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Marcus Bachmann Says His Patients Requested “Ex-Gay” Therapy. Here’s Why That’s BS.

Now that everyone’s starting to notice Michelle “rape clown” Bachmann’s anti-gay past and her husband Marcus’ “silver daddy” Bachmann’s ex-gay clinic, Marcus is saying that his clinic only offers ex-gay therapy when his patients request it. This is bullshit for several reasons.

First off, let’s start by examining Dr. Bachmann’s credentials. Here’s Bachmann’s creds from his practice’s website:

Dr. Bachmann received his Masters degree in education/counseling from Regent University located in Virginia Beach, Virginia. He received his Doctorate degree in clinical psychology from Union Graduate Institute located in Cincinnati, Ohio.

A web sleuth did some math regarding Bachmann’s Ph.D. and found the following:

On his website Dr. Bachmann states he’s had 23 years experience. Simple math brings us to the year 1988. If Dr. Bachmann’s Ph.D. was completed prior to this date, he might have graduated from The Union Graduate School which offered ONLY a Ph.D. in Arts and Sciences. If he graduated later than 1986, then he would have graduated from The Union Institute (1986), or The Union Institute and University (2001) and his Ph.D. would have been in Interdisciplinary Studies. If in fact Dr. Marcus Bachmann graduated from this institute, whatever it was named at the time, he would not have graduated with a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology. The ONLY doctorate in Clinical Psychology was offered after 2001, and the degree is a Psy.D. (Doctor of Psychology) and not a Ph.D. (Doctor of Philosophy).

Furthermore Michael Hamar of The Bilerico Project said:

the Union Graduate Institute in Ohio’s… doctoral program in psychology is not accredited by the APA which means its degree holders cannot be licensed in a number of states. Moreover, it specializes in limited residence and distance learning programs. That’s right, it is not a traditional university offering typical doctoral education program.

So either Dr. Bachmann has a Ph.D. in Interdisciplinary Studies or a doctorate in psychology from an un-accredited, non-traditional university. Either way, Minnesota state law allows unlicensed therapists to see patients, so he can legally counsel others, crappy psych Ph.D. or no.

Secondly, even though a therapist is supposed to address their patients’ needs, they aren’t supposed to do whatever their patient asks them to, especially when it involves using methods rebuked by three of the world’s largest professional psych organizations. The American Psychiatric Association, the American Counselors Association, and the American Psychological Association have all called “ex-gay” or “conversion” therapy harmful. In fact, the American Psychological Association even went so far as to say that ex-gay counseling harms those subjected to it and perpetuates an social atmosphere of anti-gay prejudice.

Bachmann wouldn’t indulge a patient who came in and said, “I want you to put me in a spider tank so I get over my arachnaphobia” or “I’d like you to help me get a frontal lobotomy so I can sleep better” (or maybe he would, I don’t actually know, but let’s assume he wouldn’t). He shouldn’t necessarily follow the patient’s desired treatment because the patient isn’t the trained expert, the counselor is. A therapist’s job is ultimately to guide the patient towards a responsible course of rehabilitative treatment. So why is Bachmann practicing counseling methods rejected by three of the world’s largest professional psychological organizations?

Third, homosexuality is not a mental illness that needs “curing.” The American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder in 1973 and The American Psychological Association Council of Representatives followed suit in 1975. Those who have issues with their homosexual feelings usually have underlying self-image issues such as negative thinking, self-defeating behaviors, paranoia, obssessive-compulsion, delusions of psychosis. Hearing constant anti-gay messages in our culture can saddle a gay person with lots of neurosis and the object of therapy is to help resolve those neurosis, not to alter a person’s sexual orientation.

Bachmann initially lied about his clinic offering ex-gay treatment—he said they didn’t when they obviously do. He is now also lying about the recording where he called gay people “barbarians” who need to be “educated”, saying the audio recording was “doctored” (though the blogger who originally posted the audio said, “I didn’t doctor a damn thing!”

Michele has stated that she’s very proud of her husband’s clinic. But as the media continues to explore why such a clinic receives federal funding, Mrs. Bachmann may find herself becoming less and less proud of the albatross it has tied around her neck.

Image via Truth Wins Out

By:           Daniel Villarreal
On:           Jul 15, 2011
Tagged: , , ,

  • 55 Comments
    • hf2hvit
      hf2hvit

      “SILVER DADDY”?!?!?! More like SILVER MOMMY!!!

      Jul 15, 2011 at 6:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • christopher di spirito
      christopher di spirito

      I would like to know how many of Dr. Marcus Bachmann’s victims, I mean, patients, have gone onto commit suicide? Does the state of Minnesota keep track of these statistics?

      Jul 15, 2011 at 6:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jimmy Fury
      Jimmy Fury

      I hope none of his patients are suicidal…

      Jul 15, 2011 at 6:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jimmy Fury
      Jimmy Fury

      damn. ninja’d.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 6:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scott Rose
      Scott Rose

      More hard reporting is needed in this matter.

