Nakhone Keodara was a former gay rights activist who founded the soon-to-be defunct Gays United Network. He is currently the Founder and Publisher of the SoCal Voice. Email him at 
The white LGBT community just don’t get it. They honestly believe that “discrimination is discrimination,” when it comes to, well, discrimination. Let me explain. The other day I went into shock at the horror of having my name plastered underneath the heading “Our Own Worst Enemy,” of which Queerty was also named as public enemy #1. The post was written by Bilerico.com’s contributor Phil Reese. This was in reference to a press release that I sent out recanting my organization the Gays United Network’s support of the 2010 Campaign and aligning it with the 2012 Campaign.
It was sensationalism from the get-to when Mr. Reese started out his article with “Yesterday, Towleroad unveiled a massive roster of A-list supporters for the National Equality March.” Looking over the “A-List,” we can see that most of the endorsers are white–disappointing but true. And this is proof positive the people of color heterosexual community will see the LGBT community’s fight for its civil rights as, largely, a fight for white people’s benefits.
I went into rage and engaged with Phil in the comments section of that post. Subsequently, one of his friends came to his rescue and wrote, “I cannot even imagine trying to compare who was/is discriminated against more or worse. How does anyone else know that the way they were discriminated against hurt them more than the way I was. Of course there are the big issues out there. The major events that happen. But when we are essentially working towards the same goals how can we waste time fighting with those on our side?”
Now I see it clearly why the people of color LGBTs have thrown in the towel and say, “Fuck it, I quit the movement.” Now I see why the disenfranchised don’t become more involved in the LGBT movement’s fight for our civil rights. We’re frustrated with being shut out, discredited and slandered when we attempt to speak up and represent the interest of the people of color LGBT community. Now I see that it’s fruitless because they just don’t understand that their white privilege has prevented them from having empathy or compassion concerning discrimination the people of color LGBTs have endured even within the LGBT community.
They honestly believe that they understand the pain of discrimination that the people of color endures as a result of the color of their skin because they have suffered the same discrimination as a result of their sexual orientation. They’ve ignored completely the plight of their people of color counterparts that are experiencing a double-whammy concerning their oppression within the LGBT community because of the color of their skin. It’s outrageous for them to simply say, “Well, we’re all fighting the same fight and you people should just understand that it’s for your own good too.” It’s typical for whites to say, “You have a chip on your should,” or “You’re bitter and unprofessional” when we challenge the status quo. That’s what happens to us marginalized and oppressed minorities, especially within the LGBT community, we resort to shouting in order to get through to the thick skulls of the white gay LGBT population.
Another example of the not-so-subtle racism is from a Facebook user who responded to my post about how unfair it is that charismatic and impassioned Mario Nguyen lost the Equality Idol contest to his heterosexual counterpart Sam Sussman, who is less inspiring. The user said, “Democracy isn’t perfect — can you spell Clay and Reuben — but it’s the best we got. Congrats to Julie and Sam. We love you Toby.” This is the straw that broke the camel’s back for me.
As such, I am washing my hands from the LGBT movement because I no longer believe in this fight for equality. I am resigning as director of the Gays United Network and will dissolve the organization if no one steps up to take my place. I am cancelling my volunteer vacation to Maine in October. I’m really done!
When I embarked on my journey into activism as a response to Join the Impact founder Amy Balliett’s call-to-action last November, I wanted to affect change. Along the way, I’ve come to find that the thing that needs to be changed the most in this movement is the LGBT community itself.
I am throwing in the towel because I don’t believe I can affect that change within this community. The Anglo LGBT community refuses to listen to any of the concerns of the people of color within this movement and it will do what it pleases regardless of the consequences.
The National Equality March has largely turned out to be about LGBT white people and I can’t and won’t support it. Once again, this is going to be another event where the rest of America will see that it’s all about white people. I predict that the majority of the attendees will be white because they are the ones that can afford to go to this March. I officially am condemning the March as of now. I wish the Anglo LGBT community luck with its fight for equality–alone!
UPDATE: Nakhone has rescinded his decision. He explains on the next page.
Anonymous
I feel there’s an unnecessary racial element being incorporated here. “White people’s benefits”? Equal rights for LGBT people means equal rights for *all* LGBT people — not just white people. I really don’t see what you hope to accomplish by deciding not to work towards LGBT rights for everyone. Honestly now, even if this really was “all about white people”, does that somehow mean LGBT rights aren’t worth fighting for? That we don’t deserve them? I don’t think so.
Topher
This whole tirade reminds me of a great moment from Will & Grace:
GRACE: …don’t tell me that you’re gonna pull out the gay card.
WILL: It is a lot harder for a gay man–
GRACE: Because if you’re pulling out the gay card, I’m pulling out the girl card, and we both know that the girl card trumps the gay card.
WILL: Don’t make me get my friend Joannie over here, because we both know that the only card that trumps the girl card is the gay girl card.
GRACE: Ok. I’m not losing this. I will call Jill, my African-American, bi-curious, dyslexic… Forget it. I’m exhausted. I fold.
WILL: That’s a good move, because I happen to know a differently-abled transsexual with split ends, and that beats the house, missie.
Republican
“As such, I am washing my hands from the LGBT movement because I no longer believe in this fight for equality.”
To believe that the gay community has problems with racial issues (which it does) and to try and work on that is one thing. To reject the fight for equality because of it is another. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, asshole.
jason
For bitching about white people so much, he sure does date alot of us.
Cam
So to back up this article (And I remember the other article you wrote some weeks ago attacking white gays so please stop pretending that this is somehow a new opinion for you) you write….”Another example of the not-so-subtle racism is from a Facebook user who responded to my post about how unfair it is that charismatic and impassioned Mario Nguyen lost the Equality Idol contest to his heterosexual counterpart Sam Sussman,”
_______________________________________________
Goodness me, wow, somebody on Facebook wrote that they were dissappointed! Well I suppose that must mean that everything you say is right. Look Nakhone, you’ve have been attacking the “White gays” from your first article on here, and the fact of the matter is, your posts never have anything constructive to say, just a bunch of vitrol. You never seek to add to a discussion, merely say “You are all bad” etc…” Your last article was about how we shouldn’t be wasting time advocating for gay rights because there were people starving in the world, so you ALREADY were announcing you don’t hold gay rights up as a priority. So again, please stop pretending that this is a new opinion for you rather than just another step in your ladder of attacks on the gay communities that you have a beef with.
I’ll say again what I said before, you feel that you’ve had a hard time because of your race, ethnicity etc… that is terrible, however do your attacks on whites as somehow not bowing down to your superior understanding of discrimination make you feel all better now? In my opinion you can use any argument you want, but your constant finding of excuses to lambast one race of people in the movement is nothing more than racism trying to disguise itself as anything else.
If you feel that you are being shut out, then do something about it, fundraise and run ads, meet with your local area reps. Hell you started and publish a gay newspaper, run articles, interview people…but then again, that isn’t your M.O. Much more your style to just attack the white gays because you’re having a bad day.
Cam
@Topher: LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
NickNack
Where’s YOUR hood, buddy?
Jeremy
I am hesitant to comment on this post. The issue you raise is very compelling and one of the most important ones within the LGBT community. Unfortunately, the anecdotes you provide and the source of your frustration do not live up to the seriousness of this matter.
For me, the problem with your post is that it remains anchored solely in internet media. The issue of diversity in LGBT activism obviously goes far beyond the two blogs that serve (principally) gay, white men — queerty and towelroad. Furthermore, you are reinforce the naive, closed-off nature of internet-based LGBT activism when you cite a facebook post to one of your own comments.
I encourage to please reconsider your position. I am confident that many people, including yourself, are doing great work to encourage LGBT rights for people of all ethnic backgrounds. Furthermore, I know that the majority of the LGBT activists I know (white or otherwise), care very deeply about race within the LGBT community. Finally, we are only just now starting to see the potential of the internet to transform grass-roots activism. More than ever we have the opportunity to make serious gains in creating a broader vision for LGBT activism.
While you may not agree with the media/promotion surrounding the March for Equality, I hope that your cynicism will remind those of us who still care how much we work we have to do to recognize and support the many diverse parts of the LGBT community. We will only succeed if we can work together.
Anonymous
Anglo LGBT — are you a moron? Not all white people are Anglo Saxon. . . how bizarre!
Shawn
wow, I agree that there is still racial issues not only with our community…but with this country and I’m a person that was taught from birth that racism in ANY form is wrong. While the world sees me as white…I have never seen anyone in color…I’ve always seen all of us a Humans.
So, I’m appalled by Nakhone. I can’t say that even knew who you were before this, but I must say that you must not have been that great of a leader if you’re willing to quite like this. Have fun getting YOUR rights truly ALONE.
Eugene
Good riddance.
Phil
Am I racist?
http://www.bilerico.com/2009/07/why_are_white_gay_men_so_racist_why_are_straight_b.php
Nakhone seems to believe that I called him out on that unprofessional press release because I’m racist (at least that’s what he implied in his comments on the post linked to here http://www.bilerico.com/2009/09/the_march_endorsement_list_and_me.php). I really don’t think there’s anything I CAN say in defense of myself in light of such an accusation. People are either going to believe that I called him out on the unprofessional press release because it was, in fact, unprofessional, or I called him out because I hate non-whites.
One way to decide for yourself is to read the press release he wrote yourself.
http://www.bilerico.com/2009/08/gays_united_not_so_much.php
I’d also like to apologize to Nakhone HERE as I HAVE on Bilerico. I am sorry that he interpreted my piece as PERSONALLY calling HIM the worst enemies of the gays. I can see why he would take it that way, as I don’t go into more detail about who he is as a person, but I did not INTEND it that way. I intended to isolate his single action to talk about a bigger problem that affects far more activists than just Mr. Keodara. I was pointing it out as a symptom of a greater problem of divisiveness, just as a pointed to a specific Queerty post in the piece. Once and for all I do not believe ANY activist–including Mr. Keodara–is an enemy of the movement, despite bad moves. Be clear, our enemies don’t change–its the Far Right, who would be happy to see all of us disappear. Mr. Keodara is not in this group.
I’m sad to lose an activist, as we need them, I was definitely trying to be constructive in my piece. I’m surprised by your interpretation, but I’m not going to argue with you anymore.
AlanInSLC
It sounds to me that the writer has a problem with White LGBT people…almost more than the issues he claims white people have with non-white LGBT people.
Who is racist?
Yes there are problems in the community, racism being included, but it doesn’t mean that EVERYONE who is white is a racist, or vice versa. I believe that all people in the LGBT community share similar discrimination or if not similar, equal amounts of it. Whites get just as much racial discrimination as Blacks or other people of color. I just find that white LGBT’s (in general) don’t complain about it publicly and make it an issue for others and cause yet another obsticle for us to argue about in the persuit for equality. Every group whether straight, gay, bisexual, white, black, native american, mexican, etc… has to deal with other groups casting their hateful opinions towards them. Its life, it sucks, and we ALL need to do something to change it for the better.
Andrew W
Clay and Reuben? Really? The straw that broke the camel’s back was that someone liked Clay over Reuben? Is this satire?
LowBlow
Good riddance to racist rubbish.
Matt
This takes victimhood to a new level.
emb
Some people are just compelled to proclaim that they suffer ever-so-much-more than anyone else. Being an activist is hard work; whining about being all put-upon and woeful because Other People are mean is a hell of a lot easier.
Adam
As a gay white male, I certainly don’t pretend to “understand the pain of discrimination that the people of color endures “; without wearing a big ol’ rainbow T-shirt, many LGBT individuals (of any color) can ‘coast’, with others assuming (statistically correctly) that they are straight. And, frankly, Nakhone, to assume that every white LGBT individual shares that attitude is to be be guilty of the same racism and stereotyping you seem to object to.
But I’m going to have to agree with much of what’s been said here in the comments. Even if many of the faces and voices you see fighting for LGBT equality are white, that doesn’t mean we’re fighting for rights that only apply to white people.
Why aren’t there more people of color on the ‘A List’? Because people like you are telling them it’s not worth it–and you’re wrong.
Oh, and PS–I’m white, but I’m not Jewish. I’m assuredly not ‘Anglo’–but then someone with your backwards views on race probably thinks we all look alike, too.
Adam
Oops–my bad. I meant “I’m white, but I’m Jewish.” I should add my ancestry is Russian, Polish, and Hungarian–far from the Anglo-Saxon crowd…
GeoffM
@Matt: 100% agree. No wonder our movement toward equal rights is so ‘iffy’…..we infight about victimization when the reality is if they’d stop bitching, and actually do some WORK the problems would be solved quicker.
AndTom
I hope you enjoy the rights one day attained with absolutely no help from you. I hope you hold your head up high when ENDA, ROMA, or DADT go down.
Andrew
Equal means equal. When anyone decides to get lost in the non-productive world of “fair and compare” we are no longer equal.
I am a gay white man and I will never stand in judgement of anyone’s effort – I don’t have the time for that because it is not productive. I will accept nothing less than full equality for all LGBT persons and I’m not interested in the color or status of anyone who helps us get there. The photo at the Finish Line is less important than actually finishing.
Quit if you want Nakhone, someone will take your place.
The LGBT Community suffers mostly from the lack of a cohesive (and inspiring) strategy to win. Some of us are trying to create that strategy and everyone is welcome to that conversation. There is room for anyone that wants to contribute – as equals.
There have been a few notable cases of people suggesting that “inclusiveness” is the problem. While it may be something that needs additional work and consideration, I very honestly don’t care “who” comes up with a strategy because I believe that strategy will be our “leadership.” As a Community or Movement we don’t have anything to rally around and work together. It isn’t “who” is sitting at the table – it is that there is nothing “on the table.” We need ideas and plans – ones that will lead to winning.
The March is what it is. Hopefully it will make a difference. But, it’s not a strategy.
We know the goal, but we have no idea how to get there. No Map. No Plan. That must change. If you must complain, then complain about that, not about who is trying, contributing and doing their best.
BlackRabbit
I’m white and I can’t afford a trip to DC.
TJ
You’ve got to be kidding me. We’re getting our asses handed to us by a well-funded, well-organized hit squad of religious fanatics and the most we can get worked up about is who is MORE discriminated against? I’m sorry, but someone has to say it– Nakhone, you ARE petty and unprofessional.
My fiance and I are SUPPOSED to be getting married in 2010, but instead of having it be, you know, legal, we’re going to have to settle for whatever the state of California is nice enough to provide us (thanks prop 8!) My fiance– a person of color, by the way– isn’t going to be harmed by the racist pro-white agenda of the LGBT community. No, he’s going to be harmed by the combined prowess of the anti-LGBT religious community, which endeavors to harm gays of ALL stripes.
We keep spending our time getting in ridiculous fights like this and there’ll be no question why we keep losing.
Bill
The entire LGTB community needs a bitch slap. Cuz that’s what we’re acting like.
But I suggest we start with Nakhone Keodara.
Jason
Nakhone Keodara seems to think he’s Evita or something.
But I ain’t crying for you, idiot.
aaron
what a cunt.
Adam
They’ve ignored completely the plight of their people of color counterparts that are experiencing a double-whammy concerning their oppression within the LGBT community because of the color of their skin.
I cannot think of a single white LGBT friend of mine who wouldn’t agree that LGBT people of color face a double whammy. It seems pretty obvious to pretty much everyone I know. No one disagrees.
The Anglo LGBT community refuses to listen to any of the concerns of the people of color within this movement and it will do what it pleases regardless of the consequences.
I keep hearing that over and over. I totally get that many people think the marriage equality fight is a rather classist struggle, and is dominating the movement to the exclusion of other issues. I happen to agree that we’ve forsaken other very important issues in the meantime, and marriage equality is not my personal top priority. I totally get that different individuals in the movement will have different priorities than others. I get that on average, people of color might have relatively different priorities. I get that in some cases, other issues having more to do with being a person of color and nothing to do with being LGBT may be more important to that individual.
But in this rant and every other rant I’ve seen about how marriage equality is a rich white issue, and how we’re ignoring the concerns … never does anyone actually mention what those concerns are. In this entire screed, you’re ranting about how we’re ignoring you without ever mentioning what you actually want.
Jay
1800-555-WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
Stef
Since I’m a straight, white, female, I’m sure my opinion will not matter here, but does anyone else find this dude hypocritically racist? He very obviously hates white people. Like, huge, massive, dislike of white people. It just exudes from his writing.
Now, I’m not gay. But I’m super pro-gay everything, as my best friend is gay (detailed this situation in many, many posts on here). My gay best friend is dating a hispanic dude. I’m all for it. I’m all for gays ans lesbians and transgendered of any color and creed. But I’m offended that this guy seems to think that white people (and I take offense to it even as a straight person), have this superiority complex. I don’t. And I don’t know many who do.
My ex-boyfriend was accused of gang raping a black stripper and lynched on every media circuit for 9 months for being white, until it finally came to light that the woman was a crackhead liar.
At my college, a piece of rope that was found in a stairwell was deemed a noose and every white person on my campus was deemed a suspect, and looked at with suspicion. We all deal with racism dude. Do whites get it as bad as people of color? I’d venture to say no, but seeing as I’ve never BEEN a person of color, I can’t make an actual comparrison. But we all deal with some kind of dislike geared at us because of what we are. You’re not the only one. Stop bitching like you are.
Instead of bitching and “throwing in the towel” like a spoiled four year old who isn’t getting his way, maybe step up to the plate and try to get those voices we “anglo saxon” (racist comment) whites are seemingly ignoring heard. Maybe address the religious african american community’s resistant to the LGBT community, and therefore the inability to really get a good inclusion of AA’s into the LGBT mix. Just for starters. Even I, as a straight white woman, know the plight of the gay black man better than you seem to. It ain’t whites that are keeping the black gays down, it’s blacks hunny.
This guy is a tool. I hope that someone more committed, less whiney, and more understanding of BOTH the white community and the communities of those of color steps up and takes his place. Otherwise, I think the fight for equality for the LGBT community (of ALL colors!) is going to become a civil war between whites and everyone else. At least if this guy has his way.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
Nearly half of the gay speakers at the DADT Protest & Leonard Matlovich Memorial in DC on October 10th the day before NEM are people of color.
Lt. Dan Choi – Asian
Former Lt. Anthony Woods – African American
Former SSgt. Eric Alva – Latino
Former Sgt. Jose Zuniga – Latino
Choi, Woods, & Alva are 3 of the 4 gay vets who will be placing a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at noon that day.
