As part of the I’m From Driftwood series chronicling LGBTQ stories from all walks of life, Nelson Moses Lassiter shares this poignant story living at the crossroads of gay life and racial prejudice.
Here it is in his words:
When I came to terms with my sexuality, it took a very long time. I used to just debate with myself back and forth and I used to, I was actually angry that I was gay and I was angry at God for making me gay, there were just so many things that were going through my mind. So when I came to terms with everything, I wanted to go out and just meet guys and make friends and kind of find my place in the world, knowing that the world that I came from just wasn’t the one for me, it wasn’t accepting. Eventually I started meeting people and making friends and there was this one time I was actually just chatting with this one guy and the conversation was going great and there was definitely a really cool connection there, there were a lot of similarities and I said, “Oh, do you want to grab a drink some time?”
And he goes, “You’re really sweet, you’re really nice, but I don’t date black guys.”
He was just like, “Well, they’re just not my type.”
I was like, “Well what does that mean, you don’t like me because I’m black? That’s weird.”
And he was like, “It’s okay, though, I have a friend who’s into black guys.”
And I was like, “What does that mean? What does it mean to be ‘into’ black guys?”
I met this guy and, his friend, and I was like, “So what is it about black guys that you like?”
He said, “I like the way that they look and they way they talk, the way they walk, the way they wear their pants down low.”
And I was like, none of this has anything to do with an actual black person, this is, these are stereotypes and these are just preconceived notions and things that you hear. It wasn’t that he liked black guys, he was into the idea or into, it was more like an object of affection or a fetish more than actually liking the person. It was at that moment when I realized, “Wow, this is another thing.” So what is this world that I’m slowly becoming a part of because it was the complete opposite of everything I was expecting.
On the flip side, what made things even crazier was that my black friends were upset with me because I was dating someone that wasn’t black. I had this one black friend who was still in the closet, he was actually rather upset at the fact that I was dating a white guy. We were hanging out and I was telling him about this guy and he was like, “Why are you dating white people? You know that they don’t like us.”
I was like, “What do you mean they don’t like us? Because I’m dating someone who likes me a lot, so what are you getting at?”
And he goes, “What, do you think you’re too good for your own race?”
He basically said that I was a self-hater and I didn’t like black people or I didn’t like who I was and I wanted to be someone else because of the fact that I wasn’t dating my own race.
These experiences happened less within like half a year. It was like all these new things that were coming into sight at such a fast pace in such a short time, I was just like, “We need a lot of work.” We can’t be seen as a group of people that want to have a unified message of equality and no discrimination if we ourselves are dividing ourselves through whatever methods, whether someone is feminine or someone is masculine or someone is black or someone is white. If we continue to create these own divisions within our own community, we are no better than the ones discriminating against us. And it’s extremely important because we have to change the way that we think. We have to change our own minds within our own community, open our own minds before we can expect other people to open their minds to us.
Here’s the video of Nelson sharing his story:
Rangerboy
Thats not only with blacks, or whites. I live in Asia and there its the same: rice queens (non Asians liking Asians), potato (all that is non Asian, mostly caucasian), sticky rice ( Asians among themselves only). How many guys rejected me for not being Chinese or local and how many guys wanted me because I am of non Asian origin.
lordthanos
There is a lot of racism in the gay community but gays don’t like to admit that.
Ummmm Yeah
Well since Nelson only goes for white guys, like most black guys that complain about white guys that are only attracted to white guys, he obviously has the same interests as the first guy. Funny how the white guy is supposed to feel guilty about that, but the black guys gets away with it, isn’t it?
1898
I see this all the time. On the dating site OkCupid one of the questions they ask is “would you strongly prefer to date someone of your own race/color?” and there are so many guys who answer Yes to that question.
1898
@Ummmm Yeah: Where are you getting that from? I watched the video and I re-read the transcript and at no point did he say that he only dates white guys.
lordthanos
What are you talking about?@Ummmm Yeah:
Sweet Boy
Racism in the GLBT community…shocking !!!!…. deep inside we´re not that different from the hets…after all the gays are not that special
lordthanos
Exactly@Sweet Boy:
onthemark
Nelson has encountered a lot of shallow thinking from individual gay men. But let’s keep in mind that he hasn’t actually met the entire “gay community.” More and more, the term “gay community” becomes a form of self-inflicted gay-bashing.
@Sweet Boy: @lordthanos: I disagree somewhat. Are straight people doing better, as a group, on r@cial issues? No, they’re worse. Generally much, much worse!
Billy Budd
I’ve dated guys who had all the colours of the human spectrum: White Yellow Black and all colours in between. Some were awesome, some were not, but skin color had nothing to do with performance and loveliness.
Ok,Ok, the black guys tended to have bigger dicks and the yellow guys tended to have smaller dicks, but that did not make any difference!
lordthanos
based on what? gay people are not different on the race issue. @onthemark:
SportGuy
@lordthanos:
This is so very true! It’s hilarious that gays are so fired up about getting equal rights and such when they don’t even treat each other equally within our own community.
TrueWords
1. if you can not be friends (not having SEX sadly so many gay men equate this with friendship…the sex happens either before, after and/or during the course of friendship…do not act like you do not know what I am talking about) with someone based on their skin color, race, weight, etc. then there is something wrong with you…call it racism, bias, short-sighted, ignorant, etc…but it is lame and limiting.
2. If you do not want to have sex with someone who is Black, Asian, Hispanic or someone you do not find sexually appealing…it is not racism it is your preference; but watch how you express your preference…
3. If you do want to have sex with someone who is different than yourself say Black, Asian, Hispanic or someone you do find sexually appealing…it is not a denouncement of your race but still watch how you convey this like to the other person…be sure that it conveys that you can see the person as a PERSON and not as a ideology, sexual fetish, etc….sometimes saying nothing works wonders because they know that they are Black, Asian, Hispanic, etc and there is NO need for an announcement.
We all have preferences (a greater liking for one alternative over another or others) and prejudices (preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience)…but lastly SOME people have legitimate prejudices based on some extremely bad experiences that are steeped in reality for them…respect their past and do not counsel them.
onthemark
@lordthanos: Gay people TEND to be more open to interracial relationships than straight people are, for the following reasons:
– We’re almost always LESS concerned than straights are about how our own families would treat a partner of another race. We’ve already done the tough part there, which is coming out to our families as GAY. (It would be a rare parent who’d accept you totally for being gay, but freak out totally at your r@cial choice in a partner, although I suppose that occasionally happens!) By contrast, straights don’t come out as straight; the big hurdle for them would be family rejection of a partner of another race.
– Gays don’t have biological children with DNA from both gay parents. Most of us don’t have children at all. Therefore we lack straights’ usual worry about how interracial children might be mistreated by society. (Although it’s somewhat common for gay parents to adopt interracial children, even if the couple isn’t interracial themselves.) Again, straights have a bigger psychological hurdle here, and gays get some of the harder work out of the way just by being gay.
These are merely tendencies, but they are major factors.
Bauhaus
I’ve never understood racism. Hang-ups are a major turn-off. I like men from all walks of life, socially and sexually. Always have.
ChuckGG
I can see some of the reasons posted as justification for the racism label. However, it really comes down to who you are attracted to. I certainly have a type which I find attractive and some races I do not find at all attractive. Nice people? Sure. Want to jump in bed with them? No. I have women who are friends who I would not want to bed down. Does that make me a misogynist? I hope not.
craigbrew2
“He was like”, “I was like”, “And he goes” – Please stop writing like a 13 year old girl.
Maude
Racism raises its ugly head in every walk of life, and the sooner we all get use to it, the better off we will all be.
Like ‘beauty’, ‘ugly’ is in the eye of the beholder.
I am white.
I’ve ‘had’ white, black, yellow, and red American Indian.
Tho I prefer ‘white’, when I met each and every one of them, they were attractive, but maybe not so much in the morning.LOL
Point is, I don’t want to go to bed with everybody I meet, facial features can, and often still do turn my head toward and away.
