A London spa has come under fire for evicting a man because of his genitals.
In an exclusive story, GayStarNews identifies the man only as “Jason,” a 26-year-old transgender gentleman who visited the Sailor’s Sauna October 29. The spa advertises itself as a social club for men interested in other men. Jason went to the spa over his own apprehensions.
“I was a little nervous about being trans as I haven’t had bottom surgery but was reassured [by a friend] there would be no issue,” Jason says. “So I thought I’d double check on the website. There was no information I could find that states trans men are not welcome, or any information on rules.”
Jason visited the spa for about an hour, but when he sat in a Jacuzzi, a staff member asked him to leave. When Jason asked why, the staff member told him that his vagina disqualified him. Naturally, Jason protested and even showed his government-issued ID that listed him as male. Still, the staff insisted he leave and reportedly added: “if you had t@ts and a dick, it’d be fine.” The staff did issue Jason a full refund.
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The UK has several laws on the books that protect people against discrimination based on gender identity. A spokesman for Sailor’s Sauna confirmed that the incident had taken place, but claimed that since the spa is licensed as a male-only spa, staff weren’t sure if admitting a transgender man who had a vagina violated their license agreement. Local government has since confirmed that allowing transgender men who have not undergone genital surgery does not violate the spa’s city permits.
“On Monday evening, a customer informed a member of staff that a woman was using the venue,” Sailor’s Sauna said in a statement. “I can only confirm what was said on the reception. The customer was told we did not know how we would stand in regards to our license. We are only licensed for men to use the venue….The customer was given a full refund and we did apologize. We have had confirmation from the council that if someone has a GRC [Gender Recognition Certificate] or ID confirming they are male, we would not be in breach of our license.”
mr guy
“Penile privilege” peak wokist bullshit.
wallerbe
Sorry what a load o crap that is ?! Why didn’t they just explain that to him in the first place?! I’m sure it would have ended more diplomatically – they’ve just claimed ignorance around the situation rather than being transphobic (which I believe they were) cmon everyone needs to get with the times especially our own kind
PinkoOfTheGange
The club says they did.
Either the gentleman or GSN didn’t report that he was told the reason, or the club is lying.
And these days I kind of don’t care. It seems that the Club checked their Lic. terms and the gentleman will be welcome in the future. Being a pioneer has it’s set backs.
Scout
How many of us can honestly and truthfully say we would not be uncomfortable with a transgender male who still had a vagina in a male only spa or bathhouse?
AndThenTheresMax
I totally wouldn’t be. I’m honest enough to say it. Bathhouses are where I go to see men; not women.
Wicked Dickie
I watched a porn a few weeks ago with a FTM and I was totally intrigued and turned on by seeing his puzzy get plowed. Plus he was hot.
Kangol
I wouldn’t be. I’ve been around transmen before, as well as nude women’s genitalia. Hell, we all came out of them, didn’t we?
Rock-N-RollHS
And you could pass by him like you would any other person who you found unattractive.
Brian
I would be. I know we’re supposed to be politically correct and say they’re a man just like any other man, but they’re not. They have a vagina. I don’t want vaginas involved in anything sexual for me.
KevInSD
Promiscuity + gender deviance = the two pillars of Queerty. This story has both, so it’s not surprising to find it here.
No man was excluded from the bathhouse. A heterosexual female was excluded. She should be grateful. Being excluded from a bathhouse is like being excluded from a sewer.
Vince
Do you ever get tired of being the stick up her butt church lady?
miserylovedme24
They should be excluded from there. A gay bathhouse is not the place for someone with a vagina to be, period. The idea that a gay bathhouse should be welcoming to those that are transgender is ridiculous.
CarrieV
Like it or not, the times are changing. They are ALWAYS changing.
Not many decades ago, Blacks weren’t welcomed into white golf courses, gays weren’t welcome to teach in schools, and women weren’t welcome to vote in important matters.
The bathhouse is billed as being for men who like men… not for people with penises who like people with penises. Funnily enough, the possibility of being welcome if he’d had boobs and a wang illustrate another problem entirely, primarily that a gay man is mostly interested in a GAY MAN, not a transwoman with boobs who hasn’t yet gotten bottom surgery.