The DADT protest begins at 2 pm in Congressional Cemetery
1801 E Street SE at Potomac Avenue
[Within walking distance of Potomac Ave & Stadium-Armory DC Metro stations.]
Thank you.
[img]http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/users/53/536264/websites/634352/images/288_1-MEM-Graphic4W.jpg[/img]
Christian
I can understand frustration yet I do not agree completley. I guess what got me stuck is how everyone keeps talking about the GLBT community when you really mean the GL because during the movement as an activist I havent actually seen any of these groups do anything for the bisexual, trans, queer, or intersexed community. As a trans person who is fighting for marriage equality which by the way wont effect me in any way since once I get my legal gender change I will be considered male and if I choose to marry a woman I will…anyways…I feel that sometimes people in the community at large are only focused on what there needs are…and I feel the some people of color are just as bad as some people that are white. I do not believe in lumping anyone into a category. I just know that I have marched my butt off lost weight, got in fights with loved ones over marriage equality and when I invited all my hundreds of activist friends on facebook no one showed up to support me and my community at the trans march that hit me hard.
Now does that mean I am going to give up NO…why you may ask…well its not about me it is about that kids who are still feeling shame for who they are, the kids who are getting beat up and raped, the kids sent to aversion therapy…the kid that I used to be full of shame, anger, and lonliness. I want to validate these kids and let them know that God loves or whichever higher power they believe in, and that they are not alone. THis movement isnt about me it is about the big picture. Nakhone I hope you dont quit, but I can understand if you do…maybe a piece of advice I was given…dont put in anything you cant lose into the campaign…set up boundaries for your feelings and remember why we are doing this…it is not about US it is about the future of the children now and the children to come. You dont think Martin Luther King wanted to quit, people were being murdered so dont let those people get you down and dont take everything so personally as my therapist used to say if it doesnt apply let it fly…and those are my 2 cents!
Candace
The movement is misogynistic as well, but that can’t keep me from being part of it and trying to bring about equality for all of us. There are jerks, racists and other assorted assholes in our movement, but if I won’t let the anti-gay jerks, racists and assholes stop me, why should I let the gay ones as well? Don’t let anybody get in between you and your rights – even if they’re on your team.
hardmannyc
Wait, I ‘m confused. We care because …
Eugene
@Christian: “I feel that sometimes people in the community at large are only focused on what there needs are…”
You see, it isn’t a necessarily bad thing. Our needs are similar, so there still is a synergetic effect. The point is that even extreme selfishness isn’t as bad as infighting.
Even if all non-white GLBT activists focused on the needs of non-white members of GLBT communities, it wouldn’t be a bad thing. Even if all gay men focused on the needs of gay communities, ignoring the “LBT” part, it still wouldn’t be as bad as “Fuck it, I quit the movement.”
gendex
gay white male privilege, republican white male outrage….
The color of humanity as told by one demographic. Not cute, but not surprising.
Landon Bryce
Nakhone Keodara IS the biggest enemy of equality for gay people: a gay person who is completely self-centered.
forgetme
Marriage rights?
Its the diaper sniffers who ruined the LGBT movement. Trying to appeal to the rest of the country through white washed out advertisments.
Its all so not unusual….I think gay white men are more racist than others at times. I laugh it off because, hey, boys will be boys.
Cock wars.
Cam
@Christian: you said “I can understand frustration yet I do not agree completley. I guess what got me stuck is how everyone keeps talking about the GLBT community when you really mean the GL because during the movement as an activist I havent actually seen any of these groups do anything for the bisexual, trans, queer, or intersexed community. ”
____________________________________
Really? How interesting for you to claim this. Equality Maryland supported and pushed for the passage of a Transgender Rights law in Howard County Maryland, this is an organization whos staff is made up of lesbians and gays. No transgendered people and yet they used a portion of their small budget, as well as asking local businesses to fundraise to help with efforts to support transgendered rights. Additionally, large numbers of community activists have stalled some gay rights bills because they did NOT include protections for transgendered. I would say that halting a bill making it’s way through congress, that would have given us rights, because it didn’t include trans protections is absolutly doing something for trangendered people.
So can everybody here please take off the blinders and stop playing the game of “Nobody likes us!”. Look, if you take a group of women, of COURSE they will probably be more interested in women’s rights, than in the rights of male farm workers, if you take a group of Latino undocumented immigrants, of course immigration issues will be higher up on their list than gay rights, if you take a group of gay men and lesbians they will most likely be more focused on gay rights.
Just because people naturally gravitate towards causes that have effected their lives does not mean they hate or are against other causes.
nakhone
@Andrew: I have tried Andrew. I’ve kicked, I’ve screamed, I’ve fought within my own community just so I can fight the true fight and it’s exhausting. I don’t have any more emotional capital to expand. I have lots of ideas and have shared them but people are either not ready to hear, not capable of hearing yet, or simply don’t care.
I agree that we don’t have anything at the table right now. However, I disagree completely that it is important who’s at the table. Imagine unleashing the power of who we are unified as a whole regardless on to our enemies. It’s occuring to me right now. That’s our first strategy and I’ve been peddling it uneffectively, due to my anger and frustration or lack of know-how, which is my own fault. But, that’s what I’ve been trying to scream. We have to stop talking about unifying and figure out a way to do that. Start listening to the people of color who are trying to get their own communities of origin engage because right now because of past hurts or grievances, they’ve largely stayed on the sideline.
I’ve suggested we get outside of our comfort zones and become an altruistic movement so we can build bridges. That’s one way of unifying. That’s my idea, naive as it is or maybe but it’s my idea. It’s proven to work over and over again. You know I never got around to finishing transcribing the OUT West Boot Camp where all the speakers that came and spoke uttered the same things. They all told us we have to stop being isolated, we gotta form unusual alliances, we don’t have to do this thing alone anymore.
That’s one of my biggest and most rewarding contribution to our community, when I stayed up all night transcribing the Reverend Eric Lee of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference giving his speech because it was such a revelation. He laid it all out before us. The history of the African-American civil rights movement and their strategy of economic boycotting and why they engaged it that strategy. He also went further to suggest that we don’t have the same kinds of limits on our community because our strength is in our diversity, also our Achilles heel if you ask me, so we have to figure our a different strategy that works for this time with our current circumstances. He also suggests how to define and clarify our messaging as it relates to the religious argument. Rev. Lee should have been invited to speak at the March.
If you look at the March, why are all the organizers speaking? Are they qualified to speak at the March? By qualification, I mean do they really have something to share or is this really about stroking their egos? Why are our fiercest allies who are the most effective speakers not invited? I certainly hope they don’t reject people who’ve something important to plug at the March because Cleve Jones or David Mixner is afraid that someone will steal their thunder.
You want a strategy? Here’s one: Get on board with Jeff Campagna’s THE POWER Petition to Expand the Civil Rights Act to include LGBT as a protected category. I’ve been plugging that cause for months. Rep. Jerrold Nadler is drafting legislation in response to that Petition to be introduced in Congress. That’s how change is going to come nationally, through legislation. Ok, I’m done rambling I think.
nakhone
Here’s a link to that post: http://socalvoice.net/news/recap-out-west-campaign-boot-camp-was-hugely-successful/
Swimmer - Chicago
The author is the Glenn Beck of whatever community he chooses to now associate himself with…..hatred does not get us our rights.
Old Timer
I read Nakhone Keodara’s article three times. His conclusions are clear — that gay organizations ignore the concerns of people of color — but he offered no evidence to support those conclusions, and no recommendations for changing things.
As a prototypical white male that Mr. Keodara is targeting, I’d very much welcome non-white leadership of gay organizations, if for no other reason than I get bored with the same pale faces.
But still, Mr. Keodara, if you’re going to go off on that level of a rant, I think you owe it to all concerned to have a bill of particulars, both on the grievances side and the solutions side. From what I can see, your contribution is entirely destructive, at least so far.
Rob
Keodara’s press release was unprofessional. You cannot use a press release to say that people who are supposed to be your allles are “self-obsessed,” “arrogant,” “childish,” and “selfish.” If you’re the head of a political organization, those are words you use only behind closed doors.
For those who are curious, here’s a link to the full text of the press release:
http://socalvoice.net/news/the-gays-united-network-recants-its-support-of-a-2010-campaign-and-aligns-itself-with-a-2012-campaign/
Andrew
@nakhone: “I agree that we don’t have anything at the table right now. However, I disagree completely that it is important who’s at the table.”
More than half the US population thinks we are wrong – morally wrong. When they think that there is no color, ethnicity or status – we’re just “wrong” – all of us. The people at the table need to recognize that reality. We’re not dividing up a pie – we’re working for equality – everyone’s equality. So, I believe those people around the table put themselves there one way or another.
You have some ideas and you are clearly passionate to the point of anger – learn how to use that effectively. Go run a Marathon (or just watch) and you will notice that everyone is allowed at the Starting Line but, only the Finishers get medals. A lot happens during those 26 miles, some quit, some get discouraged, some complain – but most runners don’t even notice the others in the race, except for the words of encouragement. They simply help each other.
The LGBT “Movement” is a mess. It is frustrating. It is difficult. But, we must finish and we must win. No excuses.
Sydney
Well, now that I wasted my time reading another one of his shitty articles that I don’t care about, I’ll go back to being a mean, hateful, angry WHITE GAYYYYY!
Jennifer
Nakhone, thank you for saying that. I’d like to add “misogyny” to your list of things the community needs to deal with.
aaron
@nakhone:
“Ok, I’m done rambling I think.”
I’m not holding my breath.
Wayne
This whole “I Quit/Sarah Palin Syndrome” is not only petty, but truly BORING as well. Cry me a river already. Quiters never win.
Adam
@ Rob: Also in the press release were some grammatical errors that probably wouldn’t have passed muster in high school freshman English…
– “not ALL members of the LGBT community is on board”
– “…the hard work it will take to really build a community for all of the US’s”
– “we had to take into consideration recent developments as it relates…”
And, yes, that pales in comparison to using words like self-obsessed, arrogant, and childish. As Old Timer points out, there’s no evidence here, only rants.
Cam
@Jennifer: You said “Nakhone, thank you for saying that. I’d like to add “misogyny” to your list of things the community needs to deal with.”
_________________________
Of in your opinion I’m sure there isn’t anything wrong when, even though gay bars do not screen out women. Many lesbian bars have a no man policy unless he is accompanied by women.
Chitown Kev
No comment is all I can say for the time being.
Old Timer
I am one of those targeted by Nakhone Keodara, i.e., a white gay man. I read this column and his last one about the strategy for California. I agree with the strategy column, but I think it’s extremely unfortunate that he wrote his latest one.
Given that he didn’t give a bill of particulars as it concerns his core accusation — that gay organizations ignore the concerns of people of color — I can do one of two things. I can either dismiss his critique out of hand, as many here have done, or I can made some guesses as to what’s going on and try to impart some perspective. I choose Door #2.
The typical gay organization that I’ve run into over the years is dominated by whites in their 40s. This isn’t surprising, really. That’s who runs corporate America in general. Moreover, communities of color — black, Latino, and Asian — are, in general, somewhat behind the curve when it comes to the “out-and-proud” phenomenon.
A lot of gay organizations dominated by whites would love to have people of color in their management ranks, but tell me that the people simply aren’t there. I realize, as do the white people I talk to, that there is a “chicken and egg” phenomenon, and that the whiteness of many organizations is intimidating.
Yet, at the same time, no group can run up to the first person of color who walks in the door and say, in effect, “Hallelujah! Want to be our executive director?” People need to pay their dues, meaning spending time in support roles, building recognition. That’s how all organizations work.
Still, though, I can imagine what might be at the root of Mr. Keodara’s frustration. He has strong views on the right strategy in California, and my guess is that he feels that those views have been ignored.
Well, Mr. Keodara, join the club. Gay organizations are no different than any others. They tend to be insular and run by a small group, especially those who sign the checks. At this point in time, those people tend to be white males, and to a lesser extent white women. He who has the money makes the rules. It’s an old saying.
I find many gay organizations to be unbearably smug and insular, and unwilling to really listen to ideas from outside of the clique. But then, I tend to feel that way about “groups” in general. I am forever telling myself that I’m just one person, and that no one is obligated to share my stunning vision. Hell, I might even be wrong at times. Imagine that.
What’s really unfortunate here is the manner in which Mr. Keodara has acted lately. He has lost it, throwing a tantrum. In doing so, he’s likely redlined himself out of consideration for senior positions in gay organizations. He is a loose cannon, and in this environment we can’t really afford loose cannons.
His latest note is in the form of what you call on the Internet a “GBCW post.” Good-Bye, Cruel World. Anyone who is passionate about their views and has spent time in discussion groups has probably written a GCBW post in his life, hopefully under a psuedonym, and later come to realize that the ego rush from doing it lasts an awfully short time. What remains is the passion, but now without an outlet.
We’ll see how it goes, Mr. Keodara, but it looks like you’ve not just burned your bridges but dynamited them. And that’s not only unfortunate for you, but for the community you claim to want to serve. We need people of color in senior positions, and we’ve just lost one.
Matt
@Old Timer: I agree with you… great comment.
Forrest
Blah Blah Blah… all of us white people are so blinded by white privilege blah blah blah, none of us have any familial or personal connections with minority gays…?
WHATEVER
Chicago lost the Summer Olympics today and Keodara lost the Oppression Olympics too.
Get over yourself.
Qjersey
@Christian:
Trans inclusiveness in political efforts vary from state to state, but overall you are totally wrong on this point, see the newest version of ENDA
“you can get married” Check on your heterosexual privilege, another phenomena that gets in the way of community wide support of Trans inclusion. “I’m not gay (usually gritter words are used) I’m straight (woman/man)
The inclusion of intersexed persons, has always seemed shoehorned in. Intersex activists have made great strides on their own and have brought the medical community to their side for what is a medical issue. Similar to trans folks, intersex folks come in all sexual identities and orientations.
Bi inclusion is more of a challenge, again because of so many different conceptualizations of what it means to be bisexual among those who have that identity.
Queers. well that used to be just us, but now there are all these people who are not same gender loving or screwing taking on that identity as a push back against traditional male and female gender roles and presentation.
I used to hate the word queer, but it is the most inclusive: if you ain’t a card carrying heterosexual and “straight acting” man or women (who was born a man or woman) you are a queer…and that includes all the letters, L, G, B, T, I
Eugene
@Qjersey: “I used to hate the word queer, but it is the most inclusive: if you ain’t a card carrying heterosexual and “straight acting” man or women (who was born a man or woman) you are a queer…and that includes all the letters, L, G, B, T, I”
It seems to me that a major source of tension in this situation is that gays, lesbians and (to a certain degree) bisexuals are getting increasingly less “queer” in the modern society, and few people want to be “queer”. It means that the word “queer” isn’t as inclusive as you think it is.
Gay Rights are Universal
Wow, girl has talked herself into a snit!
Look Nakhone…if you don’t like the state of the movement, change it. If you’re gonna quit, then don’t bitch, and just quit, and become part of the problem. It seems like you’re angry that more people aren’t listening to you. Perhaps it’s because you seem emotionally unstable and unpleasant? For the record, MANY LGBT people of all colors think the march is a dumb idea, how and why would you quit activism because someone else does something you don’t agree with?
Grow up.
robco
@OldTimer IAWTC
Gay Rights are Universal
@Christian: Tracy,
Thanks for your reasoned critique of the gay-lesbian movement. I will say that in my hometown of San Francisco, I think we are breaking ground in terms of bringing attention and focus to transgender issues, and building a unified movement with them.
wondermann
@nakhone: Don’t quit…we need you to stay in the fight
Joe
Well we had a black city council woman who voted against a resolution of inclusion in Birmingham because, she said, we still have racial issues and we need to resolve those before we can address other such issues. Oh, she was also disabled, and in a wheelchair. The resolution was defeated.
Over the next few days she became more “educated” and later the resolution passed unanimously.
I know racism exists in the GLBT community just as it does in all, but I think most of us believe in equality for all, regardless of race, sexual orientation, gender identity, age and any other characteristics you can name.
“I predict that the majority of the attendees will be white because they are the ones that can afford to go to this March.”
OK, I predict the majority of the attendees will be white because the majority of Americans are white.
edgyguy1426
If he doesn’t BELIEVE he can affect the change in the community, then he probably cannot and is right in stepping down. These thankless roles can suck the life and energy out of the best of crusaders, and only the strongest will survive to make a difference.
Chitown Kev
I have a question.
What is the most important issue affecting our gay communities right now?
Mike Hipp
@Chitown Kev: factionalisim
Chitown Kev
@Mike Hipp:
Maybe. But oh, how I hate repeating myself.
“Except for a few minor cliques, homosexuals are in reality almost totally lacking in feelings and solidarity. In fact, it would be difficult to find another class of mankind which has proved so incapable of organizing to secure its basic rights.”
Magnus Hirschfeld-1927
Chitown Kev
For instance:
“They’ve ignored completely the plight of their people of color counterparts that are experiencing a double-whammy concerning their oppression within the LGBT community because of the color of their skin. It’s outrageous for them to simply say, “Well, we’re all fighting the same fight and you people should just understand that it’s for your own good too.”
When you are a ethnic minority in this country, that ethnic community also serves as a buffer against the racial bigotry from the majority (white, at least for now) society.
When you decide to come out as “gay” you lose that protection (by and large, there are many exceptions).
My perception of white gay peeps (and it could be wrong and/or stereotyped) is that it seems as if you simply move from wherever you’re from to one of many gay enclaves. Yes, ethnic minorities (such as myself) go through the same process but we also lose that buffer of protection. And gay communities (by implication “white” simply don’t (and maybe they can’t) offer that protection that we do get in our ethnic communities.
That’s a part of the “double whammy” that Nakhone is speaking of.
Fitz
@Chitown Kev: Me. At least to me.
Ardi
@Wayne:
Palin syndrome? She didnt quit but for a bigger paycheck…I dont see this guy wanting that.
Ardi
@Old Timer:
Nice statement, but the bridge he burned he never built….I think its always good to air grievances, so we can move forward…we’re all in this together..that will never change.
Republican
@Chitown Kev:
Many of us don’t move to gay enclaves and simply prefer to live our lives as open gay men wherever our careers and lives take us.
Chitown Kev
@Republican:
And where do those “careers and lives” take you?
And for all that you say, Republican, you still don’t lose that buffer of protection which is always at risk with an gay ethnic minority.
