We can’t be seen as a group of people that want to have a unified message of equality and no discrimination if we ourselves are dividing ourselves through whatever methods, whether someone is feminine or someone is masculine or someone is black or someone is white. If we continue to create these own divisions within our own community, we are no better than the ones discriminating against us. And it’s extremely important because we have to change the way that we think. We have to change our own minds within our own community, open our own minds before we can expect other people to open their minds to us.
Rob Smith Responds:
I feel for Nelson. He’s obviously hurting, but he (and others) who want to take on this issue seem to think that our problems with racism will be solved if white gay men somehow magically became always as attracted to black, Asian, and Latino men as they (mostly) are to each other. It’s a weak argument that I have more than a few problems with:
First, the argument is always made by a black guy who seems to have built their entire idea of self worth on whether or not white gays see them as attractive. With deep empathy I say: get over it. Love yourself first and I guarantee that someone else will follow. We all have things we innately like, whether it’s thinner guys, beefier guys, or, yes, guys that are a certain race.
Secondly, the argument is always centered on white gays, ignoring the MANY gay men of color who also prefer to date within their own race. Are “sticky rice” Asians racist? Are black men who prefer to exclusively date other black men racist? How about Latinos who find themselves preferring to date other Latinos who share their same language and cultural values? Or what about the fact that many people’s taste changes over time?
As you can see, the topic is more complicated than, well, black and white.
Smith has even more to say in the video below, and he invites you to continue the conversation here, on his YouTube page, or to tweet him: @robsmithonline
money718
Thanks, Rob. You really made think hard about this issue(rolling my eyes).
KiraNerysRules
I am so over these types of articles from this site. It’s like you’re trying to race bait, Queerty. How about publishing an article that features black guys that doesn’t mention r@ce and dateability? I mean, black guys are more than this tired-@ss topic, but you keep portraying them as a group of men with low self-esteem because you keep publishing articles about a very small group of black guys who are upset some white dude at a bar wouldn’t shove his tip in. How about you stop writing so many probably paid for articles about the cast of “Looking” and feature Jussie Smollett from “Empire?” He’s hot, on a hit show, plays an amazing gay character, has nude photos scattered all about the internets. This should be right in your wheelhouse, Queerty.
FriendoDorthy
@KiraNerysRules: I couldn’t disagree more with this anon. I have noticed this issue quite A LOT within the gay community and it is something that shouldn’t be swept under the rug and pretended not to be there. It is something that should be discussed with everyone offering their opinions and perspectives and I happen to agree with Mr. Smith. He seems like a bright man, and he is a real credit to the gay community.
Oh and just because you don’t like the show “Looking” doesn’t mean its discussion is paid for, maybe it is and maybe it isn’t. You talk as if in one case it is shilling to be talking about a show, but not in the other case, in the case of “Empire”, and while I can’t speak for everyone here, “Looking” is vastly more interesting and relevant to this site than “Empire” is.
KiraNerysRules
The problem is it has been published and discussed over and over and over again. It’s the same topic over and over again. And “Empire” is totally on topic.
FriendoDorthy
@KiraNerysRules: It’s about as relevant as “Three’s Company” because homosexuality just happens to come up in it. Pass, there are much better, more interesting, and more relevant shows to write about.
KiraNerysRules
OK. That proves you’ve never watched it. It’s on Hulu. You should check it out.
DarkZephyr
@KiraNerysRules: I don’t necessarily agree with all of Mr. Smith’s points OR think that its JUST about who wants to date who (I think the problem is more about how they WORD their preferences rather than the fact that they have them) BUT I definitely respect his opinion and how he has presented it. I really do believe that this is a dialogue that we SHOULD have as long as its civil. And dude, he is a Queerty contributor. Its almost like you are saying that because he is black he should NOT be weighing in on this topic.
@money718: Your eye rolling really does the job though, doesn’t it?
KiraNerysRules
“And dude, he is a Queerty contributor. Its almost like you are saying that because he is black he should NOT be weighing in on this topic.”
I never said anything like like.
lauraspencer
Thank you Rob Smith! This is an interesting perspective that I have seen first hand.
