“Gay marriage lawsuit finds little support.” “Marriage suit vexes gay-rights activists.” Those are just two headlines out of Wyoming regarding David Shupe-Roderick and Ryan Dupree’s federal lawsuit challenging the state’s ban on same-sex marriage. We’ve already pointed out the utter foolishness in these two twenty-year-olds representing themselves in court, but even LGBT groups aren’t impressed.
Tim Reid, a board member at Wyoming Equality says, “We don’t support this argument at this time” and that the lawsuit is “ill-conceived.” The duo “could not have picked a worse time to pick this up.” The organization says it was blindsided by the lawsuit, as in the plaintiffs didn’t alert the state’s gay leaders, and this makes them feel sad. And Bob Warburton, acting president of the Wyoming Stonewall Democrats, says the lawsuit was concocted as a “sideshow.” (Warburton also, apparently contracting himself, says the suit is “great news. These two people obviously are in love and would like to be married. And I think they’ll get farther in the courts then they probably would in the Legislature.”)
Heh. Sort of reminds me of the time much of Gay Inc. was bashing the federal Perry v. Schwarzenegger lawsuit. Until they weren’t.
But what’s everyone worried about?
How about we take this to the next level?
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For one thing, there’s a dispute over the basic facts of the case. In the suit, Shupe-Roderick and Dupree allege that they went to the Laramie County Clerk’s office on Aug. 9 to apply for a marriage license, only to be turned down because they were a same-sex couple. In a subsequent media interview, Shupe-Roderick said they went to the clerk’s office two additional times and spoke with Laramie County Clerk Debbie Lathrop. However, Lathrop, a defendant in the lawsuit, said neither she nor any of her staff has any recollection of the couple applying for a marriage license from her office. “I know for a fact that I have never spoken with either one of them,” she said.
Oh, and:
But even if Shupe-Roderick and Dupree do win their lawsuit, it probably won’t mean much. That’s because another, much more high-profile lawsuit against California’s Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage is already farther along in the federal court system. Several activists said they expected the Prop 8 lawsuit to eventually be taken up by the U.S. Supreme Court within a couple of years. And the court’s ruling, they said, would make any ruling in the Wyoming lawsuit moot.
And then there’s the small matter of these two not exactly being the best poster boys for the marriage debate.
Gay-rights proponents are also concerned that the plaintiffs aren’t exactly a poster couple for their cause – especially Shupe-Roderick, a convicted felon with a history of mental illness. Shupe-Roderick, 25, served 4 years in the Wyoming State Penitentiary after he, his brother, and their two girlfriends left Cheyenne in a rental car in January 2004. When they didn’t return the rental car on time, the rental company contacted police. Two days later, Shupe-Roderick – then known as Gerald Shupe — was arrested in Arkansas after being pulled over for an illegal lane change.
After being sentenced, Shupe-Roderick unsuccessfully requested a reduction in his prison sentence on the grounds that he had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and wasn’t taking his prescribed medication when he took the rental car. Shupe-Roderick is currently being prosecuted for falsifying state documents. Last October, he applied to become a notary public, and he allegedly certified on his application form that he wasn’t a convicted felon. The lawsuit also alleges Shupe-Roderick used a fake same-sex union certificate from Massachusetts to obtain a Wyoming driver’s license.
Shupe-Roderick has also been a plaintiff in court as frequently as he has been a defendant. Besides the gay marriage case, he’s filed five other lawsuits in the past three years. In one, he accused prison guards of sexual misconduct, and in another, he accused a would-be business client of assault and breach of contract. He has also sought $16,398 in loans and debts from his former employers/roommates and asserted that Bank of America unlawfully refused to release $5,107 from his bank account. All of those cases were eventually dropped or dismissed.
But here’s where I’ve got little sympathy for this pair’s critics. The state’s gay rights leaders insist their strategy of reaching out to lawmakers is the proper way to go. Because it’s worked so well for them. Although last year’s constitutional DOMA failed in the House by a 35-25 vote, it was lawmakers who enacted the state law defining marriage as between a man and a woman. And there’s another Defense of Marriage act coming before the legislature early next year.
Wyoming Equality’s Reid thinks there will be political backlash suffered because the the suit. Maybe! There could also be an unexpected positive outcome. But: Doubtful!
