Barack Obama will make his first visit to Africa since becoming president when he and Michelle stop by Ghana in July to work on “strengthening the fraternal relations” with President John Evans Atta Mills. With Kenyan blood (and that whole “being black” thing), it’s understood Obama enjoys enormous popularity in the region. Not enjoying such high marks? Gays.
Not that we’re expecting the president to spend even a minute discussing it on his two-day trip.
Except gays in Ghana would love him to. That’s because Ghana’s criminal code makes it a crime to participate in “unnatural carnal knowledge”; sex between men is illegal. And that’s just the law. Then there’s the silencing.
In 2006, a LGBT rights conference slated to take place in the capital Accra was banned by officials; at the time Information Minister Kwamena Bartels pointed to the illegality of homosexuality as an excuse. Prohibiting the conference was, if local media reports were to be believed, just fine by the public.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
There’s the arrest of a British photographer when airport officials found in his luggage photographs of him having sex. Gay students are reportedly removed from schools.
No surprise: International human rights groups calling for Ghana to improve protections for GLBTs.
But as Obama has made clear, he doesn’t even care about that in his own country, so he’s got no footing making any gay rights demands overseas. Not that he would even attempt it.
Alec
Wow. Did you think anyone was going to do that? Even the Netherlands hasn’t made it a point to criticize treatment of GLBT people in Africa, the Middle East and East and Southeast Asia (although it has been discussed).
BTW, when you say that Obama “doesn’t even care” about improving protections for GLBTs “in his own country,” what do you call his support for hate crimes legislation and ENDA? However critical you are of Obama for his stances on marriage and DADT, you should at least acknowledge that he is probably going to be the first president to sign historic gay rights legislation.
Gregoire
I’m through with this site. There’s reasonable criticism, and then there’s this.
Chitown Kev
This is an incredibly nit-picking and bitchy post.
I mean, if you’re gonna nit-pick, at least serve a plate of spaghetti (with homemade spaghetti sauce) or a plate of mustard and turnip greens. Sheeesh.
CitizenGeek
You know that you’re racist now, Queerty. Pointing out homophobia among black people automatically makes you a racist. I mean, what other possible reason would you (an advocate of gay rights, tolerance and acceptance) have to criticise African countries except that you’re so obviously a goshdarned racist!
/sarcasm
Seriously, can we act like grown-ups here and accept the FACT that African countries are obscenely homophobic, in general, and that acknowledging this fact does actually mean one hates black people?
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
I don’t think anyone is bring that up but you.
Chitown Kev
@Chitown Kev:
“bringing that up,” I mean.
Alec
CitizenGeek:
Did anyone claim racism? Apart from your sarcasm, no one was.
No one denies that. Most Middle Eastern countries are also obscenely homophobic; indeed, far worse than African countries. But you have to really twist this post to suggest it is targeting homophobia in Africa; in fact, the entire post is an irrational anti-Obama screed.
This is the kind of “reasoning” and “logic” one would expect from the folks over at Gay Patriot.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
Plenty of Eastern European countries are obscenely homophobic as well, of course.
CitizenGeek
Well, in that case, the point is ultimately a fair one; Obama is ignoring gays, he’s pretending we don’t exist after taking our money and our support throughout his entire election campaign.
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: Yes, I know they are. And I know many Asian and all Middle Eastern (with the exception of Israel) countries are obscenely homophobic too. This doesn’t make African homophobia any less of a problem though and it doesn’t exclude Africa from criticism. I’m really getting sick and tired and people exclaiming “racist” everytime Queerty points out that really rather a lot of black people are homophobic and that this is unacceptable.
Dabq
With Kenyan blood (and that whole “being black” thing),
What does that mean? its not as if this site or any of the posters honestly care about the horrible treatment of black Africans, most don’t care about how black gay Americans are treated.
I think that everyone who reads this blog gets it, the owners, editors and majoority of its readers don’t like Obama, but, this is really low.
Alec
CitizenGeek: His record on DADT is bad and, of course, he was never good on marriage equality. That being said, he released a statement in support of the hate crimes bill, he’s appointed a bunch of openly gay people, he’ll be the first president to sign pro-gay legislation, etc.
This post is just laughable. It isn’t even trying to be serious; just looking for something, anything, to attack Obama with. Like I said, it has the quality one has come to expect from the folks over at Gay Patriot. And that isn’t a compliment.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
But still, you are the one talking about homophobia in Africa. That’s not even the issue being discussed. That’s YOUR obsession.
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: The issue is homophobia in Africa. Last time I checked, Ghana was an African country. All of those links in the article seem somehow linked to homophobia too.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
No that’s YOUR issue.
Alec
@CitizenGeek: Yes, Ghana is in Africa, and yes, most countries in Africa are homophobic. That’s still not the point of this article. The point of this article is to criticize President Obama; specifically, for an alleged future failure to condemn African homophobia on his visit. Which frankly, won’t ever happen. The most anyone is likely to get out of a visiting president in the near future is a call to respect human rights generally.
This is a silly, obnoxious post.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
Now if Obama had mentioned something about Russian homophobia at the G20 summit, then your criticism would be valid.
Also, the Obama Administration declined to attend the UN Conference on Racism. Therefore, I suppose (by your logic) that the Obama Administration is unconcerned about racism as well. And, as he did sign a UN declaration calling for the decriminalizing homosexuality, it seems as if Obama is more concerned about homophobia than racism at the level of world affairs.
See how twisted this can get?
Alec
@Chitown Kev: Good point. I guess President Obama’s call for every nation to decriminalize homosexuality is insufficient. He’s secretly doing nothing for gay rights at the international level.
Like I said, this place is beginning to remind me of Gay Patriot.
Sam
TOTES! There’s been all this talk about releasing photos of terror suspects, and no one from the White House has mentioned gay people even ONCE while discussing that issue. Cause Obama’s abandoned us! And how come Obama hasn’t talked about gay people while announcing his bank bailout plans? Talk about a sell out! And he seriously threw us under the bus when he stuck us behind the puppy chow during his press conference on reforming the health care system. He just used us to get elected!!
Trey
@CitizenGeek: “I’m really getting sick and tired and people exclaiming “racist” everytime Queerty points out that really rather a lot of black people are homophobic and that this is unacceptable.”
your privilege and prejudice are showing.
Man, ever since Cord and Japhy left, Queerty has lost any semblance of diversity.
daftpunkydavid
i suspected this article was off to not such a great start when it stated this would be obama’s first african visit. WRONG. he visits egypt next month. he’ll visit ghana in july. being a blog does not mean you can not do a little research…
Mark M
I am probably more disappointed in Obama, the Progressive community, and even the DNC in general more than anyone I know. Even I, however, know that GLBT rights is not the only thing on his docket. I hope that we occupy a bigger piece of his agenda, and that he learns that GLBT rights are a human rights issue. He has bigger fish to fry, right now.
CitizenGeek
@Sam: You’re acting like we’re being unreasonable for expecting our president (a man took all the money, all the media coverage and all the votes that the gay community provides) to mention us even once in his first 4 months. 3 more states have legalised same sex marriage and Obama, as commander-in-chief, is firing people from the military simply because they are gay. And yet his silence is deafening. It’s not good enough!
Trey
@CitizenGeek: “I’m really getting sick and tired and people exclaiming “racist” everytime Queerty points out that really rather a lot of black people are homophobic and that this is unacceptable.”
your privilege and prejudice are showing.
Landon Bryce
Karl Rove : gay people = Queerty : black people
Race baiting to drive up page views makes me sad.
Queerty is one of very few on-the-record queer voices willing to criticize Obama.
Please start reserving this criticism for things he has actually done.
Please stop encouraging race-based warfare in the comments and start encouraging intelligent discussion instead.
afrolito
As if queerty, or the majority of posters on this site, give a flying fuck about the plight of AFRICAN GAYS. Queerty is now firmly established as an anti-Obama site, and this ridiculous post is probably just the beginning of a dozen more by the end of the day.
I hope President Obama and his wife visit the Gorey island slave fortress, where MILLIONS of captured africans were loaded into the bottom of ships, and kidnapped to the americas. I understand it’s an incredibly moving experience for every person of african descent who visits.
CitizenGeek
@Trey: Of course, because a white Irish boy like me just isn’t entitled to call black homophobia what it is? Irish-Americans aren’t disproportionately homophobic, neither even are Catholics (most of whom voted for Obama last time around). German, French, Hispanic, Native American and Jewish Americans are not disproportionately homophobic either. I’m not saying these groupings don’t have their problems, but homophobia is a absolutely a bigger problem within the black community and it’s shocking that no one ever wants to admit that. I’m done pretending the handful of white racist gays (and they’re out there and they are scum) are a bigger problem than homophobic blacks are for both white and black gays, too.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
Do I or don’t I want to play this game…
I’ll play. For a minute.
What’s the difference between “black homophobia” and any other type of homophobia? And just what is the black community?
CitizenGeek
@afrolito: “As if queerty, or the majority of posters on this site, give a flying fuck about the plight of AFRICAN GAYS. ”
What are you talking about? Of course I care about the plight of African gays. It breaks my heart that they are treated so horrifically bad. Same goes for Iraqi gays, etc. Honestly, grow up!
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
In 2004, 89% of white people in Mississippi voted to add an amendmentment to their state Constitution banning gay marriage. That as opposed to 76% of black Mississippians. So who is more homophobic in Mississippi, white people or black people?
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: “What’s the difference between “black homophobia” and any other type of homophobia? And just what is the black community?”
When I say “black homophobia”, I mean “homophobia from black communities”. Of course the homophobia of some Africans is no different to the homophobia of other peoples.
The black community is, er, the collective of black people in the United States. If you want to pretend that there’s no such thing as a black community, go ahead, but please don’t expect anyone to buy it.
wondermann
Who wants to Bet Queerty will write 4 Obama silly bashing articles this week?
Chitown Kev
@Chitown Kev:
[REWIND]
In 2004, 89% of white people in Mississippi voted to add an amendment to their state Constitution banning gay marriage. That as opposed to 76% of black Mississippians. So who is more homophobic in Mississippi, white people or black people?
And if you go back and check every CNN exit poll on the marriage amendments in 2004, you will find that (other than Georgia) white people voted in the same percentages as black people in those amendments. Go check the polls, you can still find those exit polls on the CNN site.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
And there is no variation in black communities as regards homophobia such as region, income levels, education, etc…? It’s all just one big thinking body. And the white community is all one big thinking body, correct?
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: Assuming those statistics are correct (and you haven’t provided any proof that they are), then white people are more homophobic than black people in that particular state. However, “white people” is far too big an umbrella term (it covers ethnic Germans, Italians, Irish, Jews, Polish, Russian, etc.) so it’s not a distinct community like black people or Hispanics, for example.
Trey
@CitizenGeek: Ta-nehisis Coates puts it better than i can:
http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/05/gay_marriage_and_dc.php
I would never come to the conclusion that whites are homophobic based on the Morman church, Fred Phelps, Carrie Prejean, Tony Perkins, Evangelicals, the Pope, Moscow’s mayor, Joe the Plumber, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, and the Yes on Prop 8 folks. I know that the white community is not some monolithic group.
and cribbing Dan Savage’s post prop 8 rant doesn’t really prove your poing.
afrolito
@CitizenGeek:
“The handful of white racist gays”….
ROTFLMFAO!
Irish-americans are aren’t “disproportionately homophobic”? Really? Have any hard data to back that up? I think the gays fighting to be included in that stupid ass St. Patricks day parade (and being denied constantly), might have a different take on that.
It’s also news to me that catholics love gays too. Who knew?
French, germ, jews, native-americans, everybody loves the gays….except blacks of course. LMFAO!
strumpetwindsock
@CitizenGeek:
Haven’t we been through this before?
“Black” people are no more one culture than white people are, and for you to assume so shows that all you are looking at is the colour of their skin.
Do you need me to spell it out with a partial list again?
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: “And there is no variation in black communities as regards homophobia such as region, income levels, education, etc…? It’s all just one big thinking body. And the white community is all one big thinking body, correct?”
Naturally, there is. But if we take a majority of black people, irrespective of those factors, we see that they are more homophobic. In California, black people voted in a much, much larger percentage to approve Prop 8, while Hispanics and whites more or less voted against it by relatively small margins.
Besides, education, income level, etc. are really just excuses for homophobia which I have little time for. I don’t think homophobia has to result from poverty or from being uneducated. We know that most poor people are not racist or sexist, yet you would use the poverty excuse to justify homophobia?
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
Go look at the CNN exit polls from 2004. They’re still there, I looked at them a couple of weeks ago.
And while I will agree with you that there is a distinct “black community” there are sharp, sharp, differences within those communities, esp. according to income level and education.
That I know for a FACT.
afrolito
@CitizenGeek:
Blacks and hispanics are NOT a distinct group.
Both groups are just as varied, if not moreso, than white people.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
No, I’m not using to justify homophobia at all.
But poorer and less educated people do tend to be more homophobic. That’s true among any community.
strumpetwindsock
@Trey:
“Dan Savage’s post prop 8 rant doesn’t really prove your point.”
What it DOES show is that editorialists (like Dan, and this site) who twist things into a racist bias are responsible for more than their own opinions.
They give people the excuse to spread this shit and back it up with “sources” regardless of how illegitimate they are.
