There’s going to come a time when my generation is going to get in serious trouble. It’s getting a little too comfortable. You still need to live in a little bit of fear and also appreciate the fact that you can do things today that you couldn’t do 20 years ago. If you dress like an angel with glitter—don’t ruin it for us. I feel like there’s almost a little too much pride, and those people wonder why they’re getting hated on.”Actor Jason Wise, 22, telling columnist Michael Musto about his concerns for his generation, in the Village Voice’s annual Queer Issue.
Charlie
I think many of our ancestors fought and died for the right for us to dress like glitter angels.
Gabriel
@Charlie: Ditto.
Roger Rabbit
I so agree.
It actually sounds like the protesters of the 50’s that hated the 60’s Stonewall DragQueen’s ways of protesting…
Or the str8 acting guys that are embarrassed by the fey boys.
I’m not sure I can respect the comment he made. Too many suffered and died for him to be able to make it.
fonzymorris
Spread your glitter wings and fly, young man! We don’t have to apologize to anyone for who we are!
Gregory
@Charlie: True. However it’s those loud, flamboyant, glittery angels who are setting the rather negative stereotype for everyone else.
Carson
I agree with fonzymorris – We shouldn’t have to apologize for who we are. If you want to dress like Rainbow Brite, so be it. If some actor I’ve never heard of has a problem with it, OH FUCKING WELL.
nature boy
The glitter angels that push the edges wider make it safer for those who prefer the safety of the middle of the herd.
gggggb
You almost have to think he wasn’t serious. If he was, he probably shouldn’t have said it out loud. He seems attractive enough, but we probably shouldn’t have to hear as much of what goes on inside of his head lol. Other people will write things for him to say out loud. He’s an actor!
Randall Reynolds
His comments come from self-loathing and being brainwashed by our REPRESSORS into thinking we should be SILENT.
We will never have too much pride.
Kev C
The freedom to pursue happiness is a fundamental american right. If dressing as an angel and dancing makes a person happy, that is their right. Conformists tend forget this fact in their rush to be popular and appease bullies.
sheena
what an idiot bitch
nature boy
hmm, I said equally stupid things (or worse) when I was his age… I’m just lucky they weren’t all over the internet. We did have an internet back then but just barely LOL. I do feel bad for kids today whose mistakes are so much more permanently public.
Kirk
Oh more “straight acting” nonsense. I’ve got a pair of glitter wings and I drive around in my new BMW convertible, you can be fem, and you can be a success in life and love. It’s called being gay, enjoy it.
Bee
@Gregory: Ok im not loud but im a lil flamboyant nd i do like to wear make-up and androgynous clothin nd i dnt like how y’all try to come down on us for being who we are, i’m not goin to stop being who i am nd become “straight-acting” just becuz me being who i am i to you providing a negative stereotype i ain’t ask anyone to make me the symbol for every gay person if people are that ignorant its there problem not ours nd damn sure not mine i will continue being an effeminate man until i die nd u know what..my man likes it so dats all dat matter lol
Mark
I’m continually amazed by the dismissal of differing viewpoints that happens in the comment sections of this website. For a community that preaches tolerance, we seem to have a hard time accepting divergence from standard homosexual narratives.
While maybe not said in the most eloquent way, Jason’s words speak true to me to some extent. I know I’ll risk vilification for even proposing the question, but has PRIDE outlived its original purpose? PRIDE used to be the only venue through which gay men and women were allowed to express themselves openly, but I wonder if that is the case anymore.
Do the flamboyant costumes and propensity for nudity do more to hurt the cause than help? Everyone should have the right to be who they are, regardless of anyone else’s opinion, but I think it’s an oversimplification of the issue to simply say “Oh fucking well” to criticism from detractors.
PRIDE is not indicative of all gay men or women, but the stereotype that PRIDE presents is thought to be the norm by heterosexual society at large. Is perpetuation of that stereotype helpful? Does the potential for harm it implies outweigh the benefits PRIDE offers?
I think these are all legitimate questions that need asking–and I believe this is what Jason was touching on with his statement.
What it means to be GLBT has drastically changed over the last forty years. Has PRIDE evolved as well? I’m not entirely sure that it has.
Jason Wise
You all need to read the rest of the interview.
You will understand in context what I’m saying.
The article is about how others in my generation has no respect for those who paved our way.
Jason Wise
@jwbway
Mark In Colorado
Jason Wise is an idiot.
Then again Michael Musto is a total biphobic bigot, and hypocrite.
Who actually likes coffee?
@Mark: Finally! Someone who knows the meaning of the word ‘nuanced’.
frank
The Gay Generational Divide Is Wider Than Ever!
