I can’t remember the last time I read Dear Abby, besides about six months ago at my mom’s cardiologist’s office, and I can’t even remember what the matter was about. But this, ahem, Dear Amy caught my eye because, well: cheating husband and father, who’s cheating with the husband of his wife’s good friend. Now this is my kind of advice column!
“Distressed” writes:
After 20 years of marriage and three children, it turns out that my alcoholic husband is gay. He has been with literally dozens of men over the course of two decades. In the meantime, I have been a dutiful wife and good mother who never saw it coming. I have divorced this man, and I am picking up the pieces of my shattered life. My oldest child (18) knows the truth; the two younger ones, ages 9 and 12 do not. Currently my “ex” is sleeping with a married man who also has children. The wife of the man he is involved with is a close friend of mine. Should I tell her? Also, when, if ever, should I tell my younger kids the truth about their dad? He will not tell them, and so I have to decide what to do.
So what advice does Amy have? Tell the friend. Then go get tested for STDs. Well, the response is a bit lengthier than that, but it does include the suggestion the woman “should disclose [to her kids] their dad’s sexuality when you think they’re old enough to understand it. They may hear about this and figure it out, so it’s best if you truthfully answer all of their questions and then do your best to be honest, calm and reasonable when you are with them.”
Hmmm, I dunno. What should Kelly Preston do?
How about we take this to the next level?
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mrbill
Tell the ex and cheating husband they have 30 days to come clean to unsuspecting wife or she will tell the tale. DO NOT TELL the kids until they ask or Dad tells him self
orpheus_lost
Wow! There’s nothing hotter than 20 years of sex with a “dutiful” spouse!
Seriously, going on the same one sided info that Ask Amy used in feeling qualified to give out advice on this matter, I’m going to do the same:
Any wife who feels her role in the marriage is to be dutiful very likely didn’t want to suffer through any more sex than absolutely necessary to spit out three kids – and judging from the gap in their ages it probably wasn’t very often at all. I’m guessing, which is all Amy is doing as well, that she purposely married a guy who wouldn’t put too many demands on her and she turned a blind eye for 20 years until she found out he wasn’t just fucking other women. In other words, this dutiful wife isn’t pissed that her husband was fucking around, she’s disgusted that he wasn’t fucking around in the Leviticus approved manner.
Based on finding out that he was willing to leave her alone because he preferred sex with a man (OMG!), she now wants someone to give her cover as she does her fucking best to ostracize her husband from his kids and his community. This is where Amy comes in. All she has to do is paint a picture of a drunk fag who has cheated for years and she knows that this “advice” columnist will tell her what she wants to hear – or more likely hold up to the few who tell her what a cruel, vindictive bitch she is for smearing this guy and using their kids as weapons.
And there’s the other side of the coin. Of course, the best advice probably lies in what neither Amy nor myself mentioned. Get that dutiful wife and those kids into non-Christian therapy, divorce the husband so he can be the person he needs to be, tell the friend because she should be tested (whether her husband was fucking a man or woman), and finally, everyone get on with your lives because two human beings having sex is normal and not the big fucking problem this woman wants it to be. If this wife really ever loved her husband she’d try to be supportive of him as he enters a new and very scary phase of his life. Instead she’s just going to make sure she hurts him as much as possible.
orpheus_lost
Ha! Stupid me! I just realized this sounds exactly like the premise of “Moral Oral.” LOL!
Shannon1981
Of course the unsuspecting wife deserves to know, but this woman is a bitter bitch who is looking to do a hatchet job on her ex husband, and wants to use her kids as leverage. Not cool.
cybernoelie
Amen orpheus_lost!
He probably drinks because he’s been suffering for years (or decades) as he repressed his true sexuality out of fear.
My anecdotal ‘research’ on this subject is that ex-wives rarely are supportive, very rarely in fact – from my own experience and from the experiences of friends who were in the same situation.
I wish him all the best.
justiceontherocks
The younger kids will figure it out when dad, who is white, introduces them to their Uncle Daniel, who is black.
Bubba
Hopefully, future generations of gay closeted men won’t feel the need to marry women and have children with them. It rarely ends well for anyone.
Spike
Wow, so the dutiful wife wants to make it all about her.
She isn’t asking for advise, she just wants to be ok when she does everything possible to destroy the ex- in the mean time destroying the lifes of everyone else around, and be able to blame it on him. Typical female relationship mentality.
