funny. Hetero jokes are funny. Racial jokes are funny. Stereotype jokes are… you guessed it, funny. No matter how offensive they are. Nit picking at everything will just slow down the LGBT movement and makes us look like assholes. Lighten up!
DavyJones
@Jess: Set back 10 years? Really?
ousslander
looking forward to laughing my ass off watching this movie.
AmyW
C’mon, a movie like The Hangover, set in Thailand, and you don’t expect them to do a ladyboy joke? I thought it was fine, completely in the spirit of the rest of the movie, and nothing negative was really said about it.
Jeffree
@jason: I’m disappoined in you: you forgot to rant about liberals, lesbians, Hollywood or “sleazy straight guys.”
We have a “Jason Buzzword Bingo Board” at our house, and I lost the game because you didn’t give it your all.
Please try harder next time.
Sweetbrandigirl2004
Call them Tranny or Trannie or Trans women or whatever you like it’s still a shemale porn star popping him in the butt… and Transgender Inc wonders why HBS Transsexuals don’t want to be under their F$%^& umbrella.. go figure. How you you ever expect to be accepted in society when you purposely make yourself stand out and be apart from society,, chicks with dicks come on pleaseeee. Gay have earn acceptance by showing society they are just like ever other normal family in America. Likewise Transsexuals for the most part simply want to fix a birth condition and blend back into society, but getting equal rights is harder now then it ever was before the birth of the transgender movement. There agenda to force a third gender upon America is making it Impossible for True Transsexual women of history to get the rights they deserve so they can get on with their lives.
Tess
Sweetie it’s not HOMOphobic but TRANSphobic ….. why can’t people see there is a difference!
Tess
sorry half alseep ….
But it’s Interesting as true m3f transsexuals have trouble getting an erection let alone maintaining one for intercourse ….. although a trans woman who is seeking to be recognised as female but has no desire to have sexual re-assignment surgery is actually a transvestite not a transsexual.
I think this episode actually stereotypes M2F Trans people as sexually aggressive and promiscuous.
Pocket
@Jeffree: Hahah, I’m actually more disappointed he hasn’t got laid yet. Each to their own I guess, but really Jason, try even sharing the same air with another gay person – yes, in the flesh. It’d do your demeanor a whole lot of good.
sweetbrandigirl2004
@Tess: Tess True Transsexuals have no desire to get erections nor do they derive pleasure from their penis. trans women who seek to be recognized as real women can’t be because real women don’t have penis…..you silly rabbit tricks are for kids and penis are on men.
Zeus
There was nothing wrong with that in the movie. A comedy/comedian makes fun of anything and everything, and no one called her any names or made fun of her, really.
Ogre Magi
@jason: Well, aren’t you little miss bitchy pants
Politically Incorrect Thug
Regardless, the movie sucked.
DarkCootie
Apparently, some people in the community need to do some research before posting. Ladyboys in Thailand really can be that casual and assertive. It’s more acceptable there than here. I’d love to be able to walk the street and see a beautiful ladyboy like that. I’m just glad that a mainstream movie had the balls to put real ladyboy balls on the big screen.
DarkCootie
@Jess: Jess, I have to ask. Have you done a web search for tranny/trannie/trannies/ladyboy/shemale recently. If you did you’d be bombarded with a near endless list of mtf porn references. I doubt Hangover 2 can be blamed for the set back, if there is indeed one.
yasminlee
Hi. this is yasmin lee…i normally don’t write or respond to reviews but my friends brought this to my attention and I do for the most part call you guys my family.
when I was sent the script for the audition, I thought long and hard about the part of kimmy and how the transsexual character are being portrayed. My conclusion. This movie is a fantasy about the experience of these men. We can’t look at it on a political point. this situation reflect one of the many possibilites of hetero male while in thailand.
And yes I do porn. Sometimes I wonder if my life would be different if I had guidance, help, or role models when I was 18 and transitioning. I was all alone, scared, and blinded by the moment thinking I don’t have choices. I made the decision to the best of my knowledge then to survive. My reality now is that Im a lot stronger and wiser, and I’m happy. I am who I am. Another reality is that 9 out of 10 transsexual woman are in the sex industry. it’s a high # to not conclude that it’s a social imbalance. we have to face it to fix it. I do consider myself as a role model. Through my hardship, mistakes, and love. I’ll be there to let my community know that they have a choice, but if they fallen into that world, they have someone who will lend a shoulder.
xo yasmin lee
yasminlee
I hear a lot of break down of what’s right or what’s wrong or even who is and not is a transsexual. A transgender person is one who change their outside appearance to match what their gender outside or simply feel their outside appearance does not match what they are inside. A TS woman who undergo surgery does not make her more or less than the one who can’t even afford to grow their hair long and have to still live as a boy because they are not ready to take that step. Sexuality is very complex and we can’t allow our personal experience or conclusion to represent the endless variable of diversity out there. Transgender comes in all shape, size, transition stage, and sexuality. If you need further help in understanding this complicated world you can always look me up on facebook under yasmin lee. Until then, lets just love and promote diversity.
Tommy
@jason: Well, thank god you’ve appointed yourself the arbiter of all things appropriately tranny and LGBT. More judgement is EXACTLY what out “community” needed, and its really brave of you to step in and fill that void! I’m sure that any “tranny” in “tranny porn” will think twice now that some sancitmonious prick on an anonymous website has said something about how she makes her living!
Ogre Magi
@yasminlee: Are you really her?
DarkCootie
IMHO:
Transvestite – is a man who dresses up in women’s clothing but has no intention on becoming, or feeling that he should/ is supposed to be a woman; vice-versa for the women.
Transsexual – a person living as a gender other than that which they are physically born, be it m-f/f-m/ gender neutral, who HAS NOT UNDERGONE SRS.
Transgender – A transsexual WHO HAS UNDERGONE SRS.
Transgender transvestite -1) A transgender woman who dresses as a man despite not intending to become, or feeling that she should/ is supposed to be a man; vice-versa for the for transgender men.
2) An asshole doing it for the LULZ/ just to confuse and piss people off.
Can you agree with this?
Yessi
@DarkCootie: You’re clearly confused, friend.
sweetbrandigirl2004
@yasminlee: I beg to differ with you True Transsexuals want NOTHING to do with their penis they have NO use for it and are Driven to remove it. You are completely wrong with you 9 out of 10 Transsexuals do porn crap. True transsexuals want nothing more then to get through Transsexuals a bad name.
sweetbrandigirl2004
@sweetbrandigirl2004: You are a She Male Don’t try to hide behind the Label of Transsexual you give True Transsexuals a Bad name
sweetbrandigirl2004
@DarkCootie: You are Incorrect There Are ONLY Pre-op Transsexuals and Post-op Transsexuals.
Transgender: Covers Transvestite, Cders, Drag Queens and Gender Queen They all are under the Transgender Umbrella. They would like to shove Transsexuals under there so they can co-op their GI/GID Diagnosis.
DarkCootie
@Yessi: @sweetbrandigirl2004: Indeed, I am. But it’s easy to understand why, when every group has a different definition of what what is.
As you said, “Transgender: Covers Transvestite, Cders, Drag Queens and Gender Queen They all are under the Transgender Umbrella.”
At one point before everywhere I looked and all i heard was Transsexual Covers: Transvestite, Cders, Drag Queens and transgender. They all are under the Transsexual Umbrella” essentially with that also being the hierarchy as well, although cders and transvestites were considered the same. Not being deep in the loop can really throw someone off.
yasminlee
@ sweetbrandi. You can very much be living in a bubble if you don’t see that most TS girls are in the sex industry. Granted I do know a lot of TS that have regular jobs and the number shot down when we start talking about high profile or corporate jobs. Transgender in the work force is higher now then ever due to heavy exposure the last 10 years, but most are still working girls. The main important point is that we come together as a TRANSGENDER and because of this relation, we have a lot of experiences in life that are common. However, we are first and foremost human from all walks of life with all kinds of culture and up bringing. We all adapt differently facing this world. Most TS I know are content with having their penis. Whether subconsciously they are ok with it for financial means and survival or emotionally feel a connection to their partner that seeks it. However they feel about it does not make them more or less a transsexual. We are already a small community and dividing us down does not make us stronger in our fight for tolerance in an ignorant world.
SayWhat
Maybe I need to re-read this like 10 times(or watch the movie which I have no interest in it), but did the author just advocate rape?? If a transgender deceives a straight person that is rape and I’m guessing the transperson had sex with him while he was drunk..that is also rape. I hope transgenders in real life don’t think that is acceptable behavior because in real life..the consequences will never be the same.
Heather
@SayWhat thank you for brining up the issue of consent, which is never addressed in the movie nor in any comments by @yasminlee. Additionally, disclosure is not discussed. It’s assumed, via the plot, that Ed Helm’s character has unprotected sex in the film. We don’t actually know this but via conjecture (the multiple references to semen in his body) we can assume. When Helm’s character decides to tell his future wife the answer he receives is “forget about it” — act like it never happend. This is a dangerous message and not because Helm’s character has sex with a prostitute as @yasminlee’s character is refereed to in the film. This sexist ideology reinforces the idea that men can fuck with whomever the like, risk infection of STIs, and have no obligation to disclose to their partners. Boys will be boys, right? No. Thank. You.
Although I agree with @yasminlee that the trans sex subplot may indeed be read as a fantasy enactment for hetero white men who feel, due to sexism, transphobia and homophobia (which white male culture itself perpetuates), that they could never act on those fantasies unless they are intoxicated and therefore, not responsible for “going gay.” I also agree that featuring a beautiful trans body in the film is, in and of itself, a powerful transgression against white male culture. It wasn’t lost on me either that Helm’s is topped by not only a trans woman but a person of color — another powerful transgression against the norms of white male culture.
However, what I felt most significantly was how the producers and writers banked on the deep fear of trans people to create the ‘comedic’ pull this plot is supposed to have. I was watching the film in Vancouver, BC (I live in Portland, OR) and whenever @yasminlees’s body was exposed on screen 100s of people gasped in unison and cries of “that’s so wrong” were heard.
It broke my heart.
It broke my heart because I felt that once again, the trans body, the queer body, the body that breaks rules that transgresses in any way but most importantly, the trans experience, was totally dismissed and used as a prop for cheep laughs.
Despite the brief moments when I felt the movie offered progressive perspectives, I don’t agree, as the author wrote, that because no one retaliates against @yasminlee’s character it’s a sign we’re moving the struggle for trans rights forward. It’s not a win just because a trans person doesn’t get killed, beaten, raped, or verbally attacked for expressing their sexuality and personhood. In fact, it’s a very sad comment on how much work we need to do that we celebrate a lack of violence against one of our own as a sign that things are changing.
Matt_miami
As a straight man I would normally not post a comment on a board like this. (Mostly because I would get dump on and trashed no matter how right my opinion was by the angry militant posters who are never satisfied.) But I feel that I have enough experience in what I have to say to make my point.
As to my Experience to comment: I lived in South Beach from 1995-2005 and I have lived in Thailand for a total of 22 months.