Irresponsible journalism (and I use the term lightly) is a lot more dangerous than people realize.
Trey
@CitizenGeek: OMG…You really do believe that all black people are the same, don’t you?
Chitown Kev
@afrolito:
Very, very varied. I black and I don’t fit into these notions of “the black community” that I read on queerty. And it has very, very little to do with being gay.
CitizenGeek
@Trey: So when Barack Obama and that gay black WaPo journo talk about the “homophobia problem” in the black community, they are simply mischaracterising the issue? Two promenent black people speak of this problem, one of them gay, and yet I’m still to believe that the idea that black people have a bigger problem with homophobia than white people is somehow incorrect?
Honestly, if I’m wrong here, I’ll certainly admit it and apologize for being mistaken, but it’s a tough pill to swallow when many black people themselves acknowledge this problem.
Lee
OF COURSE he won’t say anything pro-LGBT equality in Ghana…that might further embarrass his First Preacher Rick Warren who’s pseudo Xtian claws are disastrously deep in the country:
“Warren’s man in Uganda is a charismatic pastor named Martin Ssempa. The head of the Makerere Community Church, a rapidly growing congregation, Ssempe enjoys close ties to his country’s First Lady, Janet Museveni, and is a favorite of the [former] Bush White House. In the capitol of Kampala, Ssempa is known for his boisterous crusading. Ssempa’s stunts have included burning condoms in the name of Jesus and arranging the publication of names of homosexuals in cooperative local newspapers while lobbying for criminal penalties to imprison them.” – The Daily Beast.
As for Prolapsed Anuses for Obama, er Alec, can’t you just admit that it’s your mission to declaire ANY post not rimming Obama as ipso fact “a silly, obnoxious post.” But, let’s be objective, and deconstruct your defense.
1. Obama’s “record on DADT is bad.”
Uh, breath can be bad. Milk goes bad. An overcrowded bus to work where you’re too busy to stop for lunch makes a bad day. But Obama’s record on DADT is not just bad, it’s deceitful, disingenuous, indefensible, and destructive both to the lives of the dozens of people who have undoubtedly been discharged since he was sworn in and to our national security. But, hey, at least one of them got his autograph!
2. Obama “issued a statement in support of the hate crimes bill.” WOW!!! A statement, a real statement? Stop the presses! “In support”? That cinches his Nobel Peace Prize. No one else need apply! Add some elastic and you’d have a jock strap, Size Extra Small.
3. Obama “supports ENDA.” Break out the champagne! Ring the bells! We have TWO jock straps with the Seal of the President. [Could I get a slightly bigger size?]
4. Obama’s “appointed a bunch of openly gay people.” WOW! You mean like Clinton did? Oh, that’s right, most of the important ones WERE THE SAME PEOPLE! Hell, even Bush appointed some gays.
5. Obama called “for every nation to decriminalize homosexuality.” WOW in excelsis!!! Hosanna! Hosanna! I bet any minute now he’ll be calling for World Peace, be kind to animals, and adding funds for apples for teachers to the stimulus package.
6. Obama will “be the first president to sign pro-gay legislation.” That’s kind of like the argument the Logheaded Repugs used to paint Arnold as California’s Messiah for the Gays: “He’s signed more gay legislation than any CA other governor.” True, bitches, but he’s been given more legislation to sign than any other CA governor.
Thus, until he recovers from his inexplicable and indefensible paralysis and keeps his promises to proactively “throw the full weight of my administration behind” pro-gay legislation, why build statues to him, in advance even, for simply doing the right thing by signing legislation others created? Though they never reached his desk, Clinton said he would sign hate crimes legislation and ENDA, too. By your criteria for praise of Barry, Bill deserves a retroactive Good Intentions Award.
While Obama refuses to utilize the powers that Congress has given the president under “10 United Stated Code § 12305” for purposes of national security to issue an executive order freezing gay discharges until the law is repealed, Clinton issued executive orders overturning a half-century old ban on gay federal employees, forbidding gay discrimination in security clearances, and forbidding military recruiters from asking if someone is gay. Not “legislation” per se, but more admirable in terms of something an individual does on his/her own.
I apologize, I really do, for those who will shit and go blind because I had to mention you know who’s name in the process of making these distinctions you glossed over.
I’m surprised you left out: Obama invited gays to hunt Easter Eggs on the White House lawn. PROOF you know who actually hated us.
strumpetwindsock
@CitizenGeek:
There’s homophobia in ALL our communities.
What do you think you people are accomplishing by harping on problems in the black community. Do you think they are going to listen to you?
Suppose I take your position that you are not racist. Does it really matter? The fact is no African American is going to listen to you because you sound racist and you know nothing about their experience.
Perhaps your energy would be better spent focusing on the real problem – homophobia – and start with working on getting the rats out of your own fucking house before you point fingers at your neighbour.
Teaching by example is a little bit more effective than preaching and condemning.
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: “But poorer and less educated people do tend to be more homophobic. That’s true among any community.”
Are you saying, then, that perhaps black homophobia is a product of higher poverty rates among African-Americans and is not a cultural problem?
@Trey: “OMG…You really do believe that all black people are the same, don’t you?”
Of course I don’t. Please, Trey, get a grip. When I speak about “black people”, I mean “in general” (as in “the majority of”). When I say “Irish people drink a lot”, I don’t mean “every single Irish people, without exception, is a hardcore drinker” – it’s the same thing. A lot of your arguments seem to be full of nitpicking at my perfectly reasonable language and I don’t particularly appreciate that. I’d rather discuss the actual topic at hand instead of explaining simplistic, commonly-used terminology time after time.
strumpetwindsock
@CitizenGeek:
And what is the actual topic at hand?
Homophobia?
or how backwards black people are?
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
And Barack Obama talked about the homophobia problem in Catholic communities, on the Southwest side of Chicago, the Northwest Side of Chicago, and in downstate Illinois too, in 2004. Most of those are majortiy WHITE areas.
I’ll be the first to acknowledge it, Citizen Geek. But you are attributing solely to the fact that these communities are “black.” That’s where we disagree.
If any poll ever had the gumption to break out these race tabs according to religious affilitation (Protestants tend to be more homophobic than Catholics), income levels, and education, the correlations among all ethnicities would be very clear. Now tell me why there’s no available polling data for that? Why is noone interested in that?
So allow me to use Mississippi, Russia, and Texas as evidence that white people are HUGELY homophobic.
Even Dan Savage realizes that correlation, catch up!
Chitown Kev
@Lee:
Thank you Lee, for pointing out that it’s WHITE American Christian groups that continue to stir up the homo-hate in Africa.
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: “So allow me to use Mississippi, Russia, and Texas as evidence that white people are HUGELY homophobic.”
If you think those places are more homophobic that Africa, then I’ve no idea under what rock and on what planet you are living. There are pride parades in Texas and Mississippi and at least homosexuality and gay blood donations aren’t illegal in Russia.
Since there is homophobia everywhere, it’s a question of degree. And Africa (and thus African people) are homophobic to a much greater degree than any southern US state or eastern European country.
strumpetwindsock
@CitizenGeek:
Stats, please.
And what do you mean when you refer to “africa”?
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: “Thank you Lee, for pointing out that it’s WHITE American Christian groups that continue to stir up the homo-hate in Africa.”
Wow, you’re delusional. Blaming white folks for African homophobia now? That’s really quite shocking. Maybe some opportunistic Evangelical whites capitalise on African homophobia but to say it’s the fault of white people is just absurd.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
Ok, and South Africa (a majority black country) has full marriage equality and the United States does not.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
If I say “stir it up” that means that it already existed.
afrolito
@strumpetwindsock:
“And what do you mean when you refer to “africa”?
He obviously means to imply that Africa is a country, as opposed to the geographically, culturally, and linguistically, varied continent it is.
Racists just see black people.
strumpetwindsock
Perhaps you should acknowledge and get behind some of the people who are trying to change things in the many countries and cultures on the continent of Africa, rather than just assuming it is the worst place in the world.
http://www.afrol.com/articles/13584
The fact is it is the most used and abused place on earth on a lot of fronts. You want to know why things are the way they are there? Point your finger straight at our own countries (I only have to think of Canadian mining interests in Sudan that are aiding in the genocide).
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
The existence of a “pride parade” automatically infers less homophobia. Let’s see, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, Jackson Mississippi…I guess that covers it ALL!
Chitown Kev
@afrolito:
Sounds like Sarah Palin to me. LMAO!
CitizenGeek
@strumpetwindsock: “Stats, please.”
I don’t need statistics! Homosexuality is illegal in a plurality of African states, it’s even punishable by death in 3 or 4 of the aforementioned countries.
And what do you mean when you refer to “africa”?
Hmm, what do I mean when I say Africa? Well, you see, there’s this continent just below Europe …. and some people call it “Africa”. Maybe you’ve heard of it? If you’re asking me if I’m including the top of Africa (as in, those countries above the Sahara), then yes, I am.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
Homosexuality is illegal in India too.
CitizenGeek
On a personal note, are all of the gay posters here who are feigning outrage at my apparent “racism” going to tell me, honestly, that they would choose to live in an African or African-majority nation (such as Jamaica) over a European-majority country (the U.S., France, Spain, Scandanavia, even Poland or Russia, etc.)?
Trey
@CitizenGeek: i can’t understand how you can compare your making a generalization about Irish people to your generalization about the Black Race. In your mind, groups within the white community deserve distinction, yet the same cannot be said for blacks. You talk as if blacks are interchangeable. Your privilege and prejudice are just under the surface of your “reasonable” arguments.
QICM
I think there have been some attempts to do this, in more comprehensive surveys. Exit polling typically doesn’t do this, though.
Nevertheless, religious affiliation and age seem to be the primary predictors for support for gay rights. Race is too variable across geographic locations (i.e., white majority support for gay rights in California versus overwhelming opposition in the South).
It is also difficult to generalize too much about Protestants, since the variations between Protestant denominations are significant (the Southern Baptist Convention has very little in common theologically or politically with Presbyterians, after all).
What I think I loved the most, though, were allegations during the primary that then Senator Obama’s association with Trinity was indicative of a conservative bent on gay rights. That’s laughable and illustrates the unbelievable ignorance of some people on the differences between the denominations. One woman attempted to convince me that the United Methodists were more gay friendly than Wright’s congregation. Naturally, having been raised UMC I knew better.
This is such a stupid debate. Every survey indicates it is religion and age. People are simply too focused on a correlation to consider the cause.
Not that this article has anything to do with the “black homophobia” debate, but naturally any article on President Obama devolves into that conversation.
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: “Homosexuality is illegal in India too.”
But it’s obviously a symbolic law that’s rarely enforced and is on the verge of being lifted. There were even pride parades in Indian cities last year, without any violence.
I really don’t think that it’s important to prove that white people are less homophobic, in general, than black people, but it really, really annoys me when the same posters yell “racist” every time anyone points out African homophobia.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
Honey, I wouldn’t live my gay ass in Appalachia or Mississippi, or even in downstate Illinois if I were white.
OhYeah
You black guys are being WAY too oversensitive. Queerty has said way more evil things about various white folk than they’ve ever said about blacks, even the homophobic ones.
strumpetwindsock
@CitizenGeek:
Back to civics 101, are we?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African_countries
Pay attention to the languages – local, and of the colonizers.
Are you aware that virtually all those countries had their borders drawn up by white people? That the most of them were run by white people until they got their asses kicked out? That a good portion of the economies there are controlled by white people (soon to be taken over by chinese people)?
Yet when it comes to laying blame for discimination you see (not backed up by actual numbers) all you see is BLACK.
afrolito
Since gay marriage is illegal in a plurality of american states, that must mean blacks are the MAJORITY?
LMFAO!
Chitown Kev
@OhYeah:
My complaint would be less about queerty and more about the commenters, actually. Go back and check some of my comments on the Marion Barry threads, for example. I am equal opportunity mean, actually.
afrolito
@CitizenGeek:
I live in New York, and can honestly say, I would NEVER live in any state in this country, excepy perhaps California. You couldn’t pay me to live in the deep south, or the midwest. During the Bush reign of terror, I seriously considered moving to Paris.
OhYeah
Chitown Kev, Understood. And I’m not going to defend any genuinely racist people on here. I don’t see CitizenGeek as one, though. I think he’s just speaking the cold truth.
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: That’s intellectually dishonest in the extreme. South Africa only has marriage equality because whoever wrote the new, post-apartheid constitution failed to define marriage as one man, one woman and the Supreme Court of that country essentially legalised. To say it has broad support in that country would be stretching the truth.
Chitown Kev
@afrolito:
hey, Hey, HEY. Watch It!
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
And marriage equality has broad support amnong white people throughout the United States? Other than California and New York, where would that be?
Not in Iowa, if it were ever put to a vote today.
CitizenGeek
But actually, now that I think about it, the S. Africa point is largely fair considering the parliament was forced to pass the bill by a majority-black Constitutional Court. South Africa is, unfortunately, a rare exception and I can’t imagine very many black gay couples are availing of it. For example, it is know that very few black gays have been married in Massachusetts in the past 5 years. I wonder why?
Chitown Kev
@Chitown Kev:
and actually, I wouldn’t even say in California. Massachusetts, Maine, and Vermont maybe.