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
Unfortunately I gots to side with the Wyoming Gay orgs. This particular couple may actually damage the cause. Believe it or not lawmakers take a good look at just who is the lead in these cases. If you had a stable pair who were in a long term relationship, solid citizens they are more likely to either support or not be so vocal in their dissent of the proposed legislation. (Pleeeze don’t be hating on me for stating that, its simply the way things work. Always has been, always will…)
The fact that these guys definatley don’t give anyone the warm and fuzzies is going to hamper their and the Gay community at large’s case……
Patrick
I’ll be frank, this article and its precursor bother me. You’ll write about the HRC utterly failing us, but when other organizations use the same strategies, you’re missing it?? I realize it’s nearly impossible to be in the queer rights movement without some degree of idealism, so maybe I’m embracing that side too much, but it seems to me, their state gay organizations should stop being so offended they were sidestepped and make up for the distance by supporting the two. Having a “poster child for equality” whatever that means (apparently not having a mental illness or criminal background…I forgot, we’re all saints from non-abusive backgrounds) implies that some of us don’t deserve equal marriage. The argument for/against our equality should be separate from our mental health and criminal history–that’s leftover from when psychiatry and the police actively considered us hostile…like a couple decades ago. Also, I wish the organizations with these critical comments about the couple would recognize their own deficiency in informing their community (since evidently they’re being “blindsided” by the same people they’re “reaching out to lawmakers” on behalf of). Lastly, representing themselves in court–is this indicative of economic status, and if so, is that another reason their state “LGBT groups” aren’t expressing solidarity with their ambitions?
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@Patrick: Problem is that as in post above yours, all that shit does matter. Straights are not exactaly going out of their way to embrace Gays getting hitched. There are vile dispicable persons, organizations, religions who go to insane legnths to oppose Gay marriage or rights. And they are going to latch on to the tons of baggage this couple bring to the table to further the assinie notion that we are all deviant, sick, persons who should be relegated to second class citizenship………
Lanjier
If someone has a valid legal claim, and these guys do, they are entitled to a day in court and don’t have to clear their lawsuit with anybody.
Why haven’t the activists brought their own lawsuit, if “lesser” lawsuits were a concern of theirs? or why not help these two get lawyers to represent them?
It is a good example of attorneys who are supposed to be FIGHTING for the gay public’s interest, being elitist bums. They want to take in their salaries, zip around to meetings and coffee shops, and do NOTHING for the gay public until the “time is right.” They want the weather to be so perfect, all they have to do is show up. Olson and Boise didn’t do that, the picked up their baseball bats and started swings for gay people in California.
But it is like a good warrior says, “there’s no time like the present.”
I can’t stand these lawyers who are afraid of going to court, waiting decades to actually do something while gay couples suffer. That “time must be right” is for pussies, and we pay the price.
DR
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS:
That’s utter bull. NOTHING in this article would be admissible in Court in a Prop 8-eque proceeding, except if it’s true the couple didn’t try to obtain a license through the proper channels. The rest is character assassination, so ably done by supposedly-GLBT-friendly media outlets. How nice to see how our young get eaten alive.
This is so typical of the Democrats and the left in general. They always expect us to “wait for the right time”, or “find the most glamorous couple” to throw in the courtroom. In the meantime, while waiting for the squeaky-clean perfect couple, 40 states have outlawed SSM. How long are we supposed to sit on our hands and wait? Until Prop 8 makes it to the USSCt? Let me let you in on a little secret people don’t seem to grasp:
There is NO guarantee that the Prop 8 appeal will result in a nationwide holding; it’s just as likely that the Court will say the holding only applies to California, which means the rest of us are still without full marriage equality. Which means that GLBT legal groups need to start mounting as many challenges as possible around the country. Which they don’t want to do.
Well, I don’t want to give them my money then, if they can’t find their spines.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@DR: Read my two previous posts. The persons who are the lead in any case are scrutinized and a decision is made to support, oppose, or simply keep your mouth shut based on how your constituants are going to view the faces of the case. I am sorry these guys are not good faces to portray a typical Gay couple. The rightwing lunatics are going to seize the numerous issues these guys bring to the table and spew and slant the argument that all Gays are sleazy charlatans who manipulate and break the law and cannot be trusted. Read the info above about these guys I personally do not want them to be the face a very important Gay rights issue. Why would you not want to give the freaking measure the best chance possible to succeed???? I am sick of having the rightwing scumbags insuinuate that we are all deviant child rapists. Any freaking thing they can grab onto to show “what bad people the Gays are” they will and do so, with a vengence……….
Please take off the freaking rose colored glasses and realize there is a game and we unfortunatly have to play it.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
In addition to the items relating to Shupe-Roderick above, here is additional baggage he brings to the case………..