      Firstly, we should know exactly when, if ever, “Dr.” Marcus Bachmann earned that Ph.D. from Union. What do the school’s records show and how do they compare to his claims?

      Then, all the government-sponsored payments to the clinic, whether federal, state or local, should be gone over with a fine toothed comb. Bachmann & Associates’ site very purposely blurs the issue of whether the business is a fundamentalist prayer center or a health care center. Here are some relevant questions: 1) If a licensed therapist advises a patient in a clinic setting that praying to Jesus will definitely alleviate their mental health care problems, is that fraud? 2) Do government health care programs pay when they are billed for “Christian counseling”? 3) If so, has that ever been challenged as a violation of the “no establishment” clause of the constitution? 4) If government health care payments may not be used for “Christian counseling,” then has Bachmann & Associates ever given a patient/client “Christian counseling” but billed for the same sessions as something else, in order to receive the government health care payments? 5) Could any current and/or former Bachmann & Associates’ client/patients fraudulently advised by B&A therapists that praying to Jesus would turn them heterosexual bring a legal action against Bachmann & Associates, which does present itself as a mental health care facility?

      Jul 15, 2011 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • christopher di spirito
      christopher di spirito

      @Scott Rose: Check this shit.

      I just tried to look up a “Dr. Marcus Bachmann” in the Minnesota Psychological Board and the site is down because all state offices are closed because the state has no budget!

      Jul 15, 2011 at 6:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pastorofthechurchofallpeople
      Pastorofthechurchofallpeople

      NBC News: Bachmann’s husband gets big Medicaid payments
      By Joe Kimball | Published Wed, Jun 29 2011 9:29 am
      NBC investigative reporter Michael Isikoff has a story noting that while Congresswoman Michele Bachmann has “forcefully denounced the Medicaid program for swelling the ‘welfare rolls,’ the mental health clinic run by her husband has been collecting annual Medicaid payments totaling over $137,000 for the treatment of patients since 2005.”
      According to the story, Bachmann & Associates, the clinic founded by her husband, Marcus Bachmann, a clinical therapist, is:
      “based in Lake Elmo, Minn., [and] describes itself on its website as offering ‘quality Christian counseling’ for a large number of mental health problems ranging from ‘anger management’ to addictions and eating disorders.”
      Said the story:
      “[T]he payments from the Minnesota Department of Human Services to her husband’s clinic appear to contradict some of Michele Bachmann’s public accounts this week when she was first asked about the extent to which her family has benefited from government aid. Contacted this afternoon, Alice Stewart, a spokeswoman for Bachmann, said the congresswoman was doing campaign events and was not immediately available for comment.”

      Jul 15, 2011 at 7:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Look, I’m not a great fan of the Bachmanns but I find it incredible that a grown adult would be forced to attend one of their misguided ex-gay clinics. A grown adult has a mind of his/her own. Nobody would have forced such an adult to go to the clinic.

      Face it, guys, there’s a number of men and women who don’t like the fact that they have same-sex feelings. This is especially the case with men. Men have been brought up to adhere to very strict rules regarding their sexuality. A lot of these rules are imposed on them by their parents as they grow up, by their peers when they are adolescents, and by women in general.

      Don’t underestimate the role of women in all this. Women are responsible for a lot of the homophobia that surrounds the concept of male-male sexuality. Jealousy, envy, fear of competition…these are driving forces.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 7:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TomMc
      TomMc

      Marcus Bachmann = Queen of The Meanypusses. (Or is it meanypussi?)

      Jul 15, 2011 at 7:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scott Rose
      Scott Rose

      @jason: Jason has it occurred to you that gay-bashing parents could coerce their gay child into having to get “therapy” at Bachmann & Associates – and that if the “therapy” delivered to the gay child/”therapy” victim were fraudulent, that would be a violation of the child’s rights just as surely as denying a child health care due to Christian Scientist beliefs is?

      Jul 15, 2011 at 7:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      @jason: As TFA says, those people are likely saddled with other mental/emotional problems, such as negative thinking, low self esteem and self-defeating behaviors. While these people are not technically forced to be there, they aren’t necessarily capable of making a rational decision.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 7:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ChrisC
      ChrisC

      The guy has such a gayface.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 7:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Abirdwillingtobeitself
      Abirdwillingtobeitself

      Michele is so proud of the clinic that she won’t discuss it on camera as anything other than a source of job creation. lol

      Jul 15, 2011 at 8:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hf2hvit
      hf2hvit

      @ChrisC: And GAY VOICE

      Jul 15, 2011 at 9:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      A typical self hating clset case and his angry bitter wife.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 9:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ganondorf
      Ganondorf

      It’s possible that some of his “patients” requested the “therapy” (torture is a more apt term, I think) after being cajoled and pressured into it by family. One (probably most) was a minor from a religious family. Whether that constitutes informed consent is unlikely.