Lee
@CitizenGeek:
Jessica H. Christ, could you BE any more WILLFULLY stupid? Does NO ONE read anymore?
The variances over centuries and multiple cultures are too infinite to address here, but if you HAD read anything, Your Geekness, you’d know that to one degree or another virtually all cultures allowed at least some expressions of same-gender sexuality UNTIL WHITE JUDAEO-XTIAN MISSIONARIES ARRIVED.
Africa, Asia [most ironic in China, the land of “the cut sleeve,” which perpetuates Xtian-taught homophobia long after having officially repressed Xtianity itself], South America [“the Amazon” and “Amazon River” were named by Catholic Spaniard invaders after observing native lesbians whom they associated with the legend of Amazon women], “Native America,” etc.
And who can forget the most recent example of the dishonesty of Greek homophobes who, like many Greeks are so proud of how much their heritage has contributed to democracy and culture, but who conveniently, after having been brainwashed by Xtianity, want to erase the homosexuality among their greatest real and mythical heroes. A group of Greek lawyers threatened to sue Oliver Stone [tho Zeus only knows under what law] for daring suggest that Alexander the Great swung his sword both ways.
strumpetwindsock
@OhYeah:
To lie by omission (discounting homophobia everywhere else) is no less a lie.
I don’t think he’s telling the truth at all.
@CitizenGeek:
What…. they forgot to act like the homophobes you think they are? That’s comvenient.
I guess Canadians aren’t listening to our inner homophobes either, because our marriage law is in essence the same – two persons. Can we blame that one on a black conspiracy too?
Trey
@CitizenGeek: sigh…now you’re just being insensitive. Should I choose the homophobia in Jamaica over the racism and homophobia in Russia?
Your hypothetical comes really close to Pat Buchanan’s declaration that blacks should be grateful to be in America.
CitizenGeek
@Chitown Kev: At least we’re actually talking about same sex marriage in the U.S. and a majority of Democrats (one of the two major parties) support it by a large margin. In Africa and African-majority countries, there’s not even a debate about whether gays should be imprisioned or tortured or put to death by their own countries. I don’t see why you’re unable to condemn this behaviour without suffixing it with “but white people are homophobic too!” as if that somehow excuses the hideous homophobia of African nations. Jamaica is the world’s most homophobic country (arguably, at least) and guess what, the majority of people there are black.
I’m not saying black people are inherently ignorant or anything stupid like that, but I would like to know WHY Africans are so slow to progress on this issue?
Lee
PS: While India treated homosexuality in pre-colonial times in a mix of ways, antisodomy laws were introduced by the WHITE British.
Apparently about half the countries in the world that still have sodomy laws were the results of WHITE British Xtian colonization.
QICM
@CitizenGeek: I think I’d rather live in South Africa over Poland or Russia. But that’s kind of a silly question; Thailand is very gay friendly and I’d never want to live there. The US South isn’t very gay friendly, but I’d certainly live there over, say, Italy or France.
China is more gay friendly than Lebanon, but a case could be made for the latter, even if you’re gay, over the former. For many reasons.
I wouldn’t live in Haiti for a variety of reasons, but homophobia isn’t one of them.
An acquaintance of mine who is gay lived in Gabon for two and a half years. He had a boyfriend while he was there and didn’t have any problems. I still don’t think he would want to live there, and again, homophobia isn’t the reason (they were one of the African nations to call for decriminalization of homosexuality).
Africa isn’t monolithic. There are plenty of nations where homosexuality is legal. A lot of these countries (most) don’t ban anti-gay discrimination or permit same-sex marriages, but they also don’t have legal systems that are equivalent to our own, and the absence of sodomy laws is often the major issue. And a lot of this is the result of colonial and religious influence.
Finally, I think it is hard to get a handle on what actually takes place in Africa. Morocco has laws against gay sex, but they’re very selectively enforced and there’s a thriving gay scene.
CitizenGeek
@Lee: So white people have managed to overcome Christian homophobia (largely, at least in Western Europe and most of the U.S.) but Africans have not, and yet we should still blame whites are African homophobia. Sorry, black people are responsible for their own behaviour.
The kind of logical gymnastics that people are using here to get out of saying “Africa has a homophobia problem that is much, much greater than most majority white-countries have” is truly astounding.
Lee
“WHY Africans are so slow to progress on this issue”????
For the same reason WHITE Russians [no pun intended] physically attacked a handful of gay demonstrators AGAIN this weekend.
Religion religion religion GODDAMN RELIGION. Fuck the pun!
Alec
@CitizenGeek: The authors of the South African constitution explicitly included sexual orientation as a prohibited basis for discrimination. The result, once it was challenged in the constitutional court, was a foregone conclusion. I’ve actually listened to a former South African justice speak on the issue; he said it was an easy case and there was virtually no debate in chambers.
strumpetwindsock
@CitizenGeek:
You may have missed my question aways up there, but it was significant:
And what is the actual topic at hand?
Homophobia?
or how backwards black people are?
From your argument it is getting increasingly hard to tell which is most important for you.
Sam
@CitizenGeek: “You’re acting like we’re being unreasonable for expecting our president (a man took all the money, all the media coverage and all the votes that the gay community provides) to mention us even once in his first 4 months.”
He’s “mentioned us” multiple times since being inaugurated. He’s also called on Congress to pass a major piece of pro-LGBT legislation and had the U.S. sign on to an international LGBT rights resolution.
Maybe you should read something not posted on Queerty. It might ground you in reality.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
And the Republicans (the other of the 2 major parties) are NOT talking about marriage equality.
Of course I would (and have) condemned these homophobic laws in Africa as well as the homophobia in the black community, sometimes to the consternation of a few of the other black posters at Queerty. But i do think you need to get out of, say, the Castro, West Hollywood, or Chelsea and move around to other “white communities”. Even the gay guys in Boystown here have that much sense.
Honey, you live in a bubble, obviously.
of course, most of them are from the Midwest (like myself) and we know better.
CitizenGeek
@Lee: Well then why are Africans so slow to overcome the relgious hurdles, like Spain, the U.S., Ireland, Sweden, The Netherlands, etc. have done?
Alec
@CitizenGeek: The sodomy laws are being debated almost everywhere in Africa. They’re not up for debate in Iran and Saudi Arabia or other religious authoritarian theocracies, but the punishments are.
Africa is way too complex to simply condemn it all as homophobic. Quite a number of African countries do not criminalize gay sex and in many of the countries that do it is as symbolic as it is in India. There are only a handful of countries that are known for having extreme anti-gay views.
Alec
@Chitown Kev: Maybe he should try living in Michigan for a while. I seriously doubt he’d want to live on the West side of the state, and I have a feeling Detroit proper wouldn’t feel nearly as scary.
CitizenGeek
@Sam: Congress would have passed that without him. He’s “mentioned us”? That’s news to me. Where has done this mentioning?
Chitown Kev
@Alec:
Sheeit, maybe he should live in Indiana as long as it isn’t Indianapolis, Bloomington, or even Gary.
TANK
@Alec:
Symbolic as it is in india? SO people are arrested, then, right? Arrested and tried like in india, yes?
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
Italy hasn’t overcome the religious hurdle, though. Of course, I guess it has to do with all those tanned Sicilians…
Lee
“Sorry, black people are responsible for their own behaviour”
All you’re doing is adding evidence that the source of your “argument” is racism!
You refuse to take into account all the educational, economic, and ruling government factors that play a role.
That’s like saying, it’s their own goddamn fault the Zulus speak Zulu. If they weren’t “inferior” they’d speak English.
Native Americans, South Americans, India’s native population, Africans were FORCED centuries ago to adopt WHITE ways including homophobia, and you look for some inherent reason why generations later many still, unexposed to pluralism, have digested it?
I apologize to no one for criticizing those American blacks who fail to see the correlation between LGBT oppression/equality and their own, for the way the same Bible upon which they justify their homophobia was used to justify slavery, but I still get how, even in our pluralistic society, the positive role the “Black Church” played in their survival brought with it some harsh negatives such as virtually institutionalized homophobia along with a parallel negative…distrust of the government…that combines with homophobia to contribute to the frighteningly disproportionate HIV infection rates among American blacks, straight, gay, and polymorphous perverse.
TANK
I’m rather surprised that there aren’t a bunch of people jumping on lee blaming religion for the intolerance of many african nations (homosexuality is illegal in 2/3rds of all african nations, btw)… Usually that’s what happens. Some effete “can’t we all just get along” christer like strumpet has something useless to interject.
Alec
@TANK: Yes. It was CitizenGeek who suggested that India’s anti-gay sodomy law wasn’t a big deal because it was mostly “symbolic.”
That being said, there are some countries (Singapore) that do not prosecute sodomy cases but keep them on the books for ostensibly symbolic purposes.
Anthony in Nashville
Sorry to be late to the party, but as others have said, this is a post without a point.
There is enough to criticize Obama on with regard to LGBT issues in the US, no need to start mentioning other nations.
TANK
@Alec:
well, then he’s a fool as men are arrested for “homosexuality” in india.
http://www.doctorndtv.com/news/detailnews.asp?id=1842
Chitown Kev
102 and counting.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
Sorry, I must have missed the part where you think I was disagreeing with Lee.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
No, I surprised you’re not disagreeing with him as you take the most absurd positions, generally–esp. concerning religion, in its defense. Would you like to remind lee of the church of canada and the uuc? How gay friendly christers are…lol
Chitown Kev
@Lee:
excellent post.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
So (as usual) you’re insulting me for things I haven’t even said.
As you say… useless interjections.
Do you have something to add that’s actually on topic?
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
But you have said them. You have on numerous occasions on several different comments sections misinterpreted other’s condemnation of religious extremism as “all christians hate gay people” and then, bring up a statistical minority to defend christianity against the charge made against extremism and offocial, say, catholic dogma (that is the official catholic mantra, and most catholics worldwide are antigay). It’s sad and pathetic, actually.
Chitown Kev
@TANK:
TANK….you’re trying to turn this into a 500 posts thread, aren’t you ? 🙂
TANK
@Chitown Kev:
This is why I need to dial it down a bit. It seems that every time I comment, that’s what happens.
Lee
Full circle:
[img]http://www4.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/McCain+Obama+Attend+Campaign+Forum+California+A7-SlY-JoU0l.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.waynebesen.com/uploaded_images/Uganda-776631.png[/img]
Chitown Kev
@Lee:
I wonder why they didn’t name the bottom homos, Lee.
Chitown Kev
@Chitown Kev:
Sorry, tasteless joke…
Dabq
@CitizenGeek: LOL you are one of the reason no black people gay or straight will ever get on the gay civil rights issue. the Irish are as anti-black, straight gay or otherwise, have been since they were deemed white after being treated the same as blacks at the turn of the century and got bold with it during school desegregation in the 197’s to the point they would make the biggest racist around blush. And, since you have Hannity and O’Rielly who are anti-gay and anti-black, I guess it just must be the whole Irish community that they speak for and you agree with, since according to your vast and odd take that every black person in this country is homophobic.
Bust like most of those with race hang-ups and a need to blame others, they learned it at home, so, its more pity on you than anything else.
strumpetwindsock
@Chitown Kev:
That’s usually the best kind…. and you know SOMEBODY was going to come up with it.
Anyway, looks like CitizenGeek is off having lunch. I’m outta here.
Dabq
@CitizenGeek: Who is this us? People who look like you only? os it for all in the glbt communtiy?
Chitown Kev
@Dabq:
hey, I am all on board the gay civil rights. Although I do feel the need to call out the racism, noone would ever confuse me with Jas…She Who Shall Not Be Named…
Dabq
@Chitown Kev: When it comes to racism, I will call out anyone for it, and, I don’t care if they are gay or straight, and, Lord knows there are more than a few gay racists. I deplore it and, the stories I heard from my grandparents and parents, Mexican Americans in Texas and California of the abuse they took based on race, I will always call out a racist, especially gay ones who are screeching for their civil rights and yet hate gays who are not white and those who will not speak up to them and call them out for the same hypocrisy that they are throwing to Obama.
How dare the posters here scream for fairness and equality when they have no clue as to what either is and are doing the same thing that the right wing anti-gay groups do, hate people who are different and it mocks those of us who are fighting for equality for all in the glbt community, not just the circuit boys.
Chitown Kev
@Dabq:
But I can make the distinction between when someone is racially ignorant (unexamined white privilege) and out and out racist (really does not like black people).
IMO, there’s more of the former than the latter, although there are far too many of both.
Chitown Kev
“…and yet hate gays who are not white and those who will not speak up to them and call them out for the same hypocrisy that they are throwing to Obama.”
Now this is a thread in and of itself. Do white gays really dislike or even hate black/Latino gays and if so (besides the obvious), why?
Lee
“the same hypocrisy that they are throwing to Obama”????
Christ of the Andes! Every time you run up that All Criticism of Obama Is Just Racism flag fewer idiots salute.
Time to trade it in for a new excuse. Suggestions:
They’re all Yalies–they just hate him because he went to Harvard.
They’re all baseball fanatics–they just hate him because he likes basketball.
They all work for Lou Malnati’s–they just hate him because he prefers Italian Fiesta Pizzeria in Hyde Park.
They’re all Beatles fans–they just hate him because he prefers the Stones.