Shupe-Roderick has also been a plaintiff in court as frequently as he has been a defendant. Besides the gay marriage case, he’s filed five other lawsuits in the past three years, from accusing prison guards of sexual misconduct and accusing a would-be business client of assault and breach of contract to seeking $16,398 in loans and debts from his former employers/roommates and asserting that Bank of America unlawfully refused to release $5,107 from his bank account. All of those cases were eventually dropped or dismissed.
A fifth case is currently pending in federal court in which Shupe-Roderick is suing “Wyoming Child Support Services” – an apparent reference to the Wyoming Department of Family Services – for allegedly intercepting a $643 federal tax refund.
Why in the world would anyone wish to have this person be the face of an important legal battle for our rights?????????
CJ
If you advocate that these boys should “shut up” or that their backgrounds and poverty should deny them their day in court, I guess that you’d say the same thing about blacks and women when someone tries to deny them equality and civil rights? Or, are you really just really comfortable with ongoing discrimination against gays?
Equality and civil rights shouldn’t be given only to those who have good attorneys, a perfect background or money.
Let these guys pursue their case. As others have said, continued silence is too often what people advocate. Rosa Parks could have just shut up and taken her seat on the bus. But, she didn’t. Sometimes its the person with no name that makes history.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@CJ: Are you freaking kidding me?????????? Stop the PC fucking bullshit!! This guy is a freaking scam artist. He tries to game the legal system for financial gain. Its not because of “background” or “poverty” or even that he is Gay. He has been charged with filing false documents, stealing money, intercepting (stealing) an income tax check and basically scam his way thru life since he became an adult……
Rosa Parks didn’t shut up and took her seat on the bus. What made her case so damm strong was that she actually paid for that seat………
DR
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS:
Clearly you don’t know nearly as much as you like to think about the law, and would rather buy into the character assassination letzgetreal is engaging in than helping our community actually accomplish something worthwhile. As I said on the other thread, that makes you and your ilk the real kapos and qusilings.
There ought to be lawsuits like these around the country, but it’s nonsense and traitorous attitudes like this which discourage people form coming out, standing up, and getting us into courts. Now we sit and wait while you and the self-appointed gay intelligencia screw up another chance to get into court by whining about “how it’s not the right time” despite the fact the public supports us. But in typical left fashion, it’s all about appearances instead of doing what’s right. Which is why we’ll NEVER move forward without the courage of men like these and *real* legal geniuses like Olsen and Boise, who aren’t afraid to stand up and say “this is right, it doesn’t matter what Gay, Inc has to say about it”.
As for your commentary about the zealots who oppose us, did you read what they had to say about the Judge who ruled in the Prop 8 case, you know, the REPUBLICAN appointee?!? They don’t need an excuse to rail on us, and it’s pathetic that you cave in and worry about their words instead of supporting the men who have the guts to move forward. That is such a prime example of cowardice it’s not even funny.
You and all those happily burning these boys at the stake ought to be ashamed of yourselves, you’re setting us back more than you know.
Develop a spine and grow a pair.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@DR: Are you always this dense?? I am 100% in favor of filing as many motions to achieve the exact same rights as every other person in this country is entitled to. My one and only point I am trying to hammer thru your and other thick heads is that like it or not you need to have respectable, likeable, and resonsible persons taking the lead in a case. The rightwing will be all over his myraid of legal problems like flies on shit. And if you can not understand that in turn all the Gay community suddenly becomes a scam artist like him thru association come out from under the rock you have been living under. I am sick and tired of being treated as a second class citizen. I am not going to back someone who is going to damage chances for me and my fellow Gays to gain the equal footing we deserve.
Wake the fuck up and smell the reality. This guy will hurt the case
thomasAlex
“The organization says it was blindsided by the lawsuit, as in the plaintiffs didn’t alert the state’s gay leaders, and this makes them feel sad.”
Maybe because it doesn’t concern them? It is none of their business what others do, how ironic!
Rick Brannon
GayINC needs to shut the fuck up.
“We know better than you” is the constant nattering of HRC and orgs of the same ilk.
If you don’t like what they do, then don’t look at it.
Mike
So who are these Wyoming gay ‘leaders’ who were blindsided by this case?
And from whom do they get their mandate?
I agree that the plaintiffs in this case may not be ideal representatives for the gay community (to hetero Middle America), but the fact is that they are FULLY entitled to bring this case. They are absolutely not required to seek permission from the gay ‘leadership’ to pursue their civil rights.
I would hope that Wyoming’s gay ‘leaders’ will try to engage with this couple and help them with lawyers etc, and to file similar cases on behalf of other same-sex couples in Wyoming.