What youngsters think of your pride march
By Michael Musto Wednesday, Jun 20 2012
The gay generational divide has gotten wider than a midlife waistline, as new opportunities and attitudes take young gays miles away from the loathing and ignorance that clotted my own youth. To find out just how far the generations are separated while hoping to bridge the gap a little, I talked to 22-year-old, Ithaca-born gay actor Jason Wise, who came to my attention when he wrote a letter to The New York Times telling the paper that, contrary to one of its articles, young gays really do love Judy Garland. This guy sounded savvy beyond his years and proved to be the perfect young yin to my old yang.
MICHAEL MUSTO:
Hey, Jason. I grew up in the 1960s with next to no gay representation, except for two effeminate comedians on TV. The overall feeling was that gayness was a mental disorder that needed to be tracked down and cured. What was it like growing up in the 1990s and the aughts?
JASON WISE:
I grew up in that period where it was almost becoming trendy to be gay. I remember having friends in high school who’d say they were gay or bi just because it was fun and it was on TV. Then they’d realize, “Oh, I’m not really.” I remember coming to school and making jokes in class. Instead of “You’re the weird gay kid,” they’d laugh and say, “You’re so Jack” [from Will & Grace]. It encouraged me to continue to be funny and be gay.
MICHAEL MUSTO: And you had no issues at all?
JASON WISE: I did. I had to eat my lunches in the bathroom because if I sat in the cafeteria, kids would throw rolls at my head. I don’t think the kids being mean even knew I was gay—they just thought I was weird and different.
MICHAEL MUSTO: It’s funny, I didn’t get bullied at all (though I kept thinking I would). Maybe it’s because I kept to myself?
JASON WISE: It was something you didn’t talk about back then, but I feel like once it was presented to everybody on television, the bullying came from people feeling it was OK to bring it up, as opposed to being the elephant in the room.
MICHAEL MUSTO: Whenever gays make advances, haters get extra threatened. Anyway, let’s go back in time. I feel most young people don’t know about the pivotal Stonewall rebellion in 1969. Do you?
JASON WISE: I know Judy’s death is kind of what started the whole uproar. Wasn’t that the first time gays fought back in an extreme way, using the media?
MICHAEL MUSTO: Yes. You do know stuff. What about the early days of AIDS in the ’80s, when my generation was traumatically under siege? You weren’t even born yet.
JASON WISE: I have friends who say: “If I get AIDS, it’s fine. The doctor will take care of me.” They don’t understand that AIDS used to be a fatality. I don’t know if you can blame the young generation because things have changed more in the last 10 years than they have in 100 years. The only way this can be fixed is if younger gays spend time with older gays and talk about this stuff, but that’s not going to happen. Gay bars are not a central part of a young person’s life anymore. You used to go there to feel safe or to hook up, but now you don’t need it for that—it’s just a place to hang out. With Grindr and other social tools, gays are not mingling with each other because they don’t have to.
MICHAEL MUSTO: Well, even in the old days of bars, young people didn’t want to talk to the old folks. Believe me.
JASON WISE: A friend told me: “Why would I hook up with a gay who was here in the AIDS crisis? I’m much safer with the boy who just got here from Oklahoma,” which is the most irrational train of thought on the planet. My friends look at old gays as being gross and weird and “Why would I even bother?” I think: “So you are all about enjoying your gay life that’s safe and wonderful now? These are the people who did it for us.” Even I’ve been checked out by an old gay on the street, and I’m like: “Ugh. Gross.” But how am I going to feel when I look at a 20-year-old boy, and they roll their eyes? Well, it’s going to happen.
MICHAEL MUSTO: It’s probably already happening. You’re two years older than they are, lol. What’s the future for the community?
JASON WISE: There’s going to come a time when my generation is going to get in serious trouble. It’s getting a little too comfortable. You still need to live in a little bit of fear and also appreciate the fact that you can do things today that you couldn’t do 20 years ago. If you dress like an angel with glitter—don’t ruin it for us. I feel like there’s almost a little too much pride, and those people wonder why they’re getting hated on.
MICHAEL MUSTO: I don’t agree that there can be too much pride or that someone is asking for trouble by expressing themselves.
JASON WISE: That’s not really what I’m saying. I mean those people get too comfortable, and then they say [about the hate], “It’s because I’m gay.”
MICHAEL MUSTO: Well, being too comfortable was definitely not a familiar feeling from my own early years. Take care, Jason. Thanks for talking to an old gay.
