Injustice

Two men were arrested and brutally tortured for having gay sex

According to various reports, two men in Uzbekistan were arrested and tortured for having gay sex in their own home.

Police claim that the men, each in their 20s, will face three years in prison for “engaging in illegal sexual relations”.

In September, the couple moved into a new apartment in Tashkent. As of now, it’s uncertain how police learned they were having sex.

Authorities confirmed both men were subjected to “anal probe torture.”

Related: Gay journalist who helped expose Chechnya atrocities now faces deportation

The late President Islam Karimov called gay people “a vile phenomenon of Western culture” in February of last year:

“If a man lives with a man, or a woman with a women, I think that something there isn’t quite right, or some change has happened.”

Last week, it was announced in Moscow City Court that gay journalist Ali Feruz would be deported back to Uzbekistan.

The order is currently suspended, and the process will remain stalled as his case is reviewed by the Strasbourg court.

Feruz once stated that “it is better to die than to go back to Uzbekistan.”

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67 Comments

  • Xzamilloh

    For all of the west’s flaws and homophobia, it’s still miles better to live here than in any Islamic country as an LGBT person.

    • Knight

      Or as a woman, or as a Christian, or as an ethnic minority…

    • Zeke_Krahlin

      But it’s all deteriorating rapidly…soon we’ll be just as horrid as Uzbekhistan or any other bum-fuk nation. Not just for LGBTs, but for women, blacks and most any other non-white, non-Christian minority. I’m sure slaves with a “gentle” plantation owner felt blessed, when compared to slaves with a harsh plantation owner. And that is how your American “gratitude” comes off.

    • Redmage

      Which is why I think people who talk about this country, as if we are doing the same thing, or living in an era in which such behavior is ok, are pathetic.

      You’ll always have ignorant hateful people, that is just the dark side of humanity unfortunately, no matter where you go.. However some places due to culture (speaking of Islamic, and countries like Russia), embrace the ignorance and dark side a bit too much (doesn’t mean ALL Russians, or ALL who call themselves Muslim are bad.).

    • My2Cents

      I would add that Russia is almost as bad as that and they are a Christian nation.

    • Redmage

      @Zeke_Krahlin

      Um no.. BIG NO.

      The only thing that is deteriorating rapidly in America is decency, common sense, grit, rationality, education, and freedom. We’ve got more and more, people just being assholes to each other. People behaving very tribal, and not wanting to hear anything from someone else.. If it doesn’t fit with what they believe in, what makes them feel good.. Then the other person is branded as something they are not. Too many offended by this or that, wanting to shut it down, silence it so they “feel safe”.. Too many behave like emotional babies, and detached from reality, and have allowed themselves to be divided due to lies of politicians and media, its quite pathetic really.

      There isn’t anything being taken away from LGBT’s, only gaining.. But there are a lot of problems within the community, that need fixing.. A lot of the bigotry is one of them. Not too long ago in Russia, there was a bill passed to keep homosexuals from being educators, and they were trying (if they didn’t already) pass a bill to keep homosexuals from driving.. It is ok to do horrible things to homosexuals in Russia (and many other countries I can name). In America the majority of the people will rightly believe these things to be wrong, and hateful- and will speak out against it.

      If you’re a woman living in a first world nation, you’re good… Well that’s not entirely true I’ll agree. If you’re a woman living in Europe, you have to worry about being attacked and raped by someone who shouldn’t even be in the country, then you have to deal with a media and government that will turn a blind eye to it, because they put political correctness over the safety of its citizens, and don’t be a father brother, or husband who is angry and speaks out over the way his daughter, wife, or sister is being treated after she is raped and or killed (especially if you’re white, or only if you’re white in many cases)… You’ll be labeled a bigot and taken to court, may even face jail time.. Yes this is actually happening in Europe to people.

      In America though, political correctness hasn’t gotten so stupidly out of control yet, so in America if you are a woman you’re good. You’re not paid less because you’re a woman, that is a huge lie uneducated people believe in. If it were true, you’d see pretty much nothing but women in the workforce, because no business owner would want to hire someone he’d have to pay more (men).. He’d just hire women, because its ok to pay women less… Common sense… The reason why men will be paid more, is due to the FACT, that men and women are different. Men are generally more driven and ambitious than women are, and will be away from their families working their butts off. Men also tend to take very dangerous and stressful, and physically demanding jobs, that pay more… Men also do not get pregnant and stay out of work for X amount of time.

