Zachary Quinto had some stern words for the “younger generation” of gay men when it comes to safe sex and PrEP. Here’s a refresher course of what he said:
“I think there’s a tremendous sense of complacency in the LGBT community. AIDS has lost the edge of horror it possessed when it swept through the world in the ’80s. Today’s generation sees it more as something to live with and something to be much less fearful of. And that comes with a sense of, dare I say, laziness. We need to be really vigilant and open about the fact that these drugs are not to be taken to increase our ability to have recreational sex.”
Many (including nearly 100 Queerty commenters) interpreted Zachary’s words as a bit high-horsed. In targeting “recreational sex” as the problem in the equation, some saw the tell-tale signs of slut shaming.
One Queerty commenter, DonW, responded:
Can you imagine if PrEP had been introduced in the ’80s or early ’90s? There would be rejoicing in the streets of WeHo and Chelsea (well, back then the West Village). No one would dream of shaming anyone for taking it.
Zachary, feeling his words were misconstrued, has penned a response on HuffPost titled On The Response to my OUT 100 Interview, in which he asserts that, “my comments were never meant to be incendiary or judgmental.”
How about we take this to the next level?
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He makes it very clear that he supports the LGBT community and yadda yadda, and then goes on to write:
What troubles me — and what I was trying to speak to in my interview — is an attitude among (some of) the younger generation of gay men — that we can let our guard down against this still very real threat to our collective well-being. I have had numerous conversations in my travels with young gay people who see the threat of HIV as diminished to the point of near irrelevance. I have heard too many stories of young people taking PrEP as an insurance policy against their tendency toward unprotected non-monogamous sex. THAT is my only outrage.
A few things trouble us about this attempt at non-judgment.
First, Zachary’s use of the parenthetical in “(some of)” is back-handed. Without the parentheses, it’d just be a way of explaining the subset of people Zachary is referring to — “some of the younger generation” — couldn’t be clearer. But that’s not what he’s doing. Instead it’s as if he means to say “all of the younger generation,” but realizes that would land even worse. We’re guessing some of those young people he’s talked to don’t appreciate being stuffed between two parentheses.
Second, it is Zachary’s opinion that using PrEP as a way of drastically reducing your risk of contracting HIV during “unprotected non-monogamous sex” is an “outrage.” And this is where people differ with his characterization.
The fact is, condom usage as a strategy for combatting HIV/AIDS can only go so far. According to one study in 2012, “one in three acts of anal intercourse between men are condom protected in the U.S.” Those are terrible numbers. So already, we have an environment where “protected sex” in the conventional manner is not doing the trick.
And that’s not to say that PrEP is the golden bullet, either. But if human sexuality can tell us one thing, it’s that we will always be finding avenues for, ahem, mutual release. And they won’t always be “monogamous.” They won’t always be “protected.” To think otherwise is ignoring reality.
Zachary concludes that:
“If what I said — however misconstrued — plays some small part in generating more meaningful informative and passionate conversations — particularly among the younger generation — then I am grateful.”
And we couldn’t agree with him more. We should be talking about this. Communication is our greatest asset in putting an end to this disease that has plagued our community. But a conversation invoking outrage over non-monogamous sex with a less-than-100-percent condom rate isn’t going to get a whole lot done.
Richie4360
Lighten up, Queerty. Quinto is an ally, not an enemy. He, and his message, deserve more respect and understanding by an intelligent readership than parsing parenthetcals.
dhmonarch89
I think Quinto nailed it!
Trippy
Quinto says: “AIDS has lost the edge of horror it possessed when it swept through the world in the ’80s. Today’s generation sees it more as something to live with and something to be much less fearful of.”
Well, YES, that’s exactly correct. I came out in 1981, and when GRID (Later AIDS) hit a year or so later, it was a horror show. By 1990 I had attended almost 20 funerals for friends who had passed of AIDS-related causes. But again, Quinto misses the point, we had NOTHING (not even information in the beginning) to tell us what to do or how to prevent it, much less recover from it or manage it. Today IT IS a lot less scary because if you do find that you are HIV positive you know that there is a medical establishment that can help you. Every year or so, researchers introduce better and better treatments. No, it’s not “the flu” but for those with good sense and a good doctor, you can manage this so much better than you could in 1985.
So yes, some people are complacent, but mostly we’re just optimistically cautious. At the very least we don’t fear that our lovers will lock us out of the house and drop our belongings on the curb as they sometimes did in the early 80’s.
Ian
Zachery Quinto get your ass out of here. Are you kidding me with this bs he on?
Paco
Wow. Huffpo Gay Voices really scrambled to help assist with his damage control. His “clarification” is still tainted with moral judgement. I agree that there needs to be a continuing dialogue about how HIV is dealt with in the gay community, but that can only happen with out bringing morality to the discussion. I remember the days of the rightwing religious nuts saying AIDS was God’s punishment for gay sex. We don’t need more of that from our own community with words like “recreational” sex.
Shaming people for their sexual choices, including the tools and methods they use to protect themselves, does more damage for HIV prevention efforts by making people fear testing, fear embracing new prevention technologies due to fear of judgement, and fear of those that are infected but “healthy”.
The younger generation isn’t complacent. They have evolved with the changing reality of HIV/AIDS. Yep, it is still a serious illness and a big deal, but with proper treatment it is very survivable now and you can’t preach death and fear without stigmatizing poz individuals that are no longer the images of death, but are now the image of hope. Embracing another tool to help prevent infection is being proactive. Morality has no place in this discussion.