Read more Michael Musto at La Dolce Musto
[email protected]
What the f**k
So a self centred young queen has an opinion…am I supposed to carefully consider it’s validity.Jason can keep on with his middle of the road self.One day he may learn that cow towing to your peers and the hateful stupid “majority “is never going to produce the beauty and innovation that individuality can bring.It’s the reason why art and music and fashion have become so dry. Just because you feel entitled doesn’t mean that you are or that you have anything of any use to offer..Most people are sheep and Jason’s one of them.
nature boy
@frank: thanks
@jason: yeah, most of the interview is fine, it’s just the last part that’s still wrong. Are you suggesting that gay men who dress like angels with glitter get hated on because people really hate angels, not gays?? C’mon, it is because they’re perceived as gay, and because they’re more on the fringe, they’re seen as an easier target. If they weren’t there to draw attention, the target would just be shifted to you.
@mark: you wrote “PRIDE used to be the only venue through which gay men and women were allowed to express themselves openly”…NOT! Gay men and women were not “allowed” to express themselves openly at Pride parades and events… they DEMANDED and INSISTED and EXPLODED into expressing themselves at Pride events…. DESPITE what mainstream culture was willing to “allow.” “We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it!” was the chant of my day. Yes, there was, and still is, a lot of “screw you and look what I can do” behavior at Pride events, but that’s completely understandable and trivial compared to centuries of repression, hatred, beating, brutality, and murder. When you shake up a soda and then twist off the cap, it makes a big sticky mess.
I do agree that Pride events will slowly become less necessary and relevant. As far as your statement that “the stereotype that PRIDE presents is thought to be the norm by heterosexual society at large. Is perpetuation of that stereotype helpful? Does the potential for harm it implies outweigh the benefits PRIDE offers?” …please understand, this question is nothing new, it’s been posed by every strait-laced gay since time began. I asked it myself at the first Pride march I cautiously attended at age 22, when some dude in pink tights and fairy wings was roller skating in circles around me. Luckily i got over that internalized homophobia, and realized it took a lot more courage and balls to do what he did, than what I was doing.
It’s hard, I know. People who feel your way, should really just band together and march as a group in button down shirts, chinos, and loafers, with signs saying “See we’re not all like that!” That would be actually be a positive contribution instead of just complaining about the people on your team who are different, and willing to celebrate that publicly, and DEMAND their right to live freely, even if it’s not “acceptable.”
To paraphrase Martin Niemöller:
“First they came for the angels in glitter,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t an angel in glitter.
Then they came for the leather men and shirtless party boys,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a leather man or party boy.
Then they came for the pierced lesbians and the defiantly transgendered,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a lesbian or transgendered.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”
Chris
Gay men are not responsible for the stereotypes hateful people want to inflict on others. I’m sick and tired of the “I HATE FAGS” mentality that some gay men with internalized homophobia spout all the time.
Get over yourselves, no one cares that you act masculine. Some people don’t want to because that isn’t who they are.
Heut
What a piece of dirt
USC Trojan Fan
How BITTER is this kid? He sounds annoying as HELL. His issues with gays and the gay community sound like he’s clinically insane. Someone get some professional help for this Jason Wise who I’ve never even heard of!
Carlos T.
An ignorant, jaded 21 year old kid who thinks he has all the answers and comes off like an egomaniac, know-it-all. Get help kid, or you’ll end up even more bitter in a decade.
Dynex
Seriously, who are this guys gay friends? I’d be mortified if I had a friend throwing me and his friends under the bus in a public interview like this. Of course, I don’t really believe he has any gay friends and made up all these dramatic exagerations for dramatic purposes in a dramatic interview.
Criteria First
All I got out of that whiney/presmptous interview is:
*Don’t make friends with this kid
* Anything you reveal to Jason Wise will be published for his amusement in a self indulgent interview he does
* He makes a terrible friend.
If I were supposed to walk away with something else, something actually poignant from this childs answers, I’m sorry. Fail.
Los Angelino
Why do so many gays think it’s cute or cool to belittle fellow gays, belittle the entire community and bash on gays who are different from you? As a black and Latino gay individual. Most well adjusted black folks don’t go bashing on other blacks for how “black they act”…my latin side of my family has all sorts, from the cholo Dodger fans who are my cousins and proudly say they are cholo, to my aunts and uncles who hate baggy pants and act refined to a fault. We all accept and love each other. We don’t see one as less black or more latino for their mannerisms. We are under the same umbrella. Nor do we highlight bad examples of our communities. We instead highlight the beauty of differences and our plight.
I see this disturbing trend, notably within gay youth, who put down other gays almost as a way of feeling -less gay- and better than others in LGBT. What a flawed, hypocritical and oppertunist approach. Karma exists and if your compassion only extends to your own needs, all while pinning gays against each other…your karma will catch up with you.