They’re all righties–they just hate him because he’s left-handed.
Chitown Kev
@Lee:
yeah, I get really tired of that one excuse/deflection myself, as I hear it from black straight people quite a bit. It makes about as much sense as the other examples that you posted.
Not to say that a little of isn’t racism…
strumpetwindsock
@Chitown Kev:
I agree absolutely… there is a difference between hardcore bigots and those who have just learned to mistrust. The fact is we all have some discrimination, however subtle. Looking too far into that will make you crazy though.
I think the real issue is similar to what you’re pointing out, though from exactly the opposite direction.
I think we need to get the pride, ego, blame, and “degrees of guilt” out of the equation and just do what we can to dispel all these myths. Malice does matter in one sense, but only in terms of our personal pride and ego.
Like someone who takes it personally when they get corrected, once you take that ego out of the equation its not really important in terms of getting rid of the problems of racism and homophobia.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Alec:
This is why I barely write on this site anymore..
@CitizenGeek:
Are you that dumb??
Have you heard of colonisation? The White man and the bible with the gun?
Those countries you mentioned…..have they been inslaved for centuries…??
Have you heard christ economies or politics? When you see an issue do you swallow up what you are told OR do you reasearch to gain a better understanding?
Have you ever done an essay? Y’know were you are required to give several sources of information for your ideas?
Lee
@Chitown Kev:
Sadly, I agree. I’ll throw down against that Professional Perpetual Victim Cannick anytime, but assuming [which is generous I know] that the exit polls in 2000, 2004, and 2008 were essentially equal in accuracy, the only variable I can imagine that might explain the higher percentage of self-identified gays who voted Repug in 08 versus 00/04 is race.
Yes, it’s possible that the right did an even better job of painting Obama as someone who would take away all the precious toys from the Material Girls than they did Gore or Kerry, but, overall, I think the propaganda was essentially the same.
After coming out, I had a number of preconceptions, both good and bad, exploded. But the most naive was that white gays who had known so much oppression and discrimination couldn’t possibly be racist. I still believe we, as a group, are less likely to be than nongay whites, but it still exists.
Whereas I’m proud to say that the first demonstration I ever particpated in was against George Wallace when he was running for President [again, yes, I’m ancient, permission to shoot me]. And I know for a fact that some of the whites who participated in the black civil rights movement were gay.
And want to believe that the too high walls that still divide us will come down in my lifetime and nongays of color and gays of all colors, together, will kick some political ass!
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Chitown Kev:
Because they are black/latino/chinese….
It IS the obvious. Don’t try and use high intergerative complexity reading and thought with that simple human issue of prejudice.
But their are different levels of hate that they have…and stereotypes..
Anyway, Egypt (north africa) was the first civilisation so I don’t care…
FYI, Egyptians thousand’s of years ago were a mixture of blacks and arabs…see Morrocans..
Chitown Kev
@Lee:
Oh, there are a lot of variables to that 27% of gays that voted Repub (up from 23%) in 2004.
Also look at the 7% decrease from the 77% that voted for Kerry to the 70% that voted for Obama (which was the same level that gays voted for Clinton, by the way).
I’ve done the numbers. To the extent that it was racism, it was Southern racism, not anything that came out of Chelsea, West Hollywood, or the Castro. And defintely not Boystown.
There wer an increased number that either sat out or voted for Cynthia McKinney too.
InExile
Why would Gays be on Obama’s African agenda??? Gays are not on his agenda in the USA so why would anyone think he would care about gays in Africa? He got our votes, our money, and our time campaigning, and now he has no need for us!
Chitown Kev
@Lee:
One variable that I have read about is where they poll for gay people.
During the Clinton era, they used to poll almost exclusively in New York and California. Now more gay communities get polled, therefore the diversity of the gay vote is now coming into consciousness.
Second of all, there was the Donnie MCclurkin factor with Obama. Even to me, that was a disgusting move on Obamas part (that She Who Shall Not be Named blamed on white gays).
Chitown Kev
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Oh, I am very aware of the degrees of it. It’s not like white gays that are the only ones that do it, that’s how I know.
The weird looks, the noshaking hands, that 1 second look of utter disgust (how dare this black person talk to me!), I get that…
Then again there’s the “Have you ever had sex with a white guy” question…always a date ender. There’s the family members who don’t mind that I’m gay but would not be accepting of a white boyfriend, fiance, or husband under any circumstances.
So I get it both ways from all sides…
Lee
@Chitown Kev:
“I’ve done the numbers.” And St. Judy blesses you for that! I can read sociological and historical narrative analyses 24-7 but anything involving numbers involved in polls or anything else that purports to be objective or “constant” drives me bonkers. [Any thoughts on whether the earlier election higher percentages were simply the result of a lower percentage of voters being willing in 2000 or 92 to self-identify as gay?]
“To the extent that it was racism, it was Southern racism”…that’s good to know…kinda. LOL.
“There wer an increased number that either sat out or voted for Cynthia McKinney too.”
Excuse me a moment while I shoot myself.
[img]http://www.kamenypapers.org/memorabilia/kamey-congress-brochure.jpg[/img]
Chitown Kev
Data available thus far on voting in heavily gay precincts suggest the GLBT vote for Obama was at an unprecedented high. In the last several presidential elections, the percentage of GLBT voters supporting the Democrat has hovered around 70 to 75 percent. But Tuesday’s voting was much stronger:
* In heavily gay Provincetown, Mass., 87 percent of voters supported Obama, compared to only 11 percent for McCain, and two percent for others or no votes. Massachusetts overall voted 62 percent for Obama, 36 percent for McCain.
* While 61 percent of Californians supported Obama versus 37 percent for McCain, 85 percent of heavily gay San Francisco supported Obama versus 13 percent for McCain and two percent for others.
* Fifty-five percent of voters in Pennsylvania supported Obama versus 45 percent for McCain, but in heavily gay Wards 2 and 5 of Philadelphia, 83 percent of voters supported Obama.
* In heavily gay Dupont Circle Precinct 15 in Washington, D.C., Obama won 89 percent of the vote.
* In the heavily gay precinct 1233 in Dallas, 63 percent of the vote supported Obama while 57 percent of the city did so and 55 percent of the state supported McCain.
* Chicago’s heavily gay Ward 44 went 86 percent for Obama and 13 percent for McCain.
The Times also noted:
However, voting appears to have been very close in some states that were important to his success. In Florida, where a typical distribution of the gay votes – historically (70 percent) – would have provided the Democrat with about 275,000 votes, Obama won by only 199,000 votes. And while the Sunshine State overall gave Obama 51 percent of the vote, heavily gay Miami-Dade – home of gay popular resort South Beach – gave him 58 percent.
Chitown Kev
[Any thoughts on whether the earlier election higher percentages were simply the result of a lower percentage of voters being willing in 2000 or 92 to self-identify as gay?]
I don’t think so. I think that they concentrated “gay and lesbian polling” to places that conjure in the mind when one thinks of “gay and lesbian.” Meaning Chelsea, West Hollywood, Castro, maybe Boystown, D.C. etc. Now the community is dispersed more widely across the United States and pollsters poll there.
I personally think the variation was there all the time.
Lee
@Chitown Kev:
Respectfully, just two important qualifiers:
1. “self-identified” voters
2. Did they not almost always if not always ask about “gay/lesbian” or GLB voters rather than “GLBT” voters?
Chitown Kev
@Lee:
Interesting, now that I think about it.
Just because you poll in a “heavily gay ward” doen’t mean that it’s a gay person that voted…
Have to go back and look at these damn polls again…
But I think CNN’s was self-identified gay voters, though.
Now I I were able to do an adequate job on this, this would be a far more worthwhile story than the some of the shit that queerty’s been doing lately.
Then again, maybe I should do up my own damn blog instead of being a smart ass.
Dabq
@Lee: Well, maybe its just the gay blogs that have racially tinged issues with Obama. I frequent many straight political sites and seldom is his blackness an issue just that they don’t like what he is doing, here its his blackness or black people as a whole is in each and every thread here with Obama as the topic, this one included it the first paragraph in quotations and in a very racial way. I don’t write the stories, I read them and comment.
Dabq
@Chitown Kev: I think that you might be onto something, maybe its the white male privilege that makes them clueless, to not get what they want when they want as they have been able to their whole lives just confuses them beyond belief! That they have to fight for equality like minorities who can’t pass into a society that says white and male is perfect is just too stressful and the fact that they have to deal and work with minorities on gay issues as equals is scary as well, which is why you don’t see any black faces at any of the gay rights organizations!
Dabq
@Chitown Kev: I think you should start up your own blog, you make more sense on these politcal issues that this one.
afrolito
Anyone who puts his trust and bases his opinions on “polls” is a moron. They only reveal what people want to read into them.
Chitown Kev
@Dabq:
I don’t see race baiting in Andy Towle’s actual stories, though I see it all the time in the comments. And in Pam’s House Blend…well…Pam can go there though…
And just what is his “blackness” supposed to signify, anyway?
If Obama was “high yellow” I wonder if it would make a difference in the comments…
his “half-whiteness” was certainly an issue in the African American community in Chicago…see, I can go there…
TANK
@afrolito:
This is a ridiculous statement. Are you calling barack obama a moron? Because there isn’t isn’t a politician alive who doesn’t base his entire campaign on, basically, polling data. Polling is simply the best way to gauge the attitudes of large groups of people before an election. Very rarely is one steered wrong with good polling data.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
🙁
My comments aren’t going through.
Chitown Kev
@afrolito:
Well, polls and data capture a snapshot of something. After all, the polling was, in most cases, dead on for the 2008 elections.
The Election Day polls said Obama could possibly pull out a close win in Indiana, for example. I didn’t believe them then, and I still can’t believe he won that state.
Usually, polls beg more questions as opposed to answering questions, though.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Chitown Kev:
“Oh, I am very aware of the degrees of it. It’s not like white gays that are the only ones that do it, that’s how I know.
The weird looks, the noshaking hands, that 1 second look of utter disgust (how dare this black person talk to me!), I get that…
Then again there’s the “Have you ever had sex with a white guy” question…always a date ender. There’s the family members who don’t mind that I’m gay but would not be accepting of a white boyfriend, fiance, or husband under any circumstances.
So I get it both ways from all sides…”
All I wanted to say but keep on not getting it set is that how can you compare 2 very different factors?
That of a white person who has no genuine concept of persecution and blacks who have being in slaved in times to rival the jews??
Dabq
@Chitown Kev: I think that the in quotes about his “blackness” turned me off more than the inaccuracy of the article, which seems to be par for the course on this site. Andy Towle is great, he puts out the story without his personal take on it, Rod McC does it as well with is reporting the few times I have hit that site. On ASndy’s site if something gets some people riled up and it does quite often, and, from the same posters as here, but, if racial slurs are used, a quick email to him gets them removed something I’ve never seen here.
afrolito
@Chitown Kev:
Actually his “half whiteness” was what got him elected by a lot of white people in this country. He represents the safe, non threatening negro. The media was certainly obsessed by it, and never missed a chance to go on and on about his sainted white mother, and racist grandmother who raised him. Most black people I know couldn’t care less about his biracial background, since most of us are mixed anyway….so big deal.
Of course, when the backlash starts (and it’s already starting with the white gays), he’ll be just another nigger to blame.
Dabq
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): You make valid points, but, any historian will tell you that the brutal slavery of American blacks has never been done to any other group in the world and no group comes cloe to that abuse.
Dabq
@afrolito: Well they are blaming him daily here, and, using that vile word that makes me want to puke.
TANK
@Dabq:
Compare the suffering game, I see. Chattel slavery, you’re referring to, was never carried out in human history? Don’t be a stereotype…because you’re just a stone’s throw away from “hymie town”…tread carefully, prodigy.
TANK
and if you want go for the gold, throughout history…jewish history, jews have been persecuted relentlessly. In fact, the twentieth century holocaust wasn’t the first one…throughout european history, jews were subjected to purges and antisemitic laws. But chattel slavery was also terrible. I just don’t think it’s very intelligent to turn large scale minority suffering into a game with winners and losers, because after all, everyone loses in that crude spectacle. And it’s losers who do it.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Dabq:
Hmm, not saying anything but brutality is very equal opp in what it does…
The bottom line for me is that, Blacks are dark…are a universial hatred/dislike for that skin colour..
People can say what they want but ‘love and life sees colour’…
:/
Bill Perdue
It’s perfectly fair to criticize Obama for neglecting the plight of GLBT folks in overexploited (as supposed to underdeveloped) nations. The worst anti-GLBT laws in these nations are a remnant of colonial rule by European christers.
In addition to anti-GLBT bigotry all Africans face the problems caused by predatory empire builders like the US and because of the neo-colonialist relations they have with nations like England and France. Obama can be counted on to do nothing to impede the grasping efforts of US and EU corporations to extract natural resources and interest income.
To say that Obama’s signature on the UN resolution condemning anti-LGBT laws is moronic. It’s a fig leaf to cover his increasing hostility to our agenda and nothing more. What little he will do is because our movement is growing in numbers, militancy and political savvy and rejecting sleazy Democrat and Republican hustlers like H. Clinton, Obama and McCain.