Geeker
I agree with what he said,there’s now so much PrEP/Truvada worship that anyone who dares disagree is branded as a “slut shamer” Well guess what some sluts need to be shamed because they’re not only putting themselves but anyone who’s unfortunate enough to cross their paths at risk if not from HIV then a host of other STIs some of which are now drug resitant.
Stefan
He lived through a time when his friends were routinely dying and you would go to one funeral or more a week. You not only witnessed death–but a gruesome, horrible death. Trust me,it puts you in a completely different mind set. the thought of a preventative drug for HIV was unthinkable and still is for some who lived through that time. He could have just said–go have unsafe sex and die–you make your own choice. Until you live though it–which hopefully you won’t–shut the F*ck up.
Matt1961
Seems like the article is picking at nits. I understood what Quinto was saying and he’s right, HIV and AIDS doesn’t scare the younger generation like it should. He’s not being judgemental, he’s being abrupt and mindful of a simmering problem. Maybe the author needs to get off his high horse and admit that Quinto may have a point.
PARKAVMAN
Perhaps Quinto could have said it better. If it didn’t come off as judgmental fewer people would tried to be offended. I was out for quite awhile before AIDS (The gay cancer) was even heard of. It took a horrible toll before anything was done. Before PrEP was introduced, I noticed younger people that were not as concerned with Safe Sex as they should have been. Maybe it wasn’t as scary or seemed more manageable with antivirals. It is still an incurable disease and even with these great advances, should be avoided. Besides, AIDS isn’t the only thing to catch from unsafe sex.
bnard620
I agree with him completely in the sense that a lot of the danger in getting HIV seems to be taken away with all the new medications. I also agree that just giving out condoms and trying to get people to use condoms doesn’t seem to be helping as much while rate of infections among gay men is increasing. While I am weary about PrEP I applaud that there is something new out there to help combat it. We should still be trying our best to not contract HIV, it is obviously no longer a lose lose kind of game any longer.
alterego1980
The idiots who are too lazy to use a condom probably won’t bother to take a daily pill either. Not to mention the costs are way above and beyond that of a box of condoms!! PrEP is just not an effective tool for many (non-wealthy) young people or for the lazy s!uts. So why does everyone keep putting the two together? It starts with the marketing by the Ins companies, and ignorance of the public…
robair3
People need to pull their heads our of their asses and quit busting Quinto’s balls for being truthful. What he said was spot on and I don’t feel as if he is “missing the point”! Things have come a long way since the 80’s and 90’s but we still have an epidemic with this disease and just because we have better medication and you can “LIVE” with the disease doesn’t make it any less of a disease. I have several friends living with the disease and even though they are on great meds they still have issues come up that aren’t some walk in the park. If people are having issues with their morals that’s their problem.
We as a community have come a long way but we the # of infections is still rising. As someone who volunteers with my local AIDS community raising funds and awareness. You can go on any of the hookup sites, Scruff, Adam4Adam etc and notice that their are still a lot of young 18+ year old men infected with this disease, which is a damn shame. And I’m not trying to pull any morality card here but I for one do NOT want to get infected, but I also don’t want to be stuck taking a very expensive daily pill that has crazy side effects or unknown effects so that I can have sex with someone.
Instead of chastising Quinto, we as a community need to realize that there still is an issue, and thinking that taking PrEP is the answer we are fooling ourselves. Hell I can’t remember to take my vitamins on a daily basis.
SteveDenver
HA HA HA! Manufactured outrage at its best.
I only wish I was so prominent that every keystroke was scrutinized, every hair split. Man would I f*ck with those who read things that were never written.
SteveDenver
@robair3: I’m totally with you! I’ve been on the pummeling end of threads where gays considered unprotected sex (oops, “bareback,” “raw” or “skin-to-skin”) part of their liberation. I just came from a thread about a straight male porn performer who is HIV positive. People were harsh on him. But then I went to a thread about bareback gay porn and comments defending it were virulent. It’s amazing how high horses are popular among gays.
TrekBear
Just because being HIV+ is now a manageable condition, doesn’t mean someone should seek getting infected because it WILL impact your daily life – for the rest of your life.
I have a genetic autoimmune condition and it impacts my life because I take a pill once a day and can’t exercise vigorously over long periods because my body can’t replace the excess hormone needed to function that way.
Professor Fate
Quinto is exactly right.
Does anyone in the Gay community honestly believe there is NOT complacency??
Queerty is just supporting the delusion foisted by the likes of the mega-Pharma industry.
Steve Koenig
As some have said above, it might have been better-phrased, but I’m assuming this was spoken rather than a written piece and therefore editable on his part.
Alterego makes a good point that those who can’t/won’t bother with condoms are the most likely to have the same attitude about PrEP. After all, how many straight friend do we have who, with all the knowledge in the world, have been part of an unwanted pregnancy.
I agree with much of what Paco wrote, but poz folk are, in my view, not the “image of hope” either any more than folks with cancer or other diseases are.
Stuff happens: AIDS, pregnancy and related conditions, but ultimately I feel that PrEP gives a false sense of security, which is a danger to our community. And how many of the at-risk population can (financially) afford it? The gay community is not all single folks without kids with a lot of money, despite the press campaigns that allow show us that way in order to get ad money.
