Plenty of religious folk understand the Bible as what it really is — an allegorical product of a different era used to contextualize this wacky world of ours and implement some reason into the chaos.
And then there are the people who think of it as the infallible and eternal word from high above. They like to pick out specific phrases as cultural weaponry to prove society’s wrongdoings.
You know the type. They say gay marriage is wrong because the Bible tells us so.
Related Post: Catholic schoolboy asked to defend church’s morals, turns in 127-page “Gay Marriage is Fabulous” paper instead
They might do well to follow this simple flowchart to remember some other words of wisdom from God’s best seller:
Related: “Is That Guy Gay?” Follow This Handy Flow Chart To The Answer
Except for this in the New Testament:
Romans 1:27 New International Version
“In the same way, their males also abandoned their natural sexual function toward females and burned with lust toward one another. Males committed indecent acts with males, and received within themselves the appropriate penalty for their perversion. ”
ð??? devils Advocate
David De Block
@Ron Parsons: That’s Paul not Jesus. And “homosexuality” in Paul’s time was understood completely different from what we understand as attraction to the same sex. Today it’s about love, egalitarianism, and a desire to find a life partner that one can share their whole life with. (At least in an ideal setting.)
Its hard to argue with idiots who beleive in fairy tales… Talking snakes and the earth is 2000 yr old. Come on… Smh ð???
Love this! Thank you for posting!
Need a PDF file of this chart? Let’s not be lazy Queerty on this one!
OOOOOOOO, Baby! I love it! (From a former Baptist minister who converted to Christianity!).
@Ron Parsons: The bible has been revised so many times over. It never actually said that.
They need not range so far. Leviticus 20:9 clearly states that god loving straight people have to kill their children the first time the kid says a dirty word to them.
Love that. Felt like saying “ON YOUR FACE” to all those bigots
Let’s not let off the homophobes that are not religious.. and there are many out there that hate without practising/believing in any religion.
@Dan Elh: Those types of haters really don’t even have justification. The bible thumpers use a weak justification and say it is the bible. Those types of haters have nothing to fall back on.
@Ron Parsons: WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP
You for got to mention NO MORE MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL!!! The ball is pig carcass skin…
Leviticus 11:7-8New International Version (NIV)
7) And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.
@Ron Parsons: Jesus is only quoted in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, never in Romans or anywhere else. Jesus never utters a single work reverencing homosexuality. Not one single time.
@KL: “word referencing” that is
Shawn Ryan Yealick
Seriously speaking, people delusional enough to believe in imaginary beings should not be preaching about what is right and wrong.
So in other words, that Gold Cross they wear has to come off?
Unfortunately, this chart has some fundamental flaws that any bible-type person will call out immediately. The good part is that “can’t pick and choose” covers pretty much anything, plus dozens of replacement verses could replace the flawed pieces in a cut-and-past minute.
One of the strongest arguments I have ever come up with to answer the biblical literalists is that Christians are only about 30% of the world’s population. That means that more than two-thirds of all people on the planet are sure they’re wrong about God and the afterlife. Now, that doesn’t necessarily make Christians wrong, but it should make them wonder a bit and, maybe, stutter-step once or twice before running off to condemn anyone who doesn’t agree with them.
you do relieze that the bible has been rewritten about a million times to serve whoever needs, but also the fact that, Where does the Hate Really stop? I mean I get that your beliefs are very opposing to what the bible, or religion in this case. So I ask the Question Why can’t we just get along.
Actually, a lot of the things in the book of Leviticus that shock us are no longer rules. Those were standards set for biblical times. The point of a lot of those passages are to show just how many hoops you had to jump through to be saved- and how much better life would be thanks to Jesus’ sacrifice. So things like eating pork (which, by the way, in Acts 10, God tells Peter that everyone is free to eat them) and such are completely fine now, because it was covered by the blood of Christ.
HOWEVER- things thing homosexuality that are again condemned later in the bible (Romans 1:26-28, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.) are still biblically wrong. The bible DOES say homosexuality is wrong, you just have to read it.
Before deciding you know everything about a religion, you should really read the paperwork.
@Ali: So which is it? The bible let’s us wear mixed fabrics cause some dude dies on a cross but it’s still wrong to be homosexual? Your argument isn’t holding much water. Just like that stupid fantasy book. Especially when we look and see that Paul wrote those books, and can’t speak on J man’s behalf. So calm down sparky, you’re wrong, but yea, I bet any further talk will just be like speaking to a brick wall.
Firstly I want to apologise on behalf of the church for anything that we may have said that is harmful or offensive to you. As a Christian Jesus commanded us that the most important commandments were to love God with all our hearts and mind and then to love your neighbour as yourself, this doesn’t mean we love everyone that has the same opinion as us, no, it is to love everyone unconditionally as God loved us. So when I read this it actually made me upset because it shows that what you have experienced from the church is not unconditional love but judgement, so again on behalf of the church I’m sorry.
I’m sorry if we’ve been judging you because ultimately we’re all sinners, not one person (except Jesus) can say to anyone else that they are better than them, it is just not possible because we are all so flawed (this is shown in Romans 3:23- for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) and instead as a church we should be so non-judgemental as we should understand this so well. I’m telling you these things because I want to redefine Christianity to you, it’s often portrayed as a hate community where people don’t get there facts right before jumping to conclusions. However what Jesus shows Christianity to be is actually a community of love and spreading that love to everyone.
In terms of what is and isn’t in the Bible about homosexuality then I would highly recommend the following link, it is run by Christians that are themselves homosexual but don’t practice homosexual sex for reasons you’ll find on the website. http://www.livingout.org/arent-we-just-picking-which-bits-of-the-old-testament-law-apply-today
So again I would just like to apologise, I don’t think that arguing is the best way to go about these kind of situations but actually listening to other people’s opinions and responding accordingly. And @demonfire99 I couldn’t agree more, why can’t we just get along?
@Ron Parsons: You’re doing it again! Do you realise who made them commit to homosexuality? That’s right; the one and only god of the NEW testament! One verse earlier, Romans 1:26: ”Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.”.
@Ron Parsons: Haven’t read the whole chapter? Because it lists a whole lot of sins that most likely cover things you do too. Which is followed in chapter 2 by:
“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.”
So in other words, by using chapter 1 of Romans to condemn homosexuals, you are condemning yourself according to chapter 2. Congrats for using the Bible to spread hate without actually having read it, definitively earn you a place in heaven that. *sarcasm*
And as David pointed out, homosexuality was understood differently then as it was commonly used in rituals of other religions and cults at the time where people who was otherwise not sexuality attracted to their same sex still engaged in those rituals. Lust is making sexual advances or doing sexual acts for the sole sake of sex and not for the sake of love. The translation is also kind woonky and the original text leaves a lot more room for debate.
@ShadowTani: THANK YOU! Obviously you have a better knowledge of the Bible and know how to present it, unlike most of the armchair theologians in these [email protected]Christian_girl: You also are spot on the mark. Thank YOU!
It’s refreshing to see that what was true 2000 years ago still is today – people get to interpreting the message of Jesus which was love, charity and forgiveness; they add their own agenda and f**k it all up.
@ornitorrinco: Yup, you about got that right! As an ordained Christian (former) Baptist minister, I had to give up “Baptist” and turn to Christianity! Then things looked much, much brighter!
@Joey Martina: we do not believe the earth is 2000 years old
ROFL, flow chart as written by someone who has obviously never read the bible and completely lacks any understanding of it.
@FlyboyC510: Actually… the flow chart was made exceedingly simple so even right wing christian Taliban extremists could figure out what Christ actually MEANT! So sorry you didn’t get the ‘obvious’ message!
Pastor Dak (Ordained (former) Baptist minister who converted to Christianity!).
I want to take the time to say thank you for your words. Just about a time time in my life when I seemed done with religion, your words made me rethink some things. Thank you.
Yes, and in Romans 1:29 it says
“29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. ”
So it looks like everyone who disobeys their parents, envies, or lies is also terrible.
The thing is that Paul is the one saying all of this, not Jesus. The amusing thing to me about the apostles is that Jesus seemed to spend quite a bit of his time correcting them in those three years he spent preaching. Yet we’re supposed to take what they say years after the fact to mean as much as what Jesus said. I don’t know, but I’ve never known someone who could take my words and not add their own spin to them.
Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. He did say a lot about divorce, about being greedy and selfish, and about judging others. I find it hard to believe that he was just so busy in those three years that he just forgot to mention homosexuality which, if most right wing Christians are to be believed, is the worst sin ever.
@CrazyCat42: Thank you for your salient remarks! There seem to be people on this website are have theological training other than the religious extremists I’m so used to hearing and vomiting over. It’s refreshing to hear people talk with wisdom, understanding, and education about the bashing verses of the Bible. Actually, they aren’t bashing verses at all! It’s what the American christian Taliban is best at using. Thank you all for extending a clearer vision and interpretation of what the Bible REALLY means! My hope is returning! 🙂 Pastor Dak!
Hahaha this was entertaining! Leviticus is quite complicated and I’m not going to get into why it is nearly irrelevant today. I mean, seriously, anyone could tear that down. I have done a lot of research on this topic to find a solid place on the controversial topic (controversial for Christians not society). First, I threw away everything I had learned about homosexuality from Church. Next I looked up every Bible verse about the sin, and every Bible verse said it was an abomination. I didn’t stop there, though. Next I focused on the New Testament and what Jesus said (not specifically about homosexuality). Jesus said that the top two most important was love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and mind, and love your neighbor add yourself. When he says “neighbor” he means the people around you, and if the people around you are homosexuals, then you love them the same as yourself. That all wasn’t enough to make a conclusion in my book. I then went in Romans and found a verse that said that if you support a sin (any sin, including homosexuality, murder, eating bacon jk) you deserve to die as well.