      But it’s also unlikely that he’s gay. As much as one wants to believe it (and people very much want to believe that he’s gay). Not impossible, just unlikely (be a Bayesian). If he were gay, hypocrisy alone isn’t inherently funny. This is, as evidenced by the jokes being made at his expense and reactions. Why? Because it’s a certain type: gay related. And, like it or not, stereotypically “gay” behavior is still not only something that gets laughs, but is often times laughed at and made fun of by gays themselves. So this ridicule is, in fact, homophobic. But it’s being used in a productive way, and not just to get laughs at the tension between his bigoted public persona and stereotypically gay mannerisms and inflection (well, some people are just going for the laughs). But if not for Michele Bachmann’s base being off the charts homophobic, this would all be much clearer. Many making this kind of criticism are relying on their [bachmann's real and perceived constituency] homophobia to discredit them, thus it’s homophobia being used for good. And to the ones decrying it as homophobic (righto, it is), and thus wrong in every circumstance (wrongo, it clearly isn’t): welcome to realpolitik.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 9:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TMikel
      TMikel

      Silver Daddy? More like Silver Mammoth! The man is huge. Everything about him screams, “Queen, Queer, Major Fairy.” He is a joke and God help those who seek treatment from him.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 10:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AntiKinsey
      AntiKinsey

      I don’t see why the media is focusing on Marcus Bachmann and he’s “pray the gay away”..it’s obvious it doesn’t work..I guess it’s more about attacking Michelle since he’s been running this clinic for awhile and no one cared until she ran…people are calling him a closet case..if he is a gay..wouldn’t that mean gay *is* a choice? I digress..I agree that people can’t unlearn gay anymore than someone can be trained to accept gays..

      Jul 15, 2011 at 11:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • McGullen
      McGullen

      @TMikel: We need an undercover video of someone getting treatment from Bachmann himself. How much more gay will they leave?

      Jul 15, 2011 at 11:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      The simple fact is that a good therapist has absolutely no knowledge, and therefore no judgment, of the person they are treating. Then, like the article says, only after the therapists has gathered enough information on their patient, they can reccomend a form of treatment, but no counselor can force it.

      Therapists are supposed to increase a person’s self-confidence in themselves, giving them the ability to confront their flaws. As we’ve read from undercover stories from great people like Patrick Strudwick, these ex-gay therapist do not do such things. Instead, they immediately tell their patients that they are confused, that they are sick, that something horrible was done to them, most of the time allegedly by people they thought they could trust.

      Ex-gay therapists instead weaken their patients until they are so distraught and confused that they’ll do anything to feel better, even if it is something as extreme as electroshock therapy.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 11:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scott Rose
      Scott Rose

      Go back and watch the call-in radio show video with Marcass Bachwoman’s notorious “barbarians” comment. The radio announcer’s specific question was, when a young person comes out as gay to their parent(s), what does Marcass Bachwoman recommend as a parental response to that gay offspring’s coming out? Marcass Bachwoman gave a HORRIBLE response. He/she/it said that the parent should REJECT THEIR CHILD’s COMING OUT, by telling them that “just because they feel” a certain way is no reason they “have to” “go down that road” and I think I heard words like “sin” as well, and of course, “discipline,” but the point is, when a young person comes out to their parent(s), they need and deserve for their parent(s) to fully support and love them, as gay human beings, not give them a crazy Evangelist queen’s gay-bashing bullshit reaction with “barbarian” “discipline” blah blah blah blah Jesus assholery in it. A parent who reacts to their child’s coming out by saying “just because you feel that doesn’t mean you have to go down that road” is guilty of psychological child abuse. Marcass Bachwoman told a public audience that if their children come out to them as gay, they should psychologically abuse them.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 11:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DeGuyz in Mississippi
      DeGuyz in Mississippi

      It takes one to know one. He’s as queer as a three dollar bill. He is his own best client and he failed. He may fool his whatever she is but he needs to stay in that closet. I signed a petition where his entities are billing medicaid for his services. That’s federal and I hope they find him in violation. A probe to be expected soon.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 11:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DeGuyz in Mississippi
      DeGuyz in Mississippi

      @McGullen: I’m glad to know there was an undercover brother getting it on video.

      Jul 15, 2011 at 11:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • iDavid
      iDavid

      @Scott Rose

      Yes it is psychological abuse and even more pointedly, sexual abuse, which is horrifically damaging.

      Jul 16, 2011 at 12:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • iDavid
      iDavid

      ….beyond all measure.

      Jul 16, 2011 at 12:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert
      Robert

      Ari Fleischer’s performance on CNN Is unacceptable! It is not OK for medical providers to offer patients inaccurate medical treatment, such as “pray the cancer away”. Mental health practice suffers from this type of stigma. Mental health care is medical treatment.

      Jul 16, 2011 at 1:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jessi
      jessi

      Maybe a beard will make Marcus look and act more manly. LOL!