If I don’t like the look of you, I don’t. If I do, I do.
And believe it or not, some don’t like the look of me.
ronsfo
Very true, he really nailed it. We need to throw ageism and elitism into the mix.
Gay Veteran
@onthemark: None of that changes anything. Okay in your opinion gays are more accepting. There’s still a problem with racism in the gay community… just listen to the experience of this MoC.
Wingfield
As a black man I agree with SOME of what he says but we’ve got to stop blaming and labeling people for what/who they are attracted to. None of us chose to be gay and none of us choose what physical features turn us on. when a guy dates someone who looks similar we say ewww they look like brothers and when someone dates someone completely different we (as a culture) stop and stare. I’ve learned you’ve got to spend your time focusing on the ones who ARE attracted to you, not obsessing over the ones who aren’t.
TrueWords
@Wingfield: THANK YOU!!!
Gay Veteran
@Maude: If your attraction is dictated by the color of a person’s skin that’s a problem– it doesn’t just come down to physical features. Why do you find certain physical features more aesthetically pleasing? The answer is not black and white. Due to the media and the teachings of family people have inherited prejudice(the term institutionalized racism comes to mind)… looking at the bigger picture this can also be linked to the recent murders(Eric Garner, Mike Brown, etc). People refuse to acknowledge the prejudice that has been ingrained in them.
Alan down in Florida
Let’s face it this is basically a bogus issue. It is all a question of attraction. We can’t explain it, it just is. There are more than enough of us in all shapes, sizes, colors, religions and any of a thousand other variables. To dismiss someone because of these variables is no one’s loss but the person who would judge another human being in such a shallow manner. I knew a guy who dumped his boyfriend because the bf didn’t have enough chest hair. That says more about him than the guy he dumped.
onthemark
@Gay Veteran: But that’s exactly my point. There IS no “gay community.”
I realize that ever since the invention of the Internet, everyone’s automatic response to any problem in the (non-existent) “gay community” is to write an article sternly lecturing the “gay community” regarding Problem X, then post it online, then sit back smugly to await results. Apparently the entire “gay community” is supposed to read the article and change its evil ways. Maybe you’ve seen miraculous benefits from this lunatic approach that I haven’t noticed in 20 years. But I doubt it.
This is how the very term “gay community” becomes a form of masochistic gay-bashing.
Nelson’s examples are all pretty bad, true, but they don’t add up to a community (fortunately!).
AlliterationAddict
I think that it’s a bit of a mixed bag. On one hand, I’m not going to set around lecturing people and demand that they have sex with me. Obviously, it’s everybody’s right to decide who they are or aren’t attracted to. But on the other hand, you can’t deny that it’s a little bit fishy how we deal with race when it comes to attraction. Ask any LGBT person of color, and they will tell you that they have far more trouble finding a partner than any white person will. The issue isn’t that there are a few people who happen to not find people of color attractive, it’s that pretty much nobody seems to find people of color attractive. And I just have difficulty buying that. I’ve met way too many gorgeous non-white men.
And besides. Let’s be honest with ourselves here. If tomorrow, suddenly everybody stopped finding white men attractive, we would never hear the end of it.
So where I find myself is in an awkward position. I think that it’s safe to say that people of color are treated very unfairly in the dating pool. On the other hand, I’m not completely sure what can be done about that. Like I said, it’s not like I’m going to demand that people date me if they aren’t interested. Basically, it seems like the best that people of color can do about this is sit around and say, ‘well, this sucks.’
jar
@Alan down in Florida: It is of course a truth that noone is entitled to your attraction or affection, but that does not mean that prejudices cannot operate in that selection process. For example, in this story, what is the motivation of the white guy to tell the author that he is not attracted to black men? He simply could have stated that he was not interested. And then to add that “one of my friends…” takes it even further. I don’t think it’s an irrational conclusion that this man has some issues with race. He felt comfortable dismissing this man on the basis of race, showing no respect for the person before him as a human being. When I’ve been approached by someone I’m not interested in, I have never felt the need to justify it by reference to their corporal person. What value is there in doing that?
jar
@onthemark: Your reasoning is faulty. It does not follow that if one accepts homosexuality one would accept interracial relationships. The acceptance of many families is still tied to demands that their gay family member not veer too far from accepted norms of behavior and/or dress, for example. The dynamic is not nearly as simplistic as you present it. Furthermore, homophobia and racism are two unrelated prejudices. The logical conclusion of your specious reasoning is that anyone who accepts gays and lesbians cannot be prejudiced against any other group because they accept gays and lesbians. Your conclusion rests upon this fallacy.
For the same reason, there is no basis for concluding that G&Ls are less concerned with how their families feel about race. There is just as much racism in the gay community as in any other. Being gay doesn’t make us better than any other group of humans. It is true that our struggle for equality may make us more empathic towards others similarly situated (I would argue it should make us more empathic in general), but real world experiences teach that there is no causal relationship between the two.
I agree with your statements about the “gay community.” I find the tendency these days to speak about a monolithic gay community, usually for the purpose of indicting all gay and lesbian people, immature and self-absorbed. There have always been many gay communities, some of which we participated in, while ignoring or avoiding others. The easiest example is the acceptance among us of all male and all female spaces. That was never a problem, as we accepted that even between gay men and lesbians, sometimes we want spaces for ourselves. I never found anything wrong with this.
I find the juxtaposition between your two comments interesting. In the first, you attempt to posit broad principles that apply to us as a group (less racism) while later excoriating the notion of a monolithic gay community against which one can make claims. Isn’t there a logical inconsistency between your two points?
TrueWords
My friend Todd told me the following once and I found it hilarious:
If you are White and date a Black man you are a bottom; the Black man is the top.
If you are White and date an Asian man you are a top; the Asian is the bottom.
If you are White and date an Hispanic man you are both versatile.
TrueWords
Too many gay men base their friendships on sexual attraction; that is really the problem that I have seen over the years and many gay men (but not lesbians) are UNABLE to switch gears or turn it off…that is real shame…for some if they do not see themselves having sex with the person then NO friendship can occur.
ppp111
@ChuckGG:
Thank you! Thank you! I believe we shouldn’t have to apologize to whom we’re attracted to. The gay community is made of a myriad of colors. Just because some guy prefers to date other white guys doesn’t mean you don’t have a chance with anybody. I also like you analogy with women: just because we don’t sleep with women doesn’t make us sexists. If anything, straight men treat women much, MUCH worse yet we wonder why straight women put up with them.
Mr C
Ummm Racism is a big part of the Gay Community. How you ask? Well 2 things that occurred this year and it showed how very much we can show hate concerning race!
Trayvon Martn and George Zimmerman
Michael Brown and Darren Wilson
Many white gays sided with Zimmerman and Wilson for reason that many white Americans felt about Trayvon and Michael. We all know what that was.
Yeah racism is here!
Charli Girl
I disagree, I think the study will show that there is FAR LESS racism, sexism in our community! I know it’s there, just not as prevelant as the het world is all….
onthemark
@jar: You’re making the same contradiction. In your second paragraph you use the term gay community un-ironically, without quotation marks. And in your third paragraph you agree with me that the “gay community” doesn’t really exist. I guess it’s a tough little term to stamp out, isn’t it? 🙂
Regarding the family stuff, I was merely referring to tendencies, and I don’t claim that they’re anything but tendencies, as compared to heteros, for the reasons I said.
As for your statement that “there is no basis for concluding that G&Ls are less concerned with how their families feel about race” – ugh. Maybe it’s a generational thing (I’m over 50) but I sense in your post that mawkish tendency toward family-worship among the younger generation which, to my generation, is quite nauseating. (WTF is going on with that: is it the co-signing on all the student loans, so young gay people feel obligated to kiss their parents’ asses indefinitely?) I sincerely hope that G&Ls are overall much LESS concerned with what our families think, not only about race, but about literally anything!
onthemark
@Charli Girl: Totally agree with you!
money718
Who cares, Nelson. So in order for “the gay community” to come together, we all must be attracted to one another? What a dummy.