I have known many people in the GLBT community over the years and everyone has a different story. Some are running away, some are running to, some what to be left alone and some what to make a statement. I think that many of the posters here maybe taking this movie a little to serious. Those that are insulted about the use of Ladyboy’s in a movie set in Bangkok should maybe go to Bangkok first.
In my time living in Thailand I have had many Ladyboy friends. Having lived in a small town in Northern Thailand with very few Expats, it was usually the Ladyboy waitress who spoke the best English that would wait on me. Thai are very excepting of alternative life styles. There is little stigma associated with being gay over there.
As for the Ladyboy sex trade in Thailand. For what I know it is all voluntary, meaning the Ladyboy’s choose to do it, unlike the female sex workers who are mostly poor, uneducated and usually sold into the business by one of their parents.
Working in the sex business comes down to education and money. Ladyboy’s with an education and money get normal jobs working for Thai business or start their business. Uneducated, gay thai boys choose to become Ladyboy’s because they can make 3-4x the money dressing as a girl. Even more if they get breast implants.
So my comment to this board is the same to other boards that talk about life in other countries that they no nothing about.
If your not going willing to get up off your lazy asses and go to Thailand and do something about the sex trade than please don’t waste everyones time commenting on how insulted you are that they showed a ladyboy f’ing a straight man in a movie. Because in reality that happens everyday over there.
Those on this board who are upset with how your treated here as a GLBT person in America, Thailand is a great place to live if you have the means. Go over there, you can live a great life. Nobody with care about your sexuality.
ps. I didn’t here anybody concerned about the elephants in downtown Bangkok, or the fact that a monkey was smoking a cig.
Matt Cornell
If only transphobia were The Hangover 2’s only problem. What about its misogyny and racism. Oh yeah, and the spoof of a Vietnam War photo for anti-Asian laughs.
http://mattcornell.org/blog/2011/05/bangkok-has-them-now/
yasminlee
thank you matt for that on point insight… everyone is taking this to a whole new level. analyzing and dissecting. There was no advocating. I was born in thailand and very familiar with the culture. Yes this happens everyday in thailand. By having this scene in the mainstream movie is simply an opportunity to expose that we exist. From there we can advocate and educated people, because now everyone is talking..Yes in the scene by standard of being drunk kimmie could had possibly rape stu, but at the same time kimmie herself could had been drinking herself. Who knows. I have an insight on the people behind this movie and lets just say that they are for the GLBT movement. This is a comedy that make jokes about anything and everything…..this will be my last message. I was warned not to read to respond to reviews but you guys are my family and I feel an obligation have an open conversation. After all, if we don’t educate ourselves, how can we educate others
Lolol.
@sweetbrandigirl2004: You and your transier than thou ilk are sanctimonious fools. You have no right to tell people who they are and are not.
Jemma
Most trans women don’t join the porn industry because it seems glamorous and fun. You really think fucking strangers for money, strangers that hate you and think your body is freakish, making videos for a website called CHIXwithDIXXX.com, praying to god your family never finds that website….you think that’s fun? They join because they have literally no other options. So many of us are kicked out of our family and alienated. ..
You want to know WHY there’s so many trans women in the sex work industry? Demand. Demand put out by MEN like YOU. Men who find it exotic, and sexual, and freakish, and want it. Men like you find us SO exotic and sexual that you don’t let us have ANY employment at all (Who would work with a transsexual BANKER?) Then when we turn to making horrible degrading porno movies that men direct, men shoot, and men buy, hell men make almost the entire porn industry, and then you say its the poor trans womens’ fault. All the while keeping us out of normal jobs, and buying trans porn.
Stop talking about “fake trans women” ruining it for “real trans women”. What the hell does “fake” mean? “fake” meaning involved in the sex work industry? Meaning not feminine enough to give you an erection? Fake meaning can’t afford surgery? Any trans women who calls herself a “real trans woman” is a sell-out to the patriarchy. You honestly believe that all women should be perfect, obedient, little feminine stepford wives? Read some 1950’s feminism and start catching up for god’s sake. You think all trans women can AFFORD hormones? Surgery? Therapy? You think all trans women have money? A support net? A family? Friends? A home?
And STUPID CISSEXUAL HETEROSEXUAL MEN, stop talking as if you know what its like to be a young trans girl. You don’t. You couldn’t possibly. Jesus. Next you’ll start saying what it’s like to be a young black girl.
>”If a transgender deceives a straight person that is rape and I’m guessing the transperson had sex with him while he was drunk..that is also rape” I call bullshit on that. If a trans WOMAN has sex with a hetero man, his heterosexuality isn’t compromised, because she’s a woman. I do not have to warn people that I’m trans. My partner should warn ME if they are a violent, aggressive, smashing, transphobic, destructive asshole. During the date, they know I’m trans. When I take off my clothes, they know I’m trans. Before sex even starts, they know I’m trans. There is PLENTY of time for the man to say “Hold on, I’m not in the mood.” I’m scared of MY safety the whole time. When did “rape” even occur? Was simply LOOKING at a trans body rape?
Shannon1981
@Matt_miami: you know what? As a straight man, your opinions will never be as valid as those of us who live the life. NEVER. While I definitely value and love true straight allies, straight people need to just shut the fuck up when discussing queer issues with queer people if you are going to argue with us. You will never fully qualified to tell the truth of a people to whom you do not belong. Remember that, and you will be a much better ally.
Matt_miami
@Shannon1981: Like I stated in my original post, I don’t have a comment on TS living in America, The issue that each person faces is unique to themselves.
My comment was on Ladyboy’s in Thailand. Where this movie was filmed. And with that very narrow frame of reference of a scene in a movie, I think that the posters on this board have missed the mark.
First with the rape issue. There could be no confusion in the characters mind as to where he was. In Bangkok the go-go bars are either straight, gay or Ladyboy. That was a Ladyboy bar and all the girls in there were Ladyboys. Having been in one before, it takes about 30 seconds to know the difference if you are bar crawling down Soi Cowboy where this was filmed.
Second, when I have been in a normal club or disco in Thailand and talked to a Ladyboy, who wasn’t sure I knew she was a Ladyboy, they have always come out and told me very quickly. I have even had other Thais tell me that the girl I am talking with is a Ladyboy. I find it highly unlikely that the character in the movie was deceived. If the ladyboy picked his pocket and stole his wallet, I would believe that. Tricked him into having sex in a short time room without him know she was a he, no way. Thirdly, if that is a word, of all the unrealistic things that happened in the movie. e.g. car chase in bangkok that lasted more than 3 blocks, taking a boat from Bangkok to Krabi in a couple of hours, finding any address in bangkok(even with a map)or a 9 yr. old getting a tattoo. The most realistic scene was a couple of drunk guys going into a Ladyboy bar and one of them having sex. I have seen it happen with buddies of mine.
Taking a vacation in Bangkok is different than taking a vacation in the U.S. You will do things there that you would never do other places. So i say no rape happened and they knew where they were, Thai’s may try to rip you off in many ways, but no Ladyboy would trick someone into receiving anal without them knowing well in advance.
Everyday straight men get on a plane and go to Thailand to have sex with Ladyboys. It happens in my opinion because nobody knows what they are going over there and because the Thailady’s are truly beautiful. The prettiest girls in Thailand are Ladyboy’s. They didn’t even use a Thai girl as the bride in the movie. she was chinese.
Thailand has a sex trade problem and America has an acceptance problem. At least in Thailand they keep it simple.
P.s. My sister and sister-in-law are both gay. Not with each other that would be too easy.
SayWhat2
@yasminlee:
If this is really you, i have to ask, do you think it’s OK for a transgender/sexual to deceive a straight person? They do have tranpeople who can pass easily for opposite sex and if I got the article point on the movie(I haven’t seen either of them) the guy was drunk. I’ve read stories of guys being…accosted by what they thought were women in clubs.(dim light,alcohol..) I don’t think a person should be mislead in that way. I get that transpeople self idenify with opposite gender, but I don’t think that should give them permission to force that belief on other people.
Aiden
@yasminlee: But what kind of exposure are you giving us. Trans people are only ever present when we can be the punchline of a joke. That’s my problem. If we were portrayed positively in the media and then this movie was made I’d be fine with it, but all this does perpetuate stereotypes.
Shannon1981
@SayWhat2: Well I don’t have any opinion on any *rape*. I am not trans, but I am genderqueer and gay. It’s a hard life that you cannot fathom the often terrible realities of. Even having gay relatives…you just can’t. You can get angry on our behalf. You can witness injustices and wish to do something. But at the end of the day, you have 1100+ rights that we do not, and you will never know what that is like from the inside. Outsiders looking in.
I hate to say it, but straight people do not realize what real jerkoffs they are being when they come to our areas to argue with us. Probably never will. We get bombarded with your viewpoint all day, every day, get continuously ostracized and shut down. Then to come to where we think we are safe to tell our personal truths, we find you guys here squatting doing the same thing we came to get away from. That’s why we come off militant. You don’t seem like a bad guy, but I think you missed the entire point my post. I’ve this argument with straight people before. You never get it. Because you can’t. So I cannot hold it against you.
Shannon1981
sorry that was for michael- miami.
yasminlee
@Aiden @saywhat2 : I don’t think that it is right for A ts, gay, bi, st8, cat, dog or monkey to deceive anyone into having sex. It should always be consensual.IN real life. If i watch a movie where a character start beating up a gay man, I’m not gonna think oh I can’t believe they allow that to be shown, written or made. It is sending the wrong message to people. I’m gonna think that the character that is attacking is someone of that horrible nature in that movie. Anyone that goes to watch hangover, go home and start preaching that’s how they should live their life or take it to heart as a guidance for high moral insite should slap their parents for letting them see the movie in the first place. Plus where in the world are they gonna find a monkey smart enough to deal drug and perform sexual acts. This movie is a fantasy. To be honest, the only possibly realistic event that could happen in thailand is kimmy’s scene. Everything else is crazy over the top. If you’re gonna wait for movies, tv or anything that shows positive reflection of GLBT, expecailly the TS community then keep on watching reruns of Queer eyes for the st8 guy…by your assumption, everyone that watch boys don’t cry should go find ftm ts and beat and rape them. The ts community is very complex and the majority will not understand them via short roles in movies or tv here and there. Until the TS girls are offered roles as genetic girls replacing some of these hollywood actresses like angelina or charlize then any parts or any exposure is good exposure and extremely limited. This film remind the world that hey, we do exist. And if you want to learn more about us then google, or watch a positive betrayal of us on PBS. The last 10 years had been a TS boom in our community and it’s not because of amazing movie roles but rather internet porn and constant exposures in tv playing hookers and victims of hate crimes. So far, this last few days has been nothing but one conversation after another of people who just saw the movie and come up to me to say hi. None says oh wow it was kewl you rape stu. It was rather them seeing how normal I am. Actually in the middle of watching history channel “ancient aliens”…so take care now everyone..
Matt_miami
@Shannon1981: I will concede to most of your comments. When it comes to gay/lesbian issues your right, I would probably be best if I remain silent and allow your community to have a safe place to rant. I get it. That’s why I don’t have not giving my opinion on many of the issue brought up in this tread. e.g. Ts porn or TS roles in movies. That is not my place. I won’t comment on a gay issue unless it somehow is directly related to me and my own personal experiences as a straight male. than I will still try to be respectful.