Seldom if ever take personal responsibility. I mean, come, if she was ‘dutiful’, she can’t be held accountable for being a complete idiot while her obviously gay husband seeking sex and companionship.
JimBo
The ex wife may be surprised to find out everyone already knows or does not care. I can tell you from experience that is what happened to my ex wife. Move on girl move on
lynda
@cybernoelie: I am in the same situation and it is very difficult to understand. My children are very confused and I have seeked help and not taken them away from their father or caused any negative talk to them in our seperation. Their father brought in a new (male partner) while we were still together and has nover discussed the situation with me or them and thinks it will all work all on its own?
TheRealAdam
@Spike: So you blame her and basically call her spiteful because she has been deceived? She is the victim, in this case, because she was with a dishonest spouse from the beginning.
I understand that the tendency is to take the side of the gay male, simply because of the history of such “marriages” as this and what they indicate about our society and gay acceptance, but to try to say that she is wrong for feeling the way she does, and wanting to tell her friend of the situation, is ludicrous.
cybernoelie
@lynda:
I’m sorry you find yourself in that situation Lynda.
It won’t all work itself out by ignoring it. He can’t just bring in a male partner with no warning etc. but then he probably lived a long time in denial and it takes time to break that mindset.
Coming out for me at 41 was extremely traumatic, the ‘reluctant homosexual’ I called myself even though I’d had many gay ‘encounters’ and had been on a gay forum for years (under the guise of giving tech support to members). I grew up in a poor neighbourhood with a serious Catholic education. I didn’t know of any gays until my 30s (seriously).
Be patient but firm with your husband. If you don’t condemn him for his orientation (or repressing it) let him know but the ‘normal’ rules of engagement still apply (personal responsibility and accountability etc) and he (and you) must follow them if you are to get through this time with the least amount of damage possible.
xx
Shannon1981
@TheRealAdam: Difficult situation, and you have every right to be resentful and angry, but, two things:
1) Do not condemn your husband for his orientation. He can’t help being gay any more than you can help being straight.
2) Be sensitive with the kids. Explain, don’t hide. I am sure you’d rather they hear it from you than on the streets. Out gay people are rarely discreet about our encounters, and it is a very real possibility that your husband’s activities are common knowledge in the community. Tell them. You aren’t protecting them by keeping it a secret.
Shannon1981
oops, that was for Lynda, sorry @theRealAdam
GeriHew
Clearly “gay” doesn’t always mean homosexual.
McMike
@GeriHew: Bravo, Geri, for proving yourself to be an idiot since, um, it’s the heterosexual in this story that isn’t all gay and happy about the situation.
Oprah
“it turns out that my alcoholic husband is gay. He has been with literally dozens of men over the course of two decades. In the meantime, I have been a dutiful wife and good mother who never saw it coming.”
Really? Never saw it coming? Dutiful wife, you say? Wow, you paint such a terrific, innocent picture of yourself, well, i just have to believe you. Poor,miserable scorned bi!tch. Yeah,go tell your friend her husband is also gay. Share the misery, have some company. Heck, maybe get revenge? I dare you to french kiss the other wife.Wait, maybe you are so ugly,you turned your husband gay, and get this—turned him alcoholic too. LOOOOL
afrolito
I absolutely loathe closet cases who destroy lives with their pathetic self loathing and weakness. I hope the wife tells tells her best friend ASAP. They are the victims, not their spineless husbands. They should also tell the children as well.
TheRealAdam
@Oprah: It’s attitudes like yours that make the rest of us look so selfish and condescending. Being gay doesn’t absolve you of personal responsibility from those you LIE to and HURT. The anger you direct at the wife in this situation, really shows the type of person YOU are.
And you are absolutely revolting.
Oprah
TheRealAdam @LOL
OMG? Revolting? That is a strong word to address to a perfect stranger like moi? I am sorry, sir, but i demand an articulate apology. LOL Was that really necessary, TheRealAdam? I mean, what attitude are you talking about? This woman writes a total stranger– a ‘dear Amy’ person, to bad mouth the father of her children. First, she speculates that he slept with ‘dozen’ of men, then says he is ‘alcoholic’, and then he is ‘gay’, the tone used in the word is not in our usual brotherhood gay, But –he is gay, with a plague. She basically bad mouths him left and right, and somehow remains to paint a dutiful St. Mary picture of herself. Can you feel my frustration, and my profound urge to blurt the word bi!ch? LOL
justiceontherocks
@TheRealAdam: C’mon. You don’t think the wife is being vindictive, playing the pity card, and wanting to meddle in a relationship that is none of her business? (Never a good idea under any circumstances, BTW). Do you really think she had no clue? And that she’s doing all this for the children? C’mon. I think Oprah has her pegged pretty well.
