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Soon NC Doctors Will Force Women To Look And Listen To Their Fetus Before Every Abortion

The good news? North Carolina won’t be discussing a constitutional ban on marriage equality this week. The bad news? The NC House just overrode Democratic Governor Bev Perdue’s veto of a guilt trippy bill requiring women to have ultrasounds, listen to the fetus’ heartbeat, and hear the doctor describe the size of its organs and limbs. Then, as an added bonus, the women must wait an additional 24-hours before the abortion proceeds. Today the Senate is expected to vote on the bill and it has a good chance of passing. While we’re at it, why not have the women write a 3-page essay discussing the abortion from the fetus’ point of view; y’know just to make sure the women have really thought about it?

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On:           Jul 28, 2011
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    • Daez

      This is an amazingly good idea. Except in the case of rape and incest, abortion is the most selfish and violent act imaginable. There is nothing wrong with carrying the baby to term and giving it up for adoption.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      This is a good idea. Except when the mother’s life is at jeopardy or the baby will be born with a defect, abortion is the most selfish and violent act imaginable. If you don’t want the child then put it up for adoption.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chad

      I couldn’t agree more with u. I hate how supporting gay rights automatically assumes u support killing babies. It’s a shame.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nice Sean (formerly Sean, and Sean from england.)

      True, women should think about abortions before they have them, but forcing them to listen to the babies heartbeat and view it’s not yet face is a cruelty, plain and simple.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Katherine

      What about rape/sexual abuse victims?
      There’s more to abortions than a happy 25 year old who changed her mind about kids after putting the bun in the oven.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      It’s NOBODY’s business if a woman chooses to have an abortion, least of all mens’ business. So I suppose forcing an underage rape victim to bring a baby to term is acceptable? You can’t have it both ways, you either oppose abortion or you don’t, no in-betweens. As a parent, I would and could not ever force my daughter underage or otherwise to have a baby conceived against her will. Have you any idea of the psychological damage this does to someone, especially when they’re so young?

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      @Nice Sean (formerly Sean, and Sean from england.): Not as cruel as killing off a living organism.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      Katherine, if men could bare children, they’d be singing a different tune. I often wonder how many married men would rather save their unborn child’s life and let their wives die if it came to that? I know what I’d choose, my spouse first. You can always have another child or if not, adopt one.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      @Katherine: I agree with you. I originally included rape/incest in my original post then it got flagged.

      @robert in NYC: Its hardly having it both ways. It defining perimeters. I will agree that abortion should be allowed in the case of rape and incest.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      This only proves that the republicans in NC support government interference in their lives if they allow this nonsense to come to fruition. Bunch of fucking hypocrites.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      @robert in NYC: @Katherine: I agree with both of you in that given situation. However, I don’t think that is the case in the vast majority of abortions. Also, even then the mother should be encouraged to carry the baby to term if at all possible. I don’t think the child and the rapist are the same entity what-so-ever.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 12:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      @robert in NYC: I think most women worth anything would choose the child anyways. There is nothing more sacred then creating life.

      @robert in NYC: So, you think the father shouldn’t have any say in rather some bitch gets to abort his kid? Seriously, if some bitch aborted one of my children I’d most likely end up in jail over it.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chad

      Killing is killing. Period!v the only instance where it may b an option is when the mother’s life is at risk. It dosent matter if it’s rape, incest, selfish sex or anything AN INNOCENT CHILD DOES NOT DESERVE TO DIE!!! U folks on here who find a child’s life as disposable r less than human. Ur sick, disgusting murderers.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel Villarreal

      @Daez: Hey Daez, cut with the misogynist language. You have been warned.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • inoits2

      @Daez: Sad. I am orig from NC and this used to be a somewhat progressive state. Of course the conservatives have taken over…for now.. people voted for conservatives because all they talked about was job creation. Stupid people bought it…and now we see what the real agenda was.

      I can’t find a poll but when you mess with women’s right you can kiss your second term goodbye. People in NC tend not to be all that religious and they are more live and let live. This is cruel and basically a typical bully ploy by the right wing to excite their nasty base.

