A straight, single 20-something woman is convinced all the guys she’s been meeting on straight dating apps are secretly gay and she’s fed up with it, so she’s seeking advice from our buddy Rich Juzwiak over at Slate.
“I’m a straight, single woman in her late 20s, and I’ve been on dating apps on and off for a few years now,” the woman explains. “I’m reaching out … about an experience I continue having over and over again on dating apps: I’m convinced I keep meeting closeted gay men.”
The woman explains that she keeps meeting guys who she likes. They’ll text for a while then meet up somewhere (or, more recently, have a Zoom date), and that’s when everything always goes awry.
“They come off as absolutely, 100 percent not straight—they have ‘gay voice,’ which I know you’ve already addressed on your column, and a specific body language,” she writes.
“I realize this sounds incredibly judgmental and ‘dated,’ but I’ve also known many men who exhibited these qualities for years and they have all ended up coming out sooner or later. I also know these guys could be queer or bi or something else.”
The woman goes on to say that the men all claim they’re straight, but she’s just not convinced.
“This happens to me so often that I’m starting to think dating apps are full of closeted gay men looking for beards,” she concludes. “I’m frustrated, confused, ashamed of having these thoughts, and I’m tired, so tired.”
Then she signs her letter “Fruit Fly.”
In his response, Juzwiak gently informs the woman that, yes, she’s being judgmental and no, the guys she’s meeting probably aren’t “closeted gay men looking for beards.”
“I don’t know what’s up with these guys you’re encountering,” he writes. “I haven’t read anything documenting the cultural phenomenon you suspect is afoot, and certainly gay men have their own apps to play on.”
Juzwiak continues by informing her, while there is a chance her suspicions may be accurate, we’re not living in the 1950s anymore.
“I’m not saying that no one is closeted and in the market for a beard anymore, but given the state of acceptance in many places, I would assume those guys would be more difficult to come by and not, as you suggest, as common as contoured cleavage at a drag show.”
He concludes by telling the woman that he believes the issue is her, not the men she’s meeting.
“What I think it comes down to is that you’re connecting with guys that you’re not attracted to,” he writes. “The way a person carries him or herself has a lot to do with their appeal, and you’re just not buying what they’re carrying.”
Instead of assuming all the guys she meets are gay and getting fed up about it, Juzwiak suggests she update her profile to detail exactly what qualities she’s looking for in a man. If that means being a little shallow, so be it.
“Dating is a slow, annoying process,” he writes, “as I’m sure you are aware.”
What advice would you give this woman? Share your words of wisdom in the comments section below…
jayceecook
“What advice would you give this woman?”
Try chicks.
judithesanchez68
jassica Simspon Start getting paid every month Thousands Dollars online. I have received Many Buck in this month by just working online from home in my part time.every person easily do this job by just open this link and follow details on this page to get started…? 6.gp/a74hR
Creamsicle
I knew a woman whose marriage ended suddenly while they were both in graduate school. I’d met her ex-husband a handful of times, and in our superficial interaction I got a gay vibe off of him, but brushed it off since he was married to a woman.
After her marriage ended she started seeing another guy and he gave me such obvious gay vibes that I didn’t even find out they were dating until the 3rd time I met him.
I do think some women are just attracted to gay men. I think there’s a good chance it’s because they’re the men who come off less “threatening,” because they’re not threatened by effeminate things. Which is not to say that all gay men are into effeminate activities and things. But there may be overlap between gay men in denial and women who are willing to look past red flags, for one reason or another.
I have another friend who is questioning his heterosexuality and has been VERY casually dating a woman for over a year. They have not had sex and they’re barely affectionate. She lives a 3-hour drive away, and she is 100% in control of when they see each other. She is a widow who lost her husband in her early 30s, and I believe the only reason they have continued to “date,” is because she needs someone with whom she can feel in control.