TheRealAdam
@Oprah: I never said anything about who she is, but the way you are responding to her is completely uncalled for. And I did not pick up on her “badmouthing” him, since her posting was anonymous (you do know what that means, don’t you?), but I did pick up on her sheer disappointment with him lying, cheating, and essentially stringing her along in a sham marriage. Now, you ask me who I should feel sorry for in this situation.
Better yet, don’t. You’ve already proven your, shall we say, insufficient capabilities.
TheRealAdam
@justiceontherocks: No, I don’t think any of that. If that is her best friend, and their husbands are swapping fluids, how is it NOT her business? That’s what being a good friend is all about. And regardless of her children, it’s her prerogative how she wants to proceed with the discovery of her husband’s sexuality and infidelity.
I honestly cannot for the life of me understand the way some of you think. It’s like you have absolutely no principles at all.
justiceontherocks
@TheRealAdam: Because it’s none of her business. Maybe the other woman already knows. She probably does. She may not want to know. She probably won’t believe anything Ms. I’m Mad As Hell and I’m Not Gonna Take It Anymore says. The woman will almost certainly lose her good friend, and for nothing. If she’d really concerned about the health implications of her ex-husband putting it to this guy, there are many better ways to get there.
And no matter what you say, none of this can ever be “regardless of the children.” You are a piece of work to say other people don’t have principles and then write something like that.
just sayin
Was this one of Queerty’s blind items? I’m guessing Charlie Sheen.
TheRealAdam
@justiceontherocks: None of that matters if it is a best friend. There is a personal link here. And your comment about her potentially losing her friend is, frankly, irrelevant, since truth should supersede the fear of potentially severing ties. A good friend would understand and know that. Hence, my point about principles.
The children are not some sort of delicate beings who will crumble at the thought of finding out sexual truths about their father. At any rate, “Amy” has even cautioned the mother that they should be told at the right time. Your apparent need to protect them from the truth means you’re using the same kind of absurd rationale that prevents children from learning about homosexuality at an early age, as if it would somehow taint or corrupt them. That is a right-wing, bigot argument that you are simply endorsing in a different scenario, and it remains faulty.
justiceontherocks
@just sayin: Very good.
@TheRealAdam: Not very good. You ASSUME that the wife being cheated on doesn’t know, wants to know, and wants a good friend to tell her. Those are not necessarily true, and if they aren’t they blow up your theory.
I’m not saying the children are “delicate beings” (they may be); many times they are awfully perceptive and know a lot more than parents think. What I took objection to is you saying they were not relevant. They are the foremost concern.
I understand why the ex-wife is pissed. Who could blame her? Her ex-husband did the wrong thing. I just think her approach is more likely to compound than ameliorate the injury.
TheRealAdam
@justiceontherocks: I have no reason to doubt that she didn’t know, and I also have to reason to admonish her anger whether she knew or not. You appear to be missing that aspect.
And it seems to me that you are more concerned with protecting and encouraging the continuation of the relationship between these two conniving men, than allowing both women to know the truth and respond to it accordingly. So, it is clear where your sympathies lies. I’ll go ahead and file you in the same category as that contemptuous insect, “Oprah.”
justiceontherocks
@TheRealAdam: @TheRealAdam: Are you intoxicated? I clearly typed that the ex-husband did the wrong thing. As long as he pays his child support I could care less about him.
You are the champion of making assumptions, most of them false or unknowable. That’s a mental device often used by simple people. So is using terms like “contemptuous insect” for a person about whom you know nothing.
Feel free to insult me all you like. Considering the source, it’ll be a compliment. Have a good evening.
Hj
I’m glad she’s outing the lover. It’s 2011 not the 1950’s. There’s no excuse for being closeted. I hope her tests come back negative.
TheRealAdam
@justiceontherocks: I’m not insulting you, I’m refuting you.
justiceontherocks
@TheRealAdam: No, you weren’t. You were trying to, but you aren’t up to it.