(Mind you, I’m like my fellow white gay peeps as regards to the “gay enclaves”)
Another part of Nakhone’s criticisms that I do agree with (and I don’t agree with them all) is that the LGBT is soooooooooooo Cali-centric (that criticism is not listed here)…I’ve bitched about that on this blog frequently.
Republican
@Chitown Kev:
Agreed on the Cali-centric part.
JohnVisser
Dear Nakhone:
So what you are saying is that people of color will be under-represented at the National Equality March and your answer to correcting that is to not go thereby further reducing the number of people of color LGBTs?
In my humble opinion, you are applying a stereotype to every person who supports the NEM when in fact you have no idea who will be in the crowd nor their individual views on the subject.
Seems to me that you should be working on ways to increase the presence of people of color, and not helping to enhance further division.
Just saying. . .
nakhone
@45. Andrew, I think I wasn’t clear when I said it matters who’s at the table insofar as our recruiting allies to join the fight is concern. People respond to those that look like them and if they see those people in power, visible and is actively recruiting them, it would make our struggle that much more powerful because we would have harnessed our diversity as our strength. I didn’t mean that it would matter one bit to the opposition. I was talking about our capacity building ability.
Chitown Kev
@nakhone:
I agree.
It’s one thing to get a person to vote for or against whatever gay issue hits a ballot or a legislature.
It’s an entirely different (and more powerful) thing when that voter (or legislator) becomes more proactive.
And yes, people respond to those that look like them moreso than simply some “abstract” notion of discrimination.
As much emphasis as many of us gay men place on looks, you’d think that we would understand that.
nakhone
@Chitown Kev. You got my point about the double-whammy bit but you articulate it much more eloquently. Why aren’t you writing? Just saying! :=)
jason
The GLBT movement is not a movement based on the color division. If there are more whites than coloreds in the gay community, it simply reflects the fact that there are more whites in society in general.
So stop playing the color card in a community which is already oppressed by law.
Andrew
@Chitown Kev: “What is the most important issue affecting our gay communities right now?”
We don’t have a Strategy or Plan to win our full equality.
A good Plan might reduce the in-fighting and frustration.
Andrew
@nakhone: I’m not sure the idea that “people respond to people that look like them” is accurate. But, we need everyone to contribute. We also need a Plan. I think a good Plan will inspire and lead us. All of us.
Chitown Kev
@jason:
Oh, dear…how delightfully quaint is the word “coloreds”? (/snark)
Anyway, I generally agree with you but the GLBT movement is not BASED on the color division, yet like any other subset of society how we experience “the GLBT movement” or “gayness” is affected by the very same ethnic divisions present in society.
@Andrew:
I’d agree but define “full equality”.
Not to get all Socrates-like and shit but how a person experiences being “gay” in the Castro or Chelsea is probably a whole lot different from, say, Idaho.
That might also affect how that person defines “full equality.”
Chitown Kev
@Andrew:
There IS truth to what nakhone says.
As a literature major, I would probably say that people respond to your story and the narrative that is laid out.
It’s easy to tell a straight black person (just as an example) that you experience discrimination and, therefore, they should support you.
But when gay newspapers advertise for, say, fabulous circuit parties and this is the image that is promoted by some of the gay media (and, more importantly, by the MSM at times) then your narrative doesn’t really match your claims.
(I’m not saying that NO circuit parties should be advertised.)
GBM
Well I don’t agree with this Jason queen using the word “colored”. Seems like this gurl here is still living in her grandfather’s closet from 1960’s Mississippi or something. And it’s statements like that why some minorities feels as such.
But the bottom line is we have a problem with race in this community and it will only fester, and fester until something tragic will happen then we as a community will want to dialouge about it. Then it will be too little, too late.
Prevention is always better than cause!
If we’re not on one accord this march is truly BOGUS!!!
Chitown Kev
@GBM:
LOL!
I’m laughing with you, not at you at the “coloreds” remark.
Brian
@Chitown Kev: “I’d agree but define “full equality”.
It means not being “wrong.” Every other person we meet, every day, believes we are wrong. That’s why they vote against us. That’s why the discriminate against us. That’s why Politicians won’t support us.
When that is gone – we can be equal.
nakhone
@GBM. Ditto Chitown Kev. I agree with you about the racist and condescending tone the commenters are engaging in. It’s revealing the true nature of how they really feel and only serve to solidify my grievances and prove my points. LOL. Your comment really is funny.
Andrew
@Chitown Kev: The GOAL is that the “source” of the message becomes unimportant. When we’re all equal there is no thought given to media images or stereotypes or messengers.
Challenging? Yes. But, if necessary, probably very helpful.
AlwaysGay
Another heterosexual (Sam Sussman) gets to speak for gay people at a gay event. Typical. I understand Nakhone’s frustration that the best speaker didn’t win instead an inadequate heterosexual won. Gay people truly are mindless. Heterosexuals are OUTSIDERS WITH PREJUDICES to homosexuality. The reason why a march on Washington is happening is because of anti-gay oppresion BY heterosexuals. So having a heterosexual speak to gay people about homosexuality and equality is LAUGHABLE. However gay people are mindless so they won’t get it, they’ll tell you that “we need heterosexuals speaking for equality.” Yet they NEVER realize that these heterosexuals only talk about equality TO gay people. The real point is to keep the status quo where gay people are always subjugated by heterosexuals, always told what to do by heterosexuals, always having heterosexuals determine what being gay is and perpetually disadvantaged.
Nakhone Keodara, you, have been listening to a ton of black power/ black solidarity messages. It’s corrupted your mind. If I didn’t know you were Asian I wouldn’t guess a black person wrote this given the remarkable resemblance it has to black power/ black solidarity messages.
Even though I am no where near getting married I have come to realize it’s the most important issue for gay people. Heterosexuals have passed Constitutional Amendments in 30 states enshrining heterosexual-only marriage. What that does is not only bar gay couples from legally marrying it also REMOVES gay people’s Constitutional rights of using the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government to get those marriage rights back. The only way gay people in those 30 states can get their marriage rights back is to put it on a referendum again where the public (heterosexuals) votes. Heterosexuals are using these heterosexual-only marriage amendments to remove gay people’s Constitutional rights to where gay people are placed in a separate and vastly unequal legal catagory. Heterosexuals are OUTCASTING gay people from their rights. That is what heterosexuals always do to gay people, OUTCAST us. Heterosexuals have not stopped with marriage. They have used the referendum process to put non-discrimination laws, domestic partnerships, adoption, anti-bullying and a variety of other gay rights up for a public (heterosexual) vote. So losing our right to marry by having heterosexual-only amendments added to state Constitutions have a cascade effect on other gay rights.
Kropotkin
About 95% of the comments here are prime example why this guy is leaving the movement and why we will drive away a lot of other people of color as well. Oh well…..as long as the White Parties, Gala’s and fundraisers go on I guess it just won’t ever concern white LGBT people. You’d think that lgbt people would know better.
David
Nakhone Keodara
You wrote: “I am throwing in the towel ”
Good bye then. I hope whatever else you do works.
However, demonstrate some integrity by living up to your own words. No more racist polemics about how white GLBTQ people are ruining the world. No more diatribes about GLBTQ people or our issues. When you claim ‘I’m leaving’ and then don’t leave, it means everything else you say is false as well.
This sad little game of “I’m leaving” that people pull, only to continue to harangue and complain, is just pointless attention seeking. It indicates that their past participation was entirely about feeding their ego.
Don’t be a diva, if you are quitting, then really quit. Spend your time and energy on something else.
What a shame though that you squandered your time haranguing GLBTQ people of european descent, when you could have been working to heal the homophobia still present in Asian and Pacific Islander communities. Perhaps it was just easier to vilify others than walk the walk at home.
Kropotkin
lolz, people of color who point out subtle racism are racist? The ignorance and irony here burns. 95% of the commenters here can go f%^& themselves.
Chitown Kev
@Andrew:
I’d agree.
But we haven’t arrived. Therefore, the source (or the narrative, if you will) is important.
@AlwaysGay:
If only we could translate some of those black power/black solidarity messages into our movement. In fact, I think your statement about Sussman sounds (as well as you “outcasting” statements) very similar, in fact, to what Malcolm X would say.
Chitown Kev
@David:
Who’s to say that he hasn’t worked on the homophobia in his ethnic communities?
As if gay white folks have done such a great job as far as homophobia in the white community. I don’t know any person of any ethnic group that has ever funded and advertised any anti-gay initiatives other than white folks. How’s those oh-so tolerant non-homophobic white folks in Utah or in the Central Valley working for you?
Chitown Kev
@AlwaysGay:
Actually, it’s the “Malcolm X” in you that I like about your post (other than race issues for the most part).
And I mean that as a compliment.
jason
When gay rights parades are held, there is no entry restriction on who can attend. Yet the number of black people in the parade is usually very small. I think this speaks volumes about black people themselves.
Chitown Kev
@jason:
Wow, it’s all about parades?!
smh
jason
Parades are a good start. It’s where you put your money where your mouth is. The black presence at gay rights parades is virtually non-existent.
Chitown Kev
@jason:
Where do you live?
Not only did I see a noticeable presence of blacks and Latinos at the Pride Parade here in Chicago but there were also a number of blacks that participated in the parade as well.
Chitown Kev
@jason:
Let me ask you this, also.
Given your hostility to the “coloreds,” why do you think that any “colored” gay person would want to give up the safe zone of protection in their ethnic community? What do you offer that can replace that?
Chris
I thought ‘activism’ was supposed to be about taking action for productive and positive changes?!? Too bad every gay activist leader seems to suffer from severe narcissism, even the ‘former activist’ author of this posting.
Hopefully you will be able to spend more time pursuing peace and love, and less time tilting at windmills.
jason
The proportion of blacks in gay rights parades is always very low, in fact often much lower than the proportion of blacks in society as a whole. Black culture is generally hostile to civil rights for gay people. Many black people want civil rights only for themselves, and not for anyone who’s gay.
If you don’t believe me, just look at the music industry and the proliferation of black hip-hop singers and rappers. Almost all of them are homophobic and sexist.
There ARE some fantastic black people in the gay community, but they’re as rare as hen’s teeth.
Chitown Kev
“Black culture is generally hostile to civil rights for gay people.”
And white culture isn’t? Oh, I guess you’re just talking about the white culture in WeHo and not Glenn Beck’s “white culture”
The way to get out of a hole is to stop digging, bro!
Chitown Kev
#102 is directed at you Jason)in case you couldn’t figure that out.
imperator
“The Anglo LGBT community refuses to listen to any of the concerns of the people of color within this movement and it will do what it pleases regardless of the consequences.”
Pray tell– what is the ‘anglo LGBT community’ doing that has these dire “consequences” being alluded to? What are white activists doing that’s so awful? If our sin is not-listening then try explaining what we *should* be doing differently. What is on the “white GLBT activist agenda” that shouldn’t be, or that should be demoted in favour of GLBT racial-minority priorities? Offer something constructive, propose an alternative.
CitizenGeek
I’m sick and tired of hearing about how awful white gays are for … eh … demanding equal rights for all LGBT peoples. As far as I know, the National March for Equality doesn’t demand equality for all LGBT people …. EXCEPT THOSE NOT OF EUROPEAN DESCENT (!!), right?
Seriously, it’s not my responsibility to make sure non-European gay Americans feel “included” every time I make a stand for the fair treatment of gay people. If Nakhone Keodara really thinks white people somehow have a responsibility to make sure African, Asian, etc. communities work out all of their problems relating to homophobia, income, whatever, then he really needs to come back down to Earth. I honestly don’t think it my responsibility to solve the problems of African-American communities relating to homophobia. Sorry.
AlwaysGay
@Chitown Kev: Thank you.
James
@jason: 🙂 OMG. This has to be the funniest comment in the thread! Thanks for giving a shout-out to those rare, yet good, gay coloreds. I’m sure they love your support!
Joey
@jason: “If there are more whites than coloreds…”
Oh Jason…. that condescending attitude of yours is so quaint and adorable. It’s like a time machine brought you here from 1951!
phil reese
Wow! Jason’s comments are precisely why I wrote this: http://www.bilerico.com/2009/07/why_are_white_gay_men_so_racist_why_are_straight_b.php
A lot of white folk hold some arbitrary hatred and rage toward people of color. The reason why people of color don’t want to show up to the pride parade is that people are saying shit like that when they get there.
People of color are not the problem. Neither are white gay men as a whole. The problem is the attitudes of insular, selfish people who make assumptions about whole categories of people and then make personal attacks.
Plsd
LGBT Americans should leave the Republican Party
Asian-Americans should leave the LGBT movement
Indian-Americans should leave the Asian-American community
OhYeah
I’m white, but certainly not Anglo. I’m not even invited to their parties!
Paul
@Christian: Wow, bravo Christian. Words of wisdom here. Thanks.
Eugene
@Chitown Kev: “Given your hostility to the “coloreds,” why do you think that any “colored” gay person would want to give up the safe zone of protection in their ethnic community? What do you offer that can replace that?”
Nothing we can offer can replace that – their parents and relatives will still be members of their ethnic community. And we shouldn’t blame homophobia in ethnic communities on white gays.
nakhone
@AlwaysGay:#88. AlwaysGay, I have always looked up to and revere the ACT UP activism for as long as I could remember when I first came out. From what I understand, ACT UP borrow a chapter from the African-American movement’s playbook so that’s probably where you notice similarities in my activism. Also, I subscribe to Malcom X.’s philosophy of any means necessary. Trutfully, I believe there needs to be both factions of the radical and the moderate factions of any civil rights movement. That’s just what I see looking at the generations that came before us.
I do agree that Mario Nguyen should have won due to the content and context of his speech not to mention his charisma, his ability to move and inspire people and his authenticity. Sam, not as much. However, I do have to part ways with you about heterosexual allies. We need them to stand beside us and advocate for us. We simply can’t go it alone in this fight. The civil rights movement of the 60s did not win its liberation on its own. They built alliances with people that they normally would associate with and that was one of the keys to their success. Let’s be careful not to discount our straight allies because they are part of our army. I think there’s nothing more powerful then to know that the truth and the light that we hold may inspire ‘outsiders,’ to join our ranks and speak our truth through their eyes. We should encourage them and welcome them in to our ranks and because it takes a lot to live out the courage of one’s convictions.
With that said, I still believe that Mario should have won that contest because he was the best. That was my beef.
nakhone
@phil reese:
#109. Of course you’d never done ANYTHING like that Phil. Hmm…if memory serves me correctly, I think calling somebody bitter and unprofessional is a bit of a personal attack.
wmcarpenter
OPPRESSION OLYMPICS!
nakhone
@David:#109. David – Wow! You know me so intimately well. It’s amazing how you can see through all my past, my present and my future in one fell swoop. It’s a big jump to make that leap from me responding to comments from readers who want to engage with me to me not leaving and that automatically means everything I say is false. I can’t wrap my head around the logic behind that one. Please enlightened us! I’m extremely curious.
As far as fighting homophobia in my community is concerned, and I’m glad you brought that up because it gives me an opportunity to provide some clarity as to the motivations behind my actions, specifically my writing. First, I’m out in my life. In all of my circles. I’ve made that decision at 21 and only recently did I have to make an instant decision to come out to a Lao American supporter of a cause that I was working for when he pestered me about going back to Laos and marrying a wife. I didn’t see the need to announce my gayness on the phone up until that point when I felt cornered. I’m out to all my family, my friends and my co-workers.
Now, back to working to alleviate homophobia within the API Community. And, let’s take pull our lenses and focus on the big picture, shall we? A little reminder of what we learned is in order here. Last year, the majority of API Americans voted No on Prop 8; 57% of African-Americans voted for Prop 8 where 67% of those voters believing that being gay is a choice; a slight majority (can’t recall the %) of Latinos voted for Prop 8. (see here for more info: http://socalvoice.net/news/qpoc-la-town-hall-strengthening-coalitions-beyond-prop-8/). So, it seems that the persuasion work is cut out for us not in the API community (and homophobia still exists there), but in the Latino and Black community.
With that established, let’s take a look at some strategy. I think it would behoove us if we invest some time, energy and resources in helping these people of color community organizations work within their community to do the persuasion work, which is what API Equality, HONOR PAC and Jordan Rustin Coalition have done. They’re asking for help with time, with resources and manpower to refine the micro-targeting that needs to be done in their respective communities. And, they’ve specifically expressed their concerns that community is tapped out financially due to Governor Schwarnegger’s blue-line item funding cuts to the CA General Assembly July revision bill. They’re saying that we need to take care of our most vulnerable social organizations that largely cater toward the people of color LGBTs. (God, I’m sick of typing all the acronyms Can’t we just say gays or queers?)
From several polls that have come out, it is clear that all we need to do is move some of the ‘undecided’ or ‘movable middle’ of these minority communities in order for us to win.
So, in order to do that, we need to build alliances with minority organizations and in order to build those relationships we would actually have to listen to their concerns and take their suggestions and not pre-empt a 2010 Campaign and publicly declare that “they can wait. We will go ahead with our Campaign in 2010.” (I’m paraphrasing so don’t quote me here.)
Why do we need to build alliances and why do we need to compromise on timing? Because if we want help from these communities, whose priorities are not always marriage equality by the way–some of them see unemployment, healthcare, and immigration equality as more important–we would have to give them something. And that something is conceding to their concerning of timing. If they’re saying that they need time to work within their respective communities and need everyone’s help to do it and if we want to recruit their help then it would make sense, I think, that we follow their suggestions. Otherwise, it won’t work. We won’t be able to unify our community, which the reason behind all of this “in-reaching,” I believe.
I still hold that our interactions and “in-reach” within each group has everything to do with our ability to build capacity. I understand and agree that the opposition couldn’t careless about the color of our skin in their hate against us. But, I was alluding our task of turning our weakness, diversity, into our strength.
From what I’ve seen on the ground here in LA, there are still not many people of color activists showing up for events, canvasses, protests, meetings and trainings, etc. This is because they haven’t been engaged. Once we can learn how to compromise, and by that I mean things like not going back to the ballot in 2010 in spite of concerns of people of color organizations regarding funding cuts to social organizations, the need for coalition building and the need to clarify our messaging as that will be a huge task that can not be rushed.
I want to suggest that we put off the 2010 campaign and help Latinos fight the impending anti-immigration proposition that will be put on the ballot next year. We need to really be holding town halls, engage the press, hold coalition meetings within their community and canvass with them to defeat this hateful measure. Do everything in our power to help them in their fight. Through this effort, not only they get to know us as their allies but our actions will show them that we’re not a threat and there’s no need to fear us. This will help us build relationships with their community. Can you imagine what kind of positive feelings that will produce from these altruistic actions that we talk on their behalf? That’s the task that is at hand for us in 2010.
