Yesterday, we told you about how a hastily assembled Prop. 8 related press conference staged by El Coyote, a dive Mexican restaurant in L.A. that’s been a longtime gay watering hole, went about as well as the invasion of Iraq. We now have video of the event, in all its sad, emotionally charged glory. Above is Marjorie Chrisofferson, partial owner of the restaurant, talking about the $100 contribution she made to the Yes on 8 campaign.
Below is the aftermath. It turns out the person who asked Marjorie whether she would be willing to donate money to repeal the amendment is none other than Sam Page, co-founder of the long shuttered gay mag, Hero. Anyway, if you’re like me, you’ll feel conflicted watching the tape as people rightly point out that Marjorie “is not our friend if she votes to take away civil rights” and another owner despairs “This was not the way it was supposed to go” as Marjorie is quickly shuffled out of the restaurant.
Watch the El Coyote Prop. 8 Debacle
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G Singer
Damn, that’s one frustratingly dark video. And it stops just when it’s about to get good! Anyone tape the part where everything goes insane?
G Singer
Oh, nevermind, stupid scroll button! But it’s still dark!
Brian
If that phony bitch really cared about the other workers there, she’d step down.
Fuck her!
Plushie Schwartz
Let the bitch cry. I feel no sympathy for her whatsoever. You can’t play this “gee I think you’re super cool, but please don’t drink out of that fountain” game and expect to get away with it. Fuck her.
Joe
@Brian: “If that phony bitch really cared about the other workers there, she’d step down.
Fuck her!”
@Plushie Schwartz: “Let the bitch cry. I feel no sympathy for her whatsoever. You can’t play this “gee I think you’re super cool, but please don’t drink out of that fountain” game and expect to get away with it. Fuck her.”
And we’re the HATERS? I’m losing my tolerance for this bullshit, and you idiots are going to start losing allies because you’re acting like bullies.
Nick
@Joe: Sorry that we’re not the first in line to dig our own ditches at Auschwitz, Joe. Actions — and donations — have consequences. If we want to have any voice as a community, we’ve got to stand up for ourselves — NO exceptions.
Where would the African-American civil rights movement have gone if a bunch of black people in Montgomery, Ala. decided not to boycott the bus system because it would be too inconvenient and might make it hard on bus drivers?
Joe
@Nick: So you’re defending hating this person because of her opinion?
Mark
That was incredibly sad to watch. I don’t think her donation is appropriate, but christ, a little empathy and “tolerance” might be nice.
Joe
@Joe: Auschwitz… How fucking DARE you piggyback on the suffering of those people to legitimize your plight. That’s disgraceful.
DairyQueen
I am very conflicted about the witch hunt. Part of me says go after the business owners who take our gay dollars and pretend to be our friends, then the other part think it was just a 100.00 and why did our community decide to go to her press conference instead of just stop going to that resturant. She obviously wanted to make a media circus out of this. We all need to take a breath and look @ what we are doing. We are becoming no better than the yes 8 people that we dislike so much.
I say just boycott a place of business that has a business owner donated to the Prop 8 and leave it at that. The owner’s lack of sales will be noticable. If they want to meet the GLBT community, than it needs to be on our turf without the media.
Joe
@DairyQueen: We’re not in agreement but thank you for slowing down and thinking about this.
Al Benson
There is a role for making examples of her and of Marriott…you attack us or any minority group and you can expect blowback from them.
I think we need to go after the big bux by insisting that Sundance move out of Utah. That would be a 6 billion dollar kick to their heads.
John K.
If her personal religious views are harmful to the restaurants business, she should step down from whatever position she is in. Simple as that.
Jaime
i support the boycott and would help it in any way possible BUT to me this is starting to look like a witch hunt.
I believe that with the resignation of eckerns, we should really look for other ways to vent our anger.
I really do believe though that with the show of force we are showing all over US, people won’t think of us a pushover anymore.
John K.
Joe: When the kid who gets picked on all the time finally knocks the bully’s teeth out, that doesn’t make the kid a bully.
shivadog
This isn’t just “her opinion” she gave money to take our rights away. Where was her “empathy and tolerance”? And remember it was gay people suffering at auschwitz too, not just jews. If we don’t fight for our rights it could be us next. We do need to be careful to target the right people, I’ve seen a lot of lists of “mormon” businesses that,as far as I can determine aren’t owned by or affiliated with the mormons, but to those people that actually donated to prop. 8, even (or maybe especially) the ones who claim to be our friends, I say fuck them. We would be idiots to give them any money, and are well within our rights to boycott them.
James
Some of you guys are absolutely disgusting. How can you possibly compare Prop 8 with the Holocaust. Morons, I am getting sick of hearing all this bullshit, gay people calling black people the n word, people being beat up because they supported Yes on 8. Its disgusting, you are WORSE than those people. Why can’t you do it peacefully? Haven’t you learned anything from the civil rights era? from Ghandi? MLK jr?
Wolf
@Jaime:
No its not. If you act upon something you shoudle expect consequences. REGARDLESS of it being a “personal donation” as she says. She makes money of the gay community. Then gives it to The Mormon Church and supports Prop 8. She did NOT have to give money. She could have simply voted and kept her support private. I ahve no sympathy for her. or others who made public donations of money.
John K.
Joe and Mark: Get a clue. This isn’t about not being happy about which tax code was enacted. This isn’t about being upset that the sports program at the local high school is gonna get ten times the funding as the arts and music program. Those are the things that are proper for a democratic vote, and those are the things the losers should move on from. IF YOU EXPECT US TO MOVE ON OR TO HAVE ANY TOLERANCE FOR THESE PEOPLE, THEN YOU MISUNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF TOLERANCE! No one is blaming her for BEING a mormon or even holding the beliefs. If she stood up there and said her religious beliefs were not consistent with same-sex marriage, but she declined to give money to either side and she simply voted no (or maybe even declined to vote at all), then this would be a completely different story. But that’s not the story. She actively campaigned against our rights, and now she pays. It’s the only way we have to fight right now. What else can we do but take it out financially on the people that hurt us? How can you blame us?
The Milkman
There’s a difference between hating someone for their beliefs and being outraged by the hypocrisy of a donation to Prop 8 by a woman whose business has long benefitted from gays and lesbians. If her faith is so important to her, why is she selling liquor to homos in the first place?
Sorry, it just rings hollow… as though the tears were because of fear and frustration at being found out rather than understanding and remorse over her support of a bill that hurt the very people to whom she owes her livelihood.
So no… I don’t think a witch hunt is in order. But hypocrisy like this is too hurtful to ignore.
John K.
James, when we vote to take their rights away, THEN you can call us worse than then. Until then, you’ve simply got no credibility when you say that. Sure, Prop. 8 was not the holocaust, but Nick is right, gays were part of that too. It’s the same sentiment to a vastly different degree.
