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SHOCK: Gay Ex-Sailor Comes To Capt. Owen Honors’ Defense

 

It won’t be enough to get Capt. Owen Honors his top job back, but can one gay ex-sailor save the USS Enterprise’s now-former commander by coming to his defense?

Former Petty Officer Eric Prenger, who came out after leaving the Navy, says he was “absolutely not” offended by the videos. Even if Honors threw around the word “fag” and used two women showering together as a punchline. “Myself, nor the other gay crew members that I knew of at the time, were ever offended by those videos,” says Prenger. “My time on that board I never got the feeling he was against gays at all.”

Now he’s trying to organize other gay crew members to come to Honors defense. Which is a, um, honorable thing? “Honestly your initial reaction was a little bit a shock to see a commander, a person of such high rank, doing the things he was doing.” Well, yeah. But “for people to that [he's a homophobe or a gay basher] that didn’t even know him or weren’t even there to serve under him, it’s pretty frustrating.”

Prenger has nothing but praise for his former boss: “He was a great man to serve under, and this is an unfortunate circumstance, and if I can do my part to help him in any way, I would be more than happy to do so.”

An example of an ex-servicemember putting the military before his sexuality? Perhaps. But I’m certainly not going to sit here in judgment of a veteran-cum-civilian who still thinks highly of the man who kept he and thousands of sailors safe while at sea. Prenger is entitled to defend Honors. But for anyone else who has a serious problem with a top Navy official throwing around biased slurs to get a laugh, well, you’re certainly entitled too.

By:           Max Simon
On:           Jan 6, 2011
Tagged: , , , ,

  • 66 Comments
    • Cam
      Cam

      Sure, and back in the 1930’s Mexicans probably were more used to hearing derogatory workds for Hispanics. And in the 50’s women in the worling world were used to being called “Sweetie and being asked to get coffee for their co-workers even if they were on the same level.”

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Cam: Oh Cam, get over yourself bro. Seriously, many women still don’t mind being called sweetie or getting coffee. The woman’s suffrage movement has advanced to the point where women can now chose to not get offended. They have this thing called freedom of choice. They can make the choice not to go off the deep end every time someone flirts with them a little at work.

      This sailor just decided that these videos are not that offensive, which if you actually watch all of the ones currently released they really aren’t. Faggot is a word thrown around a lot, and if your only hang up is that the word was used then I think its just a hang up that you have.

      I think the only people really bitching about this is old school drama queens that just can’t bare the fact that kids these days use all kinds of words that are overly offensive. White people say “nigger” right in front of black people. Straights say “faggot” right in front of gay people. Men say “bitches” right in front of women. No one gets offended! The younger generation realizes that words are just words, and its the power you assign them that matters. The older generation seems to be hung up on a long past PC craze.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RomanHans
      RomanHans

      I’m with you, Cam. You can pretty much assume that anybody who repeats “Don’t be such a fag” isn’t going to join PFLAG.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David Ehrenstein
      David Ehrenstein

      @Daez: And I’d say “Cunt!” right to your face if you were here now, Daez.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RomanHans
      RomanHans

      Daez, you’re clearly not working on all cylinders. You’re blaming the victims here. You say “many women still don’t mind being called sweetie or getting coffee.” What about the ones that do? They suffer. They become objects of derision, as is clear in your post.

      “[O]ld school drama queens”? Fuck you.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @David Ehrenstein: Your point? Some of us are big enough to take insults without believing that the person doing the insulting needs to be shot and shoved in a body bag or destroyed. Call me a cunt. Good for you. Any other terms of endearment/aggression you want to express. Unlike you, I’m smart enough to realize that words are words. The only power you find in such an insult is the power I give you by my handling of it.

      @RomanHans: I hit a nerve?

      If you actually read what I wrote you would see that MANY (not all) women do not mind, then I go on to say that that is a choice they get to make. Those that do mind normally tell the person doing it that its not appropriate and then that person stops. I never once said that women should be forced to be treated that way.

      I said that women now have the power to chose what is acceptable and not acceptable and MANY (not all again) do not mind being called sweetie from time to time. What is not acceptable, and what I never once advocated is that women should be treated as lesser beings than men. I personally have been called sweetie or other names by females quite often at work, and I didn’t go out and file a lawsuit for harassment.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Daez: “White people say “nigger” right in front of black people”….”No one gets offended!”

      Really??

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      @Daez: “Straights say “faggot” right in front of gay people… The younger generation realizes that words are just words, and its the power you assign them that matters.”

      This is not really true. I’m 20 and it offends me a great deal. I know how to take a joke, but when someone says something maliciously it is not okay. Everyone deserves respect.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sceth
      Sceth

      @RomanHans: Of what is Daez blaming the victims?