      Jul 16, 2011 at 5:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JoeyO'H
      JoeyO'H

      Marcus Bachmann is a self loathing silver queen.

      Jul 16, 2011 at 8:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JoeyO'H
      JoeyO'H

      …Who, along with the Missus enjoyed cashing Medicare payments for the “ex-gay clinic.” They are a disgrace and must be exposed and brought down. Oh, and that farm they have subsidized by the Government.

      Jul 16, 2011 at 9:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      @jason: Sure, blame women for everything! Dude, hatred of one’s sexuality has to do with religion (big one), guilt, shame, and most importantly, fear of family rejection, fulfilling family expectations and obligations. It has NOTHING to do with women. I have never heard of women trying to make gay men commit to them or stay with them or making them gay. If anything, it is grown adult gay men who don’t have the balls to admit to the women they are dating that they are gay and that they are using these women as beards, to impress their families. Gay men need to own up to their sexuality and at least, inform their hetero partners that they are struggling with same sex feelings instead of breaking women’s hearts, not to mention, the children produced by these sham marriages. Don’t blame women for that; blame the gay men without balls for that.

      I am tired of the sexism rampant among us gay men and had to reply to this post because not only do straight men blame women for their shortcomings, I occasionally see gay men doing it too! WTF.

      Not only is religion/society a huge factor, but I also have learned recently from personal experience of another reason for gay men dating women that I never heard of before until I met my partner of 6 years; being turned off to the gay scene/bars/promiscuity, etc. Let’s face it guys; most gay men are whores and most (not all) have a fear of commitment, just like their straight male counterparts. My partner admitted to me that before he met me, he was almost going to marry a woman, in order to have that stability and home life he craved, even if it meant not being true to himself! That shocked me; but I don’t blame him. I have felt disappointed with urban gay life many a times during my 20s and 30s and was fed up with the games and night life and just wanted to settle down. I have read the complaints of many “ex-gays” who mention that particular fast, gay lifestyle as the main reason they turn to ex-gay groups in the first place! Don’t believe me, do some googling and you will learn a thing or two. Just like Bill Cosby aired the dirty laundry of the African-Amer community; we gays need to do the same and point out the areas we need to improve on. I am not against sex or sex without love at all; but am tired of gay men who lie, in order to have their cake and eat it too. I have yet to meet a gay man (with the exception of my partner) who is honest about his sexual activities and tells it like it is. But instead, most gay men string along their gay partners, possibly infecting them along the way, instead of being honest about their not wanting monogamy, commitment, etc. Just like straight men, gay men need to grow up and grow some balls!

      Enough blaming women. Gay men need to own up to their shortcomings.

      Jul 16, 2011 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mikeandrewsdantescove
      mikeandrewsdantescove

      I don’t know if others have noticed this – Dr. Bachmann acts gay himself.

      Mike
      http://sfholidays.blogspot.com/

      Jul 16, 2011 at 12:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Abirdwillingtobeitself
      Abirdwillingtobeitself

      @Chris: He knows it’s not about women. Ignore the newfag trolls.

      Once upon a time, in the days of IRC and usenet newsgroups, trolls had limits to the things they said and did. It was a sport and they did it for a laugh. Now it’s done by people who live out of the internet, and they actively try to influence public opinion.

      They also encourage people to dismiss others based on category. Which can encourage things like racism and homophobia: “you’re just black, you’re just gay, so I can ignore you.” They’re complicit in making this sort of thinking necessary to spot them, complicit in making more and more people prejudge.

      Jul 16, 2011 at 12:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      @jason: One last point to rebut your sexist statement: if anything, it is WOMEN, who have been more supportive of gay men than straight men! Of course, I am talking about progressive, liberal straight women. But even the religious ones I have met, are still a bit more lenient and understanding, compassionate, than any of the straight men I have met in my lifetime. Straight women, for the most part, are not threatened by gay sexuality. Maybe from your experience they have, but not from mine. If anything, it has been women who have not turned their backs on me upon coming out, whereas the straight men did. Gay men are a threat to straight men, not straight women. Straight men are always uptight around gay men, because they aren’t secure enough to take a compliment from a gay man or to react mildly to gay men hitting on them. Homophobia, just like sexism, stems from our patriarchal notions of sexuality and where sexism exists, so does homophobia. They are linked. Sexism demands that women are on the bottom, sexually and culturally, that they keep quiet, that they dress like women and act like women, that they remain submissive and weak. Gay flamboyant men break those rules and hence why most straight men find it repulsive that a “man” act like a woman. Even more repulsive to a straight man is a MASCULINE gay man taking it up the ass. That is not what “real men” do. This all stems from sexism. Hence why most feminists are pro-gay.

