“The Christian registrar threatened with the sack when she refused to marry gay couples is taking her case to the Court of Appeal. Lillian Ladele, 48, from Finsbury [UK], has vowed to win what has become a landmark Christian rights case.
Mike Judge, a spokesman for The Christian Institute, said: “Clearly this is an issue on which people on both sides have strong feelings. But we think Lillian has been treated unfairly and that’s what we will be saying to the Court of Appeal. “We believe the decision that Islington council took to discipline Lillian for not doing civil partnerships was an over-reaction. They need to respect the rights of their religious employees too.”
Miss Ladele was a registrar for more than a decade before civil partnerships were introduced in 2005. She claims she was bullied and threatened with the sack when she told Islington council she did not want to carry them out.” [Evening Standard]
rick
if i remember correctly the decision they reached was DO THE DAMN JOB YOU WERE HIRED TO DO OR GET FIRED.
seems fair to me.
Kevin
Jesus Christ… as Rachel Maddow said… if you’re Amish, then don’t apply for a bus driving job. If you’re religiously opposed to doing an action your core job function requires you to do, then don’t be in that job.
Sean
Agreed – last time I looked, a registrar didn’t work for a church, they worked for the city…and the city has laws and if your religious views (no matter how archaic and moronic) prevent you from completing your job…
…enjoy the unemployment line or STFU.
The precident set by “Religious Rights” victories of this nature is frightening – if my particular religion was opposed to black people getting married to whites, JEEBUS CHRIST we’d have a wholly different conversation.
ajax
If duly enacted leglislation required that my employer change my job description and/or job function, and I refused to comply with those changes, I don’t think my employer would have any choice other than to fire me.
What doesn’t Ms. Ladele understand about the concept of “job”?
Jaroslaw
Well said all, but there is another twist to this. I don’t know if I’m going to say this right, but alcoholics get married, child molesters get married; many things occur in society where people have rights but that doesn’t mean in issuing them marriage licenses that the person or government entity approves of their behavior. It only means they can get married.
If every person stopped working or shopping or whatever at every place that didn’t meet with their approval 100% the world would cease to exist.
It is very hypocritical of any Christian group to get all excited over the SSM issue when people are getting killed in wars everyday, child prostitution exists all over the globe, people don’t have health insurance etc. People forget there are wars going on somewhere in the world all the time. Just because we are blessed to live in the US or Europe where this is not happening doesn’t mean it is peaceful everywhere.
blake
Not this lame story again. Queerty beat the heck out of this story last year.
It’s like this: there are Muslim cab drivers who refuse to take dogs in their cars because the feel dogs are unclean. Their refusal carries over to guide dogs for the blind. The result was that the drivers were told to adjust to their way of thinking or quit being a taxi driver.
(Note: I’m not comparing a gay person to a dog. I’m comparing somoen using a religious conviction to deny service that violates equal treatment of individuals before the law.)
Disgusted American
This dumb bitch needs to be shipped to the backwoods in Alamabam or Mississippi…aqnd see how she likes bein’ Treated by the Backwoods/backwards whities…..what an asshole this lady is….damm, I’d love to give her a peice of my mind, then tell her where she can INsert her Buy-Bull. Lets hope UK’s court PUTS her in her place!
andy
Every time I see her smug face I want to scream! This was a horrible decision by british courts.
Jaroslaw
Andy – no decision has been made. She’s taking it to court. England is reasonably progressive, she’ll most likely lose.
As to the story last year, same issue yes, but I’m almost positive it was a different (black) woman. Interesting, that.
Sebbe
“They need to respect the rights of their religious employees too.” – Not when they are employees of the state and payed by tax dollars.
Tallskin
She lost her appeal with an employment tribunal only last week, so is now taking it further, up to a higher court. And costs were awarded against her.
http://www.secularism.org.uk/evangelical-registrar-appeal-ref.html
This woman’s case is being backed by very rich and powerful religious groups from within and without the UK. As it’s all part of the international culture wars.
So far, the religious have lost most of the battles here in the UK, with equal age of consent, protection under employment discrimination etc etc. For them it has been ten or more years of defeat after defeat. So, they put all their force behind issues such as this.
The UK govt told the catholic church to fuck off a couple of years ago when the poop’s reps complained about gay adoption and when they realised they would not be able to refuse gay couple to adopt kids.