      I think abortion is totally wrong I wouldn’t ever want to force a woman to have an unwanted child. Poor child when they are born. Conservatives couldn’t give a shit about these babies after they pop out.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      @Daniel Villarreal: Any woman willing to abort her own child should be referred to EXACTLY how I referred to her. I don’t think for a moment that all women fit that same category.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      @inoits2: What exactly is so cruel about it? Seriously! These are women that want to abort their own babies. They shouldn’t let a little thing like listening to their baby’s heartbeat or seeing their baby’s face get in the way. After all, they do not let human decency get in the way either.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jack

      I hate the way they always bring up abortions and gay rights as equal political views, I don’t like the thought of abortion it scares me :(

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GreatGatsby2011

      Wow such ignorance from a community that espouses progressiveness. It’s not your body, it’s not your potential offspring, so STFU. If you don’t want an abortion, don’t have one. But don’t tell someone else they can’t because it’s none of your damn business. Should abortion be used as birth control? My opinion is it shouldn’t, but perhaps if teens were taught more about birth control and less of this “no sex until marriage” nonsense, then there wouldn’t be as many unwanted pregnancies. So please get off your high horse and put yourself in the position of a teenage rape victim forced to endure 9 months of a pregnancy that is a constant reminder of the night (or nights) you were brutally violated. Not such a great picture. And for those who would say “well think of it from the fetus’s perspective”, yes that is something the potential mother should probably take into consideration but it’s HER choice. Not mine. And to think anything else is nothing but vanity

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kernelt

      @Chad: & @Daez: I don’t know anyone who support abortion but rather the right to choose. What right does another person have to intervened in a private matter about a woman right to abortion because your ideology forbid it. Why majority of supporter for equality support the right to choose is because it’s a private matter and one should have a choice as to what he or she would want to do in the best interested of the individual and not up to society or any other person to intervene.

      One should live by their own ideology instead of forcing it on society and other, you can persuade other not to abort their pregnancy but not restrain a woman to abortion.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      @GreatGatsby2011: Outside of rape (which I’m guessing is around 10% of abortions if that) abortion should be a decision made by BOTH of the parents. Also, the woman has the right to chose, but laws like this would guarantee that she thought long and hard about that choice.

      I can get behind abortion in the first trimester, but by the third trimester when it is evident that through medical science that the baby could have survived outside of the mother then abortion in my opinion becomes murder.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • missanthrope

      Gotta love the sausage party here, who all unanimously agree that they are entitled to have a say with what women do with their bodies. Surprise, surprise, 9 out of 10 men endorse patriarchy, who would have thought?

      Abortion kills nothing but a group of cells, get over yourselves and your petty moral crusades over “babies”. You just don’t have a say in this so get over yourselves.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • inoits2

      @Daez: Of course! No one advocates that. But few abortions are in the third trimester and that’s because of a risk to mom’s life.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      @missanthrope: If the abortion happens in the first month or so then yes its a group of cells. If it happens in the last trimester it is a baby completely capable of surviving outside of the womb. Please try to tell me that third trimester abortion is moral.

      Oh, and the biggest right to life activist I ever met was my cousin who was raped at 15, got pregnant at 16 and delivered twins after a very difficult pregnancy. To this day, she would throw down with any woman who was preaching right to chose language.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez

      @inoits2: http://clinicquotes.com/site/story.php?id=285

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • inoits2

      @missanthrope: Now now, the baby belongs to the man too. However it’s your body and you aren’t a birthing pod. Forcing a woman to be a slave to her fetus is scary. If I were a woman and I didn’t want it, my entire body would scream that I am harboring a parasite. I cannot imagine that that would be good for the fetus.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GreatGatsby2011

      I never said that the woman shouldn’t speak to the father of the potential offspring about the decision but ultimately the decision is hers to make because it’s her body. Trust me, I can’t wait for the day that science advances to the point where the woman can choose to transfer the pregnancy to the father if they don’t want to carry it to term but alas that’s still science fiction. But the point I was making was that a third party shouldn’t tell a woman she can’t abort. You have no right under current American law, and thank goodness because losing the right to your own body is a dangerouspy sippery slope.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • inoits2

      @Daez: NY, MI and ID have the right approach.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chad



      Whether is late term, first trimester, partial birth it dosent matter. ABORTION KILLS A HUMAN LIFE!!
      It’s messed up when one can’t support the death penalty for a rapist and a murderer but could then turn around an support the death “penalty” for an innocent human child. It’s murder people. ABORTION IS MURDER!!!