You need to learn to disagree with people respectfully. If you don’t I make sic Oprah on you.
Have a nice day, have a nice weekend, have a nice life. If I ever detect brain activity from you maybe we will chat again.
GuidoXNJ
Hopefully one day LGBT people will be able to marry the person they want to marry and do not feel coerced by society into living a lie. Sadly, many LGBT people tried to marry the gay away by getting married to a person of the opposite sex. This guy was married for 20 years so we know that he is a victim of the beliefs and pressures of his generation.
So many people act like gay people set out to destroy the lives of poor heterosexuals by marrying them. The reality is that many LGBT people who marry people of the opposite sex do so due to the pressure to conform coming at them in all directions. This is really a sad story all around (assuming that it is true and not fiction for the column) because all parties were cheated by homophobia. The guy never got to have a partner of his same sex, the woman married someone who is gay. She is collateral damage created by the closet and all those imprisoned by it.
natalie portmenteau
Many of the comments here remind me of just how self-righteous married-men-who-then-come-out can be. I dated one for a while and all he seemed capable of was focussing on how difficult life had been for him and how no one could possible comprehend it or have it as difficult as him. Of course, the fact that he jetted out of his family’s life (5 kids) just as soon as he found the “partner of his dreams” never seemed to strike him as selfish or self-absorbed and it never seemed to give him pause to wonder on the impact of the family he left behind. Then he tells me that he is convinced one of his sons is gay, said son is getting married and dad doesn’t think he can/should intervene or say anything.
Yeah, it’s always the wife’s fault, isn’t it…
Yuki
I don’t understand why people don’t think the other woman should be told.
It’s possible she knows.
It’s also possible she /doesn’t/ know. “Distressed” shouldn’t be attacking her ex-husband for his homosexuality, but if he’s sleeping around (and thus exposing himself, and by extension, “Distressed”, her friend, and her friend’s husband) to STDs, they deserve to know.
The way the letter reads to me is disappointed and hurt, but not malicious. She seems to be genuinely concerned that her husband might be spreading STDs, and the other person’s husband could be lying to his wife.
Shannon1981
@natalie portmenteau: I know you and other women like you have a right to be angry and hurt, and yes your lives were forever changed- and not in a good way. But until you live in a society where your very existence is maligned, you can’t understand. Your comment reeks of bitterness and resentment toward gays in general. Your husband did not only himself, but YOU a favor by refusing to live a lie. Why would you want to stay in a marriage with a gay man? It makes no sense. You should be thankful he was strong enough to be truthful with you and himself in the end.
TheRealAdam
@justiceontherocks: Whatever. Like I said, this is a matter of principle, and most of you seem to have zilch. You are playing the woe-is-me gay card and taking the gay side of this situation, the scorned wife be damned. That is deplorable, no matter how you slice it. I’m sorry but I can not and will not hop on that bandwagon.
GeriHew
@McMike: @McMike: You’ll just have to try and excuse me because I’m one of those “confused” bisexual people.
GeriHew
@GuidoXNJ: Most of the Bs in LGBT will marry someone of the opposite sex and it doesn’t have to be a disaster. And the Ts in LGBT – a lot of them only want to marry someone of the opposite gender.
Aaron
@GeriHew: Alot of the Bs in LGBT, especially the men, marry and have children and carry on having sex with men as well as women while maintaining they are straight…. and then when this secret comes, they are verbally beaten into submission by their wives, and no doubt boards like this, into coming out as gay. Our society, unfortunately, has a pervasive belief that if you have sex with a man, you are gay. No questions. This, of course, then has a ripple effect: other Bi men who are married and previously identified as straight, see situations similar to theirs, and come out as gay because its been so constantly reinforced that there is no in between. At least for men…. not really so for women anymore though, because its pretty much become mainstream that ‘fucccckkkkkk yea bro, girl on girl is HAWT!’ And god knows when the straight men near unanimously approve of something, it then becomes normal for society. Anyway… what was I saying? Oh yeah, about the marriage thing. All the gay men I know who haven’t ever been in a relationship (sexual or otherwise) wouldn’t be able to get it up seeing a naked woman, let alone do it enough to have numerous kids and have a seemingly somewhat normal marriage.
I apologize. That rant made little sense.
GeriHew
@Aaron: Your rant makes perfect sense. This whole thread is riddled with biphobic assumptions.