      Please rethink your statement about women being to blame for our self-hatred. I have never once heard any of my gay friends who struggled with their same sex feelings ever blaming women; we blamed our Christian upbringing, our male chauvinistic fathers who hated us, our anti-gay male bullies at school, our wanting more out of life than quick sex and nightlife, etc. But never have I ever heard them blame women for their homo self-hatred. If anything, I thank women for being mostly compassionate and defending our rights. Even the fundie Christian women I have encountered have told me they don’t promote violence towards gays and some even believed in anti-gay discrimination, even if they disagreed with my lifestyle, while their straight male Christian counterparts, for the most part, wanted to beat the gay out of us! Women are our biggest supportes, yawl!

      Jul 16, 2011 at 12:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      Great investigative reporting! Someone needs to unravel this whole thing just in time for the GOP presidential bidding to come to a close. Let them sink. I only feel sorry for the people who have been victims of the torture paraded as psychological care in this clinic. Furthermore, seeing that ex gay therapy is not in keeping with American Psychiatric Association standards, they should be made to pay back every penny they collected from state funding. Also, the good “Dr.” should be arrested for fraud. It is clear he has no PhD.

      Jul 16, 2011 at 7:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @Abirdwillingtobeitself: Sorry to inconvenience you, but Jason has been a regular poster on this site waaay longer than you. I despise most everything he posts, but he’s ours. This site is “Irregular”
      @Shannon1981: Since MzBachmann has officially announced her candidacy, shouldn’t all records pertaining to their finances be made public? Where is the FBI when you really-really could use them?

      Jul 17, 2011 at 6:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Abirdwillingtobeitself
      Abirdwillingtobeitself

      My personality doesn’t allow me to have superficial bonds with people, declanto. I don’t know how any length of time could make you feel close to a persona instead of a real person. Especially since jason’s behavior is meant to put you on the alert, meant to keep you from feeling close to people who are, after all, complete strangers. Maybe you like having relationships where you’re put on the spot. I don’t know, and I don’t mean it as an insult. It’s just a guess.

      About him being a long-time poster: since I’ve always lived my life on the move, I just don’t understand exclusive club thinking. People come and go, and I’ve learned that time doesn’t have much of anything to do with getting close to someone.

      Jul 17, 2011 at 9:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @declanto: You’re right. All financial records, including those for that clinic, should now be a matter of public record, per federal law. So why aren’t they? And, while we’re on financial record, why hasn’t NOM complied with the order to release their records?

      And we all know the clinic got state funding. We also know there was ex gay therapy there(even if the patients asked for it, which we all know they did not, it is illegal in a publicly supported clinic), so, to that end, there should be much trouble to be had here.

      Jul 17, 2011 at 10:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dvlaries
      dvlaries

      You gotta read this:

      http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/11829/the-confessions-of-marcus-bachmann/

      Jul 17, 2011 at 1:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Queer Supremacist
      Queer Supremacist

      @Chris: Bill Cosby was vilified for his comments about the problems in the black community. Trouble is, he was right. The pre-emptive accusations of racism of anyone who would dare say one word against a homophobe with a single sub-Saharan African ancestor are the tip of the iceberg. If we can’t even handle constructive criticism from within, then our future will stagnate. Despite my screen name I’m not letting my people off the hook for everything we do just because we’re gay.

      When I was struggling with my sexuality, I read everything I could find about gay culture, but I could relate to very little of it. I wasn’t effeminate, I had no desire to collect sexual partners the way some people collect stamps, my personal tastes only correlated with what were stereotypically considered “gay” tastes on a case-by-case basis. The only thing I could identify with was the history of the oppression of gays at the hands of many of the same people who oppressed my people, the Jews. I wanted no part of the subculture of the urban gay bar. I have no need for it now that I have a loving, honest, understanding boyfriend. He, too, dislikes the arrogance of gay men and once told me he doesn’t care if he has gay friends or not.

      I disagree that most gay men are whores. And as someone who favors the legalization of prostitution, I resent the comparison. I never gave up the idea of a family life when I came out as gay; all that changed was the gender of my future spouse and the likelihood that my kids would look like me became very slim. But for gays, there have been so many obstacles to forming family ties that the only way we could connect with one another was through furtive sexual encounters, it’s unsurprising that gay culture would revolve around those. To read about all those gays who formed monogamous relationships in that era and made them last in spite of all the barriers in place gives me hope. For future generations of gays it will be different. Marriage will be an option. Forming families will be an option. Monogamy will not be sneered at by love-negative types who see sexual exclusivity as “unrealistic”—an excuse they use for their own lack of self-control.

      Jul 17, 2011 at 5:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Abirdwillingtobeitself
      Abirdwillingtobeitself

      @Queer Supremacist: I think he was vilified for making those comments to white audiences.

      Jul 17, 2011 at 5:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Derrick
      Derrick

      In all the pictures I look at, Mr. Bachmann seems consistently sane, unlike his wife. How could someone as sane as him marry someone as crazy as Michele?

      Jul 17, 2011 at 6:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jakey
      Jakey

      @AntiKinsey: You must be sad that jason is getting all the attention. You snooze you lose, bro. Trolling is not for the lazy.