My conclusion is that, yes it is a sin, but we cannot hate them, however, we cannot support their actions.
If God would have been okay with gay marriage, he would have made Adam a husband, not a wife. However that not what happened. Does that mean that he doesn’t love gays? Or Bisexuals? No! Of course not.
I’ve got it…..Those who are determined to believe lgbtq are destined for da#nation just get it right and ask the almighty if you have it right to cast judgment and anger that is supposedly came from His word and forgetting a familiar passage…for God so loved the world…..I don’t want to sound as I’m mocking anything…I just don’t understand how me loving a man is so hate worthy and will spiral my country down the tubes
@ASC Thank you
I am a Christian, I do not support Gay marriage. But that doesn’t mean I do not hate them, or judge them, that’s not what we as people are called to do. We are called to love one another.
I would recommend people read Matthew 19. It is a great chapter. It talks about what Jesus said when he was asked about marriage
Fled that is honest. However many people sadly hide their lack of simple courtesy . They don’t believe in love one another..
@Ali: @Ali: well.. You haven’t rebutted the other examples… so the point remains valid. I’ll add a few examples:
Mathew 29: “So if your eye—even your good eye—causes you to lust, gouge it out and throw it away.” I doubt many christians gouge out their eyeballs.. this sin seems to be ok..
Mathew 30: “And if your hand—even your stronger hand—causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.” Masturbation is described as lustfull self abuse in the bible… so… All christian men should cut off their hands… except that this sin is ok too…
Luke 16: (I’ll paraphrase here. I’m sick of cut and paste) “Divorce is adultery.. Remarriage is adultery. . Marrying a divorced woman is ALSO adultery” holy crap! Adultery is a big one… But That sin’s ok too. It even repeats this in Mathew 34..
1 corinthians 7:2: premarital sex is a sin… but many, if not most christians do it anyway. .. Another sin that’s ok.
1 corinthians 7:4 Says that it’s ok to rape your spouse. (Look it up.)
Your claim that certain laws are conveniently obsolete is another “ain’t true” in mathew 5:17-20 it states “Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven”…
So, your “repealed” laws explanation is bullsht. You can’t pick and choose.
@Dakotahgeo: lol! I can’t help but laugh at the irony in your statement. Do you cherry pick the bible verses you want to follow as you claim others do? Then I might point you to 1 Corinthians 13 after your vitriolic statement. BTW, no one is bamboozled by your claim to be a former Babtist pastor so you can take the sheep skin off.
@FlyboyC510: Your comment noted… dismissed! And you have standing to criticize? Mehhhhhh… not too much!
Not necessarily about reading the paperwork, so much as your interpretation of it. People just need to quit judging and remember that’s God’s job, not ours, no matter what we believe. Time for everyone to worry about their own planks instead of someone else’s speck of dust. God made us all in His image, which, if you ask me, means we can love and forgive, not that we are perfect, by any means. Nobody is superior to anyone because of who they love, their gender, or their race. “Christians” that just don’t get it, kindly join us in the current millennium. The rest of us are feeling annoyed how bad you’re making the ones who actually love everyone and act as Jesus would have wanted look really bad. I’m tired of people assuming that, because we believe in the same God, we all dish out the same level of judgment. Naw, bruh, I believe in God, AND I believe in loving my neighbor
neighbor, because if God made all living things, and if that makes all things special and loved, who in the world am I to say otherwise. Quit using my religion to hate – it’s about LOVE!
@CourtKeepItReal: Thank you, Sir! You have indeed spoken truisms. We need to understand your lesson to get our own selves under control. However, we’d be a lot better off, if the conservative extremists’ demonic bugs wouldn’t try to get under our skin/bark… it kills both the tree and humans! 😉 Blessings! Pastor Dak!
Leviticus was a chapter in the bible that covered the religious cleanliness laws of Judaism. It was the Jewish health code laws in biblical times; both physical and spiritual. It is in the Old Testament due to Christ’s revocation and (if you want to see it that way, if not….sue me later!) renouncement of these laws in the New Testament! But, Christ himself said NOTHING about homosexuality! And better yet, for those who really want to thump their bible and claim this, Christ also said he was the SON of God. And for those who really wanna get technical, why do we pray before a crucifix or an empty cross, when one of the commandments is: Thou shalt not create false idols? I can;t put the whole thing to memory, but this is one of the myriad of reasons why Muslims, and yes, Jews hate Christians! And the way some people act….I can’t blame them. Leave people be; and let them live! Who are you to judge????
@Edensmisfit23: MANY, MANY thanks! This is what being a true Christian is: Present/Represent Christ, then back off and let the Spirit take over. Only enter the conversation when invited. Blessings, peace! Pastor Dak!
@KL: @KL: You do know that footballs are made of leather and not pigskin, right?
@Farooq: I don’t know where YOU get your information but footballs ARE made out of pigskin leather. That’s why they call it pigskin! I’m not even a sportsperson and I know that.
BTW, how are Hooper and Frank?
@Giancarlo85: Interesting take. What is your source of authority for your view?
@Joey Martina: Exactly! What is your source of authority for your beliefs?
@Giancarlo85: Ouch. What is your source of authority for your views?
@Benjamin N.: Interesting. But would you say there is a difference between releasing them to follow their desires and whatever consequences follow and actually making them commit to a course of action?
Jesus did say this: “But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh.” Mark 10:6-8
@leahnola: Sorry Leahnola, Paul was an Apostle, not a disciple… he didn’t know Jesus because there was approximately 90-120 years between their existence. Touche!
These days, footballs are typically made from cowhide or vulcanized rubber, making their nickname “pigskins” somewhat ironic. Football fans often perpetuate the idea that footballs used to be made of pigskin, which is how they got their nickname, but it turns out this isn’t the case.
Glad that it seems like people are staying relatively cordial in discussion of this topic. I think it’s a limited forum though, because people are offering one brief responses, each of which uses loaded terms, and unstated premises that i don’t think we’re all operating on. First, i’ll say I’m ‘Christian’ (another loaded term, that i use for convenience sake), and that i believe in the bible (another loaded statement, which i won’t get into).
>For proponents of this chart, i’d encourage you to read the bible before concluding this is a bullet proof argument. It is clear that with the exception of maybe 1 or two of you, many of you have not. I don’t say that as an attack.. just simply stating it’s pretty apparent. I say this just so you are well informed before spouting this to one who is better versed, because you won’t convince them, you’ll actually just look really ignorant, so i am actually recommending this so that you can save face.
For those who HAVE read it, i think a problem that we ALL have in these discussions is conflating the term “marriage” as a God-created union, vs. a societal institution. I think there is a big difference. regarding the former, i’d say that it shows a misunderstanding of what christians believe of the interplay between the old and new testament. If you don’t believe in it, that’s fine i’m not asking you to. I’m simply say if you don’t at least understand that, and that christians believe it, it probably won’t make much sense to you why christians would cite the old testament. Again, once you understand that, then i’d say we just agree to disagree. I watched a debate on TV once, and it was painful… not because one side was beating the other, but because each party’s response made no sense, because it was all based on premises that the other person didn’t accept. I point this out just so we can all be clear: our disagreement is on the BIBLE, not on “gay marriage.” I think we all tend to create unnecessary arguments when focusing on microarguments witout appreciating it’s just a fundamental difference in belief systems as a whole.
Regarding “marriage as a societal institution….
>for christians, i would say you need to understand the difference as well. Quite frankly, i’m not sure there IS a good argument against gay marriage, societally. The main argument i’ve heard against it is “well the Bible is against it”, to which the easy response is “yes, but whether we like it or not, the country is run on the constitution, not on the bible”. From there, it usually goes “yes, but we have a responsibility to keep society from deteriorating.” Yes, that is true, but i have a few responses to that: (1) does that mean we have to legislate against it? if so, there’s ALOT of legislation that christians currently endorse that you could probably make a biblical argument against, (2) similar to my response to those who are indifferent to scripture.. is the issue really gay marriage? or is it their lack of belief in God as sovereign and loving? If you really believe it’s the former, then i don’t really know what to say.
Advice to ALL (including myself) – always keep searching, accept that you don’t know everything, which naturally lends itself to the very distinct possibility that not everything you think makes sense in the four corners of your head is 100% accurate (nonono… don’t fist pump thinking about someone else… that is aimed at YOU individually…)
I’m in favor of marriage equality, but lets talk Bible here for a sec, because this flow chart suuuuuuucckkkssss. *Puts on Bible reading hat* *Puts on long internet post socks*
—–(The eating of pork, shrimp, etc)——
13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
Though Judaism still practices a cleaning practice for certain foods, Christians do not.
—–(Permanent marks on skin and tattooing)—–
28 “Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD…”
This is the only passage that addresses tattoos of any sort. There is no scripture in the new testament that addresses the subject, and at best, the practice of tattooing is disputed. Tattoos of this time were often used to mourn the dead or celebrate pagan gods, where it would make sense why the Lord specifies, “…cut your bodies for the dead….” Should one question the Christian nature of getting a tattoo, it is best to think, “Is this something I am doing through the love and glory of God.”
—–(Wearing of Jewelry, hairstyles, trends, etc)—–
3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight.
This really shouldn’t need much explanation. This passage in Peter doesn’t forbid the wearing of jewelry (or wedding rings as mentioned). It is merely a mention that beauty is something to be found within one’s heart, mind and soul. Or in today’s modern terms, “Beauty is what’s on the inside; not what’s on the outside.”
9 “…Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[a] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
[1 Corinthians 7:15-17]
15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16 How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
In short, yeah, Divorce is most likely not the Christian way to deal with a marriage in troubled waters. However, in the latter two, “exception clauses,” it shows that few situations may permit such action. Once again, a disputed topic that should be handled with deep thought and through much prayer.
