Oh god, do we find ourselves agreeing with former IRAA chief Hilary Rosen? On AC360 last night, the lesbian lass made the case against Barack Obama welcoming noted homophobe Pastor Rick Warren on Inauguration Day — making similar points to the ones we made earlier. And it goes like this: Argue all you want about Obama inviting Warren as a showing of the incoming president’s “diversity” and “embracing everyone across the aisle,” but there are some things you just don’t do, and that’s invite the spewers of hate speech to an event that’s supposed to usher in change in America. Rick Warren is not change. Rick Warren is a bigot, and it’s shameful that Obama would even consider allowing him to stand beside him, let alone extend an invitation.
As Robert Zimmerman notes, Warren uses “faith to preach fear.” That is not the America we decided on when we elected Obama. That is not the America we forecast Obama taking part in.
And as for pundit Roland Martin‘s argument about Warren somehow showcasing diversity in America? That we must somehow honor and respect those who want to keep civil rights out of the hands of every human being? It’s a farce, and Martin should know better. Some Americans still think blacks should be slaves, Hispanics are lazy scum, and Jews are greedy backstabbers.
Should we welcome them on Inauguration Day to usher in “change”?
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
rickroberts
Somebody needs to tell Anderson that Presidents do not rule. Kings and queens rule. Presidents do not.
paul
You know, you are the company you keep. Warren is a bigot and a hater who stands for nothing except for fear and homo attacks.
Obama elevating this hater to be center stage at one of the most cherished of American days that sets the tone for the next administration is an absolute outrage. What is he THINKING???
For example, how would black Americans feel if a preacher who shared all the viewpoints of the grand wizard of the KKK, was invited to give the invocation at the inaguration?
Exactly. They would call the president elect who invited such a person a racist, a hater and a bigot.
Obama has made a very cruel, hateful and bigoted statement against ALL GLBTQ folks here as well as to those who cherish the civil rights of all.
Fasten your seatbelts folks, as it is going to be a very bumpy 4 year night.
Michael
i really had a lot of hope for obama but this is disappointing on so many levels. when someone equates being gay with the things warren has it’s bringing in hate not bringing people together.
as a young black gay guy i feel that some people (like older people in my family) don’t think that gay rights are civil rights. it’s not on the same scale as the 1960s civil rights movement, but that doesn’t mean it’s any less important.
this is just more of the same and it sucks!
sparkle obama
thinking out loud:
obama may have made a deal w/warren to give the invocation way back during the debates.
i can’t lash out at obama for every single thing, but i understand
the pain of those offended by his including warrenin the inauguration.
however, obama needs to get those mainstream christians!
that’s why we voted for him, because he can get them.
remember, he’s organizing a team of rivals.
obama is post-modern, like isaac mizrahi for target.
rick warren is obama’s billy graham motif.
it’s only a motif!
i know this feels like a big compromise, but you have to be realistic, mary.
in the abscence of p.e. obama actually putting on some cutoffs & doc martens & a silence = death t-shirt…
We all need to step up and make Change Happen too – and in positive, constructive ways.
anyway marys – chill and be fairy.
we are going to do Us & still rise.
Andres
There are two pastors that day, one that supports gay rights, one that doesn’t. This is a smart move by Obama, who promised to reach across the aisle. Yeah, Pastor Warren said some things that obviously hurt the gay community, but we have to understand that his view is similar to the view of many religions in the US. We have to reach out to that group of people we disagree with and let them know we’re willing to work with them on some things. Thats the only way any progress will be made.
I understand the point made by the lady person that this day shouldn’t include talks from people who take up these views that we feel are wrong on a moral level. But this is the perfect time to do it. Lets include everyone in the celebration of an intelligent President, and prove the point that he will govern (not rule) for the entire US. If we begin to exclude people based on their views, we’re not doing ourselves any favors in treating those people the way we feel they’ve treated the gay community throughout our history.