Having been out 20 years I have friends all ages, shapes, sizes and races. Over the years I have seen my white friends date a variety of races, but my Asian and African American friends have always pursued and dated white men only (they even have mostly white friends, ignoring friends of their own race). It isn’t that men of their race don’t exist they just don’t have any interest. When I have asked them why they only pursue white guys they usually respond “that’s what I like”.
It is sad, but I have often thought they do not find themselves attractive so that is why they look away from their own race. They view the white guys as “trophies” because of the images they have seen growing up of what is perceived as beautiful.
I have told my friends that if you don’t find yourself attractive it is going to be harder for other people to find you attractive.
I’m lucky that I have never really cared what other people think about me and that has often helped me with guys. When you are confident in yourself that is one of the hotness qualities a guy can have regardless of race, age, size, etc.
Tackle
I agree with a lot of what Rob said, and he makes some good point. The points that I would like to make are, he feels this argument is so ten yrs ago, and is surprised that we are still having it today. But if you realize that ten yrs ago, you had gay non- White kids who were 7-8 and 9 yrs- old: and who are now 17-18 and 19 , and are joining gay dating/ hook-up/ sites, this is going to be NEW to them.
And the few Black guys who feel like this is a problem. It’s a problem because you make it a problem. By being exclusively into White men. True with what Rob said about self love: Very important. But it’s also important that you learn and practice to date across the board, and stop placing such a value on White men, and try placing a value on decent men and other attributes besides ones skin color.
onthemark
This will probably sound hopelessly shallow and superficial… but I’ll try to re-read what Rob has to say, later today, after I beat off to that first photo two or three more times.
zaneymcbanes
The original quote doesn’t seem like it’s focusing on just race. It’s talking about how we need to stop making little boxes of what our “type” is because it separates us as a community and makes us seem shallow.
Personally, I think it’s fine to have preferences, but you should be open to looking outside of those preferences.
Desert Boy
It is unfortunate many liberals demand everything in society be seen through a racial prism. Blacks represent just 12.3% of the U.S. population. Meanwhile, you rarely hear the self-flagellation from Hispanics, our largest minority group, or Asians, our most successful minority group. But blacks just can’t let go of their victim mentality.
KiraNerysRules
And Desert Boy’s douchy comment is my exhibit A. The more this topic is portrayed as the most important topic concerning Black, gay men, the more people believe this is the most important topic concerning Black, gay men. It’s called framing.
KiraNerysRules
I’m just advocating for a variety of topics beyond Black guys whining about White dudes. There are other topics concerning Black, gay men. Look at the variety of topics that cover White dudes on this site.
Wagner Wallace
I’m so sick of hearing whites talk about what blacks want based on bullshit they hear from their “Uncle Tom” black friends.
As a gay black man myself, NO I dont see having a white guy as a “trophy”. I’m actually grossed out by the majority of the ones I see here in West Hollywood – they’re usually trashy and are drug addicts.
If you’d ask a normal black guy – and not some self-loathing, “white washed” black guy, that most white people tend to befriend – how he feels about dating a white man, most of either don’t care or aren’t even into white guys to begin with.
Blackceo
:sighs: Here we go. I have commented on this topic but i too am sick of it. I know the difference between preference and exclusion so no need to even elaborate on that anymore.
@Desert Boy:
Just…..NO. Sound like Tea Bag Party talking points and I’m sure you don’t know shit about Black culture or Black history to be making generalizations about the whole race. Please take a stadium of seats.
Wagner Wallace
**most of us either don’t care or aren’t even into white guys to begin with.
badamsthies
Rob Smith brings our attention to the issue of race. However, both contributors fail at really thinking critically about the issue. Racism is taught to us as kids and many times the concept is not even a conscious decision on our parts. Racism is the categorization of people by race (which Smith points out). So, saying that one isn’t into white guys, black guys, asian guys etc is a practice of racism because one is categorizing by race. This categorization system is completely arbitrary. We could, just as easily, categorize by eye color or toe formation. What Smith seems to be saying is what if we attempted to unlearn a categorization system and worked at that unlearning consciously? I think he has a valid point. What if, instead of saying, “I am just not into Latinos” we asked “What do I think I am just not into Latinos?”. Our community, and the mainstream USA culture are not ‘over’ race…by using neoliberal ideologies we aren’t creating a more just and equal world we are merely finding ways to keep the status quo.
