How can things get worse for HIV-positive gays? By throwing in some compounding ailments: “A third of HIV-positive gay men have post-traumatic stress disorder, UK investigators report in AIDS Patient Care and STDs. Events including starting treatment, HIV-related illness, and witnessing an HIV-related death were all linked to the development of symptoms associated with post-traumatic stress disorder. Emotional responses to such events – rather than actual physical threat – were associated with the development of symptoms of posttraumatic stress.”
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
Hmmmm, I wonder if they post little nuggets such as this on bareback.com??
bobby
…waiting for some assholes to start going on about how they “brought it on themselves”. C’mon girls, don’t dissappoint me with the snark. Remember, it could *never* happen to you…
bobby
Ohhh, damn, and someone got it up before I could even finish my post. RECORD TIME!
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
@bobby: Not ‘zactly how you pointed your post, but that site is for dudes who advocate and engage in barebackin’…….those guys do kinda sorta bring it on themselves……..
bobby
Yeah, those who bareback tricks bring it on themselves, but…(suspenseful drumroll)…not everyone gets HIV because they chose to bareback with strangers. Just wanted to get that out in the open before another round of “thats what they get for making bad decisions”. Sorry I jumped on your post just cuz I perceived a whiff of that sentiment in it.
Jon (not that one)
There are those of us who sat at death beds while our friends and loved ones withered to death . .were left to plea with doctors/hospital staff in hazmat gear for something as simple as end of life pain meds. ..then had to watch while households were burned on lawns, remains desecrated & partners left homeless by “family”. . .
Try living that reality 40-50 times over. . .begging one President to acknowledge your very existence, and then the next one to not consider quaranteen camps for “known homosexuals”.
If you want to talk about PTSD . . . try talking to some of us who lived through the deaths & laid down in the streets for the research/meds you now take for granted.
truthteller
@Jon (not that one):
Jon, I acknowledge what you went through and I think it was a horrendous time. I remember people dying and ACT UP fighting for basic medical access and research.
However, I don’t think it’s fair to measure one person’s pain against another’s and to dismiss the one you consider to be not as grave because it wasn’t like yours. Finding out that a person has HIV has got to be a traumatic shock. Pain is personal and should not be invalidated or dismissed.
I doubt the people fighting for meds and access were doing it for glory or for the right to say PTSD, when it comes to HIV, was proprietary to those who fought in the beginning of the epidemic.
bobby
@Jon (not that one):
Why is the suffering of others invalid simply because yours was so great? Why would you even phrase it with an accusatory tone, claiming that *I* take the drugs for granted, as though you have any idea who I am or what I’ve been through. Has it ever occurred to you that difficulties with HIV still occur, that there are major barriers to care, and the the stigma for younger gays with this disease may be even worse than it was for you or even me? No, it hasn’t. Like so many long termers, you live in a bubble where you delude yourself into thinking that you *you* somehow had something to do with transforming a death sentence into possibility of parole. If believing this makes you feel better about what you’ve been through, then by all means, embrace it…but do not EVER discount the suffering of others simply because you feel that in the victimization olympics, you deserve the gold medal.
Jon (not that one)
@Truthteller, @Bobby:
I think You have both missed my point entirely. . .
I’m no victim.
Just use a fucking condom and don’t die. . .
Okay? Is that clear enough?
Good.
Richard
Dude, what on Earth does that have to do with using a condom? The article was about PTSD from starting meds. You got pissy becuase it wasn’t talking about the old days. What was the point?
Richard
Am I the only one who is taken aback by how attractive these young men are?
Jon (not that one)
“Why is the suffering of others invalid simply because yours was so great?”
It’s not, and that wasn’t the point.
—–
“Why would you even phrase it with an accusatory tone, claiming that *I* take the drugs for granted, as though you have any idea who I am or what I’ve been
through.”
I didn’t accuse anyone personally of anything, however, I’m horrified by the lack of history or understanding of where we are today.