michael
If Obama was really about Diversity he would have selected a Rabbi, or maybe a Muslim clergymen as one of the speakers. Lets not whitewash here and say that this is about inclusiveness or diversity. Why not bring in Fred Phelps? There are plenty of Americans who think like him, where is their representation? Oh, excuse me we have Rick to cover that one. Maybe a minister who holds the same beliefs as Nazi’s or KKK members? Well Rick does cover part of that. There are going to be those gays among us that will make excuses for every thing Obama does that slaps us in the face. They will be the same ones who will say at the end of his first term that he did nothing for us because the economy was more important, the war was more important, etc. etc. etc. But I am more important than the fucking economy, or that fucking war and until we all put our selves first we will remain on the back of the bus. Obama is leaving the starting gate kicking us in the teeth, strike one. I would rather see America go down the tubes, that war in Iraq rage on forever than to make my own cause, my own rights as a human being less important than the needs of others. But the United States has chosen a negative path and this just furthers it. And negativity breeds more of the same, so the U.S. will reap what it sows by its own hand and Obama is just a new mask that America gets to wear to hide what its really made of. The same ole bullshit, just a different color.
FuelMix
Let me see if I understand you queers. You have a problem in letting an alleged “bigot” speak because YOU don’t like his views???
He has an absolute right to speak. It never fails to amaze me how queers respond like greased lightning when the reptilian portion of their brain kick into reactive mode just because they feel they’ve been slighted – or betrayed – and every other gay dude should agree with them.
The change that Obama promised may be the change queers need: The unflinching courage to hear an entirely different point of view delivered centre stage.
John K.
FuelMix:
Are you fucking kidding me?
Pragmatist
I don’t know when GLBT folks will get it out of their thick skulls (mine included!) that Barack Obama has *never* seriously prioritized GLBT rights.
What he has done, and quite successfully, is to win our votes — and those of most young voters — by marketing himself as the new, hip, fresh face of change. But that’s just hype. Look at the substance: Obama has never shown himself willing to take a strong stand on behalf of leftish causes, even when his friends and supporters begged him to do so. (As a matter of fact, his “split the baby” style of leadership apparently dates back as far as his tenure as editor of the Harvard Law Review.) I think anyone who expects him to push for sweeping changes on important social issues will be sorely disappointed.
At the end of the day, remember, he’s just another politician. I have no doubt he’ll perform better than the clown who precedes him. But he’ll be no miracle worker, either. For God’s sakes, he didn’t even have the sense (or ability?) to keep the Clinton machine out of his administration. The fact that he’s saddled himself with all that baggage gives even less hope that he’ll ever achieve any meaningful reform.
Andres
Don’t be so cynical and pessimistic. Obama always mentioned gay people when talking about equality and in his major speeches about all sides of the nation.
All this crap I keep hearing about him not caring about GLBT rights is so idiotic.
I care about equality just as much as most of you I’m sure, but I’m also not ignorant enough to believe that this is the most important issue facing our country right now. This is an issue that will take some time to make right, and Obama’s election is a promising step in the right direction.
Qjersey
There are plenty of other preacher who are not for gay marriage that have not sunk to the low disgusting “gay marriage is like incest and pedophilia” comparisons that Rick Warren has made.
Ben
Queerty, can you post about who was appointed for the benediction, please? Hufftington Post has:
“Indeed, lost in the hubbub about Warren, is the fact that the man tasked with overseeing the benediction is a icon within progressive politics. Rev. Joe Lowery, a hero of the civil rights movement and co-founder of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference with Martin Luther King famously called out President George W. Bush during Coretta Scott King’s funeral. He also is a supporter of same-sex marriage. But he is not garnering the same attention as Warren for his inauguration role.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/17/rick-warren-obama-invocat_n_151877.html
bobito
Reverend Lowery giving the benediction is definitely a plus, especially since it gives him the last word. Nonetheless, I have to agree with Hilary Rosen’s point of view. There are levels of hate-mongering that are not to be condoned in any way, and Rick Warren surpassed that level a long time ago. I detest the fact that the Obama administration finds it necessary (or politically savvy) to pander to the religious right.
But it is also worth bearing in mind that the speakers and performers at the inauguration were chosen by a committee headed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein. Obama was a member of that committee, and I would hope that, as President-elect, he would have veto power over any choice of the committee, but I don’t know if that is the case – and even if it is, he didn’t use it. But obviously there were other people, not only Obama, who think it’s a good idea to have Rick Warren give the invocation at this inauguration.
But it really sucks.
Mark in Indiana
Really, how many times does B Obama have to knife you people before you start bleeding?