      Jul 28, 2011 at 1:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Reason

      @GreatGatsby2011: It’s not your country, it is not your gays. why should you care that gays are being killed in Iran, Uganda, and other countries around the world? If you don’t want a dead gay, don’t kill one, but don’t tell someone else they can’t because it is none of your … Business.

      when it involves lives and basic human rights, it is everyone’s business. I think it is a great first step. what is wrong with making the mother listen to the heartbeat? A more through understanding of the situation will enable her to make a sounder judgement, whatever that will be. The end goal is to drive the number of abortions to zero, advancements in contraceptives will likely be the best way to do that. I am a huge supporter of women’s rights, believe that we have a population problem, but that is not grounds for me to ignore a baby’s right to live.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 2:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      Daez, if the father disagrees and the mother wants to go ahead, then that final decision should be hers. The father doesn’t bare children for nine months and plays only a minor role in conception,the ability to impregnate which takes a few minutes or seconds, nothing more and women nowadays whose male partner is impotent or infertile can have invitro fertilization. In the end, it’s always the woman’s decision to abort or not and it’s nobody else’s business, least of all the government’s to tell any woman she can’t have an abortion,let alone what to do, absolutely NONE. Government should stay out of womens’ wombs and reproductive lives altogether. If she wants to abort, so be it, if she wants to use contraception, so be it. It’s a personal choice and nobody else’s to interfere and certainly not the government’s business.

      I suspect this is all emanating from religious beliefs which have absolutely no business interfering in the lives of people who aren’t religious. They need to mind their own business for a change, in all aspects of secular life in a secular society.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 3:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GreatGatsby2011


      Jul 28, 2011 at 4:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve

      I like how these idiots think that women never think about abortion seriously. An abortion is not a walk in the park, so I doubt women are just gonna jump to have one.

      Clearly, if a woman wants an abortion, she’s probably already made up her mind.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 4:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jim

      I think The Onion did it better. I think it involved something regarding arranging a room in their home for a baby, etc. I generally believe in abortion-choice, but I always hope that women decide sooner rather than later, as late-term abortion is barbaric. It’s not a collection of cells at that time anymore than you and I are a collection of cells.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 4:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GreatGatsby2011

      @Reason: First off, if you had actually read my initial comment you would see that it was in response to the ignorant comments posted by some of my fellow readers, not the article itself. I find it morbid that they were subject the mother who’s clearly made up her mind to something like this, but I don’t find it wrong. What I do find wrong is that people are demanding the rights of living breathing American citizen be superseded by the supposed rights of something resembling a tumor. If I were a woman and I had an unwanted pregnancy for whatever reason I highly doubt I would resort to an abortion but that doesn’t mean I should take away someone else’s right to make that choice about their own body.

      And as far as your “kill the gays” example (as far-reaching as it), no I don’t think as a citizen of the USA I have the right to tell the Ugandans or Iranians what to do in their culture. Do I think it’s reprehensible? Yep. But it’s not my place to fly to Uganda and shake my finger at them and say SHAME!!! Would I love to sit down and have a civil conversation with the people responsible for this law? Yep. But if they don’t agree with me that’s their issue in their country. If the UN wants to get involved, great. But I have no power over other countries. So sorry, but your example doesn’t hold water.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 4:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • missanthrope

      “I think it is a great first step. what is wrong with making the mother listen to the heartbeat? A more through understanding of the situation will enable her to make a sounder judgement, whatever that will be.”

      That only makes sense if you don’t trust women to make decisions with their bodies and think that they need some “help” (read: coercion) along the way.