Real Talk
Yes, if we could all just be a little more “straight ACTING”…
If we could all just BLEND IN with heteros.
If we could all just be less identifiabley gay.
If we could all just adjust our happiness and existence for the comfort levels of heterosexuals………
THEN and truly then could we attain “equality”
To the gay crowd hyper concerned with the feelings of hetros, your notion of equality is a glorified version of staying closeted. YOU role play a straight-washed versio of yourself, but don’t demand the rest of us live our lives with one foot in the closet and one foot out.
Steve-ATL
There’s 7 billion people on this planet. No two people were made the same, so that includes butch lesbians, and fem gays, and lesbians who don’t want to compete in beauty pageants, or gays who are overtly masculine…and guess what? they all have the right to be who they are. Some people are inherently more fem, and I resent the idea of living in a country (a tax paying country) in 2012 where you have to get premission on how to walk and talk and what to wear based on how others want you to.
To any gay who takes issue with our fem gay brothers and butch lesbian sisters, do some soul searching. You DO NOT represent the moral fibers of that rainbow flag. Learn your history. Don’t celebrate your ignorance and spew talking points from bigots (“why do they have to wear it on their sleeve” as they sheepishly drivel) Shame on your ignorance.
What the f**k
Just looked up a few head shot images of Jason and I’ve got to tell you Jason ….if you think you look masculine(and not an effeminate twink) that is,unfortunately,another delusion to add to the list.If those eyebrows are not deliberately shaped ….that’s unfortunate for a wannabe “straight acting” queen.Sorry…but there it is. So you’re really not passing at all.
Cool breeze
Gays really need to stop dictating how other gays act. This “str8 acting” era needs to be retired with disco. The superiority of machismo “straight acting” is the worst cancer to our community and has cost us lives. It’s costing us the lives of our gay youth, some who are innately effimene. They are being themselves and not harming anyone. You can not promote equality and your civil rights in one sentence, then demand others change their natural behavior. That doesn’t go. The whole idea behind being out is being you. That means being as masculine as you naturally are, as indifferent as you are, as feminine as you are, as timid as you are…whatever you are, you are entitled to be that without backlash.
That some in the gay community demand people respect them for being gay but disrespect others for being fem is laughable and the very reason we continue to be discriminated. If we can’t respect our own diversity, how dare we demand hetrosexuals respect us for being gay?
NYNiceDude
Hyper masculine -str8 acting- gays are a leading contributor in so many gay kids killing themselves. Notice how I refrained from saying all masculine gays. Just the ones who put on a facade and taunt fem gays. They are a plague in our community and do far more disservice than justice for the branch of acceptance and tolerance our community SHOULD pride itself in.
Kevin Mendoza
Jason Wise,
You’re an uneducated, ignorant individual who is nothing more than a kid who had homophobia embedded in your head, and no matter how hard you try, you can’t quite shake that homophobia off. More tragic is- you don’t recognize your own brand of homophobia. It’s all but common in kids like you. Kids who don’t know their own communities history. Who don’t know history period. Who just spit out catch phrases and statements you’ve heard said by equally self loathing gays on some hook up site. Your rejection of a segment of gay population does not make you more straight, or less threatening to homophobic straights. It just makes you lost, and looking for a home, in a deep identity crisis. Don’t take it out on those who’ve discovered who they are and make no apologies for it. But do open up a book once in a while. Ignorance isn’t an appealing trait.
Timmeeeyyy!!!
Reading the whole article, he doesn’t seem like such a bad 22 year old after all.
Queerty, I understand that creating controversy gets you page impressions and click-throughs, but it’s an incredibly dishonest way to get traffic, and it certainly isn’t helpful to LGBT causes. There are lots of real controversies to cover without having to manufacture them.
TJ
His last quote was about one of the most offensive and insulting things I’ve read from a gay person. That he would so publically display such ignorance and lethal words is what is most disturbing. Seriously, even my straight roomate read this “actors” quotes and said “dang, he’s uptight”
He sounds really into himself, and sadly not at all into realizing why some celebrate who they are. In a world that constantly challenges us to all be the same.
ProudDad
Yes, Jason Wise. In a country where some 80% of LGBT kids are harassed on a daily basis in school, gay kids are the leading homeless population in many streets, gays experienced horrible hate crimes, can be fired in 30 states for being suspected of being gay, can be kicked out of their own homes and can’t experience any rights with their long term partners…we just need to simmer down and stop having so much pride. You’re a straight apologist, and once you and your type can take your tongue out of that straight but hole, you can come up for air and see the pain and rejection many gays do endure. Good for those who are unapologetically themselves, especially considering the pain they endured to get to that point of self acceptance.