Xzamilio
@ppp111: Of course not sleeping with women doesn’t make you sexist… it makes you GAY!!! What a stupid analogy
Chris
I agree with everyone who says that there are issues with “-ism”s in the “gay community” just as there are everywhere. However, I see those problems as entailing social interactions: people who refuse to hire someone based on extraneous “-ist” considerations; or to judge another’s performance based on on irrelevant “-ist” criteria; or….
Also, I believe that everyone who is an “-ist” has prejudices against folk in that population of humans.
However, I do not think every example of prejudice is necessarily “-ist.” I think of friendships and the people we date as non-ist examples of prejudice and conversely of attraction. In both those highly-personal arenas, we use prejudices to sort out who we feel/think/etc. we are likely to get along with or to strike a deeper bond with.
I have always tried to be scrupulously fair on social matters and when judging employees’ performances, I have always checked myself against what another supervisor says about the same employee. And, I have hired people across a wide range of backgrounds.
But also, I admit to having had limited circles of friends that, as I’ve met more and more people over the years, have expanded based on my learning that I share a lot in common with more people than I ever thought possible.
As far as dating, however, I continue to be more drawn by my own preferences. Just as some people have rejected going out with me for things like my having hair growing out of my ear (it happens to everyone if you get old enough!) or not being dressed in a particular manner or not being tanned enough or being too tanned (yes, both in the same week!) or being overweight or not scruffy enough, I have my own preferences and prejudices. And I freely admit to being a sucker for piercing eyes (of any color) wearing glasses and for someone who is taller than I am. Does that make me “-ist” against shorter people and/or those whose eyes don’t make them look like lovable geeks? Well, so be it; tell that to my knees when they get weak.
I have learned that whoever said you don’t need to explain yourself is right. A simple, “no thanks” does it. Honestly, the explanations I’ve gotten are sort of lame. But then, don’t press the other person into giving you an explanation: you might not like it.
And I agree with so many people here who say that sometimes, the personal is just that – personal.
Xzamilio
@ChuckGG: Are you gay? Then why would you want to jump into bed with any of your women friends? If you’re excluding entire races, then it is clear your “preferences” are tied to generalizations about an entire spectrum of people that is completely devoid of any substantial reasoning, and you can have that, but don’t try to clean it up by calling it “preferences”. Embrace your prejudices and accept that you have no actual justification for it instead of making false analogies about being a gay man who won’t sleep with women.
Xzamilio
@Chris: Yay!!! Congratulations on missing the point completely. Put all those characteristics you find attractive on someone of color… if you still wouldn’t date that person, then therein lies the problem. I’m not even commenting on this as some bitter black man because honestly, someone who’s openly prejudiced or makes it known, I just leave that person alone because it’s not that serious to me, personally… but what I don’t like is when people attempt to justify by using analogies that fall flat of even coming close to justifying it. Because if “skin color” falls into a preference, it says something… and it’s not good.
With the superficial image that is placed on mainstream gay media (especially this site), why are people trying to dismiss racism in the gay community? Of course, you’re not going to change it anytime soon, but people sure do hate when you hold a mirror up to their shortcomings
odawg
@lordthanos: You are absolutely correct. Many gay men mistakenly think because they are members of a minority group this naturally engenders more open-mindedness. Nothing can be further from the truth.
odawg
@Chris: YAWN!
odawg
@Xzamilio: Well said!
jwtraveler
I once heard a guy complain that other men weren’t interested in him because he was “a longhair”, meaning that he HAD long hair. He presented this as a kind of discrimination. My response was that ‘long hair’ is not an identity, it’s a hairstyle. If you’re bothered by the reactions of other men, get a haircut or look for other “longhairs” to date.
Obviously race is a more serious and pervasive social issue, but sexual attraction is very complicated. We can’t (Michael Jackson notwithstanding) change our skin color, nor should we. But we should recognize that every personal encounter, especially potentially sexual ones, involves objectification on the basis of physical characteristics. It’s called prejudice. We ALL do it? How many times have you heard the question “What’s your type?” What that means is “Which physical characteristics do you use to fetishize your sexual attractions?” It could be height, weight, body hair, muscular build, age, hair or skin color. Of course, where skin color is involved racism is always in play. But to tell someone that they should or shouldn’t be attracted to someone because of that person’s race is unreasonable.
It’s interesting that in Nelson’s story, he didn’t say that the white man said he wasn’t attracted to black men; he said he didn’t DATE black men. That does sound a little more like racism. But I doubt that that is any more prevalent in the ‘gay community.’
I will say that of all ways that racism takes form in this society, this seems like one of the least harmful. No one is obligated to feel sexually attracted to anyone else. We are, however, obligated to treat everyone with equal respect and to follow the laws against discrimination.
odawg
@ChuckGG: A gay man not wanting to sleep with women is NOT the same as excluding an entire group of men based on race and calling it “personal preference”.
Franklin
I call BS on this belief that you can’t help what you like. Society has a large influence on what you are attracted to as gay men, and here why I believe that. I had the experience of living in Europe when I was in the Army, and let me tell you, European men had absolutely no problem what so ever in dating interracially. If you were hot, you were hot in their eyes. In fact, whereas I would get many a one or two responses on my grinder in America, in Europe the response was so overwhelming that could not keep up answering messages. I was literally beating them way with a stick, and it wasn’t just older men hitting me up. I had young men ranging the spectrum from tall Nordic models to swarthy Spaniard and Greeks. In my opinion, this is because Europeans don’t have the history we have here in America, therefore aren’t as likely to have their perception of people of color shaped by negative stereotypes such as the ones that are prevalent in the states.
marcuswingspan
I’m not naïve by any means. It’s just too convenient to pretend that this is acceptable behavior or doesn’t include me. Some bars in this joint ask for 3 pcs. of ID from black men and women where 1 suffices for almost everyone else. The longer we deny or minimize this issue of racism in the Queer community, the more we accept it in our friends without comment, is the time we cease to be human, ‘cuz that’s the race we are… human. It is disgusting that some people overcome internalized homophobia and that of our culture, only to find that they are not good enough or rejected once again because they are the “wrong” color. People come in all shapes and sizes, color and other personal attributes, we be sissies and butch; and any who are missing and/or absent from our company; are the absence of our own souls. We are a people and that’s all. Maybe the Queer community does perpetuate the flaws of the het community; but we can be better than that, and we must be better than that, or accept that we are the monster we ran from.
jar
@onthemark: Context matters. In the first reference I think it is clear I am simply identifying all gay and lesbian people; I chose the term gay community as a shorthand. Apparently, that was confusing. I should have just said, “among gay men and lesbians.”
As for family, it is not a generational thing. We are roughly the same age. And I don’t know how you jump to the inference that I place any value on what the family thinks. You introduced the notion that parents who accept their gay family members would be unconcerned about interracial relationships. I merely pointed out that there is no basis for this conclusion. I would think a man of your years has had enough experience to find such a claim silly at best. Apparently, not.
jwtraveler
@Franklin: Did it ever occur to you that they were into you BECAUSE you’re black. As a black man, you’re a novelty, you’re exotic, a fetish. I wonder if you visited France or England, which have the highest black populations in Europe and if you had the same response there. When I visited Paris a few years ago, I was surprised that I saw almost no black men in the gay bars, baths and sex clubs despite the substantial black population in Paris. At one bar/sex club the only black man was American. Fetishizing people based on their race is not the opposite of racism; it’s a slightly less offensive form of it.
Franklin
@jwtraveler: Yes I have been there, and from what I’ve seen it was less to do with race and more country of origin, in the they were more interested in my being American and black. Even African’s in the UK and France were more interested in you if you were American.
Franklin
@jwtraveler:Yes I have been there, and from what I’ve seen it was less to do with race and more country of origin, in that they were more interested in my being American and black. Even Africans in the UK and France were more interested in you if you were American. It’s much the same way Australians, Brits, and the like are more popular in the US.
onthemark
@jar: You certainly enjoy putting words in my mouth. I never claimed they’d be totally “unconcerned” about interracial relationships. Again, again, again… I merely said that families who’ve already accepted gay kids would TEND… tend, tend, tend (look it up in the dictionary please!) to be relatively LESS concerned about race compared to the families of heterosexual children.