      Are there women out there who are very ambitious, and want to make it to the top and work their butts off? You bet, and they make more money than any of the men who work under them, or more money than their husbands do.. Those are awesome chicks, and if they are good people should be viewed as great role models to young women who may have that spark.. Not all females care for that though, there are more females, who want to be a great mother, and care for the home and raising her children, and take a lot of pride in that.. Yet today this is seen as something funny, she’s dumb, or she likes being a slave to a man.. No its quite noble, and a beautiful thing, and should be respected just as that woman who has the drive and ambition men generally do… Third wave feminism is the cancer, that is the problem women in first world nations face.. Along with the whole actual rape culture being imported by Europe, if you’re a woman in Europe.

      western society, has become too feminized.. Most females today behave like selfish, spoiled, annoying children. This is part of why marriage is slowly declining, most young males do not want to marry, not because they are afraid of commitment, but due to the fact that most women just aren’t worth it (or they go for older women), and if the marriage ends, the male is punished for it.. On the flip side due to modern day feminism, most males do not know how to be men.. There are many males who behave like over emotional females, are cowardly and think they are clever or better than a real man (gay or straight), or they behave like boys, or extreme bullies, because that natural male energy isn’t being honed and directed the right way, by a good strong man. Masculinity is seen as something offensive, bad, outdated, or stupid, and strong, masculine, real men are made fun of, gay or straight, but ESPECIALLY if they are straight, white, and Christian. If they are straight, white, and Christian they are evil, they are seen as expendable, useless, hateful (labeled a bigot when you don’t even know their heart).

      As a young black male, and gay.. If I said something bigoted about a white person, I’ll be fine. Yeah some may complain but, I’ll be fine. If my partner who is a very masculine white male said something bigoted, or even something that could be considered so due to overly sensitive morons today, he’s finished, done! Even if people learned that he is gay, and married to a black guy.. More strikes against him, because he was military and is a cop, and not a Democrat/leftist… He’d have people wanting to find out where he lives, so they can beat him, or worse.. This is wrong, very wrong. I should be treated no differently if I said something bigoted. You don’t build anyone up, by tearing down someone else.

      As far as blacks in America.. The problems within the black community, are created by the black community, and can only be fixed by the black community. There is too much idolization of street culture, which has ignorantly been propped up as “Black culture”, and if you don’t think, dress, or behave as such then you’re not black. There is no personal responsibility, no respect for authority, too much violence, which is also why there are many problems whenever they run into law enforcement.. The poverty which fuels a lot of the anger, can also be fixed, if they stopped supporting politicians who keep hurting them economically (Democrats.. Yep I said it).

      Growing up, I never felt disadvantaged, underprivileged. I felt privileged because I had both parents, who were awesome, and thank god didn’t believe in the Democrat/left-wing rubbish so many blacks often do, nor did they have a chip on their shoulder.. They were very old school Republican, meaning quite classically liberal, and very American. When I came out to them, I felt like I could as I felt like I could talk to them about anything. They understood it, and I’m glad they got to meet the guy I am married to before they passed, and they loved him. I didn’t grow up being fearful of police, I can’t ever remember a period in my life (I’m 32) In which I was afraid or nervous of police.. I understand some cops are assholes, because some people are just assholes, but I never had fear… I do remember many times, and especially today being cautious around thuggish looking blacks, as any type of violence towards me, is HIGHLY most likely to come from some thuggish black person. I also didn’t grow up thinking white people were bad and out to get me.. I understood that some people are hateful, white black whatever.. Its the downside of humanity is how I looked at it.

    • Redmage

      @My2Cents

      One thing people must understand is.. If you are calling yourself a Christian, and you’re saying, hateful things, or wishing hateful things… You’re a Christian in name only.. Jesus wouldn’t condone such thing, and there isn’t anything within the bible or what he preached, that condones hatred or mistreatment of others… I cannot say the same thing for Islam though, where it calls to bring violence and death to those who refuse to accept Allah… And don’t try to use old testament as example.. People ignorantly do that all the time, not understanding that the world, and humanity were very different at that time.. Things were harsh and had to be, in order for humanity and especially the Israelite people to grow.. When Jesus came about, he was redeeming humanity, and entering a new covenant, a new way and hope to ALL people, so a lot of Old Testament stuff was no longer to be done, nor needed.. Unfortunately there are many ignorant Christians who like to follow ALL (or wish they could) old Testament laws.. They are doing it wrong, Christians aren’t supposed to be doing that. Islam picks bits and pieces out of both Christianity, and Judaism, the old harsh laws that are seen more as lessons in the other two faiths. Islam turns it up, throws in a lot of politics, warrior culture, and boom.. There are Muslims who want to reform the faith, but they are quickly killed, or threatened, or if they live in the west ignored, or even called Islamophobic lol. Its the only faith that has not gone through any kind of reformation.