      I’m glad to hear about this sane gay person defending Honors. The Captain’s crime is the indiscretion to place comic lewdness *on record,* but not some offense upon persons.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @Cam: said..


      @Cam: Oh Cam, get over yourself bro. Seriously, many women still don’t mind being called sweetie or getting coffee. The woman’s suffrage movement has advanced to the point where women can now chose to not get offended.
      __________________________

      Fine, in your workplace, next time you’re in a meeting with co-workers, please lean over to a woman that is of an equal employment to you and say “Sweetie, you mind going out and getting us all some coffee?”

      I get that you like to be advaserial on these posts, but to claim that she wouldn’t be offended is ridiculous.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @afrolito: I’ve seen it more than enough times in my personal experience. I didn’t say the word is necessarily acceptable in my point of view, but I’ve often seen it used to show solidarity.

      @Josh: Yes, that malicious intent is a power you assign to the word. Its not the word itself. I will easily argue that it was not said maliciously in this case. Unless you believe that Captain Honors maliciously referred to himself as a faggot.

      @Sceth: Oh come on, he said faggot on camera, he must be a raging homophobic asshole because of his word choice.

      People need to stop taking themselves so fucking seriously. WORDS ARE WORDS. They only have the power that you assign to them.

      Sure, calling someone a derogatory and hurtful word in a disparaging way is inappropriate and unacceptable, but that isn’t what Honors did. Just using the word means nothing.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 2:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Cam: She might or might not be. You don’t speak for her. All women are different.

      I’ve asked my female co-workers, “could you please get me a cup of coffee sweetie.” They were not offended. It was their choice not to be offended.

      It was actually a very close friend in a very close knit working environment, but to make the claim what women most definitely have to be offended by such talk takes away the woman’s power to chose.

      The suffrage movement was about the power to chose what you are offended by not to have to be told what you need to be offended by by others (in this case you, a male).

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DR
      DR

      This guy saw the videos, knew the Captain, and he’s in a better position to comment than any of us. I’m glad so many people are willing to publicly support this man, as opposed to the anonymous folks who leak these to the press to prove a point.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • greenmanTN
      greenmanTN

      IMO this whole thing is a tempest in a teapot and it plays into our critics’ hands that gays are such fragile, precious darlings they can’t take a little ribbing but also a powerful group you dare not offend.

      If the Navy doesn’t think it’s proper for the Commander of one of their vessels to be making silly sub-SNL fratboy “funny” videos, then reprimand him, tell him to stop, and get back to business. If they don’t think Honors maintained the level of dignity or authority required of a military commander, then fire him and give that as the reason. But to act like a bunch of pearl-clutching prudes over a few silly-ass videos, especially in the immediate aftermath of DADT repeal, is ultimately more harmful to gays than helpful.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Daez: “I’ve often seen it used to show solidarity.”

      Solidarity with who?? Black people aren’t “niggers”, and that term is NEVER acceptable coming out of the mouths of white people, and directed at any black people I know…myself included. Any black person who puts up with being called a “nigger” by white people has serious mental and self esteem issues, but the vast majority of black people would not put up with that kind of “solidarity”.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      Ignore the troll “Daez”: his only mission here is to keep us from talking about the actual post/article and so he can use the talking points that his rightwing employer has given him.

      Clearly he has never worked at a real job and asked “sweetie” to get him some sugar. Unless shes in a cult too.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @afrolito: However, you don’t mention here that it is unacceptable to be said amongst black people. So, you feel it is acceptable to be used amongst black people? That would be the inference that I make.

      Therefore, you really find it that hard to believe that someone that wanted to be part of your crowd would use it just as freely as you allow other blacks to use it? Unless, your argument is that no one should use it towards a black person. Then what about someone using it towards a white person? Is that wrong too?

      By that context, it would only be offensive if Captain Honors said faggot to a gay person and unless some of you know things about him I don’t, I don’t think Captain Honors was referring to his love of dick.

      My argument would be that any black person that feels the need to attack white people over word choice has more mental issues. I do wonder how things will be when Hispanics take over the majority role, because to be honest, in my experience, Hispanics hate black people much more than white people do.

      @Jeffree: Oh Jeffree, just because some of us can become close personal friends with things other than our right (or is it left) hand doesn’t mean you need to be jealous. I was very close to the females I worked with at the time. Yes, I know it suits you better to form your mind around my demon ways than to admit that some people that don’t agree with you actually can think for themselves, but some day you will get over yourself and realize you are not always (or often) right!