Also, concerning the African-American community, now with the HIV/AIDS funding cuts to prevention programs, we need to be working within the African-American community to help them rally around the most affected members of their community because the people of color communities are the ones that are affected by this epidemic the most. Those are just some of my suggestions. It’s a concrete strategy on winning hearts and minds. Also, continue to do canvassing in all communities so as to refine our messaging for the work that is ahead for us in 2012.
Lastly, let’s help the API equality with their clarify their microtargeting messages in each of their respective ethnic group.
I hope that answers a lot of questions from several readers on this comments thread. This is where I am coming from and where I’ve always been coming from.
nakhone
To answer one of the comments regarding the notion that fighting homophobia within POC LGBT communities not being the responsibility of the (White? Caucasian? Anglo? Which word should I used? I’ve been getting flak for using each of those words to describe the non-POC LGBT community. European descent. Got it.)the LGBT community of European descent. It can also be said that it is not the POC LGBT communities to help you with your priority, which is to win back marriage equality.
Let me go on record as saying that winning back marriage equality and obtaining full citizenship nationally is my priority. I am and have always been or was trying to be the devil’s advocate. I do have insight into my community of origin and what I do have to say matters. At least in my humble opinion.
Charlie
I think it’s important to mention white privilege and remind everyone fighting for equality that we also live within a racist social structure, but this guy uses the worst examples to prove his point. He doesn’t end up proving a point. And he’s throwing in the towel because….there are obstacles and a certain amount of struggle involved? This doesn’t make any sense.
I’m happy to say I’m still going to DC
Jimmy
@Nakhone:
The fact is, on the continuum of civil rights in the US, far more has been done legislatively to ameliorate the status of POC than has been for LGBT folks ,which comprises every conceivable shade of person. Like it or not, the rights we win, when we win them, will be for all, whether it is their priority or not. No one group is going to get too far lecturing another group on what its priorities should be.
I think your notion of an altruistic movement is quaint, but within the context of the larger American culture, which is a ‘what’s in it for me’ culture, and is the basis for how we generally get things done, your idealism will leave you disappointed. I, too, would like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony, but most people are tone deaf. The movement is what it is.
Racial harmony was not the result of the Civil Rights Act or Loving -v- Virginia, however, they are landmarks. Whatever legislation brings about LGBT equality will be landmark also, and people will still go on hating us after it passes.
You can change the law, but you can’t really change they way people feel.
I hope you continue to work within the greater LGBT movement, because your passion can work for you. Maybe you are burned out. People get burned out.
mb00
@jason: ooooh SNAP!!!! I was just thinking the same thing…I mean, I don’t know the guy or have ever heard of him before, but I’m from L.A. originally and I know that the majority of all gay Asian men only dated White men.
Me, I’m 100% Mexican, but I’ve always been Equal Opportunity kinda guy.
So later him.
Wayne
Hate to break it to NakHone but racism against white people is still racism. Your angry attitudes and misguided perceptions of white LGBT are racist. Period. You are actively implying that all white LGBT people act in a certain way towards gay people of color. THAT IS A LIE AND IT IS RACIST. And you promote racism by your actions. (and for someone who was so fired up to quit, you sure seem ready and willing to keep defending your own racism. Maybe you should stop digging that hole).
Wayne
This whole “I Quit” now I want you to beg me not to quit, is childish in the extreme (and complaining about racism while putting your own racist attitudes against whites on full display only proves how hypocritical your entire selfish rant has been. In a word: PATHETIC). If you honestly think you are helping the equality movement by throwing a temper tantrum filled with racist bile against white LGBT people, then the only one you are fooling is your self. The only helpul idea you seem to have had, was to quit. So please, be a man of your word, and quit already.
Wayne
“As such, I am washing my hands from the LGBT movement because I no longer believe in this fight for equality.”
And yet you keep on ranting. And now after the thrill of the tantrum has worn off you are begin anew, saying “I do have insight into my community of origin and what I do have to say matters.” Really? You made it perfectly clear that you were “washing your hands” of us and that you “no longer believe in this fight for equality” So why do you think your words or your racist “insights” have any value to anyone? You quit already, remember?
spindoc
@nakhone:
Um, I thought you quit, so why are you still here posting lengthy yet somehow mostly empty posts? Ohhhhh, that’s right, because you didn’t REALLY quit, you just wanted to throw your little tantrum, get some attention, and have people go “Gee, he’s going to quit?! Wow, he must really have a point then!”
Here is an idea, if you weren’t lying then the biggest way for you to prove that you really were serious about quitting is……to quit and go away. The fact that you are sitting here arguing proves to me that you will be back in a month with another post about how the movement sucks and you are so insightful and aren’t you just wonderful etc…
Ugh, you are more of an attention seeking baby than Kate Gosslin, at least she has 8 kids as her excuse for her mood swings.
John Monroe
This is so poorly written and such a badly constructed argument, it is hard to take seriously.
The author cites nothing (literally not one thing) that justifies his vitriol. His main point seems to be that “white gays don’t appreciate the dual prejudice that gays of color deal with.” Okay….and?
Do you want it certified that you have it rougher? If a gay white man gets beaten in a gay hate crime, does he have it easier than a gay black or Asian man?
This is whiny, pathetic, and has no call to action.
Of course white people can’t fully understand the experience of people of color. Just as a mother whose children are alive and well cannot understand the pain of losing a child.
We all have different experiences in the world, based on who we are.
But to try to classify one type of discrimination and injustice as worse or more important than another is, plainly, disgusting.
Go crawl into a hole and cry yourself to sleep. The rest of us are going to live our lives, suck it up, and fight the good fight as best we can.
Wayne
One last point, I find the whole “white privilege” argument to be specious and overblown and more than a bit racist. I am white and I happen to have been born dirt cheap poor (Born in a small southern town in Georgia, my grandparents were sharecroppers and saw-mill workers. When I say poor, I mean friggin POOR) I escaped that hell through hard ass work and determination. Being white had nothing to do with it. You think rich white folks felt some kind of kinship with my poor southern ass, and gave me a hand up because of my whiteness?! Yeah, right. To imply that all whites have some privileged life because they were born white is not only untrue but an insult to those of us who grew up, stopped bitching about our sorry lot in life and rolled up our sleeves and did the hard work of making our lives into something we can be proud of.
nakhone
@Jimmy: #120. Jimmy, I agree that any rights gained will benefit all. My point though, and it remains my point, is how do we get there. As far as lecturing is concerned, that’s what writers do, I believe, they write, they teach and they lecture to the best of their abilities. I don’t pretend to know everything, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t voice my opinion when I see fit. Quaint or not, my strategic suggestion of helping other communities with their concerns have proven to work. Look at Harvey Milk’s dog-poop story. One of the biggest obstacle to any true dialog between the different factions of our community has been rhetoric that is thrown around concerning the other side, and I’m guilty of that sin as well.
It’s like a no-win situation. They scream that they want a strategy (I’m not directing this at you but only use it as a general example) and when someone suggests it and they don’t agree with it they attack you personally. One would only have to look at the ‘vitriol’ that others are hurling at me to see an example. They say, “Who made you king of people of color…” I never claim to be the king of the people of color but I am a voice for that community and yes, I appointed myself the mouthpiece of the people of color, especially the API community because–gee, I am a person of color!
I agree that you can’t legislate thought. However, the most effective way to change people’s hearts and minds is to let them get to know us. This is true from the door-to-door canvassing that I’ve done. When people look you in the eye and interect with you and listen to your personal story and you connect on that level, it helps them see us as human-beings. This is about how do we get where we want to go? The answer is right there in our faces, and I here to remind you, but sometimes people don’t want to see it. WE HAVE TO COMPROMISE. You may be on to something about me being burned out.
I did feel that way two days ago but I feel different today. This is too important for all of us and it’s second nature to me. How can one quit one’s own community and not do the work to liberate oneself. This fight is just as personal to me as it is communal and I won’t allow anyone or anything to take it away from me. I can see from everything that has been said that I serve an important role in this fight. If anything else, I will remain the thorn on the Pro-2010ers and the Courage Campaign’s side. They seem to want me to leave, quickly. I could tell that some of that are on here in this comment thread under a pseudonym. Thanks for the support.
Anthony in Nashville
@nakhone:
If your post was all about announcing the end of your LGBT activism, why are you still posting here?
Wayne
Why should anyone listen to a quitter and self admitted flip flopper? It’s all about the drama with this one.
Forrest
That’s a great question Anthony. After all, some of us on here are those horrible “anglo white gays” who have ruined Nakhone’s personal power trip. He’s mad about not getting enough attention, ego is colorblind.
Get off the cross already, someone else needs the wood.
Joe
Here’s the good news. There are, say, 10 million GLBT people in the country. About half a dozen are on here being all negative. That leaves a lot of people from which to draw for the march and for continued activism.
See you in DC.
Chitown Kev
@Eugene:
Where did I blame homophobia in ethnic communities on white gays?
I think that I even said that white gays cannot nor should be expected to completely solve that problem. We do, however, need to need to acknowledge that is a problem.
Chitown Kev
“Do you want it certified that you have it rougher? If a gay white man gets beaten in a gay hate crime, does he have it easier than a gay black or Asian man?”
No, but said hate crime is more likely to be publicized in the media (not saying that hate crimes against POC LGBT’s aren’t publicized). You might want to ask the transgender community about that.
Wayne
Chitown,
I agree with a lot of your writing. But sadly it’s apparent that whenever a white LGBT person makes the point that there is a problem with homophobia in communities of color, that white person is soon to be called a racist. Seems that whites are either blamed for the problem, or blamed for not fixing it, or blamed for not being more “sympathetic” to it, or just blamed for stating the obvious fact that it’s a problem. When does it become the responsiblitiy of people of color to address the problem in their own community? I’ve gone to several LGBT activism meetings lately, ones that I know for a fact were open to all, and yet gay white males are the majority of the people who actually show up to do the work. While I truly appreciate those few people of color who do step up, I have to ask, why should white LGBT people be blamed or accused of “not getting it” when so few in the gay communities of color bother to show up at all?
Chitown Kev
@Eugene:
I’ll tell you something else that our community can’t offer communities of color.
We’re talking about “privilege” an awful lot here, let’s talk about the privileges of being “Christian” in this society. We talk a lot here about it, in fact.
That’s something that the wingnuts and the Religious Right can actually lend to relgious communities of color: privilege and power. (I am not saying it’s right, in fact I loathe those black churches that take that bait, but it is what it is…)
Wayne
And Chitown,
Do you have any links or statistics that verify your claim that hate crimes against white gays are “more likely to be publicized” by the media than that of hate crimes against gay people of color? Are you speaking of the gay press or main stream?
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
I’ve never blamed white folks for the problems of homophobia in communities of color. (Shit, y’all white folks have your own problems with homophobia!)
Read my post 136. What the gay community is not in a position to offer communities of color is privilege and power, quite frankly. Communities of color aren’t (nor should they be) be considered so noble that they don’t respond to overtures from the Right wing out of a sense of “fairness” or “equality” ortheir previous history of discrimination (even if they will only harm themselves in the end, after the gays are no longer a problem, exactly who do these people think will be next?)
Forrest
The media by and large likes white and blonde. It sells, Elizabeth Smart, Natalee Holloway, Matthew Sheppard.
This mindset permeates everything. But hey I am a “white gay” and can’t understand this and am inherently racist right Nakhone?
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
Both, really, Wayne, but I think that’s dependent on the locale too. (I do have to say the I think the Chicago gay press, by and large, does a good job in this regard).
And…of course, given the history of police hostility and mistrust as regards both African American and gay concerns, I suspect that a lot of anti-gay hate crimes against black gay people go unreported (I can’t prove that of course, but that’s my suspicion (damn, I can’t spell this morning)
Wayne
“I’ve never blamed white folks for the problems of homophobia in communities of color”
No, but you seem to be defending Nakhone’s racist rant and power trip against white LGBT people.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
Ah, but gay folks in those communities of color are blamed for not working on it, as so many of you white folks have, obviously.
That can go both ways.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
I agree with him on elements of it, sure. Ok, a lot of elements. And so does Phil Reese (who’s white).
Wayne
Chitown, you can’t blame the media for not covering a crime that was never reported. I suspect you might be right, that there may be more cases of crimes against black gays that go unreported, but that points to the problem of homophobia within the black community, not racism by whites in the media.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
Well, in that case, it would point to all of the above (homophobia and media racism) AND black American mistrust of the police (due to systemic racism).
Wayne
“Ah, but gay folks in those communities of color are blamed for not working on it, as so many of you white folks have, obviously ”
So “gay folks in those communities of color” shouldn’t be held accountable for their lack of effort to address the problem in their own community?
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
By the way, I’m well aware of gay white peeps with personal histories like yours. I KNOW that it’s not easy.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
Prove that they haven’t made the effort.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
How much less homophobic is the white community? Doesn’t that all depend on locale?
With each and every ethnic group in Florida, the supermajority that was needed for Amendement 2 was reached.
Wayne
“Well, in that case, it would point to all of the above (homophobia and media racism) AND black American mistrust of the police (due to systemic racism).”
No. It doesn’t. The media can not be called racist for not covering a crime – when the crime was never reported in the first place! Homophobia within that community and fears of retalition are the reasons those crimes went unreported, that has absolutely nothing to do with supposed racist attitudes by white jounalists and members of the media and has everything to do with homophobia and a fear of speaking out against it within certain communities of color.
Wayne
“How much less homophobic is the white community? Doesn’t that all depend on locale?”
Sadly, very sadly actually, voting records and polling data across the country show that the african american community continues to vote against gay equality in higher percentages than any other ethnic group. Prop 8 was not an isolated event. Polls across america from L.A. to New York continue to show the same disparity.
Brian Miller
Why must race be injected into every discussion of LGBT issues? I seriously am beginning to believe there’s a deliberate effort to undermine the LGBT movement using racialism.
In a colorblind society, rights are rights. Anybody who wants to be involved in the national march can be. I chose not to be because I think it’s a waste of time — I think a more effective route would be a “gay political strike” where we stop volunteering, contributing and voting for Democrats until they get their act together.
But I really don’t understand this “hate white people” thing. I’m sure that if the author wanted to be part of the march, it wouldn’t be difficult.
Instead, he wrote an article that basically says “I can’t work with white people” and then accused *them* of bigotry.
Wake up girlfriend.
Brian Miller
And for the 500 millionth time, there is no “white community.”
I have more in common with a gay black immigrant from Kenya working in technology than I do with most white people.
Jesus, people, get a grip and stop the hate.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
Uh, no….well, that’s a part of it, but ask yourself why black Americans might be hesitant to report all but the most horrific of crimes. law enforcement has a horrible history in this respect (my Mom worked for the police Dept. for over 20 years and i know a lot of cops, I know a bit about both sides of this issue.)
No, the media cannot be called racist for not covering a crime but they can be called racist based on the selection of the crimes that they do cover. Don’t think that has no effect.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
But they wouldn’t vote against it if overwhelmingly wealthy and WHITE religious groups didn’t put it on the ballot…that goes back to that ‘religious privilege” issue once again.
Chitown Kev
@Brian Miller:
But…we don’t live in a colorblind society, sadly. Hell, I wish we did. Hell, I’m there in my mind for the most part.
Chitown Kev
“I think a more effective route would be a “gay political strike” where we stop volunteering, contributing and voting for Democrats until they get their act together.”
I actually agree with you 100% on this, Brian.
Brian Miller
They scream
Who is “they?” Name them. Actual names and titles, please. And no, “white gays” is not an acceptable answer.
Sorry Nakhone, you’re full of shit.
Wayne
“No, the media cannot be called racist for not covering a crime..”
But that is exactly what you are implying. That the media covers hate crimes against white gays more than they do of hate crimes against people of color. Yet you admit that the community itself refuses to report the crimes. That is a result of homophobia, not racism (An just to remind you, the history of police relaltions with white homosexuals is not that pretty either).
Brian Miller
we don’t live in a colorblind society
And we won’t until racialism is dropped.
I fucking HATE racialism.
I hate the fact that some people cannot see beyond the skin color of the person they’re talking to.
It drives me up a wall because it always includes assumptions about that person’s life, experiences, and wait for it… “privilege.”
And most often, it’s bullshit.
Nakhone, as a founder of a couple of failed gay rights organizations, has far more power and media time than most of the people he deigns as unworthy of his time due solely to the melanin content of their epidermis. The fact he cannot see beyond superficial differences shows that he doesn’t understand human rights and that the human rights community is better off without him.
Wayne
“But they wouldn’t vote against it if overwhelmingly wealthy and WHITE religious groups didn’t put it on the ballot…that goes back to tat ‘religious privilege” issue once again”
White religious groups? When was the last time your went to a traditional black church? African Americans and their vote is incredibly influenced by the black chruch and they made clear that they want their members to vote against gay equality.
Those “white privilege” arguments are weak and border on flat out racism.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
Well, they can’t be called for not covering a crime that is not reported, that is.
(and I know that they are selective about the crimes that they do report, there are 2 or 3 dispatchers around every 911 set-up in a city, so I know a little bit about the selection process of covering a crime)
Also pretty well aware of crimes against our community too, and the police hostility there.
So here we go with the double whammy again.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
What black church or black minister ever funded an anti-gay campaign, went around and collected signatures, that $20 mill didnt come from the black chucrch
Wayne
Double Whammy? No, just specious and unfounded racist allegations of “white privilege.” Sooner or later, one has to take responsiblity for their own lives and stop blaming others for their failures. We’ve all had it hard. Man up, deal with it, and work to make it better. Playing the blame game, or the “I Quit” drama isn’t going to change anyone life for the better. but it can sure make it worse.
It’s not about “privilege” is about personal responsibility.
Brian Miller
What black church or black minister ever funded an anti-gay campaign
Sorry, I call BS. Black churches in the urban communities of California were *major* drivers of the pro-Proposition 8 campaign. While they didn’t do big-money advertising drives, they actually participated in more effective grassroots politics — encouraging their congregation and friends/family to vote to eradicate the rights of LGBT Californians.
Further, there was a significant media blitz by numerous black religious leaders who claimed that the civil rights of LGBT Americans aren’t civil rights, and that stating otherwise was racist and insulting to black Americans.