By the way, boycotts are peaceful. WHY SHOULD WE GIVE OUR MONEY TO PEOPLE WHO WILL FORWARD IT TO THOSE WHO WOULD HARM US??? Wouldn’t that just be stupid of us? Give me a fucking break.
Othniel
@Joe I had not been aware that any person other than the President of Iran ever denied the suffering gays, gypsies and others underwent in Nazi Germany. In fact many persons have expressed to me a sort of solidarity, and I have actually shared a few laughs over the odd coincidence of Donahue calling Gays “fascists” while The Pope is trying to quiet the Jews down so he can make a saint out of the WW II Pope.
You can scream and rant over the protests, however, one thing it does signify is that while everyone seems to have expected gays to bend over and take this, some people acting outside the closet of alleged “gay leadership” have finally responded to that idea, “Yeah we do, but only with each other.”
The Ms. Manners “how dare I ever offend anyone?” and please keep inviting me to high tea days are quite numbered. I am a Gay 54 year old Constitutional lawyer from Texas and I will confront every member of the bar I find who supported this hate, because when the bigots passed it in Texas they said – “oh you can always go get a lawyer to give you all those rights.” All consumers of legal services ought to know when they are dealing with a firm that has a partner supporting this bullshit while accepting their cash.
I see no difference here with this poor woman who should have thought before she acted, and am so glad the rights I studied and have enforced by representing people in legislative hearings before the Texas State Senate and United States Congress, state and federal courts (including SCOTUS), and in the marketplace of ideas are finally considered as important as high tea or cocktails.
Revolutions are by nature uncomfortable for someone, and I really think Ms. Manners never got around to writing how to behave during one. We really did not even pick this fight – the religious right and their allies did. The only Gay agenda I ever saw was “Please leave us alone” which really apparently should have been “Leave us the FUCK alone.” Karl Rove started this. Let him apologize to Marjorie.
Ray
she made a PRIVATE DONATION. let her live her life, please, whether you agree with it or not. she shouldn’t have to quit her job because of her views on gay marriage. that’s outrageous.
John in CA
@Joe: Sorry, Joe “the Plumber,” but you’re simply another ignorant, arrogant bigot who hides behind the veneer of free speech.
By the way, I’ve yet to see a right-winger use the term “free speech” correctly this entire election season. I guess that’s what happens when the party of William F. Buckley becomes the party of Sarah Palin. Let me spell it out to you succinctly. As defined by the Supreme Court, this doctrine only shields you from retribution when it involves the government. It doesn’t mean the targeted audience has to treat you with any semblance of respect. Nor does it protect you from lawful protests, strikes, and boycotts. Nor does it guarantee you unfettered access to a forum of your choice.
Since we aren’t federal agents or state workers, and this is a privately owned website, we aren’t legally required to take any of your nonsense with “civility.” Likewise, the protestors can do whatever they want outside of El Coyote, so long as they’re peaceful.
G. Singer
@Joe:
Of course, dummy! Just like it makes sense to hate individual KKK members because of their opinions. What, we have to love people even their opinions are that gays are 2nd class citizens? No way.
Rudy
There was never a movement that started peaceful. Its only been 1 week, people are still angry, people aren’t thinking properly.
I believe in boycotting the businesses and hit them where it hurts, their pocketbooks. But there was no need to yell at her the way they did. Just like the lady from palm springs who had her cross taken and stomped on. We (gays and straights who do not support prop 8) should know better. We could have listened to what she had to say, asked our questions properly and then just boycotted if need be. yelling at a person doesn’t solve anything.
Px
@Joe:
Um… She brought it upon herself!
There is no difference between her and the crazy bigoted white people of the 60’s that said that they “like black people, but they don’t think they should sit at the front of the bus with us”, or drink from the same water fountain or get married to whomever they love no matter the color of their partners skin. Let her cry at the prospect of loosing friends.
We were NEVER her friends if she really believes that we don’t have the same rights as her. Anyone that keeps BASIC rights from someone with whom they are friends is not a friend of ANYONE! We are tired of being treated like 2nd class citizens and if people are “bullied” then so be it. They have bullied us to no end and now it’s their turn!
ask ena
@ RAY-
I agree. She should not have to step down, or change her views, or stop contributing to political causes shrouded in religion, whatever they may be.
She may do as she wishes, and as long as she continues to be eluded by the contradiction of her apology, she and her restaurant deserve to lose every penny we have ever given them.
I would be very pleased if she changed her tune and made a public announcement of her support to overturn Prop. 8. That ain’t gonna happen, looks like.
Bob
Conflicted, Japhy? Hell no! She’s a bigot who funded discrimination. I’m not conflicted. I’ll never give her or her business another dime. You might feel bad and conflicted over someone who turns our community into second-class citizens. I do not.
And Ray, you are really fucking ignorant. Why should we patronize a business and make money for one of it’s owners who uses that money to discriminate against us? Yes, she has the right to do whatever she wants with her vote and her money. But we have the right to respond however the hell we want. We don’t have to coddle the bigot who funded a hate-filled attack on our community. She and her fucking cult church brought this on herself. Period.
ask ena
I wish, I hope that all the religious zombies who blindly followed the instructions of their leaders to support Prop. 8 are waking up to the reality of their actions. I know it’s doubtful, wishful thinking on my part. But that is one reason, for me, that the protesting, marching, and boycotting continue. People must think before they act, especially when the lives and livelihoods of so many others are affected, and their own are not at all.
Bob
Poor Joe is all distraught that we don’t simple go back in the closet and hide and wait for the rest of society to decide to treat us equally. Fuck you too, buddy.
Wolf
@Ray:
Actually Donations to Political causes are PUBLIC. they are NOT PRIVATE. That is why you have to fill out the info. Its a matter of public record.
I suppose a “Private” donation to the KKK is also acceptable.
She can be as phoney and riughteous as she wants. She has profited off gay people and then in turns donates part of that profit to take away civil rights. She deserves evetyhfin she gets.
Wolf
Oh and while we are fighting over poor Mormon Marjorie whose husband wears magic underwear….
The Family Research Council has issued an “action alert” via e-mail for people to e-mail Governor Schwarzenegger and request that he NOT support an over turning of Prop 8.
We need to counter this by e-mailing, writing, and calling his office asking him to continue to support Marriage Equality.
http://gov.ca.gov/interact
Japhy can you please post this as a story? Thank you
Jon Justin Fiddler
This is all too melodramatic. She donates to gay charities, then reverses and donates against gays. Is that Ok? To take money from gay people and then use that money against them?
And it’s stupid for us to give them the money.
She has a press conference, and then is upset because people came who wanted an explanation.
BTW For a faithful Mormon it’s not ok to drink a margarita. But is it ok for her to sell them?
Also: Please stop comparing Prop H8 to Auschwitz or slavery, or even AIDS… It’s just tacky and erroneous. Which is not to say that we should not be vigilant, against that slide.