I’m really going to enjoy some serious schadenfreude in the next 4 years. At least I have that to look forward to…
Angus
Politicians are liars. Remember Obama opposes gay marriage on RELIGIOUS grounds.
Paul
@FuelMix: Oh, Mr. FuelMix. You are unfortunately a product of moral relativism. That’s the belief most uneducated people have that there is no “right” answer, only different (and equally valid) viewpoints. Yes, you see, Hitler wasn’t “wrong,” he was just… different. Ah, no.
Warren is a bigot. Fact. Look up the definition of the word. There are wonderful online dictionaries.
Equal rights are what the Constitution demands. Fact. Take a few law classes. There are wonderful law schools in this nation.
Warren is wrong. Period. That’s not being reactive like “greased lighting”; that’s called being intelligent… and right.
Now kindly remove your head from your ass and realize there are some truths in this world and stop pretending everyone’s viewpoint is worth something. When your name is Rick Warren, it’s not.
Cesar
I’m so glad he picked Rick. He is so dead on with helping people with AIDS, the poor, and many other charities. Last I checked more gays have AIDS % wise thus making Rick a hypocrite, right? Helping those with AIDS really shows his hatred towards humans. And his work with the poor really shows his divisiveness. All of the HATERS, please get a life!
Angus
Regarding an appropriate way of demonstrating our anger on Obamas decision, my friend Fernando says let’s all send Obama an old paor of shoes!
Herbert Wassinger
I love the shoe idea!!!!
We should all send them for delivery on January 20!!!!
Robert, NYC
Lets face it, the majority in the democratic party are a bunch of closeted moderate republicans. If the party were true to its left-wing roots, there would be no need to kowtow to the right wing religious nutjobs. I know of no other western country that allows religion to play a direct part in politics, let alone influence the outcome of equality legislation. If we truly have separation of church and state, why is it necessary for any politician to declare his or her religious beliefs in the first place? What’s that all about and while we’re at it, why chant “god bless America” at the end of every major public speech? And why is their a prayer before the beginning of a congressional session? Doesn’t sound like separation of church and state to me, in fact there can’t be since Christmas Day is a federal holiday, recognizing christianity over all others.
Kurt
I think it was a very good move for the President Elect to invite Rick Warren. I’m not only okay with it, I affirmatively support it.
It is about inclusion and reaching out.
There is no comparisson between Rick Warren and the KKK or the Nazi Party and people who say so are more dangerous to our democracy than he is.
Herbert Wassinger
Please All:
Do not just post here (and preach to our own choir). Send an email to the Obama folks. It’s simple. Go to their website:
change.gov. We should leave emails at the “inauguration” site there, and at all other appropriate areas as well. Make your voices heard.
marty Brown
Great — then with that logic in mind — let’s have the KKK represented. Or, maybe a skin head leader. Those are certainly opposing views that could be included in this coalition approach that you are suggesting.
Look, I think that the point is that this Warren fellow spreads hate and fear — like the parties I mention above — and the Inauguration is not a place for such.
Geoffrey
No.22.Herbert Wassinger
Thank you for the info! Exactly what I was going to ask for as I was scrolling down reading.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Robert, NYC:
True but you’re country was built on people fleeing religous persecution from the West…
rickroberts
@Kurt: What sort of homosexual are you? You must really hate yourself. It is EXACTLY like the KKK or skinheads, perhaps even more dangerous because is manages to appear palatable. At least you can look at a skinhead and KNOW that you’re repulsed.
Jaroslaw
I haven’t seen the Rick Warren comments for myself, but if he comparied being Gay to Incest and other things, they should have just played the clip. Or how about at least quote Rick Warren exactly instead of dancing around the issue for SIX minutes….
Rosen didn’t cut it for me with her arguments (and I’m on her side!) – although I agree with Q Jersey who said there are plenty of preachers who aren’t pro Gay marriage who didn’t say vitriolic things against us who could have been asked.
benwa
I told all my friend as they were trying to convince me to vote Obama that when he follows thru with his promises then they can start to tell me how wrong I am. (and no I did not vote for McCain either) Well he’s not even in office and has broke many, what people feel were, promises. So, just wait and see what he does when he is truly in the whitehouse, if it keeps on going like this I’ll be the one getting to say I told you so!
frank
A couple of points that don’t seem to be making the rounds:
– one good deed deserves another: Warren caught a lot of flak, in ‘06, for inviting a pro-choice politician named Barack Obama, to speak at his church during an AIDS conference. Warren caught more flak, when he invited another pro-choice called hillary clinton to speak at his church the next year.