It would be funny if this woman’s ex husband turned out to having sex with her close friend as well as her close friend’s husband.
GetBalance
Should she tell her friend? You bet. Aiding and abetting homophobia in this case is unreasonable. I’d suggest she give the friends hubby a week to confess or bring the hammer down. The damage being done to everyone involved in secret far outdoes the damage done by speaking the truth. The former keeps the damage by a sham faux marriage alive and ongoing. The latter gets the cards on the table so all parties can move forward w authenticity and integrity regardless the “growing pains” all would endure. Whether the ex wife does it out of malice or not is irrelevant, it nonetheless calls i.e. criminal behavior to justice. Is it her place? Would you let a horse w a broken leg continue to suffer? The “marriage” is greatly suffering and as such should be put out of it’s misery. It’s the right thing to do. To expect her to hold a secret while everyone plays fear poker ad nauseum is never going to win the jackpot, which in this case is everyone growing up.
randy
Give me that friend’s number and I’ll tell her myself! I am so sick of these so-called bi men marrying women, all the while being the biggest whores around! Bi, my ass…..How come they’re always sleeping with other men, but rarely with other women?? It’s disgusting. The streets are full of married men walking around with their wives, having to avert the gaze of some guy they fucked the night before. Try walking down any street in Fairfield County, CT on any given Saturday and you’ll see what I mean. I made a choice over 30 years ago to not involve a woman in my sexual confusion. I have no compassion for men who didn’t do the same. They’re scum, and the women and families they harm have every right to be angry, hurt, and vindictive.
zaniell
LOL
After 20 years of marriage and three children, it turns out that my alcoholic husband is gay.
….”alcoholic husband”–and he’s still ur husband even tho u know he’s a drunk?
….then, u complain of “shattered life”?
sounds like a ghetto situation
srsly, just get a heavy object and bash him on the head a couple of times and u both go on jerry springer.
really, “3 children”… pple should stop breeding, the world is over-populated, but “alcoholic genes” get passed on!
ewe
The womans husband should tell his wife about himself and the one who knows should tell the two guys that if they don’t she will. Dishonesty is the ruin of all relationships.
Oprah
“If you don’t I make sic Oprah on you”
justiceontherocks HEYYYYY! What do u mean by this above quote? LOL
THEREALADAM,
I think you are naive and sweet. Maybe you should move out of your village, and live in the cities for a while. You just need a little bit of living and some adventurous spontaneity. Good luck. 🙂
FlopsyMopsyCT
In my opinion, a distinction needs to be made between younger and older generations of closeted men. While I generally share TheRealAdam’s positions regarding married men with who have sex with other men, especially with the situations of younger, closeted gentlemen, I do have a bit more sympathy for guys of older generations that didn’t come out to to society’s egregious discrimination against and condemnation of homosexuality. For younger guys who grew up gay in the 90’s and later, I think there is a lack-of-balls issue.
As the the question the author of this post posits, no, I don’t think this woman should tell the spouse of her husband’s man that her husband is gay, or having sex with men. Perhaps if the friendship between these women was long and strong, it might be a different situation, but I’d say it’s not generally a good idea. On its face, it looks like a good, morally solid idea, and it certainly is something that this friend should know. The issue becomes from whom should she hear it. This woman should deal with her own life and husband and let the other woman work it out for herself. Also, I am a big proponent of letting people’s private lives stay private until they choose to make something public.
As for the comments saying this woman is stupid and that it’s unlikely she “knew,” I think we tend to underestimate the deftness of closeted men to live double lives. I think it completely possible that she didn’t know. I doubt she’s been completely oblivious to a deterioration in their marriage as a result of the cheating, but she may have had no idea the problems were stemming from a situation of this nature.
GetBalance
@FlopsyMopsyCT
Upon fully re-eading the article correctly if you so choose, you may want to rewrite your comment as the two women involved in this story are “close”.
GetBalance
If there is still doubt the title to the article is also well…a….big clue. 😉
FlopsyMopsyCT
Ah good eye, oops. You are right. Then I would definitely change my opinion. It changes with caution, but it does change nonetheless. Thank you for pointing out the obvious that I stupidly missed.
One other thing after re-reading the author’s post: No where in this does this woman explain how she knows her husband is gay and cheating on her with her friend’s husband. You’d think she would have said she caught them in the act, or he told her. Personally, if I were the Amy lady, I would hold off advising her to tell her friend unless she is absolutely sure.