Jon Justin Fiddler
@James: Who got beat up for supporting Prop H8? WHO? Citations? Links please, to news sources? Video? You’re spreading rumors.
Heard of Matthew Shephard? Remember him, you crusty tool?
As far as the “N” word? Oh my! Being called a faggot by a black dude is a lot more common.
And no one yelled at this woman on this video? WHERE IS THE YELLING?
Rudy
@Jon Justin Fiddler:
One of the No on 8 Protesters yanked a sign off a truck that said Yes on 8, and the guy came out of the car and punched him in the face knocking him down. Unfortunately the protester was taken to jail. THis happened the day they protested at the Mormon Church last week
Lucky Pierre
Joe: Witch hunts . . . How fucking DARE you piggyback on the suffering of those people in the middle ages to legitimize your plight. That’s disgraceful!
Jesus Friggin Christ, people. Nobody was saying this equals the holocaust. But why shouldn’t someone (a part owner of the restaurant) be held accountable for her actions against the very community that keeps her in business. As someone pointed out, she’s already a hypocrite. If she’s so entrenched in the mormon church, how the hell does she justify earning a living by selling alcohol to homos? So poor Marjie shed some tears, that’s tragic. I’ll keep that in mind the next time some redneck asshole with Utah plates screams FAGGOT out the window of his truck.
rem
@DairyQueen: I don’t see how $100 is any less hateful than $1000000
jeff
If the restaurant had donated, then I would support boycotting the restaurant. But this was one person acting on her own for $100. El Coyote has been a gay – friendly restaurant for years and deserves the support back. It’s a shame that the owner was so stupid to think it wouldn’t come back to her, and she obviously handled the situation badly. If she had really been interested in making a difference, her contribution would have been a lot more – like the ones who donated $100K or more. I think we need some perspective here.
Ray
oh dear
Joe
Well, I’m kinda glad I wandered in here to see what kind of crazy we are up against. The good news is you let me speak my peace without banning me and you can take it as well as dish it out. The bad news is that this is a dark festering rat hole that bears no resemblance to the America I want for me and my kids. While I am still committed to teach my kids not to hate gays or anyone else, I’m going to make sure they know what hateful, vile people you’ve become and they will damn sure discriminate about who they trust with their hearts.
And the day your agenda is forced on my kids through the government run schools, expect more than just fireworks. You can expect to lose.
Joe out.
Rudy
@Joe: What agenda? Equality? Schools should teach equality.
and yeah, good job teaching your kids to discriminate, what a great example you are.
nuflux
@Joe: “And the day your agenda is forced on my kids through the government run schools, expect more than just fireworks. You can expect to lose.”
Well, you just outed yourself as the bigot you are. You’re on the wrong side of history, and you can expect to be made irrelevant. And I think the best “punishment” for you would be to see your kids support equal rights and fairness for GLBT people and our “agenda,” fuckwad.
Lucky Pierre
I don’t think Joe just “wandered in here.”
Crymeariver
Oh CRY ME A RIVER! She’s cying because she EXPOSED as a BACKSTABBER to the VERY PEOPLE whom supported her business, and of course, at the thought of financial loss.
$$$$$$$$$$
REAP WHAT YOU SEW BIOTCH!
whistler
@Joe: No one is hating this woman for an opinion. People are pissed because of her ACTIONS! She contributed to a deceitful campaign that slandered the gay community and stripped us of our rights.
Jim
@Ray: No one is saying she has to quit her job. We are just not going to give her anymore of our money to use against us. To not do so would make us a party to our own discrimination.
Jim
@Joe: Feel free to leave. The rest of us would be better off.
whistler
One other thing. This was on the news yesterday. Her son told the angry customers that she didn’t know her contribution was a matter of public record. Which suggests she knew perfectly well her customers would be hurt and pissed off if they knew what she did, but she did anyway because she thought she could get away with betraying her “friends.”
Nick
@Joe: Yes, I am.
Phoenix (Who's not giving money to the Religious Reich like some dimwitted Uncle Tom)
Here’s where I again explain why people are boycotting and picketing El Coyote once again:
1.) Mormons are 2% of the population of California.
2.) The Church of LDS sent out a memo to it’s entire congregation to donate to “YES On H8”.
3.) Members of The Church of LDS tithe 10% of their income to the Church that sent out the memo to support “YES On H8”.
4.) Individual Mor(m)ons and The Church of LDS donated 40% to 70% to “YES On H8”.
5.) Giving money to members of The Church of LDS is the same as giving money to “YES On H8”.
6.) Not giving money to members of The Church of LDS means they won’t be passing it on to “YES On H8” type lobbying or The Church of JS LDS.
Can you understand why GLBT boycott/protest Marjorie Chrisoffersen and El Coyote now? Is that simple enough? If you give money to people who donate to anti-gay legislation, it is the same as donating to anti-gay legislation yourself.
Tim Kelleher
@Joe: I think its good your here, as much as I think many of your comments have had an incredibly hostile under tone. I also think that many of us are struggling with years of pent up anger and trying to find an outlet. Issues of civil rights, family, religion and law are by definition complex and inspire intense feelings. But, at the end of the day we do not build a more perfect union by allowing majority to vote against minority. I appreciate the tolerance you are teaching your children, perhaps they won’t deliver to their gay classmates the violence I received growing up. And while the holocaust comments are tough to stomach, it is an irrefutable truth that many gays and lesbians paid for their love with their lives in those camps.
So no, Prop 8 is not Auschwitz….yet. The rage many of us are feeling now will turn into something less confrontational and more productive, but we have earned the right to be angry.
And wether we march, boycott, editorialize or chain ourselves to Mormom temples, this is America, we have that right still at least. And if the end result of this “bullying” is that churches and business are afraid to donate to anti-gay causes well then..Hell to the Yes!
Bruno
And yet again, the Mormons try & turn things around to make it look like they’re being persecuted. The most passive/aggressive people on this planet.
It won’t work anymore, we’re onto you, you’re busted. That’s all we need to say to Joe.
Webster
Good grief — doesn’t anyone here know their history? As a matter of fact, gays WERE put in camps by the Nazis in WWII — along with the Jews. Aren’t you aware of the history of the Pink Triangle?
All it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing. That’s what this is all about. You can’t stand by and let anyone — anyone — take away your rights, whether it’s with a $10 donation or a $20 million donation! The amount of the donation doesn’t matter — the intent DOES. We can no longer allow people to take away our rights. Period.
Marjorie is just as responsible for her actions as anyone else and it must not stand! It must not! She is not less guilty for giving less — she is equally guilty for this travesty against liberty.
People must know — must understand — that actions have consequences.
Butterpantz
This makes me sick. I spent damn near every Tuesday night for years and spent my birthdays there at least four times. I love Isabel my favorite waitress.