– Although he supported prop 8, Warren’s also said he supports civil unions, beleives gays should have all the same rights, just so long as it isn’t called “marriageâ€. FYI, that’s Obama’s position, as well.
– Warren has supported “comprehensive†AIDS education, without the usua caveat about abstinence-only.
– Warren also said we need to engage with Syria. You can imagine the flak he took from the right, on that? Some fundies called him the antichrist!
My point being, he’s no conservative fundamentalist, not by a long shot.
Jaroslaw
Well, Frank, if he thinks civil unions are ok, helps AIDS victims etc. then I don’t understand why he would say legitimizing homosexuality is like saying ok to pedophilia, polygamy or incest.
He’s slick though, he doesn’t use those words. He says “an older guy marrying a child, brothers & sisters marrying and a guy with multiple wives. That sounds so much less judgemental and negative than the former.
I will give you that he sounds very reasonable compared to others but he is just as dishonest when he keeps repeating that same old shit that marriage has always been about a man and woman for 5000 years. Maybe the official marriage, but that ignores whores, outside sex with boys, girls, slaves, concubines….all of which were acceptable to most cultures. Not to mention a lot of cultures had same sex puberty initiation rites.
But my main problem, if I must pick one, is that ALL of these types of Evangelicals, whether they do good things or not, come down as expressions of superiority. They are helping sinners, hopefully, come to their version of the truth. That is mainly what they live for, to redeem currently unrepentant sinners….So while it is nice they help AIDS people, there is another agenda. And don’t think that once the Evangelical agenda gets in place, the moderates are going to rule. They might and they might not.
The truly thorny part for me, though, is that despite what Rosen said about “bringing the country together” Evangelicals ARE a large percentage of America. So they must have a place at the table, whether the rest of us like it or not.
Jaroslaw
What I meant to say in my second to last paragraph, and I admit, I’m stealing from Robert Boston of American United for Separation of Church and State: in their corporal works of mercy, the Evangelicals, Pentecostals and others view the sinner as nothing more than that – a ‘body’ to be redeemed, saved, brought into the “light of truth.”
While theologically, this view may make sense, the person being “helped” in one of their various ministries may be made to feel worthless if he or she doesn’t “convert” to their way of thinking.
I have lots of these kinds of people in my family, so what I meant was I was “stealing” the words, not the concepts – I’ve seen those in action enough with my own two eyes.
dgz
Roland Martin is such a douche. Why would a reputable network like CNN pay him? He was a complete idiot throughout all of election season, and -surprise- continues to be.
But anywho, i’m not mad that B.O. (so-named because he stinks) is using a pastor who disagrees with marriage. But someone who disagrees and uses the kind of language he does just shows that the Hillary people were right.
brad.johnson
Obama has shown us that we don’t count and we are just a place to get votes and money. democrats suck. join the green party for real change. hrc endorsed and gave money to obama who opposes marriage equality and did mail for the yes on 8 campaign in california and hrc did more for the big 0 then they did to stop anti gay ballot measures in 4 states this year and 30 in the past two. and log cabin and stonewall just want jobs. the green party is the only true lgbt party. join the green party and stop rick warren
mark
Had Rick Warren actively worked to remove ANY other minority’s Constitutionl Rights from being covered by the equal protection clause.
We wouldn’t be having this conversation.
There also wouldn’t be ANYONE telling that minority to just get over the insult.
greybat
@FuelMix: I think we would have preferred someone with the spiritual grace to transcend the particulars of faith, and add to the sacredness of the occaision.
Maybe a nice Pagan Priestess or something…
Hawyer
With this boneheaded move, Barack Obama has just qualified himself as another Clarence Thomas Negro – shilling for the same white man’s religion that enslaved his ancestors.
hyhybt
@Mark in Indiana: We won’t know until he *starts*.
@Robert, NYC: Christmas, as it is celebrated here and now, is at *least* as much a secular holiday as it is a religious one. I tend to think of it as two holidays that share a date and some of the decorations.