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • t money
      t money

      is daez confusing nigg*r with nigga? if so, that just shows how much of a troll he is.

      no black folk, myself included, will let someone say the n word around them. “nigga”, well if its a homie, then maybe, but even then its not always a safe term. you cant assume all black folk are ok with words like nigga.

      as for the ex seaman :), of course he is going to defend his boss. but to say that it was not offensive is truly ignorant. substitute the gay jokes for mexican jokes. of course people will laugh along, and bury their feelings. its the armed forces you are supposed to do that.

      further, obviously someone DID have a problem with this if it is coming to light now.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matthew Rettenmund
      Matthew Rettenmund

      Is it supposed to be shocking that gay people serving in the military are more conservative than gay people not serving in the military?

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @t money: So much mention of violence over such a little word. Problem is, I don’t live in South Detroit. I pretty much dare you to go to any small town in this entire country and try to start shit with a white person because you don’t like their word usage.

      If you even remotely try that, have a fun time in jail, that is if you live long enough to get that far. You guys really need to get over the whole “I’m a gangster thug and I’m going to beat your ass for your language” argument. It doesn’t do any self-respecting black person any justice.

      @Matthew Rettenmund: Conservative is the wrong word usage. If anything, they are more liberal. Conservatism is used to describe upholding a traditional belief system such as all people that say nigger or faggot should be burnt alive at the stake.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Daez:

      Where did I say anywhere that it was cool or acceptable for black people to use the word “nigger” or even “nigga”?? Don’t make assumptions to shore up your already ridiculous arguments.

      As far as hispanics hating blacks more than whites do, WTF??? Again, you obviously travel in some really trashy circles. “Hispanics” (a dated term many don’t even use) are not monolithic in thought, and are not a part of a single racial category. It will probably blow your mind, but many of them are black, asian, indigeneous native american, and european descent.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      People give so much importance to WORDS, without realizing that what matters is the CONTEXT and the INTENTIONS. This commander was clearly not trying to offend gay guys. he has a RAUNCHY sense of humor, just like all soldiers. Military people are tough. They are trained to kill. That is their profession. Likewize, they like tough jokes.

      The guy is not guilty. Stop being such sensitive bitter queens.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Lucius Vorenus:

      How do you know what was “clearly in his head”?? You don’t know this Captain, or anything else about him, beyond his unfunny/unprofessional videos. Your defense of him is what is not in CONTEXT. Is this Captain anywhere on record advocating for the repeal of DADT? Is he a lifelong supporter and advocate for gay equality? The only thing that seems to be on public record, are his videos. Is that the man gays are defending?? WOW.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      The fact that he is SHOWING two guys bathing, without anger, as if it were funny, demonstrates his intentions. He simulates masturbation and homosexual activities, which are quite common in military environments, both in reality or desire to do it.There are fewer women in the military, and lots of pressure. Military guys, specially those who are in battle, are known for enjoying extreme hardcore pornography. Just study the psychology of soldiers and you will learn about that. These videos were a way of releasing the tension. They were ment to be FUNNY and not to offend anyone.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @afrolito: You said it was unacceptable for WHITE people to use it against BLACK people which leaves the inference that it is perfectly acceptable for the word to be used by black people.

      How do you fail to realize what the word CONTEXT means. Here is a simple example: Him on video calling a known gay guy a faggot is bad. However, him on video referring to himself as a faggot (unless he secretly likes dick) is not bad. Its also funny how you assume you know better than the other poster when you don’t have a clue either.

      You really need to stop playing the victim card. It really does get old, just because he is white doesn’t mean he owes you anything. You can’t prove his ancestor ever owned slaves. What if you traced his ancestors back to the abolitionist movement and the underground railroad, would you still be against him primarily because he is white? Sure you would, people like you don’t worry about reality when you bitch about “white privilege.”

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      These dialogues are from a drill intructor in Full Metal Jacket. This is the way these guys talk:

      -God has a hard-on for Marines because we kill everything we see! He plays His games, we play ours! To show our appreciation for so much power, we keep heaven packed with fresh souls! God was here before the Marine Corps! So you can give your heart to Jesus, but your ass belongs to the Corps!

      -I am hard but I am fair. There is no racial bigotry here. I do not look down on niggers, kikes, wops or greasers. Here you are all equally worthless. And my orders are to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps. Do you maggots understand that?

      -I bet you’re the kind of guy that would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around. I’ll be watching you

      -Holy dog shit. Texas? Only steers and queers come from Texas, Private Cowboy. And you don’t look much like a steer to me so that kinda narrows it down. Do you suck dicks?

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Daez: If you inferred anything from words I never wrote, then you’re an IDIOT.

      “You really need to stop playing the victim card. It really does get old, just because he is white doesn’t mean he owes you anything. You can’t prove his ancestor ever owned slaves. What if you traced his ancestors back to the abolitionist movement and the underground railroad, would you still be against him primarily because he is white? Sure you would, people like you don’t worry about reality when you bitch about “white privilege.”