Tallskin
Oh, here’s a very interesting set of stats I tracked down.
it shows that the more religious an area or country is then the worse it is for gays and lesbians
http://www.gallup.com/poll/116491/Religiosity-Perceived-Intolerance-Gays-Lesbians.aspx
the proportion of residents who say their communities are not good places for gays or lesbians to live increases dramatically in countries where more people say religion is important in their daily lives. In the world’s least religious countries — which are predominantly European states — a median of 25% report that their communities are not good places for gays and lesbians to live. At the other extreme, in the “most religious” countries — which are predominantly in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East — a median of 84% perceive their local communities this way.
It’s important to note that the world’s most religious countries, as defined in this article, tend to be located in much poorer regions than the least religious countries. So to some extent, residents of these countries could be less likely to say their communities are good places for anybody to live.
But these regional differences alone don’t account for the connection between religiosity and perceived acceptance of gays and lesbians. Separate analyses within each world region show that citizens of more religious countries are more likely to report intolerance.
(Click on the link to see more)
kevin (not that one)
She’s wasting her time, but I do like her hair.
That smug look of self-righteousness totally spoils the look, though.
getreal
As a straight black christian this embarrasses me and makes my blood boil! This woman will look back twenty years from now and feel shame at the choices she is now making. What a hypocrite!
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
Ahh….!!
Haaa….!!
Can I say boring?? This women is so mad…
tavdy79
@Kevin: “if you’re Amish, then don’t apply for a bus driving job.”
It’s not that straight forward in this case. Ms. Ladele was doing the job long before the Civil Partnership Act was passed in 2004; in fact I believe she was doing the job before Labour even came to power – it was during the 1997 election campaign that SSM/CPs first became part of Labour’s manifesto.
As it happens, the piece above is somewhat inaccurate since she’s been denied the right to appeal the outcome of the employment appeals tribunal (EAT) hearing late last year. That leaves her with two options. Her first option is to take a case challenging the EAT outcome to the Court of First Instance (CFI), which hears cases brought by European citizens against their governments; if unsuccessful, the case could then be appealed to the European Court of Justice (ECJ), the highest Court of the EU (the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) is technically higher, but only has jurisdiction over individual EU states, not the EU itself; the EU will become subject to ECHR rulings if/when the Lisbon Treaty is ratified – IR, DE, CZ and PL still have to do so).
The other option is to take a similar case to the ECHR. This is, to me, the more likely of the two – Ms. Ladele can only take a case to the CFI & ECJ if there are relevant Directives (EU laws) covering her situation that pre-dated the relevant time period, and I doubt any such Directives exist – they could cause a constitutional crisis if found to be in conflict with ECHR case law, and the ECHR cannot strike down EU law until the EU is within its jurisdiction. So I think this case will be heard by the ECHR.
Jaroslaw
Tavdy79
As I mentioned way earlier, issuing a license does not mean you approve of same sex marriage any more than buying a Toyota car means you approve that the chairman of the board is cheating on his wife.
Not to mention the fact that the laws of Britain and the European Union allow same sex marriage and/or expressly allow for persons to choose the life partner of either sex.
I fail to see how this woman has a case. Her job description changed – and she either lives with it or finds another job. We are not talking about murdering children or pouring gasoline into the water supply or any other repugnant, (stress ILLEGAL) thing.
sal
u know what i say,just as if it was some racist(i’m half black)refusing to sell me,i would take my money somewhere else.forget her ignorant self!i say dont give her your money,boycott her butt!
alan brickman
a public servant performs public service…she should lose her job…we don’t need this person near anything…
Telly_Smitts
Please guys, just please let this story fade away… we don’t need any RR’s funding her legal services!
Charles J. Mueller
@tavdy79:
Times change and so do people convictions.
How would Ms. Ladele feel if she went before a white registrar who has deeply held racist feelings about white and blacks marrying and denied her a license based on those personal convictions?
Moot question, obviously. That bigoted registrar would be collecting unemployment insurance and looking for a new job.
And no court’s time and energy wasted on a trial either.
No matter how long I live, I will never understand how a black person, of all people, can discriminate against anyone having their civil-rights for any reason whatsoever. Did not their own experience teach them how terribly wrong discrimination is?
Then again, she appears to be too young to have experienced the discrimination against black people and it all lost on her.
How quick we forget.
blake
@Charles J. Mueller:
Your analogy about interracial marriage supposes that this woman cares about interracial marriage and that interracial marriage is of more importance to someone of African ancestry. Why should interracial marriage be more important to a person of color? Do you believe that a person of color somehow feels that there is some kind of honor to marrying a white person? Statistically, in the United States, African-Americans are least likely to marry someone of another race. Instead, most interracial marriages take place between Latinos and whites or Asian and whites.
