In a recent interview with The Guardian, British-born Looking star Russell Tovey spoke about his father’s decision not to allow him to attend the performing arts high school he had his sights on. Instead, he went to a more diverse school that he feels toughened him up.
He told The Guardian:
“I was so envious of everyone who went to Sylvia Young Theatre School. I wanted to go but my dad flat-out refused. He thought I’d become some tapdancing freak without qualifications. And he was right in a way. I’m glad I didn’t go.
I feel like I could have been really effeminate, if I hadn’t gone to the school I went to. Where I felt like I had to toughen up. If I’d have been able to relax, prance around, sing in the street, I might be a different person now. I thank my dad for that, for not allowing me to go down that path.”
The context, it should be noted, is that Russell feels his high school experience made him a more versatile actor, meaning better at playing straight/gay characters.
But the sentiment comes uncomfortably close to echoing a pervasive attitude in the gay community — that femme is bad and masculine is good. You need look no further than Grindr profiles to see one negative expression of this idea: “Masc4Masc,” “No Femmes,” etc.
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Then there’s the generalization of a performing arts school as a place where all people do is “prance around, sing in the street.” And given his tone, his father’s “tapdancing freak” evokes code for “tapdancing fag.”
All in all, it doesn’t sound good no matter what he meant.
It’s fine for Russell (and everyone else) to be whoever it is they want to be, but when we start assigning values to identities it will always spell trouble.
He goes on to say:
“I get told, a lot, that I’m kind of carving my own path. That there are not many actors who are out and are able to play straight, and gay, and everyone’s OK with it.”
There aren’t, but perhaps it’s a sign more of the times and less of his father having instilled some external “tough guy” front in his younger self that allows Russell to navigate the entertainment industry as a versatile and talented performer.
But regardless, it’s the wrong message for LGBT youth, many of whom make up the audience of Looking and in turn look up to its stars as role models. And it’s certainly the wrong message for parents of said youth, many of whom may not know what to make of their sons’ desire to “prance around.”
We don’t mean to say Tovey has committed any mortal sins here. He’s an active and outspoken member of the gay community, and part of a show we think does a great job at trying to “get it right” when it comes to representing gay people.
But there is a conversation to be had among us about how we qualify identity. Because “that path,” as Russell put it, leads to no better or worse a destination than any he wound up on.
AlexM
The latest thing the gay media is upset about is something as trivial as this? It’s really not that serious..
Charlie in Charge
Yee. Well… I really do like his acting (hello Being Human werewolf goodness). I just don’t think it quite works the way he imagines. I feel like a lot of the effeminate people I have met talked about having a horrible time trying to toughen up in their youth.
I would really rather high school students felt comfy being as masculine or feminine as they please and I am overjoyed at the many parents who seem to be supportive of their non-gender-role-conforming kids.
Paco
Funny, I found him to be more attractive when he was the skinny geek. Bigger muscles must kill brain cells or something.
Gruffling
Equally however a lot of young people (including myself) struggled to accept themselves and come out due to the perception that being gay equated to being effeminate (chalk that up to the media perpetuating stereotypes in some form or another – Looking being no exception) so an environment with the likelihood of there being a larger number of people who conform to the more effeminate type (be it just who they are or an act – it often seems very forced to me, which probably puts me in a much more polite version of the ‘no fems’ category) can actually be damaging whereas a regular school environment (while not the best by far) can allow people to be themselves easier and yeah coming out can take years of being Narnia-levels of closted but it’s better to be who you are and not what people expect you to be. Ironically in saying this I study theatre at university where I’m the only gay guy and the least camp. Variety is the spice of life.
DDstar1me
oh no! This sounds like a setup for another Masc Vs. fem battle in the comment section. Look I understand how he feels. I think he is just saying that he’s glad to have a nice even contrast between the two (masc vs.fem) it just allows him to be a more well rounded actor.
Good luck to him.
Paco
@Gruffling: Having to hide who you are or put on an act so others won’t harass or attack you, is not being yourself. It is being what others expect you to be out of fear.
DDstar1me
Also, he did say in a previous queerty post that he wished he was more of a song and dance man like his co-star who plays Patrick in looking.
Gruffling
@Paco: Omitting to mention your sexuality to varying degrees (some people do pretend to be straight but that wasn’t me so I can’t speak from that angle) is less harmful than thinking you need to behave a certain way to be who you are or worse feel like you don’t belong in either world.
DarkZephyr
@DDstar1me: Personally I don’t think its ever been about “masc Vs. fem”, that would require equal rancor for masculine men coming from certain feminine men. I think its always been about Feminine men wanting respect and *certain* but not all masculine gay men wanting to justify their attitude towards feminine gay men.
MisterDemand
@Gruffling:
I completely agree. I dont think some in the gay community realize how isolating it can be if you don’t act a certain way. I think if you are ‘fem’ thats fine, but its also fine to be masculine.