On this particular tread, I have three points areas that I can relate to the issue that you cannot.
First, I have been to Thailand, I have lived in Thailand, my wife is Thai and our two kids are Thai/American. My sister-in-law is a tomboy still living over there. I know the country and understand the culture. So I feel I have an opinion commenting on a movie set in Thailand.
Second, Let’s not forget that Kimmie had sex with a straight guy. Not a gay guy or bi-guy. This sex happened in a go-go section of Bangkok. Not in a club for straight people. Having been there I can honestly say that there is 0% chance that Stu was confused about what was going to happen between Kimmie and him. The culture is different over there. I have know more than 1 friend come to Thailand and some how end up in bed with a Ladyboy. Only later to claim it happened because they were drunk and she tricked him. In Thailand were the boys look better than the girls, I say Bullshit to their excuse. they wanted it to happen. The scene in the movie is accurate, my point supported by yasminlee’s latest post.
Third, as a straight male who was deceived a long time ago by a post-op tranny, I have a frame of reference into this tread. since it is straight men that most TS are dating, it would seem acceptable to have someone represent the straight point of view.
So in closing I feel I have a valid point of view when talking about a TS/straight sex scene set in a Thai bar. If you see me posting on a tread related to Gay rights or any other gay specific tread than by all means tell me to shut the F up.
P.s. If your a very passable TS and go to straight bars/clubs to pick up straight men for a one night stand. There should be no confusing about who you are. If you do let them know before you leave the bar/club don’t blame them if they are angry when they see Mr. Winkie.
p.p.s. I dated the post-op for a couple of weeks, even though she was not honest at first, we broke up because she was violent, jealous and a little crazy.
no thanks
Hey Queerty, is there anything that you don’t find “transphobic”?
Now, I’m happy to not see any of these kinds of movies for sheer lack of interest, but seriously when did we become the unrelenting Thought Police?
no thanks
@Heather: Please save the queer theory dialectic for your gender studies class.
“I was watching the film in Vancouver, BC (I live in Portland, OR) and whenever @yasminlees’s body was exposed on screen 100s of people gasped in unison and cries of “that’s so wrong” were heard.
It broke my heart. It broke my heart because I felt that once again, the trans body, the queer body, the body that breaks rules that transgresses in any way but most importantly, the trans experience, was totally dismissed and used as a prop for cheep laughs.”
Agreed that this movie is ridiculous and stupid and yet another straight fat guy movie for straight fat guys to laugh at. Still, please cut the histrionics with regard to people’s reactions to a trans body. The fact of the matter is, and even at your own admission, that the trans experience is outside the established norms of our cultures, as flawed as those norms may be.
WE. CAN’T. IGNORE. THAT. WE. ARE. DIFFERENT.
We can’t demand that people accept experiences that differ from established cultural norms. We can only do our best to continue to tell stories that reshape those norms.
Why spend so much time policing everyone’s thoughts? Trans people should be inspired to seize the means of production and tell their own stories in film, documentary, literature, theater, music and any other art form that will stand in contrast to characterizations by the status quo.
We don’t win any battles by demanding that people accept something that challenges the albeit mal-formed, but stubbornly concrete cultural values that form their experience.
We can’t deny that to the heteronormative culture:
1. Trans is not “normal” because it subverts comfortable established constructs
2. Trans seems extreme because of the augmentation of the normative physical genitals that are somehow the center of gender identity for our culture. Cut off a man’s penis and he’s feminized, “half a man”. Create a penis for a woman and you’re a “circus freak”.
3. Subversion of these cultural “crutches”–for a lack of a better term– causes visceral reactions because people are afraid of change.
We have to accept that this is the CURRENT experience for heterosexual people who don’t understand or validate trans issues. Denying that experience will only serve to create a backlash against trans people.
What needs to happen is a larger, separate, and robust movement by trans people, independent of GLB groups that brings more visibility and validity to this experience.
Until that happens, trans people will be the “odd woman with the big hands on the train”, the “lady boy” sex worker, or “the tomboy” you went to college with who now has a beard.
It’s the homogenization (no pun intended) of “GLBTQQ” that continues to hold all of these groups back. We needed a united front in decades past to leverage influence and power.
Now we need to stand independent of one another, yet supporting one another, to achieve our vastly different goals.
Shannon1981
@Matt_miami: Matt, I have no real issue with you telling us about the Thai LadyBoy scene. I’ve no idea what that is like/about and appreciate the insight. My post was really taking issue with your calling us “militant” and “never satisfied.” Damn right we’re militant. With good fucking reason too.
As for this movie? I have not seen it and I won’t. I rarely find stuff like this funny. At all. So, despite the fact that trans people are treated with more respect where this is shot, its being aired in America where anyone who is anywhere on the LGBTTPQQUIA spectrum is treated like shit for the most part, hence making me take issue with it. Just another vehicle for the straights to use to make fun IMO.
Matt_miami
@Shannon1981: shannon I own a restaurant across the street from a University in the Northeast. I allow several student groups to use my space for meetings. One of them being the GLBT group. I have interacted with this group about (40 members) for over four years. I have also been involved in other ways since the mid 80’s. I’ve posted on these types of sites before. When I identify myself as straight man on a gay tread, I have been trashed. I log in as my sister and state the same idea and the idea is accepted. straight male=A-hole with no clue, gay women=she does have a point to consider.
I support the Alchemy club, the Computer science club, The GLBT club, The biology Club, the international students club. By far the club that has been the most difficult to work with is the GLBT club. years ago the gay community seemed happy. Now everything has become political and angry.
ps. I agree with post #50…she seems reasonable
SS
@jason: Why should transsexuals in porn be judged more harshly than cisgendered folks in porn?
Natalie
I really think a lot of people here really need to get off their high horses and realize a few things.
First of all, this movie is a comedy and should be regarded as such. I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I will. The scene reminds me of the classic scene in “Bachelor Party” where one of the characters meets a queen at a party and sees her later in the restroom peeing standing up LOL. Still one of the best comedies ever.
Anyway I digress…
I agree with Yasmine when she says we are all a part of the same GLBT family. You know what they say–united we stand, divided we fall. I find it sad that some of you think you’re better than someone else for whatever reason. You think transsexuals don’t belong, you think you can identify someone better than they can self-identify, and you think someone who’s straight cannot begin to understand your anger and frustration.
Well let me ask you, where does all this anger and frustration come from? Sounds like it’s internal if you ask me and honestly I don’t know how some of you will make it past 40 without giving yourselves a heart attack.
You desperately want to be normal and accepted as a part of society, yet ironically you are just as bigoted as the people who you call bigots. Funny that some of the worst discrimination comes from those within our own community. You know who you are and shame on you.
Aiden
@yasminlee: Your right, it does remind people that we exist, it also reminds people that we’re predators.
Sweetbrandigirl2004
I think you all should try looking up the definition of Transsexual because it’s not what Yasminlee is they call them lady BOYS for a reason it amounts to what we in the U.S call a she male. Part male part female. True HBS GID/GI Diagnosed Transsexuals can’t stand their male parts nor do they wish to use them or even touch them for that matter. That is the crux of the diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria.
So yasminlee and all her She male friends need top quit hiding behind the Term Transsexuals and call a spade a spade, because they’re use of the term is in part what gives transsexuals a bad name. Just like Transgender which is also different then Transsexual and has very different needs.
Shannon1981
@Matt_miami: Don’t we have a right to be angry? And we have to be political if we want our rights. Would you rather we remain content a second class citizens?
I truly appreciate the support though. I mean it, though my combative stance might not seem like it.
@Sweetbrandigirl2004: I think you need to stop trolling. After all this time it’s real fucking old.
Sweetbrandigirl2004
@Shannon1981: And you need to mind your own business My comments weren’t directed at you and I have as much right to post an opinion on this site and bout this issue as you do so bite me !
Shannon1981
@Sweetbrandigirl2004:This is an open thread in which I am participating. What you say is most certainly my business.
Matt_miami
@Shannon1981: You have the right to be angry. You also have the right to be happy. If given the choice I would choose to be happy. Being angry all the time takes too much energy.
You also have just as much right to be political as any other group. I’m a libertarian, I believe you own your body and what you do with your body is none of my business. As long as I don’t have to pay for your choices and your choices don’t harm me, I could care less. Honestly I don’t know why all GLBT people are not Libertarian, Republicans are not going to agree to gay marriages and Democrats keeps making promises they won’t keep. So why support either party?
I see mostly young kids 18-22 everyday, many of them are angry because they have few options in how they live their lives. They have little means of support and need there parents to help pay the bills. I can understand their frustration and anger for feeling trapped into living a lie. Of not being able to express who they truly are because they are hiding from Mom and Dad. But if your an adult and unhappy, than move to some place that will make you happy. Houses in Ft. Lauderdale are cheap now, the weather is great, the community is accepting and the people are beautiful. If your angry you have that right, but why not take control of your own life and make the necessary changes to make yourself happier, waiting for the political climate to change could take most of your life. That is tragic if you ask me.
lookyloo
I have a friend who prefers the company of ‘chicks-with-dicks’. He’s a bottom and he likes being topped by someone who is female appearing, yet has a dick.
He also has sex with ‘regular’ gay guys but he prefers ‘chicks-with-dicks’.
While we do refer to them as ‘she’ and ‘her’ because that’s what they prefer (and look like with clothes on) they don’t seem to qualify as transgendered to me because they want their femininity but they also TOTALLY want their manhood.
I mean, aside from the breast implants, they would be considered transvestites, I think.
I’ve always been too shy to bring up the subject of how they’d classify themselves.
yasminlee
@brandi. thank you for sharing your nonsense…The term ladyboy, shemale, tranny etc are all slangs. The reason why thailand pick it up is to simply communicate with the westerners. It is nothing more than a culture and language barrier. Everyone that are bilingual will understand that translation between languages are not accurate word by word. For example If i were to call someone a bitch I wouldn’t be able to say that in thai or khmer. I would have to say mi “kadoi”(u pussy). makes no sense but does for those who speak those 3 languages.
If you’re gonna sit there and google and try to define us. really take a couple months and read all studies and reasearches before you start preaching. I plan on having my sex change. not that I have to to be a transsexual. YOU are costing great harm to this community trying to find reasons to segregate us into and even smaller group. It’s very nazi germany 1940s. Oh well she’s blonde but her eyes are not quite as blue as mine. If you’re familiar with kinsey, he talked about how we can’t really label sexuality. Its an enless variable. Between point A being gay and point B being st8. How we are sexually will be the combination of dna hormones in our body as well as our social upbringing, environment and cultural influences.
Some are sitting here ranting on about how st8 people don’t understand us and the second Matt, a st8 man gives his opinion you start attacking him. You can’t get your point across to people by demanding they just only listen. Key to reaching out to one another for understanding is a two way communication. Btw Matt. I think u’re very smart and has a very deep understanding of our community and how the world works. I know that this is a community forum cater to GLBT but lets not start discriminating and shutting those we dont’ think quite belong in this forum world. It is just silly discriminate whiling chanting about discrimination.