If Obama wants to help the situation in Africa he should do three things:
A. Work to excuse the US and IMF portions of the national debts of African countries. Encourage EU and other debt holding nations to excuse what’s owed by debtor nations. (This might come in handy when the Peoples Republic of China calls in their debts.)
B. Spend hundreds of billions to provide a massive educational effort free of anti-scientific christer bigotry and misinformation and for medical and preventive supplies. In many African nations the health system has collapsed because of the high rate of HIV/AIDS, caused by christer misinformation campaigns. (The situation is very reminiscent of the early days of HIV/AIDS in the US when programs for education and research were sidelined in a way that led many of us to believe the Reagan Administration and the cults wanted us to die.)
C. Open the doors of US embassies and consulates to provide immediate and unlimited rights of asylum in the US to GLBT folks and others fleeing certain death and torture at the hands of christer and islamist bigots.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@TANK:
“and if you want go for the gold, throughout history…jewish history, jews have been persecuted relentlessly.”
TANK you’re a prick.
Or Tool??
Look at your fucking history, blacks and Jews have been enslaved since Egytian time.
BC.
But now Jews can pass because people are so dumb.
Can a blackie???
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Bill Perdue:
As much as I agree with YOU Bill…how will this logistically and practily happen?
Chris_Yes that one
I guess Queerty wanted to give the Russian Homophobes some light so they’re back with the Barack The Homophobe posts. Once again Russians and other white countries are beating and killing the gays. But it is something about Barack Obama that brings out the worst from our community. Then again he wasn’t their choice for President neither.
I really wonder why? I am not defending anyone’s homphobia because I am not too pleased he hasn’t moved on issues that concerns us. But I am also being patient.
But I am also not too pleased with our community that is constantly saying that ALL Blacks are homphobic. This Russia shit should tell you HOMOPHOBIA has no name and NO BOUNDRIES.
Then again when YOU have PERSONAL race issues it’s easy to make a group you DON’T LIKE your whipping boy so to speak for your anger.
UGH!!!! SO HYPOCRITICAL AREN’T WE?
Chris_Yes that one
When I said :Then again he wasn’t their choice for President neither.
I was meaning he wasn’t Queerty’s choice for P.O.T.U.S
Bill Perdue
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): With all the enormous and autonomus power to the US Presidency Obama can make it happen overnight.
Nothing happens without a fight. The point is to organize ourselves and others to demand them. If you’re on a campus in England contact the likely student groups and faculty unions to demand that Brown adopt these policies. Raise the question with your MEP’s.
TANK
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Started drinking early, yes? Perhaps you didn’t understand what I wrote. Read it again…slowly and with a guide. I don’t think relying on some crude “visceral” metric to compare which persecuted minority suffered “more” historically is relevant, nor is it something one can assert with any degree of accuracy when comparing these two groups. Definitions of race come into play, and are awfully tricky as well.
CitizenGeek
@Dabq:”the Irish are as anti-black, straight gay or otherwise, have been since they were deemed white after being treated the same as blacks at the turn of the century and got bold with it during school desegregation in the 197’s to the point they would make the biggest racist around blush.”
What are you talking about? The Irish were indeed horrifically racist at the start of the 20th century, but the Irish -PROGRESSED-. If you honestly believe the Irish are still racist (which is laughable), then you’ll have to explain to me why the state with the highest concentration of Irish-Americans (Massachusetts) is one of only two states with a black governor. In fact, New England (which is majority Irish-American) is by far the most progressive part of this country. I was in county Offaly (in Ireland) last summer and the mayor there is an African emigrant. The people of that small town in Ireland voted for an African mayor with indifference to his colour. You’re full of shit, quite frankly.
“And, since you have Hannity and O’Rielly who are anti-gay and anti-black, I guess it just must be the whole Irish community that they speak for and you agree with, since according to your vast and odd take that every black person in this country is homophobic.”
Last time I checked, HIV rates weren’t disproportionately higer for Irish-Americans. They were for African-Americans though, and if you’re going to tell me that has nothing to do with homophobia being a bigger problem for the black community in the U.S., then go ahead, but don’t expect me to buy it.
“Bust like most of those with race hang-ups and a need to blame others, they learned it at home, so, its more pity on you than anything else.”
Race hang ups? WTF?
Again, I’m genuinely shocked at the logic gymnastics people are using here to essentially try to pretend that white people and black people in the U.S. are equally homophobic. Polling data from California, rap music, the higher HIV rates all seem to suggest to me that black folks are more homophobic and as such, tackling the problem among blacks requires a different approach. But I’m just a racist, what would I know?
TANK
And jews can pass? LOL! I assure you, antisemitism is still very healthy in many parts of the united states and globe.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Bill Perdue:
This has alway being when I disagree.
I COMPLETELY agree and was/is the biggest ardent socialist….but I’m realistic.
How will this work with people who aren’t like us, or NICE?
I’ve been demanding and demanding from the age of 18 to now 28….and nothing yet.
What do you say??
Lee
@Dabq:
“the brutal slavery of American blacks has never been done to any other group in the world and no group comes cloe to that abuse”
Oh, where to begin, where to begin?
1. Black slaves in America had often originally been purchased from other BLACKS in Africa.
2. There were even a few blacks IN AMERICA who owned black slaves. According to the 1860 US Census, Francine Chevalier, a “mulatto,” owned six slaves.
3. Black-on-black slavery STILL exists in some parts of the world, including Niger and Chad.
4. German gas chambers or slavery? Native American genocide or slavery? Cambodian genocide of slavery? Choose.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@TANK:
“And jews can pass? LOL! I assure you, antisemitism is still very healthy in many parts of the united states and globe.”
And how am I disputing this? Do YOU know that Jews come from so many races from Woody allen Eastern European red hair to Jew fro…to Iraelists to Ethopians etc etc…
So??
strumpetwindsock
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Actually the only source material for the Jews being slaves in Egypt is the Bible.
There is a theory that the Jews were actually the descendants of the Hyksos Dynasty who ruled northern Egypt, before they git kicked out by the ethnic Egyptians.
The account of Moses is actually a propaganda piece designed to cast the whole affair in a more sympathetic light.
I’m not taking issue with the terrible history of the Jews in Europe, but the slavery in Egypt is just as much a myth as Sodom and Gomorrah. The prevailing belief now is that the Egyptians hardly kept slaves at all.
Dabq
@TANK: Sorry grass hopper, I have no idea what that word means, so, if you are using it, must not be a nice way to descibe someone.
Dabq
@Lee: You left out the rampant discrimination that white gay men get at the hand of blacks, since that’s all you usually have to offer. Sorry, can’t pick and chose who you deem get the short end of the stick that makes you feel better about your own issues with black folks.
Lee
@Dabq:
What the fuck are you farting about now, you willful retard?
Cue the banjo theme from “Deliverance.”
Chitown Kev
@afrolito:
perhaps not around the country, but the old time civil rights leaders and their constituents in the black community in Chicago sure cared about his “half-whiteness.”
yet another reason why these race-tinged threads about Obama are so funny and so…familiar.
Dabq
@CitizenGeek: *yawn* more of the same drivel, as I said, you are Irish, and according to your thoughts all Irish must be racists since the main spokespeople for that community are, and, like all blacks who agree with the homophobes in that community. So, your point of view on blacks is the same as O’Rielly and Hannity, unless some phantom is using your computer and the posts you put here are not your thoughts and the last line is about the only truth you have posted on this topic. And just keep it real, you don’t care about anything going on in Africa and the brutal, oppressive treatment the black gays and lesbians are getting, unless of course it can get you gay marriage in this country.
afrolito
@Chitown Kev:
What does any of that have to do with anything I said about his depiction by the white media? or his “acceptance” by white voters?
I really hate people who sit on the fence, and have no real opinions. No one trusts that kind of person.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
No, that’s not the prevailing view. It is pretty much historical fact cross referenced by more than just the bible that jews were enslaved by egyptians. I don’t know what’s fueling this new antisemitic wave coming from you, but you’re subject to greater lapses in historical knowledge, basic reasoning and absurdity.
TANK
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Right, but if you don’t think that jews have been treated as a racie distinct from caucasians and that there are many similar characteristics amongst them that have been used to identify them (at least most european jews), then you’re not dealing with a full deck.
afrolito
@strumpetwindsock:
“Actually the only source material for the Jews being slaves in Egypt is the Bible.”
So true.
There is very little (if any) historical evidence of the exodus, or the enslavement of jews in Egypt. FACT.
Dabq
@afrolito: LOL, that fantasy from a book of fairy tales is why there is so much hate in this world today.
TANK
@Dabq:
It means you’re a cuntish antisemite. A piggy, actually, to engage in a crude little comparison of who suffered greater. You’re a fucking moron.
TANK
@afrolito:
I would expect this from the resident jasmyne canick. Another antisemitic BLACK.
Chitown Kev
@afrolito:
Because it was his acceptance by white voters here in Chicago that drew both attention to Obama and resentment by many in the black community, that’s why.
I’ve observed the media phenomenon that is Barack Obama far longer than you.
That is why the whole Donnie McClurkin episode was necessary for Obama, after all. Assimilation into the the black community. Obama played that race game to the hilt, his damn self.
Dabq
@TANK: Well, I guess I win, since the truth has set you free, and, typcial of your ilk, name calling when you don’t have facts to back your nonsense and justify your hatred of blacks up.
TANK
@Dabq:
What are you talking about, douchewad? YOu said that the BLACKS suffered more than the jews historically. Prove it.
TANK
And don’t confuse the lack of evidence of the exodus from egypt as entailing that jews weren’t enslaved by the egyptians. And not necessarily because they were jews, just there as conquered people.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
How am I being anti-semitic? I just said I am well aware of the horrible treatment of Jewish people in Europe; I have made reference to it a few times myself.
But it is not an established fact that there was slavery in Ancient Egypt. And the only original source text for the Jewish enslavement is the Bible.
And there is a theory that the Hyksos, the a semitic tribe which ruled northern Egypt until their overthrow, were in fact the Hebrews. It’s not an established fact, but I’m not making it up, and it’s hardly anti-semitic. It’s simply questioning the validity of the Bible.
After all, that story of Moses winding up with a Royal Egyptian name because he was sent down river in a basket is a little bit far-fetched.
Dabq
@TANK: Umm, Jews have no proof of anything other than the horrible murders of the Holocaust that came from the same hate you have. You really need some anger management help, this is a message board or a douche to clear your mind of your issues of hate and intolerance.
strumpetwindsock
@strumpetwindsock:
http://history-world.org/hyksos.htm
TANK
There is a theory that the Jews were actually the descendants of the Hyksos Dynasty who ruled northern Egypt, before they git kicked out by the ethnic Egyptians.
And there is no evidence whatsoever that the jews descended from the hyksos, and evidence against it. Josephus is actually the origin of the jewish enslavement story, not the bible.
Dabq
@Lee: Calm down now boo, you aren’t right all the time, and, maybe you need to deal with your issues before petty name calling, I know you are a victim daily and your rights trounced on, but, that’s on you for not being man enough to take charge of your life.
CitizenGeek
@Dabq: But I never, EVER made the point that because some “spokespeople” for the black community are homophobic, that means ALL (or a majority of) blacks are homophobic. Of course not, Julian Bond (NAACP president) and David Patterson (N.Y. gov) are two of the biggest supporters of gay rights and they are both truly, honestly inspirational figures (and not because they’re black!). Al Sharpton is another big supporter, as is Deval Patrick. I admire all of these people, of course, and as such would need employ the logic of “bad spokespeople = bad community” because I don’t, and never have, though that the black community has bad spokespeople!
What I did say was that HIV is much higer among blacks than whites, and inferred that this is clear indicator of a grossly destructive homophobia that is not present in any other community in the U.S.
TANK
@Dabq:
No proof of anything? That’s like saying that black people have no proof of slavery. The first holocaust actually occurred in great britain over a thousand years ago. During the crusades, jews were relentlessly targeted and blamed from the death of jesus. Jews weren’t allowed to own property for much of european history and were restricted to certain professions. If you’d like a lesson on this, you should take a course on the history of antisemitism. Lots of proof.
TANK
Purges of jews have occurred off and on in europe for well over fifteen hundred years. Massacres in france and england, and germany are well documented throughout the middle ages and into the renaissance and beyond.
CitizenGeek
I’d also like to add that this “debate” about who suffered more (Blacks vs. Jews) is rather disturbing. I’m uncomfortable with the implying that black people have a kind of monopoly on historical suffering, too. Many ethnicities have suffered in the past, and it’s never an excuse for homophobia.
Dabq
@TANK: Wow, a civil post that actually is interesting.
Lee
@Dabq:
Thanks for demonstrating the Anal Warts Syndrome—you just keep coming back.
TANK
Josephus is also largely responsible for the historical jesus myth, too…of which there’s very little if any credible evidence.
Dabq
@CitizenGeek: Of course you would be uncomfortable, blacks are the worse things in the world when it comes to your rights, even black gays who you dismiss and could care less about how they are not wanted in the black community and certianly not in the white gay community.
As for those on your list, they are seldom put in a positive light by anyone here, its the same old bashing of anyone with darker skin and how open and fair whites are on gay issues.
Chitown Kev
@TANK:
Tank, enough of THAT. The “antisemetic BLACK,” that is.
TANK
@Chitown Kev:
It’s very true. And this isn’t the first post it has manifested itself. afrolito is a scumbag antisemite.