@benwa: “What people feel were, promises” are not the same thing as actual promises.
@Jaroslaw: , 4th paragraph: “ALL”? I know at least a few who do things like feeding the hungry and caring for the sick (including disease prevention) because their faith leads them to believe it’s the right thing to do and important enough to bother with. Any converting done along the way (if any) is solely by example. And I know few enough people that if I know any like that there must be more. Of course, the kind you’re thinking of *are* of course far more visible, and probably far more numerous as well…
Mark in Indiana
well HY, I understand what you’re saying but
Donnie McClurkin
“God’s in the Mix”
Rick Warren
I don’t support gay marriage
Robert Gates as holdover defense secretary–OMFG
Wolf Salazar guarding the lamb’s pastures at Interior
Don’t get me going on that Labor Secretary skag
promises of more bailouts to come with no detail on oversight
(and hey, aside from leaving off gay representation in his inner circle–where the hell are all the progressives who were on every website calling us all racists if we didn’t support him? Oh, “too” left for the bridge builder?)
See, to me, that’s starting like a dodo trying to flying. Thud.
I was just hoping to not be mad for awhile. Dammit. The television is going off again.
Jaroslaw
HYBYT – re-read what I said, please – about “all”. (I wasn’t referring to ALL Christians, I was referring to the Evangelical/Pentecostal take on religion) I don’t say that no Christians help because they love humanity – some do. Some hope for conversions by example but that is a minority I’m sure.
But reading from their own play book – THEIR religion is the only right one (Jesus himself said “no one comes to the Father except by me”) by doing works of mercy they are living their faith. This is not a bad thing and often can be a good thing.
Contrast this with the Catholic view “they are the first and true Church but accept “rays of truth” which emanate from all religions which profess Jesus as the one Son of God etc.” Most fundies don’t return the respect!
My main point when I used the word ALL is how they come across. Watch any fundy TV program, read their literature. The penitent is NOTHING, absolutely WORTHLESS unless they are saved, accept Jesus as their Savior and are washed in His Blood etc. THEY say this, not me. THAT is what I object to. And of course each Fundy sect says all the OTHERs are wrong too. 🙂 Hope I clarified that for you.
hyhybt
@Jaroslaw: Well, I did see that you said “evangelicals”, but misunderstood how you were using it. Sorry. And of course neither “evangelical” nor “fundamentalist” mean what they ought to anymore anyway.
Peter
@sparkle obama: Please stop calling us “mary”. No one gave you permission to do so and its presumptous.
Peter
@Andres: LOL. ur funny. I bet thats what the Jews thought before the Nazi’s led them off to the camps.
sparkle obama
@Peter:
>>Please stop calling us “mary”. No one gave you permission to do so and its presumptous.<<
kiss my well-shaped, yellow ass!
some of you fags are too simple!
We are going to do Us and still rise.
sparkle obama
@sparkle obama:
ps
that’s only an expression.
you are of course free to kiss or not any ass you please!
what phonies some of you are though, with your single-issue myopia.
you kids are acting like anti-gay prejudice sprang up overnight and you’re shocked!
shocked!
what bullshit!
warren helped obama reah out to conservative christians with his pre-election interview.
he invited obama and sen. clinton to speak at saddleback.
please stop pretending you can’t see that obama is attempting to demonstrate that he will listen to all americans, “progressive” and “regressive” alike.
by showing up to endorse obama, warren is explicitly “reaching across the aisle” and obama is bringing mainstream christianity closer to the middle by modeling his own brand of reasoned faith.
some of we gays are too self-centered and unrealistic.
the racial subtext of this and related issues is positively sick-making.
queerty’s approach to these issues, using language like “pandering” and “treasonous” is suspect and intemperate.
some of you all need to look in the mirror and try to summon up a little class.
crabs in a barrel need to sit down.
Wayne
“kiss my well-shaped, yellow ass!
some of you fags are too simple!” – Sparkle Obama
lol, for such an old bitty Sparkle Obama sure is proud of her ass! But as I recall aren’t you nearly 70 years old now Sparkle Obama/peejo? Stop the lies. That ass may be yellow but it sure as hell ain’t well shaped. HA HA!
Happy Holidays!