I don’t get the double standard im cheering every guy who wears lipstisk or a non-gender conforming clothing to school (which is fine), but not supporting masculine gay men who like themselves the way they are.
I think Tovey was commenting on that he how hes happy how he turned out as an adult and actor.
Giancarlo85
Oh great more of this. It is obvious this guy has a pea sized brain. A mediocre actor at best. And more affirmations of how distorted some gay men think towards feminine gay men. Femmes are out there and are changing perceptions. I rarely see masculine, so called “str8 acting” men do that.
And then we have certain gay men saying effeminate gay men are forcing themselves to be that way… Oh really? Perhaps you should ask yourself the same question about hiding who you are and forcing yourself to be masculine!
Giancarlo85
Oh yea… The criticisms have been posted. Poor masculine men… Never being accepted by feminine gay men blah blah blah blah…
Do people actually read what they write before posting it?
Paco
@Gruffling: In all my years, I have not once seen a femme4femme hookup profile or personals ad by a gay man. So I am not sure where you are getting this idea that femme gay men are shunning other gay men to be like them. I have never seen it. On the other hand, I have seen many self-described “masc” guys shun other gay men for not being masculine enough, with alarming frequency. “Masc” guys are usually attacked only when they do this (make being effeminate a bad thing), otherwise it is a complete non-issue when they are simply just being their masculine selves, and letting their “masculinity” speak for itself.
Gruffling
@Paco: I never said that. I said the prevalence of the effeminate gay guy stereotype can lead people to thinking they need to be effeminate in order to be accepted as a gay guy. Nowhere did I say effeminate men were attacking masculine men or forcing them to behave any differently.
RealBlast3
Going to a theater school makes someone effeminate!!?!? What!?!? This is very dangerous territory for an openly gay celeb to be going into. Does he not realize what he’s implying? He might as well have said that hanging out with gay people will turn you gay or that 2 dads raising a child will turn the child gay.
lauraspencer
I was just starting to learn who Tovey was as an actor. I enjoyed his work. Now that I see him as a human I don’t like him so much. I won’t support his career any longer. Ironic that an out gay actor on one of the few gay TV shows chooses to alienate his potential fan base.
A man is someone who is comfortable and confident in his own skin. Tovey is obviously so insecure that he feels the need to diminish others to make himself feel better. That is not a “masculine” characteristic.
Why is it that we constantly hear about masculine/fem discussion from guys who think they are “masculine”? It seems most times it is a “masculine” guy criticizing someone who is effeminate. Why? Why are “masculine” guys so worked up? Do we hear fem guys criticizing “masculine” guys? If a guy has to constantly state he is masculine it is more than likely he is NOT.
Giancarlo85
@Gruffling: What nonsense. Effeminate gay men are that way because that is the way they are. You are criticizing effeminate gay men because you think they are forcing themselves to be that way. Rather I think many masculine gay men force themselves to be more masculine since they are often in the closet and think being effeminate is bad. But hey… Keep conforming to societal standards on gender roles.
Ruhlmann
Oh for Christ’s sake by the time you reach high school you are what you are and does this dull knob think homophobes really care? When guys figure out I play both sides of the fence I get statements like “you don’t act gay”, “you don’t look faggy” and the one that still makes me chuckle “but you’re so good at hockey”. It’s hurtful and it pisses me off.
The best friend I have is a guy I worked for once who’s a big fat screamer you could peg as gay from a block away. We’ve been friends for 35 years and he’s the only person in the world I can count on for everything that makes a man a man and more importantly a friend.
Fuck Russell Tovey and his daddy.
NG22
Why, Russell? Why? I know he didn’t mean any harm, but it reinforces heteronormativity. We’re not straight. We don’t have to aspire to heteronormativity.
“…when we start assigning values to identities it will always spell trouble.”
This is one of the best clauses Queerty has published…ever?
Giancarlo85
I think in the end Russell Tovey is a guy people should not aspire to be. He put his own foot in his mouth and is trying to live up to societal standards. I am glad I am nothing like him and he isn’t a spokesperson nor representative of LGBT people.
Gruffling
@Giancarlo85: You’re picking and choosing parts of my comment. I clearly said that effeminate guys can be effeminate because that’s just the way they are. However there are times when the effeminate stereotype does feel forced. By your logic I can perceive your comment a homophobic attack on masculine men.
@NG22: Are you implying a gay guy being masculine is heteronormativity?
Giancarlo85
@Gruffling: Forced? I think not. And how is my comment remotely homophobic? Wow. Here is what I see… 99% of the time masculine gay men criticize effeminate gay men. Most effeminate gay men shrug it off. As someone who is feminine this is why I prefer other feminine gay men, rather then dating someone who is masculine.
I might too out for them. Yeah, I once was dating a guy but that ended because I was too gay for him. That is what he said. Masculine gay men seem to be a bit homophobic to me to be honest.