Sage Cat
@FlopsyMopsyCT:
I agree with you about empathizing with men of previous generations, but it’s still not an excuse.
Lack of balls? Being careful not to disrupt their children’s lives is not a “lack of balls” issue. Also, some of these men probably did not know that they were gay before their first experience.
WHAT? Are you suggesting that it’s not a good idea to tell the friend? By not telling her about her husband’s infidelity she is allowing this poor woman to be exposed to STDs! The truth hurts, but it may also protect her! Even if the friend does nothing- she can at least get tested and protect herself!
GeriHew
@randy: Bi your ass.
Even if bisexuality really didn’t exist we would probably still have homophobia. However it would be quite different in nature and probably a lot less common. For a start, situations like this one could quite simply never arise.
GeriHew
@Sage Cat: “By not telling her about her husband’s infidelity she is allowing this poor woman to be exposed to STDs!”
What you mean to say this cheating “gay” husband is still having heterosexual relations with his wife as well as homosexual relations with this other woman’s “gay” ex-husband?
What sort sexual of behaviour is this?
GeriHew
What sort of sexual behaviour is this? Is what I meant to say.
GeriHew
@Sage Cat: “Also, some of these men probably did not know that they were gay before their first experience.”
If this statement has any substance doesn’t it suggests that there may possibly be some gay men who don’t know they’re straight? Or that it really is possible to become an “ex-gay”?
jason
Stop playing the gay card for every single man who is caught in bed with another man. Have you ever considered that he may just be bisexually oriented? In any case, there is no excuse for cheating on your wife. If you don’t think you can keep your marriage vows, you shouldn’t be getting married in the first place.
jason
The bisexual orientation and cheating are two totally different things. Stop overlapping the two.
jason
Unfortunately, a lot of gay men think that gay rights is about permissiveness. Permissiveness means you can cheat and do “whatever feels good”. Well, I’ve got news for you. Gay rights was never supposed to be about permissiveness. It was never supposed to be about doing “whatever feels good”. It was never supposed to be about having “open” relationships.
The people who corrupted the gay rights movement with the permissiveness notion truly don’t belong to the pure form of the gay rights movement The pure form of the gay rights movement has a very moral basis.
BenFrankly
@orpheus_lost: Wonderful assessment. I would just add that it is obvious that this woman only cares about herself and not her children. My sense is that she would rather demonize their father and hurt her own children to get back at her husband, who was probably an alcoholic because he was required by a fucked up society to hide the truth.
GeriHew
@jason: Open relationships and cheating are two totally different things. If you are the sort of person (bisexual or not) who wants to have more than one lover at a time then you either have open relationships or you become a cheat.
A cheat is someone who breaks the rules of the relationship they’re in. It isn’t just monogamous relationships that have rules.
Hj
@BenFrankly: Go to Hell you stupid misogynist. Putting all the blame on the innocent. No one forced these closet-cases to get married.
FlopsyMopsyCT
@Sage Cat: Yeah, I’d characterize it as a “lack of balls” issue, although I realize that summarization is a tad crude. I am sure all of us younger people (in their twenties and younger) on this board have come across the closet-cases who claims they’re straight, but somehow still find themselves in bed with men every other week. Like I said in my original post, for men who grew up in the 50s, 60s and 70s, yeah I can see why they remained staunchly closeted. It was a wretched time for homosexuality. But, the modern day is a much different time than those past eras. In all honestly, I have no real issue with guys who remain closeted. My issue is with men who go to such far extremes to keep their sexual identity secret, such as marrying a woman, or worse, fathering children with that woman, and yet continue to cheat on their spouse. NB, I don’t include those couples who have an open relationship status. If I ever found out my grandfather did that, I wouldn’t get ruffled. If I found out my younger brother was doing that, I’d shoot him in his foot.
I certainly don’t mean to undermine the very personal decision of every gay man and woman as to when to come out. I know a lot of guys who wont do it because of their goofy parents, or fear that it will affect their jobs, or whatever else. But the social stigma, in at least most parts of the US, has largely changed, at least from what I’ve observed.