Peter
sparkle, sparkle, sparkle. Obama’s “own brand of reasoned faith” has brought him (obama) to declaring that separate but equal between the gay and straight world is acceptable. Stop it with the reaching across the aisle, bringing people together nonesense. They (social conservatives and now Obama)just want to throw us under the rug and be done with it. And, by the way, someone who just asked me to “kiss his ass” really shouldnt be asking others to begin to have a little class. lol.
Peter
@greybat: Yeah, I agree. That would have served a real “mind expanding” purpose. Would have pulled people right out of their small boxes and got them thinking about the universally divine commonalities.
Peter
@Cesar: One of the problems with this debate regarding Rick Warren is that it is tending to be “all or nothing” for which ever side one is on. This comment is an example: Rick Warren is good on AIDS Crisis, the poor et al, so we should de facto accept him as the FIRST PERSON TO SPEAK AT THE INAUGURATION! Well, I can be grateul that Mr. Warren holds my views on some issues but still decide that some other views he has about my FELLOW GAY AMERICANS AND THEIR BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS disqualifies him from being THE FIRST VOICE WE HEAR AT THE INAUGURATION. If I were Obama I would have honored Mr. Warren’s work on the issues that they share by inviting him in February 09 to a roundtable policy conclave at the White House, or something like that. I would not have made the swipe at the GLBT community by allowing Warren to be THE CLARION CALL AT THE MOST IMPORTANT INAUGURATION IN HISTORY. Call me crazy if you will.
sparkle obama
@Peter:
you are right about my inconsistent approach to our debate –
i’m sorry to get so mad, but you guys are making me lose my religion.
you need to be real now.
you know obama is being consistent, pragmatic and strategic.
you all love yourselves some hillary when she compromises and “panders”, but
you hold obama to a ridiculous standard.
you would rather see him kiss the asses of single-issue gays, blow his capital w/conservatives and get voted out in 2012!
you are completely unrealistic and, i think, disingenuous.
your fear of a Black planet is palpable and it makes me ashamed as a “gay”.
i apologize for flying off the handle, though.
people need to take a cue from obama re; “class” – myself included.
you can’t fight hate with hate, and i’m sorry for getting so muddy myself.
someone needs to beat some rhetorical jesus into entitled, selfish, wicked, blinded “white” asses though – that’s a fact!
kidding!
not!
sparkle obama
@mark:
(!)
you all act so surprised to hear that our society has shunned gays since ancient times.
we are an unique minority.
we enjoy so much freedom and cultural power, but we still hit the glass ceiling re: seperate but equal status.
if you really want to establish “marriage” as we know it to include gays, realize that those millions of americans who would proscribe Our civil rights
can only be convinced by an overtly christian leader who is sincere and consistent and “respectful” of tradition.
what you are asking for is really the moon, at this time.
these are the facts, jack.
are we going to the moon as our first point of order or are we going to be pragmatic and maybe go thru the back door to get real, lasting results.
there is a difference between being proud and being “prideful”.
we are not really *that* far along from our previous civil rights struggles.
nina simone too raged against being told to “go slow”.
i know it’s painful to be patient and to make such a big leap of faith w/obama, but this is a time to rise above our fears and be brave enuf to be better than our “enemies”.
let warren speak and represent conservative christians.
you can’t expect obama to censor mainstream ideas even as he fights for Our minority right of expression and pursuit of happiness.
obama is walking softly, trying to make change from within the system.
please, angry gays – stop acting so ghetto and give him a chance to be a president for *all of us*.
Robert, NYC
@sparkle obama:
Sparkle…..had Obama selected an anti-semitic right wing evangelical cultist such as Fred Phelps or a former KKK member to officiate, do you think Jews and African Americans would or should ignore such a selection if you support the notion that Obama is reaching out to include those he may not disagree with? There is a limit to which one can go by keeping one’s enemies close. Obama has crossed the line selecting a bigot who compares our natural orientation to pedophilia and incest and bearing false witness against us when he states that allowing gay people to marry would be tantamount to sanctioning marriage between siblings both same sex and opposite sex, older men and underage children and polygamy. He blatantly lied when he used the socalled 5,000 years of marriage history mantra in which he declared that all major religions have always intended marriage to be between one man and one woman. That was a bold-faced lie. Islam still permits polygamy and until the tail end of the 19th century so did Mormonism. The bible also permits it. How can you defend all of that and act as an apologist for Obama’s bad judgment call? Warren is a bigot and a hypocrite of the first order as well as a liar and a fraud.
kurt
Can a people “sista soulja” itself?