And yeah I agree with NG22… Many masculine gay men force themselves to be more masculine to fit in society.
MarionPaige
Click on the link and read the whole interview.
Tovey says that had he personally gone to a school focused on theater he probably would have turned out a different person. THEATER is not real world, anybody who goes to any school dedicated to one particular discipline is not going to get “real world experiences”. It’s like going to a fashion school and expecting the real world to be like fashion school.
Tovey is a crime victim. Tovey’s victimizers didn’t attack him to steal from him. In Tovey’s words, two guys went up to him with the express purpose of hurting him. It was “out of the blue” malice, motivated most likely because Tovey was dressed in a way that suggested he was gay.
McShane
If his quotes weren’t so blatantly chopped up… The interview makes a sh!tload more sense in it’s entirety.
Tovey thinks carefully about what he’s going to say next. If I had to guess, watching him fidget, I’d say he’s weighing up whether to be honest at the risk of causing offence, or whether to divert and say something bland. He chooses to risk offence.
Gruffling
@Giancarlo85: Your double standard is deeply disturbing. As is your inability to read a comment properly. You generalise and attack. You are a hypocrite. You say that every effeminate guy is just being himself whereas “many masculine men” are forcing themselves to be. Next thing you’ll be saying not being a cross-dresser is conforming to societal expectations. And yeah, you’re hating some gay men for being who they are, sounds like homophobia to me. In a relationship it’s different because not everyone gets on with every personality type, get over the fact that you got dumped, don’t take it out on others. I’m done wasting my time replying to a bigot.
Giancarlo85
I went to a public school for high school and went to a state university. Nothing fancy or expensive and I still turned out feminine. And I guess real world experiences are going to make someone more masculine? Terrible logic really.
Giancarlo85
@Gruffling: There is no double standard. I said some masculine gay men force themselves to be more masculine. You seem to be highly defensive and now you are engaging in ad hominems as you have no real argument and no real logic. There is absolutely no homophobia in most people. Seems to me the bigot here is you. You can’t stand feminine gay men like me so attack us and even bring up crossdressing. I never brought up crossdressing and I never have done it so it is irrelevant.
The guy broke up with me because I was out and he was a closeted and became increasingly homophobic. Rather lets just say it was better it ended. I don’t date closeted homophobic guys like that anymore. He had a terrible personality much like your own.
Giancarlo85
*in my post. Sorry autocorrect lol.
MisterDemand
@NG22:
Wait, how is that heteronormativity? that implies being feminine is the ‘right’ way to be gay. How about we just let people be who they are and have pride in who they are without attacking like its part of some agenda to attack someone else.
Giancarlo85
@MisterDemand: I would personally like to see a time when masculine gay men stop attacking feminine gay men. It didn’t take long to see that here.
Paco
@Jacob23: I would say the real moron is Russell Tovey for being thankful his homophobic father steered him down the path of not being “one of those gays”. I hadn’t realized performing arts schools were responsible for the creation of effeminate gay men. I’m glad Russell and his father cleared that up for me.
I wondered what was up with the new gym bod and ugly bulldog. Now I know.
DarSco
That way of thinking is so archaic! (that means old) I wonder if this guy’s dad still says Colored and Chinaman?
McShane
Tracer… you have to stop deleting comments. Life does not work like that. Jacob23 was right, you were wrong in deleting his comment. It was a near perfect example of your hypocrisy. You can’t sift through the bag throwing out what you don’t like, conveniently leaving you with what you do want.
If you cant handle a little backlash from your butchered fluff pieces, then disagree with it.
MisterDemand
@Giancarlo85:
How has anyone ‘attacked’ feminine men?!? I think being masc or fem is both fine. Only when someone talks about being masculine as a positive, does that become a bad thing; it being a sellout to ‘heteronormativity’ or some crap like that.
Please quote where I or Tovey has ‘attacked’ anyone.
jar
@Gruffling: said: I never said that. I said the prevalence of the effeminate gay guy stereotype can lead people to thinking they need to be effeminate in order to be accepted as a gay guy.
Yet you seem to focus your energy on the out feminine gay men, as if it’s their fault they’re the only gay men you see in your life. This is usually where the bias starts- why do they have to be so obvious? How come they’re the only ones we see, as opposed to the “normal” ones? Sorry, but this kind of focus or obsession is an expression of one’s own discomfort in his skin.
Isn’t the absence of these “masculine” gay men your problem? Why are they so absent? Certainly, Tovey’s and his dad’s attitude explains some of it.
lcandela123
oooh girlfriend! You gonna get bitch slapped now!