It has nothing to do with shaming. I am proud that I have been called a slut. Whether or not one choose to use PrEP, I can’t dispute Quinto’s statement as printed above. The CDC says: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/prep.html
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
It’s logical, captain. Because, nope, HIV is not just like living with a chronic condition like diabetes; diabetes is not an RNA; viruses mutate. Set this against a future, not that far off, when we don’t even have basic effective antibiotics, nor for that matter any idea how are economies and resulting healthcare systems will look twenty years hence; not to mention the long term effects of any of these drugs as necessary as some of them might be. No, we don’t need horror, but the balance is tipping dangerously too much in the other direction.
Bromancer7
@Geeker: You realize there are a number of STIs one can contract even with condom use. It’s an old and tired excuse as to why condoms are SO much better. They protect you from SOME STIs, all of which are easily treatable. And of course this says nothing about if the passive partner has the STI in his throat. Or do you always wear condoms when you get a blowjob too? If not, why? You’re clearly deserving of a good slut shaming by exposing both you and him to deadly drug-resistant STIs, amirite? Whore!
Geeker
@Bromancer7: I’m pretty sure there’s a difference between getting a blowjob and taking load after load from strangers because you think you’re invulnerable due to a pill.
onthemark
His second explanation/quasi-apology (or whatever it is) is actually worse than his original comment.
“I have heard too many stories of young people taking PrEP as an insurance policy against their tendency toward unprotected non-monogamous sex. THAT is my only outrage.”
There’s nothing wrong with non-monogamous sex. And as others have pointed out here, PrEP doesn’t actually qualify as “unprotected” sex. I suspect he’s outraged more at the non-monogamous sex than at the (supposed) “unprotected” sex, but no one appointed him to be the gay moral police chief.
If they are actually taking PrEP as directed, it’s really none of his fvcking business. So he can keep his outrage to himself.
Bromancer7
@Steve Koenig: I disagree, it’s a LOT easier to pop a pill every morning than it is to stop what you’re doing in the heat of passion and go fishing for a condom and lube. Trying to compare the two is stupidity.
Bromancer7
@Professor Fate: There is complacency because it’s no longer a death sentence. Complacency is not necessarily a bad thing. Do you fret every day of your life about polio? What about consumption? Or do you acknowledge that these things are no longer a death sentence and don’t really think too much about them anymore, i.e., have become complacent?
We don’t need to drive ourselves apeshit crazy over HIV like we used to. Take PrEP, use a condom (your choice, either/or), take your meds if you’re already poz, go out and enjoy sex and go on living your life. It’s no one else’s business WTF you do or how you do it.
BigJohnSF
Quinto was born in 1977 – he was 12 years old when I tested positive in 1989. He did not lose all his friends to AIDS in the 80s – he doesn’t know what he is talking about.
PrEP actually is an nearly 100% effective insurance policy that prevents HIV transmission, regardless of condom use. Men on PrEP are taking a pill every day and seeing their doctor every three months. That’s a real commitment, not complacency.
It seems a lot of gay men – especially Quinto – believe that we are doomed never to have condomless sex unless we get married. Self-loathing in action.
BigJohnSF
@Bromancer7: Exactly. And my doctor tells me that condoms appear to offer little protection against transmission of Hepatitis C.
BigJohnSF
@TrekBear: Being on PrEP is the opposite of seeking to be infected. It’s more effective prevention than condoms. Why is this so difficult for so many people to grasp?
Paco
I don’t understand why Mr.Quinto (and others of the gay morality police) aren’t vilifying condoms as well. Not only do they have a measurable failure rate, they have been available for years before PrEP even existed. One could even say they promote irresponsible sex with large numbers of partners, if they even get used at all.
The rate of new infections have been rising for years now before PrEP existed. PrEP is certainly not the cause, so the “concern” about the use of PrEP is pure nonsense and a cover for moral judgement about “non-monogamous”, “recreational” sex. I tend to be monogamous, but I am under no illusions that monogamy will protect me from unfaithful partners and broken condoms.
BigJohnSF
@Stefan: AZT was introduced in 1989 – this marked a significant slowdown in deaths from AIDS. Quinto was 12 years old then. How many AIDS funerals do you think he went to in the 1980s?
Bromancer7
@Geeker: Pretty sure there isn’t, at least as far as STIs are concerned. One can get HIV from rough deep-throating, so there is really not much of a difference between taking load after load down the throat than up the ass. And that pill will protect you either way.
Geeker
@Bromancer7: I don’t know what kind of blowjobs you’re getting/giving but I’ve never had one open a wound. I know I’ll be called a prude/self loathing/slut shamer but I don’t have sex with people who I don’t know well enough to know their status.
turptx361
I remember the ’80, with the fear, it see s that the younger gays do w u doers tank the fear of the AIDS epidemic when it first was in the Us. There was NO treatment, healthy men were drop dead at an unbelievable rate. I applaud tarrentio on his comments! At least we are talki g Bout it and need to. Too many of us have lost way too many friends to this horrible malady.
I was in the front line with the epidemic and know how it was. Please be responsible for yourself. Once you have it it doesn’t give you An award.
maxdadmark
@Richie4360: He’s clearly not enough of a twink, like the Disney/christonut (whatever) Jonas that this site keeps drooling over. Quinto is entitled to his opinion, and he speaks the truth for many. But the hysterical celebrity chicken lovers on this site, like many narcissists can’t handle being confronted.