      WTF?? What “victim card” am I playing?? Where did I say he owes me anything because he’s white? Where did I bring up “white privilege”?…and what does any of that have to do with this topic??

      You’re quite clearly insane, in addition to being full of shit. I guess you’ve run out of talking points for the day. LMAO!

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Lucius Vorenus: “The fact that he is SHOWING two guys bathing, without anger, as if it were funny, demonstrates his intentions” HUH??

      You really are a special kind of fool.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      Afrolito, I am pretty sure that the commandant will have no trouble adapting to the new law. He could continue doing the jokes and continue to be a commander that is admired by his soldiers. If I were a marine, I wouldn’t have any trouble working for him. And if he asked me if I like to suck dicks, I would say: “Yes, sir. Very much so, sir. I am a confirmed cock-sucker”.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @afrolito: I can’t help that you expect this man to bend down and kiss your ass. Seriously, your demanding to know what he has done to benefit you through your series of questioning is what makes me think you feel like a victim.

      Not everyone has to help you in some way to be considered a good person. Would it matter if he helped get DADT passed if he didn’t do anything to prevent it?

      There you go throwing words around again. Have you learned nothing, those words only have the power I assign to them. Your calling me insane means NOTHING because I let it mean nothing.

      @afrolito: So, to ask you as simple question, is it every person that agrees with you that must be insane, stupid or a fool, or is just the white guys that disagree with you?

      Jan 6, 2011 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      Afrolito, people are just too much sensitive and politically correct. Gays must fight for their rights, and we are winning those rights, but the fight cannot become a witch hunt. We have to put things into perspective. Military guys are tough and they enjoy those kinds of jokes.I do hope the commander would declare that he is welcoming to gay guys. This would settle everything, at least from my point of view. I know you will never be convinced.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 5:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      I believe it is much, much, much more important to change the way people think about gays than to change the way they talk. Bigoted people can be mute and still be bigoted. Think about it.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 5:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Daez:
      “Your calling me insane means NOTHING because I let it mean nothing.” Of course it doesn’t. Crazy people are always the last to know.

      “is it every person that agrees with you that must be insane, stupid or a fool, or is just the white guys that disagree with you?” Again, what do “white guys” have to do with any of this? Being clever is clearly not your strength.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 5:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Lucius Vorenus: “Bigoted people can be mute and still be bigoted. Think about it.

      Bigoted people can also make offensive, homophobic, and unfunny videos too. Think about that.

      I do agree that changing how people think is very important, but that video does not add to any positive enlightenment.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 5:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      It was not its purpose to be enlightenment. You cannot expect that it were. It was supposed to be a joke to release the ghastly tension that soldiers have to deal with, and improve morale. I laughed when I saw the video. I think it is kind of funny. And the two soldiers bathing are hot.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 5:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      @Cam: After I posted my comment I realized that I was assigning power to the word… But really, the word has that power on its own. Even if it wasn’t “malicious”, it is still negative. Everyone knows what it means and people know that it CAN offend others, so people should just not use the word (especially because you might not know who is nearby).

      Honors easily could’ve avoided this entire situation if he just kept his mouth shut. It doesn’t matter that he was “jokingly” calling himself a faggot because he was still using that word in a negative way… I don’t think there has ever been an appropriate time to use that word, especially by someone who is hateful (I’m not saying he is) or using it in poor taste (he did do this).

      The younger generation should not be told that it’s okay to use words like this because they’re losing their power. The truth is is that they’re not.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 5:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Lucius Vorenus: Of course it wasn’t meant to be enlightening. Something like that is clearly out of this Captain’s depth. Humor is subjective, but if you found it to be funny, then your taste level for joke is pretty dismal. But whatever.

      I guess in some circles crass homophobia is seen as a useful tool for improving morale and easing tensions.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 5:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh
      Josh

      @Daez:

      So sorry, Cam that was meant for DAEZ.

      After I posted my comment I realized that I was assigning power to the word… But really, the word has that power on its own. Even if it wasn’t “malicious”, it is still negative. Everyone knows what it means and people know that it CAN offend others, so people should just not use the word (especially because you might not know who is nearby).
      Honors easily could’ve avoided this entire situation if he just kept his mouth shut. It doesn’t matter that he was “jokingly” calling himself a faggot because he was still using that word in a negative way… I don’t think there has ever been an appropriate time to use that word, especially by someone who is hateful (I’m not saying he is) or using it in poor taste (he did do this).
      The younger generation should not be told that it’s okay to use words like this because they’re losing their power. The truth is is that they’re not.