No matter where we are in this sexual scale. st8, gay, bi, bi.25, st8.5, gay to the 3rd power. we are all here hoping for one purpose and that is the goal of unity. A world where a true queen can rule this land in her christian dior as the next president of the united state.
Brandy….please remember that you can’t achieve a whole if you keep on dividing.
Sweetbrandigirl2004
@yasminlee: OMG ! you No idea what your babble about. The kinsey scale doesn’t even cover transsexualism it’s a measure of orientation. The scale that covers ones level of transsexualism is the Harry Benjamin psychology scale and it’s looks like you might be a # 3 maybe a # 4 seeing how you enjoy using your male parts and don’t appear to have a problem having them, it would lead one to believe that having surgery is only a convenience for you not a must have. You are not a Classic or True transsexual.
http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/benjamin_gd.html
Matt_miami
@Sweetbrandigirl2004: WTF! I now get why some poster are hostile toward you Brandi. It seems your trying to undo the last 10 years. In the 70’s and 80’s the gay community just wanted to be left alone. In the 90’s they started to become more political. The argument started to change from “it’s our choice” to be “we were born gay”. A subtle change, but one with huge political implications. Genetic sexual programming is the pathway to protected status and equality for gays.
By constantly making the distinction between the sub-groups of TS, you are introducing the fact of choice and possible treatment for their sexuality. But the fact still remains that yasmin is gay. He is a man the has sex with men. The fact that he prefers to live 24/7 as a women, and has even had breast augmentation surgery doesn’t change the fact that he is a she except for some boy parts.
With your thinking you can remove Cross dressers from the community because they do it by choice. Also Bi men and women, because they are not 100% born gay if they switch teams. Your Benjamin Scale is used by Psychotherapist trying to treat sexual disorders. Why have these scales to measure sexuality if your really born gay. Is a femboy bottom more gay than the hairy chested lumberjack top? what your trying to do is create a caste system within the gay community.
Both the kinsey scale and benjamin scale are used to first measure, than treat homosexual behavior. If homosexuality is genetic than you can not treat it with psycho babble.
yasminlee
@brandi…you should really read what you wrote. what you are saying while hiding behind your cozy keyboard is very mean and vicious. I don’t know you but to be honest I don’t care to do so. I hope one day when you’re older and wiser and less angry, you’ll find it in your heart to forgive yourself. take care, I wish you all the best that life has to offer you.
Brin Convenient
@Sweetbrandigirl2004: As a bigender person, I have to listen to this TransPurity crap from time to time. Isn’t it enough that our gender-relationship with our bodies is dysphoric and painful and so far outside of the cis-norm that we are all exposed to these “deception/disclosure” smear tactics, transphobia, violence and rape that all of this internalized transphobia, internal backbiting and marginalization becomes counterproductive?
The bigoted, violent and aggressive trans/gay bashers of the world see no distinction between you – A TWOO TWANSSEXUAL ™ – and me. I am 18 months into HRT and live about half of my life as a woman and half as a man, and pretty damn passably in both cases, but if one of those @$$hats finds me out and about in a presentation counter to their expectations of my genitalia, and feels “deceived” or threatened, I’m at just as much risk of physical violence as you are. Why are you so quick to stand apart from me when our hypothetical attacker has us both in his crosshairs?
The operating definition I’ve always seen for transgender is anyone whose gender identity is, in any way, at odds with the gender identity assigned to them at birth based solely on their sex as determined by their genitalia. That includes TS’s as well as genderqueers, neutrois, androgynes, and bigender people like me. It is fine if you don’t want to stand under the same umbrella as me, but the battles I fight will benefit you, too.
The fact is, there just aren’t a whole lot of us trans people to begin with. We’re better off sticking together than standing apart.
Cj M
Yasmin, don’t worry, your logic will not penetrate brandi’s igneous skull. She hates her “physical defect” and just can’t understand that not EVERYONE has exactly the same level of dysphoric pathology.
Brandi’s vagina is gentrified.
And WAY better than yours could ever be.
Her being a REAL transsexual and all, and never having had to consider sex work. I’m sure she was too busy getting a pricey education and wink-and-a-nudge notes from her doctors to get her through transition to have to worry about something so BASE as sex work. Gosh, it must be hard in her ivory tower to think about all those FAKE transgenders out there, threatening HER gender identification, willfully selling their bodies, when they could be GOOD LITTLE GIRLS and go get a job at H&R Block or sommat.
Here in reality, Brandi, sex work doesn’t negate a woman’s gender identity. It sometimes keeps her from fucking starving, you entitled, overblown, pompous snot.
I mean, jesus brandi, you think that selling one’s body, either on the corner or at 29.95/mo on chixxwithdixx or whathaveyou is just something people…do? Nobody does that just because. As it turns out, being a transwoman in porn does a LOT to personally degrade a woman’s own self concept, and it really just has not one goddanmed thing to do with you or your arbitrary, narrow, self-congratulatory definition of your own gender.
Sweetbrandigirl2004
@Matt_miami: I agree Yasminlee is gay and that’s my very point. MTF Transsexual true mtf transsexuals have the brain gender of the opposite sex, their not gay men. They truly live life’s that are a lye until they get counseling a diagnosis and have surgery once through transition they’re lives can return to normal. Also Matt there is a huge difference between HBS Transsexuals and these individuals who are under the ?Transgender umbrella. The vast majority of them Never have counseling nor get a diagnosis nor do they follow or care what the steps of the SOC (Standards of Care) say. They don’t following them and could care less about safe hormone therapy and take internet hormones without the approval of or supervision of a doctor, never having blood work done.. Likewise Matt most transgender people aren’t “Driven” to have GRS and that’s key, because being driven to have surgery is a key indicator of whether one has GID/GI or not. it’s not the only Indicator but its one.
Your statement that ” The fact that he prefers to live 24/7 as a women, and has even had breast augmentation surgery doesn’t change the fact that he is a she except for some boy parts.”
Uh Matt those boy parts as you put it are the single most Important Indicator of ones gender in our society, your statement is like saying a pickup truck is a car except for it having a bed instead of a trunk.
While the vast types of gender variant people are in total small they are vast and varied true TS women are among the fewest and rarest. Being that GID/GI only happens 1 out of 50,000 births.
Matt_miami
@Sweetbrandigirl2004: Brandi to the layman your making a distinction without a difference. More simply to a non-expert they don’t know the difference and your diagnosis comes off as elitism.
To grossly over simplify the point; to a lion all zebra’s are black and white. But some zebra identify as being white with black strips and others are black with white strips. While the white zebra’s are fighting with the black zebra’s the lion is getting fat.
I looked over the HBS TS information, while clinically it seems plausible, it seems like it only takes into account those who seek therapy. Under those conditions the HBS for measuring the TS disorder is flawed because it doesn’t account for those not seeking therapy.
To assume that all tranny’s(sorry, brevity) fall somewhere on a chart with only 6 possibilities seems lazy and over simplified.
sorry to keep using yasmin as an example, but, who knows what she will eventually do. Maybe at this point in time she is happy with who she is and what she is doing. In the future she may decide that she needs to transition more. maybe she won’t. but if she is comfortable with herself than continue to allow her and others like her to self-diagnose and treat.
in another overly simple example; I liken it to eating spicy food. nobody starts of eating habanero’s or Thai chili’s. they start with jalapeno’s than serrano peppers and gradually move up to hotter chilis on the scoville scale. The scoville measure the spiciness of peppers similar to your Benjamin scale measures severity in Transexuals. but neither scale can account for personal taste. e.g. i like my mexican food extra spicy but my curries mild. for this reason I see a flaw in your benjamin scale.
I hope this helps to move the dialog along to a better understanding for everyone. thanks for the considerate chat brandi
Brin Convenient
Upon further consideration, I’m almost sure that Sweetbrandigirl2004 is trolling.
Maya N Kasper
I am a post op TS woman, and know Yasmin through the grapevine. Innate a 33,000$ vagina, the rolls royce of vaginas, perfect, and although she may desire to keep her penis and penetrate men at times, she is all woman, definately not a man. You are uneducated fools and haters. I’m sure any strait men on this forum would jevermbe able to hook up with such a gorgeous woman without paying for it. Flame me if you I don’t give a crap, I’m gorgeous as well, and will not check this forum again because it is futile. Good day.
Maya N Kasper
Grrr I hate iPad spellcheck. It should read, “I have a 33,000$ vagina” instead of “innate”. Also, “jeverbre” should read “never be able”
Matt_miami
@Maya N Kasper: Brandi cherry picked one sentence of mine to redirect her attacks. My intention was to cut through brandi’s psycho babble and point out that technically all TS are one under the Gay umbrella and to stop trying to make minute distinction because it is impossible to know what every TS is thinking or felling. I apology to anyone that has taking anything i have said to be negative. This is an example of why these type of boards never really get anywhere. It is too easy to lose track of complex issues.
Felciia Katt
Anyone who think a TS is only “no dick” doesn’t know dick. Having surgery doesn’t make you more a woman nor does not having it make you any less of one. Gender is what’s behind your eyes not whats behind your fly. Yasmin’s role in the movie is a positive one for the community. This article was a positive one about it. And all these negative comments by people who don’t know Yasmin and who will never know the kind of success she has earned can’t change that. She is the headline and her haters here are nothing but petty footnotes
Felciia Katt
Anyone who think a TS is only “no dick” doesn’t “know dick”. Having surgery doesn’t make you more of a woman nor does not having it make you any less of one. Gender is what’s behind your eyes not whats behind your fly. Yasmin’s role in the movie is a positive one for the community. This article was a positive one about it. And all these negative comments by people who don’t know Yasmin and who will never know the kind of success she has earned can’t change that. She is the headline and her haters here are nothing but petty footnotes.
FK
Kelly Shore
You disgusting harpies! How dare you put yourself on a pedestal!
I have been living as a girl since age 12 – I am now 29! Through the years I have seen loads of psychologists just to say I was able to go to school as a girl – get on hormones – get surgeries and what not!
I have done porn and I have been an activist for the LGBT community. I was the first transsexual secretary of St. Pete PRIDE. We beat out all the other cities in Florida that held PRIDE the year that I was the secretary and entertainment director!
I have spoken to 100’s of colleges about transsexual awareness and still help out my community through my blog. By helping young transitioners with make up tips, hair removal, advice, hormone tips, and more!
How dare you set up on a pedestal who are probably not doing SHIT for your community, but hiding behind a message board. If you want to do something go out there and get ACTIVE – instead of looking down on someone who is in some way making transsexuals RELEVANT in somebody’s life!
At least Yasmin has the guts to put herself out there and be the crack of a joke!
And I’m sorry I didn’t find the film offensive at all! They were not rude to Yasmin’s character. He was also freaking out that he cheated on his fiance…and they said the stuff about her being a chick with a dick etc when Yasmin wasn’t even around!
They basically moved on from it pretty fast!
It sickens me how our own community is more judgmental and hateful than any other community!
It sickens me that people can’t see that this part could lead to something bigger for Yasmin so she can play a part of her choice or something that does send a great message.
Most actors and actresses take roles that necessarily doesn’t fit what they want, but it gets them started down the right path.