Christians OF ALL melanin concentrations work closely together to undermine the rights of LGBT Americans.
Wayne
“What black church or black minister ever funded an anti-gay campaign, went around and collected signatures”
Have you seen some of Marion Barry’s new friends in the black church and what they have been advocating in Wahington D.C.? Did you happen to hear of folks like Donnie McClurkin during the election?
Joe
There is enough racism to go around, I don’t know why time is being wasted arguing about it. I am white,and live in a majority black small city in Alabama. A white gay man was abducted during a home invasion, robbed and would have been killed if he had not been able to escape at a gas station, by two black men who said they didn’t want any fags or whites in our town. We have a black mayor, 6 of 7 city council members are black, and the police chief is black. This crime was not reported in the media, nor a warning to the gay community, until we (the gay community) forced it by putting out a press release. The thugs were local, ATM photos were released (6 days after the crime)but no one in the community would identify the local perps.
I think racial (and homophobic) attitudes in the police department, and in the community, kept these guys from being turned in.
I heard this morning, 6 months after the crime, that one of the men was caught after shooting someone yesterday.
Old Timer
@Nakhone, as David said in #90, you left. Now go.
craigers
Ok, first let me say, I am very involved in the gay community and activism… and I’ve never heard of you. Second, if this tirade accurately represents your thoughts and ability… thank God you are leaving. You are doing the gay community a favor. Goodbye.
Jack
I wont read queerty no mas.
This is very chiflado of you.
Bye bye.
Plsd
“Black churches in the urban communities of California were *major* drivers of the pro-Proposition 8 campaign.”
Which black churches? Name them. Actual names, please.
Josh
@Brian Miller: “Christians OF ALL melanin concentrations work closely together to undermine the rights of LGBT Americans.”
Exactly. It’s because of the traditional Christian belief that “homosexuals are wrong, sinful and deviant.” Christians need to stop that or we need to boycott them.
Jim's Gang - Dallas
@Joe: ”
Here’s the good news. There are, say, 10 million GLBT people in the country. About half a dozen are on here being all negative. That leaves a lot of people from which to draw for the march and for continued activism.
See you in DC.”
We’ll be there. There are about 1500 coming from Dallas. The organizers estimated 250,000 yesterday. I think it will be 400,000. or more.
This is going to be huge. Sorry doubters.
Brian
Reverend Al Sharpton speaking about
Black Churches in LA that supported Prop 8:
There is something immoral and sick about using all of that power to not end brutality and poverty, but to break into people’s bedrooms and claim that God sent you.
It amazes me when I looked at California and saw churches that had nothing to say about police brutality, nothing to say when a young black boy was shot while he was wearing police handcuffs, nothing to say when they overturned affirmative action, nothing to say when people were being [relegated] into poverty, yet they were organizing and mobilizing to stop consenting adults from choosing their life partners.”
Link: http://ybpguide.com/2009/01/16/rev-al-rips-black-mega-churches-on-lgbt-prop-8/
Brian
@Plsd: “Which black churches? Name them. Actual names, please.”
Ask Al Sharpton.
Plsd
“I think a more effective route would be a ‘gay political strike’ where we stop volunteering, contributing and voting for Democrats until they get their act together.”
“Christians need to stop that or we need to boycott them.”
Hmm. So why is it not okay to boycott the LG(BT) movement???
Plsd
“Ask Al Sharpton” is the name of a church?
Wayne
Bishop Harry Jackson and Pastor Meeks spring to mind..
Wayne
From what I understand, Al Sharpton is actually a rarity among the black clergy in that he is very supportive of gay rights.
http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/workschool/p/AlSharpton.htm
Brian
@Plsd: “Hmm. So why is it not okay to boycott the LG(BT) movement???”
Because LGBT people don’t make other people wrong or unequal. Christians do. Christians have made us wrong for 2,000 years. If we continue to allow that, we will never be equal.
Brian
@Plsd: “”Ask Al Sharpton” is the name of a church?
You’re not very bright, are you?
Look at Post 174, click the link, and read a bit. It won’t hurt.
The Swimmer
Good riddance loser!
If you think the LGBT movement is white-washed (and it is) you should do more to change it from the inside. Your bitchy tirade and quitting is more stereotypical of LGBT Americans than anything I have ever seen.
As far as I know you don’t represent anybody high and mighty. This is just an attention-grabber and it has miserably failed. I think many of us strongly agree there needs to be group cohesion with racial groups. I agree I too am annoyed by some of Hollywood’s smugness (I am a Southwestern boy). That doesn’t mean you should bash MILLIONS of hard-working LGBT activists of all races and creeds who have spent blood sweat and tears fighting for equality.
So with all due respect… FUCK YOU VERY MUCH!
Jay
@Jim’s Gang: You wrote: “The organizers estimated 250,000 yesterday.”
I’ve heard them now use the 100,000 figure. When/where/who told you 250? I’m not saying they didn’t say that, I’m just Interested to know where you heard them say this. Feel free to email me directly, at: [email protected]
Plsd
@Brian
Name them. Actual names, please. And no, “Ask Al Sharpton” is not an acceptable answer.
Plsd
“LGBT people don’t make other people wrong or unequal.”
LGBT people don’t discriminate?
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
I didn’t say campaigned for it. I’m talking about who puts anti-gay initiatives on the ballot in the first place. I’m talking about who funds the advertising campaigns.
Very simply, why doesn’t the gay white community tell there oh-so-non-homophobic white brethern on the religious reich (Mormons, evangelicals, catholics) to stop funding these campaigns in the name of whitehood.
Then you won’t have to worry about ANY black person voting for or against gay rights. Period.
Cut off the head of the snake.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
And was Miss Bishop Jackson’s campaign sucessful?
The Gay Numbers
It hurts to be told to come out only to be told that you are not wanted by the people asking you to come out because you are the wrong color.
Wayne
“why doesn’t the gay white community tell there oh-so-non-homophobic white brethern on the religious reich (Mormons, evangelicals, catholics) to stop funding these campaigns in the name of whitehood.”
Perhaps you missed all the protests against the mormons after the Prop 8 Decision? I don’t recall any protesting the black church, though they were just as active and energetic in thier homophobic zeal. And though Bishop Jackson’s campaign was thankfully unsuccessful; the black chuch was very successful in helping to pass Prop 8, and polling data across the country continues to show that African Americans continue to vote against gay equality in higher percentages than any other minorityh group, most of that hatred is a direct result of the anti-gay campaign by the black clergy. So yes, they are sadly quite successful.
So
Wayne
What’s sad is certain people trying to throw out accusations of racism and “white privilege” when their own bigotry is on full display. Not to mention engaging in cheap theatrics in order to gain sympathy by crying wolf with the “I Quit” b.s. Pathetic.
Chitown Kev
@Brian:
See, at least you’re focused on religion and not “melanin content”
I really don’t mind the focus on black homophobia but don’t hold black people more accountable for homophobia BECAUSE their black.
That’s where I start having issues.
I don’t go on saying oh how much we’ve worked on homophobia in the white community…all that many of you actually did was move to a more friendly and welcoming area, really.
Brian Miller
@Plsd:
Which black churches? Name them. Actual names, please.
I’ll just name a few.
First Morning Star Baptist Church in Oakland, which held massive pro-Prop 8 rallies.
Foothill Missionary Baptist Church in Oakland, another primarily black megachurch, also held a number of pro-Prop-8 rallies.
Those are just two of dozens I’m familiar with who were huge anti-gay forces during Prop 8.
Most predominantly African-American megachurches in Southern California were also vociferously anti-gay and pro-Prop-8, to the point that Al Sharpton strongly condemned them.
Now, you can continue to stick your head in the sand, or you can deal with the facts on the ground — which show that RELIGIOUS BELIEF, not race, was the primary determinant of who supports anti-gay laws.
Black, white, Asian, hispanic, it doesn’t have any correlation to anti-gay (or pro-gay) positions. Religion, on the other hand, is a very statistically valid sample, and the black church — for the most part — was as vociferously anti-gay as the whitest of white churches (the Mormons).
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Chitown Kev:
Of course, mullah.
But you can’t deny that their not HUGE issues with homophobia within the Afro-A community? Why? Because you’re looking at socio-economical factors, plus the deep and twisted effect religion has had with blacks-first to control and then due to deep spirituality was all they could hang on to believe.
The thing is, a lot of the white’s that came to the US were fleeing persecution, inc the Anglo’s, which is why they have this do or die attitude…many blacks were not, unless they are immigrants-the Africans who tend to have their own millieu and esp East African’s very studious, so already there you are fighting a ‘negative’-slavery with a ‘positive’-pioneers.
This is so complexed that I’m not sure why you’re bothering to be fair…
The AA community has huge issues of self hate that are still so deeprooted. I need to be accepted that is somewhat aggressive and short sighted.
Anything to not be seen as they always have. And I’m guessing as well as their obession with religion, this also adds to the fact and fear over people who are gay.
I personally don’t agree with N’s rant, I see his point and have been there but with this day and age with ‘transparent organisations’ being all the hype, he could create something but I guess he’s very instantanious.
I don’t mean to a boring organisational strategist but look @ crowd sourcing, financing? The world can be yours but no need to hate on a culture/group that is insticntively human and out for number one-always..gay whites. It’s not personal, me don’t think, just human.
Brian Miller
And yes, I am aware that there are pro-gay Christian denominations in the church world. They are a minority across every major denomination other than Jews, Quakers, and Unitarians however. In most cases, they are a tiny minority.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
“after the Prop 8 Decision?”
How about stopping the Mormon Church from spending $20 million in the first place? Along with the Knights of Columbus? Ain’t they supposed to be your white peeps?
The Gay Numbers
@Brian Miller: You are right. Slavery would never have happened if it was not for the blacks pointing out they were being taken into slavery. The same with jim crow. The problem with your statemnets is they are not related to reality. Racism exists becaue people are bigots. Putting your head in the sand will not change that.
Chitown Kev
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
I am not denying that? But how much POWER do they have is the question. And where is this additional power coming from? It’s not being self-generated within the community itself.
Brian Miller
If anybody wants to see a large list of the churches that supported Prop 8 in California, the list is here.
The list includes most of the large evangelical churches in the state — including the largest historically black churches.
As you can see, homophobia cuts across racial barriers, contrary to the assertions of so many useful idiots who want to ignite some sort of race war.
The Gay Numbers
@Wayne: No- Sharpton is just the most evident. There are a plenty. but they are not as sexy as claiming all blacks are homophobic. Even the numbers were split 60/40 in CA for prop 8- so where is the 40 percent coming from? And in MI it was 55/45 etc. Blacks are no more a monolith than whites.
The Gay Numbers
@Brian Miller: nate silver did a study or cross study of other studies- the 3 big variables for prop 8 were religion, age and education.
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
Actually, in Michigan the numbers for whites were 60/40
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
But it’s alllllllllllllllllllll about what happened in California with Proposition 8.
Brian Miller
@The Gay Numbers: The problem with your statemnets is they are not related to reality.
They’re not only related to reality, they’re factual. Black churches and their clergy are just as willing to play the political game for their own gain as any other church.
Even Jasmyn Cannick, who has made her living off of race-baiting in the LGBT community, appears to be waking up to that fact.
How about stopping the Mormon Church from spending $20 million in the first place? Along with the Knights of Columbus? Ain’t they supposed to be your white peeps?
I’m not sure if you’re joking or not, but in either situation, I don’t see why Mormons or Catholics would care about someone’s view based solely on his melanin content.
Again, the problem is *religion*.
Wayne
I absolutely don’t want to ignite a race war, and I absolutely believe that both white and black religious organizations actively engage in bigotry against gay people. And The Catholic Church as well as the Mormons have long been called out and protested against because of it. But the black church is just as homophobic and seem to have a stonger influence on the constituents when it comes to the voting booth. It is not racist to point that out. You can do a bit of simple research and check out voting and polling data on issues concerning gay equality, you might be surprised what you find when it comes to who consistently votes against our equality.
The Gay Numbers
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): I believe writer of the article wrote out of frustration. I don’t agree with the way he wrote his article, but I understand the point. At some point you just get tired of fighting people who are supposed to be swimming with you when you already facing a current that’s fight you in the greater society over the issue of being gay. Like I said above, it is hard enough to come out as it is than to also address bigotry from the community that claims you should be coming out. Of course, it is even harder- as I discovered to do so if you are coming out as I did when I was a low income guy. So, economics is also a factor. But the white middle class gay community just looks at any thing different and says get over it.
Plsd
Thank you, Brian. That is exactly what I wanted.
“Most predominantly African-American megachurches in Southern California were also vociferously anti-gay and pro-Prop-8.”
Most? Where did you get this info?
The Gay Numbers
@Chitown Kev: the break down for race was 55 black in favor , 45 black in opposed from some article that I read.
Chitown Kev
Here’s 130 pastors (mixed race) in DC alone.
http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2009/06/prominent-black-pastors-100-dc-clergy-rally-for-marriage-equality.html
Wayne
The Gay Numbers
Where did you get that polling sample from?
The Gay Numbers
@Brian Miller: I was referring to the comment about the racial element being about people bringing up race.
I agree with your point about what is at the root of homophobia. It is religion. Not race. However, I believe it was you who also argued that race would be a non factor if we did not discuss it? Or did I read that wrong?
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Chitown Kev:
I don’t mean to sound cheesy but yeah there’s no power but that’s only if you’re concept of power is about waiting for people or orgs to look at you or try to support you, when they’re pretty clueless, so it comes from within.
Playing a good strategic game.
There’s a decent amount of black gay men in the US, they could contribute if you created an open network that gave them some kind of privacy, i.e if they financially contribute, their name doesn’t have to appear or something on a site…
I dunno-still issues with were you are putting your finances…but it’s a pity that many blacks (not jus AA’s) are socially conservative because many of the whit gays got into the whole boho lefty lifestyle and were able to find a home there-and I don’t mean sleeping around…
But it is diff in the UK….when I was saying this, I was thinking of Nottting Hill etc and stuff…
People will always be racist but damn, I’d rather die then let them make me a victim.
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
No, I’m talking about the white breakout in Michigan. 60 for Proposal 2, 40 against. The whites in Michigan are more homophobic than the blacks, statistically speaking.
Brian Miller
Most? Where did you get this info?
Check the list I provided and name me any megachurches that were missed or that were anti-Prop 8. I can’t do *all* your work for you…
@The Gay Numbers:
the white middle class gay community just looks at any thing different and says get over it.
Not true. I’m white and middle class and I will happily help you in any way that I can.
Of course, what you’ll learn along the way is that the “gay leadership” doesn’t care what *I* think either — nor what most gay people (regardless of skin color) think. Then you’ll have to let go of the massive gulf you’ve created entirely in your mind between diverse communities… which is difficult for many people.
My e-mail is on my post title — feel free to e-mail me any time and we can get started!
The Gay Numbers
@Wayne: Nate silver and others covered it. t
The Gay Numbers
@Chitown Kev: REally? Interesting.
Chitown Kev
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
but I’m a black gay and I’m into the boho lefty style. I actually physically have left the black community for some time (other than trips home every once in a while).
But I do undertstand why some choose to stay in the black community, in spite of the homophobia, though.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@The Gay Numbers:
Yeah, it’s called ’empathy’, which isn’t a human instinct it seems BUT can be learned when you have been in situations that are negative…you learn to understand the ‘struggle’..
And that’s the biggest mistake, ‘Yes’ they are gay but how and why should they understand how it feels to be persercuted as a black/asian/indian person?
I’ve been there and never again. You may be for the ‘same’ fight but doesn’t mean you have the same ‘end game’.
N could’ve done it better, to truly create debate…but he wrote in a Queerty style which shuts me off..
The Gay Numbers
@Brian Miller: I think most are frustrated with the public image of the gay movement. It is not just about race for me either. I found it offensive in CA that they did not cover low income gay people because those are the people most affected by a lack of equality.
Brian Miller
@The Gay Numbers: I believe it was you who also argued that race would be a non factor if we did not discuss it
Race is a factor because people make it one. There’s a difference between sharing viewpoints and shouting out insults… most debates around race tend towards the latter quite quickly and become hierarchies of exclusion and depersonalization. Once someone is told that his experience doesn’t matter or that he “doesn’t get it” simply because of his melanin content, then racialism takes root.
I would remind folks that racism is *not* negativity towards people who aren’t like you — rather, it’s a belief that “races” (other than the human race) *even exist*.
Chitown Kev
@Brian Miller:
Which gets back to Hirschfeld’s point (made over 80 years ago) about solidarity in the gay community.
If it wasn’t race, it would be something else.
Chitown Kev
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
“in a Queerty style”
LOL!
The Gay Numbers
@Brian Miller: thx, but to be honest, right now my life is focused on addressing family issues and building my business. i have given up in the last year and half or so on caring about the community or for that matter starting to not care about my country either. despite the horrors of my youth i never felt like that until recently. just have come to terms with the fact my society is a declining country.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Chitown Kev:
Yeah, it does suck. Being conservative-the people who are like you don’t care about people like you because they spend their whole lives trying to conform and judge.
And that is the biggest issue with the black community, not the white gay community.
So maybe, some small clusters need to be created before people who think they have NOTHING in common with you can begin to understand?
Wayne
So the solution is to scream “WHITE PRIVILEGE” and cy about how you are going to quit because things are so hard for you? Yep, I can see how that is a much better strategy to achieve equality than anything those mean white gays could come up with.
Give me a break.
The Gay Numbers
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): YEah , I am becoming a bit anti identity groups and other labels like American lately , and am focused on just me, finding a partner, building a business etc. So, I am not expecting anything from anyone any more in the greater community. I just think we do not talk enough about how it hurts us (well me at least) to have people talk a good game about being inclusive, and then to realize that they only mean including them- no one else.
Brian Miller
@The Gay Numbers: If there were gaps in the campaign, that was a problem.
I know I’m regularly excluded from “gay equality” campaigns because I’m not a liberal partisan Democrat.
Rather than demand a “place at the table” of these coffee clique “equality forums,” I work on grass roots action and work to ensure resources (of all types) go towards what I think is important.
Most of the “professional gay” stuff is a waste of time and a way for some people to make six-figure salaries in quasi-political careers. If people want to see real change, they have to make it happen as part of a coalition through all channels — working with people who are very different from them.
Anyone who knows me knows I’m open to working with anyone who has a good faith desire to do so. An open mind is a good thing and there are far too many closed minds who are ready to stereotype — including within the LGBT universe.