These types of arguments tend to hurt the overall thought process the most because they aren’t saying that marriage equality should be discussed intelligently.
The defense is essentially saying, “Yes, gay marriage is bad, but you do lots of other bad stuff so why does it matter.”
If one is to argue the Christian nature of an event or action, they should discuss it in terms of its exact interpretation and guidance from the Bible. Spouting off random things they heard from an atheist podcast that they don’t understand makes them JUST AS BAD as the Christians who believe we should hate and discriminate those who they believe to be against biblical teachings.
The first thing you learn in critical thinking is that the lack of something being mentioned does not validate a position, so you lost credibility in the first box. Plus the fact that in several places in scripture it specifically says God does not condone it, so why would He create gay people against His own creation?
He condemns all sins, but also forgives all sins. None of us like having to face the reality of our own sins.
@Ron Parsons: Ummm, except that’s ROMANS. Paul stuff. J-man never knew Paul. Romans is based on letters he wrote to the Romans (“Dear Romans: How are you? I am fine. How is the weather in Rome? The weather here is fine…”). He was just rephrasing the Torah, and was not stating what the J-man said.
“Yes” – Jesus was gay. The end.
@Farooq: Where is your evidence, troll? You seem to question everybody but you can back up anything you say. My statements are based on facts. The bible has been edited by numerous sources, including King James.
There are many arguments for homosexuality but the Bible is not one of them. If you want sketchy justification of at least female homosexuality in a religiously revered text, try the Qur’an which doesn’t appear to mention it. Jesus said clearly that a man is to be united with his wife (Matthew 19:5, quoting Genesis 2:24) he is not recorded as having mentioned homosexuality specifically while he was alive as he had only three years of ministry and told people only the key points, knowing that the time would come when things spoken of figuratively would be made plain (John 16:25), the disciples, too, couldn’t record everything he said as it was too much (John 21:25) and it had already been spoken of in the Old Testament so apart from pointing out that it was not about committing the actual sin but the heart with which you commit it as he spoke of regarding murder and lust (Matthew 5) (and thereby we can understand that it is not that God has randomly decided homosexuality is a sin but that the unnatural unity of a brain without its counterpart is the fundamental cause of all the external problems which might occur) (but that’s for another argument). Just like parents might explain later to their kids that they told them there was a bogeyman so they would go to bed on time but they don’t bother restating what they said about crossing roads because that truth doesn’t need further explanation. He did however speak of these things after he died. Luke records in Acts 9:3-5 that Paul talked to the resurrected Jesus. It is logical then that as Paul says, he did not write the letters on his own but received them in revelation from Jesus (Galatians 1:12). Therefore in passages such as Romans 1:26-27, Jesus told Paul that he condemned homosexuality as sin and Paul (or actually Tertullus, Paul’s scribe) wrote it down. Peter, too, said that Paul’s words were scripture and should not be misinterpreted as even he had difficulty understanding what Paul said (2 Peter 3:16). This was because Paul saw many revelations and visions and went to heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-3) and heard from Jesus’ spirit. If it is still too much to accept that Paul received Jesus’ words, think about Moses who wrote Leviticus which many people are abusing by not looking at the NT which explains it. It was God who is spirit who gave those words to Moses just as it was Jesus who is a resurrected spirit who gave those words to Paul. If you are still determined to discredit Paul’s testimony which explains what Leviticus was saying about homosexuality then you are no longer attacking Christianity anyway. The entire point of Christianity is the rapture and Paul was the only one to write about it. Sorry for the exceedingly long post but I want to make it perfectly clear: there may be many arguments for homosexuality but the Bible is not one of them.
@Ron Parsons: So I’m gonna jump in cause it’s fun 🙂
In the King James version the passage reads:
“And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”
Now, correct me, but that’s cryptic as all buggery… as far as we know it could be referring the lust towards the men and women as being burned… also ‘men with men working that which is unseemly’ could be as simple as referring to criminal acts…
If you want a more clear cut verse try Leviticus 20:13 :
‘If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.’
That’s pretty self explanatory (although you could argue that because it only says lieth it could quite easily mean guys who share bunk beds are committing an abomination, if it read indecent different story)
But the thing I love most about Leviticus is that it’s prefaced with:
1. And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2. Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that… (etc.)
So basically if you can trace no lineage to Israel you’re in the clear!! :3
Seriously? Jesus never mentions gay marriage? Guess none of you ever READ THE BIBLE!!!!!!
“And he [that would be Jesus] answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?” ~ Matthew 19:4-5
Notice MAN AND WOMAN, “FOR THIS CAUSE” [man and woman] and he, Jesus, should know, as it was He who created them!!!
Please, do your homework before posting.
Stop being such hating Christianaphobes!!!
@Palerider1957: Who the hell are YOU to judge?? And, sorry, dumbfuck, the passage you quoted in the NT is also in the OT… that’s where it originated! As for intolerant bigoted anti-Christians, YOU don’t qualify! We’re talking Christians here. You are a christian, a charter member of the AcT (American christian Taliban!)! No wonder Christ is losing followers in droves! You christians in wolves’ clothing have left an indelible negative mark on society!
George M Melby, M. Div. Pastor/Chaplain
(Retired but still active!).
The main thing is, ALL of you, and mostly you homosexuals KNOW that homosexuality is a sin, you just refuse to acknowledge it because you don’t like it.
You can be homosexual if you wish, your choice, but stop forcing your choice on others. (And YES, homosexuality IS A CHOICE.)
It would also be nice as it is apparent that not one of you homosexuals know nothing about the Bible, or if you do, you know only how to twist it, knowing full well you are doing so.
It doesn’t matter here anyway, because ALL men WILL stand in front of Jesus at the Judgement seat. And there is only one outcome, and it isn’t the lies posted here by bigoted, intolerant, hateful, Christianaphobes..
@Palerider1957: Christianaphobes?????? Unnngh! Nerdy at best, idiotic at the worst!
Christians and other religious people are so gullible. They believe what they are told or read in the Bible, ignoring the fact that all the ideas and content of it were dreamed up by men, who said “God” inspired them to write it. That’s all the evidence they have for the veracity of it. In other words, it’s hearsay.
To base your whole life on what somebody else has told you is little short of madness. You have a brain and a power of perception. Use them!
And in Corinthians 6:9-10, where Paul was speaking to Christians:
“Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Christians are not condemning homosexuals, but warning them of the dangers of continuing in that harmful and sinful behavior. It is sad that publications like this are so biased without understanding. If God is not the moral and spiritual authority in your life, then who is? There is only one answer to that question.
@David De Block: Sorry, that is a cop out. It doesn’t matter what the motivation is, it is still homosexuality and the result is still the same – sexual immorality.
@Giancarlo85: Tell me about how many times it has been revised? That is news to me and I have been studying for over 40 years and have a degree in Biblical Studies…lol
@bamared2222: Ain’t that somethin’ else! I have a M.Div.,8 credits toward a Doctorate, and what you espouse is pure delusion and speculation! Degree in Bible Studies, my foot!
“I would recommend people read Matthew 19. It is a great chapter. It talks about what Jesus said when he was asked about marriage..”
Enough already! Why don’t you guys start a “Homoerotic Jesus” Blog for you gay “Christians” and cut/paste from your book of fairy tales there. No offense intended!
I am saddened to read some of the comments by fellow Christians. While I agree with freedom of speech and religion, we shouldn’t use that to put down anyone or verbally abuse each other. We should be lifting each other (So encourage each other and build each other up) 1 Thess 5:11.
I’m not ashamed of the Gospel, but I’m ashamed of the bible thumpers who jump at a chance to degrade people. I don’t agree with homosexuality, I do agree they are humans and deserve respect as so.
With all going on in the world today, it’s reasonable to say we should work together instead of against each other. I feel we can together help feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, cloth the needy and love the lonely. (Or am I just delusional thinking this can happen?)
I’m against gay marriage because I don’t think that children should live in some adult’s sex show… and you should be against it too for that same reason
@forgetmenow: I am so happy you are not gay… you are a bad enough example to follow. Perhaps that is your calling in life… to be an extremely poor example… in everything!
Seems the main topic here is sin. Yes the old testament says a lot about sin about right and wrong. But the law was not given for man to keep it. The law was given so that all the world would stand guilty before God and therefore see their need for a Savior. The sins of the whole world have been paid for by the sacrifice of Jesus Gods only son. Thru Adam we all became sinners by birth but thru Jesus perfect sacrifice we can all become righteous thru the new birth. That’s what Jesus told Nicodemus. Jesus said you must be born again. This new birth is a spiritual birth and just as all of us are born into sin under Adam we can all be Born again by believing that Jesus perfect sacrifice,his death,burial and resurrection we are born again spiritually. We can become a new creation on the inside. Until you have been born again you cannot even discern the Scriptures. So pointing fingers at Christians does not solve anyone’s problems. Each one of us is responsible for what we do with Jesus. Please understand that your sins have been paid for by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. What is important us whether you believe and receive Jesus or reject Jesus. All of us need Jesus and when you ask Jesus to come in to your heart then you become a child of God. When you sincerely do that then He will lead and guide you. He will speak to your heart when you are going down the wrong path. He loves us. God is not mad at us. Ask Jesus to come in to your heart and all if the comments here don’t matter because you will be a new creation.
I love this so much.
Religion is a sin
I still adore Jesus despite what religions or Christians say about my love life! Love one another and do not judge, these are direct words of the Holly Bible! Amen to that! â¤ï¸â¤ï¸â¤ï¸
Why does God or Jesus Christ has to interfere with my marriage when I am not religious and have no interest in getting to know him at all?
Jesus didn’t explicitly say “no gay marriage”. He did however say he was there to uphold the law (Matthew 5:7), which includes the laws from Deuteronomy and Leviticus. I’m so over people trying to justify a religion based on a bible they apparently don’t even read.