DarkZephyr
I was watching Taxicab Confessions the other day, a rerun from 2010 and this gay model dude who claimed to be THE face of Hugo Boss was going on about how he disliked flamboyant gay men and he was about as feminine and flamboyant as you could get, talking about how he was masculine. I love my masculine and feminine gay brothers, but I loath fem shaming, ESPECIALLY when it comes from a self identified “masc4masc” who just ain’t all that masc. It made me wonder just how masculine a lot of the guys here at Queerty really are who go on about how masculine they are and how “out of place” they feel around feminine gay men. I bet recording their own voice and playing it back would yield some surprises for many of them.
KwisatzHaderach
I believe McKellan or Jacobi said something similar once. That their experiences of being closeted (because it was fucking ILLEGAL in their day) helped make them into better (more versatile) actors.
I don’t see this as a judgment against those feminine gays.
Gruffling
@jar: The focus was on effeminate gay men because that’s the focus on the conversation. It’s not an obsession, just staying on topic, where you got that from is beyond me. I distinctly said the media shows mostly stereotypes in reference to young gay people finding themselves and what being gay means to them. Some people are just so defensive and sensitive.
Kangol
Fem shaming, effemophobia, sissyphobia, whatever you call it, is pathetic, and Russell Tovey’s blanket comments about theater training are also stupid.
Enjoy your moment in the sun, Tovey, and when you can find a coherent thought, don’t forget that it was “effeminate” gay men, again and again, who fought to make it possible for “masc,” fem-shaming gay men like you to live freely and without oppression, in the UK, in the USA, and wherever else there are laws protecting LGBTQ people.
Dev.C
Okay I went to performing art schools and I don’t get his logic that attending one will turn you effeminate and soft. I get that he’s proud that he grew up being a tough machismo closet gay, but why does he have to put down other gay men by generalizing their personality for doing musical theater. does he feel Jonathan Groff is a prancing fem queen, because he’s a theater kid?
MisterDemand
@Paco:
He never thanked his dad, he was thankful for they way he turned out- a way in which he’s comfortable and happy as person and actor.
People keep saying ‘fem’ guys are being attacked here, but all I’ve seen are attacks like yours on ‘masc’ guys and Tovey for being ‘muscular’. Liking yourself doesn’t mean disliking someone who is different.
Gruffling
@MisterDemand: You seem to be the rare bastion of common sense here (not the only one but the only one that’s really stuck around). But it doesn’t seem like some people can see reason or even read comments properly. I guess some people think it’s fashionable to make themselves out to be the biggest victim possible and not just live and let live.
Paco
@MisterDemand: ” feel like I could have been really effeminate, if I hadn’t gone to the school I went to. Where I felt like I had to toughen up. If I’d have been able to relax, prance around, sing in the street, I might be a different person now. I thank my dad for that, for not allowing me to go down that path.”
And in case you missed it…
“I thank my dad for that, for not allowing me to go down that path.” (of becoming an effeminate gay man by going to a theatre school).
DarSco
I have learned over the years that when most people are jealous or envious of something they try to reduce it to crap. This guy probably REALLY wtd to go to this school and because he didnt get to go he has to insult everyone who did go.
MisterDemand
@Paco:
You’re right i misread his comments there. However if u loom at the whole article hes talking about how as a skinny, weak, teen he felt helpless and survived a knife attack. I think he equates that respect for his father decision to have him be tougher and how he feels now as a beefier adult and actor
Paco
@MisterDemand: It’s also quite possible that had he been allowed to go to the school of his choice, he would have turned out exactly the same. Maybe with an even bigger range added to his acting abilities and less parroting of his father’s past homophobic nonsense. Who knows.
He stepped in it and realized it when he paused and started to fidget before finishing his answer. I was a fan, but can’t be now. I’m probably not masculine enough to be.
Giancarlo85
@MisterDemand: MANY Masculine men attack feminine gay men and say they should be less feminine because they are hurting the cause. I find those same masculine gay men contribute little to the cause for the most part (this is just a personal observation).
Tovey attacked feminine men in his statement and made them out to be bad. He tried to elevate himself above feminine men and that’s where he stuck his own foot in his mouth. His argument is stupid.
“I thank my dad for that, for not allowing me to go down that path.”
That is a clear attack.
And the funny thing is I went to public schools, and I’m still effeminate. So his logic is terrible.
Giancarlo85
@Gruffling: Yet you cluelessly stated that feminine men are forcing themselves to be that way because of some stereotype.
This is what I don’t get it… you called me homophobic, yet you are being highly intolerant and homophobic towards feminine gay men because they are more visible.
Billy Budd
Femme is good. I have had sex with many fem guys and it was awesome. Some are even tops. I once dated a fem guy (a total top) who was very insecure because he was fem and I was not. I had to CONVINCE him that it was OK.
polarisfashion
Most of the guys I know fall somewhere in the middle of the masc and femme spectrum.
Billy Budd
femme, not fem.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
You be proud of YOUR effeminacy and let other *OPENLY* gay men be proud of THEIR masculinity. Jesus!