And one other thing sexual acts do not make your personality. I know plenty of feminine gay men who are total tops. Them as tops don’t you think should act like a butch man? I know plenty of butch gay men that are total bottoms.
So please lay off your craziness, judgement, and sentimental bullshit.
While you guys are bitching and judging – the rest of us are doing something for the community by speaking out or doing activism or playing roles in movies that throws it in middle America’s face!
A lot of people need that shock treatment, and I have always believed the best way to educate someone is by a little comedy! Taking big issues and putting it to some comedy.
Sadly writing this,
Kelly
sammivalentine
lol at whatever muppets definition of a true transsexual is ^^ , are you like Harriot harmen on steroid or some shit?. Surely most people realise by now, (after all it is 2011 )- that life is far to complex to simply label and box people off.
Every transsexual is different with regards to where exactly she is comfy at on the spectrum, physically and mentally. She could be happy pre-op, wants or needs castration or must have SRS.
If you cant handle that then that is your problem. Oh and some people please try and pick up on the difference between gender and sexuality.
Well done on getting the job yasmin 🙂
Ashlee Belle
Quite simply, I absolutely REFUSE to let 5% of my physical body that most of the world will never see define who I am!!! Would I like to have SRS? Bet your ass I would!!! Would I prefer to have a regular job, and a regular relationship, and a regular life like most girls? You can bet your ass I’d take that offer in a second!!! But I don’t live in fantasy land I live in the real world. And here in the real world I have to make a living, and survived any way I can that I can live with. If that means I sell my body to survive then so fucking be it! If that means I can’t rearrange my penis in to a vagina because of lack of funds then so fucking be it! I’m not going to let THOSE obstacles or any judgmental bitches stand in my way of leading a full and complete life as the woman I was born to be.
Sweet Brandi your definition of a transsexual is both ill informed and incomplete. You attempt to make it in a vacuum where all transsexuals have unlimited funds and access to immediate medical care and surgery without resorting to desperate measures. So are you saying you weren’t a transsexual before you had your surgery but now you are? I call major bullshit on that, and only the most fringe medical community members would agree on your very narrow view of the condition. Are you so ignorant that you aren’t aware that a clitoris is much the same as a penis is in it’s form and function where sexual arousal is concerned (not talking about the issues of fertility here JUST sexual arousal)? Are you so sheltered that you’ve never heard of a lesbian genetic female that likes to top using a strap on penis to fuck her partner? Does that behavior make her less of a woman then you because you are post op and do not have that type of sexual orientation?
Honestly I strongly believe you know better then that and that you are simply a troll, one of those self hating people who regrets the choices you’ve made in life, and who feel it is your God given right to judge others based on your own narrow vision of the world. Well you can cram that where the sun doesn’t shine. If I want that kind of behavior there is a whole world out there of straight people just dying to give it to me. At least when they do it it’s not completely hypocritical and self destructive.
Oh and if you knew half as much as you think you do, you’d know that gender is defined between your ears, not between your legs!
Joe Krash
After reading all this I wonder if the reason they try and attack Yasmin is for the simple fact that they didn’t have a chance at the role. Now on to some truths you may not like to hear. NO COMMUNITY has a chance to move forward when there are people who do nothing but attack someone else for NO REASON. Well I take that back you attack Yasmin because she is Yasmin. Not for the movie or her part in it. You have some mindset that if she does something its automatically wrong. I am transsexual or transgendered…no but I can see a venomous attack on a person when I see it. These attack are nothing but that. But then I guess you would rather have women play the part in movies. You would love it if you are still a Taboo or spoken about in hushed tones. What Yasmin did was a freaking service to your community. Only your hateful words will set your community back 10 years. Where was your anger for other Movies like Escape from LA or The Naked Gun series????If you don’t know what I am talking about look the movies up! No those were fine because you still want to live as a dirty little secret. You want to live in the shadows for some reason.
OK now on to those who for some reason want to treat this movie as real life. GROW UP! And two is a flipping comedy. Maybe you should watch movies period. Yes I said that because you cant seem to separate real from fantasy.
jf2good
OMG you haters. I am a guy, I don’t call myself STR8 or Gay or Bi or whatever. I love women, be they 100% genetic or born with a dick, I love them with a pussy, with a dick, with tits, without, and so on as long as your a women. Clearly Yasmin Lee is a beautiful women.
Now some of you hate her and judge her and throw the first stone, yet you too are not sin free. I don’t judge anyone doing porn or working a prostitute, working on a webcam, or whatever. Just because someone works in the sex industry does not make the a bad and immoral person You should only judge a person if they want to do you harm or harm others. Judge a person based upon their heart and how the respect others, not because of their circumstances in life. You don’t know their life, you don’t live it, so don’t judge.
I can’t believe that some off you judge people on whether they are a top or bottom and so on. Sex can be a beautiful thing, no matter whether your getting it in the ass or doing it to someone else, of just doing the plain old missionary position.
It never surprises me how many gay hating gay people are out there or how many transgendered people hate other transgendered people.
I would not consider myself a member of the LGBT community, yet I don’t hate you, I don’t judge you as you get enough of that from people outside your community.
Live and let live. Thank you for listening.
Putergurl
The producers of this movie didn’t have to say anything negative about transsexuals in the movie, they already knew what the reaction would be and they banked on it for shock value. If that weren’t the case, they would most certainly have promoted Yasmin’s participation loudly before the movie was distributed. That’s called exploitation.
The average viewer isn’t going to see a positive role model in Yasmine when those scenes come up, due exactly to the way it was presented. Denying that and cloaking the justification in anything else is ignorant.
Porn stars have already proven they are willing to prostitute themselves and be exploited for money. Yasmine is no more remarkable or admirable than any prostitute; dragging transsexuals along with him makes him reprehensible. The fact he is beautiful just displays the shallowness of the people who want to adulate him.
And yes, I called Yasmine him. No self respecting woman with the option would do this, and I don’t care whether he keeps his cock or not. He’ll always be nothing more than a pretty male prostitute for the rest of his life.
Kelly Shore
@Putergurl: You are so disgusting..did you ever think past the end of your nose?
Did you ever think middle America needed some shock?
Did you ever think that she was brave to put herself out there and be the center of a joke?
Did you ever think that most psychologist don’t think the way you do.
And darling lets face it! Post-op, non-op, top, bottom, and what have you. The straight community will always view us as MALES with surgery. So get off your pedestal!
Not to mention the ones walking around looking like Fred Flinstone with a vagina aren’t doing us much good either. They would have to lift their skirt up for anyone to actually believe that was a woman.
Genitalia is such a small piece of the body and yet you are so focused on it.
As far as I’m concerned femininity is between the ears!
And please can you list what you have done for your community besides berate someone for doing something and putting themselves out there?
I have always believed that comedy is the best way to make light of big issues and to open people’s minds.
So doll 🙂 your wrong to persecute Yasmin and so wrong for calling her a HIM!
You are no better than the thousands that persecute gay, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgenders day in and day out.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Kelly
Kelly Shore
And if anyone is setting us back it’s ourselves, because we don’t fight for our issues well enough.
The LGBT wanted to drop the T, because the T never represented themselves. They are more than welcome to be on boards and fight for their rights. And a gay man and a lesbian woman can’t speak out for transsexuals, because they aren’t sure exactly where we come from or what’s always right to say.
You guys bitch up a storm – but then do NOTHING for your community.
Brandy Monroe
For all you haters and elitist transsexual women out there, what a crock. Yasmin Lee is fabulous and has done nothing but empower, not only herself, but the entire trans community. We praise natal born women, whether they are lesbian or hetero, who are in Playboy, Penthouse and other purely adult publication; to date one or be one is a status coup. We praise natal born women that do porn, hell, there are HBO, Showtime and Cinemax shows galore about it! Secret Diary of a Call Girl on BBC America is all about an English girl, played by ex Dr Who star Billie Piper, who plies her wares in the sex-for-sale industry. Gee, I haven’t heard anyone bent out of shape over her role as a negative representation of womanhood. We don’t get up in arms when we watch the goings on at the Bunny Ranch on HBO. So why all the negativity when it happens to be a transsexual like Yasmin or me for that matter working in the adult field? Are you jealous or just bitter? The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
A couple points at issue:
The term tranny is not a pejorative – it is simply short for transsexual – simple.
Having SRS surgery does not “fix you” or make you more of a woman. It is a fact now that transsexuality is inborn, we were born this way. They have identified the genes The Sydney Morning Herald, BBC reports so not having SRS surgery and forced into a binary gender paradigm in no way makes us any less of a woman. Does a natal female that has had a hysterectomy and mastectomy make her any less a woman? No, it does not. Again, a no brainer!
Transsexuals girls are not guys with boobs. We are not guys at all. The physiological empirical data is there to see: http://aebrain.blogspot.com/p/reference-works-on-transsexual-and.html nor does it make a man that dates a transsexual female a gay man. We are simply exotic women.
Guys that date transsexual women are NOT gay or bi. I have dated several men, all straight, that love transsexual women because most of us are more feminine that natal women. No sweats and t-shirts here dear. No Birkenstocks, either. I don’t even own a pair of sweats. Guys love our femininity and we work very hard at being the best possible woman. We take pride in our womanhood. Gay men want men. Bi men again, if not with a woman, want a man. Sorry but they ain’t gonna find that here.
Transsexuals are not part of the gay community, just ask any gay man! I have been living as a woman and active in the GLBT community for a very long time. I was VP of a 27-year-old G&L publishing company for over 11 years. What I have seen would shock you. I have been physically attacked several times by gay men and have in several cities experienced gay men calling me “a freak of nature” and telling me to my face “that’s right Brandy, you’re not a he or a she your an it.” This after I ask why bearded men with furry chests refer to each other as she and yet an obviously feminine person with no facial hair and big beautiful D breasts is referred to as he and him. Trans rights and trans people are NOT respected by the gay community and many of our rights are removed from legislation with the promise that once on the books “we’ll get back to you” afterwards. NOT even close. The anniversary of Stonewall Riots is now referred to as Gay Pride, when Sylvia Rivera, a transsexual activist, was identified as throwing the 2nd Molotov cocktail that day. Initiated by transsexuals and lesbians trans people have been written out of history. When CA had trans inclusion on the Gov Gray Davis’s desk he asked his lesbian advisor what he should do, “Trans rights are off color” was her reply. He vetoed it. It was not until he was being recalled that he signed in trans inclusion into state law. He needed our votes.
Why all the fear? Your animosity and hate only illustrate your deeper desire to either be one of us or date one of us. Yasmin is a sexy and uber feminine FEMALE. She is intelligent and using her God given beauty and charm for success and as a positive role model. Sex is good. God made sex and sadly, man made war. Personally, I would rather everyone were having more sex, there would be less bitching and more smiles. Kudos to you Yasmin.
Brandy
Brin Convenient
@Kelly Shore: “Not to mention the ones walking around looking like Fred Flinstone with a vagina aren’t doing us much good either. They would have to lift their skirt up for anyone to actually believe that was a woman.”