Nice try… but you have zero understanding of the Bible. Wow! :/
Why are people JUDGING each other on the marriage because I thought JESUS Is the one that judges you, I guess I don’t know about religion or the bible!!!!!.
Who ever made this doesn’t even have an elementary understanding of Christian theology.
Christians don’t follow levitical law because it was the procedural law used by Jewish high priests to offer up sacrifices in the Temple.
Christians don’t follow it because 1) we don’t offer up sacrifices to God, Christ was the ultimate sacrifice, he tore the vale. 2) even if we did the temple ergo the Holy of Holies was destroyed.
Christians follow the New Testament and the laws of Moses.
Let’s see how this works. Jesus didn’t say anything about gay marriage so it is ok. Jesus didn’t say anything about pedophilia, incest, beastiality, so they are ok.
Jesus did say something about gay marriage.
Well that was simple. I didn’t even know about the gold thing
Genesis 19:1-11, Leviticus 18:22, Judges 19:16-24, 1 Kings 14:24, 1 Kings 15:12,Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:8-10, Jude 7, and what JESUS said: Mark 10: 6-8
That’s a lot more than just the book of Leviticus for you unbelievers. If you try and say “But Levitius says not to eat bacon or whatever…” That’s in the Old Testament and those are old Testament rules called the “covenant’ for JEWS. Jesus came to be the NEW Covenant and those Jewish rules like “bacon” and “clothing” don’t apply today, especially when you’re not Jewish. But carry on hating Christians when you don’t know a thing about them or Jesus or God. I personally don’t care where any of you go when you die.
Battle is over. SO why are you still making noise about it?
Not religion – many accepts- and not all Christians because the Bible does not say that.
Not so fast on the wearing of Gold my PPL’s. Most people who have read the Bible have at least been mildly perplexed after reading 1 Timothy 2:9-10 and 1 Peter 3:3-4. These two portions of Scripture read as follows:
…in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works (1 Timothy 2:9-10).
Do not let your adornment be that outward adorning of arranging the hair, of wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel; but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God (1 Peter 3:3-4).
At first glance, these two passages seem to set down strict commandments that women should wear no gold jewelry, and should never braid their hair. However, when these verses are taken in their proper context, and are compared with other verses in the Bible, their seemingly strict prohibitions of gold and braids become more lenient in one sense, and ironically, more strict in another.
When the apostle Paul wrote to the young preacher Timothy, he gave the young man several instructions about how certain groups of people ought to conduct themselves in public worship assemblies. In 1 Timothy chapter 2:9, Paul offered some guidelines for how women ought to dress. Paul said that women should wear “modest” apparel. The Greek word for modest is kosmioi, which means “respectable, honorable, or modest” (Arndt, 1958, p. 445). This word basically entails all apparel that does not call undue attention to the wearer through show of flesh or through gaudiness. The type of apparel is defined by the phrase, “with propriety and moderation.” Then, Paul described the converse of “modest” by mentioning three things that many first-century women were using to draw undue attention to themselves: braided hair, gold, and costly clothing.
In the first century, many women were plaiting elaborate hair designs that would take hours to “construct” and weave. One writer, in describing such first-century hair designs, wrote:
Talk about high maintenance! During the late first century, the Flavian style of Julia, daughter of Titus fashioned the court with curls arranged on crescent-shaped wire frames. The back hair was divided into sections, braided, then curled. Sometimes the hair was coiled without braiding (see Roman…, 2002).
Apparently, some women were turning the worship assemblies into fashion shows, attempting to “one-up” their contemporaries with flashy, expensive clothes and costly gold jewelry. Instead of this gaudiness, Paul instructed the women to adorn themselves in that “which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.”
In this passage, we see a literary construction that is common in the Bible—the comparison and substitution of one less desirable thing for another more profitable thing. In this particular case, the gaudy clothes were to be rejected in favor of good works and modest clothes. Jesus used a similar construction in John 6:27, when He stated, “Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you…” At first glance, this statement from Jesus seems to be saying that a person should not work for physical food. However, we know that is not the intended meaning, because 2 Thessalonians 3:10 plainly says, “if anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.” What, then, was Jesus’ point? He simply was saying that spiritual food is more important than physical food, and as such, should be given a higher priority.
Another instance of a similar situation is found in 1 Corinthians 11:34. In this chapter, the apostle Paul had been reprimanding the Christians in Corinth for abusing the Lord’s Supper. The rich brethren were bringing lots of food and drink, and were eating their fill, while the poor brethren were not getting enough to eat. Paul explained to the Christians that the Lord’s Supper was not designed to be a feast to fill the belly, but a memorial to commemorate the death of the Lord. In verse 34, he wrote: “But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.” Once again, taken in its most literal sense, this verse would demand that every person who is hungry should eat at home—not in a restaurant, at a friend’s house, or outside. Of course, that was not Paul’s intention at all. He simply wanted the Christians to eat to fill their stomachs at some other time than during the memorial feast of the Lord’s Supper.
After considering these examples, let us now look back to Paul’s instruction to Timothy concerning women’s apparel. If we were to take the passage in its most literal reading, then women should not wear braided hair, any gold, or any costly clothing. However, how much would an article of clothing have to cost in order to be “costly?” Many of the clothes we wear in the United States would cost a person in a third world country an entire year’s salary (Jackson, 2000). Should our women come to worship in burlap sacks and cardboard flip-flops? To ask is to answer. In fact, in 1 Peter 3:3-4, the parallel passage to 1 Timothy 2:9-10, the actual Greek text omits the word “fine” before “apparel” so that it actually says that a woman’s beauty should not come from “putting on apparel.” Yet, taken in its most literal sense, this particular sentence would delight those of the nudist persuasion, and confound the most astute Christians.
Summing up the meaning of these two passages, we see that Paul and Peter were not forbidding a woman from wearing a golden wedding band or having her hair modestly braided. They were, however, instructing the women to concentrate on good works and a right attitude instead of trying to impress others with immodest clothes that were inappropriate or excessively gaudy.
Therefore, these verses are more lenient than their strictly literal sound, in the sense that they do not forbid all wearing of gold, clothes, or braiding of the hair. They are more stringent, however, in the fact that some things not specifically mentioned by the writers would be prohibited. For instance, a woman could not wear thousands of dollars worth of platinum jewelry, and then contend that the verses never mention platinum. Nor could a Christian woman strut into an assembly wearing multiple carats of diamonds worth tens of thousands of dollars, and argue that diamonds are not mentioned in the text. The verses echo the sentiment of Christ, when He scolded the Pharisees for cleansing “the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence” (Matthew 23:25).
[As an endnote, the modest-apparel criteria were not specifically addressed to the first-century men, because they apparently did not have a problem with this. However, in any situation where men might have a problem with such, the same rules certainly would apply to them as well.]
OOOOOOHHHH, my PPL’s… you are so clever to attack the Biblical view of Eating bacon and pork products… yet… Again, you lose. Here’s the thing…
A myriad of different views have been adopted to ascertain the rightness or wrongness of specific actions. Some have adopted the philosophy that if something feels good to them, then that thing is right for them. Others suggest that if animals engage in a certain activity, then such must be right for humans as well. In truth, however, there is only one way to know if an action or idea is right or wrong, and that is to compare it to the ultimate standard. If it can be proven that the Bible is God’s Word (and it can, see Thompson, 2003), then the Bible reveals the perfect mind of God and is the sole source of authority on which assessments of right and wrong should be based.
What, then, does the Bible say about eating pork? Is it wrong? This question naturally arises from reading the Old Testament, because it was wrong for Jews under the Law of Moses to eat pork. In Leviticus 11, God gave the Israelites a list of animals that were permissible to eat, but the text specifically labels swine (pork) as unclean and forbidden (vs. 7). Throughout the Old Testament, the act of eating swine’s flesh was viewed as an abomination to the Israelites—wrong and sinful (see Isaiah 66:17). One primary reason for this prohibition in the Old Testament against eating the meat of unclean animals, including pork, was to protect the Israelites from diseases, infections, and bacteria that were more commonly carried in scavenger animals such as vultures, catfish, and pigs (see Thompson, pp. 52-53).
The question does arise, however, if it was wrong for those under the Old Law of Moses, is it still wrong for those who are following God under the New Law of Christ? The straightforward answer to this question is a simple, “no.” It is not wrong to eat pork.
When Jesus Christ died, He nailed the Old Law to the cross (Colossians 2:14). The book of Hebrews explains that Christ made the Law of Moses obsolete and replaced it with the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13). Paul explained to Christians in Galatia that the Old Law was cast out and replaced by Christ’s New Law (Galatians 4:21-31). As a result, the regulations about clean and unclean foods were jettisoned, along with rules for animal sacrifice, ritual washings, annual feast days, Sabbath observance, and a host of other ceremonial trappings.
As evidence that the food regulations were abolished, the book of Acts includes an account in which the apostle Peter saw a heavenly vision of unclean animals being lowered from heaven. A voice from heaven said to Peter, “Rise, Peter, kill, and eat” (Acts 10:13). Peter responded that he did not eat unclean animals. The heavenly voice countered by saying, “What God has cleansed you must not call common” (10:15). In the immediate context, the vision was designed for Peter to understand that God was arranging for the Gospel to be preached to the Gentiles. But the interchange also manifests the fact that the regulations for clean and unclean animals had been altered so that animals that once were unclean to the Jew were now fit to eat.
In a passage that has a direct application to the eating of pork, Paul wrote to Timothy:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer (1 Timothy 4:1-5, emp. added).
Under the New Law of Christ, it is no longer wrong to eat animals such as pigs or catfish, since such regulations have been removed. Those who want to be accepted by God no longer have to offer up physical animal sacrifices, since Christ offered Himself on the cross as the ultimate, permanent sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 9:28).