Some people date while looking for something that dating cannot provide, so it’s natural to be dissatisfied when we don’t get what we want. It sucks because we hurt people in that process, and we often don’t even realize it until after the fact.
jayceecook
So did the two men your friend was with who gave off gay vibes turn out to be gay? Or did they just exhibit socially constructed “feminine” behavior?
Center_Right
Men who give off gay vibes don’t necessarily act like a woman. Maybe it’s the way they look at other men, or they feel more comfortable being around other men. Anyway, we need more of these masculine acting gays because the feminine ones have been on the spotlight for too long and they are just attention wh*res.
jayceecook
@Center_Right Some of the most vain, obnoxious, loud, and attention seeking gays are the “masculine” acting gays. They are the peac0cks of the LGBTQ community. They have been around for a long time and will continue to be so. Especially since the LGBTQ community at large has embraced hetero assimilation.
Donston
I love cute, clever, more effeminate guys. Do some of them do “too much”? Well, yes. But femme-phobia, masculine superiority and “straight passing” privilege are real things. And people can talk about fem “gays” being more in the forefront. But if more “straight passing” guys were unembarrassed and loud about their same sex attractions, passions, affections, love, relationship ambitions instead of staying closeted or meekly embracing whatever identity then that wouldn’t be an issue. While damn near every “gay movie” features “straight passing” male performances. So, quit the whining about fems.
Creamsicle
@jayceecook I don’t know about the new boyfriend, but I actually got confirmation about the ex-husband. I flirted with a guy who happened to know them, and a few months after their divorce, he and the ex-husband started dating.
Donston
I really don’t think it’s Juzwiak’s place to tell her what these guys likely are or are not. And as “open-minded” as the world seemingly is nowadays, homophobia, being on the DL, internalized homophobia, gay insecurities, hetero pressures, religious pressures, confusions about your dimensions and who you are and what you want- these are still very common.
In general, more people are gonna have to be “open minded” if they want partnership. I understand that you want what you want. But folks do need to start understanding and being okay with the reality that “queerness” is not unique or special. In fact, it might represent more people than not. Perhaps the majority have some type of dimensions in their gender and/or sexuality. Perhaps most people fit within the gender, romantic, sexual, affection, emotional investment, long term relationship contentment spectrum. So, this generation is gonna have to get over the identity dependence and this obsession with wanting to be with a “straight”, “gay”, “bi” person. Furthermore, a male having effeminate attributes does not equate to homosexuality. Just like a male not having effeminate attributes doesn’t equate to heterosexuality. Though fin you suspect someone is keeping something from you or has ulterior motives, that’s not a good way to start a relationship. It sounds like she wants a conventionally “masculine” guy. And she every right to aim for that. But watch that “masculine” dude that she nabs turns out to be into dudes.
Even in today’s world most people still don’t find their significant other online. So, I don’t understand why people assume that they’re gonna find “love” online. The World Wide Web doesn’t owe you anything.
jayceecook
I really don’t think it’s your place to tell Juzwiak how to do his job. Nor is it your place to essentially validate what that woman is saying about these men. I also don’t think it’s your place to tell people to get over identity/label “dependence”. Nor is it your place to tell people how they should go about dating.
Also Juzwiak did touch upon the fact that closeted gay men still exist so it’s very likely you’re overreacting a bit. Also, most of what you said is exactly in line with his commentary. Granted you went into it a bit more than he probably did but both of you came to same conclusion.
I think you’d be surprised how many people DO find their S.O. online. I’ve known a few people who have predating smartphones and apps. Maybe look at the numbers? Granted a lot of the research has been done on hetero people but considering they are the majority it makes sense.
Donston
Don’t get what the bitchy attitude is for. I do feel it is misguided for either the columnist or this woman to be determining what these men are. And yes, some people do find relationships online. But there’s starting to be this belief that you can only meet someone online. While most substantial relationships start that way. People are starting to limit themselves to online dating, and that is probably a mistake.
