It it totally awesome, or a worrisome free speech infringement, that a Polish woman was fined £3,100 for referring to her neighbor as a “fag”? A judge sided with the Ryszard Giersz, who claimed verbal abuse. The judgment did not include forcing the defendant to trim Giersz’s rose bushes.
language
Is It Reasonable to Get Fined If You Call Your Neighbor a ‘Fag’?
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Tarcash
As I believe in freedom of speech, this is a travesty. Sure, she is rude, obnoxious, and offensive, but that doesn’t give anyone the right to force her to stop.
If anything, it would have been better to educate her about the word, rather than fine her.
Jamie
It’s obviously a free speech infringement. Europe doesn’t believe in free speech – take, for example, the legal category of “hate speech.” I would rather have freedom of speech, with its inevitable downside of protecting the speech of bigoted idiots, than have government decide what I can and can not say. If you use “offensiveness” to this or that group of people as a criterion for banning speech, then everyone is effectively silenced. No matter what your views are, someone will find them offensive, guaranteed.
Gay people should understand better than anyone the danger inherent in banning expression based on “offensiveness.” It would be the height of both irony and stupidity not to.
LikaStarr
I’m all for freedom of speech but in some cases even verbal homophobic scenarios should overstep that right. The old adage, “Sticks and stones…” does not always apply here – homophobia kills! That should be all that’s needed to be said but I know it’s not.
We have young gay teens killing themselves because of bullies like this woman. She’s in her forties and still doing it. Education is important to fight homophobia. I look at it this way: This woman got her education but it wasn’t free. Since this case is getting public attention she is also paying for the education of many others and that’s a good thing.
I also commend this couple for standing up against her outrage and having the balls to do something about it even with all the threats from their own township. We need to look at these two men as role models and start fighting back through the system.
Andrew
Since we don’t have any facts, it’s impossible to know: She may have said it in the context of an assault or she may have muttered it under her breath, etc. If it was in the context of an assault then I’m glad she was fined. If they were in an exchange “over the fence” and going back and forth bitching at each other, then the fine might be an unacceptable infringement. (Don’t know U.K. free speech law)
One thing we do know is that prior-constraints on speech are almost always a bad idea and at odds with (U.S.) free speech rights. And, a necessary result of enjoying a robust right to free speech is that we don’t “outlaw” words like “fag” or “kike” or “nip”, etc. etc. In certain contexts, those words might give rise (in part) to an assault. In other contexts, those words might be used artfully in critique or humor or sarcasm, etc. In some contexts the words are highly offensive, in others not. A given word is just an utterance — the context is what determines meaning and import and apparently, in the Brit’s case, legal liability.
M Shane
As Andrew says, it does depend on the law of the place.. In our system, we are understandably sensitive to our respect for free speach; it’s not the sort of principle that can be applied selectively depending on whether the utterance is offensive to us or not: that would set a dangerous precident. But there are other laws .eg. assault or liable which might be engaged.
Tom D Frog
Free Speech and Verbally Harassing are different topics. To Ban a word, gives it more power. However, if the old lady next door calls me a a derogatory term every time she sees me and creates a hostile environment impacting my physical and mental well being, then yes, her speech can and should run afoul of the law.
Freedom of speech should not infringe on another’s freedom to exist peacefully. Should my Freedom of Expression allow me to slap her?
Instead of a big fine, I would have rather seen her forced into a remedial Citizenry class. Something like Traffic School but focused on making her a better citizen. She has learned nothing other than the financial expense of cruelty inflicted on others. She and those close to her will now be more hostile rather than more tolerant.
IMHO
t.
sal(the original)
so proud of this guy,brave!!i hope things only get better 4 him
Bruno
My feeling is that “freedom of speech” doesn’t translate exactly to “you can say whatever the hell you want, anytime you want.” Now, if this woman merely called him a fag once or twice I’d say leave it, but if it went towards something more dangerous for the victim, I think it’s a good thing. The USA is WAY too hung up on this false notion that you can say whatever you want, wherever you want. Even in the US, that’s not the case.
hmmm
Free speech is very different in different countries. Many countries have free speech, but they do not protect speech as robustly as in America. This is why celebrities always sue tabloids in England rather than the US – courts in the US are probably the most free-speech oriented in the world. While I personally like the American system (free speech above all else), I don’t necessarily bemoan the fact that other countries that DO have free speech sometimes decide to value things like privacy, public order, or reputations over free speech.
If Poland is such a country that does have free speech, but allows countervailing concerns to trump it in certain instances, then I welcome the fine this woman had to pay. Poland is such a homophobic country, that I think it is great that the law was evenly applied to this homophobic woman as it would be to anyone else.
Tallskin
This isn’t an argument about free speech! This is a vile homophobic bitch abusing a gay neighbour and making their life a misery!
This isn’t an issue of journalists or a newspaper being fined for anti gay language, cos THAT would be an issue of free speech
strictmachine
@Bruno:
i have to say i completly agree. as a uk resident when i see the things that people like bill o reilly or rush limbaugh say on tv or radio im appalled that they are allowed to get away with it.
DeAnimator
If she was repetitively calling the neighbor a fag, yes. Freedom of speech only covers hate speech until it turns into harassment and takes away someone’s agency.
Me
Lest we forget, Europe has a history of hate speech spinning wildly out of control. If you lived in a country where 2 million people were systematically slaughtered simply for being who they were, you might not have such an absolute position on free speech.
purple burp
Of course you can say whatever you want whenever you want to. There is no denying that we all have that opportunity, but when you live next to people, its best to live harmoniously, so the fine sticks, but perhaps the person who was called a fag has to feel obligated to do something to? Like go out and teach people through example that this kind of rhetoric is harmful? Instead of being a victim become empowered? You know what I mean.
hyhybt
That’s just it: there’s not enough information here to tell whether she crossed the line into harassment, which is not protected as free speech even here in the US.