Their reluctance to do anything except criticise this couple is a very pathetic response by them.
Dave
The fact the LGBT organizations were wrong to oppose the Prop 8 suit does not mean they’re wrong to oppose this one.
There’s a world of difference between a suit being brought by a team of experienced Constitutional attorneys in a generally gay-friendly district court, and a suit being brought by a couple of pissed-off twinks with a “Lawsuits for Dummies” book and a history of mental illness who may, in fact, not even have standing.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@Mike:
@Dave:
Thank you for both being a voice of reason. Everyone has a right to bring a case. However like it or not the leads in a case become the face of the case. News articles about the case will no doubt bring up Shupe-Roderick’s unsavory past and multiple arrests and suits he is involved with.
The rightwing who are one thousand times better than us in getting negative info out about anthing Gay suddenly add “felon and con-artist” to the laundry list of things we supposdly are including child rapists, sluts, AIDS carriers,and so on and so on………This guy is simply not sympathetic or a good face for the cause because he is not going to bring any of the persons in the middle to support the cause. Plain and simple….
And to someone up aboves reference to Rosa Parks. A huge reason she resonated with so many people back then was she was a sympathetic person who others could relate to her and feel for the injustices she was forced to endure……….
DR
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS:
You’ve already decided to try this case in the case of public opinion, so let’s take a little test, shall we? Tell me, without the use of google, anything of substance about the plaintiffs in the Prop 8 case. Or in Iowa. Or Massachusetts or any other state or European country where we know lots of personal details about the plaintiffs (not their lawyers, the PLAINTIFFS).
Oh, right, we know very little if anything except that they were probably white, middle class and “safe”.
I repeat, NONE of this is admissible in a constitutional challenge. But nice to see that we are only supposed to protect or stand up for the “right” people.
Pathetic. For a group that demands full equality, you are sure willing to throw the rights of every GLBT citizen in Wyoming under the bus with your limited legal knowledge because these two aren’t the “perfect” plaintiffs.
Hence the reason we have no rights in this country. Our leaders have no spines, and anyone who dares to speak up without prior approval of the folks at the right cocktail party get subject to smackdowns.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@DR: Would you pretty please take your head out of your butt???? I have seen photos and bios of most of the plaintiffs and they are persons who have been in long term relationships, contribute to their commmunity and are stable. Like it or not that is what people respond to. They don’t respond to a con artist who seems to attempt to rip off anyone he comes in contact with. All I have stated is that they are horrible representives of the Gay community. People look at the bios of the leads (which will be well known courtsey of NOM and their evil minions)
I actually agree with you in most of your points. However the people I want leading the charge have to be more media friendly and sympathetic to those who are not in the Gay community. We already have a deck stacked against us. Why in the world make the battle even more difficult????????????………
DR
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS:
You just don’t get it, and quite frankly, you never will.
You claim to have the GLBT community interest at heart but are scared of your own shadow. Maybe Gay, Inc ought to get these boys a lawyer, neaten up the complaint, and go from there instead of thrashing them online to any blog nasty enough to listen to character assassination instead of dealing with the merits of the challenge, which neither you nor the folks at LGR have done (because you can’t).
This is just sad, and you folks really just sicken me. Last time I checked, equal rights meant the rich white folk, the “safe” middle class folk, and the lower class folk. It meant the two dads at the end of the street and the leader dad in the apartment upstairs. It meant the folks who don’t need our help and the ones who really need our help.
It’s disturbing that we want to sweep these two under the rug instead of helping them. But that shows me the true character of Gay, Inc, and it’s apparently for sale at the right price, and screw anyone who can’t afford it.
I don’t think so.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@DR: I am so sorry you need to go down to the clue store and buy a whole bunch. Because it is obvious that you are not in possession of a single one……….
One more time and I am done. I am 100% in favor of challenges to the laws that prohibit the Gays from benefiting from the exact same rights and benefits that every other American. Yes there are thousands of Gays who are down and out. Same as members of other communities. To those who are attempting to get themselves out of their situation I say kudos and we should assist in every way possible.
However if you are going to attempt to scam people, steal checks from the IRS, file false documents, represent yourself as something you are not, bring lawsuits against banks, employers, friends etc. etc. I DO NOT WANT SUCH A PERSON BEING THE LEAD IN AN IMPORTANT CASE THAT CAN SET PRECEDENT AFFECTING MY RIGHTS AND THOSE OF MILLIONS OF OTHER GAYS.