Moreover, since this woman is BRITISH, you are presuming that UK law had banned interracial marriage up until recent years. However, any review of British history would show that interracial marriage had been legal in the UK for hundreds of years. For instance, PBS.org explains that Queen Elizabeth’s great great grandmother Queen Charlotte was part black.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/royalfamily.html
(If you cannot understand it, I’m really tired of people pushing this stupid line about how black or other people of color should be grateful for interracial laws that let them marry whites.)
Also, why are you so shocked that a black person is bigoted? Look at how racist some white gay men who contribute to this site are whenever a black man is shown in Morning Goods. Aren’t white gay men the victims of bigotry. After the Prop 8 debacle, weren’t there vicious anti-black racist attacks from some white gay men?
This woman is British. What do you know of her background? How is her religious bigotry any different from the religious bigotry we see from white anti-gay bigots like Rick Warren or James Dobson?
Instead of focusing on this woman through a lens of race, why can’t you look at her as simply another religious person? It’s simply easier to traffic in racial stereotypes than deal with the reality of a human being acting on her religion.
Charles J. Mueller
@blake:
Hit a nerve, did we?
getreal
@blake:
Instead of focusing on this woman through a lens of race, why can’t you look at her as simply another religious person? It’s simply easier to traffic in racial stereotypes than deal with the reality of a human being acting on her religion
I agree!
Charles J. Mueller
“It’s simply easier to traffic in racial stereotypes than deal with the reality of a human being acting on her religion”
Yes. I keep forgetting that bringing up the issue of racial stereotyping and screaming racist is only correct if certain people indulge themselves in it.
All others are prohibited (censored) from doing so by the straight lady who has hijacked this site as her own personal platform under the guise of being a gay political activist.
This comment, btw, is from the person who just said, on another thread, that calling black people “savages” is admirable.
Doh!
getreal
Here is the thread as usually stirring things up and making things up here is the thread when he picks on a guy and calls him racist when he was clearly not doing anything but asking people to be intelligent and calm not immature and vicious in their insults. Here is the link read what this guy wrote there was nothing wrong with it. This guy just likes to pick on people he has a history of it the site actual threatened to ban him if he didn’t stop
http://www.queerty.com/mormons-mad-at-big-love-20090310/
getreal
Read him try to run off straight allies (they don’t deserve to be on our thread) christian supporters of equality (all christians are evil and to blame for everything) anyone who preaches marching and organizing instead of just getting angry (anyone who doesn’t want to attack allies instead of the opposition is stupid). Interesting how this guy is on this site attacking people on the same side why doesn’t he go to anti-gay sights and take all his venom out on them? Makes you wonder. Is he even on the same side? Why does he try to run every ally off and attack anyone who preaches constructive not destructive action toward change. I hate to sound like a conspiracy but i’m getting a picture of a fundamentalist preacher deliberately trying to create chaos.
Read his comments and see how bad they get does that sound like a gay person seeking equality? No it doesn’t.
http://www.queerty.com/good-riddance-to-james-dobson-20090227/
http://www.queerty.com/q-how-many-lawyers-does-it-take-to-overturn-prop-8-20090302/#comments
strumpetwindsock
There is a similar case here in Saskatchewan. A marriage commissioner was fined for refusing to perform a marriage. Last November he filed a lawsuit against the province.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/05/30/sask-marriage-commissioner.html
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=1037082
The law is different from province to province here. Some don’t have laws yet, and I believe Ontario allows commissioners to decline performing services.
Seems bad to me, since they are actually officers of the court, how can they decide to only uphold part of the law?
Charles J. Mueller
She’s rolling out the cannons again and calling for reinforcements.
“Read his comments and see how bad they get does that sound like a gay person seeking equality? No it doesn’t.”
Only person on these threads that asks rhetorical questions and answers them herself.
“I hate to sound like a conspiracy but i’m getting a picture of a fundamentalist preacher deliberately trying to create chaos.”
You don’t hate it. You love making it look like a conspiracy. It’s exactly the same charge the christers and Mormons are making against gays.
Getparanoid much, do ya?
getreal
Hilarious!
sal
@blake: blah bblah blah,i literally feel just as offended when someone treats me inferior cause of my ethnicity as when someone treats me inferior cause of my sexuality.i dont give a rats behind what u think,i live it,do u???