Excluding this, I’m right with you. Don’t those women you refer to have enough trouble in their lives by struggling to pass without you beating them up about it? I agree that we all, as trans people, need to stop the divisive in-fighting if we want to make any progress, but that starts with compassion for those who have the hardest struggles (i.e., those who don’t have the resources or funds to obtain legal and safe treatment, those who work in the sex trade out of desperation and not by choice, homeless trans-identified and LGB people, and, yes, the men and women whose early exposure to estrogen or testosterone severely impact their ability to pass safely).
As an activist, I’d hope you’d know better than to advance the cause of some by throwing others under the bus.
PuterGurl and Brandi are the same kind of self-hating, elitist, privileged snobs and bigots who make it harder for all of us to advance. Why should cisgendered people ever examine their biases against us when some of our own make the same transphobic arguments that the cis bigots use? Why would anyone want to be a cis ally when we don’t even have trans allies?!
Kelly Shore
@Brin Convenient: I mentioned those girls, because they are usually the ones berating and putting themselves on pedestals doll.
I have come across many like that through all my years of activism. They put themselves on a pedestal, because they are post-op or they don’t top.
Brin Convenient
@Kelly Shore: That wasn’t clear to me in the way you phrased it. Certainly not all trans women with difficulty overcoming the effects of T are putting themselves on pedestals and not all trans women putting themselves on pedestals have trouble passing. Let’s not let the passing self-haters off the hook and put the positive and helpful not-quite-passing women on it.
Bella Bellucci
ATTENTION CISGENDERED PEOPLE: We are among you and we hide where you least expect it: right in plain sight. ‘Men,’ indeed.
That is all.
~BB~
yasmin
thank you so much for your voices everyone. Some of the stuff that people are saying is just very sad. I was born during a war with bullets flying over my head. And though I was a baby and didn’t remember the 40 plus friends and relatives executed, I hear it day after day from my older sisters and parents. I was spoon-fed struggle is part of life and living is not living without understanding, love, and compassion. It really is upsetting to see this craziness within our community. We really need to stick together, for there are bigger battles out there. Who else but the ones here that will stand by your side against the wrath of society. Reading this is emotionally exhausting, but don’t take this as me being weak. A stranger approach and I will always do my best to educated ignorant in the form of love. But if they still choose to continue on with that hate, I’m just simply sad. SAD from wanting for them a life on a path that is that much more lit. I know who I am in this life and don’t think for a second you can stand a chance tearing me down, if that is your intention. I Am a warrior. I was born without your permission, live without your permission, and will die without your permission.
SayHey
I still don’t understand transgender..i saw this funny comment on a CNN about the 3rd Gender craziness in Nepal.
“I‘m a female in a males body that is also transgendered but straight. I‘m albino black, born Jewish
and now practice Christianity when I’m not Atheist. I work nights during the day and vote Republican
but registered Dem…”
Bella Bellucci
@SayHey: It’s quite simple really. Gender identity and sexual orientation are two completely separate concepts and a person’s gender identity is controlled by their brain, not their genitals.
The complication comes when we take these facts against the context of a world of people who mostly take for granted the fact that their gender identity and physical body are a match, because about 98% of the time, that is the case. But more importantly, gender is also a social construct based on a false binary that is fundamentally arbitrary for anything other than creating offspring, and even still, that doesn’t mean than a barren woman isn’t still a woman.
Some people are born intersexed (formerly known as hermaphrodites) even. Their differences range from cross-sexual chromosomes to ambiguous genitalia. Furthermore, throughout history there have been many societies that not only have identified, but also accepted these natural anomalies within the human species. Some even consider people of transgender experience to be akin to goddesses or in touch with a higher vibrational plane.
So a quick question for cis males: if you woke up with an undesired vagina tomorrow, would that make you a woman? No, of course not, because your brain still tells you that you’re a man. If you have the right to self-determine on that basis, then so to trans people. I mean what man, what REAL man, would want to take estrogen, wear womens’ clothes, and relinquish their male privilege?
If one really stops to think about it instead of resorting to knee-jerk reactions, it’s really not all very complicated, just difficult to accept because most people have never actually met a transgender person… and yet they judge.
I pity those who go through life with eyes closed.
~BB~
lilmissDEE
@Sweetbrandigirl2004:I cannot help but feel sad for you. You are obviously still confused of what you really are and in lack of acceptance of who you really are. You basically live your life through labels and tags this society made to define who and what you are. Sweetie, you should really wake up and start to live your life as WHO YOU ARE and not the “transexual/gender” this soceity suggest you are. THESE are just tags and labels and it cannot define who and what you are–a HUMAN BEING! Unfortunately, the world is all about these labels/tags to classify people…the queen Bs and the wannabes, the rich, middleclass, poor, 1st class, economy etc…we already know it works like that..and i am fine with it…but for you to become (heres more labels for you) a close-minded ignorant self-righteous b&^^ch is so tragic. Why not come up with a new term or title that you can label yourself with your transexual highness. Common sweetie! wake up!
ps. yasmin youre so gorgeous in the movie and I am proud of you. From one transexual to another!! 🙂
drake
the movie’s funny as hell. & that’s my favorite scene. i’m a straight dude & i never knew anything about transgendered until i saw kelly mantle on tv a few years ago. she’s my favorite transgendered actress. she blew my mind & i wouldn’t have any problem being in a relationship with a transgendred girl especially if shes as hot & talented as kelly mantle or yasmin. its good to see more roles in the mainstream for these talented girls.
miranda
hey author – are you as garbage at being cis as you are at writing titles?
Dreamer
Interesting series of comments here – it makes a person realize a few things. First, that there are a lot of thoughtful people who are trying to consider how this movie and other “T” representations in the media affect the T community, LGBT community, and society in general. Second, that there are a lot of emotions that arise when people talk about this, that come forth as anger or sadness or cynicism, or humor and praise, and sometimes divide this community – even in this small forum. And lastly, that there are definitely many people who saw this and felt like the object of a joke made at their expense.
As a guy who hasn’t yet seen this movie, but has heard about this scene from friends and from online reviews, I must say that I agree with the people who think that this doesn’t help the community and in fact probably distorts the image of trans women in society in general. Even though Yasmin says that people have walked up to her and said that she is normal, I feel like that is something that happens because of who she is as a real person, and in SPITE of who she played in the movie. As in, “oh, I’m surprised that you are a normal person in real life, because you didn’t seem that way in the movie.”
I also take issue with the idea that porn and the depiction of trans women as hookers and victims on TV and in movies is the only way that society has gained awareness of trans people – while that may be true for many in society, this has probably only contributed to society’s perception that a trans person is always a freak or a sex worker and that they can’t possibly be anything or anyone else. It seems similar to saying that a certain extreme, fundamentalist sect of Christians or Muslims have made more people aware about religion, even though it’s not representative of those religions and is not the most positive stereotype and makes people think badly about those religions. That kind of awareness requires years of re-education in order to correct the wrong beliefs people develop.
Finally, I think a big conflict here exists between how Yasmin thinks she is portraying trans women in Thailand vs. how this comes across to Westerners and Americans who live in a society where trans people are definitely NOT all sex workers nor should they be expected to be. The message seems not to be matched up for the appropriate audience because it will be generalized to all women, not just Thai women.
For those saying to take it easy, it’s just a joke… it’s one thing to make a joke tongue-in-cheek, but another to make a joke at a group’s expense, and if people are perceiving this as the latter in droves, then which do you think it is?
I do appreciate that Yasmin is on this forum and has done an interview on this topic, even though I’d disagree with her reasoning behind her decision to play the scene. Everyone has to find the right choice for themselves and I applaud her strength and her perseverance despite all she’s been through, even though I disagree with her choice here.
Matt_miami
@Dreamer: Yasmin’s scene in the movie is over in 90 sec. How has the 1994 movie “Ace Venture, The Pet Detective” hurt the transgender community, that movie made an even bigger deal in the movie that Finkel was Einhorn and Einhorn was Finkel. Crying game reference, vomiting in trash can, jim carry scraping his tongue after kissing the tranny Finkel/Einhorn. That movie negatively betrayed Tranny’s in many ways. First they used a real women, second she was a crazy murderer, Thirdly by showing how disgusted everyone was when they found out Lt. Einhorn was actually Ray Finkel the ex-football player. Remember all the detectives spitting and washing their mouths after Lt. Einhorn was Outed. That was 17 years ago.
Now today, in a movie where a straight guy is topped by a tranny, Bareback and receives the mother load. The reaction to this news is mild. The joke was made and the movie moved on. The bigger joke was that they came at the same time and that Stu liked it. He was embarrassed that his friends found out and felt guilty that he cheated on his soon to be wife.
You mention how you don’t like the depiction of trannies as sex workers or prostitutes in movies or TV. The fact is, this is reality. remove CDer’s, and transvestites from the group and it is difficult of MTF trannies to gain legal employment(for Brevity, give me a pass on FTM). Even those with real professional experience. e.g. I could not go to work one day a Matt the Manager and the next day go in as Matilda the Manager. I would lose my job. these are complicated issues with many moving parts, so don’t begrudge people that do sex work to pay the bills. It’s art imitating reality.
Your last point about Thailand. They are much more excepting of the “Third Sex” over there. If you are an educated Ladyboy you can get a job almost any where in Thailand. Thailand is much more image oriented than here, so good looks is at a premium. Many Ladyboy’s excel at customer relations positions, PR, Tourist industry, Fashion and Entertainment. Labor is cheap over there so these are generally higher paying jobs than average.
Basically yasmin’s role is nothing new in movies, she has not harmed the transgender community. What does hurt the community is when straight people are used instead of real trans people like that horrible movie< To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything. come on where is the outrage that Patrick Swayze, Wesley Snipes and John Legazamo are three drag queens. Who is watching that stupid movie, no one. They hurt the transgender movement by using straight men that look like men in dresses.
in closing, if not Yasmin than it would have been someone else, maybe some Thai citizen that nobody knows. good for her, I bet here movie sales have gone up a lot.
Dreamer
@Matt_miami: I haven’t seen either of those movies. 🙂 And my points were about this movie, not this movie in comparison to other movies.
From what I understand, like you said, “the joke was made” even if they moved on afterwards. So that attitude enters the consciousness of millions of viewers, worldwide. It’s not a situation where it’s clearly satirical, either, because intelligent and thoughtful members of the trans community who watched the movie felt in significant numbers like they were the object of the joke.
No, I don’t like the depiction of trans people as sex workers – when it’s done to make that character the butt of a joke. Also, it’s reality, you say? Does that mean that whenever we cast a trans person in a movie, they should be a sex worker because there are many sex workers who are transgender? Is that reality? Are all the trans women you know sex workers? I hardly think so. Also, nowhere did I say that I begrudge people that do sex work to make money in order to survive – I definitely do not agree with that decision but I know that people sometimes are forced to make tough choices and put into desperate situations without any options.
Thanks for describing the situation in Thailand a little clearer. That actually supports the idea that Yasmin is incorrect in believing that most transgender people in Thailand are sex workers, if they are better respected and able to more easily secure jobs in customer relations, etc. So her role isn’t really representative of the Thai trans community then, either.