      Jul 18, 2011 at 2:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      You can hear the audio with its annoying skips (mimicking a skipping record) at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvwP4vHEc-I&feature=player_embedded and his use of “barbarians” is ambiguous – it could refer to either gays or to children/teenagers in general, and more likely the latter He first said that children and adolescents are “curious” about sexuality, and then said that “barbarians need to be educated”. But he was responding initially to a question of what to do when a teenager announces she(he?) is gay. In context, he could have been referring to children in general – a statement about children in general preceded his use of the word “barbarians”, so he has a plausible excuse if he claims his statement was taken out of context or merely poorly worded (referring to teenagers in general as “barbarians” would probably get some laughter from parents with teenagers going though a particularly rebellious phase).

      Whether the audio track was “doctored” is hard to say. It sounded natural. To tell, you’d want to analyze it, looking for unusual features in the background noise that might indicate some editing. That’s something Bachmann apparently doesn’t realize – his claim of “doctoring” can be tested, certainly well enough to catch any amateurish attempts at “doctoring” by some random blogger. IMHO criticizing him for a bogus claim of “doctoring” would be far more reasonable than criticizing him for a choice of words that could have been made to sound far worse by some selective editing. He also deserves some criticism for claims like his one that homosexuality is increasing. In reality, with reducing social disapproval, more people are probably coming out. so the “increase” could simply be people moving out of the closet. Anyone with a PhD. should have thought of that possibility.

      Jul 18, 2011 at 3:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • m.
      m.

      @jason: Totally agree with you!

      Jul 18, 2011 at 4:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • declanto
      declanto

      @Abirdwillingtobeitself: Jason is like a ‘possum that comes around and wrecks the neatly contained garbage out back then goes away. I don’t like him but there he is. And he’ll be back. Ugly as it is,this pathic terror of women is nothing new here. Then #44M just agreed with him, totally. See what I mean?

      Jul 18, 2011 at 5:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Abirdwillingtobeitself
      Abirdwillingtobeitself

      @declanto: No, he doesn’t wreck garbage bags. Since (as I said) newfag trolls like to play at social engineering, they choose important targets. Jason wants people to think that gay men have a problem with women, which makes him a homophobic shit.

      Since they have targets, it’s possible to tell that newfag trolls are superego psychologists. That’s the stupidest kind of psychologist there is.

      Jul 18, 2011 at 9:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jose Martinez
      Jose Martinez

      “Even the fundie Christian women I have encountered have told me they don’t promote violence towards gays and some even believed in anti-gay discrimination, even if they disagreed with my lifestyle, while their straight male Christian counterparts, for the most part, wanted to beat the gay out of us! Women are our biggest supportes, yawl!”

      Put a sock in it, you apologist!

      Those women you kindly speak of who “disagree” with your life style are bigots! Stop making excuses for them. There are plenty of fundie conservative women who have it in for us. You’re in denial. You’re mimicking conservative crap talk. For starters, being gay is not life style choice, dumb ass. People like that demonstrate a condensing notion they have some moral compass to approve/disapprove or agree/disagree on what THEY perceive is a “life style choice” and no nothing about. I made no choice in being gay, so those women and OTHERS who think like that get NO credit just because they (claim) not to have any malice or against anti-gay discrimination. They’re still bigots. So what if they’re not insulting us or promote violence, they still share those right-wring beliefs. And I have to respect that why? They’re against marriage and STILL feel they need to express disapproval. If they didn’t hate us, they wouldn’t need to express disapproval or disagreement because even if being LGBT WAS a choice, they would know it’s not their place….Yet they do. Sounds to me that you believe in their crap or sympathize with their crappy beliefs. Life style choice…..Get fucking real.

      More importantly, there ARE women have contempt for gay men and feel that WE’RE the ones to blame for THEIR shortcomings and problems. I’m Latino and this something common in communities of color. Fuck, ask Black gay men, for crying out loud. When you’re hearing the tirade about Black men with White women, GAY MEN ARE THE NEXT SCAPEGOAT. You don’t get to bitch about sexism and what not when many of these females love to be two-faced and only like gay men as a HUMAN PURSE. Being a sassy sidekick is okay, doing their nails, picking out their cloths, etc…. is acceptable but serious issues like gay marriage, rights, and discrimination…..AND THEY’RE NO WHERE TO BE FOUND. Don’t romanticize! As a gay Latino male, I sometimes ponder if people claim to support us really do us or just give crappy, P.C. lip service for convince.