This seems to me so obvious and so uncontroversial, even mundane, that I don’t get why you are objecting to it at all, never mind so strenuously.
jwtraveler
@jwtraveler: Error correction: “nearly HALF the Brazilian population is black…”
I wish Queerty had an ‘edit’ button.
Gigi Gee
Racism exists in every community. Period. Is it more prevalent in the gay community? Maybe. Maybe not. It would be almost impossible to know for sure. Just don’t deny that it exists.
Franklin
Again, you’re talking about having visited there. I LIVED there for years and that was plenty of time to get a big picture of the culture at large. Look, I know Europe has it’s own issues with racism. In fact there is a far right political wave sweeping through Europe right now. However, and it’s a shame to admit this, as a black person I feel like I get treated better abroad then I do in my own home country. People aren’t as afraid of you over there. They aren’t clicking the car door locks shut, clutching their purses tighter, or crossing to the other side of the street as you walk by (Yes, these are things that still happen even in 2015).
Joetx
@Gay Veteran: Exactly. Our “preferences” are NOT formed in a vacuum. TV, movies, magazines, etc. tell us what is attractive & what is not. And the people in charge of TV, movies, magazines, etc. have their own biases & prejudices, which only get perpetuated through their conduits of power.
Unfortunately, too many people refuse to acknowledge this b/c it would require an examination of one’s own biases & prejudices.
tdh1980
The fact of the matter is that human beings aren’t manufactured on an assembly line in a plant like goods to be bought and sold, with every product made to be exactly like the ones before and after it. Therefore, saying that you don’t find black men attractive, for instance, is not akin to saying that you don’t like a Snickers bar. It’s saying that despite the diversity present in an ethnicity of men — height, weight, body type, complexion, hair texture, eye color, hairiness, etc. — you are more than willing to dismiss them in their entirety simply because of their race. That is the very definition of racism. We don’t form our “preferences” for certain physical features in a vacuum. Though some of them may be attributed to nature, they by and large are informed by social factors and ingrained into us by the dominant cultural forces in society. Consequently, it’s no surprise that white men are the most sought-after group in the gay community for romantic and sexual pairings — this supported by research. Let’s not pretend that we absolutely can’t help these “preferences.”
Blackceo
Oh my god I have so much I want to say on this subject but I’m still a little hungover and have way too much i want to say. First, I have to thank Queerty for this article because it sparked a much needed conversation on how the gay community needs to own it’s issues with racism and discrimination. Second,
@tdh1980:
@Joetx:
Yes and Yes!!!!! Well stated!!! Happy New Year everyone.
jonasalden
@1898: I was thinking the same thing! I think Ummm Yeah thinks Nelson only dates white guys because his friend said something to that effect.
odawg
@jonasalden: I agree that Nelson has some internalized issues around race that he himself needs to deal with.
tdh1980
Additionally, it is past time that we return to the original meaning of the word “preference,” which is an affinity for one thing over another yet not necessarily to the exclusion of everything else. I prefer Pepsi to Coke, but when I go to a restaurant that only serves Coca-Cola products, and I’m really in the mood for a soda, I will gladly drink a Diet Coke. One can prefer one race of people as romantic or sexual interests and still consider and explore the options that are not his first choice.
cflekken
The main point here isn’t about racism, it’s about attraction. Period. I’m not white and I’ve just come to accept the fact that guys won’t be attracted to me, at face value, because of my race. But, to me, that’s not racism. That’s attraction. Why is racism and non-attraction mutually inclusive, or non-racism and attraction mutually inclusive. Doesn’t make much sense to me, really. If I am gay and not attracted to women does that make me misogynist? Not at all.
This happens all the time in the straight world, but rarely do people call is racism. Why is there a difference?
And can he say “like” any more times?
stanhope
@1898: There are black guys who protest about the racism in the gay community when really they really complaining that some white guys won’t date them. These people are not legitimate. The charge of racism in the gay community is indeed legitimate and it occurs on both sides. It is way too complex to discuss in this forum. Some whites will only date black guys who are educated and have attained a certain economic status. Some whites won’t date blacks no matter what. Some whites will only date the dark hood types. Some whites will only ‘date” blacks under cover. Some blacks won’t date outside their race and get very pissed at blacks who do. I have dated black, white, brown and yellow. They can be cultural differences [keyword: can] and I love it. Bottom line, I don’t give a shyt what other people do. If someone won’t date me because of my race, they are too ignorant to attract me in the first place. Would I f#ck them…why not if I like the way they look…date them…hell no.
LadyL
@Franklin: Excellent point. There is still so much social/cultural/political baggage between Black and White in the U.S., which often makes it hard for us to see each other as fellow human beings. This young man was confronted by the insult of being told his race disqualified him as a potential romantic partner on the one hand; on the other, he was criticized by a friend and fellow African-American for dating a white man.
There resides within the African-American community a great deal of racial insecurity. (As expressed by his closeted friend’s resentment: “What, do you think you’re too good for your own race?”) And I can’t help but be curious as to how much his friend’s closeted existence influences his racial worldview.
And what is motivating the white guy’s refusal to consider black men–any and all black men–as romantic partners? He’s under absolutely no obligation to date people who don’t interest him, of course… but that’s an awfully huge spectrum of masculinity to reject outright. As a group, black gay men are as varied in their coloring, physical features, politics, educational background, sartorial sense, and social outlook as any other. Really? Not one of these men would make an acceptable partner?
Did he grow up in a family and community in which blacks were only The Help? Did he date a black man once and the reactions of both sets of family and friends was so overwhelmingly negative that he ultimately decided it wasn’t worth the grief?
Xzamilio
@cflekken: Again with that stupid analogy? I’m not even saying I disagree with you on your initial statements (I do, though), but seriously? Not being attracted to women makes you gay… that has nothing to do with misogyny, so why do you all keep posing this fallacious counterargument? Being a guy who thinks women should be subservient or not valuing their opinions or inputs or contributions? THAT makes you misogynistic, and you can be gay or straight and be a misogynist. So try again.
LadyL
I’m sort of half-way there with those here who argue that it’s all a matter of attraction, period. I would agree that it’s important to allow each other the right to our personal feelings–romantic attraction especially can be such a complex and mysterious thing.
Still… I’m not convinced generations of racial conflict and mutual suspicion among American blacks and whites can be completely dismissed as irrelevant.
@cflekken: Yeah, I don’t think I can agree that straight people aren’t grappling with this same issue. I’m more inclined to agree with those who argue that it’s an even more pronounced problem among black and white hets.
Also, I’m not getting the comparison some are making here regarding lack of sexual attraction to women and sexual attraction or lack thereof among same-sex races. I agree that a gay man not being attracted to a woman is not an expression of misogyny; he’s hard-wired a certain way is all.
But by the time we are teenagers, American whites and blacks have been socialized in all sorts of ways to view each other through a certain lens, and that can directly affect which dating pools we feel comfortable entering and which ones we steer clear of.
audo_r
I believe this all comes down to attraction and RESPECTFULLY communicating that attraction. As a black gay man, I’ve had many white guys say things like “I don’t date black men” and “thanks, but I’d rather date someone who looks like me.” I’ve also seen the profiles with the “no blacks” comment. The problem, with people who make those comments, is NOT that they are not usually attracted to black men, but that the manner in which it is communicated is not respectful. The words, “I don’t date black guys. They’re not my type”, as noted in the article, implies that there is only ONE type of black guy, and you won’t date that “type”. Obviously, there is more than one type of black guy. So to say “they’re not my type” has racial overtones, that are likely based on stereotypes.