SonOfKings
@Desert Boy:
Well the reason you don’t here Hispanics decrying exclusionary racial practices in gay dating is because White guys tend to love Latinos almost as much as they do other White guys. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a gay dating or hookup ad that stated: No Latinos need reply.” It’s usually the “No Blacks,” “No Asians” taglines you see. And Asians have often complained about being explicitly excluded from consideration in thus regard. It’s not hard to see why Blacks and Asians are often upset by racial preferences, but White and Latinos are, generally, OK with it. It’s about who is impacted more. Try to have a little empathy.
SonOfKings
I have often argued that men of color are probably better off focusing their efforts on other men of color, rather than trying to persuade or win over these White boys, who are just not having chocolate or rice (for whatever their reasons). However this issues continues to resonate because it is a kind of emotional slap in the face when some random White guys suddenly blurts out (or advertises in a banner) “I don’t do Blacks!” I’m Black and they damn sure better not say it to me in those terms (whether explicit or implicit). I would MUCH rather be refused on the grounds of weight, age, class, or any of those other attributes that are present among all races. I’ve seen. Lot of White dudes that I am not attracted to, but I would not decline the, on the basis of race alone. I don’t play that way. Treat people as individuals and turn they asses down because they have let themselves go, physically—not because of the racial group they belong to. Just for the record, I am open to dating all races, I have, and I am going to continue doing so. That’s how I get my sensual satisfaction.
AtticusBennett
the point he misses is that its’ “trickle-down racism” – a white-worshipping culture leads not just white people to prefer their own, but many non-white people to prefer WHITE PEOPLE – whites are held as THE STANDARD.
quite simply, and those of you who don’t understand nuance will not pick up on this, there is indeed a difference between “whites who are only into other whites” and “blacks who are only into blacks”. like i said, i’m sure some of you will not understand that. it happens.
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2011/11/oh-abercrombie-fitch.html
i’m a white guy, and i’m not into guys with “ethnic preferences”. AT ALL.
white guys don’t get offended by “no whites” on profiles, because whites are already the most-privileged “class” – its’ no bother to them, because it’s not something they every truly experience.
profile after profile saying “no blacks or asians”, however, is nothing but a constant reminder of systemic institutionalized prejudice and ethnocentric generalizing in our society.
would you write “no blacks or asians” on a tee shirt and wear it to a bar? no? then don’t put it on your f***ing profile.
a preference for ethnicities is NOT innate – and it can change, and it WILL change, if you first allow yourself the possibility and room for that change to happen.
alas, you tend to get many braindead idiots who’d rather waste time and energy defending their limited preferences than working to transcend them.
odawg
@KiraNerysRules: And what is race baiting exactly? I have come to realize that usually people who respond with similar platitudes like yours when race is mentioned have racial issues of their own they haven’t worked through. It would be LOVELY if race didn’t matter, but it does and has from the founding of this country.
odawg
@AtticusBennett: It’s like you read my mind. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
odawg
@badamsthies: Exactly!
jockjack5
There is another hidden factor in why a lot of white men do not want to date black men, especially under casual or spontaneous circumstances.
HIV/AIDS
It’s a statistical fact that the prevalence of HIV/AIDS is astronomically higher within the black community as a whole, and even more so with gay men. The hushed tones of talk about the “down-low” are well recognized in the community.
So setting aside the aspect of attractiveness and sexual desire, this unfortunate fact makes many white men afraid of sex with a black man.
It is what it is.
KiraNerysRules
@odawg : Jeez. It was clear. I said Queerty was race baiting by regurgitating one topic about Black guys over and over again while ignoring the rest of our existence and experiences. Sheesh. I’m a Black male, and I think there are other topics than if some other Black guy feel bad a White dude on Grindr doesn’t want to hook up with them. Saying I’m more than this rehashed topic. We Black, gay men are more than this topic.