      However though, in Russia there is a growing move more towards fascism. Greece also has a lot of people pushing more and more for this, with the Golden Dawn (who “want to get back to the old gods”, as one of its leaders stated). One of the things these new fascist are about, is using Christianity as a stepping stone to pull people in… Like Hitler did, but in reality they despise Christianity (as Jesus was a Jew, they hate Jews and the beliefs of the faith goes against what they want to do to others), and are more about and want to get back to paganism.. Christianity isn’t compatible with fascism/communism or their economic practice of socialism, which is why they always want to do away with it, and you get the paganism (which was Nazi Germany, there was even a Nazi bible), or worshiping the state/leader (Stalin, removed all Christian symbols from churches and replaced them with images of himself or other communist symbols).

    • Knight

      Red I agree. People like Zeke are clueless drama-queens who have no idea what real suffering is.

    • Knight

      Red WOW…..I posted my first response to you without reading what you wrote to My2cents. I’m amazingly impressed! I wonder how you would respond to some of the mischaracterizations of Christianity I found on this thread here https://www.queerty.com/rape-ok-long-done-christian-benham-brothers-claim-20171127

      You seriously sound like you have a thorough and academic knowledge on the topics. It really is nice to see a rational post on this, as opposed to the usual dog-pile of hate I have seen on this site.

    • Luna1979

      Redmage, i agree completely!! I’ve spent the last 6 years living abroad. The worst was Azerbaijan. Uzbekistan is much the same, an evil cousin if you will. People really don’t know how good they have it in the US. They ought to travel more often. Regarding race, I have a lot of black friends like you. They also have the same story; they have never been afraid of the police or endured hoards of evil white people (pretty much all married to whites). No one cares about anyone’s color. They care about mentality and culture.

  • Daniel-Reader

    So the message is apparently that Uzbek government officials don’t need people to uphold any human rights any longer as far as they are concerned. Clearly they don’t honor other people’s human rights so their own are pointless to uphold by others. They must have special powers that no one knows about to be in such a position.

  • Jaroslaw

    Funny how there are 133 plus comments on the dickheads in Thailand and only two here. I hate these stories – because (1) how did the police find out (2) I can’t believe there is no other crimes going on in this country that are much more serious (3) If prison is so expensive, or even if it isn’t there; how can they afford to lock up two guys for three years for basically nothing? This is tragic and more people should protest.

    • ChrisK

      Yeah, protests worked so well in the Chechnya genocide.

    • GoodGrief

      It might have something to do with the Thai story being up for 5 days and this story (with now 10 comments) only being up for 60 minutes.

    • Knight

      Good wait, wait, WAIT!!!! You’re going to fast with the math there, bud. I need to break out the calculator app…now start again: 5 days…times 10 comments..

    • GoodGrief

      Knight — you started off wrong, ha. It’s not 5 days times 10 comments. Those 10 comments came in 60 minutes. But, I think Jaroslaw can rest easy…in less than 1 day, this article has almost 50 comments.

    • Knight

      Good shucks…who am I fooling? I can’t even count to 1 without taking my pants off.

  • Mr-DJ

    “A phenomenon of Western Culture”? – How can someone so ignorant be a president? Oh, wait….!

    Also, isn’t ‘anal probe torture’ even MORE WRONG than the actual accused actions?

  • Knight

    Anytime any one hears a Muslim complain about homosexuality being a result of “decadent Western Culture”, one needs to remind him how homosexuality is very rampant and blatant throughout the qur’an and hadeeth (describing “boys like pearls” who will wait on a man’s every need in the afterlife). Their founder, mohammed, kissed 2 separate baby boys on their genitals. Up until the 19th century (i.e. when “the West” finally conquered the former muslim empires, except the Ottomans) there was a very large work of “majun” or homoerotic literature (mostly in arabic and persian) which was very popular…because man-to-man sex was also very popular throughout the muslim world. Even today, in afghanistan young boys are forced to be “bach bhazi” or dancing performers who dress as girls to dance and have sex with men. So, definitely not a “Western thing”. What IS a Western thing is the acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle (as opposed to just the act done with the cover of a married man). This is what muslim societies really don’t like. https://en.qantara.de/content/homoerotic-poetry-in-islam-reeling-with-desire

    • QTYMann

      Knight: Would love to meet/discuss more with you (and Redmage) on this, and similar topics. I responded to a YouTube video posted here roughly 3 years ago, which I greatly expanded on later elsewhere, and would love your thoughts on. Anyway to reach you outside of Queerty?

    • Knight

      QTY sure, we can chat on youtube. Give me the link to whatever video you were talking about and we can carry on there.

  • ChrisK

    A Muslim country that doesn’t believe in human rights?? This is absolutely shocking. I’ve never heard of such a thing.

  • Alan down in Florida

    Thank you for this interesting information. I didn’t know most of this and I’m pretty well read. So rare to find a cogent response in the Queerty comments so thanks for elevating the conversation.