And no, I do not think she should tell her friend. I did say in a later post that if they’re really as close as the woman says they are, maybe that could change. Generally though, I’d advise against it. This in part has to do with a few personal experiences I’ve had with this kind of situation, and also due to my views on “getting involved” in other people’s business. Honestly, I don’t think it’s any of this woman’s business what her friend’s husband is doing with other men, plain and simple. Yeah, supposedly it’s with her own husband, but does that really change the situation all that much? And I certainly see the appeal; on many levels, I would think it admirable. But I still don’t think it should happen.
As for the STD thing . . . eh. . . maybe, maybe not. Is that really the issue here though? I get a little annoyed that as soon as two men start having sex, it’s an AIDs crisis or herpes extravaganza. If this were the opposite, and a supposedly gay men had cheated on his male partner with dozens of women, I don’t think too many people, in the advice columns or on this board, would be saying the jilted partner has a right to know because his slutty bi lover might have subjected him to STDs. Of course, it is always a concern, but in this situation, it’s a concern because it’s a man cheating with other men.
I like GeriHew’s rebuttal in 55, an interesting take that I never thought of when reading your response. In addition, I’d add that, while there are probably men out there who don’t know they’re gay (or bi or whatever) until after they get married, they are probably pretty few in number. I think most men have an idea from a pretty young age that predates any marital ceremony.
Sleeping with a man/woman, bro cheated!
I am quite disappointed with most people’s reactions. The only person I support here is @TheRealAdam. So if this was a bisexual or straight woman/man who thought she/he was gay and ended up cheating on their partner with the opposite sex, you’ll be insulting the cheater but because the cheater here is gay, everyone is calling the wife bitch because she is angry at her cheating husband (which I’ve never seen people not be angry at).
I agree that she should not attack the husband’s homosexuality and should not demean him for that. He can’t help being gay anymore than she can help being straight. This being said, she has EVERY right to be pissed off and feel betrayed, no matter whether she suspected he was gay or not. I doubt she would have stayed married just to have children, he’s not the only sperm carrier in the planet. And I can only assume that so I don’t know.
It’s important for all of you on this website to notice that you don’t know half the story so stop being ignorant and turn assumptions and suspicions into facts. You don’t know if she only had sex with him 3 times or every day. Who said “dutiful” meant “prude”? It seems to me like she means faithful, caring to him and the kid, supportive, loving, etc. And I don’t know that for certain, but you don’t either.
Cheating is cheating, I don’t care if you’re a gay man in a straight marriage. If he was sleeping around with men, that means he knew (if not that he was gay) that there was at least a possibility that he had another sexual orientation. He should have told his wife and I’m sure she would have been more understanding and it would have either avoided the children or it would have been easier for both of them to figure out how to tell the kids, with a unified front.
She will eventually get over this but in the mean time, like some suggested, I would say tell your friend about her husband, get tested (doesn’t matter that he slept with a man, when your partner cheats -with whoever- get tested!) and when she’s a little more calmed from this emotional turmoil, sit down with him to figure out how they are going to disclose this to their kid. I don’t think it’s her [sole] responsibility to this but if he vanishes (which will only highlight poor character), she should try and look for counseling on how to talk to your child about sexual orientation.
GeriHew
@Sleeping with a man/woman, bro cheated!: You say:”It’s important for all of you on this website to notice that you don’t know half the story so stop being ignorant and turn assumptions and suspicions into facts.” and yet you take the woman’s word for it that her ex-husband is gay. Well it’s true, we haven’t heard his side of the story – like whether he even thinks he’s gay.
Ok. Let’s get one thing clear here, the guy fathered three children and he cheated on the mother with men (only men?). Techinically he’s bisexual. Even if he always had to imagine he was having sex with a man in order to have sex with his wife – possible but not really that likely – then he’s still technically bisexual because he still managed to have sex with his wife. And any man who can manage to have sex with his wife can manage to have sex with other women as well.
She also says he’s an alcoholic – and people seem to just accept that. Well, maybe he is, and maybe he isn’t. Maybe he just likes a drink and she doesn’t. Maybe he likes sex and she doesn’t and that’s why he started cheating on her. Maybe his attraction to men is only sexual and his attraction to women is sexual and emotional (quite common in bisexual men) – and that’s why he only cheated on her with men because it didn’t feel so much like infidelty to him. Maybe he would have been better off with a woman who likes sex and wasn’t horrified that he was sexually attracted to men as well as her. And maybe his wife would have been better off with a straight man with a low libido. I’m sorry, but no woman who really enjoys sex with men is going to be fooled by a gay man who struggles to get it up every time he has sex with her over a period of 8 years or more.