On the other hand, if the guy had just said, “you’re very sweet and nice, but I’m just not attracted to you in that way,” or much more simply, “I’m not interested,” I think things would have gone over better. Even if you’re typically not into guys of a certain race, I personally think it’s better to treat people as individuals and not groups. I’m black, and I don’t find myself attracted to a lot of other black men. However, I was open to it, and prior to marrying my husband, I dated 2 black guys. This goes for Asians as well. Generally, I just don’t see many whom I personally find attractive. However, every now and then, I do see an Asian guy, and think, “Wow. He’s attractive.”
So in short, I think it’s fine if people tend to be attracted to one race over another. You like what you like. You just have to be respectful in how you communicate that attraction to people.
jultoe
Nelson is not obviously gay,, but obviously black, youthful, and male. Dating is about being attracted to the obvious and becoming interested enough to go deeper. That may entail exploring the first impression or going beyond it. The motivation is preference and priority, seated in the seekers. If they are corresponding, a positive and vibrant relationship develops. These are personal. In being gay, one’s preference for one’s gender is not considered sexist, so free of social stigma, neither is a preference for types by color, age, or style, a character of offense, but of curiosity. Racism and Sexism are social principles, not personal, that resound in personal trauma, not mere confusion. Much avoidance on the personal level is to avoid the socially engendered trauma. Hence, Nelson’s friend “in the closet” (about being gay. Still closets may conceal cross-racial interests, adulterous interests, bondages, etcetera, that persons don’t want socially exposed).
mgkbus
I wrote about just this subject in the Gay Community News in 1982. I am black and gay and I have nothing in common with most black people, so I get negative reinforcement from that community. I didn’t have an “urban” upbringing. We had money, houses, I went to private schools and got a good education. But I wasn’t “black” enough for the black community and so I have barely dated men of colour. I find all men attractive, regardless of ethnic background. The gay “community” that I worked in and with, were a loving bunch of real folks and I have NEVER had a problem with prejudice. But then, I have always treated everyone equally and expect to treated the same way. If someone doesn’t treat me with respect (ie does “fetishize” me) they are shown the door.
Also, I in in the PNW which makes a huge difference as to how people treat eachother.
Blackceo
@audo_r:
I don’t think it ALL comes down to attraction because as was said, the diversity that exists among Black men and some guy saying “Black guys aren’t my type” always has me giving major side eye. Other than that, I agree with all of what you said. Of course we have preferences. I’m Black and Latino and while I prefer Black and Latino men physically and for relationships, there are beautiful men among every race and ethnicity. A great deal of it I believe also has to do with exposure. I been traveling since I was in diapers so being exposed to all different kinds of people in various countries I think also helped me in my sense of fineness existing in every background. I also have friends of many different backgrounds, whereas White men Sure, I’m more attracted to certain groups and less so to others but cute is cute and I will just speak for myself and appreciate the fact I have explored all the flavors there are.
White men are also the least likely to date outside their race. A recent study came out about how something like 75% of Whites have social networks that are entirely White. Like really?!!! Ok. I actually find that sad and feel sorry for those kinds of people who don’t want to venture out of their homogenous social circles. For me, my BEST friend is White. I’ve known him since primary school. I call him my brother from another mother and he says the same about me. I NEVER felt anything but welcoming from his family and siblings and our families still vacation together. In school, my lunch table was called the Rainbow Coalition table cuz it was Black, White, Asian, Latino, Indian, Arab. I love celebrating my other friend’s religious holidays different from my own and understanding more about their culture and customs and traveling with them to their ancestral countries. That exposure early on in my childhood is certainly one of the reasons I am so open to attraction of those outside of my cultural background. Not everyone is that fortunate though and that goes for all backgrounds who only have friends of the same culture. Some of it can’t be helped. If you grew up in any area where you were the predominant culture and didn’t get to travel and went to schools where it was also people who looked like you, it’s hard to not continue that into adulthood.
For this article, don’t want some guys preference to be confused with racism, but there are obviously certain preferences that stem from you being a racis*t.
Blackceo
@mgkbus:
Oh man I bet we could exchange journals of our upbringings and they be very similar.
audo_r
@Blackceo: Also, with your regard to where people grew up, I grew up in Detroit in a pre-dominantely black area and went to almost all-black schools. For me, that did not continue into adulthood – I’m still more frequently attracted to white guys. My husband, who is white, grew up in the suburbs of Chicago in an all-white small town, and he is mostly attracted to black guys.
Random
I’m mixed race – half black and half white – and I have a profile on a porn site. Now I get a lot of messages from men in the States(I’m in the UK) who want me to play out the role of the hypermasculine, dominant, well endowed, black male. This to me strongly suggests that racial stereotyping is still a huge issue in the USA to a much larger extent than in Europe. And as someone else has said, being fetishised is really just another form of racism as it denies the person any individuality and fixates purely on skin colour.
I also happen to be adopted and was raised in a predominantly white family, so I do feel as if I’ve got more of an insight into this issue than most. It seems pretty obvious to me that our ‘preferences’, far from being innate, are shaped by the culture around us, and that’s very much molded by those who hold the reigns of power i.e white people.
Zekester
I don’t understand why it’s OK to make blanket statements about racism in the gay community but the moment anyone mentions homophobia in the black community all hell breaks loose and people are made to feel that the topic is taboo. I believe we should have honest discussions about ALL bigotry in ALL communities and stop making white gay men the only minority community that it’s OK to stereotype and condemn.
mgkbus
@Zekester: Yes, I agree with you that all bigotry should be addressed. The black religious community continues to demonise homosexuality as a “white” disease. I was told this many years ago and it still seems true. The black church has powerful hold over its adherents and preaches hate and bigotry. It is so ingrained in the culture, because of this, that many black people have a very skewed view of homosexuality. I am not defending them, this is they’ve come to believe. I will never defend bigotry. I am explaining a fact.
Cagnazzo82
@Zekester: Every single white president in the history of the US has been against gay marriage. And the only black president we’ve ever had was the first to be for gay marriage. And for gay rights in general if you include repealing DADT and passing the Matthew Shephard law.
Point i’m making is ‘homophobia’ in the black community is a misnomer because what you’re really seeing is a mirror image of homophobia in all communities. You can’t tackle it by splitting it off and compartmentalizing it.
But this is somewhat aside from the topic at hand.
All I’ll say on this topic is lesbians have far less hangups in terms of race compared to gay men. For a myriad of reasons to lengthy for me to bother getting into in just one post.
ajgregor
Why is it wrong for people to have preferences? It would be terrible if the guy said because you’re black you don’t deserve rights, dignity, respect. Or I won’t be a friend or acquaintance because you’re black – that would be wrong. Dude just mad that he was feeling someone and they didn’t like his ass – his black ass. And for the record I’m black and happen to date anyone of any color as long as they sexy but I guess that makes me something that will inspire an article too smh.
People stop being so damn sensitive. Dating and romance is way different than basic human interaction or even friendship. People have perferences and that will include height, weight, skin color, skin tone, education, top or bottom, ethnicity, income, and several other things. If they ain’t feeling you get over it and move on – ugh!
jar
@onthemark: Not at all. I was responding to your words: “It would be a rare parent who’d accept you totally for being gay, but freak out totally at your r@cial choice in a partner, although I suppose that occasionally happens!” That expresses more than a mere tendency.
tdh1980
@Zekester: Oh, please. Every time there is any conversation about white gay racism the knee-jerk reaction by some is always, “What about black homophobia?” — as if one excuses or justifies the other. Of course, that smoke screen always ignores the likes of the largely white Catholic faith, members of the Westboro Baptist Church, and countless white televangelists and mega-church pastors who regularly spew anti-gay rhetoric. Yes, the phobias and “-isms” come in various shapes and forms, but I think it’s disingenuous to paint homophobia as so specific to the black community. In the context of a discussion like this it is an egregious deflection of the issue that careens into the counterproductive.
Blackceo
@audo_r:
Sure. It’s not black and white (no pun intended). I wasn’t saying that was the only factor in my diverse social network and dating history, but I believe it was one of the factors for me. I think we can agree your situation with your husband is more so the exception. Typically, that’s not how it goes.