      Seriously, Chris, get off your fucking high horse. Some women are stupid enough to sleep with obvious gay men who claim to be Straight, even the religious ones if they claim to be the ex-gay! Women are not exempted from criticism! Women can be just as intolerant and bigoted. Minority groups from time to time have showed contempt for on another. Be it the Prop 8 fiasco where African Americans where blamed, the hatred toward those who transgendered and effeminate by OUR own in the “community”

      Jul 18, 2011 at 11:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jose Martinez
      Jose Martinez

      Another thing too:

      Your experience is your experience. I’ve met plenty of women with contempt for gay men. Does your experience triumph over mine

      How fucking amusing is that you have the gawk to call us whores and go on same Fucking hypocrite. I’m gay and as much as I like the idea of casual sex, it’s too risky and their are emotional consequences. Again, women who are religious fundamentalists but don’t have malice towards LGBT are fucking BIGOTS. Don’t you ever try to tell me that ANY conservative or fundie CHRISTIAN that doesn’t harbor malice or animosity the way most do, regardless of whether they’re man or woman, are a acceptable or ok group of people. You can tolerate that foolishness, but I won’t. I WILL NOT SETTLE FOR MEDIOCRITY. I will not have these condescending, pompous asses believe they’re any different from those who would dispose of me in a heartbeat because you see, they SHARE those beliefs. So what if they don’t condone violence! THAT MEANS EVERYBODY SUPPORTS THE GHEY! Plenty of the bigots will try to word their prejudices in the nicest way possible. Those women who you affectionately speak off are on the same level of the straight male, White counterparts. They’re simply just tame about and I won’t fucking have anybody telling me what I can or cannot feel about them. You don’t get points with me because you’re nice in my face but feel some snotty, condescending need to judge or approve of what they stupidly and wrongfully belief is a life style choice.

      Many of these faggots will settle for whatever they can get, but I will NEVER give into the hilarious notion that ANY conservative is my friend. Including your precious fundamentalist Christian women friends.

      Jul 18, 2011 at 11:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • iDavid
      iDavid

      Bigotry and ignorance are not just limited to fundies. The anger at differing viewpoints right here mimic perfectly. Attack at all costs! Tho it can win wars, it does not win peace. Calm down a bit, and see more clearly, you are not victims.

      Jul 18, 2011 at 12:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jose Martinez
      Jose Martinez

      @iDavid: WTF are you on about? Marcus Bachmann simply doesn’t have a differing opinion or viewpoint, jackass. These our are fucking lives you right-wing fucks are messing around with! My comment directed at Chris goes back to tired and irritating notion that being gay is a life style choice and we shouldn’t accommodate bigoted conservative, Christian WOMEN because allegedly they’re less hostile than their White male counterparts, which is simply utter BS. They’re are heterosexual, Christian, right-wing men who are just as phony and claim not to hate or wish violence on us but “don’t approve the homosexual lifestlye” BS. The user Chris must being walking human purse for women if he (or she) says such apologetic BS.

      None of what you conservatives spew out counts as a “disagreement” or “different viewpoints”. You’re only looking for a validation to your pre-existing prejudices so don’t you right-wing bastards come in here lecturing about hatred and bigotry. Much of it comes for your political party. Telling me I’m going to Hell, that I’m a child molester, that I’m mentally diseased, accusing me of being promiscuous because I’m gay, passing legalization to discriminate against me, isn’t “respectfully disagreeing” with somebody, dumb ass. Some of you are even so desperate to play two-face, that try to kiss our asses by proclaiming you don’t hate us so you can distance yourselves from all the fucking nasty things you do to LGBT in the name of your religious and political ideologies. Get real. Nor is making assumptions about I live my life because they don’t match your shitty Christian ideals and what not.

      Jul 18, 2011 at 1:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • idavid
      idavid

      @Jose Martinez,

      DUDE! I’m gay and I’m on “your side”, I’m not the opposite. But attacking our own through name calling and anger is not giving us strength and looks foolish and out of control. If you disagree with someone cannot you engage in civil conversation without coming off as a raging “hothead”? Use stats, ditch the anger. That’s how positive change gets made at the end of the day. Angry rants makes you look very un-credible. If you went on CNN to debate the RR, you’d get tossed out on your ear, losing ground for our cause. Hey if that’s your ideal, it’s a free country, go for it.

      Nuf said?

      Jul 18, 2011 at 2:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jose Martinez
      Jose Martinez

      You’re right. I apologize for my angry, hateful responses. It’s just the comments that Chris made come off as half-assed, extremely apologetic pseudo feminist BS that make sweeping generalizations, blanket statements, and etc…..You know, the way certain minority groups that always accuse the general LGBT community of being racist, sexist, transphobic….but do the exact thing when they’re angry at particular group of people! Honestly, why are women who are social conservatives, religious fundamentalists, and right-wing being portrayed as being more sympathetic and understanding than their male counterparts based someone’s personal experience? The are plenty of women on that political spectrum that view us with absolute contempt. There are women who only view gay men as fashion accessories or good enough to be the sassy sidekick and nothing more. Serious issues such as marriage, employment, hate crimes, etc….They’re no where to be found? This clown thinks conservatives who are women and who, again, allegedly claim they have no malice or are against discrimination but still need to give their unwarranted approval/disapproval over the intimate details of our person lives based on their shitty and ignorant POV is something to celebrate and praise? Because they’re not insulting us? They’re not belittling and showing us hostility? Because they manage to feign compassion and sympathy and understanding? So that means all conservatives are our friends! Including the religious fundies. I’m getting fed with people who have some snotty ass worldview about human sexuality making themselves the official judges of what is acceptable or not. It demonstrates a very condescending attitude that is prevalent among religious folks that our existence and our actions must be legitimatized by their shitty religious beliefs and the precious Holy Bible, and if some gay men challenge that worldview, Hell breaks. Unfortunately, they have apologetic gays who will settle for crumbs to counterattack that!