Rock-N-RollHS
@ CarrieV. I’m with you on letting him in; but I’m one of those who don’t view a guy without a penis as a guy. I view that person as a Transman, which as far as I’m concerned is different from a man. Others–off all genders and sexual orientations–may disagree, and that’s their prerogative. but let’s stop with the liberal coercion that we ALL agree that a trans man is a man. I’m not being mean because I do believe we should all respect each other and all should have equal protection under the law. People who constantly argue against binaries need to acknowledge there is a gender that is neither man nor woman, they are Trans.
OzJosh
I have nothing against trans people, but, seriously, how clueless can you be? How is this any different from any other vagina owners deciding to gain entry under false pretences and plonk themselves down in the spa? Do they really imagine that they’re welcome? It’s an act of monumental self-delusion to believe that they qualify for entry, much less that other patrons are going to be comfortable with their presence, much less interested in engaging. If the agenda (conscious or unconscious) is an attempt to make others comfortable with trans presence in such a setting, then it’s going to rebound badly.
Josh447
You may be partially correct but from what I understand, this girl to guy has always thought like a guy, that he/she was a guy. So it wouldn’t be like a female mentality looking to crash a male party zone. This “guy” was transiting the body not the mind. Seems he’d be more like a male lost in a woman’s body trying to get back again with the guys. What do you think with that in mind?
john_green
Many of the transgender men I’ve met are charismatic men as authentically a man as any other man, with awesome muscles, body hair and softly masculine features. There are a lot of men who don’t meet the masculinity measures that many transmen easily exceed.
Cacti
Its easy to look hypermasculine when you are receiving injections of testosterone…
JH0607
Anyone without a dick has zero masculinity and does not belong at the baths.
Rock-N-RollHS
Your comment reveals the total ridiculousness of the liberal position on this issue. Such people are the first to argue that masculinity is a construct (which much of it is) and that gender is a construct (much of it can be) yet then use the words masculinity as if it has a clear and universally understood meaning. Do you mean aggressive? Has a deep voice? Muscles? What do you mean? And, again this is different from biological sex–of which there are a number of markers–at least 5 according to anne fausto-sterling–which are complexly determined. Many of us don’t care how “masculine” a person is. I know plenty of lesbians way more masculine than twink gays but they are still women and the twinks are still men. Again, some people are fine with seeing Trans man with vaginas and small waists and fuller hips as men, that’s cool. But a lot of us don’t. We see them as Trans.
Donston
Obsession with hyper masculinity is an issue for a portion of gay men. But I’ve also noticed it’s an issue for some trans men. A decent amount of trans men use their masculinity to justify and solidify their sense of gender identity but also as a way to belittle effeminate gay men. There’s also a decent percentage of trans men who resent trans women. There’s all this talk about gay men being a big issue within the “queer community”. But there’s ignorance, resentment and divides across the board.
I’ve also noticed a decent percentage of gay/homo-leaning men are more likely to feel comfortable being social with or even sexually engaging with trans women than trans men. Trans people in general represent a grey area that is beyond basic hetero/homo sexuality. I am only interested in being with a cis male. However, I’d rather sexually/romantically engage with a trans woman than a trans dude. And I can admit that there’s a decent amount of good-looking trans men out there.
KevInSD
How hilariously clueless. You say that there are non-masculine males, but you don’t for a minute doubt that they are men. Their failure to meet “masculinity measures” does not render them women. But for some reason, females have muscles and charisma are deemed to be men. What’s the difference? That the females declare themselves to be men? Does that mean that the “transmen” who don’t have muscles aren’t men?
This is the kind of confused mess you get when you try to normalize the mental illness that is transgenderism.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
WTF?? Has this site become infected with right wing intolerant smcubags???
I know trans guys who are just as masculine and just as hot as any guy in a bathhouse. Some people are simply born into the wrong body. For anyone who identifies as Gay to cast hatred, discrimination, and bigotry on another Gay person you should be beyond ashamed of yourselves. The comments on this thread are mean spirited, hatefilled and disgusting…
PinkoOfTheGange
Trans issues brings out the worst around here.
KevInSD
A masculine female is still a female. A female to goes to a sauna to seek out sex with males is not gay. She is heterosexual.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
KevinSD: Not sure if you are ignorant or just another hatefilled, bigoted troll. Am sure you have NEVER met a trans person. Google “Aydian Dowling” and restate he is a “masculine female” …..