      The same bible-thumpers who don’t want women having that decision are the same people who also don’t want you to have the choice of having sex with your partner or me having the choice to fuck my girlfriend either.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 4:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay

      Aw, they’re going to force the murderous bitches to stop and think about the baby they’re about to kill?


      If you don’t want to have a kid, keep your fucking legs shut. It’s not that difficult. Murder shouldn’t be a form of birth control.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay


      Newsflash: Just because a person is gay, it doesn’t mean they automatically subscribe to the entire radical leftist agenda.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anna

      As a member of the demographic this topic is most pertinent towards (heterosexual women in their childbearing years) let me say that I used to be very adamantly anti-abortion, having been raised in a very conservative home, and never conceiving of myself ever having to deal with an unwanted pregnancy. I envisioned women who had abortions as heartless whores, who needed to be stopped to protect the lives of their blameless unborn children. That is until my own happily married sister became pregnant with her third child. The whole family welcomed the news, and then came that horrific ultrasound. The child was not developing as it should, it’s brain was malformed, and if it was brought to full term, it would probably only live a few hours after birth. My sister and her wonderful husband anguished over what to do for days, seeking advice from family members, including myself. I was surprised to hear my own voice advise them to terminate the pregnancy, which they did.

      The world is a complicated place, and I’ve come to the conclusion that some things are simply too personal for the government to involve itself in. What a woman does with the life growing in her own womb, in my humble opinion, is one of them.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 4:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981

      Disgusting, but not surprising at all. These conservative whackjobs around here can’t keep their noses out of our vaginas to save their fucking lives. A fetus is not a person. End of story. Its cruelty, plain and simple. What about rape victims? What about incest victims? Thirteen your old girls? Women whose lives are in danger? Have they even thought this out? Anyone who opposes our right to choose should be made to adopt every kid in the system. Until you can do that, raise, them put them through college,etc. you should have no say. You only care that it gets born, and to hell with what happens after that.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 5:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981

      Disgusting, but not surprising at all. These conservative whackjobs around here can’t keep their noses out of our uteri to save their fucking lives. A fetus is not a person. End of story. Its cruelty, plain and simple. What about rape victims? What about incest victims? Thirteen your old girls? Women whose lives are in danger? Have they even thought this out? Anyone who opposes our right to choose should be made to adopt every kid in the system. Until you can do that, raise, them put them through college,etc. you should have no say. You only care that it gets born, and to hell with what happens after that.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981

      Why am I being flagged? hmmm I didn’t break any rules…

      Jul 28, 2011 at 5:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • derp

      You anti-choice gay men on here DISGUST me. So much of the homophobia leveled at us is just a form of misogyny and you backwoods uneducated gays crying about a baby’s life have no grasp on the science, no grasp on the implications of your views, which lead to the control of a woman’s body. We are talking about fetuses, we are not talking about sentient, fully conscious feeling life forms. It’s complicated because it’s human life, I understand that, which is why everyone who is pro-choice also believes in making abortion one of the last options out there. Just because you can’t get it through your simplistic brains that most abortions DO occur in the first (maybe 2nd) trimester and CERTAINLY not the 3rd doesn’t mean you get a pass at your ignorance.

      And to the commenter talking about the woman taking sexual responsibility (w/ NO mention of the man of course), I’m sure you’re lived an entire life mistake-free in every sexual situation. Your hypocrisy DISGUSTS me.

      Solidarity with all women and their rights to choose and all of us working together to keep educating people about safe sex and contraception, if only to not hear from these little manchildren and their little misogynist fantasies.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • derp


      Newsflash- I guess you only subscribe to the ‘radical leftist agenda’ that actually put in all the work to fight for your rights over the decades, because it wasn’t anyone from the right or center that gave a f@#$ about us before then. Looks like you just stopped when we’re discussing the rights of other people besides yourself. Revolting. Go back to your log cabin.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • missanthrope


      Apparently it doesn’t stop them from being misogynists or working against their own interests either. The comments here prove that if nothing else.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 5:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel Villarreal

      @Daez: You’re allowed to state your opinion, but not to denigrate women or our female readers while doing so. We’d appreciate your civility in this discussion.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 6:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel Villarreal

      @JayKay: Same goes for you. Cut the misogyny or you’re out.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 6:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alex


      Why would you end up in jail if a woman aborted a fetus that you sired? What right do you have to force a woman to bear your child? It’s her body.