I’m so conflicted…I love everyone there (except Marjorie, I always thought she was a dried out, leathery western republican). Oh and the guy who spoke up for her, Danny…he used to have the best ‘cobra hood’ hair back in the day. He did always give us the Sharon Tate booth when necessary;
I’m sad. Who’s going to buy me a margarita, on the rocks, from scratch with a splash of cranberry?
michael
@Joe: Joe, as a grandchild of 1 grandparent that survived Krakow, I will compare our suffering. Because it all began with rights being stripped away and then moved on to bigger things. This is the beginning of what could be potentially a greater evil. Somehow I find your presence on this site a bit suspect and get the feeling you are trying to manipulate people here. Maybe they could hire you for propaganda minister if their movement to oppress us moves forward. Also, the Nazi’s murdered many homosexuals as well. I have a bad feeling about you.
NoVAman
More interesting news on Prop 8:
Lesbian mom asked to quit PTA over Prop. 8
The Associated Press
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_10978629
FRESNO, Calif.—A lesbian mother in Fresno says she was forced to resign from her position as president of the parent-teacher association at her son’s Catholic school after she spoke out against banning gay marriage.
Rigato
@Joe: Auschwitz… How fucking DARE you piggyback on the suffering of those people to legitimize your plight. That’s disgraceful.
um Joe…THOSE WERE OUR PEOPLE. Hitler hated gays and gypsies more than he ever hated jews. And what do we get for it? A small, 5×5 foot wall in the memorial to those who died in the camps. Gee, thanks America, you really are sensitive to our suffering.
I for one, refuse to wear the pink triangle any longer.
michael
@Joe: She is no victim. Its really quite simple, she chose to persecute us with her cash. We are choosing to not do business with her. If she had of given money to the KKK or a neo nazi organization we would not be having this conversation. You may not think you are a bigot but your double standard may warrant some soul searching. Just as we are due the same rights as all others we are also due the right to use the same tactics as all others to get there. The blacks boycotted the bus company that refused front seats to blacks in the sixties. We don’t warrant using the same tactics? George Wallace destroyed his career over his actions during the Civil Rights Movement and nobody is looking at him as a victim. I have a zillion friends who are straight and encouraging that we are doing the right thing, somehow I believe that you are probably a Mormon using a soft tactic to throw us off our path. You, Joe and some of the others on here just don’t feel on the up and up, anyone else getting that feeling?
michael
@Rigato: Actually Rigato we have an amazing monument now in Berlin. It took forever to get it
but it is really awesome. If you ever are there make sure you visit.
michael
@NoVAman: While I think thats wrong I don’t understand why anyone would send their child to a school where they were likely to be taught hatred and intolerance for gay people, as well as potential sexually abused by a clergy person. I think its abusive to send a child to such an institution.
mark
Folks that aren’t sorry they fund HATE, just sorry they got caught funding HATE.
what will it take a nano second to find ANOTHER restaurant, probably a dozen on the same damn corner,
Joe Moag
I like the incessant references to El Coyote as a mecca for gay liberation, blah, blah, blah…Yes, on the Pantheon of human liberation, we have SCLC, NAACP, Human Rights Watch, El Coyote…
Wei
As she said, she is free to make personal donations to whatever she pleases. And we are free to take our business elsewhere.
Jjh
The food at el coyote is awful. I think all this discussion is moot. The food blows; boycott it cuz of that! 😉
richardmirwin
@Joe: Hey Joe? You wouldn’t happen to be a Plumber would you? You sure do sound like him. Or have you moved on to Joe the Homophobe?
By the way, after watching the tape, Marjorie just looks and acts guilty (as opposed to genuinely sorry). They don’t care about our rights. If they were genuinely concerned they would have answered the guys question directly. They did not. The staff are worried/freaked out about their business prospects in a shaky economy. They are just trying to excuse/spin her homophobia to save their asses and are annoyed at their gay clientele for not laying down and taking it.
Sam
I quit eating there 20 years ago, because our entire group got the screaming shits 2 times in a row. Go to Border Grill instead. Better food and maggies.
Chris
@James: Haven’t you learned anything from the civil rights era? from Ghandi? MLK jr?
How about what we learned from Malcolm X?
RomanHans
I’ve been a regular there for longer than I’ll admit, because of the cheap food, the fantastic crowd, the friendly staff, and the opiate derivatives in their margaritas. (Kidding. Kind of.) But the key to this is at the end of the clip: Ms. Chrisofferson says she’ll always support gays, and never give up her religion.
Unfortunately, you can’t have both.
Adios, El Coyote. It’s been great knowing you.
sparkle obama
fight the real enemy!
Cody
They cry when we mess with their paycheck. Let’s mess with more people’s paychecks. What a phony bitch…
cb
This seems to me to be a Martin Luther King vs. Huey Newton strategy on winning the hearts and minds of the public.
King was moderate and peaceful and made massive progress in getting blacks “equality”. Of course it took time and an amazing amount of patience in light of the bigotry and racism rampant in America.
The boisterous tactics of the Black Panthers perhaps impeded this progress as white America was revolted by the violence and venom of this movement.
The more vociferous and hateful the gay political tactics, the more alienation and consternation occur in the straight community.
I will give you the “straight” dope…most folks that I know voted yes on 8, but paradoxically would support the idea of legal, civil “unions”, wherein those couples would have all the “legal” rights as heterosexual couples.
Gays and straights are much too hung up on the word “marriage” and however much you want to moan and kick and scream at the injustice, from a strategic political viewpoint, in the short term, gays should give up on the word “marriage” and work hard to get a comprehensive national law recognizing civil unions.
As a political strategist, I believe that YOU ARE pissing off alot of straight folk which obviously you need to persuade to vote in your favor.
Dressing up in drag on the steps of S.F city Hall and having that lunatic Gavin Newsome screeching about “whether you like it or not” did not help you cause.
Its obvious that the “gay” agenda is having traction, the voting percentage against gay marriage has greatly narrowed in the last 8 years.
By following a smarter, less confrontational political agenda and emphasizing civil union recognition in all 50 states FIRST, the road to having social approval of gay “marriage” will be much shorter than you think.
In short, the gay leadership and their tactics are too much like Cleaver, Newton and X and not enough like MLK.
You guys lost an election and gay marriage was abolished, whether in the words of Gavin Newsome “you like it or not”.
The real issue is how to prevail.
Screaming intolerance, boycotts, and indignation do nothing politically to enhance the chances of overturning 8, but rather enhance the idiot opposition who uses this outrage to further rally the brainless voters.
Change your tactics and you will change the vote.
Read carefully some of the thoughtful comments here which take you to task on your strategies instead of disregarding them with your anger and bile.
After all the proof is in the electorate’s pudding…and you lost. Unfortunately.
Please feel free to politely disagree with me.
Jim
@cb: It shouldn’t be UP for a vote. If segreagation would have been voted on blacks would still be in the back of the bus. I don’t care what straight people think. We are just as entitled to the word marriage as they are. When you look at what they have done with marriage we might be even MORE entitled.