I haven’t seen that last movie you’re talking about, either. 🙂 But I do agree that more positive role models, in entertainment and elsewhere, need to be around for the trans movement, and hopefully that will increase in the future.
I know that if Yasmin didn’t do it, someone else probably could have, but the point is that someone did it and it probably reinforced negative stereotypes for a worldwide audience.
Matt_miami
@Dreamer: lets agree to disagree to the long term effects of trans in comedy movies. IMO Ace ventura and To Wong Foo are much worse for their depiction of TS people than Hangover 2.
Sex Work in Thailand very basically comes down to education and poverty. Thailand still has a caste system. most Female sex workers are either sold into the trade by their parents or are runaways or orphans. There is no welfare over there, you either work or you starve. Ladyboys with an education and good families get real jobs. there is enough of a financial pull to draw a higher level of ladyboy into the sex trade in thailand. Many work as freelance girls. work in office by day, pick up farang(foreigners) on the weekend. females do this also. usually as a supliment to their monthly salary because they have a low position. A good Ladyboy could easily make 30,000-40,000 baht a month freelance. a school teacher for 20 years in thailand would make about 25,000-30,000 a month. their are many thai youth that freelance in the tourist areas of Thailand. In Thailand it is more exceptable to be openly gay, even in high school. I have seen many teenage boys wearing make-up and lipstick. There is no hiding who you are over there unless you come from a very respected family. You can find many teenage ladyboys that have already had breast implants and are living full time as girls. It is easier over there because the boys are very skinny and have a smaller frame than american kids.
I think you miss-understood what i was trying to say about TS sex work in america. Employers are not as understanding here. Corporate image and litigation is very high in America. Unless your a hairdresser, make-up artist, self employed, involved in the entertainment industry or specialty promotions, where can someone who was living as a man suddenly come in as a girl and remain employed. These issue do come up, Corperate america gets scared, doesn’t want a lawsuit and pushes the person out, as legal as possible. these are complicated social economic issues to explain in a one way conversation.
check all three movies out, they are worth watching at least once.
yasminlee
I got a personal email from a transgender lady telling me she was very disappointing in me for taking that job, (which will pay my bills for a year) because she felt that everyone was laughing at her in that movie and make her feel ashamed and embarrass. I did personally apologize that she has to go through something like that but not because it was something I had done. That role is there with or without me. That moment in that theater with all those mocking or non mocking, laughing or non, crying or not, those emotions and responds is the clear reality of how society currently depict us. It’s sad but unavoidable. She sat there that day having to face that reality and that’s why she was sad. However, people don’t get to know that Ts exist by waiting for the next discovery channel documentary, or the 1 out of 1000 episode of oprah show. They do so by being among the 10 of millions that see this movie and other tv shows with those very limited roles. And i’m sorry to say again usually the roles of hookers or crime victims, or the punch line of a joke. These roles we don’t have control over because our community is not the power player in the entertainment business. We are being string along like the rest. The role of kimmy is not to be look into as a role model or a representation of anything. It’s simply one circumstances of an encounter in thailand with a ladyboy in a comedy about a bunch of guys and their crazy night. Wouldn’t be as funny if while he’s drunk he went to see a TS girl to let her help him with his taxes because I’m sure somewhere out there are TS women that works for H&R block. I can only hope that all that see the movie will talk about that scene, and somewhere along their conversations with others they will talk to someone that will explain to them our community. Or guys that might spark and interested and start their google journey. Lastly, I don’t really see the argument with TS girls working in the sex industry. Yes i know many girls that have regular jobs, and each year that number increase. I can say that for everyone one girl I know that have a regular job it’s nowhere near the amount that I know are working. These are the 20s and 30s age bracket btw. So again, sad but reality. When it comes to putting ourself out there it’s all about exposure. The more exposure we have the more opportunities we give for ignorance to educated themselves.
Dreamer
@yasminlee: Hello Yasmin. First of all, if this is really you responding, I just wanted to say again that I’m glad that you decided to come onto this forum, be open about discussing this topic through interviews etc., and appear to have been thoughtful about making this decision to take part in this movie. Most people I feel, wouldn’t go to such trouble and don’t care enough to do so. Also, knowing that you’ve been through a lot of tough times in your life, I’m happy that you were able to benefit from a role in such well-known movie as Hangover, and hope that it helps your career.
I wanted to say that I still do disagree with you on the idea that “any publicity is good publicity,” and to hopefully explain better why I think this way. You say that these types of roles are the only ones that trans women can get as they edge into the public consciousness…. I say, yes, it’s hard for an actress belonging to any visible minority group to find roles at first, but why take on a role if it’s just to portray the same, old, hurtful stereotypes? It just seems like a very utilitarian means to an end of increasing “awareness” even if that awareness is a bunch of people enjoying a jab at trans women without any likelihood that they will come out of that exposure any more willing to learn about the community (in fact, with their stereotypes confirmed, they’re more likely to avoid those conversations, don’t you think?). You’re right, maybe some guys will go “start their google journey,” but do you think that’s what builds tolerance and acceptance of trans women, or further exploitation through the adult and sex industry? I’d hope that even 1 out of 100 of those guys would eventually wake up to the fact that trans women shouldn’t be treated like pieces of meat or fantasy objects, but I think even that’s optimistic. Please correct me if you think I’m wrong on any of this.
It’s one thing to take on a role like that for money and fame, and if that’s what someone gets out of it, then it’s their prerogative to do so. But making the argument that it will increase awareness in a positive way just seems to me like a bit of a reach to try and explain this as somehow good for the T community.
Like you personally said, you’ve already interacted with a trans woman who felt hurt and laughed at when she saw audiences, millions and millions of people, have laughed over and over again at this scene. How does the act of reinforcing (or teaching anew) this hurtful stereotype help her, or other adults grappling with their gender identities, or even kids trying to look for role models or even some depiction of what a trans person is capable of doing or becoming? I think it just feeds the machine that makes her feel disenfranchised, laughed at, and generally unsupported by society at large, in the first place.
Maybe I’m wrong to think that this is the impact, but it worries me to see people around me burst out laughing while I know that there are others dying inside to see that reaction in people sitting around them. Know what I mean?
yasminlee
@dreamer.I think you and some are under the assumption that the purpose of my existence is to cater to the higher cost of the ts community. Or that I’m so wealthy that I can sit on my throne and pick and choose all the roles that comes to me, with the option of taking one where it’s no doubt in my head and yours that it’s a winner for the glbt community. Christian morals check. Exclude anything that has to do with sex working, check. never mind these girls makes up the majority of the ts community. We want girls that are good in the eyes of those judging us in the first place because it’s hard enough trying to win their approval with mass inventory of duct-tape. Lets not let girls that want it all hanging out be someone that represent us. The role of kimmy is not as far a stretch to reality as most of you would like to coat it. Though our community is extremely high on my list what’s first and foremost is the survival of me. If i’m steve bing, the executive producer of this movie, CEP of WB, or even the writer of many developed scripts then I would understand some of the rage toward me and this role.
As for any press is good press. You have to understand the exception of our circumstances and that we are where we are today not from all the amazing protesting and marches because we are so united, but from the explosion of porn with the internet. This exposure ripple on to mainstream and their awareness lead to them writing us into their world. They world is them expose to us and their curiosity will encourange them to seek info on us. which lead to activist talking about it on their facebook, myspace, forum and finally reach a cross path with these seeker of truth. It all start from them being introduce to it at one point in time. with this movie it’ll be 10mill plus people with their curiosity.
It’s very unfortunate that the roles for us are usually hookers, and DQ,CD or TV to represent the whole TG. Only recently did TS get a little more exposure. I agree that we should and deserve better roles here in the entertainment industry. That’s not the reality. It’s gonna be a very slow process in gaining foot in this industry. We will not progress however by remaining in the dark. Sucks that we have to ease in feeding on their current emotional state toward us. The truth is that feeling already exist and that’s why that role was written in the beginning. I think comedy is a great ice breaker. To some this movie would even be there first time knowing that there are girls like us out there. Negativity sells, heavy emotion sells, laughter sells. We have to expose ourself to gain foot and forums to express who we are.
many records has broken because of this movie. First ts to have a lead in a major motion pic. also be in a record setting movie. first ts to rank 92 on IMDB data of over 2mil plus entertainers and affiliates. Right in between tom hank and james franco’s popularity. First ts to do full frontal nude in movie theatre pushing the entertainment rating system to except our body as they would male n female and not hike up the rating because they think it’s taboo. These will open more doors for more roles for us. And we hope that it’s a step closer toward something we can all share as morally gorgeous.
Dreamer
@yasminlee: Thanks again for taking the time to respond again, if this is you. Wanted to clear something up first, I do NOT think that the purpose of your existence is to cater to the rest of the ts community. I want to be very clear on that. You read what I posted above, where I said that, if a person decides to take on a role like the one in this movie for money (survival) or for fame (building up name recognition and helping out one’s career), that is their decision, their right and their prerogative. I understand that this movie is both a way to make some money for your bills and expenses and it’s also a way to gain exposure and get “The Hangover Part II (2011) – Kimmy” on your official IMDB data, which could then bring other offers or help you secure other roles. You have every right to choose what you want to do even if the rest of a group you belong to (whether that’s trans actresses, people of Thai or Asian background, or whatever else!) doesn’t 100% approve of it. And like I said before, seriously, congratulations to you because you sound like you’ve been through a lot in order to survive and then to achieve a cameo in a major Hollywood movie like this, and the 92 ranking on IMDB, and I hope it brings you a lot of luck in your future career.
Candis Cayne, another well known transgender actress who made it into the mainstream consciousness, said “I’m not trying to be a spokeswoman for the transgender community,” too. That sounds a bit like what you are saying, maybe?
My issue is not your right to choose this kind of role. My issue is that I’m one of the people that disagrees with your claim that this will help the trans community, despite your arguments that you think it will. In the end, it sounds like you are now saying something like, “I chose to do this role because it was right for me in terms of my career goals at this time, not because I thought this was the best representation of the ts community nor did I ever say that I wanted to cater to or be a spokesperson for that community. But, I think it will be good for the ts community for this and that reason.” Is that right? Because that does make sense to me and I think that’s a good way of putting it.
This idea of yours that “we are where we are today not from all the amazing protesting and marches because we are so united, but from the explosion of porn with the internet” – I’m a little skeptical, although I’ve heard it voiced before. I don’t know – why do you believe that’s true? Is the quickest way for trans people to become accepted by having people be exposed to them by the porn industry? Does that actually create people with a healthy understanding of what it means to be trans, or does it make them always associate transgender women with sexual urges? I just don’t see how introducing the population through porn or full-frontal nudity, or porn, where there is a obvious sexed up shock factor (vs. talking about gender diversity in the classroom, for example), ever brings people to normalize in their view of people the trans individual.
On a more serious note, don’t forget, duct-tape fixes EVERYTHING, so it’s always good to have a mass inventory of it! 🙂
Ecstatic
I saw Hangover 2 last night. As a comedy, it was OK, weak in some spots and hilarious in others, especially Yasmin’s role as Kimmie. While I am not T, I have a great many friends and associates who are T and I consider myself part of the community. Some of you here know me. There’s no point in rehashing all the comments made above, but to say that many of you have contributed articulate and insightful comments to this discussion. Voices are being heard, and if Yasmin accomplished nothing else (and she accomplished a lot more, including “paying her bills for a year”), she has stimulated discussion, and that is a good thing.