Chadboy
Good luck getting work from the OLD gay producers, directors and casting directors that work in entertainment. As for rolling eyes….I rolled mine when I saw his overly tweezed/waxed eyebrows. Give me a pair of angel wings any day over the overly plucked girly look.
Carson
“Super long comment that will do nothing but further agitate a pointless argument between our own community”
John
@ Jason: I don’t understand how the context changes anything, and please tell your friend that ‘a gay’ is truly shitty English.
Esculapio Mitiríades Torquedama de la Cueva
Sorry, but just as Step’n Fetchit types died out with the civil right movements, so (I hope) “glitter angels” will become a thing of the past as gays attain true equality. Being a silly little kid dressing in up in stupid costumes isn’t inherently “gay”; it’s just a silly little kid dressing up in stupid costumes.
Belize
@nature boy: That is a very beautiful thing to say. Thank you for that. 🙂
Scott
I think he should have gone with a different approach..what’s the harm in a few dudes wanting to dress up in a bit of glitter and fairy wings? However, there is a bit too much pride in many parts of the mainstream gay community. One: advertisements for pornography on every corner of every gay media site, magazine, and gay friendly street of every city in this country. Two: Image over substance.
If we want the rest of the world to take us seriously, we can’t display our gay lifestyles as being a gigantic orgy. Somebody please tell me I’m not talking out of my ass.
Jay
Real Talk-My thoughts exactly! Dan Savage is a perfect example of a gay man who just wants white gay men and LGBT people to blend in with heterosexuals. Then again he lives in a McMansion with his fugly husband and their adopted son. It only gets better for Dan Savage, not for LGBT youth and especially not for bisexual or Trans youth who he is bigoted towards.
As for this young guy he’s a fool.
Mk Ultra
This just proves that there needs to be MORE pride.
CJ
@Scott: You are sadly talking out of a misinformed area of your body, Scott. You and guys like you live in a deluded existence where you feel every gay person is a symbol. They are not individuals, or people, or even free thinking. They are symbols for the hterosexual counter part to look at an judge. Your proposed way of being dictates everything a gay person does has to be done with the approval of heterosexuals in mind. Every move, picture or action has to be done with great consideration for not ourselves, or the individual, but if it’s “comfortable for the hetero”
Your thinking is not only flawed but extremely unrealistic in approach and so unrealistic in reality. How about if you’re so concerned with what heterosexuals think of us. YOU live your life according to their exact rules. Do a random sample polling of all heterosexuals you know, have them create a laundry list of respectable behavior and live your life exactly according to them. But me and the many, many gay folks I know did not suffer opression and great injustice all to live as a SYMBOL and shell of ourselves just to get a thumbs up from strangers.
RilesRay
Scott,
Gay rights should not come at the expense of gay people altering who some of us are (flashy) to attain equal rights, anymore than black people should attain their civil rights for wearing white makeup. You want us to blend in, and beg for respect. Most of us are tax paying members of society, not harming anyone, living our one SHORT life for ourselves. If that includes hot pants, and making out..so be it. This is not Iran where that gets you stoned. And I agree with others, if you want others to change who they are to better represent you, then you have some issues that need attending to. And some serious soul searching to do.
Mario
It’s always fascinating hearing some, notabely the “straight acting” crowd within the gay community preach about changing who you are to be accepted. How is that any different than being in the closet? Gay men who are out and comfortable and even boldly so, owe nothing to reserved gay men who feel uncomfortable by that. That’s on you. You don’t want to wear fairy wings with glitter– don’t. But sitting on the sidelines and making catty remarks about gay men who do wear what they want, and dress how they want, and act who they are just makes you -Mr.Almighty Straight actor- the hormonal, catty, creep. It’s no one else’s responsibility to hold your hand and help you overcome Daddy issues.
IonMusic
@Esculapio Mitiríades Torquedama de la Cueva: Keep your machismo to yourself. There’s plenty of minority men who do adopt overly masculine ‘street’ culture as a norm. That too is a form of drag. Acting really hood, with pants dropped to your knees isn’t inherently part of said demographic, but definitely adopted by them at the Dominican Pride parades I passed by often. Do you take issue with that segment of population promoting that form of drag constantly and consistently in their airwaves? Or is that acceptable? Cuz fem gays are here to stay. Regardless of your homophobic machismo tude.