AtticusBennett
@jockjack5: those white men who are afraid of AIDS should check out these neat-o new inventions called “CONDOMS” which one wears during sexual intercourse to protect against HIV/AIDS and other STDs.
if you’re afraid to have sex with someone, anyone, because “they might have AIDS” you’d do well to learn about how to have safe sex. because if you think ‘avoiding people with HIV or black people” is how to have “safe sex” then you’re a f***ing idiot and shouldn’t be having sex with anyone. period.
nobody gets HIV from having protected sex with someone who is OPEN about their HIV+ status – they get HIV from barebacking with some guy who says he’s Neg or “DDF”
tdh1980
In a world in which all cultures, races, and ethnicities were equally celebrated and appreciated in this country I’d be far more disposed to agreeing unequivocally with Smith’s thoughts. Unfortunately, when a society spends hundreds of years placing such high esteem on whiteness in almost every manner while simultaneously devaluing blackness at ever turn, it proves difficult for people to simply “get over it.” I already have to fight every day against systemic and institutional forces of racial injustice and inequality to prove I’m more intelligent, capable, and talented than the mediocre white man next to me, so when I connect with a guy on what I hope to be on a romantic level — be he black, white, or in between — the last thing I want to be an “impediment” is something as inconsequential as my skin color. I see these types of “preferences” as nothing more than an extension of those same mechanisms that have yielded years of white supremacy.
jockjack5
@AtticusBennett:
There is no need to lay a foul tongue on me my brutha…
Most intelligent individuals are capable of conveying a written thought without resorting to the F-bomb. Period.
I am DDF these days by practicing safe-sex, and am therefore fully aware of how this is done.
I just choose to minimize my risk, sort of like when I extend someone credit at the bank where I work. I look at HIV/AIDS statistics like I would someone’s Beacon Credit Score and choose to exclude that portion of the population that poses the greatest risk.
As Michael Corleone once said, “it’s not personal, it’s strictly business”.
Wagner Wallace
@jockjack5: You’re an idiot. Actually there are more WHITE men living with HIV/AIDS than there are blacks. Get your facts right before commenting.
SOURCE: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html
Tackle
@Desert Boy: Your post is full of foolish fuckery. The So-called self flagellation that you speak of, only comes from a small number of Black men. Those who exclusive date, and are into White men. The vast majority of gay and bi Black men are not exclusive to White men. So stop with the generalizations.
And it seems that you do not understand what the term Hispanic means. Hispanic is a culture identity and not a r@cial or ethnic group. So out of Hispanics, you will find Black, White, Asians and different combos/ admixtures. If you are indeed in the desert, hope you stay there and get lost…
Tackle
@Wagner Wallace: Damn! You beat me to it. I was just going to bring up and show the same thing to that clown (@jockjack5: ) That there are more gay White men with HIV/ AIDS, then there are Black men. And I noticed that he said community. No need to talk about community. Gay men do not date, and have sex with the whole community. Most times it’s men with men. So now are all those/ these gay White men are going to be afraid to have sex with other White men. And will they still have this high level of sexual desire and attractiveness towards White men that you sited as a reason they did not have towards Black men??
So I guess it isn’t what it is.
Blackceo
@SonOfKings:
I have noticed that as well. I’m Blatino but look more Latino than I do Black bcuz of my hair and skin tone and other features but I have noticed that in White guys too and my interactions with them. Then most of them open their mouths and say something stupid and thats the end of that.
@Tackle:
As usual, I am co-signing with your comments.
odawg
@Desert Boy: Troll level = Expert
odawg
@jockjack5: Ignorance must be bliss. Please check your facts before posting misinformation. Here’s a FACT for you
Among all gay and bisexual men, white gay and bisexual men accounted for 11,200 (38%) estimated new HIV infections in 2010. The largest number of new infections among white gay and bisexual men (3,300; 29%) occurred in those aged 25 to 34.
Source: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/facts/
odawg
@Blackceo: LOL! Well said!
odawg
@Wagner Wallace: I posted the same link. 🙂 People like the OP are a scourge because they pick and choose information to make their points and in doing so reveal they have the intelligence and critical thinking skills of an amoeba.
Clark35
@Wagner Wallace: Very true.
I have gay black male friends who are HIV neg since they pratice safer sex; but all the guys I know who are HIV+ or who have other STDs are white.
Tackle
@Blackceo: Thanks man. And happy King day to you…
DogCollarPistolWhip
Don’t be an individual. You must be part of the collective “gay community” and you must adhere to the tenets of the “gay community”.
It is more insulting insisting that we all think the same.