BigJohnSF
@Geeker: You don’t understand his point. Attacking PrEP because it doesn’t prevent transmission of all STIs can only be argued non-hypocritically by people who use condoms for oral sex. If you don’t use condoms for blow jobs you are engaging in behavior that risks transmission of gonorrhea, syphilis, etc.
BigJohnSF
@Geeker: You’re absolutely right to want to know the status of any potential sex partners. This plague could end very quickly if suddenly every single person were tested, and those that were positive get treated, and those that were negative get PrEP. End of HIV.
Paco
@BigJohnSF: Don’t forget the inconvenient and incurable genital herpes via oral sex as well.
sfguy94118
Let’s see if a little sarcasm gets the message across the PReP divide.
If only one-third of people riding motorcycles wore helmets we should say “good for them for doing what feels good.” If someone says “I don’t need to wear a seatbelt when driving a car because I’m a good driver” that makes sense, right? Why pay $15 a month for condoms when $1,500 will help keep big pharmaceutical companies in business? Gay guys are rich, so they can all afford to pay this out of pocket, right? Oh, it’s the insurance companies that pay? That’s good, because reducing the risks of barebacking is good because, well, because it feels good. And even if I don’t have to pay directly surely there’s nothing better to spend that money on in such a wealthy country. Oh, and are there any side effects to Truvada? Nah, nothing there to worry about – side effects are for ‘other’ people anyways. And a reduction in risk of 44-92% is really good, right? No one ever falls into that other 8-56% risk category, right? Life is good and secure in PReP-Land – nothing to worry about here.
No doubt there are multiple layers to this debate. Some will say it’s about shaming guys who want to have unprotected sex and others will say that in a world with AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases, there is no such thing as responsible, risk-free barebacking. It’s all about trade-offs. And in a world where pharmaceutical companies are great marketers and manipulate and distort public opinion to ensure they have a strong profit margin, there is an increased burden on gay men to make responsible decisions about their own health if they’re considering taking a very expensive medication that is only 44-92% effective in reducing risk.
Boricuaex
He’s a fat ass bitch, anyway.
Paco
@sfguy94118: When one of my deathly sick friends went from having his funeral planned to now living a productive and “healthy” life, we weren’t feeling manipulated by pharmaceutical marketing at all. Maybe he should have died as punishment for his sins of normal gay sex out of wedlock? Maybe we should have just given big pharma the middle finger instead so he could be used as a poster child for gay morality.
sfguy94118
@Paco. You’re completely missing the distinction between prevention and treatment. People who don’t wear motorcycle helmets and are in an accident should be taken care of. However, they should also be encouraged to wear helmets to minimize their risks of serious personal injury. It’s really quite simple.
BigJohnSF
@sfguy94118: Life is not secure for anyone. You might get hit by a bus on the way to your trick’s house, so better just stay home and jerk off to porn for the rest of your life. We have a complex calculation of risk and benefit for all of our activities, but PrEP completely redefines that calculation for men who have sex with men.
vive
@onthemar: “His second explanation/quasi-apology (or whatever it is) is actually worse than his original comment.”
I was thinking the exact same thing. He just can’t seem to open his mouth without putting his foot in it.
Quinto: “I have heard too many stories of young people taking PrEP as an insurance policy against their tendency toward unprotected non-monogamous sex. THAT is my only outrage.”
…shows why people shouldn’t get medical advice from actors. Truvada IS an insurance policy as much as condoms are. PrEP isn’t “unprotected” sex. Properly taken it is about as effective as condoms, quite likely more so, and easier to adhere to than condoms. So to be consistent he should be OUTRAGED about those condoms too.
sfguy94118
@BigJohnSF: PrEP may not redefine the calculation that much. Check out the CDC website which states: “Among gay and bisexual men, those who were given PrEP were 44% less likely overall to get HIV than those who were given a placebo. Among the men with detectable levels of medicine in their blood (meaning they had taken the pill consistently), PrEP reduced the risk of infection by as much as 92%.” Translation: lots of people successfully ride a motorcycle without a helmet. But those who wear helmets have a higher survival rate and survivors are in better condition than those who didn’t wear a helmet. Only you can decide if you want to wear a helmet or not.
DonW
@sfguy94118: To expand on your motorcycle analogy: what if there was a new technology (let’s use our imaginations here) that protected against head injuries at least as well as a helmet, and a certain proportion of riders who otherwise failed to consistently wear helmets (even – SHOCK – because they like to feel good) would be saved from injury by using it. Would you not also encourage the use of that technology as yet another welcome addition to the arsenal of prevention?
Paco
@sfguy94118: I’m not. I wish PrEP had existed back then for him. It could have prevented a lot of suffering for him. Why deny the people who refuse to use helmets the option for a, better than nothing, form of protection that could prevent a disease that will require many more pills over a lifetime?
Some people are even happy to have an added layer of protection for use with the “helmets” that sometimes do fail. This fear of PrEP just makes me shake my head.
sfhally
Queerty’s looking for outrage. I hope one day that someone who expresses an opinion only to have nit-pickers on the internet have a melt-down will just tell them to shut the hell up and quit looking for something to be outraged about.