Chitown Kev
@Brian Miller:
Yeah, but there is no such thing as a “gay race” (though to be honest, AlwaysGay’s rhetoric is actually what it would sound like, that’s why I like what he posts (other than race/melanin issues, for the most part).
The Gay Numbers
@Brian Miller: pretending something does not exist does not change the fact it exists. it’s really that simple.
Brian Miller
@The Gay Numbers: right now my life is focused on addressing family issues and building my business
Fair enough, but if you choose to disengage, you lose your moral right to criticize/critique the engagement.
The Gay Numbers
@Brian Miller: re reading what you wrote- I agree now with whatyou say about race.
Brian Miller
@The Gay Numbers: pretending something does not exist does not change the fact it exists
The best way to kill that which is contemptible is to studiously ignore it or laugh it off.
Racism (in all its forms) is thoroughly absurd. It’s laughable. One can give it power over your life (and allow it to shape his own view of the world), or he can laugh it off. I choose the latter… along with persistent invitations to those who feel disenfranchised to join up with the folks I work with.
It’s a bit confusing to me that 3/4 of the time, those who claim to want a place at the table turn down the seat when it’s offered to them.
The Gay Numbers
@Brian Miller: Yes I do have a right to my opinion. It is not that I have no tried. It is that I have and now have earned a right to pursue other things. There is nothing that should require me to ignore building those other things , which alone are a lot of work, just because of the society I live in.
AlwaysGay
What it really boils down to is Nakone wants to deal with racial issues first. Go ahead. Just don’t throw trash in gay people’s backyard and expect us to take it. Gay issues and gay people are my priority.
Brian Miller
@Chitown Kev: There is no such thing as a “gay race” just like there is no such thing as a “race.” There is no “race” other than the human one.
Humans have a number of diverse characteristics. Assholes a thousand years ago decided that melanin content was unique as a trait to use to divide people and allow some people to “own” others. If evolution had gone differently, it would have been some other trait — height, hair/absence of hair, nose size, jawline, etc.
“Race” is an inherently medieval concept. It’s time to get over it and accept that we’re all humans. The sooner we do that, the sooner we’ll all be free.
Chitown Kev
@Wayne:
I don’t disagree with a word of this as far as what happens in the voting booth, Wayne.
My question is who is driving this to the ballot in the first place. The black community wasn’t collectiong signatures on Prop 8 before the decision to grant marriage equality in California was announced. The Mormon Church had been preparing for that fight for almost a decade.
That was also part of Karl Rove’s master plan to cause a schism between 2 pillars of the Democratic coalition. And its’ working like a charm.
Brian Miller
@The Gay Numbers: You have the right to focus on whatever area interests/requires you… but if you turn down the opportunity to work in another area, you’re also abdicating the moral responsibility to comment on how things are done there.
I sincerely believe that only those who pitch in should have a voice in voluntary endeavors like gay rights. Disengagement, in my mind, equals disaffiliation… which means that complaints of disenfranchisement become difficult to legitimately make.
Chitown Kev
@Brian Miller:
O, I know that, you could construct a “race” of folks out of blood types or whether they are right handed or left handed, for that matter. It’s a totally meaningless concept in terms of biology.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@The Gay Numbers:
Yeah. Going through the same thing here with a few projects that were big I felt would be inclusive-but you have to just do your own thing.
I was actually ranting to a good friend a few hours ago about the lack of progress in the ‘fight’..
But I’m an activist by heart. It’ll never go.
Brian Miller
@Chitown Kev:
The Democratic Party long took its LGBT base for granted. And frankly, if the “gay leadership” is guilty of anything, it’s guilty of excessive fealty to the Democratic Party.
The arrangement has gone on well beyond good-faith limits. If LGBT Americans are a “pillar of the party,” it’s time that said pillar announced its plans to stop holding up the roof if Democrats keep spraying homophobic graffiti on it.
Instead, they’re busy singing the praises of a Vice President who voted for DOMA and voted against repealing DADT, and a President who cannot be bothered… then they wonder why nobody takes their indignant mews seriously when things go poorly.
If gay political organizations were a business, they’d be manufacturing government office mats, rugs and carpets because they seem to think their role is to be walked all over by politicians.
Chitown Kev
@Brian Miller:
There is a Malcolm X speech that speaks very well about this, of course.
I guess that those gays you’re talking about are the ones with “good diction” and who love to sip on the Dem Party cocktails.
Chitown Kev
@Chitown Kev:
or maybe the cock and the tails, who konws.
The Gay Numbers
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): I can’t afford to be. I am an ambitious guy who wants money and power so I can not afford to spin the wheels for the rest of my life with causes in which the people involved are not even swimming in the same stream as I am.
Chitown Kev
@The Gay Numbers:
Makes sense.
The Gay Numbers
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): PS to some degree these conversation on line have been the last few nails in the coffin of carrying. I am now coming to terms with this, and its hard because being involved in such a big part of who I have been since my first year of high school until now. BUt, I want these other things too. So somethings got to give.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@The Gay Numbers:
Hmm, I get that, I do.
Trust me.
But I think I’m more ‘opinionated’ then you? You seem more reserved but if a topic finds you….you speak/dialogue..
I can’t help fighting for the underdogs. I mean my Masters dissertation is about the essence of communication!
LAtheist
@Brian Miller: “Now, you can continue to stick your head in the sand, or you can deal with the facts on the ground — which show that RELIGIOUS BELIEF, not race, was the primary determinant of who supports anti-gay laws.”
Exactly. It is color-blind religious beliefs that prevent our equality. The real problem is we can’t tell the good Christians from the bad ones. HRC says 1% of US Churches are gay-friendly, so the good Christians are very hard to find.
aaron
Why does this childish rant need 247 responses?
Joe
Aaron that is the best post yet.
The Gay Numbers
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): I care about these issues, but I am starting to care about me more. What I am realizing is that you can not save what does not want to be saved.
The idea that racism is a problem in the gay white community is to mean uncontroversial unless one is denying that basic reality. Thus, when I read that this guy is having all these problems with the gay leadership, and these are the same problems I experienced when I was more of an activist, well, it just reinforces the choices I am starting to make.
It is not just gay white leaders. It is people like President Obama too. I think the U.S. is screwed because we are becoming a corporacy. Call me paranoid, but I do not want to be tied to this when the shit economically eventually hits the fan in the America so I got to start making sure I am financially okay. Even within my sector, I have seen huge economic shifts occurring over the last decade that gives me an early warning sign that if one is going to make money here they better do it now.
nakhone
@Chitown Kev:
“I think a more effective route would be a “gay political strike” where we stop volunteering, contributing and voting for Democrats until they get their act together.”
“I actually agree with you 100% on this, Brian.” I second that Chitown Kev. That would be an effective strategy, much like the sit-ins, Montgomery bus boycotts and other direct actions that the civil rights movement engaged in and it was a successful economic boycott. We need to find other avenues of social and political boycott because we have access to those institutions, unlike the African-American institution at the time.
To all the comments, I will ignore you if you will engage in a personal attack. It is in poor form in a public forum. I urge you all to take the high road and engage with us in this discussion about solutions. Thank you!
Now, back to the conversation at hand. I don’t know how if this political boycott would ever work because we have people like the Stonewall Democrats, the HRC and members of our community who are not willing to boycott the DNC as was evident at all those that attended the DNC fundraiser for Obama recently. We also have “leaders” like Barney Frank and Tammy Baldwin who are giving cover to the president and isn’t siding with us. Until we dethrone community organizations such as HRC and these other orgs we won’t be able to have any impact with our political boycott strategy, unless of course if we can successful convice HRC, Stonewall Democrats, Log Cabin Republic et al to get on board with our boycotts. Look at our most recent economic boycott A Day without a Gay. It was a flop because nobody took part in it.
Jason B
1. This is dramatic.
2. Nakhone: you’re dealing with people here. …And people are all different kinds of messed up and only one single person knows what it’s like to live the life (or endure the discrimination) of that same single person. It’s impossible to really, like, reaaaally know the personal experience of another person.
3. Is your aim to inspire or encourage other non-white LGBT people to follow suit and break from the mainstream movement, perhaps to launch a separate non-white LGBT equality movement all all their own? No. There’s only one movement. If you don’t like it, you can do two things: (1) Complain (as you’ve done); or (2) change the movement to better include and engage non-white LGBTs (as overwhelming a struggle this may be). No one’s glad to see you take the easy out by giving up.
4. Your blog–or letter of resignation–suffers from some serious typos and grammar problems. If you’re going to put yourself out there, make sure it’s polished because these issues diminish your credibility.
nakhone
@The Gay Numbers: #249. Thanks for your honesty. I’m so glad I persevered until the end with the comments. I’m exactly at the same place that you are. I’m at a cross-roads where I need to start thinking about other pursuits that brought me here to California, like following my dreams and putting me first. Your point about why should you care to save something that doesn’t want to be saved is exactly how I feel about it. Although, I’m still having a very hard time not engaging. It’s like activism is in my blood. It keeps coming back to this no matter whatever roads I try to travel. It’s good to know that there have been others who have traveled down this same rocky road. I agree with you that you have a right to pursue those other passions of yours regardless of what anyone thinks or says. In the end, we all deserve to live a life that is full of happiness, joy and freedom. Good luck with your business. What is it exactly, if you wouldn’t mine sharing?
nakhone
@Jason B: I agree with you for the most part. Except I don’t understand nor do I care about the credibility bit. Quite honestly, I don’t have a college degree. I don’t see how having those “credibility” is a criteria in wanting to affect change. Besides, and this is not an excuse but a reality for me, English is not my first language. I came to the states when I was 12 years old so I’m very grateful that I can articulate myself this well in a foreign language. I might not have an MBA or a PhD but I have an honest desire to contribute to the stream of society. That’s good enough for me. If people will judge me and my intentions on how well I write or whether my spelling is 100% accurate then John from England with a PhD who’ve mispelled several words is serious trouble with his ‘credibility.” Also, Chitown Kev, who I think is an extremely well-informed, moderate and well-spoken man doesn’t always have his spellings down pact either.
J
Willful ignorance.
mcgill
As Gore Vidal says “there are no homosexual people, only homosexual acts”
for christs sake!
mcgill
this is what happens, these problems, inevitably, in an identity label obsessed society.
Plsd
“…equality movement all all their own?”
Sorry, Jason B.
I can’t take you seriously anymore.
Ryan
Sounds like a few of you here have fallen behind on your required reading.
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html
Wayne
“To all the comments, I will ignore you if you will engage in a persona attack.”
WHAT A CROCK! This coming from the very person whose comments wre removed because he engageded in what? Oh yeah, PERSONAL ATTACKS gainst Phil at Bilerico. I guess you’ve forgotten all the names you called him? So you can attack anyone you want, and act as unprofessional as you want, but then want to tell others than you wont respond if they use the same type of language that you did.
Yet again showing that Nakhone is not only a racist drama queen but a HYPOCRITE as well.
Wayne
Hey Mr. Hypocrite Nakhone, remember these PERSONAL ATTACKS? You should, you made them:
http://www.bilerico.com/2009/0…..and_me.php
Pathetic hypocrite.
Rick
Reading these comments helps me understand that racism is alive and well. Flip the script. What if the author were a white gay man complaining about homophobia in a liberal organization?
Would he be called out for heterosexism?
Instead of trying to understand his points, most of you can’t wait to call him racist.
Nice.
No hope here. So sad. So typical.
TADPOLICUS WEX
The civil rights movement was born in part to progressive (at the time) religious activists who fully understood the inequities facing people of color in our society of the time. It was augmented by their faith and they utilized their collective doctrines to tear down stereotypes and begin to heal the horrific wounds of prejudice, separate but equal and even slavery. In other words the laudable secular inclusive elements of their ideology. BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE, that which frees can easily enslave. The same religious dogma has been used to oppress QUEER people from realizing their constitutional freedoms free from religious tyranny. I am truly sorrowful that people who overlap between being queer and of color so often become the enemy within. Not all gay people of faith, not many, but enough to undermine our equality. I am so sorry religion has fucked you up and left you conflicted. But at the end of the day I place my race and even my gender second to both my partner and my sexuality. Is it white male privilege, no its called love. So sir, if you intend to be a whiner who chooses not to fight for us as we do you then you can go fuck yourself!
dontblamemeivotedforhillary
What Others are Saying about Queerty and fanning the flames of (Reverse) Racism. I warn you not to lob rockets in glass houses…without an arsenal of lawyers…
Thanks for being the FOX News of Gays, a@@holes!!!
Another Gay Blog on Queerty
“so, the recent BGWE mentioned a friendly little exchange i had with the author, Michael Jensen, concerning the gays news blog, Queerty. i’ve been reading it for years, but the quality continues to degrade (imho) and many of the site’s posters are among the rudist, most insane people i’ve ever encountered online, and are getting worse. basically, it’s troll-infested.”
so here’s my question: what are YOUR favorite gay-interest blogs (other than AE, of course), and why? i’m looking to diversify my bookmarks 😉
thanks in advance for any recommendations!
“It’s the Fox News of online gay media”
“I find very little value in Queerty. Their only purpose is to put a negative slant on anything being talked about in the gay community.”
____________________________________
“It’s hard to be ‘straight-acting’ when you’re kissing other boys.”
“they’re snarky and depressed… but nothing compared to the histrionic commenters. do you have an idea for a replacement?”
“For good measure, they’re also racist.”
“Especially many of the commenters. If there’s a black actor or athlete who says he’s not for gay marriage, they take that as a free chance to say the “n” word. It’s disgusting. Towleroad is a great site that I visit as much as this one. Also, Joe My God, and Pam’s House Blend are pretty good.”
“so true.”
“there’s one specific commenter who i’ve taken to task multiple times for racist remarks, and the posts themselves often seem to race-bait. i’ve tried Towleroad, but i haven’t seen Joe My God or Pam’s House Blend — thanks so much for the recommendations!”
“…the seemingly endless supply of Hot Guy photos. As a source of soft-core porn, it’s useful…… But beyond that, it’s a boring bitchfest.”
“i visit towleroad, but hey…comments over there can get pretty ugly too. vicious even.”
“other than that, i dont visit other lgbt related blogs. i do visit huffingtonpost.com everyday which talks about every issue under the sun including lgbt issues, so eh…”
Chitown Kev
@nakhone:
“Also, Chitown Kev, who I think is an extremely well-informed, moderate and well-spoken man doesn’t always have his spellings down pact either.”
LOL!
And English IS my first language, I really have NO EXCUSE!
I can’t type worth shit, to be honest (45wpm max! And I have to look at the keyboard.)
Oooooooh, these perfectionist queens!!!!!
Matthew Viator
@Christian: @Old Timer: Old Timer
Truly fantastic insights — I wish I had heard them a few years back when I first started down the path of activism. Even hearing them now after having made many of the mistakes you warn against, I feel better reading them clearly, concisely in front of me.
Nakhone, let me just say that I appreciate your rage, as many times in this country, that insular quality to political change can be enough to make one rageful. This being said, falling into the trap is a desperate move.
Let me pose a hypothetical scenario. Let’s say that LGBT rights are, in fact, simply rights that would benefit white folks. Does this make them any less viable or valuable, legally or ethically?
I often hear screams of anger from some in the communities of color that white people are permitted access to their humanity, when this racial group denied access to theirs for centuries. That’s really nothing more than vengeance, old vengeance. It is as if racial minorities fear that if white people are exposed to still be struggling for their rights, too, it will somehow make people forget the struggle of the communities of color (CoC), or that CoC will loose their opportunity — as though rights are just some sort of political lottery that you have to scoop up while you can. The effect of this sort of mentality is to paint a picture of desperation, malice born of vengeance, and of people elbowing ahead in line because they think the faucet is going to run dry at any minute.
The best thing that these members of a CoC can do for themselves is to come to grips with their own self-hatred issues. As anyone in the LGBT community can attest to, being the subject of hate from the larger community creates a lot of shame. What’s worse, it becomes generational. I cannot believe that it is any different for the CoC in this country, because much of this reactive violence and anger are pretty textbook psychological responses to inner shame.
Nakhone, you’ve turned this into a pissing contest of sorts, as though white people could never know the trauma of being a racial minority in this country. To throw the ball back in your court, how the hell would you know anything about what a white person feels?
Maybe white folks who draw comparisons to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s for the modern LGBT rights struggle offend African Americans because they come across as presuming to know a particularly African American Struggle, but frankly, many of the mothers and fathers of that movement who are African American have come to the aid of the LGBT Community in this struggle. Precisely because they DO see it as similar. As Julian Bond once told me, “If any one of us are left behind, black or white, gay or straight, man or woman or transgendered, we are all left behind. We’re in this together, all of us.”
Modern America does not deal with racism as though it were the Jim Crow era, and pretending that boogie man is still under the bed is only causing misery to the certain members of CoC that see it that way. Most of the generations alive today never engaged in that sort of behavior, and preaching to whites as though they are the current antagonists of your life is increasingly ringing hollow with white people. You can’t shame someone for something they never did, and you never will. If you want to find some hardened white extremist out there to justify your old racial approach, you’re going to find them. Goodness knows I stopped looking, because I need to look forward, not backward. You have been granted every legal avenue there can be to end racial discrimination; the rest is up to you. I seem to remember the President telling the NAACP “If you grow up in [an inner city black neighborhood], it may be harder for you… but that’s no excuse to cut class, to not do well in school…” The President understands this shift, and he is doing the right thing by trying to pull his community out of it, into a sobriety of sorts with the current antagonists. White-baiting is just going to hurt you, not white folks.
I think that the next great fight for equality in this country will address this issue. I know it’s tempting to rely on some arbitrary characteristic to blame the world for why you have it so tough, but let’s be honest: it’s not an excuse, and it’s not honorable to let it be one. My partner is an arab muslim who had to flee his country to survive. He doesn’t have pity for himself, or engage in soapbox drama: he lives, and he lives well, and he succeeds. He is the Achilles heel to any ideas of oppression, because he doesn’t get lost in the characteristics that make it harder for him to live; he excels in his strengths, because a life that’s harder has only made him that much more determined, that much more skilled, and with that much more character than someone who had it easy, and never had to struggle for what they wanted. I thank God that he made it through that hardship, because I look at my life, and I see his strength, and I have faith that I can make it through the bumps in the road. Our contemporary struggle for LGBT equality seems achievable when I see him with me at Pride, at Marches, standing with my family at PFLAG, and standing up for LGBT Muslims. He speaks with moral authority not because of his race or religion, but because of his character. And that’s the truth I hope you’ll find for yourself.