  • He BGB

    I think gay men getting blamed for AIDS caused many in the world to go crazy. Ignorance and fear plus religions wanting power in large numbers (gay people don’t reproduce little Muslims, catholics, baptists etc, get em when they’re young and you have them forever) so gays, women not controlled by their reproductive organs etc are a threat to hateful people

    • Kangol

      Actually, it was the US’s dear friend, Saudi Arabia, which has funded and exported an extremist form of Islam, Salafism, all over the globe, that has led to the increase in extremism. The madrassas that were built all over the globe, the imams trained in extremist schools, etc., have had a profound effect in terms of one form of this religion taking hold. In fact, countries where Sufi Islam (or even some of the predominantly Shia countries, save Iran after the Revolution) have been a lot more liberal around sexuality, women’s rights, etc., than many Americans realize. On top of this, Uzbekistan is a former Soviet republic dominated by one extremely powerful man and his family, and has the support of Russia, the US, etc. Anyone who doesn’t think Christian extremism can have a similar effect has not paid attention to how evangelical Christians are exporting their radical anti-gay agenda to places like Uganda and Nigeria, or how the Russian Orthodox Church has basically worked hand in glove to institute extreme anti-gay laws there.

    • Knight

      Kangol you mean like wonderful shi’a iran, which regularly executes gay men (including teens)? http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-News/Iran-executes-gay-teenager-in-violation-of-international-law-463234

      Nope…you’re either some apologist/propagandist or just simply ignorant. Iran’s “solution” to homosexuality is a) giving the man a choice to have a sex-change operation or b) execution. If you find that attitude “more liberal” then it’s no wonder liberals aren’t taken seriously anymore. Mistreatment/inequality of women in islam is CODIFIED in the qur’an, which is indisputable to muslims; it says women are worth exactly 1/2 of a man in matters of testimony and inheritance and are the absolute property of their husbands, who have the right to beat them. The US, the British empire or ANY other entity you feel like scapegoating had nothing to do with the writing of the qur’an.

      Take a look at this list where homosexuality is punishable by death per the laws of the country. Even a brain-dead self-appointed liberal can see the ONE commonality within it….right?

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/13/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death-2/?utm_term=.3757203034a9

    • Kangol

      Knight, you make a lot of noise, but you clearly cannot read. I said specifically “some of the predominantly Shia countries, save Iran after the Revolution).” SAVE IRAN AFTER THE REVOLUTION. I.E., EXCEPT FOR IRAN AFTER THE REVOLUTION. Before you start calling pople names, read what they write. Please, reading is fundamental!

    • Knight

      Kangol I read EXACTLY what you wrote, but am still calling you out for your nonsense. How many “predominantly Shia countries” do you think there are in the world? Hint: you can count them on one hand, and Iran is the “superpower” among them. So, for you to say “some of the shia countries” which would leave exactly 3…meaning all, since 2 is a couple…not “some” is ludicrous. So…which shia country were you thinking about there, skippy? Sure wasn’t Iraq or Azerbaijan, where homosexuality is still illegal…right? So, you must have meant Bahrain…the ONLY country where homosexuality is “legal”. Well, that’s not “some”..that’s ONE. Not too bright, are you?

  • mhoffman953

    Seems hypocritical of the Muslim world considering in lots of Muslim majority nations, Muslim men will rape little boys and goats

    • Knight

      Mhoff too true. I cited the Bache Bhazi above, but muslim countries (specifically somalia, egypt, morocco and Iran) have a huge sub-culture of man-on-boy pedophilia. And as long as the man is married, nothing is done/it’s all overlooked.

      For anyone reading this: every somali male you have ever come across in the US who was born in somalia/lived there until puberty, statistically he was anally raped as a child. This is a sad but verifiable fact.

  • irbaboon

    I am sooooooooo sick of muslims and all their crap

  • KaiserVonScheiss

    Islamic country doesn’t like the gays. No surprise there.

    • Knight

      Hussain – “An Islamic Republic is a form of government that mixes up aspects of Sharia Law and Republican principles and vehicles” No shit, Sherlock. You’re parroting back the definition I gave to YOU, and in so doing admitting there IS such a thing called an “Islamic country”, The fact you say your “stance and definition stands”, just makes you look stupid and unreasonable, since these countries self-identify as “islamic countries” or republics.

      OK, now let’s play your little game; I was very specific there, so show me how Somalia, Sudan and Iran are “American Lackeys”. I know there ARE muslim countries which have been dominated by US politics over the last 20+ years (KSA, Iraq, Afghanistan etc). That is not in dispute. Like I said, I was specific, so let’s start with the three I mentioned; show me how THEY are “American Lackeys”. If you want to quit now and concede you misspoke, we can move on and I can give you MORE examples of muslim countries that are completely messed up ALL on their own with no way to possibly blame the US for their problems. So…over to you: Somalia, Sudan and Iran. Show how they are “American Lackeys”.