Cart Pizza
There will always be feminine gays prominent in the gay community as there will always be butch lesbians prominent in the lesbian community. Even if I may not identify with them, I love and accept them and have accepted them as PART OF the face of the LGBT. For some, I realize they are the face of the lgbt. So I get very defensive when people belittle a fem gay man or butch lesbian. To me, that is a direct slam at being identifiable and gay. Of course hetros would feel more comfortable to not be able to tell who was gay. That would require them to not know, or be confronted with or even exposed to being gay in their minds. They see a fem gay and automatically think gay rights are being promoted when that fem gay is just living out his life. I salute members of our community who aren’t gender normative conformist. Thye often are the visibility that shows some straights we are here, and there are gays in this groccery store, school, job, or coffee shop right next to you.
Scott
Wow..soul searching? LOL. Deluded? LOL. Could you guys be any more bitter? I lend a little opinion to the conversation and you both have no hesitation to bite my f*cking head off. What’s even more insulting (and disgusting for that matter) is that you’re trying to give the impression that you personally know who I am..JEEZ.
2 gay Dads take their kids to a street fair with men doing poppers and performing public oral sex..giant dildos in window displays for all to see..yes I’ve seen it, and yes there’s something wrong with it, and YES, the exact same thing goes for HETERO parents taking their kids to sexually explicit parades/festivals. Costume parties where you get to splash in glitter and show off your swimmer build torso? Again, NO. I think this Michael guy is being a bit of a dork for going public with that statement.
I’m not in the closet..I’m out to everybody, in fact..parents, friends, coworkers, you name it. I didn’t know that pantomiming Chris Crocker was the only way to waive your ‘In-The-Closet’ status. Please bitch.
But seriously, you guys are unbelievably bitter..eat a bag of Skittles or something.
H
Jason’s thought definitely needs a little more thought. But I understand what he might be hinting at. About how things are getting uncomfortable. When you fight for a right that the general population refuses to accept, it is going to get uncomfortable. That part about the fear though, what’s that all about. It’s time to be brave and without fear.
Martin
Seriously, when you are 22 you know nothing. You think you know everything, but you have no idea what life will do to you, and how it will shape your thinking.
It would be better if young people didnt have to flash their narrow minded opinions all the time, but that will happen only after pigs learn to fly…
In the meantime lets roll our eyes and stop taking him seriously…
JJ
@Scott: Scott, you sure got a lot off your chest in that dramatic rant. I’m inclined to believe others who called you out. Clearly it pinched an emotional nerve you weren’t ready to confront. If you need to knock fem gays to feel better about yourself, or need fem gays to go away to feel validated as a grown a$$ gay man, then you’re not really out, nor comfortable in who you are. Might wanna work on that.
Darron
God Bless the flamboyent gays and flashy drag queens who really LIVE life and have no shame in their game. I tend to be the more shy type but truly admire a guy who doesn’t bow down to how society dictates he act, and lives life for his bliss. Anyone who was actually comfortable in who they are could appreciate the principle behind that.
StormyHormy
Who gives a ish if you’re masculine? Gay men announcing their masculinity like it’s some badge of honor. STFU with that… It just screams “i’m insecure with being gay. Please accept me. I promise to behave.”
The straight acting crowd in the gay community wants to be seen as gay, but can quite shake off their love of the kock. That kock will get you guys everytime.
Dynex
@ stormyhormy
LOL that was awesome and your post made me laugh for a solid few minutes. So true and expresse in a matter fact way.
R.A.
@Scott:
You are absolutely correct.
Anybody having public sex on Pride Day does not give a damn about the movement. We have plenty of safe spaces for that kind of behavior where we’re not in danger of being videotaped for the nightly news.
No matter what end of the spectrum we represent, we all should know why we’re there.
Kevin
@Gregory: Why are you so worried what the boring straight community thinks of you? Pride is not about appeasing the straight majority and showing them we can be boring too. If the older generation had this lame attitude none of us would be where we are today. Pride is about letting loose and showing the world we can do what we want and they cannot hold us down – how sad/pathetic for members of our own community to try and do so.
2Deep
To prudish, JUDGEMENTAL gays sitting on side lines with a whistle in your mouth …waiting to blow it at all actions within the gay realm you don’t approve….take that whistle, swallow and choke to death already. No gay person WANTS to represent you, not at Pride, or parties, or parades, of carnivals. You’re too hidden in the hetero normative crack and licking their hole for us to even see you. Go get your collar shirt from banana republic, and join the ex gay conversion therapy program already. You’re not fooling anyone by trying to “straight us out”…Baby, we’re gay. We fought way too much to now be repressed by self loathing mo-s.
Selrah
I am confused.
1. Jason Wise did not mention effeminate or masculine in the interview. I do not see why it is the assumption being made here.
2. I do not understand what wearing angel wings and glitter has to do with pride.
3. I do not understand why grown men are wearing things typically marketed to parents with young girls.
4. I think there is some kind of double standard: if we saw a straight man wearing glitter and angel wings, we would question his sanity (or think he is a pedophile), but we do not do the same if the man is gay.