      Read more: http://www.queerty.com/shock-gay-ex-sailor-comes-to-capt-owen-honors-defense-20110106/#ixzz1AIXKjajs

      Jan 6, 2011 at 5:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PatrickB
      PatrickB

      I’ll judge Prenger. He must be in such a deep hole of self-hate. When Honors says he “Now, gay boys (*sneer) this is something you don’t get to see” or “Those fags…” he’s talking about gays in general, Prenger included, and he’s saying that gay is stupid, pathetic, somehow of less value than non-gay. It’s a shame that, the moment we have the mainstream on our side, servile gays come out of the woodwork to stab us in the back. Prenger should either grow a backbone or get out of the way of those who already have.

      @Lucius Vorenus: @Daez: Where do you work?! I tried the “hey sweetie! *ass pat* can you get me some coffee?” Didn’t work. Got any advice?
      Also, my sambo skit didn’t go so well. Huh…

      Jan 6, 2011 at 8:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      PatrickB – some women, even some much younger women like the traditional roles. I know a number of them. Every woman is not a card carrying member of NOW. Why is this hard to believe? If nothing else, people are not all alike. Daez also said is that women have that choice. He also clearly said women should not be treated as less than men. Don’t see the problem here.

      Sorry Afrolito, I’m white and I have several black friends I could say the “n” word to. I’ve asked them specifically just because discussion like this come up. I have NOT used it but I think it is also true that MOST younger people are just not hung up with that and other words; PC stuff like older people, at least in what I can see for myself. The flip side of that coin is neither do they care about stuff they should. Many essential service organizations are dying for lack of members. Most younger people do not think they need to serve their communities. Part of this is also due to the job market – comnpanies demand fluidity, people move much more than they used to and change jobs more but the net result is the same – younger people do not join the community groups.

      I noticed no one commented on post #26. I know for certain that is how boot camp is. I almost joined the reserves and have many family members in the military. Especially now when so many people have seen combat, I would think they would need some humor and not be so sensitive as the people here seem to be. This is not to say it just dandy to use the word faggot. But I already said the little bit of these videos I have seen, the captain did not seem to be using that word in a vicious way.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 11:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 13 · DR wrote, “This guy saw the videos, knew the Captain, and he’s in a better position to comment than any of us. I’m glad so many people are willing to publicly support this man, as opposed to the anonymous folks who leak these to the press to prove a point.”

      Don’t assume they were leaked to the press to prove a point without firm evidence – what could have happened is that someone who had been on the ship made a copy of the videos and sent them to friends because he thought they were funny, and the inevitable happened: the videos popped up on the TV networks’ radar. Once things start spreading on the Internet, they can spread like wildfire.

      While sophomoric, there were probably quite a few 19 to 20 year old guys on that ship: check out http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00p/pressrel/press04/press14.htm (about something else), which says, “I was also thinking the other day … the average age of the civilian mariners now manning the ship is about 48. The average age of my active-duty Navy crew was 22.” One poster referred to “fratboy” videos, but their were a lot of guys on that ship the same age as a “fratboy” in college. No wonder a lot of people on the ship liked it.

      Jan 6, 2011 at 11:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PatrickB
      PatrickB

      @Jaroslaw: If your friends are still friends with you after you use sexist/racist slurs, that’s their problem. In a professional environment on the other hand, which the navy purports to have, this would never fly. I’ve worked on the East Coast, California, and in the Midwest, and shit would hit the fan if I pulled a sexist stunt. I’ve only my personal experience to go with. I’ve actually gotten in trouble for saying that post-docs were worked like slaves. (For the record, I regret making that thoughtless comment– slavery shouldn’t be trivialized.)

      Jan 6, 2011 at 11:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Jaroslaw: “I’m white and I have several black friends I could say the “n” word to.”

      You’re full of shit. Your “black friends” who would allow you to call them a “nigger”, are not representative of the majority. What they are is uneducated, self loathing, and mentally disturbed. It has nothing to do with being young and not hung up on words. I’m 27, so don’t even come at me with that mess.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 1:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #43 Look, I said I don’t use the word and don’t like it. But this us vs. them mentality of yours implies that blacks & whites can’t really be friends because I KNOW my black friends use the N word to talk to THEIR black friends/family. They are not self loathing or disturbed. We are all gainfully employed and living relatively normal lives.

      You CANNNOT invalidate my experiences. They may be different from YOUR experiences, but I’m telling the truth. So call me a liar if you want, but that is just your opinion.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 6:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      What I forgot to say also, this word is always used in a joking way, or “disbelief” or to express mock disapproval. Obviously no one ever says it in a truly denigrating way. It is like they would say “n Please!”