SonOfKings
I’ve watched Rob Smith’s video a couple of times over; and the more I listen, the more I dislike his point of view. Frankly, it’s rude to tell someone to “get over it,” when something has obviously had an emotional impact on them. A Latino guy I dated, briefly, told me other Latinos he’s acquainted with will not date Blacks, because they consider that a step down the social ladder for them. Anglo-White would be. Step up. Even though such words were never spoken to me directly, I was hotly angered; and to this day do not trust those White-ish Latinos that want to be all the way White and exclusvely surrounded by said company. They look down on Blacks, and I don’t care for that attitude. Rob Smith comes across to me as one of those token Black gay men, who has found his niche among White men that accept him as one of the “good” Negros. He is in agreement with the sentiment that Other Black, gay men need to “get over” their discontent with the status quo. I am not feeling Mr. Smith on this.
Wagner Wallace
@Tackle: THANK YOU for this comment! The vast majority of gay & bi Black men (myself included) are not exclusive to White men, and we dont see dating a white man as a “trophy or “prize” as stated in an earlier comment, so please stop with the generalizations…
Wagner Wallace
@SonOfKings: I got the same vibe from Rob Smith after I watched his video, and I’m sure his white friends are really eating up this video up and his train of thought.
dave lopes
From my experience, this is a minority issue within the black gay community.
The vast majority of blacks gays that I know are into other blacks.
I live in Boston and get to Atlanta often just for the ALL Black clubs, parties and sex parties.
While I understand their feeling of rejection, I am totally unable to empathize with that minority of black gays.
SonOfKings
@dave lopes:
Dave Lopes; with all due respect, your lack of empathy is troubling. You are able to get your erotic fix and fill of attractive men by traveling to large Black, gay population centers like Atlanta (and probably DC too) for the sex parties, barbecues and such; then go back home to Boston and wait for the next Black sex weekend, when you can go out of town again and do the same thing. I’ve done that drill many times myself and have had more and hotter Black men than I would even dare to admit. Problem is, not all Black, gay men have the ability or inclination to consistent run out of town down to chocolate cities just to get a date! Some GBM are stuck where they are in places where men if their color are few and far between. I live in Canada, and if I did not date interracially and use my swag to pull that game, I most likely could not date locally at all. The only places where I have been able to consistently run them Browns down is places like DC, Atlanta, and a few other choice sites. So I do empathize with those Negros, who don’t have access to the Black sex parties in Blacklanta and are shut out by the non-Black races, where they live. Also, sometimes you just want a friend. It’s not always about the sex thang.
Tackle
@Wagner Wallace: You’re welcome. And thanks for adding the link to those stats.
@dave lopes: And I’m with you on not being to empathize with those/ these. ” minority” of Blacks.
They made their own damn bed, now lie in it. They are not innocent.
And for the most part, they tend to be more of a ffriend to the gay White community.
An exclusive mind/ mentality is just that: Exclusive. Thisis not something that easily can be turned on, and turned off. I find that when people have a type they like, prefer or are exclusive to in the dating/sex/friendship area, they tend to be partial to that type away from dating/ sex/ friendship. In short order, people will be nicer, kinder, more patient, helpful, friendlier and even smile more to those who are their type/who they find attractive. So when this is flipped, those who tend to be more INCLUSIVE, liking a variety of types across the board, will simply show, kindness, patience, helpfulness, friendliness and smile for a larger number of people. ..
Creamsicle
I conducted an experiment several days ago. I changed my profile picture to a different picture of myself on grindr and jack’d and then removed my asian ethnicity. I didn’t replace it with anything else. Within 24 hours I had 9 messages after many months of hVing o ly receieved spam on eithr rof those apps. While this is entirely anecdotal it does show thst in some ppaces and for some people the presence of the ethnic tag is huge.
If Ny of you are wondering, I’m a tan asian often get asked, “what are you?” And I currently live in Santa Barbara.
blackberry finn
Hmmm…guys (any race) who are attractive do well on the dating scene If a guy isn’t getting as many dates as he thinks he’s entitled to get, it might not be because of his skin color but his lack of overall attractiveness. Of course, it’s easier to blame society for our loneliness than our genes (or hygiene), since the former can theoretically be changed.
Not to detract from the poster’s point about racism in the community, but let’s face it: none of us get as much as we’d like to, and white guys are no exception.