MisterDemand
@Giancarlo85:
Im not saying that it doesnt happen ever, im saying its not happening here. Tovey talked about what was right for him, he didn’t say feminine men were bad, or less than- if u read the article hes actually talking about it in a way outside of sexual orientation. He talks about feeling weak, skinny, and vulnerable, and toughening up physically and emotionally.
Talking about who he is in a positive manner, and what is right for him is not an attack on others. Its very similar to what feminine guys do all the time, and it would be incorrect for masculine men to take that as an attack.
Giancarlo85
@MisterDemand: Actually he did say feminine were bad. You should really read what he said. Tovey’s argument was terrible really. One of the worst I’ve seen. Can’t believe you’re actually defending him. Oh and feminine guys are all weak, skinny and vulnerable? And aren’t tough physically or emotionally? Sorry, but this is where his argument completely collapses.
If he wanted to talk about himself in a positive manner that’s great. But he didn’t do that. He did attack others by spouting out nonsense generalities.
And what is it do feminine guys do all the time? Because I see that it’s one sided. I see masculine men attacking feminine men most of the time (like 99% of the time).
Giancarlo85
“I feel like I could have been really effeminate, if I hadn’t gone to the school I went to. Where I felt like I had to toughen up.”
This says it all really. He’s implying feminine men aren’t “tough enough”, even though feminine men are the ones that get the most abuse and are often more tough than anyone else. When you’re constantly attacked for your sexuality because you’re open about it and effeminate too, you’ll see how ridiculously stupid his statements are.
MisterDemand
@Giancarlo85:
Can’t he talk about himself in a positive way without it implying something else?? You statements about feminine men would oddly imply masculine men are less by your logic.
Billy Budd
I repeat: Femme guys can be daredevils in bed. The femme guy I dated had an enourmous, really huge dick and knew how to use it. Was also a great kisser (the rright amount of lip pressure and knew how to move his tongue). Who cares if they look less macho, when they can be such good lovers? I totally understand people who prefer masc guys, but they should just express a preference and not criticize femmes in general.
Giancarlo85
@MisterDemand: Again, someone else twisting it around and trying to make it seem like I think less of masculine men. Face the reality… masculine men are the ones doing most of the attacks on feminine men and making us out to be less. This is how I feel.
You guys really love twisting and distorting when backed up into a wall.
He clearly did imply being feminine was bad. Can you read?
Giancarlo85
@Billy Budd: I don’t know where anyone was asking about how femme guys were in bed. But thanks for sharing lol. 🙂
Billy Budd
Giancarlo is right. And Tovey is right TOO. In holywood, there is very little space for femme actors. It is much better to be butch.
Billy Budd
An exception: Alan Cumming. He is a successful holywoodian-Broadway femme.
jwtraveler
The “right way” to be gay is to be yourself and do what you like, and to respect other gay men who are being themselves and doing what they like.
On porn DVDs they sometimes include behind-the-scenes footage where the macho-looking performers prance around and act silly, faggy and sometimes kind of “femme”. I always find these clips much more appealing, enjoyable and erotic than the actual videos because the men look happy, they’re smiling, having fun and being themselves. I wish they would act that way in the film. I particularly remember videos with Francois Sagat (one of the most masculine-looking porn stars) and Damien Crosse. Cute is sexy.
jwtraveler
What about the majority of us who are neither “butch” nor “femme”? No one would ever call me a macho man, but I don’t think anyone thinks of me as effeminate. I certainly don’t.
MarionPaige
Russell Tovey “Straight Acting” Annually Retentive
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23daxj_russell-tovey-clips-annually-retentive-gay-role-2007_shortfilms
Zenguy
@McShane</a
I take no offense to his comments. I don't why so many people easily get their panties in a twist and immediately vilify him. This was his experience. He isn't denigrating the femininity some men have. He was being honest about how his influences helped make him a more rounded person. His problem is in the manner he explained it, sounding a little biased. He didn't mean to do any harm.
dave lopes
The majority of straight MEN act more masculine than they really are.
They learn to walk and talk and react in a masculine way.
There is nothing wrong with any man Straight or Gay not wanting to be effeminate or feminine.
I definitely would not want my 8 year old son to be effeminate.
Paco
@dave lopes: there is something wrong when the only way for them to affirm their masculinity, is by putting down other men for being effeminate, or as Tovey fondly reminisced about what his father taught him, becoming a “tap dancing freak”.
NG22
@Gruffling:
@MisterDemand:
My point is not that masculinity is heteronormative, but that valuing masculinity as a more desirable trait than femininity *is* very heteronormative. The idea is that masculine gay men can more easily ‘pass’ in a heterosexual world.
It’s nearly impossible to trumpet masculinity without implicitly making a statement about femininity. If you two don’t see that, then there there was no point in me taking the time.
