Can You Tell Which Twin Is Gay?
THE SHOT — I don’t know who these guys are, nor where or when this photo was taken, but: swoon. [via]
The one on the right is gay. I’m an identical twin. My twin brother is straight. No matter how butch I think I am, when we take a picture together, you can tell I’m the gay one. My smile is always a bit wider, and my eyes have a certain twinkle while his have a bit of that straight boy “duh” look to them. Not trying to be stereotypical. It’s just the truth. Plus…I agree with @Norman about the baggy pants…
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Yep, I bet it’s the cuter one on the right! Lol. Better hair cut/beard, more tan, nicer smile and no pants from the late ’80s!
Slightly more artistic handwriting too…but that’s a close call
BTW: check out the lady in back, in black with sunglasses. It looks like Maggie Gallagher 10 dress-sizes ago!
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Identical gay/straight twins are really fascinating, because they *should* be genetically identical, yet their sexual orientations aren’t, which means 1) either being gay isn’t genetically based or 2) identical twins actually have some genes that aren’t arranged in the same way. Discuss…
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Identical twins are a MAJOR sexual fantasy of mine.
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@jj: One word — epigenetics.
An organism’s environment affects the way its genes are expressed. While this might not completely account for the 1 gay/1 straight identical twin phenomenon, it certainly plays a large part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
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@JJ: (#17):
You’re very probably right! The science is still speculative: so there are still BIG “ifs”whether complicated attributes such as gayness or perfect pitch are due to genetic disposition—in-utero factors may also play a role. Science may have mapped the human genome, but it hasn’t yet been able to differentiate between what might may make one twin “express” certain genes versus inhibit them.
Then you have “mirror” twins: one left handed, one right. One gifted in science, another in the arts….But both have the same variant of colorblindness!
Bottom line? This will take years to sort out.
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No. 17 · jj wrote, “Identical gay/straight twins are really fascinating, because they *should* be genetically identical, yet their sexual orientations aren’t, which means 1) either being gay isn’t genetically based or 2) identical twins actually have some genes that aren’t arranged in the same way. Discuss…”
The simplified story is that genes encode how to build proteins. Some genes are used only at particular times, and there are mechanisms that turn gene expression on and off. The result is that the outcome is not necessarily deterministic.
In the identical twin studies, if one of the pair is gay, there is about a 50% chance that the other one is too, versus around 25% for fraternal twins. Its even less for siblings born at different times. So there is definitely a genetic component in one’s sexual orientation.
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No. 30 · Kyle wrote, “Does anyone besides me think that the guy on the right looks several years younger than the guy on the left?”
Part of it may be the lighting (skin color in the picture varies a bit between the two) but also the guy on the right might spend more time in a gym.
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@B: Truth. The identical and fraternal twin studies you mentioned are the main reason we know that genes play *a* part but not the only part in determining sexual orientation. The last time I studied this stuff, scientists were learning towards the idea that orientation is due to a mix of factors that includes genes, hormones, and early life experiences.
Which suggests that the whole pro-gay meme “We’re born this way” isn’t really supported by the evidence.
How about: Equality for all, whether we’re born with our orientations or not!
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The guy on the right. Based on my experiences, generally speaking, gay men do have a “prettiness” and cuteness to them, be it that twinkle in their eyes, or a warmer, more sincere smile. Not everyone, but yes, between comparing gay and straight men, from my vast experiences of having plenty of friends who are both of all ages, gay mens features tend to usually be more refined than their hetrosexual siblings. Just my opinion.
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@hmmm: You just said in one part of your rant that scientists believe all signs so far point to genes playing some role in the outcome (which is true)…then you end it by saying “so we’re born this way isn’t supported by the evidence”….how well did you do in reading comprehension at school?
If there’s any evidence to correlate genes and sexual orientation, regardless of what capacity environmental factors play, an ounce of relation between genes and sexual orientation is enough to make “born this way” a valid argument. Environmental factors may heighten your ability to tap into that want/desire, but the desire is dictated by genes and has to be there. YOU may have chosen to be gay, don’t end your rant with a foregone conclusion that we all did.
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@hmmm:
“scientists were learning towards the idea that orientation is due to a mix of factors that includes genes, hormones, and early life experiences.
Which suggests that the whole pro-gay meme “We’re born this way” isn’t really supported by the evidence.”
HUH? I agree with poster above. did you read what you wrote? cuz it doesn’t add up and is the ultimate condradiction. genes + hormones + early life experiences = no control over who you grow up to find inherently appealing. I can’t change my genes, nor my hormones, nor my abilities to control what happens around me as a child, so what you said actually reaffirmed the pro-gay slogan more. you may be coming at this with a slanted bias view, hence your reluctance to admit that.
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@hmmm: We’re not born this way isn’t supported by the evidence either. Best evidence is asking people who are gay how deep rooted their attraction to the same sex is, and how early it developed. The answer will be pretty similar to hetrosexuals, and yet we don’t question their sexuality, do we now?
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@jj: There is ABSOLUTELY no evidence to prove that being gay is genetically based. There is more evidence (such as twin studies) to prove that it isn’t.
It is more likely to be to sociological. Which actually brings more questions to play because you would think that identical twins would have very similar sociological triggers and experiences in most cases.
However, it really doesn’t matter what the cause is since we didn’t chose it and we can’t change it.
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@B: Based on a 50/50 shot? Seriously? That doesn’t prove any genetic aspect at all. When you also take into the account that most identical twins will be raised VERY similarly it even further discredits the research and lends just as much credence to nurture as it does nature.