Whatever, these two people brought three children into the world. Somehow I doubt that he wasn’t a reasonably good providor during much of their 20 year marriage. And I doubt that his children don’t love him. So rather than blame everything on his supposed homosexuality she could do worse than take some time to ponder on what she did wrong in their relationship as well.
I’m not in anyway condoning what he did. But she should stop damning him for who he cheated on her with.
GeriHew
@Sleeping with a man/woman, bro cheated!: You say:”It’s important for all of you on this website to notice that you don’t know half the story so stop being ignorant and turn assumptions and suspicions into facts.” and yet you take the woman’s word for it that her ex-husband is gay. Well it’s true, we haven’t heard his side of the story – like whether he even thinks he’s gay.
Ok. Let’s get one thing clear here, the guy fathered three children and he cheated on the mother with men (only men?). Techinically he’s bisexual. Even if he always had to imagine he was having sex with a man in order to have sex with his wife – possible but not really that likely – then he’s still technically bisexual because he still managed to have sex with his wife. And any man who can manage to have sex with his wife can manage to have sex with other women as well.
She also says he’s an alcoholic – and people seem to just accept that. Well, maybe he is, and maybe he isn’t. Maybe he just likes a drink and she doesn’t. Maybe he likes sex and she doesn’t and that’s why he started cheating on her. Maybe his attraction to men is only sexual and his attraction to women is sexual and emotional (quite common in bisexual men) – and that’s why he only cheated on her with men because it didn’t feel so much like infidelty to him. Maybe he would have been better off with a woman who likes sex and wasn’t horrified that he was sexually attracted to men as well as her. And maybe his wife would have been better off with a straight man with a low libido. I’m sorry, but no woman who really enjoys sex with men is going to be fooled by a gay man who struggles to get it up every time he has sex with her over a period of 8 years or more.
Whatever, these two people brought three children into the world. Somehow I doubt that he wasn’t a reasonably good provider during much of their 20 year marriage. And I doubt that his children don’t love him. So rather than blame everything on his supposed homosexuality she could do worse than take some time to ponder on what she did wrong in their relationship as well.
I’m not in anyway condoning what he did. But she should stop damning him for who he cheated on her with.
Shannon
This more common than what you think men! I know LOTS/……..LOTS of married men sleeping with their best friends..
jachsy
@orpheus_lost: he cheated on her. if he wanted a man he should have said “i cant be in a relationship with you anymore. she has a right to be hurt you would be hurt if your spouse cheated on you.
Mattybear
A lot of assumptions are being thrown around and even though I’m a few days behind…..(had a nice weekend is all I will admit here)…I have to comment.
1. A lot of posters are assuming that the husband is bi. As an some-what older gay male I know that a lot of gay/married men who have had sex and kids with their wives. Its not as difficult as some believe to divorce the brain and sexual activity.
2. Homosexuals still marry opposite gender spouses, even in 2011! Especially if they are part of communities that are anti-lgbt or raised in families where they are brainwashed from a young age that they are expected to marry and have kids when they grow up. Think of it as a form of Stockholm syndrome. Or just do not understand what those feelings are, especially as a teen.
3. A lot of these wives do not realize that their husbands are gay. Look at sex education these days, there are people who know less about where babies come from today, than say when more people lived on farms. At least on a farm you get a basic sex ed class early.
I’m not defending the husband, just offering a different opinion and perspective. But unless we know more about the situation we should not assume things.
GeriHew
@Mattybear: So how many women have you had sex with then? And how many children have you fathered?
Forget about all the gay identified men you know who’ve married, had sex with their wives and made babies for a moment, and tell us how much of that sort of stuff you’ve done yourself Mattybear.
Has it ever crossed your mind that those guys might be telling you they’re gay because that’s what they think you want to hear?
palbe
Sorry, but why can’t anyone do anythng they want, why does it have to be “cheating” , Get over it, people all do what they want to do unless coerced.
Funny some people may change or alter relationships.
Big surprise ,i don’t think so. Some people want children only to satisfy the grands, nothing to do with anything else but that.Are we judging here? Stop it.
Jamie
@afrolito:
I agree. The wife is the victim here. A woman has the right to know if her husband is having sex with other men. A gay man could never give a straight woman a decent marriage. If you want to stay in the closet, that’s fine, but don’t deceive a woman by marrying her.