      The whole thing of men threatening women with violence to force them to act as an oven is disgusting. You dehumanize a woman into being just a device to carry your “child.” Your use of the word “bitch” to describe a woman further shows your hatred of women.

      If life is so important to you, how can you threaten to injure or kill a woman because she doesn’t want to serve as gestational host?


      Where did you learn your hatred of women? “Keep” her “legs closed”? So, what about the man who fertilized the woman’s egg? Would you use such violent language to him? What if the woman or girl were raped? Is she murderous because she doesn’t want to carry her rapist’s fetus?

      One of the things I’ve always found repulsive about a chunk of “gay culture” is the misogyny that runs through it. The nasty jokes about vaginas. The ridiculous homophobia against effeminate gay men.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 7:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981

      To those of you who oppose a woman’s right to choose, here is a scenario for you: I am a rape victim. Are you saying that if I had become pregnant from the incident, I should be made to no only endure the trauma of a rape, but also have to hear signs of life from the result of the rape, forcibly, to be able to have an abortion? That is beyond cruel. Furthermore, why should a man EVER have say over what a woman does with her body? Ever, for any reason? Abortion is not the same as going out and shooting someone, people. It’s a woman’s choice what to do with her own womb. Keep your noses out of that choice. The government needs to do the same.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 7:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • xander

      Don’t forget that physicians in religious hospitals, including ER docs, are not required to perform abortions/D&C if it’s against their conscience, even if the mother risks death and/or the fetus is not viable.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 8:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981

      Oh, and the same misogyny that some of you are spewing here is what fuels the disgust that the straight bigots have towards gay men. Two sides of the same coin.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 8:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay


      I don’t care about the man who impregnated her because he’s not the one carrying the baby. As you leftists so often love to spew, men don’t have a say in whether or not she aborts. If you’d like to give fathers the option of stepping in and vetoing the abortion, then they’d have some responsibility here. But as it stands now, men don’t get pregnant and men don’t get to decide whether the unborn child lives or dies. Women do.

      Where babies come from isn’t one of the universe’s big mysteries. Getting pregnant is a very real possibility when you have sex. If a woman isn’t ready to have a baby, she should just keep her knees together. Not getting fucked is a much better form of birth control than cold blooded murder.

      And stop with the rape red herring. Rape victims make up a small minority of women seeking abortions. Most of them are just sluts who would rather kill their own child than take responsibility for their actions.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 8:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JayKay


      “Furthermore, why should a man EVER have say over what a woman does with her body? Ever, for any reason?”

      She’s killing his child. Men should absolutely have the right to stop that from happening.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 8:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981

      @JayKay: No, she isn’t. You’re saying my rapist should be able to force me to have his child? Despicable.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anna

      I must say it’s rather sad to read the comments on this thread. I suppose it’s presumptuous of me to expect gay men to be more understanding of women and less sexist and hateful, but I am disappointed in the comments left here. The idea that there are legions of women using abortion as a form of birth control is preposterous. I waited with my distraught brother-in-law in the waiting room of a clinic while my sister ended the life of her own child, let me assure you it is not a pleasant experience. Only an insane woman would devise this as a form of birth control, there is blood and pain and deep emotional scars. The sight of my sister clinging to her husband and both of them weeping together will stay with me forever. My sister became pregnant the following year and now has a feisty three year old boy to go along with her beautiful six and eight year old daughters, but she will never forget the child she lost. Is abortion pretty? No, it is not, it’s horrific. But it is a choice that should be left in the realm of the individual, let every woman counsel with her family, friends and her God and decide the best course of action. I don’t know if I could ever do it myself, I look into the beautiful faces of my children and I think probably not. However, no government has the right to force a woman to give birth. This coming from someone who marched in D.C. as a teenage conservative for a Right To Life organization. But hey, I also used to be one of those “Gay people are going to hell” folks. They say, we get older and wiser…