Kimmie’s role is extremely realistic in the context of a wild Bangkok weekend–as someone said, probably the most realistic scene in the entire movie. Sure, there are serious limitations to viewing as as ladyboy hookers only, but it’s one big step, the most high profile T cameo in a major motion picture–including completely non-salacious full front nudity, which was very realistically handled in the setting–and I’m sure bigger and better roles will follow. Over a decade ago, David E Kelly cast Lisa Edelstein as a transsexual, and 5 or 6 six ago Felicity Huffman portrayed Bree in TransAmerica: these women played their roles very well, but now we may start seeing more such roles played by transwomen (e.g. Candis Cayne in Dirty Sexy Money), and even–I think it will eventually come–in roles as women with no reference whatsoever to their genitals.
Yasmin, we met briefly in Las Vegas a couple of years ago at a party; I doubt you’ll remember. But I just want to say that I am impressed both with your performance and with your articulation of trans issues and your role in the community and in your life. Stay strong!
Penny Sautereau-Fife
@sweetbrandigirl2004: Excuse me but who are you to speak for all “true” transwomen? I know several “True” Trans women, by which “True” using your elitist mindset means those who go through full transition ending in srs, who are self-confident enough to accept the penis is just a bodypart, a lump of flesh that does not define them, who are perfectly content to use it while they still have it with those they love, and have have healthy active libidos, then don’t particularly miss them once they’re gone and use the new equipment just as freely. Just because YOU happen to be as apparently repressed as you are and have no libido (all in your head I assure you, before I lost my libido to Fibro pain, HRT did NOTHING to prevent erections when I was with my wife), do NOT presume all Transsexual MTF women are just like you, nor assume you have the right to speak for them or imprint your personal experience on the entire group. A REAL “True” Transsexual woman is the one who knows that SRS is a STEP on the journey, not the final destination, and that she’s a confidant beautiful woman penis or no penis, both before and after SRS, because a bodypart does NOT define their heart and soul.
Please take your repressed judgemental arrogance and shove it up your Harry Benjamin Syndrome.
Christine Beatty
I am a post-operative transsexual woman who transitioned almost 22 years ago. I am sick to death separatists like brandigirl2004 — nothing sweet about her I’ve even seen in these forums — who presume to speak for me or any other transwoman. It’s been my observation after two decades that these howling to defend TS purity — the transsexual taliban, as I call them — only demonstrate insecurity in their own identity in the ferocity with which they define and defend the borders of “true” transsexuality. And if you ever met them in person, you’d know why they are so insecure.
Valerie Keefe
@SayWhat: You know what douchebag, here’s a new rule. All cis people have to disclose before sex if my genitalia are a non-starter. You don’t get to assume. And therefore, if I have sex with a cissexist and they’re pissed off afterwards, then they raped me. They deceived me, acting all not-bigoted, and then I find out they’re really packin’ a big shaft of unexamined privilege where their identity is A-OK and mine is somehow fucked up.
So yeah cis people. You need to disclose in every relationship that you’re cissexist or you have deceived your partner who can then charge you with rape.
That analogy starting to fuckin’ sink in?
Valerie Keefe
@Christine Beatty:
I less than three you.
Blake
I thought this was going to be something Ace Ventura style but clearly it’s not. In fact, I’m glad they called her a ‘chick with a dick’ where most other movies would call her a man who’s trying to be deceiving. And from what I see from the article (I haven’t seen the movie), they didn’t make fun of her in a malicious way. So I don’t really see a problem.
Tina
@jason: Yes, because between the EXTREME discrimination transwomen already face, the fact that we can’t safely go into homeless shelters (which are often used as a gateway for other help agencies) and the bad economy, transwomen who can’t find work elsewhere are much better off just being unemployed and homeless.
I’ll be the first to admit: I’m trans and I work as a webcam model. It’s perfect for my situation because the money is decent even in a bad economy, I’m not going to face the same kind of trans discrimination that I would at other jobs and the hours are flexible enough that I can work around my school schedule (I’m also a college student). Since then, I’ve also found it’s helped me become more accepting of my body and I’ve gained much greater confidence and self esteem and I’ve learned to appreciate my own sexuality for the first time in my life. Honestly, I’m a little surprised, but I really enjoy it.
I think the trans community needs to move away from some kind of borg-like idea of everyone having to conform within a certain mold to be what the community (or collective) wants us to be and be more accepting of all of us being different. Me, I’m not going to ask someone else to change who they are just so it doesn’t make anyone else look bad; it doesn’t strike me as that far away from when my parents wanted me to just be a boy so I wouldn’t make them look bad.
Indi
@Sweetbrandigirl2004:
lol gay male trans -knob, thinks we are all freaks and or accessories. gay men are the worste when it comes to respecting trans people. Boo to the gay Inc, what have you ever done for us other then pilfer our funding and use us when you need more.
Physics
This is a movie people…its a commedy give Yasmin Lee a break..lol..i actually thought she was a woman and the penis was a fake..lol..I actually lost $50 telling my cousin this was real and they put the dick..i had to do a google search to square it off..which brought me here..its a commedy>>i laughted my heart out..and tht actually got me thinking about ladyboy kind of people and the harassment and judgement they receive on a daily basis. this is just a movie and see the trouble that yasmin lee got for just playin a funny role of the person she is..i don’t think u other people like her should feel bad..like all u guys do is fool girls to make them think u are girls..i didn’t get that from the film..i just thought it was really lol lol..funny being a straight guy myself..Yasmin lee whoever u are do ur thing..play ur role to put money in ur pocket this movie could give u a chance to step outside the obvious stereotype…you have to be heard before you can make a difference focus on being heard and getting urself out to play better roles ..but you have to start somewhere and starting on my favourite commedy last year isn’t a bad start..
I RESPECT EVERYBODY BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN FIRST..I SHOW NO PARTIALITY..
ewe
A big Yawn……
Physics
And just so u know …yasmin lee i actually watch my first clip of a trans movie well with u ofcourse..not my kind of thing but u are really beautiful..i probably would have to be more drunk than stu to go down that road with you but if i got up and saw you and u told me you had a dick..am not sure how i would react but it wouldn’t be violent ..probably would jsut say u were a girl last night an live in denial for the rest of my life..lol….
Dillon
I think Yasmine is beautiful inside and out. I’m straight and not interested in sex with anyone other than women. All I see from her interviews is that she has a good soul and seems genuine inside. Good for Yasmine-keep your head up!
LandStander
@Jesus loves you: “kneel before Christ and please him with your mouth…” “…Jesus will reach around you and passionately embrace you from behind.”
Please him with my mouth? Reach around? Embraced from behind? Sounds like a HOT night with the JC man 🙂
Curiosity82
@Yasmin Lee
First off you are one of the first ts porn stars i had ever seen and completely altered my perception of sexy. I thought the movie was hilarious and your part was awesome, never mind the haters, people can be so ignorant and mean and ill never understand it. Also PLEASE tell me youre not gonna get rid of that glorious piece of equipment you have between your legs, Danielle Fox already upset me by cutting hers off :(. Seriously tho i hope you can take whatever path makes you happy but me and millions of others are going to mourn the loss of that beautiful piece of manhood.
Courtney
I’m transsexual.I’m pretty much a “saint”,I never did anything crazy in my life.Some Male to Female transsexuals still use their penis,most don’t.Some work as prostitutes,most don’t.It is a comedy movie,they supposed to make fun of everything.Transsexuals are very different from each other,there is nothing like “we all like man”,”we are all girly” or “we all don’t like our penis”,it changes.
Just hope we could get a better image for both male and female transpeople.
Hugs
rick
@Courtney: There is nothing wrong with any kind of porn star, puritan england is gone, shes a good role model for any PERSON
frosty
I have watched yasmin lee in hangover 2 and I must say she has talent, so who cares if she is a tranny if you have the talent and get offers like hangover 2 than go for it.I must say I like yasmin she seems very sincere,affectionate,level headed person.I don’t think that what she is doing is going to set back transgendered people back in time at all.
Here in the uk last year we had a program called my transexual summer and this really opened the world of the real transexual, everyday people going through the hardships of there life,I really have so much respect for them I really do.
I am no stranger to the tranny world i have dated a few around the world and loved every minute of there company.I learned more from life by spending time with them than any woman I have been with.
I must say this that the trannies are taking over the asylem lol,I would never belittle any of them in public.
Oneday they will be excepted in most parts of the world without being hindered in anyway.
So god bless em all.
bryan
@DarkCootie: Im dating a T-Girl…and she is every bit a woman…and yes…I feel more like a man when Im with her…I have never know a more loving caring and sensual WOMAN than her…as soon as Im divorced from my “real” woman…Im gonna marry my girl. God bless trans Women…they are as rare as A diamond…and as magical as a miracle…I love my trans gendered partner!
frosty
@bryan: I could not agree more with your comments and good luck too you both in the future.This is becoming very common occurance these days
mark
It was just a movie, it was a very funny movie… and yasmin lee is very beautiful (i had to throw that in lol). Anyone can nitpick ANY movie about EVERY topic.. its pretty easy to nitpick… but if ur thinking about all that politically correct crap while you’re watching ANY movie, you wont enjoy the movie. If you want every movie to be politically correct, then we wont have genres.. we will just have drama… I mean they always make the white guy go look in the dark closet just after his friend was murdered and now he heard an erie noise coming from there .. do you wanna say they make everyone think white poeple are goofy? because they do… every comedian mocks white people like they are nieve and square.. its ok.. they did not do anything wrong with yasmin on that movie. in fact i think some straight men will be turned onto her, and therefore open their eyes to the fact they themselves may be gay deep down. Thats how i found out i was gay. I used to love women, and now love men… after loving a transexual.
Amy Dentata
Just what I needed, more cis people telling me to stop being so offended. Yeah, that really helps.
Sex with a woman doesn’t make a guy “formerly hetero”, whether that woman is trans or cis. What makes you think you can tease apart the more nuanced problems with this movie when you can’t even get the basics right?
You say “politically incorrect”, I say poorly-written cheap jokes made at the expense of trans people. There is a lot of humor in the trans experience, without resorting to stereotypes or fetishizing cheap shots.
Jashi
Thailand girl
” Thailand girl”provides a glimpse into Thailand’s notorious and booming sex tourism industry through the experiences of a 20-year-old bar girl. Working in the bars from the age of fourteen, she has managed to avoid selling her body a remarkable revelation given her surroundings—but her refusal to take part in this all-too-common profession for young Thai women can’t last. The introduction of foreigners, to Thailand has forever changed the city, the economy.
http://www.bangkoksexy.com
mblanco
@yasminelee – I read every comment you wrote. You are beautiful. Unfortunately, some people on here are ridiculous human beings. I think TS women are some of the most bravest people. And you and brave for not being afraid to be yourself. Now let me take you to dinner hehehe 🙂
mblanco
@yasminlee sorry I wrote an “E”