When Christ died on the cross, His New Law went into effect (Hebrews 9:16-22). While it is true that some of the things in the Old Law, such as the prohibition to murder or lie, are repeated in the New Law, many regulations were not carried over. The only way to know what God expects of individuals under the New Law is to study the 27 books in the New Testament that contain this law. Ultimately, all people who have lived after Christ’s death on the cross until His Second Coming will be judged by this New Law (see John 12:48).
Attacking divorce… yep. Total sin – You got people there for SURE! Orrr… do you? For you see, Divorce is a one or two time sin. Not a sinning lifestyle. You get divorced once or twice and while it is still a sin, God will forgive, because he forgives all sin through the acceptance of Jesus Christ and his plan of salvation, meaning turning from a lifestyle of sin. He knows that in our sinful nature, we are bound to oops and sin occasionally. However when we CHOOSE a lifestyle of sin, in pride, saying “HA – WE GET TO GET MARRIED AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!” You are kinda wrong. You are choosing, according to the Bible, a LIFESTYLE of sin, not a one time sinful act. WE may not be able to do anything about it, but in the end, God’s going to have something to do about it. And unfortunately… well… your chances will have run out.
They pretend not to read the part that applys to them !!
Kate Nordstrom Larsen
people cherry pick the Bible and I don’t know how they justify that.
@David De Block:
Definition of Homosexuality: sexually attracted to members of one’s own sex
There’s no difference.
I always love how people who don’t know the bible twist it. Cody, Check out Romans 1:18. it was written by the Apostle Paul who wrote 2/3 of the New Testament You can enjoy the supreme courts decision but don’t dare to justifie it with the bible.
Byron Scott Jones
The problem is that religious people have never been big on logic.
What the chart may unknowingly be revealing is the truth of St.Paul: “For ALL have sinned and fall short…” Nothing more, nothing less.
The bible says that fornication is a sin, it doesnt specify homo or hetero, because it doesnt matter fornication is fornication. Homosexuality is not a word used in the original language of the bible. Sex between the same sexes is sin(Lev18:22&20:13, Rom1:26-28, 1Tim1:10, & 1Cor9:6); but it is the act of fornication that is sin. not attraction that is not a sin. Fornication is having sex outside of marriage. Jesus discusses marriage in Matthew 19:1-12 (he defines it specifically in verse 4 by quoting Genesis 2:24). So anyone having sex that is outside of HIS DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE is fornicating. So if a gay person is celibate and dedicates their life to God then they are not sinning, but if they are have sex even when married then they are fornicating because it doesn’t fit Jesus’s definition of marriage(Matt19:4). There is no excuse for living in sin without repentance because of Galatians 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Eating pork is bad because pigs are natures’ garbage disposal, they will eat anything and they reproduce fast so they are cheap to have and easy to raise. Fish without scales filter the water by absorbing mercury and such from the ocean. Carnivores eat other animals and in the energy cycle you get less energy from them compared to plants (100%), and herbivores (.1%). Scavengers eat decomposing things, and that is a bacteria hazard. There are actually scientific reasons unclean meats are sin. Under Mosaic law only clean meat were allowed. However after Christ the bible says that if the meat is cleansed and sanctified in prayer then it is clean, Christ gave us power through his name to pray for our foods.(1Tim4:3-5) I pray over my food, as 1Timothy4:5 says, so that it is clean.
Jesus said that he is Lord of the sabbath, and that the sabbath was made to meet the needs of man NOT man to meet the requirements of the sabbath (Mark2:23-28). We should worship God everyday, not just one day. Worshipping God should nit be limited to church, that is what a personal relationship is for, praying in the spirit and talking to Him everyday, makes your day better, and makes avoiding sin easier because WHEN YOU WALK IN THE SPIRIT YOU WONT FULFILL THE LUST OF THE FLESH(Gal 5:16).
LORD’s Name in Vain
That is when some one swears to God, saying God+damn (damn is short for damnation, so you are say “I call damnation upon God when you say that”) or make promises in Gods name that all false. Like in bible the example was someone would say “I promise you as surely as the Lord lives”(Jeremiah 5:2). So that means if they are lying then God is dead. By introducing people to God, they will no longer see Him as just a creator, but as the Father. Children should HONOR their parents (Ep6:2), so like wise they will learn to love and honor God as a father.
Does this apply to Mr. Graham……?
I’m not giving up bacon!!!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes flow charts are so much fun!
I’ve been using most of these on my Conservative friends for years….good points……”you have heard that it is an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth….but I say there is a new law…offer your tunic to anyone who asks…turn your cheek…” Etc. Jesus, one could argue, changed or clarified some of the laws based on God’s intentions. Or at least, how WE wrote them down.
The Bible says if your children misbehave, STONE THEM!! (I am a Christian) I think that some of the Bible is misinterpreted
Don’t condemn others because they see things different than you. You are irritated that your views are being condemned by others and are turning around and doing the same thing. Everyone needs to move on.
A few thoughts on the flow chart… I am seeking simply to be honest and fair with the Biblical text.
1) Jesus indeed did not explicitly mention homosexuality. But he never mentioned child abuse, beheadings, or wife beating. This is an argument from silence and is thus not a valid rhetorical method. However, it is understandable why this argument would be used – I would suggest the basic premise of the flow chart author is that the Bible does allow for gay relationships and marriage. I find it interesting that people often want the Bible’s affirmation. If it such an antiquated book, why not just dismiss it outright?
2) While Jesus did not mention homosexuality, we can certainly consider his teaching on sexuality. He certainly condemns adultery. If one reads Jesus’ teachings, rather than just news bytes, he is very clear that he did not come to abolish the moral law of God. In fact he goes further. He says that simply lusting after a woman is committing adultery in one’s heart. And when he teaches on marriage, he points back to Genesis and the one man / one woman model. No honest scholar can rightly conclude that Jesus, as a 1st century rabbi and based on his own teachings, in any way affirms gay marriage. Quite the contrary.
3) We then can consider Paul’s teachings. The argument is made in some comments that Paul is not Jesus. That’s very true. But who commissioned Paul to teach? It was Jesus. If indeed you want Jesus’ affirmation of gay marriage, let’s really listen to ALL of Jesus’ teachings. If indeed he is who he claimed to be, and what his disciples tell us about him, then Paul was authorized to teach by someone who rose from the dead. (If Jesus is not who he said he is, then he was clearly a delusional lunatic and the flow chart shouldn’t care what he had to say). When Paul teaches clearly that homosexuality remains a serious sin, he represents Jesus.
4) But then what about bacon? Or other sins? There are two kinds of sins here, again taking into account what the Bible teaches and not what people claim it teaches. There are prohibitions against behavior like eating bacon for example that are then removed in the New Testament. God was never against pork. But he was teaching people that there is, in his universe, clean things, and unclean things. Bacon was simply a teaching tool. When Jesus came, the prohibition is lifted. But what about other sins like adultery – sins that Christians commit. Those sins are still sins. Here’s the difference however. If someone commits adultery and does not repent (does not mourn his or her action and turn away from it), then they cannot rightly claim Christianity. Christianity is not about perfect people. It is about VERY imperfect people who are constantly repenting of their sins, actually turning away from them, and most importantly, looking to Christ to cover their sins through his sacrifice. Homosexuality is simply one sin among many that can be forgiven, and can be turned away from. That does not mean it is easy, or not a sacrifice on the part of that person. But it part of showing allegiance to Christ.
Now… you may wish to read the Bible and say “I don’t care, or I don’t believe what it says”. You are certainly free to do so. But I would ask that we not thoroughly misrepresent what the Bible teaches, and what the church has seen as the Bible teaching for 2,000 years. A flow chart is hardly a scholarly submission on the subject. My deep experience with Christianity is that it does not teach what the flow chart suggests. I invite you to do much more than a surface reading based on a flow chart, but rather actually investigate Christianity’s claims based on the Bible itself.
Thank you for allowing me to post.
Its reallllllllllly simple.
Be a good person(means sin the least possible).
And let God do the judging, cuz hate sounds like a sin!
Neither this Catholic or her orthodox Jewish friends are impressed with the amateur theology here.
@enness: And you understand, of course, that we could not care less? !
First of all you who are attacking the bible clearly lack discernment and prove sin is running rampant. I saw someone say its a fairy tale cause of a talking snake. lol. Moses wrote that and how was he suppose to describe satan without actually seeing him? its a metaphor, satan is like a snake or a serpent cause he is deceitful and uses trickery. you have to remember people wrote this thousands of years ago when they didnt have terms like we do now. secondly half of the scoffing attacks on a christian like the gold question, or any of the other ones are dead on, but you fail to look at the context of which they are written. you cannot look at one verse and pluck it out and use it as a way to cause a christian to look bad. you have to look at the whole book or at least the few chapters before and after. most of them were for certain individuals to follow, or for the Jews to follow to keep them right in Gods eyes. you all certainly have not read the bible, and certainly dont know how to read it or discern its message. your all scoffing like it said people will in the end times.
2 peter 3:3 says: Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers (MOCKERS) will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
@Eng77ine: Divorce isnt a sin. God has said that if the unbelieving spouse wants to leave then let them. Its a sin i believe if both are believers because of that union with Christ.
@David De Block: @sapper21:
In fact most of those old testament laws were for the jews and not gentiles. but the new testament states homosexuality is a sin and the bible clearly states in Gods words that its an abomination. God looked down and saw adam was lonely so he created eve and not another man.
@sapper21: ACCORDING TO PAUL!!! almost everything was sinful… not according to what Christ said regarding homosexuality— nothing!
Soooo tired of seeing this chart, EVERYWHERE!