      Jul 28, 2011 at 9:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • GayGOP

      I am strongly in support of this legislation. Indeed, I am more pro-life than your average Republican. This has nothing to do with women’s rights, and everything to do with the fact that we cannot determine when life begins. Until science can tell us the very moment that a life begins, we must presume that it begins at the earliest possible stage, and protect that life, or else risk committing homicide of some sort. To me, there is no difference between a murder of an adult and an abortion, and, until science can tell me that there is no life there, I will not, and cannot, find any difference.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 9:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker

      I do support this legislation. However, rape victims should be an obvious exception to this requirement., as are cases where the mother’s life is threatened or the fetus is not viable/would be a Harlequin baby or something equally horrid. Cases like that should be a clear exception to *any* abortion law.

      For the majority of people, though, this law would work well. If they’re going to kill something that may or may not be a human life (which is more a philosophical question than a scientific one, since it depends on the definition of “human” and “life”), they should be fully informed of the gravity of the situation. Most women who seek an abortion are probably well aware of the consequences, so this probably won’t change their mind either way. For those on the fence, though, this law might make a difference. If even one fetus is saved because of this law and raised by its parents or adopted into a loving home, it is worth all the effort.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 9:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anna

      @GayGOP: I used to hold your opinion and then life happened to me. Life is messy and unpredictable. Please, let us all concentrate on the children that make it out of the womb. They are being exploited and abused on a daily basis. Hundreds of thousands of children are without a permanent home and loving parents in this country alone. They are being parceled out to foster homes (with many adults they are handed off to only concerned about the monthly check). Their lives are not a matter for debate, and they are in need of concerned and caring adults. Was it better for Casey Anthony to give birth at 17 only to kill her little girl 2 1/2 years later? It was clear that she never wanted that child. Please think of the implications of forcing women to bring unwanted children into the world, only to push them off on the State, or worse get rid of them by violent means. And yes, sometimes even wanted children have to be aborted because their tiny bodies are not prepared to live outside the womb. No one rejoices over abortions, it’s a human tragedy, but this is the world we live in. I can’t imagine my sister having to justify her very personal decision to some court or panel or government bureaucracy. It is too horrific even to conceive of such a scenario.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 9:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alex

      Yeah, a cluster of 5 cells is a life. I wonder if some of you have any understanding of the female reproductive system. What about when a fertilized egg implants itself into a woman’s fallopian tube? Would you deny her an abortion even though the tube would obviously rupture and kill the mother?


      You’re saying the woman should keep her legs closed but have no concern about a man using any kind of birth control says a lot about your sexism.

      And no, I’m not that surprised about your sexism. You’re ability to describe anyone who believes in abortion as being a “leftist” says more about your lack of understanding of how many people actually support abortion rights. Poll after poll shows the MAJORITY of all Americas supports abortion rights.

      What is interesting to see is your obvious “disgust” with “leftists” even though the majority of support for gay rights comes from the left. You’re obviously one of those gay men who operate under a reality distortion, allowing them to believe that they really have a replace at the table on the right even though right continues a decades’ long program of anti-gay propaganda.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 9:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chad

      @Anna how would u feel if u discovered that a cure for ur sister’s baby’s condition came later after the decision to kill? It’s not up to u or anyone else to determine which lives r worthy and which aren’t. But ur sister’s case is the exception not the rule. The majority of abortions result from sexes craze men and women fulfilling their selfish desires and aborting their responsibility. The innocent life that ceases is a secondary concern if it’s one at all. It’s sad! I’m sorry for ur loss but u must realize that ABORTION IS MURDER in every circumstance. .

      Jul 28, 2011 at 10:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anna

      @Chad: Came later? The baby had hours to live, if lucky. Its brain was severely underdeveloped, and it’s the brain that controls all the other organs, there was no later. All life is precious, all children deserve to be born and yet hundreds of thousands of those precious children have no homes…And many thousands more who have homes are being abused within them in our country. Concentrate on the already born please.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 10:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vidur

      I consider myself pro-choice but, I do think there needs to be more restrictions on who can have an abortion and when one can be performed. I think it’s becoming all too easy for a young woman to walk into an abortion clinic, have the baby terminated, and walk out. However, I don’t know if guilt-tripping them into it is the best solution.