And did you notice this: All of those cases were eventually dropped or dismissed. He didn’t get a penny out of all those suits and actions he brought forth. You want to know why??? Most likely they were all bullshit scams attempting to misappropriate monies that he had no claims to.
If you are so full of sympathy for him please let us know in what amount the check you have sent him is for………..
DR
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS:
You have no clue how the legal system works, you just want to try this in the court of public opinion. You are no better than any other hate group which blast the GLBT community with personal attacks when you can’t argue the merits of the case.
With so-called “friends” like you, who the hell needs NOM?
Mike
Criticising this couple for exercising their rights is all very well, but what can be done about it.
As many people have already stated they are perfectly entitled to take a court case against Wyoming’s homophobic laws.
Whether they are ‘acceptable’ or not is irrelevant. They cannot be told they are not allowed to take this case.
I expect some leadership from the community ‘leaders’ on this.
When are they going to engage with this couple and to assist them? They cannot stop the couple so they should bite the bullet and try to make the best of the situation
How far are they in the process of taking a case on behalf of gay couples who are more Middle-America-friendly?
damon459
So the only people who can fight for gay rights are boring white couples in suburbia who have been together for 20 yrs? That’s total BS why not just come out and say we have to be just as boring as the rest of “middle America” to be excepted? I’m not going to wait tell I’m 50 yrs old and in the burbs with my white picket fence to fight for equal rights and btw I hope I never become that boring.
Michael
Everybody is entitled to their day in court, so in that regard, have at it, and best of luck. Bear in mind, these boys have a track record of being dismissed by the court for bringing frivolous litigation – the kiss of death from even the most patient of judges. Just saying, their opening statement in this matter better be mighty compelling.
Melanie Nathan
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: you have no idea what you are talking about – a suck of of thum statement -may serve to soothe you; I guess that accounts for you bullying style in exchange for aa real attempt at discussion Melanie nathan.
Melanie Nathan
Wait for Right time? PLEASE there is not right time with David And Ryan, This is an attention seeking scaM
1. Davis been in prison and lawsuit vs government
2. Three kids with 2 different woman and his only 25
3. Currently up on a fraud charge for falsifying documents
5. Pretended to have a DP certificate when did not
6. Ryan is apparently disable and only 21.
7. Davis has a criminal record
A these the posters boys that ought to be rumbling with Federal COurts. It not about waiting – it about what is good for the movement as a whole at a time when Prop 8 and Massachusetts are doing well.
If he is doing this because he sol badly wants to marry _ ryan and because he has such a history of self rep lawsuits. he shoulg go tom Canada another US jurisdiction to get married., Thids stinks like rotten fish
LaReina
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: I bet you’re the type that blames drag queens for problems the gay community has getting accepted. We drag queens would rather help the enemy than any Barney Frank who tries to keep us seperate.
Kamrom Dechu
@PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS: I have to disagree with you there: Theres zero chance i’d vote for a party that has stated its views that people like yourself, myself and a lot of others are subhuman. And theyve made very clear they arent going to stop just because we did. One time, in middle school, a kid told me that even if I changed what was being made fun of, they would continue to harass me over it; it had become habit. And thats how htings are in the political climate.
What got me upset this morning was looking back to my old hometown in Wyoming, and noticed the state’s seal: It was right there, prominent “equal rights” and in the Wyoming constitution:
97-1-001. Power inherent in the people.
All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority, and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness; for the advancement of these ends they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish the government in such manner as they may think proper.
“97-1-002. Equality of all.
In their inherent right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, all members of the human race are equal.
97-1-003. Equal political rights.
Since equality in the enjoyment of natural and civil rights is only made sure through political equality, the laws of this state affecting the political rights and privileges of its citizens shall be without distinction of race, color, sex, or any circumstance or condition whatsoever other than individual incompetency, or unworthiness duly ascertained by a court of competent jurisdiction.” I don’t think its possible using human languages to spell that out any more clearly than it is, stamped across the state seal.
And yet they decided “Well, we’re the equality state, but that doesnt mean we have to give people we think are icky the same rights as normal people.
Its just..how someone can be in favor of both those things simultaneously is totally foreign thought to me.
what also bugs me..is people who use us. For instance, Im very upset that Obama keeps fighting *against* DADT repeal efforts, even though he says otherwise. And he put it off so long, playing silly politics, that now theres no way they can get equal rights passed. they never cared. they never planned to do more than throw us a token bone….
But its still better than being executed by rightwing lunatics who think a feminine guy is an abomination. I know what happend in ancient rome, when they went all “goddy;” The submissives were attacked first. Their warped views on gender roles are really sad.