      Jan 7, 2011 at 6:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #42 Patrick – are you having trouble reading and comprehending? I said I never used the term. Further down I said my black friends occasionally say it to each other. goofing around mostly. And if I ever did use it, it would be to say “N Please” not YOU ARE A DIRTY N. For heaven’s sake, I live in Detroit – the Newspapers here have had full page editorials and interviews about this – The black community is divided on whether the N word should be used. There were pages of letters to the editor on on both sides. Not everyone black who says it is a rapper advocating violence or whatever. So no, Afrolito, you or Patrick or whomever cannot say all people everywhere at all times are mentally disturbed because they use that word. You just called 1/2 of Detroit mentally ill. Unenlightened? Maybe you could say that, but that would still be YOUR perspective, your opinion.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 8:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DR
      DR

      @B:

      I don’t need any more firm evidence to say the folks who leaked them have an agenda than I already have:

      Many sailors who served under Honors have publicly announced that they were not offended by the videos.

      Many sailors who served under Honors have publicly announced that he was an excellent commander to work with.

      The man has an excellent record in combat and as a commander, including a number of combat and non-combat related commendations.

      These videos were produced years ago, and years ago the situation, which may have been handled informally, was still addressed and the videos stopped.

      The ship was ready to deploy in two weeks, and then this happens.

      The ones who ran to the press won’t even use their names and are remaining anonymous, which is *always* suspicious in my mind.

      Last month, DADT repeal began.

      There is more than enough going on to raise my suspicions that someone has an agenda by releasing these videos at this exact point in time.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 9:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      I agree DR with the idea someone had an agenda, they were gutless to be anonymous; and Honors seems to be a fine person/commander etc.

      Still to say “many were not offended” means what? Some obviously were! Those words are innappropriate and you already know that I’m not calling for Honors to step down nor be fired.

      and also read post 14 – I agree with him too.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 10:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @afrolito: Does it make you feel better to insult the mentally insane. Crazy is a derogatory term. Apparently, you have no problem insulting others, but god forbid someone insult you, eh?

      You still haven’t hit my point that you feel that I must be insane because I disagree with you. Its typical that someone such as yourself needs to dismiss anyone that disagrees with you because you consider yourself rational.

      @PatrickB: How come you bitter old queens always play the “you must hate yourself because you are gay card” every time a gay person disagrees with you. I would have to say that thinking that the gay community needs to always agree with you and being so overly offended every time they don’t speaks more of your own self-hatred and need to be the token gay guy.

      HE NEVER SAID THIS IS NOT SOMETHING GAYS GOT TO SEE. He said, “this is something that probably doesn’t interest you gay guys out there…girls in the shower.” If you are interested by girls in the shower, you might want to turn in your “gay card.”

      He never once uses faggot to refer to gays. He never once derides gays. He uses faggot to deride Navy Air Men who believe they are beyond reproach and act all prissy. Unless you believe all gay men think they are beyond reproach and act all prissy, you can’t be offended. In short, the label only fits if you believe the stereotypes you are bitching about.

      The mainstream is NOT on our side on this one. This will be seen as an overzealous Obama led crucifixion of a man’s career just because he dared to offend the gays. It has yet to play out fully, but in the end it looks very bad for the gays because it shows them as weak and overly offended. That is the EXACT argument that has been made for years by our haters. We didn’t need to give them examples to use.

      Pregner actually has a back bone hence why he isn’t here “preaching to the choir” about how hurt and offended he is that a bad word was said in a video. You are the one that needs to get a backbone and learn to suck it up.

      IN typical fashion, you feel need to twist what I said because your brain can’t handle what was actually written. I said, no one has the right to tell a woman what offends them, many women are NOT offended by what offends others. By your logic, on woman could ever work at Starbucks because the first guy that came in and said, “could I have a cup of coffee sweetie” should be tarred and feathered.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 10:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @afrolito: I would have guessed 17. How come it is ALWAYS the people that disagree with you that must hate themselves and be deranged? Why is it that you think you represent the normal?

      I think you are so overly offended that you reek of victimization syndrome. Did your parents raise you to believe everyone is out to get you, or is it a conclusion you came to on your own?

      @DR: The agenda I would argue that they have is to derail DADT repeal or at least attempt to hinder it. They used these videos to attempt to prove that gays are not thick skinned enough to survive in a military environment. They desired to prove that if you offend a gay guy he will call for your head through the use of civilian means. They aimed to prove, in short, every single argument against DADT repeal, and so far the gay community is playing right into their hands.

      If you can’t even handle getting offended by an OPTIONAL video hour that runs one hour a week on a ship, how the hell do you expect to handle the frat boy environment that is rampant in any group of 20-25 year old men and women (women are just as bad) with way to much time on their hands.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 11:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wes
      Wes

      I loved you in ‘Rome’, Lucius.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 11:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DR
      DR

      @Jaroslaw:

      Meh, I’m not such a big worrier over words when used in a juvenile context, to be honest. I have more important things to worry about in my life than whether or not Honors used the word “fag”. In the grand scheme of things, his use of the word struck me as juvenile, and that’s it.