Also whoever said Jesus never mentions homosexuality, know this, He did mention sexuality and His position of marriage and sexuality and this is what Jesus said…….“At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” (Matthew 19:4–6) Notice how it says NO ONE? that means even SCOTUS.No matter how gay you are your not unified as one, your still two no matter what piece of paper the government gives you
@sapper21: Fortunately… the Bible AND Jesus both tell us to respect the government that has been elected by the citizens as HIS own representatives! Whether YOU are happy with that decision matters not to any people but your own demented bible-verse-twisting agenda. So while the rest of our nation, Mexico AND Canada celebrate, we’ll gladly bestow upon you and yours, slightly used Kleenex from OUR tears of joy! Now go and rewrite and misinterpret your ‘bible’ some more!
Pastor George M Melby, M.Div.
Jesus also never explicitly forbade marrying children or toasters. In Mark 10 and Matthew 19 He described marriage as heterosexual and monogamous. _All_ sexual relations outside of this foundation are implicitly excluded.
But here’s the good news: He died because He loved homosexuals and wanted them to be free from the penalty of their sins. Not just sexual sins, but all sins. Ever taken the Good Person test? Google it.
@Dakotahgeo: Dakotahgeo check the book again. He did mention sexuality and His position of marriage and sexuality and this is what Jesus said…….“At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” (Matthew 19:4–6) Notice how it says NO ONE? that means even SCOTUS.No matter how gay you are your not unified as one, your still two no matter what piece of paper the government gives you
This was my first time seeing it.
Marie Fisher Dunn
ROTFLMAO!!! So hilarious… But it does make a very good point(s). LMAO!!! ð???
@Dakotahgeo: nothing? guess i proved you wrong then. silence is the best for admitting your wrong. guess you just googled that instead of actually having any biblical knowledge
@sapper21: On the contrary… you’re not worth any more of my, or anyone else’s, precious time. You sound a lot like the nut job, o.codone, and just as ignorant! You’re done here.
Chris- God has no desire to interfere with your marriage, nor does He desire for you to be “religious.” Like most patient parents, God simply continues to love you, whether you respond, or not. The choice has been and will always be; yours.
Alan David Smith
many laws are over turned both earthly and spiritually. atheist’s will throw out one side and Christian’s the other if it doesn’t go with their belief’s. recently a woman in her 50’s had kids. during a time when people often would die before 30. a teen bride wasn’t un-natural. it was essential. the battle over tattooes.go up a few verses and you’ll find that people used to scar themselves as a sign of mourning. this wasn’t about the case of having micky tattoed on your ankle. now we know that with pork. you cook it at higher temp’s for a shorter amount of time. you can make a case for anything if you work hard enough for it.
@Joey Martina: Agreed. Rather than persuading people to use a new or different interpretation of their “holy scriptures” we should be working harder to explain science and sound reasoning skills.
From a purely scientific point of view as a species if it can not reproduce and procreate it would die out. The survival of our existence depends upon a man and a woman producing offspring, with out this we would die out. Say what you will but it goes against the very nature of biology to do this, its a purely life style choice or a chemical imbalance just like having unnatural cravings or physiological issues. Until a man can have a child by natural means with another man same with a woman with another woman your so called argument is invalid and is nothing more than a person wanting to go against his very nature.
@Dwaynebutcher: Hmph! Do say. Whateva!
Would have been a witty meme to discriminate against a minority group(christians)if it was correct. Leviticus is the law for the Jews(unless it is your intention to discriminate against our Jewish friends! But I think the Nazis have done enough of that don’t you?) not for christians. Homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testament in Romans chapter one, thats where you should have started your flow chart from to be accurate, if it is your intention to discriminate against christians. But you would have to leave out all the eating bacon, pork, wearing jewellery, tattoos etc, because christianity is not under the Jewish law. A little bit of research would haved been advantagous to your flow chart. I hope this has helped you. Peace & love to all 🙂
Jeremy Jay Lee Austin-Skidmore
That’s all nice and good and all.
Unfortunately, it’s a nice and good LIE.
Enjoy your dictatorship… While it lasts.
@ASC: All that assumes that Paul knows and understands the nature of homosexuality. Since it’s understood nowadays to be an innate thing rather than a choice – and there is plenty of evidence for that – we have information he didn’t about the motives of the people who practice it, and therefore we can evaluate the sin differently. If Paul had known that men were not being ‘turned from women’ by the desire for more sex, but in fact loved men as straight men love women, then he probably would have recategorised them into ‘perverted promiscuous sinful gays’ and ‘good Christian gays’.
I don’t subscribe to any of this personally, because I am exactly the kind of God-rejecting deviant Paul is so heartily decrying in Romans, but it’s still a reasonable interpretation I reckon. Another one is that Paul’s getting over-enthusiastic about condemning the sinners because he’s frustrated they aren’t listening to him, since Jesus seems to be more about the loving thy neighbour messages than this creepy rant in Romans would suggest.
Why don’t you add a no option for the bacon question instead of assuming all Christians are hypocrites? This chart is immature.
so would it be wrong of me to mention what the Holy Qur’an says about this matter? well in Qur’an (7:80-84) – “…For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds…. And we rained down on them a shower.” and al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 – [Muhammad said] “Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.”
I’m Christian and have been for 5 months and I know for a fact it’s not just christian that doesn’t approve of this. Please don’t just attack one religions why there are others with the same views. I support Gay marriage,but I don’t believe it’s right it the eyes of God. If you we don’t see eye to eye then move one and on to the next topic! Don’t tell me I don’t understand or you can’t change because you can but no one can aid you but God,point blank. There is no class you can take nor DVD you can watch, the only book that can help is the book of God. I know i’m about to get a lot of hate about “You were never Bi-sexual” or “You don’t accept Gay marriage!” .but let me tell you the truth MY OPINION on this matter doesn’t matter, the only one that does is God’s. God views all sin equally, not one is greater than the others! Besides we don’t “Change” to please man , but to please God and If you truly fall in love with him then the rest is easy. Do it for God not man and if you don’t then it’s ok sugarpill,you’re life is all about the trill :3. All fellow Christians, don’t use the bible to attack because we are about Love because Jesus Loves everyone! Don’t gay bash and don’t be a hypocrite, check yourself before you check someone else. Love everyone no matter what and do it out of your love for Jesus. God bless and stay awesome #StopTheHate on both sides of the fence.
Leave religion out of it.
Sorry, but the logic/argument of this chart is wrong. Jesus DID speak about homosexuality when he uses the word “Porneia”. As well, this argument presumes that we don’t have to follow any Biblical imperatives if Jesus didn’t directly say it or if we personally don’t follow the OT law explicitly. Just because someone doesn’t follow the Bible 100% (an impossible task; we all sin) doesn’t mean that they are not allow to call another sin a sin. Please educate yourself about what Jesus said and what it means before you say that Jesus didn’t address it. You don’t have to believe the Bible/the authenticity scripture after 2000 years/etc. but understand that this is a ridiculous argument regarding homosexuality wouldn’t pass a theology 101 course. Below are two resources (one easy and one academic).
this was cute, but there’s a big problem i see. it only addresses religious arguments against gay marriage. however, there are plenty of non-religious arguments to oppose gay marriage that this article just doesn’t seem to want to answer.
@Mr. Pewterschmidt: exactly!
Problems with your little flowchart:
?#1. That “refrain from eating bacon” bit, yeah, was for the Jewish, not Christians. In the time of Leviticus, there were no Christians!
#?2. The shrimp? Yeah, again, that was for the Jews.
?#3. Tattooes, you guessed it, Jewish law.
?#4. Jewelry, gold, pearls, braiding hair, yes again, for the Jewish, and as a side note here, all those things were not ‘banned’ but women were to understand not to make them ‘important things’, that it is the inner beauty that God wants to see. And if you’d read (and understood) Ezekiel 16:11-13 you’d find the account of great things God did for the Jewish nation in rising them up by degrees to be very considerable. He saved them from the ruin in Egypt, He looked upon them with kindness and a tender affection, not only pitied them, but set his love upon them, He took them under His protection, He cleared them from the reproachful character that their bondage in Egypt laid upon them, He multiplied them and built them up into a people, He admitted them into a covenant with Himself, He beautified and adorned them, He fed them with abundance, etc. etc. etc. Of course, you’d have to actually READ the Holy Bible and comprehend it in order to see the truth.
?#5. And that divorce thing? Yeah, you’re wrong on that account also. READ Mark 10:2-5:
2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?” 3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied. 4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.” 5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied.
And good gosh, looka this! If you continue with Mark 10:6-8 WHICH YOU SO CONVENIENTLY OMITTED IN YOUR LITTLE LYING FLOWCHART THERE:
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them MALE and FEMALE.’ 7 ‘For this reason a MAN will leave HIS father and mother and be united to his WIFE, 8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one.”
So what you have created here with this piece of fictional, incorrect, misinformed, and lying flowchart does nothing but LIE.
Always remember, the Holy Bible was NOT written for non-believers. Don’t even try, you will not understand it, hence all the lies you’ve created in this asinine flow chart.
Your stupid flowchart destroys nothing. It only makes the people who support it look like fools.
Any true Christian can blow this flowchart into oblivion with the truth of His Word and facts. Just like I did. ^_^
@christian_girl I registered an account just so I can thank you. Thank you for representing Jesus Christ to me in a much better way than most other Christians do. And I accept your apology.
@Christian_girl: Apology accepted. You represent Christ in a much better way than most other Christians do.
@Eng77ine: THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!
@tsginamarieva: ummmm have you read the holy Qur’an’s view on Homosexuality, Just saying.