Vatthew Miator
The best thing that these members of the gay communities can do for themselves is to come to grips with their own self-hatred issues. Much of this reactive violence and anger are pretty textbook psychological responses to inner shame.
You’ve turned this into a pissing contest of sorts, as though straight people could never know the trauma of being gay in this country. To throw the ball back in your court, how the hell would you know anything about what a straight person feels?
Matthew Viator
@Vatthew Miator:
Happily, I don’t try to, as much as I know they can’t really know a gay person’s struggles. All I seek in this movement is the same freedom to live that straight individuals enjoy.
God knows straight people and gay people are all just people; the difference is that one of these two groups is systemically denied equal protection under the law.
I have a motto that I think both straight and gay can appreciate: Equal rights for Equal Taxation. For my income level, I pay the same amount in taxes as every other person in the world; I think it’s time I get the same rights for my taxes that they get.
Vatthew Miator
“All I seek in this movement is the same freedom to live that straight individuals enjoy.”
What do you mean by “freedom to live”?
Do you seek merely “equal protection under the law” or an equal standing in society as well?
I think Nakhone seeks both, and for that you label him a self-hater.
anyway
Meanwhile, while the drama queens gaze at their navels, Washington and Maine are on the verge of losing the gay rights advances they made earlier this summer.
Matthew Viator
I can’t hope to sway the hearts of idiots and fanatics; society is a longer struggle, and presumably one that will require generational change for any sort of lasting equality to take hold — the sort of equality that renders us blind to our differences.
The most I can hope for is equal protection under the law; if I have to prosecute my right to equal treatment, so be it. You can hate me for being a [gay expletive] personally, but protections enshrined in the law go a long way to protect me personally and professionally. That is the freedom to live: having a legal avenue to enforce equal opportunity in society.
Humanity is bad at popularity contests, and the economic, professional, and legal detriments faced by LGBT individuals are real and immediate. We must work toward social standing as well, but the eminent need for basic legal protections to stave off personal and financial ruin is real. The New York Times is now reporting the lifetime loss to LGBT families due to unequal treatment under the law to be around $467,000.00 per family. That’s nearly half a million dollars that just evaporates because the people don’t have the courage to apply the 14th Amendment responsibly.
I label him a vindictive reactionary, whether he’s filled with racial shame or otherwise. That rage will eventually subside, and I’m sure he isn’t some blood-thirsty white-hater. Posting a GBCW post so rashly, however, raises serious questions about his judgment, as other posters have touched on previously.
I am also speak truth to a political reality in America: white-baiting doesn’t work, and it isn’t going to any time soon. Nakhone’s article bleeds racial rage, and that’s neither fair nor constructive. You can defend it, but you’re not doing him a favor, and neither is he. If what he really seeks is racial equality, he has to start with himself.
nakhone
@Matthew Viator. First off, your acronym “CoC” for communities of color maybe creative but it’s objectionable as it is not a compliment to the heterosexual people of color. The PC term to use and acronym would be people of color communities. I think you can see how the connotation of “CoC” could be demeaning and contemptuous to outsiders.
With that said, although I agree a lot of the points that you made, however, your assumption that racial discrimination doesn’t occur in today’s society makes you come across as insular yourself. I came out in Atlanta and have experience many racial slights because of being Asian. White LGBTs can’t relate to that or might not be able to empathize with that because you haven’t experience it due to your white privilege doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and to dismiss it as being a “hollow” cry doesn’t advance your argument.
“I often hear screams of anger from some in the communities of color that white people are permitted access to their humanity, when this racial group denied access to theirs for centuries. That’s really nothing more than vengeance, old vengeance. It is as if racial minorities fear that if white people are exposed to still be struggling for their rights, too, it will somehow make people forget the struggle of the communities of color (CoC), or that CoC will loose their opportunity — as though rights are just some sort of political lottery that you have to scoop up while you can. The effect of this sort of mentality is to paint a picture of desperation, malice born of vengeance, and of people elbowing ahead in line because they think the faucet is going to run dry at any minute.
The best thing that these members of a CoC can do for themselves is to come to grips with their own self-hatred issues. As anyone in the LGBT community can attest to, being the subject of hate from the larger community creates a lot of shame. What’s worse, it becomes generational. I cannot believe that it is any different for the CoC in this country, because much of this reactive violence and anger are pretty textbook psychological responses to inner shame.”
I don’t know how to respond to that but say that I won’t cuss. Your getting inside the heads of the people of color communities and mind-reading their motivations is disingenuous and will only serve to resent the whites. I agree with the African-American community, and I have not always, that the LGBT community’s struggle for civil rights comes nowhere near comparable to their struggle because our fight is vastly different then theres. They were denied access to many political and social institutions that we enjoy. So to go and accuse their being angry at the comparison as somehow their streak of vengeance is to deny their wounds of discrimination that they’ve suffered, for 500 years, and continue to suffer today. To go and point to President Obama’s elevation to the first African-American president as an end to racial discrimination in this country is wishful thinking. Racial discrimination exists today.
In 2008, the League Against Defamation reported that hate crimes against African-Americans, Hispanics and Asians have increased by 5% (if I remember correctly). Here’s an article I wrote on the matter: http://socalvoice.net/asian-voice/first-they-came-for-the-gays-now-they%E2%80%99re-coming-for-the-asians-who%E2%80%99s-next/. Here’s another article for your reading pleasure: http://socalvoice.net/asian-voice/its-appalling-rescue-me-producers-think-its-fair-game-to-say-chink-gook-spic-and-cracker-but-not-nigger-on-primetime-tv.
Your call for us persons of color to get over our victimization and labeling us as self-haters is to deny the white communities responsibility in looking at your sins and ending those shameful acts of emotional violence against your persons of color counterparts.
I’ve read a copy of Alan Down’s the Velvet Rage and I agree that some of the anger I hold in my heart has to do with the shame I feel from being demeaned, dehumanized, condescended upon and rejected by the white LGBT community, specifically gay white men. And, all the hateful, catty, hateful and racist comments on this thread only proves that gay white men are a whole bunch of ignorant, privileged, insensitive, arrogant and contemptuous bunch.
Yes, I will continue to work for my rights and for the rights of people who would deny that I am their equal and those people who I am referring are gay white men. I will have compassion for them and I will practice accepting that this is where they are on their spiritual journey. I’d been trying to tell them to evolve already cause we need to get everyone on board so we can win this fight for our civil rights. Yes, I know that when the bigots look at us, they don’t see our race, our ethnicity or our social status, all they see is a homosexual that’s an abomination in their book. In a perfect world, of which we don’t inhabit, I know that we have to push all our differences aside and fight together, on behalf of each other and side-by-side with one another. But, we don’t and in order for that unification to happen, change has to come from inside our community.
Jimmy
@Nakhone
Do you really think it would be different if the situation was reversed? Isn’t hegemony just the nature of racial super-majorities?
Is your anger actually coming from your belief that you have not received the recognition you personally feel you deserve? Is there some messianic thing going on with you?
I’m just asking.
Matthew Viator
Nakhone
Far be it for me to presume that humanity is predictable, but frankly, it is.
When you agree with some members of the African American community that insist on a separation between their struggle for civil rights and ours, you only continue to perpetrate a lie. Civil rights will continue to be a universally needed political feature of individuals in a society. Stop assuming that people can never know your troubles, or that people are even trying. Stop assuming that this is about some sort of groveling, that people need to have their faces dragged through the mud on this. You’re making all sorts of racist and inflammatory comments against white people as though you have no need to follow what you preach, and it’s just absurd. Speaking as someone who has devoted a large part of my activism to working within communities of color (sidebar: that’s the term the NBJC used, bud, in my work with them, and has continued to use; if it’s good enough for them, it’s good enough for me), I understand the rage. I really do. You think we can’t possibly empathize or understand rage? Grow up dude. Your racial rage may be derived from a particular experience to your situation and characteristics, but stop with the holier than thou crap already. Admitting that you’re just as human as the next person, and just as common as the rest of us are, is a hard step towards unification.
If you’d spend more time getting the chip off your shoulder, perhaps you’d understand the entire message that is Barack Obama. Part of living in the contemporary world where EVERYONE is “utterly victimized” is that playing the victimization card is hollow. If you’re looking for an end to racial discrimination, that will never happen. Stop talking in extremes. Anyone stupid enough to think that pointing to Barack Obama’s message to his community to pull themselves up by their own boot-straps and work hard is a sign that racial discrimination is dead is a fool. Anyone who completely ignores his deeply important message because they don’t want to distract from the continuing existence of racism is a coward.
For the record, shame is shame. I would agree that “self-hater” is a pretty sensational term, but like it or not, it exists. A dear friend, John, who is light skinned African American, once confided in me the shame he felt in his status, in his race. We talked often about how he was uncomfortable with his skin color (colorism) even within his own community, and how he had never thought about where his shame had come from. He’d tell me at length how he didn’t really see it as white folks, but that it arose out of his circumstances.
Did institutional racism contribute to this plight, this unfortunate status? Absolutely! Centuries of being disenfranchised and treated as second class aren’t great. I don’t think anyone of any reasonableness is going to argue that point. Is white-baiting going to solve this? No.
By all means, curse all you like. If raising hard truths about race are met with enough anger to make you utter obscenities, then I’m not sure that’s anything I can help you with. Sounds like a personal problem.
As for the trite little comment about LGBT versus Racial plight, let me tell you a little secret: for 1100 years, LGBT people have not been enslaved in the West — they have been executed. They were so hated, they were not even spoke of. They were sent to Concentration Camps and not liberated until the 1960s. They were systematically destroyed for decades, or simply locked up with the criminally insane. They are the last resort to enforce gender compulsion, in all communities in this country. They are the ultimate unspeakableness, the ultimate offense to something more common than skin color: gender. It strikes at the heart of something so taboo in the culture for so many years that even 150 years of scientific research validating the LGBT community as neither ill nor abnormal has met with little to no effect. The Supreme Court has acted 5 times in 50 years to enforce an end to racial discrimination, the Congress Twice, and the Executive in an ongoing fashion through the Department of Justice. We can count Bowers v Hardwick and Lawrence v Texas as our only LGBT victories, however limited, with immediate severe backlash by state after state in the last 7 years.
I’m just not moved by a pissing contest, Nakhone, whether you’re asian and I’m white or whether she’s lesbian and I’m straight. If you really want to dig up atrocities, horrors faced by individual categories of people, all you’re really going to realize is that the only community that hasn’t been the subject of utterly horrific treatment at the hands of some purported majority is the wealthy, and even they took a hit in 1917 Russia and 1793 France.
You have no idea what I have done with my life, or the way that I die inside when one of my many friends of color are hurt on account of their race or background. Arab, Latino, African American, South Asian, East Asian: honestly, I tend to be the only white guy in the room with my friends.
I don’t have any sins to account for, and I don’t have any reason to feel shame for the treatment of people of communities of color, except the shame that every person of any conscience should feel at the mistreatment of another human. I don’t commit acts of social violence, and I’m not going to accept the blame for it just because I’m white. You are as racist in that expectation as a pedestrian crossing to the opposite side of the street when an African American Male approaches, Hecter Projector. Honestly, do you hear yourself when you say these things, or is the victimization blaring in your head so loudly it drowns out all reason?
I think the only person that needs a little evolution — or perhaps a little maturity — is you. If your preconditions for getting people around this table is some absurd demand that we see people in sharp relief for their color and act like utterly castrated ninnies dancing around everyone’s personal grudges and slights, you can just cash in that ticket, because it’s worthless. No one in their right mind, of any race, is going to agree to that.
Phil Reese
The tone of many of these comments is frankly frightening, and appalling–and I was the guy getting raked over the coals in the first place! I think all these comments have done is PROVE that we have a lot of education to do in our community.
all beef aside, these blanket statements being made about groups of people and these casual assumptions are disheartening. As a white man even I can see clear as day that its extremely difficult to be a PoC in the LGBT community. How hard is it to see that? Look at how Mr. Keodara is getting judged, not for his demeanor and tone in this post, but for his truthful observation that its not easy being non-white in our movement. I’m not giving Mr. Keodara a pass on the aforementioned press release, but give the man a break. He made a valid point about what its like to be a person of color in our predominantly white ‘my-shit-don’t-stink,-I-can’t-possibly-BE-racist-because-I-vote-democrat’ circles.
@Chitown Kev: you’ve done a noble job of trying to educate some of these troglodyte commenters, but I’m afraid to say its as Sisyphusian task–Queerty is an echo chamber (for the most part) and many of these folks come to these comment threads because they just LOVE to stay nice and warm inside of their comfort zone and NEVER have to deal with the fact they’ve ever had ANY privilege ever, and that they’ve EVER made someone of a different race uncomfortable with their behavior.
Not saying all… just… many.
It hurts a little reading a lot of these highly out of orbit comments, but I know better than to try and get into it here. Chitown Kev has a WHOLE HELL of a lot more patience than I have (clearly) because he’s stayed perfectly calm and rational with y’all through all of this. I’m unsubscribing from this thread, because I just can’t stand to get any more of this ‘I’m not racist, but all you other races ALWAYS pull this racialism’ nonsense in my inbox.
Once again–and my point in the FIRST PLACE–go after actions, ideas, not people. Making blanket statements about whole groups of people has never done ANYTHING constructive.
Vatthew Miator
@ Jimmy
The slights that Nakhone has experienced as an Asian are merely a figment of his imagination, just like the slights that you have experienced as a gay man are merely a figment of your imagination.
And yes, you should just accept the hegemony of the heterosexual super-majority.
Jimmy
@VM
I accept that there is a hegemonic heterosexual super-majority at work in our culture. A portion of it supports LGBT equality (and it’s growing), and another portion of it does not.
Slights are just that, slight.
AlwaysGay
Vatthew Miator, gay people would know how heterosexuals feel because gay people have been surrounded by heterosexuals from day one. Heterosexuals don’t have that experience therefore they can’t make assessments of what gay people go through. Heterosexuals are outsiders with prejudices to homosexuality. Gay people are INSIDERS to heterosexuality and homosexuality.
nakhone
@Matthew Viator: “You have no idea what I have done with my life, or the way that I die inside when one of my many friends of color are hurt on account of their race or background. Arab, Latino, African American, South Asian, East Asian: honestly, I tend to be the only white guy in the room with my friends.”
I’m puking. Enough said.
Phil – thank you for speaking up. I agree now, and it’s been a hard lesson to learn, that making “Once again–and my point in the FIRST PLACE–go after actions, ideas, not people. Making blanket statements about whole groups of people has never done ANYTHING constructive.”
This controversy has almost cost me my sobriety. The personal attacks and the name-calling hurt me so deeply that I was willing to throw everything I’ve worked so hard for this on year and a month and some change away because I don’t want to feel the pain. For all of you, and yes I know that some of you are smarter than me and more educated and have a better command of the English language and can do verbal acrobatics and have engaged in a lot of intellectual masturbation, but everyone seems to discount, ignore or dismiss the main point that I have been making over and over and over concerning our need to engage, support and welcome persons of color in our combine fight for our civil rights. Because of that, and because I refuse to subject myself to all these personal attacks being thrown in my direction, I will follow Phil Reese’s lead and un-subscribe to this comment threat. You guys can continue to engage in this parana-like feast, but I won’t be reading or responding to anymore of your insults. I’m learning a huge lesson from all of this and I now agree with Phil Reese and the good people over at Bilerico.com–that it is in poor form to attack someone personally. The irony that most comments of “off-with-her-head” and “Grow up dude” that has been thrust in my direction are lost to the people who are the ones that need to grow up themselves. Again, thanks Phil, for your kindness–that’s the true definition of class.
Mr. Bluffington
Question, I’ve slept with three black guys and more latinos than I can count. Does that exclude me from being racist since I’m a white male?
Totakikay
Nakhone’s post was insightful. I agree that Phil and Chitown Kev have been the most positive here. I enjoyed the read.
Matthew Viator
Nakhone
You’re puking? Wow, I’m arguing with Shannen Doherty in Heathers.
When you get off of your egotistical masturbatory marathon, pining away like a cheap Wagnerian drama, you might find plenty of people of all colors already at the table.
You can keep playing that sanctimonious victimization card, but it’s going to be a lonely road, because people just generally don’t spend time reasoning with a petulant adolescent. I know I’m wondering why I even tried to break through your steaming heap of crap…
@Me
400,000 now expected for historic March on Washington. This will get a lot of attention. Obama better speak – we demand our rights. We will not be ignored.
Chitown Kev
“This controversy has almost cost me my sobriety. The personal attacks and the name-calling hurt me so deeply that I was willing to throw everything I’ve worked so hard for this on year and a month and some change away because I don’t want to feel the pain.”
Nakhone, nothing and I mean NOTHING is more important than your sobriety. If you need to take some time away then do so.
Chitown Kev
@Anyway
I’ll be in Maine on Saturday. Not that I’m going to Maine to sdave the day or anything like that…
@Me
We need to get to Washington this weekend. Let’s get 500,000 people. Drop the excuses. Just get there. Please.
Chitown Kev
“They were denied access to many political and social institutions that we enjoy.”
Hmmmm. now I would disagree with this slightly.
To the extent that LGBT folks were in the closet I would say that we were permitted acess to those institutions (e.g. Roy Cohn). Those in those positions dedn’t use it to help the community.
I would say that as a community that we actually have very, very little political power and, to some extent, we are in a lot of denial about that fact. (I do try and explain this to folks in the black straight churched community, by the way, the the LGBT community can’t really bust a grape, politically. The perception and the reality are 2 two different things.)
Eh, I’m ready to leave this latest edition of Queerty’s race riot alone other than that how insulted can I be that some white folks here seem to know the black community sooooooo well that you can diagnose the problems of said community.
Chitown Kev
@Me-
Can’t do Me, my resources and time are limited. I’ll be in Maine.
Chitown Kev
Can’t do IT, I mean.
And would you believe that I worked in an editorial department for 2 years?
nakhone
An email from my supporter Ty Nolan (with his permission to reprint) and someone who’s gone through the same experience:
Just read your recent post shared by Queerty.com.
I’m American Indian. When the Millennium March happened, I was invited to speak. When my significant other and I arrived at our hotel, I got a call from a young representative from the March explaining they were pressed for time, so my invitation to speak was rescinded, but they wanted me to stand on stage so the audience could see me.