Josh447
As is true with anyone we may hate or don’t understand, sitting down with someone for even just a moment, just moments, can take away disparity and judgement. Gays have the same desire, to be understood. Trans is no different. Under all the layers, we’re all human with the same feelings and thoughts. Once we give ourselves a chance to understand and listen, all the fear melts away. There are ghosts we must all overcome. It just boils down to which team you want to bat for, fear or love. Noone wants to hurt others really, and everyone wants to be understood. Doesn’t matter who you are. A little understanding goes a long way to settle the nerves. Not easy sometimes, but true in the end.
JH0607
You have obviously never even been to a gay male bathhouse. You sound more like a girl.
mr guy
Make no mistake this is just the latest vexatious and coordinated coercive power grab by trans-activists against gay men, following the recent targeting of the bear club in London. This too is nonsense on stilts. f you can’t ban vaginas then you also can’t ban vaginas+breasts. After all “Trans” status, we are informed, does not require any kind of body modification, hormone treatment or even dysmorphia—indeed supposedly it’s “transphobic” to insist it does; self-IID alone is all that is required to be fully authentically male (in this case), thus meaning not just vaginas but otherwise essentially fully female-presenting bodies with breasts and everything (the equivalent of the unapologetically bearded trans-woman Alex Drummond ) ought be no bar to entry even into a gay male sexual space — one of the few spaces allowed to gay males to unashamedly enjoy their shared androphilia in this hegemonic heterosexist society. Of course there ought to be places were trans-men and gay men can hook up. But those of us who want our own spaces deserve to be left in peace to pursue our own very different taste
surreal33
Thank you, I could not have said it better. Bathhouse is A MALE ONLY SPACE. It is deceptive to sneak in under the guise of being a man then sport a twat. SHE got was SHE deserved. I would not presume to dress in drag enter an all female club then whip out a 10 incher and expect to be accepted. We seriously need to learn to play nice and play truthful. Truth is always!!!
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
Once again the vile bigotry and abhorrent hatred dislpayed on this thread is DISGUSTING. I agree there are some trans people who once undergo the transition identify as straight. To them I say good luck and goodbye, enjoy life in the straight world. However no one identifying as Gay has any right to cast unacceptance and bigotry against ANYONE else who identifies as Gay. Our community is facing a loss of all the gains we have made in the last 20 years because of an administration infected with noxious smcubags who yearn for the days when Gays were forced to stay in the closet. There are those who have gained actual power seeking to recriminilize Gays having sex.
Wake the fcuk up and cast your ire and outrage towards those who deserve it……
Brian
Do you even know what a bathhouse is?
QueerTruth
In this case, it’s a men’s only SEX SPA… This isn’t a club/bar/job opportunity/housing/etc. I think if you are trans male and not transitioned fully, then you shouldn’t be at this club.
Sorry. This isn’t about equal rights or such. It’s about gay male sex. This does not need to be debated. It’s just not appropriate. It’s common sense, not human rights.
This is the same when trans people wear prosthetic while traveling and are screened. Everyone knows you will be screened when you fly. So that trans person will need to remove their prosthetic and may be be frisked… Again, terribly embarrassing, but what can we do? Everyone is screened… I urge trans people to use some common sense – don’t wear your prosthetic if you are flying. In this case, don’t go to a gay male sex club if you have a vagina.
I have nothing but love and empathy for trans people. But often I see issues like this and I think – use common sense. These examples are totally avoidable, so we can focus on the greater human rights issues trans people face.
Polaro
I believe they should have the right to determine who can or cannot participate when it comes to places like this. The next step is allowing women in and then it goes to helll. That said, one would think a gay trans man would be welcome and would find some new “friends”. This is new terrain, we should expect some growing pains as the rapidly evolving trans social integration moves forward.
Sam
I’ve seen transgender in the gay bathhouse in Los Angeles. Both FTM and MTF. Sadly, most gay men usually ignore trans people and they have nights ever month for transgenders.
QueerTruth
Don’t see it as “sad”. People like what they like. I’m a gay man, I’m attracted to men and that includes his male anatomy. If a female to male trans person has female anatomy – I’m not interested. So what? He is only interested in males himself.
Brian
OK, that is ridiculous. Now we’re supposed to let FTM into bathhouses because they identify as male, but also let MTF who identify as female in as well? Even if you think transgender people should be allowed into single gender spaces, surely it should be one or the other but not both? Is it self identity or is it physical characteristics?