@Random:
Mmm hmmm. Some of my Black friends talk about that whole fetish “Mandingo” fantasy they get. I would cuss a bitch out so bad if I got approached like that. I’m not here for your “taboo” fantasies.
@Zekester:
What blanket statements have been made? Yeah, the Black community is notoriously homophobic, as are others. But ummm you claim there is this bashing of white gay men. Have you seen the blanket stereotypical comments and racial overtones about Black people on this site??? Boy, bye!!!
Blackceo
@tdh1980:
http://giphy.com/gifs/agree-amen-yes-u8msY8V5ZdGlW
Xzamilio
@ajgregor: You prefer someone who is tall? There are tall people of EVERY race? You prefer someone skinny or with some more meat on them? In every race. You prefer someone educated. Again, in EVERY race. But then you try to slyly sneak “skin color and skin tone” in there as if those carry the same weight… they don’t. Like I said to another commenter here, if every characteristic you described was packaged in a person of color, and you STILL wouldn’t talk to them, then there is clearly some disingenuous sentiments going on there.
It WOULD be terrible if someone said they don’t think we should have rights as people of color, but it would ALSO be bad if they didn’t date someone simply because they were black, or white, or hispanic, or Asian. I don’t get why people think they can make false analogies or make false comparisons. Hell, there are men that think women shouldn’t be allowed to vote, but they don’t think women should get raped. Does that make the former sentiment better because they don’t invoke the latter?
Get real. Have your prejudices but at least have the balls to admit it and stop trying to sugarcoat ignorance.
Franklin
Stereotypes people. It’s all about negative racial stereotypes. Whether people choose to admit it or not, the truth is in the United States people harbor a lot of biased ideas about people of color, and that sometimes includes other people of color. It’s not hard to understand where this comes from if you take a second and look around at dynamics in play with the dominant culture. One person in a comment above mentioned how he was white and grew up in a black neighborhood, yet still ended up attracted to white men. I’m assuming this was said to prove that preference is ingrained. However, I feel as if that is not a entirely fair comparison to make. To make a more compelling case, he’d have to have grown up in an environment were the black people around him had all the money, status, power, and opportunity… where every story he was read as a child were written with beautiful black princesses and handsome black princes… where he went to school that taught the history and achievements of black people every day expect one month out of the year… where he grew up his whole life seeing magazines and television shows made up of mostly black faces being held up as the most beautiful and sought after… if he saw that and conversely saw white faces much like his own often marginalized, othered, only considered when thinking of bringing diversity, and negatively stereotyped as poor, lazy, shiftless, and violent. If he went through all that, and still came out the other end feeling the same way, maybe I’d be inclined to believe attraction is ingrained.
o.codone
We’re no better than the one’s who are discriminating against us”. The hatred in the gay community against Christians is nothing but self loathing, and self destructive (what? a self destructive gay person? are you kidding?). After I discovered Queerty I became aware that there is nothing but intolerance and hatred of Christians from the gay community. Much of it is expressed on these pages. And some of that hatred is expressed with the most vociferous hatred that i have ever heard. Believe it or not, there are plenty of gay Christians. So, let’s go ahead, bash our gay christian brothers, make fun of them, ridicule them, mock them. Let’s stop attacking gay christians, it really doesn’t advance the gay agenda at all, it tears it down.
edwardnvirginia
Interesting here that many commenters override the claim of racism (and we might also say, ageism, classism, etc) by citing ‘attraction’ as if if attraction were some right! – given by God, or given in the Constitution. Even the Declaration of Independence that claims a God-given right to ‘pursuit of happiness’ calls it a ‘pursuit’. In other words, happiness is a pursuit: whether in life, in work, in sex. Just as the Declaration does not imagine liberty is something that ‘just happens in a instant’, it does not imagine that happiness ‘just happens’: it is a pursuit. And, is a social construction of rights that YOU have in a society where YOU ALSO RESPECT the rights of all others in society. The claim that ‘my attractions make me a bigot’ are lazy. There is in fact s growing scientific literature about ‘attraction’ (some notes are below). The weight of current evidence suggests that some instant responses arise from areas of the brain that we know a little, or almost nothing about; but the evidence also shows impacts of those instantaneous attractions, which include giving away unearned privilege and power. It is obvious that Queerty fans these unearned privileges and powers by unrelenting ‘praise’ of certain bodies, certain faces, and certain attitudes or privilege and power. Well that is ok, since apparently many Queerty readers have evidence of how harmful giving away unearned power and privilege can be (judging from the stories of being infected, robbed, beaten up, cheated, raped, mistreated, abused, etc by ‘beautiful’ queers. Perhaps a new year’s pledge – among others – would be ‘I won’t give away privilege and power – or spend my money and time – on queers who haven’t earned my money, time, or praise’. We might be happier in our pursuit of happiness.
Some notes on scientific findings about ‘attraction’:
According to research in the Journal of Neuropsychologia, this primitive form of messaging imparts its influence on the subconscious mind. When volunteers were asked to judge the ages of beautiful women, their pleasure centers in their brains were stimulated, but when asked to judge their beauty, their pleasure centers were under-stimulated. In other words if you have to consciously think or judge whether or not someone is beautiful— you don’t receive as much pleasure as when you subconsciously evaluate beauty.
Although we may fight and reject these instincts as shallow, we can’t help it. Unfortunately most of us are unaware of the subconscious clues we— as well as others— are constantly emitting. Better to recognize, understand and manage them then to dismiss and damn them. Studies featured in journals such as Psychological Science, Proceedings of Biology Science and Archives of Sexual Behaviors have confirmed that certain fertility boosting physical characteristics in women— such as facial symmetry, youthfulness, ideal waist-to-hip ratio, long hair and odor— are key primal elements to creating a positive first impression.
In men, signs of virility such as a large chest, jutting jaw and powerful profile are attention grabbing. In fact, in two studies featured in Behavior Brian Science and AM J of Sociology Journals, evaluating West Point cadets followed over a 50-year period revealed that the rank achieved in the military can be correlated to facial features of dominance.
Similarly the financial success of the top and bottom 25 companies in the Fortune 1000 can be correlated to the dominant masculinizing facial features of the CEO. Like it or not, both sexes have a visceral reaction to these fertile traits.
But beauty is not by itself what attracts us. There is something much more vibrant, meaningful and effective that brings people together whether it is for romantic, social or professional needs. Beauty and attraction are very distinct entities. While beauty is raw, primitive attraction is dynamic and advanced. And beauty is just one parcel of what makes a person attractive. From hair to smell to posture, expression, voice and more – attractiveness is a composite that goes way beyond the surface. By fully understanding the vast and complex array of influences which are packed into those 100 milliseconds we have to make a first impression, we are able to master its outcome. The sexiest person in the room is not necessarily the one who is objectively the most symmetrical or physically perfect. It is the person who projects self-confidence and happiness. Yes, cosmetics, hairstyles and medical treatments can physically modify the face and body to achieve an idealized form.
But it is through an ability to improve self-esteem that an individual can alter appearances and actions to create a better first impression. And self-esteem is enhanced differently for each. As the well-known notion —confirmed in a study out of the University of Oregon— goes, the beautiful are granted certain societal advantages. For every point on a scale of 1-11 that a female is ranked more beautiful, she make 50 cents more money, but for every point she ranks herself higher on that same scale she makes 86 cents. Therefore this study supports that a woman is likely to make 70 percent more money if she thinks she is beautiful, rather than if she is objectively considered beautiful by other’s standards. It is those who think they are beautiful that actually gain the most benefits.
Chris
@Xzamilio: I did not miss the point. I disagree with labeling things that fall into the personal sphere — and dating is the most personal one that there is — any kind of ‘ism. My point is that for things like dating skin color is a legitimate preference to have; it may entail prejudice, but not racism.
Racism involves social obligations – work, voting rights, access to medical care, and stuff like that. Candidly, I am more worried about what needs to be accomplished in that sphere of life than about who dates whom.
jd2222248
I hope Queerty is taking note! Queerty should do a survey about this topic; since many users have commented.