Meb
I don’t agree at all. I could understand those objections in general or about the friendship but regarding to sexual or sentimental relations this approach is not appropriate. The dictatorship of the political correctness mustn’t invade private areas.
blackberry finn
@badamsthies: Well, maybe the next step would be to tackle gender prejudice. Why should we categorize our sex partners by gender? Isn’t it “discriminatory” to reject having sex with someone because they are a male or female? Or is “taste” a valid concern there, yet not when it comes to skin color? Why should I be content to “discriminate” against someone because they are shorter than myself, when I prefer taller people? Should I be worried now about my height-ism?
Bottom line: we cannot help whom we are attracted to. That’s true within races as well as among them. But obviously a distinction should be made between discounting someone for their race because we think they are somehow inferior, and discounting them because we are simply not attracted to them. The former is something intertwined with the social messages we receive, the latter is a different thing. You cannot mandate who people should want to sleep with. That cold, incontrovertible fact should not detract from the social goal of eradicating racial discrimination, but it should be recognized, if not honored.
EbonyOnly
Blackberry Finn
You are one individual who has it figured out correctly. Thank God there’s hope.
EbonyOnly
@Blackceo:
Let me, as a Gay White male say to you…not all of any race can be the total sum. You have to be open minded to individuals not race.
blackberry finn
@AtticusBennett: More thinking needed. If no racial distinctions were recognized, having an ethnic preference would itself lose its meaning. The issue of racism in society does not so much condition our preferences in skin tone/ethnicity, as the values we place on the act of preferring.
Realitycheck
@blackberry finn:
The cure to racism is to mix people of all races as much as possible starting from school, to work, and housing, to the point where there is no a majority of any race in a building or town.
Crazy as it might sound, Europe and the USA are pretty much on track to do just that.
How ever I do not think we can have a color blind society were racial differences are not identified, as you mentioned, perhaps a better way to go would be to celebrate people differences .
Realitycheck
@Wagner Wallace:
Wagner, actually the chart you show makes the field pretty even,
the data has been divided not only by race but also but gay and straight
and if you add all the groups of each race together, you pretty much get the same
numbers.
How ever, if you look at the radio by % of general population, then
the % of HIV+ white vs HIV- white is much less then the one of
african americans.
That said, does it really matter when one love some one and one can use protection
or be creative about sex?
Not to mention, in big cities like San Francisco, LA and NYC, there is a huge
concentration of HIV+ what ever they tell people or not, if they even know they are +,
sad as it might be, all gay guys going to bars or dating they should expect a 50/50
chance their date is HIV+…………
jockjack5
@Realitycheck:
Thank you for stating what should be obvious to anyone willing to remove their heads from the sand (or ass):
“HIV- white is much less then the one of african americans”
Although I am not an attorney, I do watch Judge Judy almost every day.
Case closed.
Saint Law
Peops can have what ‘racial’ preferences they like. But as the shitbag Jockjack demonstrates, those who show an exclusive attachment to their own ‘race’ always have something wrong with them.
I say this as a white man who has dated white men with said attachment. They always turn out to be confined in other ways, lacking imagination, empathy and intelligence.
I live in London which is a dump in many ways. But one thing it has going for it is there are the most beautiful men to be found pretty much everywhere.
What kind of prat would turn somebody down on the grounds that their skin color didn’t accessorize with their own?
dave lopes
@Saint Law: “those who show an exclusive attachment to their own ‘race’ always have something wrong with them”
“They always turn out to be confined in other ways, lacking imagination, empathy and intelligence.”
Lacking imagination and intelligence??? lol, you are obviously not a student of history.
E T
@AtticusBennett: Race and ethnicity are not the same thing. You’re discussing race and using the word ethnicity.
Wagner Wallace
@jockjack5: Case reopened based on misinformation.
@Realitycheck: Actually the chart provided doesn’t even list data for straight white men who are infected with HIV/AIDS, so how could you possibly add up everything to get “pretty much” the same numbers? Once again, please read and get your facts right before commenting.
Also notice those are NEW cases. It is basically impossible to find statistics of the demographics of people currently living with HIV/AIDS, but I’m more than certain that aren’t pretty and whites would most likely lead even more heavily there too.
As for your argument about the overall black population vs the overall white population, that’s irrelevant here. That’ll pad every statistic down, simply because throughout history whites have bred more, immigrated more, and helped fill up “fly over states” in rural Middle America.