I suggest we start a movement to outlaw divorce and make adultury a felony. Wouldn’t that “protect” marriage and make the breeders happy?
Jim
@Jim: sorry for the spelling errors – I am P!SSED. I hope to see all of you (except Joe the Homophobe) at the protests!!!
cb
I am sorry, but for most straight folk, this whole business of comparing the plight of 400 years of african american slavery and repression to gay repression is completely fallacious and laughable.
My Irish grandfather would laugh when some Irish would compare past Irish discrimination with black discrimination by saying, “O’Malley can change his name to Smith and no one would know the difference walking down the street. If you are black, no way can you hide that fact.”
Please, quit using the equivalence of their plight with yours. A gay man walking down the street is much harder to identify than a black man walking down the street in Mississippi.
I know you are angry, mad, upset and generally p### off, but what good does that do you in the long run if this outrage produces more opprobrium which results in setting back your movement?
Whether you like it or not, marriage, the word should be abandoned and the push for comprehensive legal civil unions which give gay couples the same “rights” as straight couples should be the short term goal.
Polls taken show majority support for “gay civil unions.” Change the word unions to marriage and you get Prop 8 results.
Quit fixating on the word “marriage”. This is killing your agenda.
I know it may not be right and just, but it is the facts right now and it would behoove the leadership to take that into consideration when coming up with a new strategy which will shift focus more toward the legal standing of gay civil union rather than fixate on that damned word “marriage” which is loaded with religious connotations.
Please feel free to call me an idiot.
Joshua
Quit fixating on the word marriage?
Really?
Brown v. Board of Education? Separate and equal is inherently unequal…Ringing a bell?
Marriage is loaded with SOCIAL connotations. Marriage equality is an important and necessary step in social equality.
Even in the black civil rights movement, marriage equality came after the passage of the civil rights act. It is a key element to gaining SOCIAL EQUALITY and EQUALITY UNDER THE LAW.
The point is that religious marriage and civil marriage are not the same.
To those who say that gays should quiet down and not confront those who support LIMITING OUR RIGHTS, I say that that sounds an awful lot like, “Know your place, BOY.”
Joe Moag
Actually, Joshua, it sounds a whole lot like “the back of the bus gets their at the same time as the front of the bus…”
cb
Again, please stop equating the civil rights movement to gay marriage acceptance.
Its apples and oranges. This is a failed line of argument.
Don’t conflate slavery, Dred Scott, Reconstruction, Jim Crow, lynchings, Emmit Till, the KKK, church bombings, the Edmund Pettis Bridge with gay unions.
Its like comparing a hemorrhoid with AIDS.
By continually harping on “marriage” you will lose valuable political capital which could best be used to pass a national gay civil union bill which will give you all the “Rights” which you say are being limited right now.
If the Catholic church doesn’t want to “marry” gay couples, so the frig what? I don’t care. Thats their business and the separation of church and state should dictate we stay out of their affairs.
And if the Catholic church were to try and ban gay civil unions, that is equally wrong as the state should have the right to grant full legal status to those couples regardless of religious dictates and mores.
My point is that this fixation on “marriage” and not legal unions is killing your movement right now.
To keep wailing about the injustice does you no good.
I would bet a great chunk of change that within 5 years of civil unions being commonplace and breaking down barriers and people getting used to the idea…within 5 years the resistance to gay marriage will be a distinctly minority opinion (at least in california.
You need to look at the long term picture and change your tactics.
Jim
@cb: Civil rights are civil rights and should never be up for a vote. Yes black people are easy to identify – but who hasn’t seen an effimante man and “known” he was gay? We are equal citizens in this country. We pay taxes (more than married people in most cases) and deserve the same (THE SAME) rights and responsibilities as every other American. That includes the right to use whatever word we want and WE WANT AND DESERVE MARRIAGE. I don’t care if it makes str8s unhappy – if they are against gay marriage they don’t have to have one. You would think we were trying to make it mandatory the way you guys act. Grow a pair and let your fellow human have the same rights that you abuse.
Bruno
@cb:
Nothing is killing our movement. Our movement is only getting stronger by the minute.
cb
Again, what if you can have all the legal rights but not call it marriage?
Why can’t traditional religious marriage have the man-woman meaning while civil marriages convey the same rights and privileges to same sex couples.
Is this not the best compromise?
Or as homophobes insist, this isn’t really about rights but acceptance?
Jim
Civil MARRIAGE would be awesome. I won’t have anything to do with “religion” in any form anyway. Civil UNIONS are seperate but equal which is WRONG. No one wants to force Catholics or Mormons to hold gay weddings – just not to force thier narrow views on the rest of us.
Brian Miller
@Joe:
Joe, you jackass, gay people were at Auschwitz and condemned to death by Paragraph 175 in the Nazi penal code.
So fuck YOU and the illiterate horse you rode in on.
Brian Miller
@cb:
Just like to most white folks, black Americans comparing separate but equal schools for blacks to slavery and Jim Crow was “ridiculous” too.
Doesn’t change a damn thing.
Charles J. Mueller
Cb, you, like so many of our own, fail to recognize the basic difference between civil-unions and marriage.
Over and over, we hear the same, senseless, uninformed argument, even within our own ranks. “What’s the big deal over what we call it? Take civil-unions, which will give you all the same rights as a ‘marriage'”
Au contraire, monsieur. You, like so many people who argue in favor of civil-unions and registered domstic partnerships, which do grant some rights to same-sex partners, do not know the full, basic differences between the words.
This is not a question of semantics. It is a question of different end results. One cannot even argue that it is separate, but equal. It is unequal, in that many of the rights inherent in a “marriage”, are missing in a civil-union of domestic partnership. At best, such an arrangement is not only separate, it is unequal as well. A double whammy. And you would have us “settle” for that” I wonder what a black person back in the 60s might have said to you, had you tried using such a stupid argument with him?
You’d probably have gotten your nose busted or a blackened eye.
I am involved, like some 32,000 other couples in America, in a multi-national relationship with a Filipino partner of some six years now. Unlike str8 people, who can marry a foreign partner and then bring them to the US where they can petition the American government for citizenship, I am not allowed to do so, because the law says that I cannot “marry” a person of the same gender.
Even if I could somehow enter into a civil-union with him, or even go to another country that allows “marriage”, I still would not be unable to bring him into this country, since the FederalGovernment of the USA does not recognize marriages performed in another countries. This, in case you are not aware of it, is also true with marriages that have been performed in States like Massachusetts, Connecticut and California, with the recent exception of New York State, I believe.
So, it is a dog chasing his tail kind of scenario.
I cannot bring a foreign partner into the country unless I am married to that person. However, I cannot marry that foreign partner so that I can bring him into the country. Duh?
It’s a lose-lose proposition any way you look at it. Fucjed if you try to and fucked if you don’t.
So there you have it, CB. From your vantage position of being str8 and having the “equality” that we gays are striving to obtain, it looks oh, so amazingly simple to you. Just do this, this and this and voila…you’ll get everything you ever wanted.