.
VERY interesting topic!
Daniel-Reader
Freckled people can’t win – having every skin tone imaginable. A lot of you monotones are nuts, using the gift of sight to discriminate. May you go blind to find wisdom.
onthemark
@jar: Oh Jesus Fucking Christ. OK, how’s this – I didn’t go far enough, it’s way more than a tendency, it’s statistically a FACT in the 2010 Census.
“Gay Couples More Likely To Be Interracial”:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/26/gay-couples-interracial-interethnic-2010-census_n_1456613.html
The reasons for this are probably what I surmised at the beginning: gays not worrying about biological interracial children in the same way hets do, and gays having already done the work of coming out to their own parents.
As for my statement that you still mysteriously object to… um… maybe there’s a large subset of gays who really don’t give a shit what their parents think? Compared to hets at least? You seem to have an agenda here but I can’t figure what your objection is.
Celtic
Racism and color discrimination are universal behaviors. I have heard stories about how “ginger” guys (redheads) are bullied because they are so “different”. I also know from personal experience how blacks resent whites dating their men or women more than other way around. I have close friends, while men with black wives and interracial children who face a huge amount of resentment among blacks; not so much among whites. Gays are no different from mainstream society. We have our quirks, our subset of “values and likes”. The race or ethnicity of a man really means little to me if he is attractive. However, I cannot stand or tolerate girlie men, effeminate men or “Nancy boys”. So, there you have it! I have my own subset of biases. Blacks and Latinos have the rep of being far more passionate than whites. I’ll go for the passion. YEAH!
Arcamenel
@Celtic: A black teenager was killed and and left hanging from a jungle set because he was dating a white woman. There may be some resentment on our end but white literally kill black men for dating white women so I don’t know where you got the idea that whites don’t care.
Celtic
@Arcamenel: Obviously you did NOT read what I wrote.
Tackle
It seems that some on here are confused by and do not understand the difference between “preference” and “prejudice.” Not dating men 5’8 and under, with facial hair or size 13 shoe is a preference. Because you excluding everyone: regardless of race/culture/ethnicity. However, when it is stated that I do not date (example) Black guys. That is a prejudice. Because not all Black guys look alike. Blacks are one of the most varied groups, in terms of skin complexion, hair texture, facial features, eye color, education, acts/mannerisms.
And this prejudice that many wish to pass of as a preference has it’s roots and seeds in r@cism. And this so-called preference is not Innocuous. What many do not realize, is that we cannot just turn it on and off. What people find sexually attractive, appealing, and desirable enough as date-mates and bed-mates , they will find the same out of the bedroom and not necessarily as dating partners. That’s why we have this whole phenomenon in the US gay community of gays befriending and developing close friendships with guys they find sexually desirable. When people limit themselves to a certain type, they are/will be more inclined to be, nice, kind, helpful, courteous, forgiving and do something simple as smile more to what they find appealing.
We can flip this and the opposite will manifest itself. When people have a vast array of people they find attractive: are not so limited and stuck on a type, they will be kinder, helpful, courteous, forgiving and smile more to MANY more people. And you can see how this so-called preference can play out if they are in a position of power that has to do with hiring, promotion, housing/rental and even curtsy or greeting clerk…
All that being said, It would be interesting to know if Nelson himself is open to all types of men, or does he only date or prefer White men. I never heard him say that he himself prefers all types, or that race/ethnicity/culture does not matter to him?
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
Queerty c’mon the flocking censorship is getting outta hand
Lets try this again!
Just because you don’t favor a particular flavor of Gay does not make one a r*cist
jockjack5
@AlliterationAddict:
For a lover of alliteration, I did not see one.
Are you just a nattering nabob of negativism?
😀
drivendervish
I think the key here is that this was his story when he began to check out the gay community and it wasn’t what he was expecting. That is the way young, immature gay boys act and think. It is very external and cliquish and all based on looks and money and has nothing to do with what is on the inside of a person. This changes as we age and mature which hopefully happens at the same time. The other thing is that it seems he was expecting that because we were gay that we wouldn’t be like the rest of the kids his age and truthfully we are just like everybody else except for who we want to sleep with. The problem is with his unrealistic expectations.
Black Pegasus
Aww, the poor little snow queen is experiencing racism from the objects of his desires? LOL Well welcome to the real world! I don’t feel sorry for any black man who complains about their lack of respect and success in pursuing white gay men. If you happen to find someone who makes you happy then that’s great. But don’t expect the world to cry for you when you’re rejected by white guys for the very same reasons you reject your own black race.
jockjack5
There are 3 races on planet Earth.
Two are doing just fine and one is perpetually in the shitter.
It’s a cultural truism that we all gravitate towards our own, whether we are from Stockholm, Saigon, or Soweto.
And we are not all the same.
A space mission is not the same as a sharpened stick.
Black Pegasus
@Tackle: Your last comment is very astute and on point! I agree wholeheartedly! I try to live my life in accordance to those values. Treating people kindly with a simple smile (regardless of race, age or physical appearance). And having the courage and self esteem to step outside of you comfort zones by befriended people. I find men of all races physically attractive, but I refuse to demean myself like some men of color do in order to attain a white man. I can sense when someone is being patronizing towards me because of my race. And I can also sniff out the ones with fetishes and inauthentic affections towards me. Having a healthy sense of self worth is required when navigating the gay universe. Unfortunately, black men like the one is this video will never see that reality before suffering through lots of needless pain. Its clearly his choice.
Queertyreader2
One only needs to read the online profiles to see how “PREJUDICED and UN-ACCEPTING” we are to each other….NO FATS, NO FEMS, NO BLACKS or ASIANS….Yet if an online ad said, “NO GAYS” our community would be in an uproar…If we can’t accept each other how do we expect the world to accept us?
Xzamilio
@Chris: Of course you are… not only did you miss the point, your follow is a blatant dismissal of what a lot of us see and deal with. What, you can’t walk and chew gum at the same time? Because a lot of us (people of color) often have to be able to deal with this nonsense AND racism. Boy, it must be nice to have to not focus on one or the other at your own convenience. Talking about social issues, voting rights, and blah blah blah… stay on subject.
jwtraveler
@Black Pegasus: Where do you get the idea that he’s ‘rejecting his own black race’. He said he was dating a white guy. Are you implying that black men should only date black men? That’s exactly the thinking that he’s reacting to.
sportyguy1983
This is one of the most tiresome arguments and complaints around. It is called sexual attraction. People need to get over the fact that some people are just not sexually attracted to them because of their physical features whether it be their weight, their hair color, their skin color, the eye features, their lack of a penis, the size of their penis, etc…. Move on and find someone who finds you sexually attractive enough to want to f.ck the s.hit out of you.
Random
@sportyguy1983: We’ve covered all of this in the comments above, so perhaps you’d benefit from (re-)reading them to gain a fuller understanding of the subject.
Blackceo
@sportyguy1983:
All these comments in and people are still trying to equate skin color with height or weight??? Yes we know everyone has preferences. I’m talking about the “I don’t date any “fill in the blank” guys.
Furthermore, the superficiality of some of the responses that somehow those of us who are commenting on some of these entire race exclusion gays are just bitter because a particular guy isnt attracted to us is lazy as shit thinking. I don’t give a shit who u end up fucking at the end of the day and am not pressed if you aren’t interested in me. I’m duscussing this issue from a psychoanalytic stance as it relates to human behavior. Its not a judgment for me as much as it is an indictment of how our prejudices and preferences are influenced based on how the dominant culture shapes our worldviews. Again, always exceptions to the rule but I call BS all day every day on anyone who claims excluding an entire racial demographic is just preference.
Chris
@Xzamilio: As a person of color, myself, I am on subject. The personal is just that. The social worries me a lot more. If others cannot deal with it, there comes a point where it’s not my problem.
Chris
@Black Pegasus: Except for your calling the author a “poor little snow queen,” I’m with you.