  • Hussain-TheCanadian

    What has happened to those lovers in Uzbekistan is horrible; the ruling “President” of that Nation, and his sick family, have ruled this nation with an Iron fist since 1991, and the support he gets from the American, Russian, and Western European governments is disgusting and appalling; this is exactly the result when our societies sell off our values for cash, natural resources, and military bases. We lose our moral standing and political clout when we try to tell these governments to f*ck off – Then again why should we hold our politicians responsible for their dealings when it’s easier to attack Islam and Muslims. Land of the Brave and free?? I think not.

    P.S.

    Linguistically speaking, there is no such thing as a “Islamic Country”, we either call Uzbekistan a military dictatorship, or a Muslim majority country – “Islamic” isn’t applied to countries sociologically speaking – Then again I know American education is currently lacking.

    • mhoffman953

      @Hussain-TheCanadian

      “‘Islamic’ isn’t applied to countries sociologically speaking”

      No one is using it in sociological terms because Islam is an ideology; thus, we’re using it ideologically. One could even argue that Islam is becoming more of a political ideology with the the growing hatred toward the West, seen in many Muslim majority nations.

      Radical Islam and Sharia Law does not integrate into Western society, which is why those sympathizing with either should not be allowed into the United States

    • Knight

      Hussain you are absolutely mistaken; either lying or simply ignorant. But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt; there are 4 countries which self-identify as “Islamic Republics”- Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan and Mauritania. So, yeah…”Islamic” absolutely IS applied to countries…sociologically and geographically speaking. Arguably, ANY country (regardless of official title) that has its government and/or constitution based on Shari’a law is by definition an “Islamic country”. Not sure what your agenda is here, but you are completely wrong.

      Lastly, if this incident were isolated only within muslim countries (see: previous “Islamic” definition above) that were in the pocket of the US government, then you’d have a point…but you don’t. Somalia, Sudan, Iran, and MANY other countries have absolutely NO US influence over their internal affairs, yet are just as miserable to LGBT and other minorities/dissidents. And it’s been that way for centuries…even pre-dating the United States itself. So, you know what you can do with your historical revisionism, right?

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      @mhoffman953

      Islam is a religion, I don’t understand what you mean by “Ideology”- Political Islam, also known as Islamism, is an ideology that uses religious principles as an anchor and a ladder for political power. – I hope you know the difference, but considering the last post you made above, I highly doubt it.

      @Knight

      An Islamic Republic is a form of government that mixes up aspects of Sharia Law and Republican principles and vehicles – When these countries call themselves Islamic, they are referring to their form of government, which ironically all of the four you listed have different models and levels of mixing between Shariah law and republican principles and laws. Uzbekistan, the country featured in this article, is neither Islamic nor is it a republic, its a military dictatorship – My stance and definition still stands.

      As for your last point, I don’t disagree with you a lot, I do concede that Muslim majority countries treat their LGBT communities horribly, and I will not defend that. However you stating that many of them are not American allies is quite shocking; I am willing to go through a list of every single Muslim majority country with you and show you that the overall majority, including these monsters in Uzbekistan, are indeed American lackeys. Also thanks to this American backing, many of them, are not free either, to be LGBT or anything else for that matter.

    • mhoffman953

      @Hussain-TheCanadian

      “Islam is a religion, I don’t understand what you mean by ‘Ideology'”

      Of course you wouldn’t understand, your name is Hussain and you follow the teachings of Islam. You’ve even been on record on here of downplaying Sharia Law as calling it simply a “complex set of laws” and have even criticized those who disagree with it as “foolish”

      Yet I’m sure you’ll respond with more condescending remarks by implying those who disagree with you lack education or simply don’t know enough

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      @mhoffman953

      Two points; if you are uneducated on a certain topic and others are pointing out to you that you lack the necessary knowledge to comment on certain things or clarify your stance, hence my initial question of what you mean by “ideology”, I even helped you along and gave you an example of what an ideology is, I can’t help you if my response comes off as condescending simply because you don’t know.

      Sharia law is indeed complex, I studied it very closely growing up; there are eight versions of It, which version did I defend again, remind me.

    • mhoffman953

      @Hussain-TheCanadian

      Yeah, Sharia Law is complex, especially the parts where 4 male witnesses are required to have seen actual penetration in cases of forbidden sexual encounters, abortion is illegal in cases of rape, and acceptance of stoning and cutting off the hands of people.

      Do you disavow Sharia Law in any form? Yes or no

    • Knight

      Hussain – “An Islamic Republic is a form of government that mixes up aspects of Sharia Law and Republican principles and vehicles” No shit, Sherlock. You’re parroting back the definition I gave to YOU, and in so doing admitting there IS such a thing called an “Islamic country”, The fact you say your “stance and definition stands”, just makes you look stupid and unreasonable, since these countries self-identify as “islamic countries” or republics.