If you look at a map of the US, HIV/AIDS generally effects larger urban areas, where it’s more diverse and where the majority of black Americans reside. I understand it might help you feel a little better knowing that there are millions of more whites in rural Middle America to help bring down your percentage as a whole, but if you actually look at the areas that are actually effected by the disease the chart is an accurate representation.
Also, the cities you noted that have a higher concentration of HIV+ people are majority white cities. If you wanted to make your case, play a numbers game, and skew percentages, you couldve atleast listed cities with a majority black population – ie Atlanta, New Orleans, Baltimore. That comment alone just further let me know how ignorant you are on the subject matter.
Tackle
@Wagner Wallace: Both are twisting/ignoring facts to suit their own agenda. @jockjack5: originally posted that,
” HIV/AIDS is astronomically high in the black community, EVEN MORE SO WITH GAY BLACK MEN.”
Then he went on to add, “How some unfortunate facts, makes MANY white men afraid to have sex with blacj men”.
So now after being proven wrong, they want to do a different song and dance routine. Let dance away from gay black men, and make this about the black community: as a whole.
Not gonna work.
Wagner Wallace
@Tackle: Exactly – very well put.
SonOfKings
@blackberry finn:
Blackberry Finn, you’ve hit the nail on the head. These people who have racially exclusive preferences sometimes become miraculously flexible when your racial label is absent or ambiguous. That’s the reason so many obviously Black or Asian men describe themselves as “mixed” in their profiles. People don’t necessarily “like what the like.” They like what they THINK they like, and that is colored by all sorts of racial prejudices, labels, stereotyping, and their own self image as someone who doesn’t do this race or that race. In a figurative sense, some “can’t tell the difference after dark.” And that’s Ok, so long as they don’t think your Asian.
Maude
Preference for one thing over another does not mean the other is a bad thing.
I think I’ve had sex in a bed, in a forest, in a vestibule, on a roof, in the subway, on a train, front and back seat of a car, in a bus, a school room, in a pool, on a beach,etc, etc, and and I can’t tell you which was which regarding skin color.
Still, I prefer white…..I guess because I am white, but I don’t know.
What I do know is, to one degree or another, I enjoyed all of them during the moment.
I may have had sex with at least one of every race in the world, but certainly not everybody in the world……..so until I do, I will have to rely on my admitting limited experiences…….I prefer white.
heavylifter
Robert Smith rightly points out it is a minority of disgruntled ethnic men who are fixated on white guys who do not find them sexually attractive.
It is laughable these men think they are “victims of oppression” because white guys on Grindr will not hook up with them.
Personally I don’t find asian or black features sexually appealing, however looking at Robert Smith I don’t think he would have any trouble scoring a white guy from that group who are attracted to black men.
Realitycheck
@Wagner Wallace:
Wallace from the same site “CDC”, read this, and below the link,
and I am not out to get you, I am simply pointing out the facts.
“Blacks/African Americans continue to be disproportionately affected by HIV infection. The estimated rate of new HIV infections among blacks/African Americans (68.9) was 7.9 times as high as the rate in whites (8.7). In 2010, of all of the new HIV infections among blacks/African Americans, 51% were among MSM and 38% were attributed to heterosexual contact.”
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/surveillance/incidence/
Curty
I’m triracial, white, black and native and don’t discriminate on someone’s ethnic group or skin color. Sure im attracted to latino men but that doesn’t mean I haven’t dated others. My current boyfriend is english and polish and guess what, im fine with that because he treats me good and im attracted to him. To say you won’t date a person based on complexion to me is just very shallow and you may miss out. I chose to not exclude and have a wonderful bf. Maybe others should do the same.
dave lopes
@Curty: No my friend, it is not up to you to tell others what to do or what group to be attracted to.
You said you chose not to exclude, others also have the right to chose to exclude.
Follow your own attraction and allow others to follow theirs.
Curty
@dave lopes: I didn’t tell people to choose bitch. But I did say it is shallow. Reread what I said.
jockjack5
@Wagner Wallace:
The rate of black males living with an HIV infection diagnosis is 6.2 times that of white males.
http://aidsvu.org/state/south-carolina/
If you persist in ignoring these facts Mr. Wallace, you will leave me with no choice but to seek a cease and desist order from the court.