All these dumb-shits talking about the morality police need to get their head out of their respective asses.
sfguy94118
@Paco: Protection is good. More protection is even better. But the question is how much should people pay for protection for the added value of that protection. As for people who “refuse to use helmets” only they can answer why they don’t value and respect their own well-being. Keep in mind, this is in the context of people who know how HIV is transmitted and we’re not talking about ignorant, un-informed people here, but rather people who are making a conscious decision about their behavior. I’m talking about PrEP today, and not caring for someone with AIDS “back then.”
sfguy94118
@DonW: Of course added protection is a good thing. Technology has it’s place. But it’s also worth considering the additional costs relative to the benefits. If you could be assured that airline safety could be increased to the point where fatalities were reduced to just 100 passengers per year at the cost of $1,000 more per ticket – would that be a good deal or not?
Professor Fate
In a nod to Jeff Foxworthy:
You may be a slut, if you get all bent out of shape about “slut shaming”.
erikwm
The thing often overlooked in pharmaceutical medications is that when they’re approved, they’re only deemed safe for short term use. It’s hoped they’ll be safe for long term use, but there is no guarantee. Clinical trials don’t last 10-15 years. There is a long list of medications that have been approved, only to be pulled off the market years later because of unforeseen problems.
My opinion on prescription drugs is simple — if you don’t HAVE to take it, don’t. Unless you’re sick and need to get better, need to take medication for a chronic condition, just don’t.
I realize others will make a different decision. I wish them luck.
Professor Fate
@erikwm: Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding! EXACTLY!!
jason smeds
The problem of STD’s is real for anybody. Men, women, gay, straight…it doesn’t matter.
The particular problem for us men who identify as gay is the gay scene. The gay scene concentrates. It is like concentrated orange juice. Everything – including germs – is concentrated within a sub-population that is relatively stagnant.
Because it is concentrated and stagnant, the gay scene makes it more likely that you will catch an STD through random sexual behavior than if you were on the straight scene. On the straight scene, you are protected by the herd. On the gay scene, herd protection is lacking.
This is what I say to men who seek sex with men: you are safer if you look for sex with men on the straight scene.
erikwm
@Professor Fate: Thanks. I think it’s important to mention that reality with regard to PrEP.
Often, taking a prescription drug is a no-brainer. If you already have HIV/AIDS or another chronic disease, the benefit you may receive from a medication outweighs the risk of complications. In the instance of PrEP, the medication is being prescribed to individuals who are NOT sick. They are 100% healthy individuals. Thus, the risk/benefit ratio changes.
Personally, i’m going to let everyone else be the guinea pigs. I’ve stayed negative for 15 years through condoms, discretion, and common sense. I’m confident that will continue to work for me.
sfguy94118
@erikwm: Thanks for putting things into perspective!
ashersea
Not just HIV, but all sort of nasty shit you can get.
Chris
“Today’s generation sees it more as something to live with and something to be much less fearful of. And that comes with a sense of, dare I say, laziness.”
The first sentence is more-or-less factual. HIV/AIDS is seen as something to manage and/or to live with; regardless the half lives of meds and the like. Many people with HIV are living into their 60s and 70s with marginal loss in quality of life. …. Also, the increasing number of options for prevention and that we know so much more about HIV then when it first came out lessen fear. As they should!
On the other hand, the second sentence confounds the absence of fear with laziness. The absence of fear may result in people being increasingly willing to take risks that, in the past, carried unacceptable consequence. But that is NOT fear.
Hence, I am annoyed by the willful confound that Mr. Quinto seems to engage in. He shows himself to be, dare I say, intellectually lazy.
Sweet Boy
The problem with him is that he’s right…and some people get their feathers ruffled…
Saint Law
@Bromancer7: “One can ger HIV from rough deep throating…”
If twere so then there would be nary a gay man who was negative.
However as every study has shown: in terms of exposure to HIV, unprotected anal sex is many many times riskier than unprotected oral sex and you only show your bad faith when you pretend otherwise.
demented
@sfguy94118: You are a smart smart guy, and I think you are completely right.
jimmycurry01
His comments did not need any clarification, nor damage control. What he said was right on the money. AIDS has lost its edge, people do not treat it with the reverence it deserves, and many do treat Truvada as their main source of HIV prevention despite it not being intended as such.
Greg
So let people do what they want to do. When the next “gay plague” comes out that has no treatment or cure, that’s when they will listen and learn.
Jeton Ademaj
@Steve Koenig: Steve, i’m gonna try to be gentle as i disintegrate your post:
***”those who can’t/won’t bother with condoms are the most likely to have the same attitude about PrEP. After all, how many straight friend do we have who, with all the knowledge in the world, have been part of an unwanted pregnancy.”***
you and others are talking out of your @ss here, with rank speculation. PrEP does not require interruption of the sex act, PrEP does not require a loss of sensation that for many is catastrophic and for most is simply a great diminishment of sexual sensation, and PrEP does not require a top’s permission for a bottom or a woman to be protected.
***”poz folk are, in my view, not the “image of hope” either any more than folks with cancer or other diseases are.”***
that’s nice, but also entirely subjective, and living despite a deadly illness has traditionally inspired many. i look forward to your attempts to promulgate your different view widely. 🙂
***”I feel that PrEP gives a false sense of security, which is a danger to our community. And how many of the at-risk population can (financially) afford it? The gay community is not all single folks without kids with a lot of money, despite the press campaigns that allow show us that way in order to get ad money.”***
your feelings have no bearing on the established science: PrEP WORKS, it works FAR better than condoms at preventing HIV…that’s not a “false sense”, that is MANIFEST FACT. your stated falsehood is the real danger to our community, as we have endured a greater and greater share of 50,000 new HIV infections every year for over 20 years, thanks to a strategic vision that is an abject failure, a failure you implicitly advocate continuing. PrEP is covered by every Medicaid, and in fact New York State will have an ADAP for PrEP very soon. your invocation of the rich partying fabulous medicated Guppie is worthy of Maggie Gallagher.