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@IonMusic: Never once does he say he chose to be gay. No one “chooses” to be gay. What he said is that “we are not born this way” and go ahead and try to find one study (that has not been well discredited) that we are. There isn’t one.
The general leaning is that its a mixture of genetics (which has absolutely no proof) and early life experience (which is the more direct way to go since there is no proof of genetics and even more proof to the contrary since most “genetically” determined things run in families and being gay normally doesn’t).
Why do we need to use the “we are born this way” argument to begin with. Its more problematic than good. I don’t want to reach a point where science can determine the exact gene that makes us gay, figure out if a fetus will be gay or not, and influence a woman’s decision to abort a gay baby.
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@Jeffree: Please back up your claims with evidence. Please show me ONE study where they prove a link between genetics and homosexuality. Go ahead. I’m only asking for one.
Here is one that supports that it isn’t genetic. Now, go find me a single study (that hasn’t been discredited) the proves there is a gay “gene”. After all, since you are so much smarter than wiser than I, you should know them off the top of your head (despite the fact that they don’t exist).
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ne.....r/07032003
I almost passed my GED test the other day, then I figured I would never be as great as you anyways, so I purposely failed it.
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I have twin nephews. One is and has always been more effeminate than the other. Whether or not he’s gay remains to be seen. All we know now is he’s a fan of Ricky Martin and Xena. Oh, and he gets the crap kicked out of him in school, has been hospitalized for self-harm and his blood pressure is so high from emotional stress that he’s pissed blood.
You can argue that effeminate doesn’t equal gay. But it still proves that all things are not equal in the womb. He was still born more effeminate, probably due to the fetus getting a different level of hormones.
I have an Aunt who gave birth to twins prematurely. One died because his lungs weren’t as developed. Again, all things are not equal in the womb with twins and they can be born different from each other.
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LOL at you crabby queens biting my head off and impugning my reading comprehension skills.
What I was saying is: “We’re born this way” can be taken to mean 100% genetic determinism. And there’s no evidence for that b/c other factors also determine sexual orientation.
And, honey, no, I didn’t choose to be gay. In fact, I fought it and tried hard to not believe it all throughout high school. But I sure came around!
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@Daez:
Your lack of scientific comprehension is appalling. On formal testing, you would score at about the 4th grade level in science. Keep studying!
When you’ve read up on genetics and understood what having the human genome “sequenced” means and doesn’t mean, you’ll realize howthe talking points provided to you by your employer/religion are inaccurate and outdated.
Then you can stop being a troll and join the conversation.
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No. 38 · Daez wrote, “@B: Based on a 50/50 shot? Seriously? That doesn’t prove any genetic aspect at all. When you also take into the account that most identical twins will be raised VERY similarly it even further discredits the research and lends just as much credence to nurture as it does nature.”
Yes, seriously, but then you would have had to read the whole comment, which included the statement that for fraternal twins in which one was gay, the other had about a 25% chance of being gay.
If being “raised VERY similarly” was the major factor, then you should see the same number for identical versus fraternal twins. So, I guess you not only can’t read, but can’t (or don’t bother to) think!
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@B:
Daez is clearly using talking points provided to him by some organization or church: note how his spelling goes wonky when he’s off message.
He also obviously is unaware of the Danish twin studies in which twins who were reared apart were the focus.
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No. 32 · hmmm wrote, “@B: Truth. The identical and fraternal twin studies you mentioned are the main reason we know that genes play *a* part but not the only part in determining sexual orientation.”
You are replying to No. 25, which stated, “In the identical twin studies, if one of the pair is gay, there is about a 50% chance that the other one is too, versus around 25% for fraternal twins. Its even less for siblings born at different times. So there is definitely a genetic component in one’s sexual orientation.”
Did you think the term “a genetic component” had to be explained in simplified language?
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some of you are right and some of you are wrong about which one is gay.
I know because I’m the guy on the left :)
the main point my twin and I were making is that it’s totally irrelevant! :)
whether it’s a choice or not for someone to “be gay” or to express their homosexuality, they should obviously have the same rights! when it comes to rights, the fact that someone is gay should be irrelevant — and the REASON someone is gay should be even more irrelevant! it’s so obvious that gays deserve equal rights that posing the question unfortunately becomes a discriminatory act in itself.
it’s time for all the straight allies to come out of the closet!
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@Joseph:
Agreed. Here’s a lovely post about human rights, family loyalty, and straight allies…and most of the comments are about which twin is “cuter” (rude and objectifying) or who has a better understanding of genetics (laughable and obviously gleaned from Wikipedia).
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Some research has indicated the some “causes” (if that’s the best word to use) of sexual orientation have to do with the quantities, fluctuations, amounts, concentrations, timings, etc. of various genes and hormones IN UTERO. In otherwords, despite being GENETICALLY IDENTICAL, one twin can be straight, the other gay, because (for whatever reason(s)) certain genes/hormones were activated/fluctuated/timed a bit differently! (see “Gay, Straight, and the Reason Why”, by Simon LeVay)
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I think this is brilliant,both twins deserve equal rights and treatment,.. I’m the one of twin brothers and I’m the gay one,lol I’m not much effeminate but if we stand side by side I definitely am perceive as effeminate next to him, very minor differences make us unique and stand out from each other and those differences are gay cliche details that you can spot mainly on me(better hair, better clothing, better skin, more talkative,open and social etc,etc,)
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@dgrin: LOL. The same with me and my twin. If that really is you and if the poster “SS” is really your brother, kudos to you both. Your point is chrystal clear. I am happy your brother stood by you in the fight for equality. I know my twin would do the exact same thing. Maybe we should form some org. of identical twins (where one is straight and one gay) in the fight for equality…
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The one on the right is the gay.