Sorry, guy. It ain’t don’t be workin’ like that. Until you have walked a mile in another man’s moccasins, you will never know how it feels to be separate but equal. If you were in my shoes, I wonder how comfortable you would be feeling about having your family separated from you for months at a time, year after year, while bearing the cost of having to maintain two domiciles so that we can be together for at least a portion of that time.
Oh, and your argument about “piggybacking” on the plight of the black community. It doesn’t hold any water either, CB. 400 years of suffering by the blacks in America is definitely a bitter pill to swallow and no one, myself included, would ever dare to gloss over it as being of no consequence.
What was it you said…oh yeah “How fucking DARE you piggyback on the suffering of those people to legitimize your plight. That’s disgraceful.”
To that I reply, “How fucking DARE you tell us that it is disgraceful to piggyback on the suffering of those people to legitimize your plight.” That, is what is really disgraceful.
It only serves to show how ignorant you are with respect to history. Gay people, unlike blacks, have suffered through several thousand years of suffering that began long before the first black man was brought to the shores of America.
How magnanimous of you to champion the 400 years of suffering by blacks, while marginalizing the some two-thousand years of suffering endured by gay people
Now, would you care to bring up your comparison of apples to oranges argument again, if you dare?
sandy
So are you gonna go after the Muslims. There leaders told them to vote Yes on 8. That is on the news.
San Francisco own Chinese community in Chinatown voted Yes on 8. That was in the San Francisco Chronicle.
Black people voted 70 percent Yes on 8. Are Gays gonna attack them also?
sandy
So are gays in San Francisco going to boycott Chinatown?
Since they voted overwhelmingly against gay marriage.
jane doe
i voted no on prop 8 but i really don’t think that this is the way to handle things. targeting individuals is a sure fire way to do much more harm than good. i’m honestly freaked out by this situation. are the protesters secretly for prop 8 and doing their best impression of an irrational mob of bullies to make the mormons looks good by comparison?
Jojo
I have been a frequent El Coyote customer for many years. I know Marg and the servers. I am straight and voted NO on 8.You want people to accept you-you need to accept others. Love everyone for who they are and practice the tolerance you also want. Good things come through love and not hate. How does destroying Marg better your cause? You want the right to marry how you please, she wants the right to vote how she pleases. It doesn’t mean she hates you-it means she has different ideas of how marriage should be defined. She might have changed her mind over time-but you can’t win people over and change their perspective
by attempting to destroy them.
davidwf
What is it about this that you people don’t understand??? It is so simple! Why should I put money into the pocket of someone who takes that money to squelch my rights? What is so difficult for you hard heads to get? It’s not personal, it’s not a riot, it’s not hatred, it is a boycott. Anyone can support a boycott for any cause they feel compelled to support. DO YOU STILL NOT GET IT???? And I am sick to death of people spouting their mouths about how a civil union or domestic partnership is the SAME as marriage. Why don’t you take your uneducated minds and, I don’t know, maybe READ about the differences, educate yourselves before speaking! BOYCOTT EL COYOTE, CINEMARK THEATERS, EL POLLO LOCO, MARRIOTT, and any other narrow minded bigoted company. WE WILL WIN THIS!
fredo777
@Jojo:
That sounds all well + fine, but if you expect gay patrons of a business to “tolerate” the fact that their patronage of said business indirectly furthered an initiative like Prop 8, that’s a bit unreasonable.
It’s always easy to throw out the “you need to tolerate me, if you want tolerance” line of reasoning when confronted with opposition to views/actions that try to limit freedoms/rights based on one’s own religious beliefs.
Noone is saying that Marg shouldn’t be able to believe or vote how she pleases, but does that mean that we don’t have just as much right to protest her support of removing marriage rights that were already granted to persons like the patrons of El Coyote in this video?
“Destroying” her is a bit of a stretch, don’t you think? It’s just a matter of holding persons accountable + reminding them that their actions do have consequences + that support of measures like this will, undeniably, draw lines in the sand.
Paz
This is not be@sandy:
@Sandy, can you state your source?
Ben
@Charles J. Mueller: You’re mistaking CB with Joe. CB never made many of those comments you quoted them as saying. Most glaringly, it was Joe who said the ‘how dare you stuff’. CB on the other hand wrote a very thoughtful and insightful couple of posts about this issue and what the gay community should be doing NOW to gain political traction in the future. The point being made is not that gay couples should be content to accept civil unions, nor that they shouldn’t be outraged at being denied marital status. The point is that long term victory requires strategy and incremental progress. Civil unions will pave the way for marriage, and if everybody is smart and chills the hell out, that future could be realized relatively soon. On the other hand, all the vitriol right now (and the El Coyote fiasco is a good example) is only setting this movement back, possibly by years. You are handing the Yes on 8 crowd political capital they don’t deserve. Think about it. Sometimes when you play the game ‘all or nothing’ you get nothing. By playing to win over the long term you make incremental gains and eventually come out on top.
Capt W
Wow,
You gueens are real heros picking on old ladies.
If I was going to protest something I don’t think I’d start with a granny who gave a hundred cheap ass bucks.
Pathetic
Capt W
david
Ben, people aren’t finding this to be a game. This is very personal and a lot of previously married folks don’t have time on earth to wait and be patient until society is “ready.” There’s only so much wait and hope people can have before they get furiously angry.
But I think attacking El Coyote is not the way to go if an employee of the restaurant donates to support prop 8. If she were the owner, that’s a different story. But there is no hard evidence that says she is something other than the daughter of the owner. So this protest is wasting precious resources in protesting more deserving targets.
Ben
@david: The fact that the stakes are so high is all the more reason to be smart about it. You have to ask yourselves the question, what do we want to achieve by all this? If the answer is that we want gay couples to be able to legally marry sooner rather than later, then this is the wrong tactic. This thing is hurting the cause of equality and giving ammunition to the Yes on 8 crowd.
I understand people are angry. They have every right to be. But if they want long term results (as opposed to the instant gratification of retribution) then they will smarten their act up. All this looks like is an act of cruelty and cynical opportunism perpetrated against an individual for the sake of publicity and a platform, and the people trying to get this lady to donate to ‘No on 8’ especially are painting themselves as hypocrites. Do you not realize you are turning this woman into a martyr for the Yes on 8 cause? People at that press event were publicly pressuring her, under threat of financial reprisals, to contradict her religion! That’s an outrage! It’s counterproductive, classless and wrong, and totally inconsistent with how America is supposed to operate.
If people choose not to eat there that’s their business, but an all out campaign like this is a huge mistake.
GSM
As an openly gay man in Tennessee, I have never had to drink from a seperate fountain, or take a seat in the back of the bus. That argument won’t hold all of the water your “seperate fountain” can generate.