But let’s be real, your attitude is mostly driven by my indifference towards identity dependence, which I get.
Chris
@jayceecook, “…Some of the most vain, obnoxious, loud, and attention seeking gays are the “masculine” acting gays…”.
Are you effing kidding me?? I’m SO sick of BS comments being directed toward gay men who don’t act fem, i. e., masculine. Since when does being gay preclude (big word for a little mind like yours so look it up) being masculine. I am none of the things you listed in your tirade and am still gay. I’m not hiding or putting on a front. I’m out to everyone. I no more need to suppress my masculinity than you do your femininity. (Yes, I’m assuming your a big fem gay because of your negatively grouping masculine men into a group). I am who I am and act how I act, which is a masculine gay man. If that is a problem for you and crosses the grain of your feminine sensibilities then how about kissing our collective masculine a$$es
Donston
There are a-holes in every demo. But perhaps “Jay’s” resentment comes from the fact that many masculine/straight-passing “queers” do feel superior to “fems”, are hostile towards “fems” and they do have certain privileges. I see a ton of fem shaming and masculine praising online all the time. More masculine dudes often have no problem embracing and marketing that privilege. “Straight passing” guys are also more likely to stay closeted or more likely to exude internalized homophobia and a continuous shame towards having same-sex attractions, affections, romantic passions, love, relationship preferences. So, I do get where Jay is coming from despite the severe language. The whole masc vs fem thing is beyond tired.
winemaker
Sad to hear this 20 something single woman is only meeting guys she suspects are gay on dating sites. And even more sad, people who lie about themselves in on line dating for many reason too numerous to list here but one might be, they might think the qualities that make them who they are won’t be attractive to someone else so they ‘stretch the truth’.. Others are ass wipes who get thrills out of deceiving others. Does this woman have actual telephone conversations with these potential dates before meeting them in person to get a feeling about them via their voice? If she doesn’t she might want to do this up front. By doing this she won’t be wasting time on possible no-goes. Most people are using on line dating to meet quality dates after the other conventional ways have failed them and they aren’t meeting the type of people they’re looking for in a romantic partner. On line daters need to be completely honest about themselves and what they’re looking for in a partner. This woman is obviously straight and deserves to find a guy who’s straight and totally into women. She also might review her profile to see if there’s anything that might be ambiguous or a ‘problem’, and be specific about what she’s looking for. thus there’s little chance of a misunderstanding and thus people wont’ waste time , energy and emotions on something possibly doomed to fail. Be wise!
Donston
That’s my thing. If you are so sure that you only want to deal with masculine, heterosexual, “straight” men then place that in your profile. I don’t see any reason for anyone to be offended. If that’s all you’re willing to deal with then you gotta let people know, for the other person’s benefit as well.
I just think assuming all these guys are “gay” or even “non-straight” isn’t fair. But there is indeed a decent amount of closet cases, confused “queers”, and overall homo-leaning males looking to latch on to women for an ego boost and for social status. That is something that the columnist doesn’t seem to want to admit.
splunky
I get the feeling that even if she put something like “I only want 100% masculine straight men” on her profile, she would still be convinced that the new guys she’ll wind up dating are really gay too. She’ll find something to pick at. She seems paranoid. Maybe lay off the dating apps and talk to a therapist. Or maybe stay single while figuring yourself out.
Aires the Ram
Well, she’s “20-something”. Ok, that being said, she grew up in an era of radicalized man-hating feminists, those who feel that masculine behavior is a “problem”, those who drug their little boys with ritalin to curb their masculine behaviors and make them more like girls. I have no clue how she personally grew up, but I’m saying all of this has been prevalent in our society for all of her life. So is it any wonder why “some” “20-something” women are (much to their confusion), attracted to males who do not project traditional masculine behaviors? Perhaps she’s crying out “I NEED A MAN!”, but doesn’t understand the source of her fear/distaste/attraction for traditional men?