      I believe people need to live with their decisions, regardless of how good or bad the consequences are. However, I don’t feel someone should be forced into keeping a baby when they’re adamantly against it. It’s a very fine line.

      Honestly, it comes down to education. Girls, from a young, need to be made aware of how easy it can be to fall pregnant, as well as what responsibilities that come with it. On the flip side, boys need to be educated that they can’t go sticking their penis into any vagina that’s willing and, again, what responsibilities come with parenthood.

      Jul 28, 2011 at 11:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Laughriotgirl

      Amazing how a bunch of gay men who will never be in a position to have an unwanted pregnancy have so many opinions. Even more amazing is how they seem to think these opinions should actually matter.

      AS a human, a woman has 100% control of her body and her bodies systems. A woman can sign up to give a blood transfusion, get scared at the last minute and back out. She is not charged with murder, if the recipient dies. Why? because she has the right to withhold the use of any part of her body by another person – no matter what that person’s relationship is to her. Why should pre-born children be the exception? Why should the needs of the pre-born trump the needs of the woman who is pregnant when they have no such right to access the bodies of their mothers post-birth?

      Jul 28, 2011 at 11:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bun

      Did the God-is-stupid religion bashers migrate over to this post to pontificate about legislative control over a woman’s holy baby factory? Gotta love Queerty and the selective sanctimony of it’s readers.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 12:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chad

      Suprise buddy! There’s more gay supporting people who see abortion for what it is than u thought huh?
      Abortion is not about a woman’s body, a woman’s choice, a man’s pride or any of those distractions. It’s about an innocent human life and the termination of that life with no defense or a voice of their own. It’s the worst kind of murder. ABORTION IS THE KILLING of the most innocent of our human family. It’s wrong!

      Jul 29, 2011 at 2:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • xander

      @Laughriotgirl : +1. Can you imagine how men’s (hetero, bi OR gay) attitudes would change if guys ran risk of unwanted, unplanned, or high-risk pregnancy? You’d be hearing other points of view, absofrikkinlutely!

      @Bun : Not quite, we’re also seeing a influx of the frothy fundie Bible-believers posting here, with their handy talking points from their churches.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 2:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chad

      And because it is a woman’s body and the fact that the woman has to carry the baby to term, rape should carry the strongest of penalties. Why should a baby die ( abortion) for something it didn’t even do and yet at the same time be willing to spare a rapist his life? It’s insane!!! And it’s backwards!!!

      Jul 29, 2011 at 2:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • xander

      I didn’t send spam, but my comment is being held up for some review.

      Ok, try again, in summary form. @Laughriotgirl: Yes.
      @Bun: There are lots of fundie men here too, thinking they get to decide a woman’s rights, because they believe they know more than women.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 2:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chad

      The rapist should b forced to pay a lifelong payment to the victim regardless of whether the baby is given up for adoption or not. And it should be a hefty fine, enough to retire her and the child. The rapist should be on probation for life without the possibility of parole. It should be hard labor, having the worst appeal imaginable with all proceeds going towards the biological mother and the child covering the mother and the child’s medical bills.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 2:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tunatown

      I think what bothers me the most about these ridiculous anti-choice comments is the idea that if a woman has sex, is on birth control and yet the birth control fails (because no form of birth control is one hundred percent effective), she is expected to have a child. Even though she took all the precautions possible by taking the pill in the first place – if you’re in that one to three percent where the pill fails, too bad sister! Time to push one out for America.

      The ignorance being displayed here is just staggering. And as for this “it’s the man’s child too” argument – five seconds of ejaculation hardly equates nine months of pregnancy. If you think that pregnancy is a walk in the park, you’re even more ignorant than I thought.