MisterDemand
@NG22:
Thats ludicrous. If you are gender-conforming thats great. If you aren’t thats great too. Each should be able to speak about how what they do works for them. Like feminism, gender/sexual identity is a lot about choice. If you choose to be a working mom, thats great and doesnt take away from those who choose to be housewives.
If you are a masculine guy (gay or straight) then great, and that is irrelevant to those who are feminine which is also great
Why is it either or?!
demented
@Zenguy: Except that the way he phrases it, you could replace “effeminate” with any negative term and the tone would remain the same.
enlightenone
@Dev.C: “…does he feel Jonathan Groff is a prancing fem queen, because he’s a theater kid?”
Don’t know what Russell thinks of Groff. What I think is Groff isn’t so much “a prancing fem queen” whether he was “a theater kid” or not. He isn’t butch by no means or could pull off being “straight”/romantic lead straight or gay! His “Looking” role I suspect plays close to “typecasting.”
Arcamenel
He really stepped in it and anyone trying to find some way to defend what he says is clearly in denial.
IvanPH
Another reason to love this guy (besides those adorable ears, of course).
He’s an ACTOR. He needs ROLES. He needs to act masculine since most roles out there are that of straight men. No casting director in his right mind would cast a sissy gay man as a straight character. Do you think Neil Patrick Harris and Matt Bomer would have been cast and be effective in their straight roles if they’re flamboyant fairies in real life? Nope.
Haters gonna hate. Whiners gonna whine.
Giancarlo85
@IvanPH: Wow what rubbish. It isn’t like Tovey is that great of an actor to begin with. And an actor is someone who puts on a different persona for the screen. If they are flamboyant in real life what difference does it make? Does it reduce their ability to play the role given? I think not.
Yeah haters are going to hate… Much like yourself in how you insulted feminine guys in that post by calling them sissies and fairies. Can you be anymore of an idiot?
Tebn
I don’t understand the criticism. A guy has the right to feel proud of his masculinity and, also, he has the right to feel sexually attracted to other manly guys.
In my opinion, the masculinity is a beautiful and hot attribute of a man.
He likes to be a man and appear so, and this is not disrespectful neither a discriminatory approach.
Giancarlo85
So a feminine guy isn’t a man? And his statements were quite disrespectful.
tdh1980
The sad thing about those of you criticizing gay male femininity while praising gay male masculinity is that you act like the world of straight homophobes somehow makes the same distinction in a way that quantifiably works in the favor of butch queer men. When they campaign against our rights, they certainly aren’t giving the “masc” guys any preferential treatment. They may tolerate you more, but they hate all of us the same. Two lumberjacks walking down the street while holding hands and kissing will elicit the same reaction as two swishy twinks. Believe it.
jheryn
@Giancarlo85:
I really do understand where you are coming from. I have never in all my life cared whether a gay man is masculine or feminine. Any guy that is gay or straight should be what he is. It will never make him less of a man.
That being said, I think you may be reading into Tovey’s statement more than what is actually there. I don’t believe that he is implying anything about the toughness of anyone masculine or feminine. He is equating how he feels about himself. Saying that he is implying something that is more broad reaching is really giving him a lot of credit for being much deeper than he is.
I also think he is commenting on being the product of his environment. I’m the same way. My friends tell me that I don’t act feminine at all. I don’t know if that is true. I just am what I am. With the exception of one, all my gay friends are feminine acting and I love them a lot. One of those same fem guys is tougher, in all ways, than almost any person I know. But would I have been more feminine if my rough and tumble upbringing allowed me to be? Maybe. I don’t know. Again, I am what I am.
Also, saying that 99% of most masculine gays criticize feminine gay men is unfair and inaccurate. Yes they are out there but not that exaggerated. That would be no different than if I said that all feminine gays hate masculine gays when they say they are “Breeder Wannabes”. Yes I have heard that said.
While many masculine gays may be as you said, I can say for certain that I am not just one of the 1% who are not. Sir, that comment was unfair.
Kieran
I support Russell Tovey’s right to be as masculine as he wants to be, just as I support Alex Mapa’s right to be a “professional, effeminate gay man”. This shouldn’t be cause for controversy. We have as many different types of gays as there are different types of straights. Altogether now: “Vive le difference!”
Louis
@IvanPH:
Could dudes like you seriously grow up already?
Some of you think you have the audacity and right to refer to people who are offended as WHINING or crying.
Thst is blatantly rude and disrespectful period.
The way guys like you act I just always look at you not as gay men but more as straight men who happen too be bullies dressed up as gay men .
That’s just pathetic period.
Smh some people I swear.
Louis
@tdh1980:
Claps exactly ty you said it perfectly.
Giancarlo85
@jheryn: That’s incorrect. I’ve read what he said and I didn’t try to invent any further meaning to what he said. By saying what he said he alienated a bunch of gay people. This isn’t about himself. What he said was an attack on others because he is saying he is better than them.