Steve-ATL
Selrah:
#1….you’re an intolerable, judgemental tool. Shove it!
#2…reread #1
#3…stop going to bath houses.
#4…read #1 again.
#5. STFU
MJ
@Steve-ATL: HAHAHAHA I just died. That. Was. Awesome!
Dynex
@Selrah:
1. But he did. And gays like him who like to paint themselves as more “normal” and “hetro-washed” have a deluded pattern of trying to pin flamboyent gays against their brand of str8 acting. They do it in bold ways, be it fem gay bashing, or subtle ways as Jason Wise attempted. Actually, inferring that gays who dress flamboyent are less deserving of fair treatment is not very subtle and pretty blatant anti fem gay phobia, prejudice and ignorance. If you subscribe to said viewpoint, own it. Don’t dance around it.
2. You don’t understand much about Pride. I’m sorry, I didn’t realize Pride came with an official uniform. PLease do direct me to the website that lays out our official Pride uniform. Thanks.
3.I don’t understand why straight men shop at Walmart. Or anyone shops there for that matter. I also don’t understand straight people letting themselves go and often dressing like slobs. Like the straight man I saw today at work who had stains all over his shirt. Pretty baffling. That shirt was marketed to a coin laundry facility.
4.I think there’s some kind of double standard: people like you so easily judge Pride for what you precieve as negative because you resent an event that celebrates ALL of us. Including loud and angel wing wearing gays. You choose to pin point them because you think they are an easy target not realizing, gays of today WILL come to bat for all gays. We won’t stand to see our fem or flashy or flamboyent brothers be a punching bag for your narrow mind.
Hope that answered everything. I know those were many, many words for such a small, small mind.
Tripp
I wish more of the hyper masculine gay crowd would take their own lives instead of the fem gays. I find fem gays, who may sport some glitter, far more thrilling and fun to be around than a bunch of insecure, loathing, bitter, judgmental- straight wannabe clowns who are so fearful to live their own lives, they resent any gay who’s not as chicken sh-t as they are. Hyper masculine gays serve one purpose, living miserable lives looking in on others and passing judgement.
IonMusic
@Selrah: Maybe you and this Jason Wise character actor should stop thinking so much, and actually live your own lives. Instead of dictating what others should wear, spend a little more time in your own lives, with your won families and friends. Do you have any? I ask only because someone who truly lived a fulfilled life wouldn’t go around judging others for leading the life they want to. Something to think about.
Selrah
@Dynex:
Thanks for your comment, even though you decided to attack me personally. All is good.
1. I don’t subscribe to any viewpoint, I’m actually quite objective when it comes to things like this. I didn’t read someone who was saying “flamboyant gays are less deserving”, I read it as someone who was being critical of his community.
2. You’re right, it doesn’t come with an official uniform, but I didn’t imply that it did. What I implied was that I truly can’t see the connection between what one wears and pride. I am black, if I sagged my pants, should that make me proud that I am black? No.
4. I resent nothing. I am not the predator you are trying to paint. You assumed because I am critical, that I walk around judging, berating and putting down my fellow man. You couldn’t be further from the truth. I see it as me being critical of a community I am a part of. For instance, you have a best fried, you are loyal to this friend, yet you are able to tell them the truth when they are wrong or point out something to them without putting them down, berating them or casting them off because of it. I am capable of being critical and protective at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.
I will say one thing, the discussions on this board are really emotional. The words chosen to express oneself are filled with emotion, and not much objectivity. This leads to personal attacks and a lack of good civil discussion.
IonMusic
@Selrah: Actually, seeing how as you are black, a lot of connection could be made to your disdain of fem gays or calling them out in the manner you do. Black culture is very much into maschismo mentality in that, there’s one uniform manner for men to act. Very little wiggle room when it comes to black men and how one should act. To the point where many men in urban areas adopt an almost drag caricature of “street” mannerisms. I think if we really want to be critical thinking, we should examine your past and upbringing and correlate it to your resistence to celebrate the different mannerisms and styles of different gays. You’d feel more comfortable if all gays were as “normal” appearing as you?