However, I do, on a daily basis conduct business with those that differ with me on many issues, not just this on. They are allowed, as am I, to hold views and beliefs without fear of reprisal. I am an adult, and I know that everyone doesn’t agree with me, nor I with them. Should I punish all who don’t agree with me? Sweet Jesus, I hope all that disagree with me don’t gang up to punish me! GROW
UP! Fight your battle as a grown up………PLEASE. What if all those that voted “yes on 8” decided to boycott Ellen or any other celebrity that donated time and money to our cause. It would reverse the tremendous progress that has been made by decades.
Open and compassionate dialogue is needed. Not hatred and revenge. It gets us nowhere.
Bruno
In both Marjorie & Scott Eckern’s cases, the strong backlash reaction was due to the fact that both places of business were very heavily staffed & patronized by the LGBT community. It’s those particular communities’ right to react how they do.
People seem to think we shouldn’t be angry because we want to gain marriage rights. You’re missing the point. We’re angry because that is our emotion, and no amount of pleading or persuasion is likely to change that. Hopefully, it won’t get out of hand, and eventually we can all move past it. But for right now, we have every right to be angry, and act accordingly within reason.
fredo777
@GSM:
Well, anti-gay groups boycott the brands, shows, etc. that they feel support/further the gay “agenda” all the time.
I’m not for personally “attacking” anyone over their vote, but I’ll be damned if I feel guilty about holding someone accountable for donating to a cause that removes my rights, even if that means boycotting their business/brand.
fredo777
@Bruno:
Word to that, Bruno. Word. to. that.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Robert
@Joe: Ride on those people? Homosexuals were those people. The Nazis rounded us up with the Jews as well, and killed us. You might want to Google the words “pink triangle”.
horus
because of your absent minded donation el coyote can rot in hell.
Brian Miller
What is it with southern gay men and their defense of oppression?
It seems like half the time someone is taking me to task for confronting homophobia, it’s a gay man in the South who is ready to “explain” why a homophobic church/business/politician/celebrity shouldn’t be confronted and how mean I am for disagreeing with them in public.
Falc
@Ray:
What’s outrageous is that someone who has known us, made millions of dollars off of us by selling mid-priced Mexican food to us, should both say that she rarely goes to vote, and say that she voted against our civil rights.
This isn’t her job, btw. She’s an owner. To think that she has known us all these years and still went out of her way to fund and vote against us, is this not amongst the worst forms of betrayal?
She has betrayed us, plain and simple. Had I known she would do this sort of thing, they’d never have seen dime-one of my money.
For the record, we’re not trying to GAIN civil rights. We’re procuring them back from the homophobes who would deny us those basic Constitutional guarantees. When the country recognizes that distinction, this will be over.
Falc
@Ben:
Ben,
I’ve heard the long-term vision/goal argument for a long time now. It’s hogwash. Change happens when we MAKE it happen. People put up with oppression and repression as long as they can, and then they fight back, Act Up, etc.
There are some people who don’t HAVE 10 or 20 more years to wait for another generation to arise with less homophobia. Moreover, there’s ample evidence that the bigots are raising another generation to be just like them.
You say to wait, to be patient. Tell that to the black guy who was dragged behind a truck by a rope around his neck until his head was torn off off. That was less than a decade ago. I suppose he should wait for equality? Even as we elect a half-black man to President, there are racial slurs, cross-burnings, kids being beat with baseball bats. The Waiting bit is not reality.
Reality is moderation. Reality is talking softly while carrying a big stick. Reality is both Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. Reality is Stonewall and David Geffen and Greg Louganis. Reality cannot be allowed to continue to include Matthew Shepherd, or all the others who have been brutally murdered since then, just because they were gay.
El Coyote is just an example. Right there in West Hollywood, the first “gay” city, there exists such a prejudice? How far can we really have come by the peaceful path, when something like this can happen?
We get equal rights when we rise up and seize the opportunity, when we demand them. I had a teacher in a business law class who correctly taught “We have no rights, except those we procure for ourselves.” This apparently includes Constitutional Guarantees of Equal Protection.
Nobody’s giving you anything. We take our power, we take that which is ours. I am a man who believes in peaceful resolution. To go a bit further, I believe that Creation is the opposite of War/Destruction, not Peace. Peace isn’t good enough. We ALL need to be Creating a world that allows all to flourish, one which doesn’t grant to one by taking away from another, whether that grant is food or liberty, or anything else. We CAN make solutions. But we aren’t the ones who created this circumstance. We were joyously enjoying the ability to marry. My first lover of 6 years had finally been able to marry the man he’d been with for the past 18 years. Then this assault on our civil rights comes up and, despite much work on our parts, passes, because some few people went out of their way to deny us our rights. These people, they attacked us, and CONvinced others to lend their vote to the attack. I don’t blame those who were conned. I DO hold accountable those who went out of their way and knew better. This restaurant owner is just one such person, but hers was a major act of betrayal.
Any business owner who is opposed to gay marriage within West Hollywood is quite free to take their business elsewhere, as far as I’m concerned, and I’d imagine the City Council would agree. West Hollywood is an Oppression Free zone. If you don’t agree that gay people are equal under law, there’s a whole state for ya up there in Utah.
There’s a creative solution. Give us our own state. You don’t recognize our marriages outside of that state (even though Reciprocity requires otherwise,) and we won’t recognize yours either. So when the heterosexual “Married” couple comes in from Utah, they’ll have to rent two rooms at the hotel, because we don’t cotton to heterosexuals’ extramarital affairs, and we don’t recognize your heterosexual marriage in our state. You and your “wife” will have to sleep in separate rooms, and pay a Heterosexual Disinfectant Fee as well. Or we can just have some sense about it all, opt for a Live And Let Live philosophy, grant all citizens of this country Equal Rights and Protections under the law, and get on with coming together to make it an ever greater nation for ALL of the People.
Make no mistake about it, we will not live as second-class citizens any longer. Good men and women have suffered far too long. Gay Rights is amongst the very last holdouts of the eras of religious repression, and we will fight as hard and much and long as it takes to see ALL citizens as equals.
The woman has the right to her opinion. Her right to it ended at our noses. She can disagree all she wants with our relationships and marriages. What she CANNOT do is to take steps to attempt to deny us our equality.
I’ve got work to get back to. When you’re done being an apologist for your orientation, consider other solutions.
Jesse
Gays need to get some perspective.
If prop 8 had failed, would you still be protesting this restaurant? I doubt it. Homosexuals are upset because prop 8 passed and are directing your anger at what is available. It’s funny because it is hurting a lot of gay employees.
And for those who voted yes on 8, it isn’t doing much to convince them otherwise. You guys got to get out of your bubble and realize that attacking religion is only proving what the prop 8 campaign was saying. Good job at hurting yourselves!!!
It’s also amusing if you think the protest is helping the cause and if the protestors feel like a civil rights era worker. Why? Because this is about punishment, punishing a lady for donating to prop 8 and you feel betrated!!! Don’t lie to yourself and say it is for some grandiose struggle for human rights. Some gay marchers are, but not this one. This is about hurt ego. But keep it up because it slows down gay rights and I don’t support them. You have my sincere thanks.