Smokick15
@Curty: I was just about to say the same thing to dave lopes. Apparently his ignorance and lack of understanding has seeped into his whole being, thus rendering his ability to read and comprehend words and sentences useless.
@dave lopes: “Lacking imagination and intelligence??? lol, you are obviously not a student of history.”
What do you mean or trying to imply might I ask?
Blackceo
@Realitycheck:
@jockjack5:
Was he referring to rates or plain individual people? Based on % of population it disproportionately affects Blacks more, but in overall numbers I still think its more whites. I mean this is like the “more Black people are on welfare” argument. Well, proportion to population its higher, but in raw numbers individually no.
jockjack5
@Blackceo:
The social ills and economic realities that exist within the black population of the USA are but a microcosm of the world at large.
Whether it’s HIV/AIDS, economic development, societal crime and violence, or simply the manufacturing of automobiles, Africa is a basket-case when compared to Europe or Asia. Sub-Saharan Africa has NEVER produced a car, ever.
I make this point with a large degree of sadness, but these are the facts and they are not is dispute.
As a Blackceo, you surely must be aware of this paradigm?
Blackceo
Oh yes I am. Huge social issues that disproportionately affect the Black community. I mean take your pick. I was really just trying to clarify tho rates vs individual numbers re: HIV/AIDS. But one shouldn’t just talk about numbers without also discussing why those rates are the way that they are.
Realitycheck
@Blackceo:
Great point, we are really just playing with numbers,
when we really have no idea (since we are talking
about gay population) exactly how many gay (white or black)
are infected vs the straight segment of USA population.
Again, it is a personal choice, but many people
no longer consider HIV+ an obstacle, and why not
love is love.
By the way, why has this become more important then the original topic?
Realitycheck
@jockjack5:
“Africa is a basket-case when compared to Europe or Asia.
Sub-Saharan Africa has NEVER produced a car, ever.”
You are talking about an extremely complex problem with many
causes and reasons, technology and education will solve many problems
over time, but to change a situation first you have to change the people
in that situation, and nations are like people they need to grow and that
takes time.
jockjack5
@Realitycheck:
Social Darwinism my friend may be the only plausible explanation for the seemingly intractable pathologies that exist within the global African community. The world is now way past the neo-colonial excuses of the 1950’s.
Sad but true.
blasted
@Realitycheck @Jockjack5
from the CDC website “At the end of 2012, of the estimated 880,440 persons living with an HIV diagnosis, 451,656 (51%) were gay and bisexual men. Forty-five percent of gay and bisexual men living with an HIV diagnosis were white, 30% were black/African American, and 20% were Hispanic/Latino. ”
So let’s do some very easy math here. Because people get very confused by percentage numbers when the real number is what’s important to your points you are trying to state that gay black men are affected by hiv more so than whites, but when you factor in percentage of population, and the actual numbers that isn’t even possible.
there are 300 million people in America according to the US Census 2010, 72.4% are white (223,553,265), 12 percent (38,929,319) black total: Now this particular number is what concerns the gay community in particular in terms of hiv (456,656 which accounts for 51% of all cases of diagnosed HIV 880,440)203,245 are white 45%, 135,496 are black 30%, a difference of 67,749 or 15%. So the logic that being with a black person somehow puts you at more risk is not reflected in the CDC information, if anything you are more inclined to get hiv from a gay white or bisexual male.
Also talking about black men on the DL, there are just as many white gay men on the DL, numbers wise, so white male can play the numbers game and try to skew the results in your favor, there are simply more of you, the real skew is when those numbers for minorities are reflect within that set community, those number become higher because the population is smaller, and this is the number that people mistakenly focus on while ignoring the raw numbers. They simply don’t lie.
M.D.
As a black man whose educational and professional endeavors have yielded 90%+ white/Asian social networks I wish I were attracted to white men. It would be immensely beneficial to my sex life at least. Alas, black men are the only ones who do it for me, and in my social circles, I’m often the only one. Or if there is another one he’s either straight, or a raging snow addict who I don’t even want to talk to, let alone fuck. Ugh, if I were attracted to white guys I would definitely be in a relationship right now and/or having lots more sex.
-wannabe snow queen