Dabq
@Lee: I guess that since you must have had them for more than once, you speak from your own experience, eh? But, I guess the free clinic has cleared them up, this time!
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
who’s excusing homophobia? Not me, certainly. Your problem is you are attribuing “black homophobia” solely to reasons intrinsic in “the race and culture” of African Americans to the exclusion of any and all other factors.
The Breakdown
Ok, folks, I’ll spell it out for you.
The reason gays are obsessed with black homophobia (versus, hispanic or women or any other minority) to such a dizzying degree is this…
Whether you want to admit it or not, the African American community holds the key to the stamping of the gay marriage issue as a bonafide CIVIL RIGHTS fight.
yes, we can all say “but it is, no matter what they say” but we all know it will never REALLY take hold, universally, until African Americans “sign off” on it, as a community. Not one or two leaders (thank you Julian Bond) but without the “collective” signing off i.e showing up in mass protest, then it never rises to the seriousness of the original Civil Rights march.
The problem is that many black people (gay and straight) know that many white gays are racist. The exact same argument made to black people (how dare they, they should know better) is never made or expected of white gays, who we ALL know could really give two craps about the plight and struggle of black people.
Once white gays get the “stamp” then they are free to discriminate, pass as straight to get jobs and anything else.
And there you have it.
afrolito
@TANK:
“And this isn’t the first post it has manifested itself. afrolito is a scumbag antisemite.”
Based on what evidence exactly? Of course you won’t find any, since i’m only anti-semitic in that empty head of yours. The evidence of your own racism, is clearly written in each of your own posts. FACT.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
You mean Josephus who lived 1400 years after the Exodus is presumed to have taken place? What do you think he used as his primary source?
You know, if your understanding of your culture is based on your faith in the truth of the Bible I respect that. I am just saying it doesn’t necessarily agree with what many Egyptologists believe.
And again, I am not denying that Jews have suffered greatly through out history
@CitizenGeek:
And FYI I’m not entering the debate of who suffered more (which I agree is silly and insulting). There are plenty of others who could throw their hats in the ring, including the original inhabitants of the new world.
Dabq
@The Breakdown: Well said and 100% truth. That truth that none of these loud, shrill posters want to be man enough to admit.
Chitown Kev
@TANK:
I am not disputing that, I dislike antisemitism myself regardless of the race or culture of the person that practices it (I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you on whether you can ascribe that to afrolito. I don’t know).
TANK
@afrolito:
Based on you defending jesse jackson’s antisemitism, for example. And what motivated this wasn’t your interest in the truth, but once again, promoting the suffering of enslaved black people by engaging in the “who suffered more” game.
Chitown Kev
@The Breakdown:
“holds the key”? Please. If white gays really believe that, they are really going about it in the wrong way.
That marriage equality is an important civil rights issue is without question, no matter what African Americans say or don’t say, period.
Lee
@The Breakdown:
Shouldn’t that be “Had A Breakdown/Never Recovered”?
The judges got together and couldn’t decide who was more shat upon—you or DABQ. So, Oprah spoke to her sponsors, and the manufacturers of Charmin are sending you both a year’s supply.[img]http://www.rosewoodplastic.com/images/tu/BABY%20WIPES.JPG[/img]
strumpetwindsock
@Chitown Kev:
205 and counting… that’s just past double of 102, isn’t it?
TANK
You mean Josephus who lived 1400 years after the Exodus is presumed to have taken place? What do you think he used as his primary source?
Well, according to him it was in records other than the bible.
You know, if your understanding of your culture is based on your faith in the truth of the Bible I respect that. I am just saying it doesn’t necessarily agree with what many Egyptologists believe.
Right, and your previous assertion that sexism didn’t exist based on the presumed “legal equality” of women in ancient egypt is at odds with most egyptologists, too. In fact, it was embarrassing…that you tried to excuse thousands of years of sexist oppression based upon the near legal (not social) equality of women in ancient egypt. Soundly refuted. As to the enslavement, many egyptologists do think that groups of people who were jews, but may not have called themselves jews were enslaved as conquered people. And this is confirmed through sources other than the bible, which is not an historical text.
And again, I am not denying that Jews have suffered greatly through out history
Then tell me, what’s the point of this? If not to minimize it…a good faith correction of someone else’s claim? I don’t think so…not after your assertions about historical sexism and sexism in tribal cultures. It’s an agenda..and it’s a pretty disgusting one.
Dabq
@Lee: Umm, sorry, don’t need them, you must need them to help wipe the hate from your dark heart, but, thanks so much for caring! And, plus, I wouldn’t use them as its obvious they are not Charmin, so back to the .99 cents store for you, get that refund!
The Breakdown
and yet, no explanation why white gays are so obsessed with black homophobia at the expense of all others….and AA make up only, what, 12 percent of the populace?
give me a break….
Chitown Kev
@TANK:
waitminute tank, I remember that comment of afrolito’s
I think what afrolito said was that Jesse Jackson (who I’ve grown to dislike, his wanting to castrate Barack Obama being the final straw, but that’s another issue) has little or no power to actively oppress Jews. I would agree with afrolito on that.
Similariliy, few white gays really have the power to “oppress me” no matter what is said on this blog. White gay racism, after all, does not and is not playing well in the progressive community at large.
TANK
@Chitown Kev:
It was more than that. At first, he stated that jesse’s not an antisemite, whether or not he has the power to back up his antisemitism.
Chitown Kev
@Lee:
LOL
afrolito
@TANK:
“Based on you defending jesse jackson’s antisemitism, for example. And what motivated this wasn’t your interest in the truth, but once again, promoting the suffering of enslaved black people by engaging in the “who suffered more” game.”
That’s it? That’s your evidence? Oy vey!
I did not “defend” his anti-semitism, and you saying it is being dishonest, and you know it. I said his calling jews “hymies” or New York “hymie town”, was not a reflection on the black community at large, but his own private views. He doesn’t speak for black people, beyond the one he sees in the mirror every morning. FACT.
TANK
@afrolito:
Not a reflection of the black community at large? Hey, I’m not calling every black person an antisemite because jesse jackson is one…but you were defending him by stating that he’s now not antisemitic. Based upon…what?
CitizenGeek
When Obama addressed a black church during his campaign, he mentioned that black people had problems with homophobia and anti-semitism. He did not mention this when speaking to white people. I’m sorry if I’ve got this wrong but it seems like black people have a bigger problem with homophobia and anti-semetism – otherwise, can anyone explain Obama’s ideas here?
Chitown Kev
@The Breakdown:
Leaving aside Tank’s and afrolito’s fight, here…
I might concede to you that American gay men (of all colors) may think that they need this stamp of approval from African Americans it just shows that the collective self-esteem of gay men is very low.
(I say men because I can’t imagine women of whatever sexuality ever thinking anything like that).
It’s a American civil rights struggle if we say it is and if the case is made to the community at large. We have that case. There is no need to lean on African Americans so much to get their stamp of approval. The gay community doesn’t need the approval of the African American community; we have our case and we have our issues.The comparisons and analogies will be made of course, we don’t have to force THAT argument, we simply have to make an argument.
Sam (the kid)
It’s interesting that this post got this amount of response while other African related post on queerty gets little to no views and responses at all. America isn’t the most relevant nation when influencing African countries policies. Can anyone put the European Union on line 1, thank you.
Chitown Kev
@CitizenGeek:
Hillary Clinton couldn’t have said that to a black church.
Then again Hillary Clinton didn’t say anything about homophobia in Scranton, PA or West Virginia either.
afrolito
@TANK:
“Not a reflection of the black community at large? Hey, I’m not calling every black person an antisemite because jesse jackson is one…but you were defending him by stating that he’s now not antisemitic. Based upon…what?”
So…because I said I didn’t think he was an anti-semite, that means i’m one? How does that even make logical sense outside of your head? Ridiculousness.
TANK
@afrolito:
Because you don’t think that hymie town reflects antisemitic beliefs. Ergo, you are an antisemite.
TANK
It would be like me believing that referring to parts of harlem as coolie village…and that that isn’t racist. I would be a racist if I so believed…just like you are antisemite.
The Breakdown
@chitown kev
then why all the focus on black homophobia? Surely, women make up half the country, so it would make more sense to refer to the gay marriage struggle as analogous with the Women’s Suffarage movement?
Hispanics are the largest growing minority in the country, surely it would logically make more sense to really target this groups homophobia, yes?
No other group gets targeted by white gays more than black people who make up a relatively small percent of the populace. Care to explain why?
afrolito
@TANK:
But you are a racist, and a pretty dumb one at that.
Me an anti-semite? Hardly, and of course your “evidence” is about as convincing as the story of the exodus.
Better luck next time.
afrolito
@The Breakdown:
He can’t, but he’ll trip over himself making bizarre excuses for the obvious racism in the gay community. So weird…
Bill Perdue
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s): It’s not a personal question, John, except as it relates to a lifetime commitment to fundamental, revolutionary change. Any other use of a life is wasteful.
Change does not come on a schedule we can predict. In the early winter or 1917 as the Russian Revolution geared up Lenin told a Bolshevik Congress that the revolution would not happen in their lifetime. Trotsky thought the same and went to New York to find greener revolutionary pastures.
Change will come at it’s own pace and we’ll know its here when tens of millions of working people spearhead by women, minorities and ourselves undergo a sea change of understanding and conclude that that fight for fundamental change is on the agenda.
In the US over 7,000,000 working people have been fired since last fall and the war Obama promised to end is being escalated. Color Obama Nixon. Color Obama Hoover. His chilling hostility to LGBT folks continues unabated.
Now is not the time for pessimism. Now is the time to organize.
TANK
@afrolito:
No, cunt. If I were to believe that I’d be a racist. You’re an antisemitic pig, and the world would be a better place if you’d just expire you sack of shit. Man, talk about stereotypes of black men…you’re a walking one.
Bill Perdue
@TANK: Another example of your Internet Tourette’s Syndrome?
Yes.
TANK
@afrolito:
You proved that you’re an antisemite, too…by saying you don’t believe hymie town is an antisemitic reference made by jesse jackson. LOL! you’re a piece of trash.
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
You mean where I argued that women actually contributed to the development of civilization and were not simply the powerless possessions of men?
How about if anyone cares they can go read it for themselves rather than you putting words in my mouth?
Just as people can go look for themselves to see if there is any evidence for the enslavement other than the bible.
Chitown Kev
@The Breakdown:
why does any group need to be the target, for that matter?
And targeted for what, the white gay community, by and large, has no power in the big scheme of things.
But I am sensing a game here either where you are 1)a troll seeking to create more tension or 2) an African American claiming the victimhood of the entire “black community” by gay people who are, by and large, just as powerless, really.
I refuse to play it. I don’t think the black community is an innocent victim in all of this by any means. And I have been harmed far more by the homobigotry of the black community (and the white evangelical community) than many of the posters here. So move right along with the victim games, please.
afrolito
@TANK:
So much racist vitriol, when your anti-semite tag flopped hard.
LMFAO!…you never fail to bring the stupidity mixed with unintentional humor!
TANK
@Bill Perdue:
Are you seriously going to read through this pederast’s ravings? Of course, a loon always finds someone who agrees with the rants.
Chitown Kev
@afrolito:
bitch, shut up.
TANK
@afrolito:
It didn’t. I have you dead to rights, crack baby. You’re an antisemite. And the racist vitriol? Not really. The stereotype is that the black community has long been antisemitic and that jesse jackson’s comments just confirmed the status quo. You affirm that stereotype.
Dabq
@CitizenGeek: But, why is this of concern to you? Alleged black homophobia is a big deal, and, yet white gay racism isn’t according to you. That is the most amazing things about this site, people who want to go off on black homophobes, and, yet, gloss over the rest of the population who are as well. At last glance, its white people who make the laws, and, most are smart enough to not put it in the street. Just like with the black church, the preachers are getting money from white evangelicals to spew their hate, and, yet, the white evangelicals get a pass.
Dabq
@Chitown Kev: Well, the main rage of the rage and vitriol here is that HRC isn’t in the WH, and, I wonder if these same bitter, angry posters here would be going off on her if she were dealing with the same issues Obama is? I doubt it they would be squawking give her more time. As I said, the posters here don’t care about how black gay Africans are treated, they don’t care about how black gay ones here are who are on the fringes of two groups.
afrolito
@TANK:
Crack baby? Really? You can at least get try to be clever with your racism. Sighs…
As far as sterotypes go, you’re a case study in poisonous racism, and bigotry. Your continued attempt to tag me as an anti-semite (with no logical case presented) is just sad, and pathetic. Funny as hell though.
BrianZ
Ya’ll sure do a lot of assuming you know what the fuck some group, who you are not a part of, thinks, feels, believes, etc.
OOoo all the gay white racist bitches!
Oooo all the black homophobes!
Oooo you’ll just wanted Hillary so you’re hating on Bo!
Get the fuck over yourselves. Really. You represent the WORST of each of your respective classes, races and belief systems. Ya’ll remind me daily that I’d be a bitch-slapping mother fucker if I knew half of you in person.
afrolito
@Dabq:
If HRC were in the White House, she would be given a berth as wide as her ass by the gay community. Many of her supporters (sychophants) will NEVER get over her loss to Barack Obama in the primaries. No one in their right mind would expect her or any other newly elected president to concentrate on gay issues the first 100 days in office, especially given all of the major problems facing this country economically at the moment.