Falc
Jesse?
1) If it had failed, disclosure of contributions wouldn’t have come to our attention, so you’re right. But if it HAD been known, yes, then the same boycotting of this restaurant would exist.
It’s about equal rights, regardless… but it’s all the worse when you’re betrayed by one you’ve supported who claims to support you, and then stabs you in the back. If you can’t grasp why that’s offensive to us, go back to your concept of God and ask Him/Her what happened to your heart and conscience. In fact, since you don’t support “them” (our civil rights) go ahead and ask the Wizard for a Heart and a Brain while you’re at it.
What minority do you fall under, Jesse? Psst! Here’s a clue for ya: Whatever minority it is, chances are good that we homos have stood behind your struggles for equality. Maybe that’s why you don’t get why we’d be offended by being stabbed in the back. Perhaps that’s because you’d do the same thing yourself.
You’ve already said you’re against our equality, so get lost. We’ll keep on fighting against those who oppose us. Hey, where is it that you work? Where do you live? Maybe we should come affect you where you work and live, the way that the anti-gay sentiment and laws affect US where we work and live. Maybe then you’d get it.
Have a good time with the Wizard. Heart, brains and… no email? Ask him for some courage too!
Ben
@Falc: Can you tell me where I said we should be ‘waiting’? Ten or twenty years you say? Excuse me? Where did I say anything like that?
Quote: “The point is that long term victory requires strategy and incremental progress. Civil unions will pave the way for marriage, and if everybody is smart and chills the hell out, that future could be realized relatively soon. On the other hand, all the vitriol right now (and the El Coyote fiasco is a good example) is only setting this movement back, possibly by years.”
As should be plainly obvious, I am talking about making this happen as fast as possible. And the fastest route is not the one we’re on. It’s all well and good to jump up and down and be angry and talk about ‘taking’ your rights back. I agree with the sentiment. But if the methodology is counterproductive, then that’s fucking that. If you want results then start acting like it.
Accusing me of being an appologist is cynical, lazy and laughable.
fredo777
@Jesse:
I could write a long, eloquent rebuttal to that nonsense.
I won’t. Fuck off.
JT
Ben,
Wait, you said. Wait how long? You speak of civil unions as a step in the right direction. Wrong. Check out Prop 2, which passed with flying colors in Florida. There goes THAT idea, huh?
Accepting a lesser equality doesn’t work. Clinton’s “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” is proof of that.
*IF* we were to beg for and obtain Civil Unions from the Master’s table, the entire subject would be put away. “What are you faggots whining about NOW, you’ve already GOT Civil Unions!” “They have civil unions, but that’s not good enough for them. They want to disrupt our society, our families, ruin life as we know it.”
That’s what you’ll get if you ask for true equality after accepting the 50% version offered by Civil Unions. The difference in rights and benefits granted is vast, enormous. This isn’t just about a word. It’s about true equality.
I’ll accept civil unions on the day that ALL unions are Civil Unions in the eyes of the law. Otherwise, it’s simply too easy to discriminate against us anyway. “Oh, we recognize civil unions, but we only give the insurance discount, only rent apartments, only FILL IN THE BLANK to *married* couples.”
This isn’t my first time on the Rights merry-go-round. I’ve seen it before. The reason I said 10-20 years is that’s about how long it takes for another generation to come up, and for this issue to be revisited, once we accept Civil Unions. If we raise it before that, we’ll be shut down in a heartbeat as uncooperative rabble-rousers… far more so than we have been already, just for seeking equality.
And yes, you are an apologist for your orientation, if you’d accept something less than true equality. You pay taxes the same as everyone else. You ARE the same as every other citizen, so why else would you accept anything less than true equality from our government?
I can recall when I was younger, being accused of being homophobic for that I find effeminate men are part of the problem. While I was right, I was missing the point, which is that it is not for the government (or society) to approve or disapprove, agree or disagree. It is not for anyone to divvy out Civil Rights as they choose, based on ANY criteria. That’s what makes them inalienable. They’re an entitlement of EVERYone. I was mistaken then, and you’re mistaken now. Civil Unions aren’t a step in the right direction. They’re a pacifier.
Be bold, speak truth, show courage, and hold out for true equality. It’s long past time that we stood up with our heads high and accepted no less than every other citizen of this nation.
When you lose focus, I’d suggest the lyrics of Melissa Etheridge’s Tuesday Morning.
I wish us all the best, and peace.
JT
MarjorieFan
What is this a witch hunt?We’re not in Salem anymore, Dorothys.
Give some respect to Marjorie for standing up for her long-time beliefs. She doesn’t hate gays neither does her chuch. It’s evident from her words and her actions. She just doesn’t think it’s necessary to redefine “marriage.” Call it something else. New union- New term. (Atleast Marjorie didn’t throw her long-time church under the bus- like our new and improved President Elect Obama did and promised he would Not!) We Love You Marjorie!!
JT
@MarjorieFan:
No need to HUNT for the witch. She’s standing right there in front of us.
No “new union. Love isn’t a new concept, nor is partnering/marriage.
SCREW her “long-time” beliefs. She has lived amongst us, made a BUNCH of money off of us, and throws US under the bus, we who have fed and clothed her, paid her mortgage and car payments for decades. If she’d been as honest about her contempt for us all along as she was when she donated to those homophobes, we’d have stopped going there years ago. She’s only crying now because she got caught.
As to the “We Love You Margorie!!” stupidity, represent yourself, but “We” don’t love her. We were betrayed by her. We’re good enough to sit at her paying table, but not good enough to have equality? If you want to buy into that, that is YOUR neurosis, but “we” don’t let people kick us around and stab us in the back like that.
This subject is tired. The bitch deserves to lose our patronage. If she can’t believe in our full equality, (and so much so that she goes out of her way to fund those who would take that equality from us,) then I can’t believe in her restaurant. Simple and straightforward. The bitch made her choices and her bed. Now she can lie in it.
Wendy
I’m glad that El Coyote felt the financial pinch, and I’m glad she’s stepping down. I dined there for years, literally since I was a small child, but we have not returned since this news. Marjorie is not just your average hatemonger; she actually financed the hate. The nerve of her, after all the financial support she received from the GLBT community. I am sickened that all those years I paid a penny toward her “lifestyle” – which is evident is a disgusting lifestyle. If El Coyote wants to see some of that business come back, they’ll make some nice, generous donations to causes working to legalize gay marriage everywhere. It’s not that I loved their horribly Americanized faux Mexican food, but the place had so much old school charm that my family enjoyed going. No mas, kiddies, no mas.
Signed,
A Well Educated Successful Straight, Married Woman Who Stands In Solidarity Against You Knuckle Dragging Fundies
Morgan
@Ray: We’ll let her live hers when she lets us live ours 🙂