Your statement is more of the same I’ve read in here and most of it isn’t based in reality. “Product of his environment”… more sugary words that mean absolutely nothing. I had a rough upbringing, yet I’m effeminate. So it’s all nonsensical.
Actually, saying that 99% of the criticism is done by masculine gays on feminine gay men is entirely true and accurate. If you cannot see that you’re deluding yourself. I’m sorry to say that. You live in fantasy land. And since when do feminine gays say that? you just make up a lot up. Sorry dude. But 99% of the attacks are masculine men attacking feminine men. This is fact. The comment is entirely correct and fair.
Cam
“I thank my dad for that, for not allowing me to go down that path.”
What he was saying seems pretty clear. He thanks his dad for not letting him act the way he wanted to act because that was bad.
I always liked him, but in the last year or so he seems to have become more of a gym-ed out Hollywood douche. Oh well.
onthemark
This comment thread makes me feel like PRANCING! And I don’t usually feel like prancing. If there wasn’t so much fuckin’ snow around here I’d go out prancing.
@DarkZephyr: That’s a very good point. A lot of guys who are so sure they are “masc” just aren’t all that. I’ve noticed that sort of thing many times and it looks (& sounds) pretty silly.
But I’m guessing the “masc” stuff is somewhat of a phenomenon of personal ads & online dating, where people are grasping at shorthand “descriptions” that aren’t really that descriptive.
xzall
I took his interview to mean that he really wanted to be the prancing gay but that his dad forced him to go against his nature by refusing to allow him to go to theatre school and now he’s glad about that because he can get more jobs as both a gay person and a straight person. He thinks his dad’s tough love that forced him to deal with bullies instead of being in a more accepting environment made him the person he is today.
I think that’s a totally messed up and sad statement that he doesn’t even realize he’s making. But it seems inline with a lot of current thinking.
How many people have attacked shows like Will & Grace, Glee and Modern Family and are constantly wishing for a show that doesn’t have ‘stereotypes’ . That’s just another way of saying you don’t want to see effeminate gays on your tv.
vive
I never thought Tovey was particularly butch in the first place.
But this interview clears up why his acting is so bad, repressed and without affect.
jheryn
@Giancarlo85:
Wow. You are really quite the expert and foremost authority on everything aren’t you? I stand corrected about so much. I am in awe.
Apparently you are the only one who can interpret the meaning of another person’s sentence. No one else’s take on it matters. It isn’t arrogance and self-righteousness that let’s you fully understand what Russell Tovey meant, you are just that insightful and possibly psychic.
Further evidence of amazingness is that you know everything about my life experience and what I have and have not heard. I’m obviously making things up because you have never heard it before. Again, testament to your overwhelming and all seeing knowledge. Hail the omnipotent Giancarlo85.
I don’t think it needs to be mentioned that although you have no actual factual evidence that 99% of the criticism of feminine gays is done by masculine gays, we need to take your word for it because you “see it” and are, let’s be honest, just that good. None of your 99% statement is “just made up.” You don’t need evidence for us to just accept it.
There are plenty who agree with you and who don’t on this thread. I don’t. Most of the people who did not like what Tovey had to say on this thread are respectful as are those who say they understand and have no problem with it. You on the other hand, are combative, rude, arrogant, and obtuse. If, and I say “If”, you are one of the effeminate gays that masculine gays are criticizing, it isn’t because you are feminine. It is because you are an ass, “dude.”
Giancarlo85
@jheryn: His own words speaks for themselves. I don’t need to elaborate on anything. The only ass here is you. And masculine guys criticizing me are immature and insecure. If they think I misrepresent them maybe they should stop being insecure closet cases.
Giancarlo85
And you haven’t presented any evidence for your stupid statements. So kiss it.
Captain Obvious
@DarkZephyr: Why are you trolling this blog all day everyday? Get a life.
jheryn
@Giancarlo85:
LOL. I don’t have any statements that need evidence. I wasn’t making factual claims. Everything I said was my opinion. Reading comprehension is your friend. Try it.
And thanks for the further evidence on what I had to say about you. Keep digging that hole. It’s entertaining for me.
IvanPH
@Giancarlo85
>If they are flamboyant in real life what difference does it make? Does it reduce their ability to play the role given? I think not.
Name me one flamboyant and effeminate gay actor in real life who has been cast in a straight role.
IvanPH
@Giancarlo85:
>If they are flamboyant in real life what difference does it make? Does it reduce their ability to play the role given? I think not.
Name me one flamboyant and effeminate gay actor in real life who has been cast in a straight role.
Giancarlo85
@jheryn: You have ZERO reading comprehension that’s the problem.
Giancarlo85
@IvanPH: My oh my, what a dunce. Some of the other gay actors you named are NOT masculine. You don’t seem to have much brain power.
Cam
@IvanPH: said… “Name me one flamboyant and effeminate gay actor in real life who has been cast in a straight role.”