It looks like our community has. I don’t believe this was a set up by Obama, but the extreme element went and took the bait anyway. The whole couuntry is laughing at the gay community for our intolerance and attempts at exclusion.
Misguided as he is, Rick Warren’s sin was being on the wrong side of a piece of legislation (Prop 8). If you want to compare him with others who were on the wrong side of a piece of legislation (The Civil Rights Act, the ERA, the NLRA) go ahead. That is not the same as an organization dedicated to violence (KKK) or the overthrow of a democraticly elected government (Nazis).
Well, Obama is getting points for standing up to the looney left. There is a bright side to this.
Peter
@sparkle obama: sparkle, now that some reality is being injected into the debate I still need to correct a couple of misperseptions you seem to have: that I, hold Obama to a higher standard than I did Hillary (or I guess Bill) News flash: I gave the Clintons Hell for DOMA, still do and thats the main reason I voted for OBAMA. Got it? I thought Obama was a better person and less poltical than the Clintons, but apparently its not true. So, sigh, disappointment ensues.
To your second point: I would love Obama to have a dialogue with evangelicals, love it! Invite all of their leaders to a round table at the White House in February to discuss “common ground”. You wouldnt have heard a peep outta me. But this invitation to the Inaugaration is NOT THE SAME THING. And, honestly, your inability to see or understand that nuance is due most likely to your very apparent, over the top, defensiveness of Obama. Let it go: He is a grown man and can take care of himself.
Mark In Indiana
Yes, Sparkle, I’m going to the moon because ultimately waiting is not where it’s at for me. If you want to sit patiently, that’s fine. I see no problem with it. I find it humiliating to wait for what’s clearly a problem linked to my equal citizenship…so, either no one is allowed marriage or everyone is. That’s how I see it…I have no misconceptions, but neither will I be petted by a fierce advocate…that phrase has meaning out of proportion to the person who claimed it.
As so many fundies like to rely upon Founding Father formulations about how this country should run, then I can only suggest the Constitution as informative reading. I suggest it to our new lawyer in chief, too. While he would clearly be pleased by its mention of religious and expressive freedom, he would also note that it offers equal protection and full-faith-and-credit clauses which should trump ANY state DOMA or Proposition.
The fact that they don’t is why this country went astray in pandering to the majority’s need to rule absolutely–but the FFs clearly concerned themselves more with protecting from the tyranny of the majority than in securing the majority’s right to absolute rule.
It’s always been beside the point that a majority of Americans either oppose or favor gay marriage. It doesn’t matter. That, though, is not a view I trust Obama to understand or uphold, and that’s not predicated on this rotten Warren choice–that’s simply the latest in a series of news flashes that I think you haven’t read from his campaign…
And one more thing: You won, Obama. You can stop campaigning and triangulating for at least 1 year and actually govern as of January. Have Rick over for a PJ party later and quietly.
Angel
Why do people listen to Rick Warren?
No one has ever blogged that “he blew me in a toilet once”.
Anderson, people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Maybe we’re just disgusted with “the lifestyle”.
corey
I think Warren needs to learn how to balance a little self control with this sweet tooth.
If he expects gays who have a desire to sleep with the same sex, to not fulfill that desire, maybe he needs to take his own suggestions and skip the second pop-tart.
It sickens me so that fundamentalist Christians are ALWAYS the biggest hypocrits, whether it is their sex acts, money dealing, marriages, friends etc.
I hear fat-head Doctor Phil has a diet pill to.
I wonder if they work as good as Pat Robinsons magic pancake mix?!
Aubrey
@Angel: “Why do people listen to Rick Warren?
No one has ever blogged that “he blew me in a toilet once”.”
He blew me in a toilet once.
Philly, Airport, 2002, Nervous, Experienced, Gay, Details, Details, Blah, Blah, Blah. There. Now will you stop listening to him as that was only reason you gave for doing so, or stop believing everything you read on the internet? There is no “lifestyle”.
@frank: Late, I know! Just if you happen to read this, do you perchance have links to wherever you got that info from?