      I’m one of those gay men who loath people who resort to using “life style choice” when it comes to homosexuality. If I ever decided to engage in promiscuous sex with a bunch of random guys all at one time, THAT IS MY LIFE STYLE CHOICE. Being gay is not. So many right-wringers and half-assessed progressives allow people to weasel themselves out of rightfully being called out on their bigotry because they manage to word it in the nicest way possible. So what? Aren’t there racists and their ilk that have managed to say the most nasty, condescending, arrogant, bigoted things in the nicest manner possible. And then we have folks who have the audacity to insist the they’re not bigoted or a homophobe while trying to play both sides and wording it nicely. Yeah, right.

      iDavid, I hope this comments give you some insight into why I exploded like that. And simply put, some of the comments that Chris made are suspect IMHO.

      Jul 18, 2011 at 4:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • idavid
      idavid

      @Jose Martinez,

      I understand the concept of making blanket statements, I’ve been trying to break myself of that very bad habit for years, and at times have been called on it and had to recant. And I’m now just getting it down in my psyche enough to stop doing it. I think a lot of people are in the same boat, you included to some degree. I read what Chris and Jason said and installed “some” into their blanket statements, because if you asked them, they would probably agree they weren’t talking about ALL women or ALL gay men, as it is obviously variable.

      Some women are very anti-gay, some are not, that’s true. Some conservative women don’t agree with our “life-style” but will still vote for gay marriage because it’s right to give equality regardless of views, and some don’t. That’s also true tho it may be a small percentage. Chris said “most men are whores” not all men so that is not a blanket statement, tho borderline.

      So in looking at this, I take the high road and give people who make blanket statements a break and install “some” in their writings, and it breaks the thing down into doable verbage. I may be mistaken on their actual intent ….. but I don’t think so.

      I think at the end of the day we are all looking to be heard “clearly” and it’s a mistake when we are not. Anti gays depend on blanket statements in order to discredit. We on the other hand have to correct them, and they eat crow for it.

      Dan Savage is a great example of delivering negs and still proving credible. Same with Wayne Besen at Truth Wins Out. Maybe looking at how some of our freedom fighters are handling the media would help us all in communicating better and more effectively without all the emotion attached. I am certainly no saint at it but I have made effort and I feel more empowered when I don’t get angry. It can certainly ruin my day if I let anger take over.

      Anger is blinding, and ruins causes. We can’t afford to look over emotional. It discredits us and that’s what opposing forces want, so they taunt us at every corner with misinformation. It’s bait ‘n hook, don’t fall for it. Just stay in your truth and talk it, and you won’t give yourself an ulcer in the process.

      It’s all going our way regardless, for that we can be proud and pat each other on the back, even if we mis-communicate at certain points in the process.

      Jul 18, 2011 at 6:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris Vogel
      Chris Vogel

      There is another problem with “treatments” to change homosexuality: they don’t work (apart from doing a lot of harm, which may be their real intention). For a decade, I researched this “therapy”, both done in medical environments, such as “aversion therapy”, and the various religious regimes, for the Council on Homosexuality and Religion. A first indication of their failure is readily available in the tracts which many of the victims write. They are, all of them, still ‘struggling’ with their homosexuality. In other words, they are not “ex” anything. And, it doesn’t last–the paper tracts are more durable. In both kinds of “therapy”, the averagel shelf life seems to be about six months. This was all confirmed by interviews with those who had undergone these “therapies”. There are many, many more ex-ex-gays than there are those still pretending to have been changed, and these, of course, are vastly outnumbered by the many homosexuals happily leading homosexual lives and in homosexual relationships. Further evidence is available from the admissions by ‘therapists’ such as Charles Socariades and Master and Johnson, who were obliged to admit that they could refer other therapists and journalists to no examples of successful therapy. These “therapists’” claims of success turned out to be based on patients who had disappeared or had never existed. It is perhaps uncharitable to say of these “therapies” that they are frauds, but that will be the judgement of history.

      Jul 20, 2011 at 12:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert
      Robert [Different person #1 using similar name]

      The most distressing thing about these sorts of people is that if they get caught with their hands in the Federal cookie jar, they’ll blame the devil and the under-educated people who follow them will buy it just as they have everything else that spews from their hateful mouths.

      Aug 22, 2011 at 12:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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