_______________________
Neil Patrick Harris, Jim Parson, and on the other side, Queen Latifa, Rosie O’Donnell, two butch lesbians cast in straight roles.
jheryn
@Giancarlo85:
ROFL. Good comeback. I’m wounded. I may never post in a forum again in fear of your deft commentary and biting remarks.
Oh, I wrote that wrong. I meant “DAFT commentary” and “BRAINLESS remarks.”
I’m positive that both Russell Tovey and I will lose countless hours of sleep over your feelings about either of us.
Giancarlo85
@jheryn: What an idiot. He still continues at it. I don’t care for you. Wouldn’t care if you choked on a pretzel… you don’t have much brain power like someone else who choked on a pretzel. A certain former US President.
You’re such a dull dumb thing.
jheryn
@Giancarlo85: This is fun. I can just imagine that every time someone disagrees with you or calls you out, that you throw a tantrum right then and there.
You don’t care for me? Ouch! Hurtful. And here I thought we were becoming BFF’s.
You can childishly call me and others names. You can hate on all of these people that you disagree with or disagree with you. You can rant on celebrities that will never care about you. You can wish ill on others all you want. No matter what you do, however, you will still not be relevant to any of us. What you say doesn’t matter to me at all except as a source of entertainment. Keep replying. You amuse me.
DonovanS28
So he doesn’t want to be Femme and doesn’t view it as a positive? Does he not have that right? Get over yourselves! If thats what he believes thats what he believes……. Jeez talk about peer pressure and people trying to control others actions
Giancarlo85
@jheryn: You really can’t fix stupid. You prove that quite well. I love the quote “if you put lipstick on a pig it’s still a pig”.
You’re about as relevant as… nobody.
Have a nice day, kiddo. 🙂
jheryn
@Giancarlo85: There you go. More name calling. More thoughtless, unoriginal replies that I have come to expect.
I said you were not relevant and so your reply was what? Wait for it. You told me I wasn’t relevant. I know it must tax you, but can’t you come up with anything original?
Come on man. Give me something to work with. Your replies are just getting sad.
Make sure you provide some more geriatric quotes about my stupidity. Those really bite. Also, the pig quote was good too. Nonsensical, but entertaining.
Please, please reply again. I have my whole office staff reading your replies and laughing at you now. You have made our Tuesday afternoon a laugh riot.
enlightenone
@Tebn: “I don’t understand the criticism.”
It happens when people have literacy challenges.
Giancarlo85
@jheryn: Get a life.
rightsideup
Something I hate about the gay community is most people bitch about everything. You can not say shit about anything without some bitch crying. I am gay and even I am tired of hearing gay people bitch! SHUT THE FUCK UP! No one owes us anything. A gay man has a pass to say whatever the fuck he wants!
Giancarlo85
@rightsideup: Blah blah blah blah. If you say stupid shit people will criticize that.
dougrobnyc
Shame! Shame! Shame! He is off my list of people to watch!
Justin
I agree with him 100#. He should not have to apologize. Hurts when it hits home lolol Silly gooses… There now you hate on that lolol
Giancarlo85
@Justin: Yeah his career will be hurting soon enough.
IvanPH
@Giancarlo85: Matt Bomer and Neil Patrick Harris are flamboyant and effeminate? Just because they know how to sing and dance does not mean that they are flamboyant and effeminate.
Have your head examined.
IvanPH
@Cam: Neil Patrick Harris, Jim Parson are flamboyant and effeminate? Are you blind or deaf? I have never seen or heard those two act flamboyant and effeminate.
Queen Latifah and Rosie O’Donnell are butch? Seriously?
Tebn
@enlightenone: I wish you good luck with that.
Giancarlo85
@IvanPH: You’re a fool. Neil Patrick Harris and Matt Bomer are not masculine you stooge. You are the one that needs to get your head examined. What a moron you are.
IvanPH
@Giancarlo85: Neil Patrick Harris and Matt Bomer are not masculine?
Care to elaborate, you brain dead lowlife.
ml822009
@DarkZephyr: I find that most men who are masculine don’t really mention it at all, some do, but there are a /lot/ of guys who really report the masculinity that they aspire to have, rather than what they do have. Proven to me by countless hookups over the formative years. People really need to work out those self-loathing issues and worry about what people actually say and do–and for what reason, rather than HOW they are doing it or saying it. That said, knowing that there is a widespread notion in the gay community that masculine mannerisms are better than their feminine counterparts, actor could have been a little more insightful knowing his own celebrity or influence and what he says does have some small influence on the way that people think. Not really a major faux pas; I’ve heard FAR worse from gay people–right wing, no less–on Real Time with Bill Maher. Small potatoes. I wish people would realize how effeminate straight men can be and that there is no difference their mannerisms on average and those of gay/bi or whatever men. I wouldn’t have to scroll through so much 😐
GuliKala123
@ml822009: You just summed up what I was about to say. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this comment.