***”It has nothing to do with shaming. I am proud that I have been called a slut. Whether or not one choose to use PrEP, I can’t dispute Quinto’s statement as printed above. The CDC says: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/prep.html“***
pure bullsh:t, Steve…it has everything to do with shaming, along with some outright lies. you can’t dispute Quinto’s statement because you lack the knowledge needed to do so, but those of us who do, will. severely.
as for your link at the end, i’m actually quite familiar with it.
how about you highlight specific passages or quotes from it to make a point, rather than simply posting the link as if doing so meant something?
having posted all of this, i really do hope you’re well, Steve. it’s just kinda late to see you joining the BS Bandwagon.
mlbumiller
Well something is still wrong when the largest age demographic of new sero positive guys is still 18-25?
demented
@Jeton Ademaj: Catastrophic? There are a lot of things in life that are “catastrophic,” but some limited loss of sensation due to a condom is NOT.
Jeton Ademaj
@demented: speak ONLY for yourself, “demented”…now and forever.
some people can’t stay hard on condoms, meaning they can’t have sex…with condoms. that means no sex. for most normal human beings, not being able to have sex is a *catastrophe*.
oh, and “limited loss of sensation” is a weasel-worded way of saying “not total”.
“hey, you only lost 95% of your sensation…it could have been 100%!”
NEXT!
jwtraveler
One problem with PrEP: It doesn’t prevent syphilis, gonorrhea, herpes, hepatitis or the next deadly virus that comes along and ravages gay men. Condoms aren’t perfect, but they’re a lot more reliable for all those other diseases.
tardis
It doesn’t matter what he says. Fact is, HIV rates are RISING.
DonW
@jwtraveler: But huge numbers of gay men weren’t consistently using condoms to begin with. They weren’t protected against syphilis, gonorrhea, herpes, hepatitis or the next deadly virus — OR HIV. If they take PrEP they are now protected against HIV, even if they’re still at risk of the others. No, that’s not perfect (generally life on this planet isn’t), it’s a net gain.
SportGuy
I completely agree with him. I have come across so many guys that say they are on prep so its fine if we bb and that is when I turn around and walk back out the door. It is supposed to be used with condoms just in case the condom breaks or something and guys are using it as a free card to go around bb every second.
topshelf
The people who have a problem with Quintos’ comments are the same sort of rabid “shame claiming” people who prevented HIV from being treated as the infectious disease that it was in the 80s. Because if it had been, like every other infectious disease, it wouldn’t have decimated an entire generation of gay men. There is no reason at all that HIV should still be a current event. Quinto was spot on with his comments.
Jeton Ademaj
Quinto is a self-serving fool. as for STD’s when using only PrEP without condoms, the fact is that PrEP prescriptions REQUIRE regular bloodtests for side effects, ***and for STD’s***.
regular STD testing is far more important for catching and stopping the spread of syphilis, gono, clap and hepatitis A/B/C than condoms are… not even close. go ask an epidemiologist or two.
“Topshelf” here is a troll too afraid to scream “quarantine”, so he just alludes to it.
as far as sexual safety, neither condoms nor PrEP require being used with each other, both are very powerfully protective options WHEN USED CORRECTLY…but they are indeed more powerful together than they are alone.
that is, as long as a person can stand to use condoms, which not everyone can do. for them, there are now very powerful options that do not diminish or destroy their sexual experiences.
trolls, sit down and STFU.
arthurb3
He is right. Regular testing is no cure. Stop risky behavior and you will not be at risk.
topshelf
@Jeton Ademaj:
Jeton,
You STFU. I obviously did not mean that people should be quarantined, nor am I arguing against the effectiveness of condom or Truvada. You do realize that Truvada wasn’t available until just recently, don’t you? Truvada is new, but self-destructing activist loudmouths like you have been around since the first outbreak of HIV in the 80s. Your style of red herring hyperbole are the very tactics that jerks like you have to use to make your point. You are the very reason that HIV is still an issue. Actually, I can’t find the right words to illustrate how much you suck.
Stache99
@topshelf: “people who prevented HIV from being treated as the infectious disease that it was in the 80s. Because if it had been, like every other infectious disease”….I’m confused. Who? I don’t remember anyone trying to prevent that.
Also, I see no “hyperbole” in Jeton Ademjaj’s responses. Everything seems factually consistent. When you resort to personal attacks though it just show’s everyone that you have no real argument other then being a loudmouth yourself.
Jeton Ademaj
@arthurb3: to live is to risk.
stop crossing streets or walking NEAR Them if you REALLY never want to be hit by a car.
stop eating if you never want food poisoning.
stop loving if you never want to get hurt, etc.
yea, i thought so. Regular testing for STD’s is the best way to stop them, whether cures exist or NOT. stay away from science, you might hurt yourself.
Jeton Ademaj
@topshelf: the only thing that is obvious in your replies is that you talk out of both sides of your mouth, and that you don’t actually know what you’re talking about, whichever side you talk out of.
kudos for blaming your fellow homos for HIV because you are impotent to take on bigots…it’s not that difficult, you just have to stop being an anonymous coward.
mkaaayy, “topshelf” ?