These people and their irrational Obama hate are INSANE.
Lee
@afrolito:
No, Mongoloida, the issue is that none of you Anuses for Obama have a response to the message that he has broken his promises to LGBTs so you want to kill the messengers.
I can actually imagine Obama changing, but I can’t imagine any of you being any less dishonest and retarded, particularly those like you whose entire deck is stacked with race cards, and rather than being thrown under have volunteered to crawl under Obama’s bus.
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02ed1V18Jk210/610x.jpg[/img]
Chitown Kev
@Dabq:
They would be going off on Hillary, too. I’ve seen some of the old HRC comments here on queerty. She’d be all different types of bitches, I am sure.
@TANK: Crack baby! LOL! I agree with afrolito, you simply MUST do better than that. Get it ALL out of your system, now.
Chitown Kev
@BrianZ:
that’s been the sanest comment (other than mine, I think) in the past 50 or so posts. And even though afrolito and I don’t agree on much of anything really (so much for the idea that all black people are the same) I am not about to let Tank call him a “crack baby.”
TANK
@afrolito:
SO that’s racism now, too? LOL! You’re an antisemitic bigot. You could at least have just been honest in the beginning instead of this protracted little show culminating in the proof of your bigotry.
The Breakdown
@chitown kev
I wasn’t saying any group should be targeted. Exactly the opposite of my point. I was explaining why the gay community is so narrowly focused on black homophobia.
If you search for “hispanic homophobia” or “women homophobia” on any gay site, you’ll hardly get a hit. Search black and homophobia and it’s a landslide.
Why?
You personal experiences are all well and good, but they really are not the issue.
You can call me all the names you want, but by simply refusing to addresss the issue tells me that you likely don’t want to think about it on a serious level. I’m not asking you to solve the problem but to act like African Americans are not targeted for their supposed inordinate homophobia more than ANY other minority group despite their small population without simply asking why, and then, name-calling those who do is more telling about you.
It’s one thing to want to be part of the gay community, but don’t ignore the obvious just because you want to fit in with white gays, Chitown. Seriously.
TANK
Nah, I think it’s true. He’s a primitive little bigot and exposing him for it does how black people are perceived on this site, anyway…a service…given the prevalence of the belief that the black community is pretty antisemitic.
Mick
TOP 11 THINGS I’ve learned from viewing this page.
11. Comment thread are apotheosis of internet anonymity, misinformed thoughts and bellicose rants.
10. Jeese Jackson is the queen of all black people…Bill Clinton his the king.
9. White folks who visit queerty are racist.
8. Black folks who visit queerty are homophobes.
7. All the folks that no media really care about are reading this page with a bowl of popcorn and enjoying themselves.
6. Sarah Palin can see Africa from the “president is a homophobe train”.
5. Afrolito and TANK are getting married in Massachusetts on may 25th.
4. It’s “us” vs “them”! Change is cumming…I meant coming…wait who is “us”?
3. Obama is the biggest homophobe in the Obama administration.
2. People here really care about their gay African fellows.
1. Carrie Prejean is so happy everyone is starting to forget about her…or him,:P
TANK
@afrolito:
Attempt to tag you?
“So…because I said I didn’t think he was an anti-semite [for referring to jews as hymies and new york as hymietown], that means i’m one? How does that even make logical sense outside of your head? Ridiculousness.”
So you don’t think using antisemitic slurs makes one an antisemite…I think I more than attempted to tag you as an antisemite, I proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Landon Bryce
@afrolito:
The article that started this thread is irrational Obama hate, and clearly designed to inflame anger about race. Your anger about it is understandable and fair.
Personally, I would be angrier with HRC if her performance on gay issues were as poor as Obama’s has been to this point because she has more experience with gay issues on the national stage and is less deserving of the benefit of the doubt. I know there are commenters here who are so delusional that they wish HRC were president. That’s sad and just as crazy as you say it is.
It’s even crazier than defending Obama as he backpedals on campaign promises. Or claiming that a president at the height of his popularity could do nothing more than Obama has.
Mick
@TANK: Seriously, when are you two adopting you’re Romanian baby?
afrolito
@TANK:
LMFAO @ your continued inablity to bring ANYTHINg other than your own twisted racism and endless wealth of stupidity.
And your little anti-semitic missives continue to BOMB.
LMFAO!
Luis
@Landon Bryce: I want my porn Landon!
Chitown Kev
@The Breakdown:
maybe it’s because I have absolutely no desire to defend “black homophobia” (and there is such a thing) or “the black community” on any level (though the issue in a black cultural context is much larger than homophobia, it’s has more to do with xenophobia). I really don’t.
It doesn’t mean that I condone the racism on this site and on this particular thread by any means.
I condone neither one and I don’t have not much of a desire to fit into any “community” (black or gay or black gay) than the community I choose.
TANK
@afrolito:
And the funny thing is if I had defended that racist rush limbaugh for continually referring to obama as the magical negro, this antisemite would have been all that calling me a racist…apparently, afrolito believes jesse can’t be an antijewish bigot because of what, exactly? So when a black man uses slurs against jews, it’s not antisemitism according to afrolito…then again, this is the same douchetard who stated that gay rights don’t matter.
afrolito
@Mick:
Eww. I would NEVER co-parent with a sub-species…and judging by his posts, he’s probably fug, old, and has a small prick. No thanks.
Chitown Kev
@Landon Bryce:
I guess the hard working white people didn’t work hard enough!
afrolito
@TANK:
Spitting in the wind, and still no one to board the bus. LMFAO!
TANK
Eww. I would NEVER co-parent with a sub-species
More antisemitism… HATE CRIME!
TANK
@afrolito:
Which part?
Chitown Kev
@Chitown Kev:
and I do love Hillary Clinton but I have never been able to quite get past that “hard working white working class voters” comment (to be precise)
Chitown Kev
@afrolito:
@TANK:
I now declare you…husband and husband.
The Breakdown
@chitown kev
lol. You will discuss everything but the point I was making.
I won’t state it again because I suspect you will just call names or make it all about you again to hide the fact that you don’t have an answer.
Luis
@Chitown Kev: Maybe I’ve just read wrong, but why would you not, whether it may be on this site in particular, condone racism?
TANK
@Chitown Kev:
So who got me that rape whistle as an engagement gift?
afrolito
@TANK:
Fucking you would be a hate crime….against HUMANITY. Ewww
LMFAO
afrolito
@Luis:
You read it wrong. He he said he doesn’t condone racism on this site or this particular thread.
Chitown Kev
@The Breakdown:
I simply don’t see a victimless crime being perpetrated against the homophobic black community, that’s all.
If many sectors of the black community don’t give a goddamn about black gays and lesbians (and they don’t they proved that in the 1980’s with the AIDS crisis) what makes white gay folks think that they black community is going to give a good goddamn about them? Why are they seeking their approval when I know for a fat thatit’s not forthcoming, by and large?
No need to get racist and all but…
michael
@afrolito: The evidence for your bigotry is spiritual. You only hate in another what you hate in yourself. When you point your finger at someone for something, you are pointing 2 fingers back at yourself. God forbid anyone is going to challenge you on whose the biggest victim. Being a victim is completely infused in your identity and sense of self. Take that away and you would have to be responsible for your own life, and that is something your never going to let happen. You love posting your Hitler type comments but when someone does it to you we get to hear your version of a past that allows you to stay stuck, angry and maintain a false sense of being holy, righteous and good. You decide who you are and what you are, nobody else is responsible for that but you. In the end all of your relentless blame gaming and refusal to let go of the past and take charge of your life hurts only you. Everyone else that you pull your crap with has forgotten about your existence 5 minutes after they are off these comment threads. So cut the grandiosity cause it is not working.
The Breakdown
@chitown kev
blah, blah, blah.
Why is the topic of black homophobia so prevalent on white gay sites when black people are 12 percent of the population?
Why the focus on black voting during Prop 8 when they were less than 10 percent of the voting bloc?
Why the constant analogy to the Civil Rights march versus other civil rights struggles?
I’m sure you will post a diatribe of “stuff” (blah blah) but I’ll wager no real answers.
It really doesn’t matter anymore. I have all the answer I need.
later.
afrolito
@michael:
Oh puleeze. You wrote a run-on paragragh about my “spiritual bigitry” (that’s a new one!), and you’ve come to the incredible conclusion that i’m a wacko with identity issues? LMFAO @ your psych 101 community college babble. You have no idea who I am, and no nothing of me, beyond what I post here…..and even that should be suspect to someone with half a brain.
My “grandiosity” is clearly not forgotten by you, who took more than 5 minutes to cull together that uninspired drivel.
Think harder the next time. Lol!
Luis
@The Breakdown: Because it creates traffic, traffic attracts publicity and publicity brings in money…race batting 101? Not quite, but it’s still weird that in this so called “post-racial age” that the issue of race, present but not prevalent, would have been so easily skinned up in this thread.
Landon Bryce
@Chitown Kev: The hardworking white people NEVER work hard enough. They are the little engine that couldn’t, the failed Democrat Socialist party of the past. How I hate the hardworking white people and all of their little dogs.
And, Luis, it’s all there for you.
troy
@afrolito: Got that little antisemitic jab in their didn’t you. Your so fucking stupid and your brain suffers from such a bad case of the runs that you probably don’t even notice the way you put things. You are probably the most bigoted, racist individual I have ever seen on this site. Somehow you have convinced yourself that you can use the stuff that happened to your forefathers as a pass to say whatever bullshit you want about another group of people. Your immature, full of hate and full of shit. Your a racist, FACT!
(now watch afrolito’s head explode)
strumpetwindsock
Wow…
Gee, things got lively in here while I was away.
@The Breakdown:
Actually I don’t get the logic behind your thesis (back at #199, wasn’t it?).
Since when has the dominant culture ever cared enough about what any minority group thinks… let alone held back from doing whatever the hell it wants?
After all, a good portion of the whites probably don’t think they need anyone’s permission since they feel they’re the real victims anyway.
So no, I don’t think anyone is waiting to be handed any holy mantle of civil rights so everything can magically fall into place.
I think the focus on other people is just a plain old case of looking to see how bad things are in your neighbour’s yard so you don’t have to think about your own… plus a dash of “who’s the bigger villain and the bigger victim” just so we make sure we can rationalize things.
afrolito
@troy:
What anti-semitic jab?
You’re a stalker troll. FACT…LMFAO!
TANK
@afrolito:
Go be fat and stupid somewhere else, antisemite. The only rhetorical device you’ve got at your feeble minded disposal is the race card. Tell me, how well has it served you playing it into the ground? And then, you confirm the bigoted stereotypes with your jew baiting and hating. It’s so sad…that’s enough grape soda for you, mister!
michael
@afrolito: I knew you would not get what I said, but everyone else does. People on here need to stop providing you a playground to play out your “I will provoke you into hating me so that you will notice me because I am so damaged and in need of being seen that I love to come on sites like this”. Then you leave thinking that you are important and that you matter. Thats why we see you here doing the same crap over and over and over. But you don’t leave here being seen, not any more here than you ever have anywhere else in your life. Your just a wounded, grandiose, little whatever you are that has acquired a smart ass attitude, a “I know everything” belief about yourself and a rage that you love to take out to other men such as here on Queerty and project. Oh believe me, I know you much better than you think I do, you would be shocked shitless if you knew how. I know you much better than you know yourself.
Luis
@TANK: I don’t think that answering bigotry and racism with bigotry and racism is appropriate…even when you’re arguing with your husband…grape juice? I first heard about this one yesterday. I guess the reason I don’t know a lot of stereotypes it’s because most of the time they’re not true or simply completely irrelevant.
TANK
@Luis:
Free mumia!
Chitown Kev
@strumpetwindsock:
again, it’s not as if self-identified GAY men (of whatever color) have much power in this society anyway, political or otherwise.
Or rather, twe have more power than we realize. But we are so undisciplined in the use of that power. Now we are that it takes more than mere access to push through our agenda.
afrolito
@michael:
Really? No one else seems to have gotten anything hon, except you and your alter ego TANK. LMFAO!
You’ve brought NOTHING
Proven NOTHING
Shown NOTHING
FLOP! LMFAO!
getreal
@Luis: I agree when someone has to get nasty and personal during a discussion of views it is usually is an indication that they are not very secure in their views. An adult should be able to have a debate with a cool head without always resorting to childish name calling and bickering.
TANK
@afrolito:
Calm down, honey. You’re embarrassing me in front of the guests.
TANK
Someone get afrolito a slimfast and a fan…
afrolito
@TANK:
What jew baiting and hating?? It would be so awesome if you could actually prove yoour moronic anti-semite charges. Just making it up and saying it over and over is just sad and pathetic. No one is buying it, since it’s all in your head, and nowhere in this thread. LMFAO!
Of course your own racism and bigotry is amply displayed for all to see. Continue on though.
TANK
@getreal:
Oh, I’m pretty secure in asserting afrolame’s antisemitism. I proved it. Consider that a little taste of his own medicine.
afrolito
@TANK:
So says the small dicked old fuck outposting me 2-1….
LMFAO!