      I’m not going to worry a out anonymous PC thugs, either. They refuse to go public with their complaints instead only firing off videos to the press, then I don’t care if they were offended.

      If they truly wanted to make a point, they wouldn’t have waited five years.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 11:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PatrickB
      PatrickB

      @Daez: In my bitter old queeness, it’s pretty clear that when someone says, “that’s so gay” they mean that whatever they’re talking about is bad, stupid, otherwise compromised, because it’s understood that to be gay is to be bad/compromised.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 7:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PatrickB
      PatrickB

      And, the navy purports to have a professional environment, so how you treat people at work, not in your free time, is relevant.

      Jan 7, 2011 at 7:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      @Wes:

      Thanks, Wes!

      Jan 7, 2011 at 7:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #52 – Dr I have pretty much agreed with everything you’ve said and maybe I’m just splitting hairs; BUT to my way of thinking saying “many were not offended” is no more valid than saying “many were offended.” That is all I was really pointing out.

      Either excuse it as juvenile ( which I have said over and over I agree, it was NOT vicious but inappropriate), say it didnt’ bother YOU and leave it at that.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 1:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Jaroslaw:

      I can invalidate your experiences, because they mean shit. You’re an outsider, and have no idea what goes on in the minds of black people, and the mental, psychological, and historical baggage we all carry. Let alone the shit we have to deal with on a daily basis in a racist society. You knowing ignorant blacks who call themselves ‘nigga’ mean nothing to me.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 5:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Daez: “Did your parents raise you to believe everyone is out to get you”.

      My parents raised me to always be perceptive, which is why it was so easy to see how deranged you truly are.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 5:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Afrolito – You can invalidate my experiences “because they mean shit” ? Boy there’s a convincing argument. With that kind of brilliance, you must be in law school? Hah, try to take that nonsense to debate class. That says absolutely nothing. Now if I say I can teasingly say to a black friend “N please!” and they say back to me honky or cracker – who are you to say they didn’t? What is the definition of ignorant? Anything you say?

      I don’t think so. Apparently you missed the post where this topic was discussed in a major metropolitan daily and unlike here, where you are anonymous and can spout any kind of nonsense – people signed their real names to letters, were interviewed and had their photos printed. AND these BLACK people were not in agreement as to whether or not to use the N word. There was a poll as well, which I think was 50/50, but if my memory is incorrect, I guarantee it was not 98% against 2% for using. Yes, I’m anonymous too, so before you spout off about that, I’m relating my own experiences. I happily concede whatever I say here are my own opinions, which if needed, I try to support with reasonable evidence. You on the other hand, as has been noted, are saying unreasonable things.

      Such as “you are an outsider and have no idea what goes on in the minds of black people…” Well, I certainly know what is going on in YOUR mind at least about this post. You think you can speak negatively about any white and black person who does some (probably anything) you disagree or disapprove of and you have decided those same people are ignorant. Which as I already mentioned includes half of the black people of Detroit, about 400,000 people.

      No, I can never know what it is like to be black, and wonder if I didn’t get the job because of race or if I will be beaten up walking home from the bus stop by some skin heads because my skin color. I know the vast majority black people cannot hide their blackness like many gays can hide in the closet. I know that slavery existed and even after it ended for decades there were countless laws, especially in the south to dehumanize blacks and make (or try to make) them feel inferior such as separate drinking fountains, waiting rooms, separate schools which were nowhere near comparable to white schools and sitting on the back of the bus. Nor could black people join most labor unions until the 1950s; I actually knew a woman who owned a printing buiness, she & her husband had to drive north just to purchase ink. I spent many years helping a black lady care for her disabled husband; her father had acid poured on his penis by the Klan. I was actually the first white person to join a black group in the DAWC, whose clubhouse is still on Brush street and Ferry, across from the relatively new African American Museum in Detroit. It was purchased at a time when Blacks couldn’t own property in the city of Detroit, by two women who were light enough to pass. I know that even now taxi cabs pass blacks to pick up whites, and I read about a doctor, who walked in a white neighborhood who reported a white woman clutched her purse tighter when she saw him and crossed to the other side of the street. Yeah, I think I have a little bit of an idea, at least.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 6:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Afrolito – You can invalidate my experiences “because they mean shit” ? Boy there’s a convincing argument. With that kind of brilliance, you must be in law school? Hah, try to take that nonsense to debate class. That says absolutely nothing. Now if I say I can teasingly say to a black friend “N please!” and they say back to me honky or cracker – who are you to say they didn’t? What is the definition of ignorant? Anything you say?