Niall
@Jeton Ademaj: Boo fucking hoo. The it doesn’t feel good with a condom excuse has to be one of the lamest, most pathetic things I’ve ever heard. Fact is, you’re just not trying hard enough because obviously you want to get your rocks off bareback.
It’s 2014 ffs, there are condoms so thin, they’re barely noticeable, and you and others are trying to tell me you really can’t find something that works? If the condoms are constricting, then move up a size. This isn’t the 80s where condoms were thick as ziplocks(exaggeration obviously), it’s easier to find thinner condoms that fit, and guess what? Even the most expensive condom will still cost less than prEP, so please pull another one with that BS.
Stache99
@Niall: Yes it’s 2014 and it’s time to talk openly about it and new prevention strategies since the old prevention methods like condoms and shaming clearly is not working.
Niall
@Stache99: All well and good, but i’m still not buying THAT condom excuse. If you want to bareback for the fun of it, that’s nice, but please don’t try to shroud that in some BS of “oh I have to resort to barebacking because I can’t find condoms that won’t reduce sensation”
Bromancer7
@Niall: And that’s EXACTLY why I bareback, because wearing a condom = no erection = no sex. Or if I do manage to stay hard I can’t feel a thing. Funny thing about extra large condoms is that even the “thin” ones are pretty damned thick.
I don’t give a shit whether you buy the excuse or not, but to claim it doesn’t exist simply means you’re a jackass who knows nothing about the world other that what little you see with your blinders on.
Curtispsf
Good lord…It’s a Queerty clickbait wet dream.Tell gay men they can’t have all the high risk sex they want with NO consequences. All the folks slamming Zachary Quinto remind me a whole lot of the politically correct queens of NYC threatening to lynch Larry Kramer for telling them to stop having anonymous high risk sex in bathhouses at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic when nothing was known and the virus had not yet been discovered.
There is a tendency in the gay community to “eat our young” if a message does not conform to some PC gay “absolute” which, of course, only “WE” know. Zachary Quinto is a friend and ally. His message may not have been delivered as artfully and carefully as YOU would like, but HE should not be SHAMED for not conforming to YOUR opinion around appropriate sexual behavior for gay men of any age. Or is there NO room for disagreement? Stop the holier than thou BS. There is truth in what he said; it may offend you and YOUR sensibilities, but really, who gives a damn? Oh yeah, Queerty because it drives clicks.
Jeton Ademaj
opinions are opinions and facts are facts, when Zach gives his opinion he should filter out any pretensions of facts WHEN WHAT HE CALLS FACTS ARE ACTUALLY LIES.
there is only one medication that is approved for PrEP, aka Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis. it’s a pill called Truvada, which combines two compounds, emtricitabine and tenofovir disoproxyl fumarate. both compounds have been on the market over a dozen years, and studied for a lot longer than that.
combined, they are about as safe as aspirin…which itself is not 100% safe.
when Quinto invents his own “science”, his 2nd-rate-Spock ass is getting called out.
as for “Niall”, i find it so funny that he thinks his half-assed angry lecture actually helps men like condoms.
funnier still that we have 20 years of other trolls hijacking the condom-gospel into a tool for lecturing and insulting people.
i wonder if they’ve made guys like condoms more, or hate condoms more….hmmmmm??
Bromancer7
@Curtispsf: The problem is that Quinto went beyond stating his opinion. Until he becomes a board certified MD specializing in HIV medicine he should keep his uninformed opinions, half-truths, and flat out lies to himself.
It’s one thing to say “this is what I do” and why. It’s another to call out people and shame them for not doing what you do. No one has the right to do that, and no one, no matter who you are, gets a pass for doing so.
spiffy
I just realized something… People who keep tossing “shame” into these arguments really, really, REALLY CARE about what others think of them.
Niall
@Bromancer7: Right then. So basically out of all the different condoms available, there just isn’t one that works for you at all? It sounds more like you enjoy bareback and you’ve conditioned yourself to think that’s the only way you can enjoy sex.
machuffin
Everybody needs to relax. We all know, despite how awkward some may think it came out, what he is saying and we all know he is right. People think AIDS is not as big a threat and people are acting irresponsibly because of it. We all know he is right. Not about EVERYBODY or EVERY situation. But he is using his experience and the “wisdom” that comes from it as well as his popularity (though I can’t stand him) to wake people up to the hidden dangers in their lives. He means well and he speaks the truth. If it bothers you perhaps you are a contrarian or you are the very people he is trying to reach. Just because people want to help doesn’t mean that just because they aren’t professional speech writers (and we don’t all seem to hear the same thing when someone speaks) doesn’t mean they should be vilified. People who try to destroy and hurt are bad. People who try to help are good.
alphamaleii
you know i guess that this HIV/AIDS is still a very touchy subject the way that every one has danced around it now & i think that what Quinto said was a very polite & proper way of saying it now ,,,him being a gay movie star now is probally hard the way it is now in this day & age yet even ,,,,,but i not being in his position can say it just how it is now & i think what he said is right & no one has the rite to even think of giving him no shit about it now ,,,im an older man from the midwest here & if you want it point blank ive had many of the younger generation hit me up & dont care about any of it now ,,,ive had offers to DROP MY SEED IN THEIR VIRGIN HOLES or then there is the DEMOND SEED CHASERS that WANT the dam virus just so they can get it over with ,,,,it seems that they think that no matter what they are gonna get it & just want it over with ,,,ive seen 16year olds here with the HIV Virus already ,,,,so what really does that say for our OLDER or Younger generations at all really ,,,& it seems that everyone thinks that the new PReP is a god send but what happens when the virus mutates again & gets past the NEW PReP,,,, then its the 80’s all over again & yes ive also seen many of my friends pass due to the AIDS related complications to now ,,,,i think that most all schools & parents & really just about everyone should be teaching all of us yet the real dangers of what really happens to a person with aids is really like ,,the sores ,,how a person goes from the age of 18 to the age of 90 in less then 2 months the real horrors of the AIDS virus yet ,,,,so give Quinto a break now ,,he deserves better for trying to do whats rite & what he feels a gay man in todays care free age !!