TANK
You’re probably older than me, douchenozzle. As to the other charge, well, if that’s an overture, I’m not biting. Get your filthy paws off of my junk, and stop thinking about it so much…it’s disturbing…he’s upset, afroflamer.
Bill Perdue
@Luis: I agree. Here are two examples by getsevebnwithgaymen. They’re disgusting.
http://www.queerty.com/morning-goods-colter-johnson-20090203/ Go to comment 7 where she baits tallskin, accusing him of being a pederast.
http://www.queerty.com/michael-lucas-takes-on-black-porn-stars-not-in-that-way-20090327/ Go down to comment 254. This is getsevenwithblackgaymen commenting on the plot of AA gay men to spread HIV/AIDs. It’s pretty sick stuff. You can tell from her comments that she’s not very successful at either converting or seducing gay men to her sick christer lifestyle.
TANK
@Bill Perdue:
You’re pathetic, bill.
afrolito
@TANK:
I’m 25. Judging by the vitriol of your racism (and lame jabs), i’d say you were decidedly OLD SCHOOL, which is sad, because all you have left is hate. So sad….LOL!
getreal
Bill Perdue you are sad. You make up stories and post links that invalidate your own lies. You do it for attention and to derail threads with your racist agenda.
strumpetwindsock
@Chitown Kev:
Yeah, I know.
I was confused because he talked about it not taking hold “universally” before the black community (again, whatever that means) blesses it.
That sounds to me like he was talking about a shift in our entire society, not just the GLBT community.
I’m just not clear what he means, or how he comes up with it.
TANK
@afrolito:
TMI, loser. TMI. Your transparent antisemitism is what’s fueling this. You’re a self loathing gay man who hates jews and is black… Once again, the stereotype that the black community is rife with antisemitism is borne out in your virulent bigotry.
TANK
old school? That’s a movie… The term old school is itself…quite played…
Landon Bryce
@TANK:
Did you intend this to be a paraphrase of “Boys in the Band”?
“You’re a sad and pathetic man, Michael. You’re a homosexual and you don’t want to be.”
Sad, sad, sad.
Chitown Kev
@strumpetwindsock:
Yeah, it read more like a troll post to me. Although I would allow for the fact that maybe American whte gays MIGHT just think that because of their own low self-esteem. But if the narrative is valid (and it is, IMHO) than the support from enough corners of whatever community will come. Can’t do it by hiding in the closet (as No On 8 did). The closet has its’ securities, to be sure, but it can also block the sunshine.
afrolito
@TANK:
And once again you bring NOTHING to back up ANY of your ridiculous claims of my anti-semitism. You truly are a nut….tireless in your moronic crusade to flame me, all the while revealing your own racism in every post.
LOL!
getreal
@TANK: @afrolito: Let’s just debate the issue why get so personal?
TANK
@afrolito:
“So…because I said I didn’t think he was an anti-semite [for referring to jews as hymies and new york as hymietown], that means i’m one? How does that even make logical sense outside of your head? Ridiculousness.”
So you don’t think using antisemitic slurs makes one an antisemite…I think I more than attempted to tag you as an antisemite, I proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Yeah…ridiculous…using your own words to prove my case for me.
Bill Perdue
@getreal: aka getsevenwithgaymen those links definitely prove that you’re a bigot.
You have no links or quotes or proof backing your christer lies that I’m a pederast, an anti-Semite or a racist. People like you and Tankie defend your sewer politics with sewer allegations way too often for anyone to consider either of you as anything but jokes.
Your conversion/seductin campaign isn’t going to work, church lady. Get used to it. Go preach somewhere else.
TANK
@getreal:
There’s no issue to debate. Homophobia in africa? It exists. 2/3rds of african nations have laws which explicitly make same sex sexual activity illegal.
Will obama address it? Of course he “should”…he should also address many other atrocities that occur within africa, too.
getreal
I for one am saddened that this administration is dragging it’s feet on lgbt equality. The part of Africa where our President is traveling is one of the most homophobic regions in the world and I pray he makes some statement about the human right crisis that women and lgbt people find themselves in. The level of violence and unjust laws in these countries is astounding and I think before we even entertain any talk of forgiving debt we need leaders to put a stop of the persecution of lgbt people and young women.
LOL
2/3rds of african nations have laws which explicitly make same sex sexual activity illegal.
so do 2/3 of the states in the U.S.
afrolito
@TANK:
And you still haven’t proven i’m an anti-semite. Lol!
You’re basing your ridiculous charge on my not agreeing that Jesse Jackson is anti-semitic??….That’s all kinds of crazy to anyone with a logical brain.
Not only are you delusional, but you’re a CLASS A NUT.
Crazy racist twat. LMFAO!
getreal
I can say that the moment I identified as a black person I became a target of Bill Perdue. He also hates me because I’m straight even though I’m a gay rights activist. Other posters are starting to address it. His only defense seems to be that Anderson is a straight christian when every poster here knows he is not. My question is even if he was why does that make hating him okay? This guy is worse than a klansman. He claims to hate racist but once I identified as black he attacked me unprovoked for months he posted a lot innocuous threads in an attempt to get other people to attack me it never worked. The fact is gay and gay friendly people are not as likely to be racist and jew hating like Mr.Perdue. I would confront any poster who tried to rationalize it. I don’t think Bill knows it is wrong and makes him look bad defending the sexual exploitation of kids wherever they live. The fact is Bill Perdue is just an angry old lonely guy with no man, no life, who does nothing for the movement. He never even has any opinions on issues he just pick a few posters to lie about to take his mind off the fact that his ideas of the world are about 40 years out of date. He is a loser. He does nothing for the movement he has spent his life being angry and mean now he is just a lonely old guy with no man and no friends. Everyone see Bill as a cautionary tale.
afrolito
@getreal:
“Let’s just debate the issue why get so personal?”
He started it first. Lol!
Despite our tumultuous past, I feel you and I can turn a corner though.
TANK
@LOL:
Even if that were true (which it isn’t re: lawrence v. texas) are you proposing an equivalence between the way gays are treated overall (not in one country like south africa, but overall and on average) in africa and in the united states? Do you? Prove it, dipshit.
strumpetwindsock
@Chitown Kev:
Yeah, it’s hard to discern who is a troll sometimes given what passes as normal discussion in here.
And regarding your second point, I think there is a good contingent of reasonable, and moral people out there even among the communities that oppose us. public opinion has always changed with every social revolution, from women’s suffrage to civil rights.
But they’re not likely to see the error of their ways if we refuse to meet them face to face.
TANK
@afrolito:
Of course I have. I used your own words to indict you. You’re an antisemitic moron…and it’s really unfortunate given how quick you are to accuse anyone and everyone who disagrees with you of being a racist.
getreal
@TANK:”There’s no issue to debate”
My point was unless you are a mouth foaming lunatic like Bill Perude you should be able to address other posters on the thread without the constant histrionics and still stay on topic.
marcus
Afrolito is hilarious, a joke, he’s been commenting on Queerty for ages, its always the same ole thing. He imagines somebody saying something thats racist so he goes off like fat woman whose had her doughnut ripped from her clutched fist. He’s tired, he (or she) is boring and its like a fucking OCD loop. Anyway, we don’t have time for all this race crap. So blacks are homophobes, big fucking deal, I don’t see myself moving to Detroit anytime soon anyway and gays are racist, big fucking deal, there aren’t enough blacks who will ever come out to have to deal with any unless you spend a lot of time at drag pageants. So lets go and fight for rights as gay people and let this race shit go, there are other groups that can deal with that shit anyway.
LOL
@tank
The point, asshat, was to draw attention to your constant racist efforts to attack all things black/african while ignoring the obvious problem in your own lily-white-it-must-be-right country.
Douche.
afrolito
@TANK:
Still NOTHING.
Sad and tragic really. LOL!
TANK
@LOL:
What constant effort? If that was your point, you’ve failed miserably lex or afrolito or whatever nick you’re using now. Who’s ignoring the problems in the united states? ha ha ha, you’re crackers.
TANK
@afrolito:
More denial from jasmyne cannick, jr. Look, you think it’s perfectly okay to use antisemitic slurs against jews and not be an antisemite…that’s your double standard. I think you’re a despicable cunt…I don’t think I’m alone in that, either.
getreal
When did queerty stop being people debating what’s going on in the equality movement and started being a few mean people taking out their own feelings of anger on other posters?
afrolito
@TANK:
And you’re a racist delusional old fuck, and I don’t think we need a straw poll to confirm that withy quite a few here. FACT.
LOL!
Chitown Kev
316 posts.
And a real honest to good gay marriage all on this thread, just today, brought to you by Queerty
Landon Bryce
@getreal: When you started paying attention?
TANK
@afrolito:
Calm down, afrolamer. It’s really annoying when you start to misspell things because you’re so enraged at being proven a bigoted idiot that you can’t even press the keys properly to deny it while issuing another uninspired tired line of invective. Just die.
getreal
@Landon Bryce: There are just some really interesting posts here but the bickering shuts them down. I mean getting different perspectives on issues is interesting but going back and forth with a poster you hate unless you are defending yourself seems like a waste of time and energy.
Chitown Kev
@getreal:
eh, at some point I just sit back and enjoy all the drama.
troy
@TANK: No, your not the only one that can see that. I count at least 29. Fact.
TANK
Grammar wiz agrees with me. I win.
getreal
@Chitown Kev: I think I should try it your way.
hardmannyc
Yay, Bill Purdue is back from his “family crisis” (another visit to Betty Ford, Bill?). Always good for a laugh.
lev
:(and that whole “being black” thing),
Nothing short of distasteful. When a European American president goes to Europe is there a whole “white thing going” on? Roping in blacks as homophobic is ridiculous, in my conservative Texas high school when a white kid was rumored as gay and was being chastised, a group of African American basketball players stepped in and stood up for him. The negative stigma and vitriolic speech does nothing more than alienate African Americans allies that care deeply about all gay people, and delivers a stab in the back to African American homosexuals. The media and sites like this are just fueling a stereotype that African Americans are homophobic when in actuality in their hearts they care deeply about anyone who is discriminated against. Just because a few vociferous pastors are foaming at the mouth does not mean they represent the thoughts of everyday people. The only people that these skirmishes serve is bigoted hate filled anti-gay individuals who want to drive a wedge between African Americans and gays as they attempted to do with African Americans and Jews in order to derail the civil rights train. Nothing serves better to hinder progress than creating a battle that has nothing to do with advancing the civil rights cause. Don’t take your eye of the prize: Instead of pointing fingers at a race that has had no control over the power structures of America and the situations that gays have endured, there should be outreach because together both groups can work together to advance justice and morality. As for Obama, have a little faith I think in the long run your going to find him to be the most pro gay president in history. Vilifying him will not motivate him into action; showing him that gays support him and want him to succeed will be a motivator to make him want to fight for gay people.
mb00
Who’s running this website now, those Log Cabin people?
In all seriousness though, I do feel like Obama took us for a ride. Took our money and our votes and then kicked us to the curb like most of the defendants you see on Judge Judy. I’m starting to feel like a jilted lover and Obama isn’t calling me back.
getreal
@hardmannyc: I respectfully disagree you are way funny. He (Bill Perdunothing) is just pathetic.
Lex
@lev: Only good comment in this whole thread.
Chitown Kev
@lev:
Damn good post.
Dabq
@getreal: One would think they could be adult, but, the posters here have two things in their arsenal name calling and racial slurs, nothing else when called out for their intolerance, which is a hoot to read!
Dabq
@lev: The best post of this thread, shame the down trodden, bitter posters here won’t get it, since Obama owes them freedom from the shackles of injustice they suffer daily and black people should understand the pain they have to endure the second they walk out the door, they owe them empathy for the sturggle, LOL!
marcus
@michael: You size him up pretty good. He’s always on these threads crying about what others are “doing to him”, then after about 25 or 30 posts from others calling him on his shit he says things like “I’m done with this site” or “I’m not coming back here”. But like a dog returning to its own vomit he does. He’s like a vampire who sucks energy from the negativity he creates. Maybe its all the human interaction the ole queen ever gets.
Charles
Uhh… question…. ummmmm… yeah……what does Obama visiting Africa have ANYTHING to do with GLBT politics in the US. I mean seriously…. there is ABSO-FRICKEN-LUTELY not correlation here… at all…. they’re two totally different agendas… two words….. shut up…. and a few more… You’re making us gays look bad…kthnx & bye.
Bill Perdue
@getreal: @getreal: @getreal: see numnber 289 for absoolute proof of her disgusting bigotry. Getsevenwithgaymen is a homophobe who won’t admit her hatred of gay men.
@getreal: When did queerty stop being people debating what’s going on in the equality movement and started being a few mean people taking out their own feelings of anger on other posters? As soon as you an d tankie @getreal: showed up.
Bill Perdue
@hardmannyc: is an over the hill steroid abuser and air head whose comments include repeated
calls for mass murder and denying that zionists engage in a cruel form or apartheid and practice ethnic cleansing against Palestinians. Like tankie and getsevenwithgaymen he invents lies about those who think he’s a very sick bigot.
He once used the screen name hellskitchenguy guy (he admit’s it) but was forced to change it because of this racist garbage:
http://www.queerty.com/iran-executes-once-stayed-gay-20071205/#comments