      I don’t think so. Apparently you missed the post where this topic was discussed in a major metropolitan daily and unlike here, where you are anonymous and can spout any kind of nonsense – people signed their real names to letters, were interviewed and had their photos printed. AND these BLACK people were not in agreement as to whether or not to use the N word. There was a poll as well, which I think was 50/50, but if my memory is incorrect, I guarantee it was not 98% against 2% for using. Yes, I’m anonymous too, so before you spout off about that, I’m relating my own experiences. I happily concede whatever I say here are my own opinions, which if needed, I try to support with reasonable evidence. You on the other hand, as has been noted, are saying unreasonable things.

      continued

      Jan 8, 2011 at 6:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Such as “you are an outsider and have no idea what goes on in the minds of black people…” Well, I certainly know what is going on in YOUR mind at least about this post. You think you can speak negatively about any white and black person who does some (probably anything) you disagree or disapprove of and you have decided those same people are ignorant. Which as I already mentioned includes half of the black people of Detroit, about 400,000 people.

      No, I can never know what it is like to be black, and wonder if I didn’t get the job because of race or if I will be beaten up walking home from the bus stop by some skin heads because my skin color. I know the vast majority black people cannot hide their blackness like many gays can hide in the closet. I know that slavery existed and even after it ended for decades there were countless laws, especially in the south to dehumanize blacks and make (or try to make) them feel inferior such as separate drinking fountains, waiting rooms, separate schools which were nowhere near comparable to white schools and sitting on the back of the bus. Nor could black people join most labor unions until the 1950s; I actually knew a woman who owned a printing buiness, she & her husband had to drive north just to purchase ink. I spent many years helping a black lady care for her disabled husband; her father had acid poured on his penis by the Klan. I was actually the first white person to join a black group in the DAWC, whose clubhouse is still on Brush street and Ferry, across from the relatively new African American Museum in Detroit. It was purchased at a time when Blacks couldn’t own property in the city of Detroit, by two women who were light enough to pass. I know that even now taxi cabs pass blacks to pick up whites, and I read about a doctor, who walked in a white neighborhood who reported a white woman clutched her purse tighter when she saw him and crossed to the other side of the street. Yeah, I think I have a little bit of an idea, at least.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 6:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Such as “you are an outsider and have no idea what goes on in the minds of black people…” Well, I certainly know what is going on in YOUR mind at least about this post. You think you can speak negatively about any white and black person who does some (probably anything) you disagree or disapprove of and you have decided those same people are ignorant. Which as I already mentioned includes half of the black people of Detroit, about 400,000 people.

      No, I can never know what it is like to be black, and wonder if I didn’t get the job because of race or if I will be beaten up walking home from the bus stop by some skin heads because my skin color. I know the vast majority black people cannot hide their blackness like many gays can hide in the closet. I know that slavery existed and even after it ended for decades there were countless laws, especially in the south to dehumanize blacks and make (or try to make) them feel inferior such as separate drinking fountains, waiting rooms, separate schools which were nowhere near comparable to white schools and sitting on the back of the bus. Nor could black people join most labor unions until the 1950s; I actually knew a woman who owned a printing buiness, she & her husband had to drive north just to purchase ink.

      continued

      Jan 8, 2011 at 6:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      I spent many years helping a black lady care for her disabled husband; her father had acid poured on his penis by the Klan. (killed him) I was actually the first white person to join a black group in the DAWC, whose clubhouse is still on Brush street and Ferry, across from the relatively new African American Museum in Detroit. It was purchased at a time when Blacks couldn’t own property in the city of Detroit, by two women who were light enough to pass. I know that even now taxi cabs pass blacks to pick up whites, and I read about a doctor, who walked in a white neighborhood who reported a white woman clutched her purse tighter when she saw him and crossed to the other side of the street. Yeah, I think I have a little bit of an idea, at least.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 6:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DR
      DR

      @Jaroslaw:

      I can say, based on all the news I’ve read on this topic, that it did not bother a majority of the sailors on board, and I can also say, based on this letter, that it’s a fair conclusion that many gay sailors weren’t offended.

      Yes, you’re splitting hairs at this point.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 7:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 47 · DR wrote, “@B: I don’t need any more firm evidence to say the folks who leaked them have an agenda than I already have”

      You have no evidence at all because nobody knows who leaked the things. You are assuming someone must have had an agenda, however, people pass videos around all the time, You forward something you think is funny to a friend who forwards it to another friend who then forwards it to a friend who happens to be a journalist, and what do you think will happen?

      A plausible reason for why videos made years ago are only surfacing recently is very simple: more and more people have the bandwidth needed to share videos without it being painfully slow.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • missbaby4love
      missbaby4love

      Dearest One,
      Can i get to know you? my name is miss. Mimunna pls if you are interested on making real friendship contact me here;(mine4love2@yahoo.com) for more details.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 12:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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