      OK, now let’s play your little game; I was very specific there, so show me how Somalia, Sudan and Iran are “American Lackeys”. I know there ARE muslim countries which have been dominated by US politics over the last 20+ years (KSA, Iraq, Afghanistan etc). That is not in dispute. Like I said, I was specific, so let’s start with the three I mentioned; show me how THEY are “American Lackeys”. If you want to quit now and concede you misspoke, we can move on and I can give you MORE examples of muslim countries that are completely messed up ALL on their own with no way to possibly blame the US for their problems. So…over to you: Somalia, Sudan and Iran. Show how they are “American Lackeys”.

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      @ mhoffman953

      The laws you mentioned are a drop in an ocean that is Sharia; there are laws that I agree with and laws that I think are outdated and needs total modification of removal. You asking me about disavowing Sharia Laws is akin to me asking you “do you disavow American laws?” – A thoughtful and an educated person would respond to me “which aspects of American laws are you talking about?” – Your absolutism is a cartoonish response; you must be catching up on some Star Wars lore, you sound like a Sith.

    • mhoffman953

      @Hussain-TheCanadian

      Funny that you imply that I’m not educated about what Sharia Law is then when I cite examples such as stoning, cutting off hands, needing 4 male witnesses to see sexual crimes, you shrug it off as “a drop in an ocean that is Sharia” – that’s the scary part

      Interesting that you still didn’t disavow any of the stuff I mentioned

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      @ Knight

      If you mean, by an Islamic country, as in, an Islamic State, then no we don’t have any disagreements.

      This is why I originally said that there is no such thing, politically and sociologically speaking, as an Islamic country; an Islamic state is a form of government that has been advocated by the works of Sayed Qutib and Ayatollah Khomeini – If you are talking about Muslim majority countries, and you’re conflating that with a “Islamic country”, then yes we do have a linguistic problem.

      Also I looked up Iran’s and Pakistan’s official names in both Farsi and Urdu, both actually state: “Jumhuri Islami”, as in, an Islamic (Islami) Republic (Jumhuri); it doesn’t say “Dawlat Islami”, which is Islamic Country. Such a term cannot exist politically unless you are conflating it with an Islamic state/government/state.

      I also did say that I “somewhat agree with you” on your characterization of Iran, Sudan and Somalia; I think I should of been clearer in my last post that those countries are not American lackeys, in this too we don’t have any disagreement.

      However you said “Many others don’t have American influence”, and that’s my disagreement with you. The following Arab governments that get official American government political, economic, and military cover/assistance/support without a peep (out of Washington) about their disgusting human rights record, not to mention how horribly they treat and scapegoat their LGBT communities are:

      Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar, Jordan, Palestinian territories, Egypt, Yemen (up until recently), Morocco, Algeria, Iraq, and Kuwait.

      Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Egypt are among the worse on the planet when it comes to LGBT persecution.

      I can also list the number of Non-Arab Muslim countries that receive the same exact support from Washington and Western Europe without a peep of protest from those governments when the LGBT community in those countries are targeted – A good example is what we are reading about in Uzbekistan.

      So it is not I who is mistaken or willfully ignorant, I visited many of these countries; I’ve been “shushed” by people who warned me that if I don’t quite criticizing their governments, the worse that can happen to me is be beaten and deported, while they can be locked up in an underground dungeon never to see the light of day again (This happened to me in Kuwait, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq – funny enough never once in Iran).

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      @ mhoffman953

      I didn’t realize you wanted me to disavow the list of laws you mentioned; I thought you’re talking about Sharia as a whole – Well I don’t mind telling you which of the laws you listed I agree with and which ones I disavow.

      1) Stoning of any kind, I disavow, its not in the Qur’an.

      2) Four Witnesses who must witness intercourse, as in, the penis entering the vagina or Anus; yes I support this law, it exists because its impossible to have four upright Muslims witnessing such an act to begin with. The law exists to protect against those who have sex outside of marriage, and lay the burden of proof on the accusers, not the victims.

      3) Abortion isn’t illegal in any of the 8 versions of Islamic Law, it is permitted only in the case of Rape and life endangerment of the mother. Two versions of the law even allow abortions if the fetus is going to turn into an ill (handicapped) baby.

      4) Rape – No version of any of the Sharia laws allows rape; unless you are referring to spousal rape, which here Yes, I do disavow.

      5) Cutting off the hands of thieves if they steal up to a certain amount, some laws say $5000 worth, others will say $10,000 worth, of property or monetary cash – Yes I agree with this – How I loved to see the hands of the thieves of wall street and their political pimps have their hands chopped off for robbing the American people.