—–
“Has it ever occurred to you that difficulties with HIV still occur, that there are major barriers to care, and the the stigma for younger gays with this
disease may be even worse than it was for you or even me?”
Absolutely. The difficulties still occur. . .unfortunately our young people now think there’s a pill for it. Despite all of us who try to educate concerning BASIC protection from a FATAL disease that has no CURE.
—–
“No, it hasn’t.”
So that quote says it. . .who is playing the victim game?
—–
“Like so many long termers, you live in a bubble where you delude yourself into thinking that you *you* somehow had something to do with transforming a death
sentence into possibility of parole.”
I hate to break it to you, but those of us “long termers” have something to do with the fact that treatments, support and research are available today. I have
no delusions over the fact that I had something to do with transforming a death sentence into a possibility of parole . .I know for a fact that the collective force of people who may now be negligible to gay youth did in fact transform that death sentence.
—–
“If believing this makes you feel better about what you’ve been through, then by all means, embrace it…but do not EVER discount the suffering of others simply
because you feel that in the victimization olympics, you deserve the gold medal.”
The thing that will make me feel better has nothing to do with some hairbrained “victim” theory, it will come when prevention and education that I fought for will be taken seriously.
Peter
No shit Sherlocks. I could have told you that 15 years ago after having lived with HIV for 5 years, fired from a job because of it, watched dozens of friends/lovers/acquaintances die from it, and trying to live in the hell of denial because of the stigma and a fate too horrible to face. I am alive today partly because of luck and partly because of the will to fight. I would also argue that many who grew up queer in the 70s and 80s have PTSD just from that horrible experience alone. The kids today don’t know how good they have it.
Richard
@Peter:
Ohhh, Peter, such effort, but you still get a Silver in the Victimization Olympics! The Gold goes to an elderly jewish woman who watched her family, indeed her entire race, systematically destroyed by her neighbors. And no, she didn’t have the benefit of the right to protest or the comfort of a hospital, albeit one with hazmat suits. Don’t worry though, you’re still beating out an rural man from Missouri who had to walk to school uphill…in the snow…EVERY DAY!
When you’re ready to acknowledge the suffering of others without first insisting that YOURS was the greatest suffering, others will acknowledge what you’ve been through.
Richard
@Jon (not that one):
(sighs) Boiling it into “wear condoms so you don’t die” speaks of a belief that condoms can effectively be worn 100% of the time, and that when those condoms are worn they ALWAYS work as expected. It infers that other means of transmission, like oral sex, don’t occur…a belief which I’ll add only exists in European sex ed. texts and the imaginations of gay men. Its a comforting belief, but obviously doesn’t account for the complexities of sexual activity in this epidemic, as evidenced by the fact that we’ve all heard the message but the disease continues to spread. Every time I hear someoen who has survived this disease voice their anger that “their message” was ignored, I whince. Tell me about how you’re “shocked that anyone can get it nowadays”, and I may even throw up on my keyboard. Those beliefs are an oversimplification that sound a LOT like what the uninfected seem to believe, except instead of swearing “it *won’t* happen to me”, the phrase is “It *wouldn’t have* happened to me *if*”.
Jon (not that one)
I know this thread is dead . . but someone might try to put this into perspective.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/09/the-survivors.html
Richard
Yes, the hundreds of thousands of deaths are tragic, but what does that have to do with the topic at hand? Its like you’re the embodiment of everything thats wrong with the AIDS establishment today. I say that condoms aren’t a reasonable means of complete protection and you say “wear condoms so you don’t die”. I say that this is an oversimplification and you post a link to an AIDS quilt article and give me a “thumbs down”. You’re not even addressing the topic at hand, you’re just pushing the discussion into an emotional minefield that you feel more comfortable in. You’re not helping anyone by reminding them how many have previously died from a disease that is (wrongly) perceived as livable. Tell people about what the disease WILL do to them, not what it ONCE did to them. I can’t think of any other public health effort that is this dysfunctional. No one scares people away from syphilis with descriptions of mercury treatments or discusses diabetes as though insulin had never been developed.