I started to explain to him what “token” meant when I was good enough to visually integrate the mostly White stage, but not good enough to speak.
Like you, I didn’t feel I was getting through.
We have a saying back home: “Like peeing on stone to wear it out.”
lol–what will you do with all your free time, now that you don’t have to waste it?
Please keep in touch.
Best
Ty
======
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 5:40 PM, Nakhone Keodara wrote:
Hi Ty,
Thanks for reaching out to support me. I really appreciate it as it’s gone a long way. I want permission from you to post the bit about your experience at the Millenium march as part of the comments on my Queerty article. I think it will lend my article one more anecdote that I am not alone in experiencing this. Please, please, please? Or, you could simply go on their and relate that experience to the readers as yourself. I would really appreciate it.
The fact that it happened to you in 1993 and you were actually invited to the march and treated as a token speaks volume and people needs to hear it.
I know I’m asking for a huge favor but it will take all of us who’ve gone similar experiences speaking up for people to start to listen and hear our message.
Yours affectionately,
-Nakhone
P.S. I will get back to my creative work of rewriting my screenplay and this is giving me something to rewrite about.
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 12:46 PM, ty nolan wrote:
Just read your recent post shared by Queerty.com.
I’m American Indian. When the Millennium March happened, I was invited to speak. When my significant other and I arrived at our hotel, I got a call from a young representative from the March explaining they were pressed for time, so my invitation to speak was rescinded, but they wanted me to stand on stage so the audience could see me.
I started to explain to him what “token” meant when I was good enough to visually integrate the mostly White stage, but not good enough to speak.
Like you, I didn’t feel I was getting through.
We have a saying back home: “Like peeing on stone to wear it out.”
lol–what will you do with all your free time, now that you don’t have to waste it?
Please keep in touch.
Best
Ty
nakhone
Ty Nolan’s 2nd Email:
Oh, sure sweetie–I had actually shared that a while back when the “flame wars” were starting on Queerty, every time the topic of “people of color and people of non-color (as one of my colleague, a white guy from the south, used to say…and he wasn’t being ironic or sarcastic…which rather sums up a lot of the Queerty posts) interacting within the GLBTQ community came up. I’m sure my comment was buried in the hundreds of posts on the threads. I never noticed a response to it.
My SigO at the time (on and off relationship for well over a decade…currently on again) told me he wanted to experience the MM, and when I got the call from the organizers, I told him to pack his bags. Frankly, I hadn’t planned on going before I was invited to speak. I had been Director of Training for a National CDC funded Minority AIDS project and had been working with a national people of color HIV advisory group. I coughed up the cash for our two plane tickets and booked a nice hotel in Georgetown.
After the crash and burn of my participation with the MM, my SigO’s favorite moment was holding my hand as we walked past the Rev. Fred Phelps and his family shaking their protest signs at all of us.
At one point on Queerty, I had added a comment that having served as a “Human Relations Specialist” dealing with racism and discrimination for Seattle Public Schools, I was taught that racism is a combination of power plus prejudice, and I felt the term “racist” was being used inappropriately in many cases. I was then attacked as out of touch with reality and living in the 1980’s, because of course, “people of color were racist.” I tried to respond in an educational manner, by linking current academic references to the subject, which was then dismissed out of hand.
To be frank, my response was similar to yours. I’ve spent literally years trying to make a difference. I’m now at the point of wondering if my investment is worth the effort. I’ve had a rather rude awakening to the fact that when I’ve worked for the NEA and school districts across the United States and Canada as a consultant and trainer, my audiences were required to be there, often because of infractions regarding various “isms.” My participation was predicated on the reality staff had screwed up to the extent they required someone like me (and I often wasn’t alone as a trainer) under threats of lawsuits and dismissals. People who post nasty comments on places like Queerty aren’t part of my “regular” audience.
When I first started reading Queerty on a regular basis, I was amazed at how snarky the staff writers were, let alone the readers in their comments. I think my regular reading of Dlisted.com dulled my sensitivity to the snark factor to the extent I just accepted it as part of Queerty’s reality. In related “conversations” with others in my WWW-social circle, I’ve wondered if the different social “mores” for interaction that have developed through reliance on the internet are responsible for this. However, watching the video clips of face to face interactions over the current health care reform makes me wonder if the lack of civil behavior is influenced by the internet or is reflecting a wider social failure. (In other conversations in the GLBTQ community, we “discussed” how different it is for younger people who didn’t grow up in a “gay bar” culture (or in the words of another commentator–“even in an adult bookstore environment”) where you were forced to develop some level of social skills–being instead shaped by the www, where there are potentially an unlimited number of possible partners/responders, and if you don’t like what the other person says, you just click off without any comment or explanation, and breeze on to another board/group/chatroom. It’s rather frightening to think what the logical outcome for this sort of behavior might be when people do interact face to face. I currently live in Arizona, where I was “blown away” (hopefully that is still a metaphor) by the fact the recent political debate here was not about being able to carry concealed weapons without a permit–that’s a given–but authorizing a customer’s right to carry a concealed weapon into a bar and/or restaurant where liquor is being served. Just so, I got to watch our local tv broadcasts interviewing citizens carrying rifles and guns openly to where President Obama was speaking.
Frankly, I’m also concerned with some responders (and certainly this isn’t limited to Queerty) who seem to only focus on attacking others, while offering little if any contribution to the thread or concerns, As a therapist, it makes me wonder about their personal lives and how they acquired these types of coping skills. “If I yell and bully you enough, I’ll eventually get my way, even if it means you just want to get rid of me as soon as possible.”
I was living in San Francisco when one of the bar owners in the Castro was picketed because of overt discrimination against Black customers.
Ah well, one of the things I used to tell my audiences–there’s an inverse correlation regarding economics and racism. When the local economy is good, overt racism tends to go down. When the local economy is poor, overt racism tends to rise. The economy has tanked. Guess I shouldn’t be too surprised at the level of racism…
Smooches–
Ty
nakhone
The National Equality March’s co-chair, Robin McGehee’s email to me.
Robin Equality McGehee October 5 at 1:17am
“Hey – we voted to allow both the Winner and runner-up speak at the March and the winner and runner-up sing at the March – thought you’d like to know that Mario is going to have his day to impress the masses – I am SOOOO excited.”
nakhone
All – I want to set the record straight that I NOW SUPPORT the National Equality March as a result of the co-organizers decision to allow Mario Nguyen to speak at the March. Now, if only I can hitch a ride across the country or if a generous soul would donate a plane ticket so I can go. I’m a poor screenwriter-turned-activist struggling to pay my bills. :=)
Chitown Kev
@Matthew Viator- There’s nothing cheap about Wagnerian drama.
mark
I did read plenty of rude nasty putrid posts which reinforce why LGBTs of Color feel excluded, feel demeaned, and feel taken for granted.
Either we fix our own community to have EVERYONE with seats at the table when decisions are being made, seats they have EARNED.
Or we are gonna hear a lot more people saying, “F*CK IT!” on their way out the door.
dontblamemeivotedforhillary
This is the Portal where Queerty was sucked into the Vortex of Oblivion. No sponsors want to be associated with racism and gay-baiting homophobia. It’s like Hallowed ground of the Internet – the first GAY IMPLOSION! Queerty is the Enron of Gay Branding! A bad move for a site that’s rumored to be up for sale!
I know, I’m banned again!
sam
Hi Nakhone
I am an gay south asian and live in canada. A lot of people assume that Canada is different than the States. however I must tell u that racisim is rampant here probably more within the gay community.
The comments by many of the witches is just shocking. I work with a volunteer ministry with pedophilles in canada in a and was shocked when i came to know that the pedophilles had complained earlier when an asian perosn became a volutneer!!!! Vomit Vomit Vomit. All this only points to the extent of the problem.
I salute your courage in refusing to be part of the racist white agenda which is being potrayed as a gay agenda. it took courageous people to end slavery and apartheid and consciousness that racisim is an evil is the first step towards ending race phobia. People have been ignoring your comments simply because they want to continue to discriminate against gay people of colour and pretend that its okay.oh, and also accuse us of being responsible for the abuse!
“I don’t call myself a white supremacist.I’m a civil rights activist concerned about European-American rights.”
[Statement by White Supremacist, David Duke]
Just because white gays have started calling themselves civil right activist doesn’t mean that they are or that they have given up their white supremacy attitudes or agenda.
I think it is time that coloured gays start a gay rights movement which actively fights against homophobia and white supremacy both within and outside of the community.
Brian
Homophobia and racism are not related issues, because they can be directed at one person who is both gay and asian, or gay and black, etc. They are separate issues. Gay activists are united by a common concern, homosexuality. Racism is not a common concern. True, many gay activists white and non-white don’t feel racism is the problem in their life that needs addressing. Racial minorities have legal protections and rights to serve and to marry, for example.
What is really bothering Nakone, is that he feels he and gay people of color are of a higher status than white gays. He may not identify with white gays in a social or organizational setting. When he is around whites, his own racial feelings kick in, and he craves be recognized as an asian, and more worthy of rights activism in general. Because the white gays are white, he feels, their lives are better, and their suffering is less. So he resents the idea that he is equal to the white gays – he feels he should have additional attention. In other words, Nakone is a brat, who demands other people should engage in activism that he has assumed. I heard of a black president of a gay rights organization who constantly wanted more attention on the gay people of color. But the racism is their own racism. When she resigned, she wrote in a letter that the only reason she joined the organization was to help “her people.” She simply wanted people of color to have a greater status in the organization, than the people who were merely gay.
I thing people and organizations should be permitted to be activists on issues that are important to them. It is wrong to call them racists. They are not motivated by racism, but rather are motivated by the gay issue, and may want to keep the focus on that issue.
Chitown Kev
@Brian
Dude, do you know that I could really lob the rhetorical equivalent of 10 Death Stars at you.
But I won’t…assuming that you are the same Brian.
Like ignorant-ass black homophobes you don’t see or understand the linkages between racism, sexism, and homophobia.
There is a reason, after all, that the Mormon Church campaigned against the ERA in the 70’s and considered black people to have incomplete souls and, were therefore, inherently inferior.
Adolf Hitler and the Nazis were also racists and sexists as well as homophobes.
http://kwelos.tripod.com/metaphysics/essentialism.htm
Brian
@ Chitown Kev:
“There is a reason, after all, that the Mormon Church campaigned against the ERA in the 70’s and considered black people to have incomplete souls and, were therefore, inherently inferior.”
Mormon is a religion, right?
Why did you leave that out of your first statement:
“Like ignorant-ass black homophobes you don’t see or understand the linkages between racism, sexism, and homophobia.”
Religion is the linkage. It is the only institution that teaches homosexuality is wrong. They did end their teachings about racism, slavery and women’s rights. Do you suppose we’re next?
Chitown Kev
@Brian
A religion founded, in part, on the incompleteness of black and Native American souls and the inherent superiority of the white man.
Just because they had a new revelation and no longer teah doesn’t mean that Mormons (or even the Church, itself) aren’t racist.
And can we discuss the historical racism of the Catholic Church. Pope Nazi is still at it
Why do you think American fundies (that are against us gays) fomenting homophobia in Africa?
Brian
@Chinatown Kev
Dude — I agree with you 100 percent. They are all related. But a gay rights activist who wants to only be a gay rights activist is not a racist. However, gay social service organizations — different from civil legal rights — have an obligation to open up to the idea that gay people of color may face more violence and discrimination, and need special attention. Just as an anecdote, it seems to me that trans people of color get bashed a lot. Whether it is a statistical thing, I don’t know.
Brian
We all get “bashed” by religion. They still teach that we’re wrong. Until that changes we can never be equal. Religion is made up of many denominations and I think we should marginalize the ones that continue to teach the belief that we’re wrong or less than human. It’s just I can’t tell which christians are which – good ones or bad ones.
Mormon and Baptist are easy – the others are a mixture of good and bad, I suppose. I believe the good ones would want to separate themselves from the bad ones. I would.
Gay Rights are Universal
This comment makes clear why this rant by this young man is a TERRIBLE place to start talking about the (obvious) racism in the gay community:
No. 292 · nakhone
All – I want to set the record straight that I NOW SUPPORT the National Equality March as a result of the co-organizers decision to allow Mario Nguyen to speak at the March. Now, if only I can hitch a ride across the country or if a generous soul would donate a plane ticket so I can go. I’m a poor screenwriter-turned-activist struggling to pay my bills. :=)
Posted: Oct 5, 2009 at 2:34 pm
(Is there anyone a little more stable who can get this conversation going?)
bavb
Having participated in the very first Gay Rights March on Washington D.C. in the 80s and speaking from personal experience having lived in Washington D.C. in the 80s, San Francisco in the 90s and NYC in the 00s, I have learned that gay white males are, guess what? White!!! “GWM ISO GWM”, ring a bell?
And as is typical many white gays remain willfully ignorant of their racism, misogyny, and internalized heterosexism ( “No Fats, No Fems!” – hatred of effeminacy).
Although much has changed and amazing things have happened since I graduated from high school in 1984, things that i never thought would happen, some things never change.
Calling the racist segment of the gay community on their racism on a blog is a pointless exercise, like all racists, they celebrate it. such is life…
Jerry Pritikin
I was one of the 5 finalist in the idol contest… and i believe
Sam Sussman’s winning video was just that. What he had to say was that equal rights means just that… and he was adamant that no one has more or less rights. He spoke against DADT.and for gay marriage. This weekend, I was taking a bus from Chicago to the National Equal Rights March, but the bus I was on broke down. I never made it. Mr. Sussman had requested… and I was looking forward to meeting him. I was to be part of a mini-doc that was going to follow me around and it wasto highlight the speech I would of gave… had I won. I am putting here with this post.
Thanks to television, I have witnessed a lot of history in the making — and often that history came “OUT” of Washington, D.C!
One of those historic events was the inaugural address of a young President, John F. Kennedy, back in 1961. He was the first Roman Catholic ever elected President! This was something I had been told would never happen in myh lifetime — I was then 24 years old.
Among his many ideas and challenges was his statement, “Ask not what your country can do for you — as what you can do for your country.” Another phrase caught my attention and I thought it was aimed directly at me when he said, “The torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans” — this was made clear after 8 years of the presidency of Dwight D. Eisenhower. In another speech, he talked about landing of a man on the moon and returning him and his team safely back to earth by the end of the 1960s — truly an event that, when promised, seemed a million light years away!
But there is a great gap between dreams and reality — I began the 1970s in San Francisco a year after JFK’s prediction of a man on the moon. Even with this stunning prediction of space conquest, it seemed that my dreams as a gay man were even farther away than the sun!!
The only exercise I had back then, was walking from one gay bar to another — and hoping I would not be arrested! There were laws on the books of many cities saying that it was unlawful for two adults of the same sex to hold hands, dance, or kiss each other in public. And if these things happened, patrons would be arrested and the gay bars raided or have their licenses taken away.
By the mid 70s, changes began to happen: we had gay newspapers and magazines; there were gay-sponsored softball leagues and a new kind of sport: gay politics! A transplanted New Yorker named Harvey Milk, began to wake up our senses and pride. He spoke about coming “OUT” of our closets and talked about gay rights. Yet, at the same time,there were still right-wing bigots who were trying equally hard to get us back into our closets, and have the doors sealed shut. They even tried to get new laws passed which would ban gays from public teaching jobs. Once Harvey was elected as the first openly gay politician in the country in 1977, many cities had “Pride Parades” and a few token rights were granted. However, the politics of assassination which took John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King and Robert F. Kennedy on a national scale also found its way into San Francisco when Harvey Milk and Mayor George Moscone were gunned down by a hate monger, Dan White. I knew them both as friends but they did not live to see the fulfillment of all the changes they had started.
Since that time, there has been progress in the field of Gay Rights– however, often at a snail’s during the past 30 years. In recent time, especially after the release of the Award-winning movie,”Milk”, which introduced Harvey, and that era of gay rights to millions of people, young and old, gay and straight, here in America and around the world.
I marvel at some of the many instances of progress made here in Washington…after 8 years of “Bush”, we now have a new young black president — again something that was not supposed to happen in my lifetime– and I am now 72 years of age!
Once again, I am getting the feeling that the “torch” is passing to a new generation of gay and straight equal rights fighters in America — there’s good news coming OUT OF WASHINGTON, D.C. However, this time, I am going to be there(before the bus broke down)… to witness the passing of the torch — and I will be accompanied by thousands and thousands of gay AND straight Americans from small towns and large cities, from all across this country. Today, October 11, 2009, it is my hope that they will bring us equal rights for all my lifetime, and yours, EQUAL RIGHTS AND JUSTICE FOR ALL AMERICANS!
My fellow gay Americans, this is OUR country,too.
Old Timer
I want to set the record straight that I NOW SUPPORT the National Equality March as a result of the co-organizers decision to allow Mario Nguyen to speak at the March.
So that’s what this little tantrum was about. Wow.
By the way, the Equality march was a joke at a bunch of different levels, starting with the fact that they drew no more than about 20,000 people and probably less.
phil reese
Ha ha! Sour grapes, old timer! Even the most conservative estimates in the Mainstream media put the numbers over 100000–and I can tell you that from the stage, I was able to easily see how far back the crowd went–and it went way beyond 3rd street (at least until Lady Gaga spoke) which traditionally means over 250000. Having been there, and seen it, I agree with most of the reports of 350000. 500000 seems a bit much, but 20000 sounds either incredibly ignorant, or incredibly catty.
Z Zing
The label that this article was nothing more than a tantrum speaks to the delusions suffered by gay men at large.
It is serious as it is symptomatic of the gross and extended lack of dignity and self-esteem rampant throughout the so-called community. And the worst part about it is that if WE can’t treat each other like the human beings we are, what fucken hope do we have of garnering any rights from the general majority?
And you idiotic Mary’s running around with your eugenically honed hatred thinking this is a non-issue – of FAG please!
I am soo over is as well … and don’t blame myself in the least.
VforVendetta
Nakhone Keodara can kiss my ass! He’ll probably blame it on just getting sober or some dumb shit like that wehre he absolves himself of any blame for his actions. Which is typical of a lot of newbie 12 steppers that I know.
Guy Fawkes
Nakone looks pretty white to me.
Misty
@Anonymous: It may be that, but it hasn’t been represented that way.
Misty
@jason: If the gay community can bitch about straight people, so can POC bitch about white people. It’s not putting it on all whites, (gay or straight), or all gays (white and/or POC) in the same park, but it’s talking about what SOME straights and SOME whites have done.