    • Knight

      Hussein honestly, you might get away with that kind of double-talk with your less-intelligent friends, but it won’t work with anyone who has any degree of intelligence. You are setting up what are called “straw-men”, an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent’s real argument. I NEVER said a) “arab muslim country” as opposed to “muslim country”…you made this distinction….to me there is none. b) I never said there AREN’T muslim countries which were dominated politically by the US…this is a GIVEN. I said 2 things: there IS such a thing as an “Islamic country”, and you will find as per the dictionary definitions; republic, country and state are interchangeable (a “republic” is a type of “state” which is a “country”). Your blathering and grasping at a way out for your error is not going to accomplish anything; you are wrong. There is such a thing as an “Islamic country”, since the government AND citizens of these countries self-identify as such https://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/2896/what-is-the-definition-of-an-islamic-country

      Lastly, and once again, given you concede you were wrong, and not ALL “muslim countries” are dominated or lackeys of the US (I named 3 that aren’t and also named 3 that ARE…so your additional diatribe was unnecessary), here are some more: Indonesia (the largest muslim country), Brunei, Bangladesh, Algeria, Djibouti, or Mauritania. I think this is a good list to continue with (and I have more). So, tell us how ANY of these countries is a “lackey of the US” or how the US can be blamed in ANY WAY for the horrible way their governments treat LGBT in the name of shari’a/islam.

      You might not be a practicing muslim, but your ignorance to the reality that islam is the real reason behind the suffering of LGBT in muslim countries shows your brainwashing from the masjid isn’t quite over yet, since your knee-jerk reaction is to still blame the US or any other “foreign” entity as opposed to addressing the real problem. So…again…over to you: how are any of the muslim countries I cited here “lackeys of the US”

    • Knight

      Hussein also, I didn’t read what you said to MHoffman…but I just did…and that is blatant muslim propaganda, so I’m going to call you out/correct you.

      1) Shari’a is based on the sunnah, hadeeth as well as the qur’an. To say you disavow anything just because it is not in the qur’an is ridiculous. How to make salat /the number of times to make it is not in the qur’an either.

      2) Four witnesses must be produced for RAPE…not intercourse under shari’a. In many shari’a courts (i.e. in somalia and nigeria) a woman being pregnant is proof enough for intercourse. If she says it was due to rape, SHE must produce four witnesses…which as you point out is impossible, so the woman is typically stoned/killed while the man never prosecuted. The fact you support this is insane.

      4) Rape – we BOTH know shari’a and islam allows rape of concubines and slaves (i.e. what the right hand possesses). https://islamqa.info/en/20085

      You are proof that islam is simply incompatible with the west…certainly not with LGBT

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      It seems you and I are dancing in circles; I still maintain that there is a major difference when calling a country an Islamic republic and an Islamic country. A country encompasses more than it’s form of government and classically speaking in all modern interpretations and application of an Islamic republic system is quite distinctive from it’s populous. A country encompasses the culture and norms, art, literature and music of the populous, and that’s not exactly deserving of the label Islamic. That’s sociology 101. I can’t be clearer than that.

      As for the other countries you mentioned; Indonesia and Brunei are indeed American lackeys, all you have to do is Google US Indonesian military and political relations or US Brunei American bases and economic relations to see that if it wasn’t for American control and support, those governments wouldn’t be able to persecute their populations, all of their populations.

      I can post links to American academic studies on this topic alone. You being defensive and almost foaming at the mouth doesn’t change this reality; you call me ignorant yet you’re the one who’s uneducated in what your disgusting government does worldwide.

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      I wouldn’t be talking about the Quran and Sunna if I were you because it’s quite clear you don’t know what you’re talking about; the Sunna is second to the Quran and it cannot contradict the Quran, why do you think there are 8 versions of sharia?

      Salat is present all over the Quran and it’s application, times, how many bows and kneelings is specified within the Sunna; however stoning is no where mentioned or even hinted at in the Quran and that’s why clerics have been arguing over the stoning laws for over 1400 years.

      As for “those of which your right hand posses”; that’s a huge topic on it’s own, and no you cannot rape those wonen; no where in the Quran and the most accepted hadeeths that says you can rape them; you visiting websites here and there and posting objections on topics you know nothibg about is cartoonish and ridiculous.

      As for the four witnesses issue you raised, I agree that those countries you mentioned are applying the law “upside down” – Pakistan, Nigeria, and Somalia have been denounced by many muftis and ayatollahs for applying the law against the women victims. UAE has recently done the same thing to a British woman who was raped and she ended up imprisoned, it was several egyptian clerics who came to her rescue.

      You should be able to understand that laws are not always applied correctly or fairely; I can’t help you if your hatred of Islam makes you blind.

    • Knight

      Hussain, you don’t know me, so drop the personal attacks since it makes you look stupid. I know much more about islam than you do, and gave links to support my comments…you did not. I am not an American citizen, so you don’t get to use the “your government” game.