Terz
It’s always interesting to me, the greatest push back toward differences in the community come from gay black men. You would think if ANYONE could be more tolerant of gays not being gender normative, or all looking the same, it would be a gay, black man. But nope. There’s not much you can do with culturally being raised to believe “fem gay will get you killed”
Sad
Doug Collins
@Selrah: What you see as being “critical” other rightfully see as being pompous, and critical in a time when we’re already being criticized enough for who we are? Critical in a time when the outside is demanding we all act according to how they wish? Critical in a time when our focus should be less on our differences and more on our pursuits? That sense of criticism in this most fragile time for our community should hardly be celebrated. You wouldn’t be critical of your people amidst their civil rights battle when they were down. You’d want to unite them, not give an example of some make-belief double standard where you paint straights as being victimized by gays. You are no champion or hero for that post you made or your critical thinking. You’re just another dime a dozen gay person angry at the community, for whatever reason, and your anger is all misdirected. So you choose to sit and be hyper critical of a community that just wants to BE. You’re approach and critical thinking is no different than the homophobe who is critically…critical of how we lead our lives. You tell us to cover up. They tell us to go back in the closet. You’re both barking orders at lives that don’t concern you, harm you, or are yours. That you can’t grasp that and actually pat yourself on the back for your seld proclaimed critical thinking is the exact kind of road blocks and diversions we as a community need to ignore. You do very little to contribute and a great deal to divide. Know that. And don’t ever convince yourself otherwise. Hope that was blunt enough for you.
Selrah
@IonMusic:
I would like to stay on topic, but since this is the second time you have addressed me personally (and not my points), I will respond:
1. I do not know what “black culture” is on a personal level, because: I do not listen to rap music, I do not sag my pants, I do not use the “N” word, I do not actually have any black friends (some associates, but most of my friends are Hispanic, Asian or White).
2. You have assumed because I am black that I grew up in an urban area. This is wrong and irrelevant to the points I have made.
3. My upbringing is also irrelevant to the points I have made, and I am able to see what I was taught from what is reality. In that too, I am critical.
I really feel like all of this is irrelevant to this article.
@Terz:
Can you show me where I said I was raised to believe “fem gay will get you killed”? I didn’t and I wasn’t, but I would like you to show me, please. This is what we call a hyperbole.
Address the points, not the person.
Modestmousefan
@Selrah: That’s just it. There’s really nothing for you TO criticize. Gay men don’t wear clothing to Pride that is symbolic of being gay. They wear different clothing for different reasons. Some because of comfort, some because it’s a symbol of how free they can be, some to celebrate their not being opressed anymore, and for others it’s about a shirt that promotes a specific message. SEE….freedoms. Choices. Rights. PRIDE. And let’s not pretend for one second that urban festivals across the country don’t have 95% of men wearing saggy pants. They do. Might not be PC to say so. But they certainly do. Of course, if we pointed out the ridiculousness of going to a Dominican Pride, or African American Music festival (like the one in Long Beach) and seeing so many grown men revealing their boxers in their baggy pants, we’d all be deemed racist. For you to make bewildered commentary at how bewildered you are gays can dare dress flamboyent, well that’s just you being critical in thinking. Not so much. More like over analyzing why and how people can dare not dress as you feel they should.
IndieMusicBird
@Selrah: What and why is there even criticism toward what others are wearing to an event they are attending to celebrate their personal liberation and freedoms? That is the sole purpose of the event. To wear what you please and not be judged for it. For you that ha a different meaning than the next guy. For some, it’s a suit, I’ve seen people dress formal, I’ve seen people sport shirts with activist messages or a community program they were involved in, and for others it was simply about being goofy, free spirited and costumey…which invited some glitter here and a bow there and a wing here. See…freedoms, choices, right to be who you are. Tht is indeed all linked to Pride and it’s message to embrace who you are, no matter how you are. That is a beautiful message. One that some don’t take lightly. And policing the gay community, or attempting to, a community that fought pretty valiant efforts to finally be themselves, isn’t going to go over so smoothly. Instead of asking US why that is, you might want to do some reflecting and ask *yourself* why that is.
Sunshinestar
@IndieMusicBird: So well said! I actually copy/paste your entire message and saved it. Right on the money!
Michael L.
@IndieMusicBird: Marry me. You nailed it, so much better than I or anyone else could.
Selrah
@IndieMusicBird:
Thank you. I enjoyed everything you said, right up until you said “And policing the gay community”. Policing requires effort, all that I have said are observations of mind. No much effort required, but the assumption on here is that my thoughts are also my actions, which is inaccurate.
Honestly, I am grateful for the first part of your post. It gave me a bigger understanding.
dailyposter.
@IndieMusicBird:
I think of all the comments on here, yours probably came closest to really summing it up perfectly. This whole wrestling match of some gays flexing their muscle to other gays is just the misdirected anger some in the community have about the refusal of others to not be conformist. To not be tied to. To be who they want to be, regardless if that’s reserved or extroverted and flashy. That’s what the rainbow flag stands for. It’s not our job to make others register that. And certainly not our job to explain why we like the styles and fashions we do or how we dress.