1copaseticsoul
@Black Pegasus: Totally agree… Seen it time and time again. Preference is one thing prejudice is another
1copaseticsoul
I really don’t trust anyone who choosed NOT to date their own race. That goes for any race. Be diverse but to not date within your own race at all is a bit weird. Preference and prejudice have a thin line….
sportyguy1983
@blackceo
sportyguy1983
@blackceo Rolling my eyes and shaking my head. Yes skin color (or slanted eyes) is the same thing as height, weight, age, hair/eye color. Get over yourself and get off your high horse.
Tackle
@Black Pegasus: Thanks. And I agree with both of your post. Very well put…
Blackceo
@sportyguy1983:
Roll and shake away. If u don’t understand the distinction between I don’t date short guys as opposed to I don’t date Latino/Asian/White, etc guys then there’s nothing more to say.
laurent paris
@Blackceo: Again, how is it different?
Depending on the definitions and where you live, excluding short, fat or old people can actually involve larger segments of the population than just black people.
And just like preferences based on ethnicity, attitudes towards people of a certain age or body type is often based on prejudice, social conditioning and other psychological factors.
And of course, it hurts just as much. Just ask overweight people if they feel that rejection based on body type is somehow less of a problem than racism in the gay community.
The more I think of it, the more similarities become obvious.
Xzamilio
@Chris: So then it’s not you problem… but it is a problem overall, and one that should be addressed. Call it what it is instead of trying to pretty it up to be nothing more than “preferences.”
Xzamilio
@Chris: *your
Xzamilio
I can’t with these comments anymore. I’ve never been privy to such aggressive ignorance and people proud of being so damn hung up on superficiality. To hell with this nonsense. Stay stupid.
JOSHRYAN
Im Black, moved to west hollywood and I thought it was a gay “community” I didnt know the division, discrimination, racism, etc. I dated black, latin, asian,and a number of white guys etc, but something else was palpable I began to notice, online mostly; some comments written by gays on this very site for instance. Gay white dudes who think that the rest of us are supposed to clamor for them and kiss their ass, because they are white. Im not kidding, there are some guys who act like they dont have to bring anything to the table except their white skin. They act like their white skin automatically makes them attractive…and its like WTF. It’s like some strange superiority complex and entitlement. When I first came out,I was open to dating any body because I find beauty in different types of people, but because of the things Ive noticed, I now have lost any interest in white dudes, because they may have some sort of hidden complex. When I date another man of color, that never happens. So now I make it known that I only really date men of color, and I feel bad about the fact that Ive let those experiences change me. Am I now a part of the problem? lol
JOSHRYAN
Just to ad something else in case there are others who can relate So…Im black, and I was on adam4adam once; and this white guy sent me a message to start a conversation and message telling me how hot I am etc…So I clicked on his profile, and low and behold in his profile he says,
“into White and Latino men”.
So in my reply to him I simply said, “I appreciate the compliment, but I am obviously not white nor latino so I dont want to waste either of our time”
He then swiftly replied,
“wait a minute I’m into Black guys and Asian guys too, hot is hot to me”.
I then said, “Then that is what your profile should say, goodnight”.
This dude had the gall to completely dismiss Black and Asian men in his profile, and then approach me as if I would be interested. Like because he is white im suppose to disregard what a douche he is to Black and Asian men I mean..LOL…you can’t make this stuff up.
And if you pay attention, the guys who are the most discriminatory in their profiles, are also the most average looking. Ill take a hot Brother or Asian guy over white guy who reveals himself as a bigot any day.?
cflekken
@Xzamilio: Sorry that my analogies are beyond your intelligence.
Xzamilio
@cflekken: Your analogies are fallacious bullshit.
SportGuy
Rejecting people based soley on skin color is flat out racism. People can say whatever they want to try and make themselves feel better!
cflekken
@Xzamilio: The only fallacious bullshit here is your perceived comprehension of your own ideals, my friend. But you have to live with it, so have fun with it.
Kernos
I’ve never understood racial prejudice. It’s the guy that matters, not skin color. But I know it’s common. I’ve wondered if there may be a pheromonal difference that some react differently to? I also don’t understand why there is so much homophobia among straight blacks. One would think they’d understand prejudice.
Random
@Kernos: Nope. Nothing to do with ‘pheromonal difference’, and everything to do with culture.
T2TheB
@Kernos:
A bit off topic, I think, but…
Blacks understand prejudice very well most of the time. That, however, doesn’t make them immune to contracting it. The other thing that blacks understand well is the sorts of reprisal and ostricization one can have to endure for being that which is neither preferred nor expected.
Fear and uncertainty are very powerful motivators. It takes huge degrees of fortitude to overcome them. It’s somewhat less hard to do with one’s skin color for that cannot be hidden and it’s impossible for anyone who sees one to not be aware of it. One’s sexual preference on the other hand can be very effectively be hidden from view. And when one feels one is struggling to make one’s place in the world, it’s not at all surprising that one may opt not to add yet another challenge to doing so.
Do I think folks should effect a “closet” in which they hold their sexual orientation? Well, not really, but then I also feel that one’s sexual orientation — be it STR8, gay, or something else — is really not something I need to know unless I want to sleep with them or they with me. After all, outside of that situation, why should I care?
I didn’t ever formally “come out,” but the people who were important in my life asked after they observed various behaviors on my part. I simply answered their question about it honestly, thinking that if they were ready to ask the question, they were also ready to receive the answer.
Sluggo2007
My experience with gay black men is that they’re overly aggressive and pushy (just like their straight counterparts). They think just because you’re there, they can have you.
T2TheB
@Sluggo2007:
Wow! Do you work in a prison perhaps? Let’s all be thankful that the black men whom you’ve met aren’t held out as representatives for the entirety of all black men. One of the black men I’ve met (we’re not friends, and I doubt he remembers me) happens not to be gay, but did become President.
I’m not sure what your point is meant to be. There are African American a-holes just as there are a-holes from other racial descents. I seriously doubt that the ratio of jerks to non-jerks in the black community differs from that in any other community.
If you meant that sexual orientation, generally speaking, has little to no impact on one’s comportment, well okay, but you sure could have chosen a less “charged” way to say so.
jockjack5
@T2TheB:
Sluggo2007 is simply voicing his opinion on his “experience”, which is what make these comments meaningful and insightful.
We have not all had the same experiences, but to feign ignorance as to “what your point is meant to be” is to discount or dismiss HIS experience.
It is often the case that we have real-life experiences which validate unseemly stereotypes. I wonder why.
dave lopes
Folks, there is no HUMAN RIGHT that people be attracted to you.
No one has to defend their attraction or explain the reasons.
The major part of SEXUAL attraction is physical.
Races differ physically. A Swede does not look like a Nigerian.
I see beauty in all races and have seen good looking people in all races.
Sexually however, it is the dark skin, the nappy hair, the shape of the nose, the shape of the lips and other particularities of the negro race that gets my mojo hard.
Yes culture and society and upbringing might have impacted such preference, but that is irrelevent.
There is absolutly NOTHING wrong with discriminating when it comes to sex. It is a natural part of attraction and sex.
No one should be shamed into sex with something/someone they are not attracted to simply to please others or for a political agenda.
I am a black man who is strongly sexually aroused by dark and brown skined blacks, mildly aroused by mulattos or light skinned blacks and not sexually aroused by whites and asians.
It is what it is.
Computerboy
There is some homophobia behind this rejection of blackness, if you notice how this white man said “I don’t date black guys” clearly never saying black gay guys. White men in society whether gay or straight don’t differentiate black men. It’s pretty obvious that it’s not okay in their eyes for black men to be gay. They can’t take the idea of a black man liking dick over pussy seriously. I’ve notice that black and gay culture pressure masculinity on black men, which probably explains black homophobia being so pervasive. Homosexuality is seen as being less manly by societies standards, which is not a virtue of black masculine standards. I guess on that note the gay community and the black community are on common ground, they both have a zero tolerance for black homosexual men.