      Regarding Indonesia and Brunei, you are wrong. Neither are puppet regimes of the US anywhere near the extent KSA or Egypt are. If you have any proof to the contrary, go ahead and provide it. At this point I don’t think anyone will simply take your word on it.

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      Oh honey, spare me the “personal attack” bit – You don’t know squat about Sharia law, and the proof is in your responses, which are lacking any substance.

      The link you posted is supposed to be authoritative? Queen please; Brunei has an American military base on it, one of the largest in the region, and indeed, it is an American protectorate. As for Indonesia, I wonder who was selling Suharto the bombs and bullets he used on his own people, and who has “Anti-terrorism” bases all over the islands as we speak?

      You don’t care; you just want to push whatever jives with your beliefs; that is your problem not mine. I even told you what to search for on Google, I’m not doing your work for you.

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      I also love the bit about “anywhere near the extent KSA or Egypt are” – Well Indonesia may not be, but Brunei sure is; it doesnt make Indonesia any less of a Client state just because they don’t bow to their overlords in Washington.

      The American government, followed by my own government, and the western European ones can put all kinds of pressure on many of these dictatorships plaguing the Muslim world, and our “glorious”, “free”, and “respected” governments here in the “West” don’t care, especially if it goes against their “interests”, read here the interests of the ruling class and their military sales.

      Its disgusting shameful, and goes against every fiber of Western humanism.

    • Hussain-TheCanadian

      I also reread my responses – I personally attacked you? Where? You’re the one who’s extremely hostile, and for no reason either.

  • coffeeaugur

    First off, let’s start by not calling it gay sex. There is no such thing as gay sex. It is simply sex between to consenting adult men, and that is all it should be referred to as. There is also no such thing as heterosexual sex. It is just sex between a consenting adult man and woman. Both are capable of having anal sex or perform fellatio, so calling it gay sex or straight sex is simply asinine and promotes bigotry toward the gay community as well as the LGBTQ population.

    • mhoffman953

      @coffeeaugur

      I think you’re going overboard with the politically correct terminology stuff. Gay sex is sex between members of the same sex and straight sex is sex between members of the opposite sex. Nothing offense about stating that.

      If we want to follow your line of reasoning then why do you refer to the gay community as the “gay community”? Shouldn’t we all just be a community? Why call it the LGBTQ population? Shouldn’t we all just be a population?

      That’s where you go off the rails

    • Knight

      LOL….coffee sorry but you are SO wrong here. As someone who has both “straight” and “gay” sex often, I can say there is a VERY big difference.

      I have had sex with another guy AND his girlfriend, which neither he nor I would consider “gay” or even “bisexual” sex, since neither of us participated in the pleasure of each other in any way…it was all about his girlfriend. And on another occasion I had sex with a guy and HIS girlfriend, wherein he wanted me to do him from behind while he was doing her…which I obliged. That was gay sex, even though there was a woman participating.

      Don’t worry about labels; if YOU don’t like them, don’t use them. But some of us find them useful so as to know what we’re getting into ; )

    • Xzamilloh

      Yeah… that’s the takeaway from this article.

      Idiot

  • Jaxton

    Anal sex is the more correct expression, not gay sex. Anal sex can be perfotmed by man-woman and man-man. Strictly speaking, sex refers to fertilization, so it’s debatable whether a man can have sex with a man.

    The Uzbeki authorities are concerned about a man inserting his penis into the anus of a man. Why don’t they check women’s anuses too?

  • Clay83

    Muslim people are the first to start bleeting when they feel they are being discriminated against, they are however the most discriminatory lot, its time they had a taste of their own medicine

    • Knight

      Agreed. So true.

  • batesmotel

    Sad that this isn’t national news. Never heard of it. The only thing on the news is Trump and sexual assault allegations against new people. Everyday. People clearly don’t care about stories like this one.

  • cancorv

    Hi kids. I can’t say you have short memories, because you weren’t around in the 70s. But be assured that being arrested in your own home for homosexual activity was more than a possibility in Sydney, home of the greatest Mardi gras and Priscilla, to name but a few. I was living with my partner for 5 years illegally until that law changed in 1984.

    We also criticize Russia et.al for its laws against “spreading the word” but England had Section 28 until 2003. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28] . Not that long ago, in the scheme of things.

    I agree that what is happening in many parts of the world is appalling, but it wasn’t great in “the west” until recently. And even now we see backward steps being taken in parts of the USA and nationally in Turkey. And don’t get me started on that ridiculous postal vote in Australia last month.

  • Terrycloth

    Don’t doubt the article..yet I’m always leary of “various reports” various sources ” just write it. Omit words like those..makes it seems untrue or made up when those words are used imo

    • Knight

      Terry you are correct to be suspect. Amnesty International is probably the best source for information relating to these cases; if they didn’t cover it, it didn’t happen.

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