LuckyboyLA
Just goes to further illustrate that opinions, like butt holes, every body has one. But when a celeb, and a Gay celeb, opens his mouth and gets to giving their lofty opinions.. Oh Boy, that would have been a GRRREAT time to say, ‘you know, I’d like to give this some real thought before I answer your question. This is a very serious subject for todays younger gay men’. But no, he’s Gay, he’s Out, he knows, he speaks, therefore we must listen to The Oracle.
Bromancer7
@Niall: And it sounds like you’ve conditioned yourself to believe the only way to have sex is with a condom, whether you like it or not. No excuses!
I currently have a drawer full of roughly 20 different kinds of condoms from at least 5 or 6 different brands. All in all I’ve spent close to $100 trying to find a condom that suits me. None of them do. So what exactly should I do now? Keep throwing money away on condoms that no matter what they say on the label are all nearly identical in that I feel nothing?
Your refusal to believe there are some people that simply cannot enjoy sex with a condom for one reason or another is willful ignorance.
rikard
Quinto has done a fine job articulating the way many of us feel. I meet young men every week with no concern about hooking up with a stranger and no discussion about HIV, or safer practices of any kind, much less the cutting edge drug therapies. As a man in my fifties who saw his generation pass like a shadow and has seen the legal profession grow rich litigating with greedy drug companies, I reserve the right to be skeptical. I get butterflies in my stomach at the thought that we could see an end to HIV. I was vaccinated against Smallpox. I believe in the power of drugs to eradicate disease, but I’ll save my dancing in the street until I’m satisfied the testing and reporting is objective and covers reasonable time periods.
LadyL
I’m inclined to agree with those who point out that how you feel about Zachary Quinto’s remarks largely depends on where you sit generationally. For those of us old enough to remember the frightening early days of AIDS and the grisly devastation it wrought, he is simply sounding a warning that this disease can still kill.
I didn’t get the sense that he was trying to shame or judge, just that he is very concerned that a generation of gay men (and women) who didn’t live through the horrifying beginnings of AIDS/HIV don’t fully comprehend the danger. Perhaps that’s inevitable, but in that case isn’t it the responsibility of an elder generation to sound a warning?
We are sick to death of this disease, sick of it continuing to loom over our heads three decades in. And we are so long accustomed to being judged and shamed–public and private condemnation that ramped up to unimaginable levels of cruelty and malice in the wake of AIDS–that I think sometimes we perceive judgement where it’s not intended. I think Mr. Quinto meant well. Let’s not be so quick to turn our weapons on each other.
vive
@rikard: “Quinto has done a fine job articulating the way many of us feel. I meet young men every week with no concern about hooking up with a stranger and no discussion about HIV, or safer practices of any kind, …”
Well no, that is not what Quinto is articulating at all. You are talking about people who take no precautions, while Quinto is specifically blaming people who take the precaution of using PrEP as a supposed cause for this widespread complacency, which is nonsensical since nationally only a few thousand men are on PrEP. In other words, a vanishingly small percentage of guys who are protecting themselves with PrEP are to blame for the complacency of the majority. On what planet is that logical?
vive
@Niall: “All well and good, but i’m still not buying THAT condom excuse. If you want to bareback for the fun of it, that’s nice, but please don’t try to shroud that in some BS of “oh I have to resort to barebacking because I can’t find condoms that won’t reduce sensation.””
Of course people bareback for the fun of it – isn’t that the point of sex? If with PrEP the risk becomes comparable to the risk with condoms, what would be the ethical basis for passing judgment on consensual barebacking between well-informed adults? I just don’t understand your theory.
(Also, do you know a condom brand that doesn’t reduce sensation? Even the “ultra-thins” reduce it too much for me.)
Stache99
@vive: Take porn for example. Huge difference in the tops reaction when he’s not wearing a condom in the scene. With a condom there just going through the motions. I can tell most of the time.
I’m a big fan of condoms but I’m not going to pretend they don’t reduce the feeling by half if not more. I know this is a taboo subject but I think we at least have to be honest about that.
Stache99
@vive: Plus, there’s nothing at all complacent about taking responsibility for you and your partners health ie PrEP. No one’s perfect all the time. It’s called being proactive. It’s the most responsible thing I can think of.
jjose712
I think he doesn’t need to clarify anything, Quinto was totally right in first place
vive
@Stache99, I totally agree. Quinto is blaming the very people who are most proactive in taking precautions.
I know first hand that it is not easy to to obtain PrEP. At least for me it took a lot of legwork (finding a suitable doctor, navigating a shitload of health insurance phone calls, etc.) to get it, not to mention the frequent doctor’s visits and testing to maintain it. It takes everything BUT complacence. Quinto’s blame game is totally misguided.