Where to start, where to start. 1.) yes it does say in the bible homosexuality is a sin an abomination in fact in a lot of chapters that Constantine took out by deeming them to graphic and terrifying 2.) god made a coven allowing man to eat shrimp and bacon 3.) the bible dies not condone the wearing of precious metals unless used for vanity 4.) all of the sins people commit that you keep pointing out do not lessen ANY sin, sin is sin and more importantly they ARE NOT condoned. That is all the education I care to give today and before anyone says anything this is off the bible I have read multiple time and is much much older then the mutilated version of king James u are all using to defend yourself. Like it was pointed out you can’t pick and choose what u wish to follow so trying to say that supports gays is redundant.
You people have no clue what the real bible says or what your saying.
First of all I’d like to apologize on behalf of the “Christian Church”. People that call themselves followers of Christ yet treat people poorly when we are all sinners in need of repentance. I’m a Christian, I read my bible and study it. I’m not perfect, I’m still learning but I do want to give a little more insight to what Jesus was like.
“It is technically true that Jesus did not specifically address homosexuality in the Gospel accounts; however, He did speak clearly about sexuality in general. Concerning marriage, Jesus stated, “At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh[.]’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” (Matthew 19:4–6). Here Jesus clearly referred to Adam and Eve and affirmed God’s intended design for marriage and sexuality.”
But more importantly Jesus said this, http://bible.com/59/luk.6.32-38.ESV [“If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”]
Jesus again and again tells us to LOVE. If you are an unbeliever this isn’t for you. This is for the person who calls themselves a believer but has no love for sinners. We are called to hate sin, not this sinner. You can not change someone’s heart by putting them down, they just become more bitter towards the church and pushes someone further away from Christ and truth. Sadly, I’ve been the receiver of that and worse, the shame-r. Instead, you need to show genuine love to someone and if they are a true child of God, their heart will respond to the Holy Spirit that God has called to them. You have no power to save them. Only God does.
Ok, Someone post this on my facebook, just realized it’s a website for Gay community so yeah..*firstly, sorry for bad grammar here, english is not my 1st language*
I’m a christian (so you might wonder why i’m here? to bash at you guys? to mock? discriminate?) really, i have no bad intention. I just want people especially the LGBT community to know that not all Christians are judgemental, not all Christians are anti-gay people.
I myself have a sis who’s gay, my lil young sis, whom i love so much. I don’t wish for her to be gay, coz I believe in traditional marriage. But i don’t go around judging her and her friends. In fact, she and i are so close, only when moments where she blurt out sentences like ‘i think she’s hot’ that when i felt awkward. But she and i mutually understand we have diff opinions and lifestyle, we respect each other. I even use words in the bible to comfort her sometimes, and she accept them. She told stories about her gay friends and i accept them too.
For us Christians, Being homosexual is a sin(no secret there) coz God made woman+man to be One. I don’t want to go into a debate here, but it’s true and that’s why we Christians avoid being homosexual, but we also avoid other sins such as lies,theft,murder,infidelity,etc.
But as God said, who’s perfect other than him? NO-ONE. So, we Christians struggle too, each day with different kinds of sin. Me especially, so many sins i have to deal with, repent each day, i got no time to judge others.
Maybe we all need to step back with the judging, even the gay community start being intolerant with Christians too, start stereotyping the Christians community as being discriminative, judging, anti gay. Not all Christians are like that you know. I’m sure the gay community hate to be stereotyped too, like not all gays like free sex/not all gays are angry all the time, etc. Right?
Christians/non Christians should look at Jesus as an example of real Christianity,not the Christian Community. Even sinners(tax collector,etc) like to hang out with Jesus. He got His charms.
I guote Mahatma Gandhi on this “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
For us followers of Christ, Let’s be more like Jesus and lesser like our old sinner self.
@lullabeanz: So true!!!
Actually the flow chart is a cheap shot. The old testament was the Old Covenant, by Jesus coming via the New Covenant the former was fulfilled. Why state laws from the old? Do you guys refer to the United States and their old segragation laws as still happening TODAY when talking about race relations? I highly doubt it. If anyone’s living in the past its the people who made this chart.
Let’s be frank, the real Christian Church aka Catholics teach to love all brothers and sisters and that we all sin. There is no hate towards homosexuality, it’s just a sin like any other sin. What did Jesus say about homosexuality or marriage? He simply stated that marriage is man and woman. That’s all. Matthew 19:4-6. Would you guys accuse Jesus of being the greatest of Bigots and Haters? Really? As a Christian its the job of one to share the truth with another out of charitable love. Would you allow your brother to slit his wrists simply ‘because you love and accept him’ or do you show an even greater love by trying to get him to stop? Does defining marriage as man and woman alone in the Bible or Religion stop others from loving one another? Nope. One would have to prove that love and marriage are mutually exclusive principles….and they aren’t.
This chart along with all the other propaganda implies that people who disagree with same sex marriage are bigots. Really, so disagreeing with someone is hate? Well isn’t there at least two sides to a disagreement? That’s an example of hypocrisy and shows that logic fails. Guess what? Parents disagree witht their own children almost daily and I will guarantee you it’s seen as love, not hate. Get with the program people. Stop pushing out this propaganda, because it’s insulting to the human race and to call Jesus a bigot, or a hater, kind of makes these people look beyond ignorant. After all aren’t they the ones misquoting and saying Jesus says to let the sinner be and just him? Wow telling a child hanging off a cliff, ‘I love you, but won’t do anything else’ really sucks! Actually Jesus said to the adulterous woman at the well, ‘Go and sin no more. ‘ All out of love.
They are six passages in the bible that refer to same sex behavior, three in the Old Testament and three in the New Testament. The most famous passage is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sends two angels disguised as men into the City of Sodom where the men of Sodom threatened to rape them. The angels blind the men, and God destroys the city. For centuries, this story was interpreted as God’s judgment on same-sex relations, but the only form of same-sex behavior described is a threatened gang rape. Ezekiel 16:49 sums up the stories focused on violence and hostility towards strangers. “Now, this was the sin of your sister, Sodom. She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, and unconcerned, they did not help the poor and needy.”
In Leviticus 18:22, male same-sex intercourse is prohibited, and violators are to receive the death penalty. “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.” Other things called abominations in the Old Testament include having sex during a woman’s menstrual period, eating pork, rabbit, or shell fish, and charging interest on loans, but they’re part of the Old Testament law code, which was fulfilled by Jesus.
Hebrews 8:13 says that the old law is obsolete and aging. Romans 10:4 says that Christ is the end of the law, so the Old Testament doesn’t settle the issue for Christians, but lets look to the New Testament which contains the longest reference to same-sex behavior in the bible.
In Romans 1:26-27, people who turn away from God to worship idols are then turned over to their own lusts and vices. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, in the same way, men committed shameful acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Paul’s words here are clearly negative, but the behavior he condemns is lustful. He makes no mention of love, commitment, or faithfulness.
His description of same-sex behavior is based solely on a burst of excess and lust. In the ancient world, same-sex behavior mainly occurred between adult men and adolescent boys, between masters and their slaves, or in prostitution. Most of the men engaged in those practices were married to women, so same-sex behavior was widely seen as stemming from out of control lust and vice of excess, like gluttony and drunkenness. And while Paul labeled same sex behavior unnatural, he says in 1 Corinthians 11:14 that for men to wear their hair long also goes against nature, and most Christians interpret that as a reference to cultural conventions.
In the last two likely references to same-sex behavior in the Bible, two Greek words, malakoi and arsenokoitai, are included in lists of people who will not inherit God’s kingdom. Many modern translators have rendered these terms as sweeping statements about gay people, but the concept of sexual orientation didn’t even exist in the ancient world. Yes, Paul did not take a positive view of same-sex relations, but the context he was writing in is worlds apart from gay people in committed, monogamous relationships. The Bible never addresses the issues of sexual orientation or same-sex marriage, so there’s no reason why faithful Christians can’t support their gay brothers and sisters. It’s time.
I don’t eat bacon, don’t have any tattoos don’t wear any jewelry and I’ve been single for a while… is that bad?
I also find it logical that God is real, and I know what it’s like to make something and see other people mess it all up..
After what happened to the nephilims the rainbow became a sign that the earth will never be flooded again. But something else might happen…
I’ll just wait and see what happens.
Joey M Casas
I love gays. But I’m against gay marriage. Not merely because of the bible, but rather because of Sacred Scripture + Sacred Tradition + Magisterium. Millions of Catholics would say the same. It would be a bit difficult to make a flow chart for all these three.
Jesus defined marriage in Matthew. It’s between a man and a woman. He didn’t address gay marriage because there is no such thing. If marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman, then gay marriage can’t exist so why or how would he address it? Any other union cannot be called marriage as defined by Jesus. This flow chart is dumb and whoever came up with it 100% has never read the Bible, nor do they have even a basic understanding of it. Leviticus is Old Testament, which Christians are free from since Jesus died for sin. It is the old law. The new law is love your neighbor as Christ loves the church and to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. Also, what’s the point in naming off a bunch of things the Bible calls sin when discussing gay marriage with a Christian? I don’t think there is any Christian out there claiming they’ve never sinned. Just because you sin doesn’t mean it’s not a sin, or you can’t call it sin. What kind of argument is that? It’s like you have a tattoo and the Bible says no tattoos, so you can’t say that gay marriage is wrong because you have a tattoo an the Bible says no tattoos. That makes no sense. I can have a tattoo and still be a Christian after I acknowledge I was wrong and ask for forgiveness. It’s like if you have sin in your life, you can’t be against gay marriage. That’s what this flow chart is suggesting and it’s absurd. As a Christian myself, I love all people and I’m a sinner in need of God’s grace. I love gay people but I will not say that their lifestyle is ok.
thank you for posting that chart because it presents a false teaching about the Bible. find it odd that this flow chart uses Jesus’ saying in the verse Mark 10:9 to suggest that the Bible prohibits divorces. The verse goes as follows: “What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” Using this is a bad argument for the creator of this flow chart because of 2 reasons: 1) a couple of verses before this Jesus shows who God designed marriage for and 2) because an identical passage is in Mathew, where the following verse identifies when getting a divorce is allowed. I’ll first start to explain my first reason. The flow chart only shows Mark 10:9 but if we back up a little bit and view Mark 10:6-9 we read this: “But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.'” This was Jesus talking and it clearly shows that God created people for their specific gender and that marriage is between one man and one woman so the idea that Jesus never spoke of gay marriage doesn’t mean anything because, as I demonstrated, He spoke of marriage being between a man and woman as God had intended. Therefore it is quite obvious that Jesus was against homosexual marriages. Now on to my second reason. In Matthew 19:6 we read: “So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” This is the same as Mark 10:8-9. of which the flow chart displays Mark 10:9. Now as we read Matthew, all we have to do is read the next couple of verses to see what is God’s position on divorce. Matthew 19:9 “And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” This was Jesus speaking and it shows that God doesn’t want us to divorce but He DOES allow for divorces if one of the spouses cheat on the other. So yes Jesus was against homosexual marriages and divorces are allowed when a spouse cheats. Now I also wanted to really quick address the idea of eating bacon. Bacon falls under the specific law for the Israelites during the Old Testament time and can be compared to shellfish while homosexuality is a universal law for all people and at all times. In the New Testament, it is shown that all food is now considered clean and can be eaten. The distinction between specific laws to the Israelites and universal laws is what my status above is about. Now I want to end with saying that I understand what the creator of this chart means with their ending statement of “Remember: Before joining a major religion, you should really read all the paperwork.” However I find it ironic that this person shows a lack of knowledge towards the Bible throughout their chart. Now people can disagree with the Bible if they want, however you should at least know what the Bible is preaching before you make that decision.
I don’t think any of us really know the Bible. Even those who have studied it all their lives are really just making their best guess, albeit an educated guess. The “Bible” was written by so many people who did not know each other and lived in different places and different times. King James had the Apocrypha omitted from the Bible he commissioned, some say because the Apocrypha praised women and celebrated their role in the Gospel and the spread of Christianity. Having lived as long as I have and having read so many different versions of the Bible, read so many writings by ministers of all faiths and bents, knowing so much more than we ever did even 30 years ago about the writings of the Bible,the times in which they were written, the circumstances under which they were written, and not knowing which stories are literal, which are parables, and God only knows what kind of imagery and symbolism used and when, how can anyone claim to be an expert on the Bible?
To me, the current version of the Bible, no matter which edition you use, is only confusing and divisive, even if read in the best context possible.
The most troubling and easy-to-misunderstand character in the Bible is the Apostle Paul. He started out as a persecutor of Christians, not only watching the stoning of Stephen, but indirectly causing the deaths of many other Christians who were being martyred after the Christian movement was started. He was converted after being blinded on the road to Damascus, where he had planned to have Peter arrested and, possibly, executed. After that, he became the most zealous Christian ever recorded in history.
However, how can we really know that Christ spoke to Paul? Did he appear to him physically? Did Paul hear him? When Paul received Christ’s words, was he awake or asleep? Was he dreaming? Was he psychotic? Nobody knows. All we have are the writings from that time, translated how many times from how many original languages, and revised how many times?
I have always had a problem with Paul. Like anyone who has been converted (a former smoker, a former drinker, a former sinner who has become a Christian), Paul felt the need to preach to other people, and to entire cities and communities through his famous Epistles, on what Christ commanded them to do, what they should and shouldn’t do, who was going to hell, who was going to heaven. He preached on the negative side the majority of the time, from what I have read – and I have read everything in the Bible about him.
He also mentioned a “thorn” in his flesh which kept him from being as close to the holiness of the Lord as he wanted to be. So many people have speculated about what that “thorn” was. Some think it was a woman. Some think it was a man; it has often been speculated that Paul was gay. Looking at the Bible, the opinions of several educated theologians, and just from being a perceptive person, I believe Paul was so contentious of sinners and wanted them to go to hell so badly because he himself felt unworthy of heaven. I think the “thorn” was guilt over his past, and that he didn’t truly feel worthy of being the bringer of the Word. I feel that he truly believed it was his mission to spread the Gospel and that he had no choice other than to do so. I think he was a miserable person who was incredibly unhappy doing what he was doing, despite being arrested many times and facing death many times, but felt powerless to do anything else. I truly believe that was his “thorn.”
Anyone who is reformed, as I mentioned above, feels the need to reform everyone else. That’s why they come on so strong and are often quite obnoxious about it, whether it’s smoking, drinking, or WHATEVER it is.
Besides Paul, the Jesus of the Bible thoroughly confuses me. In Matthew he mentions he did not come to bring peace, but to bring war, and that fathers and sons will be fighting against each other and households will be divided. Then in the same chapter he preaches love, tolerance, taking care of the poor and helpless, loving your neighbor as yourself, forgiving everything that is done to you, basically being the better person. He also talks about hell – a lot. It’s confusing; it has always been confusing for me, because as so many children growing up in the 60’s (and before and since) I was exposed to this kind of scripture from the age of 6-7. If these concepts are over my head now, then they were surely beyond my grasp when I was a child.
As I mentioned earlier, the Bible is an enigma. There are just too many things that are contradictory, downright confusing, and unclear or unexplained. NOBODY truly understands it. Those who claim to understand it are using the theology they are most comfortable with. Their best guess, and the one that makes them feel the best.
Why not be kind to one another, treat each other with respect, live and let live as long as no one is interfering with our life, our liberty or our pursuit of happiness. Let’s mind our own business and not meddle in the lives of people we don’t even know. Let’s not feel the need to attack, OR to defend. Let’s stop criticizing every single thing that we don’t understand or agree with.
Thus endeth the lesson.
Here is some food for thought… nazi’s where Christians, infact Hitler sought out Christianity because they saw the religion was close to what they believed and wanted a big advocate. However unhappy with the way things where in the bible, Hitler had them rewrite bible to strike any and all mention of Judaism however it is not unthought that a lot of what is written in the New testament may have also been changed by the nazi’s including the passages about homosexuality as the nazi’s thought it was an abomination which at the time was acceptable practice for roman catholic priests to lay with their alter boys instead of with women. Feel free to google it make sure you find the the difference between the nazi bible and the rewritten bible by Hitler specifically.
@DefectedZed: Hogwash. The bible teaches of such propaganda to be spewed and the lies about hitler rewriting the Holy Bible is part of it. It’s sad to know that some people actually fall for anything. I guess it’s true, when you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything.
1 Corinthians 6:9 11 says that homosexual is a sin and it won’t inherit the kingdom. But for those who repented and cleansed by the power of the Holy Spirit through the blood of Christ and believe that Jesus is the son of God , and has turn away from their sins will.
Levictus isn’t in the New Testament.
See this is nonsense and folly. This kind of bs can only be pulled on those “Christians” who do not read, study or know the Bible. Christ did speak about homosexuality. It is in the Levitical law and it is part of the commandments. Saying this hear the words of Christ…Revelation 22:12-15 KJV
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
So now Christ did say it, its in red letters. Quit with the foolishness. Now the main thing that is being missed is REPENTANCE!!!
You didn’t know that you couldn’t eat pork, shrimp, catfish. Didn’t know you couldn’t get tattoos etc. Well when you do find out it is wrong, one is to say I’m not doing that anymore. I won’t eat those things I won’t do those things anymore. That is what repentance is. So even though everyone sins, some of us repent unlike these homosexuals who try to justify and deflect from their own wicked sin. They can repent from eating pork, what about repenting from having a d shoved up your as s. Will you stop that act. Nope. Because you love your sin and justify it with things like this bs.
@Princess615: Sorry… as a Bible scholar with a Masters Degree in Divinity, you and YOUR misinterpretation are full of mierda. You’re simply a right wing Feminazi wannabe who wandered into the wrong bar and are enjoying it. Or maybe you’re just a misled charter member of the American christian Taliban; you all look and smell alike these days. Now get back to your kitchen, stay pregnant, and stay away from the more educated crowd here! Rev. Dakotahgeo!
@tsginamarieva: Christians are not the only ones who are taught that homosexuality is a sin. But people seem to sweep that under the rug, because the moslems are their “friends”. Read their qur’an. It’s in there. They punish gays by cutting their heads off. Where’s the outrage about that?
Ok. Here is the only argument anyone needs. If Jesus is God. And Jesus, per Heb 13:8 “Jesus never changes” How can God change his mind on His law, was He wrong? If He was wrong then He is not perfect.
On second note: If the Bible is correct and perfect, why are there so many versions that say similar but very different things. Which version is the right version? How would someone prove that theirs is right, versus another Bible?
Nice chart. I’ve been thinking that if the movement against gay marriage ever comes back maybe we can start a movement to amend the constitution to prohibit bacon. After all, God really, really hates bacon.
First I’ve seen of this chart. Cute and meaningful and smart too.
Just about everything in life is a ‘mixed-bag’, even we ourselves. Therefore, just about all that we do is a mixed-bag even though we try to be as ‘best’ as we can.
Paul, who authored most of the NT and most of the negativity about homosexuality, describes here the nature of his own knowledge and understanding —
1. …our (my) knowledge is partial and incomplete…
2. …we (I) see things imperfectly…
3. All that I know now is partial and incomplete…
(1 Corinthians 13:9,12)
That’s why any religion and the Bible and Christianity itself is a mixed-bag.
Here’s a possible cure for the problems that being a mixed-bag creates —
Christianity ‘without’ good, quality works and deeds expressed towards everybody, with all kinds of loving attitudes expressed towards everybody, won’t amount to a hill of beans in the future…….James 2:26
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