      All of this hand-wringing over when life begins – you may as well cry for every living sperm that dies after being shot out into palms, sinks, socks and various body cavities all over the world. Until a fetus can exist outside of my body on its own, without the use of my placenta or umbilical cord, it can’t logically be regarded as a separate entity.

      Women who don’t want to have children will abort, whether you give them safe, legal options to do so or not. They’ve been doing it since the beginning of time and will continue to do so. But those who are concerned about the so-called sanctity of life have no problem with women dying from botched abortions, because they’re all just sl*ts who shouldn’t have sex unless they want to get pregnant.

      Hey, why stop at taking away women’s choice with just abortion? Let’s start sterilising the poor, the black, anybody who we don’t think should breed – and the rest can just be state-governed incubators. Squat ’em out and throw them into foster care – it’s not as if we don’t have enough unwanted and abused children already. What’s a little more human suffering – as long as the sanctity of fetuses are protected.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 4:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      tunatown, well said! How about having big government sterilize the bastards who rape women and underage girls for a change, in some cases, castrate them for repeat offenders. See how that goes down with the hormone raging male population and right wing christo fascists trying to impose their religious beliefs on every aspect of secular and personal life.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 6:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      ABORTION IS THE KILLING of the most innocent of our human family. It’s wrong! Really Chad?

      Then you’ll have to agree that saving the child and letting the mother die, in some instances, should be acceptable. As I said previously, you either agree with abortion or you don’t if you maintin abortion is killing a non-viable entity that isn’t even a perfectly formed human being that can survive outside the womb. You can’t have it both ways with certain exceptions. Be consistent, no cafeteria choices. Same as one’s religious beliefs, you either believe it all or you don’t, because the bible tells you so, no cherry-picking.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 6:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      Alex, at the root of it all is religion, loud and clear. They want to impose their beliefs on the rest of us, but they’ll deny it, just watch some of the responses that will follow. So predictable.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 6:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      Shannon1981, how about if all women called for a law to castrate repeat rapists and sterilize those first offenders, preventing them from procreating. I can just imagine how that would sit well with them having government telling them what they can and cannot do with their bodies. I agree with your position too.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 6:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      Derp, well said. Let’s also take a look at school girl unwanted pregnancy. I put part of the blame on their ignorant parents for their stubborn refusal to allow sex education in the schools. It’s not perfect but at least these children would have some information and perhaps prevent the obvious from happening. The republican party of course is dead set against that, but they’ll pile on their religious beliefs to justify it, equally ignorant morons that they are. I’m disgusted by the misogyny displayed by some here, absolutely appalling.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 6:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew

      Insurmountable stalemate. “What-ifs” cling to both sides of this argument, and a large majority of people aren’t going to change their minds about the core of this debate. The problem is that both sides are thinking logically about this issue: pro-life people think women who get abortions are killing , while pro-choice people think the government is exacting control over a woman’s body. Both stances are technically ‘right.’ I think people won’t really ever agree on this issue in the U.S., but we already have Roe v. Wade regarding the 14th amendment, and the issue is technically set in stone until that decision is somehow overturned. Some people may shift a little left and allow female rape victims to abort their rapist’s child, and some people may shift a little right to force more guilt on the likely sorrowful woman, but genuine change on this issue (like Anne’s) is highly unlikely. Ad hominem attacks definitely aren’t going to change anyone’s mind. I personally support a woman’s choice, but I realize that my “what-ifs” aren’t going to convince someone who thinks abortion is murder. I’m also sure that scientists won’t really be able to weigh-in on the issue because both sides of this debate employ logical processes (at least in their basic stances).

      Jul 29, 2011 at 7:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker

      @robert in NYC: Not so sure about sterilization, since the ability to fertilize an egg is not intrinsically tied to rape, but for violent sex crimes like that, chemical castration should be an option at a convicted rapist’s sentencing. Not mandatory, mind you (i’m very much against the legislature telling judges what they can and can’t do), but chemical castration should definitely be an option.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 10:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tjr101

      This story only shows the blatant hypocrisy of conservatives and gay conservatives in particular. You favor small government only when it’s convenient for you!

      As if women don’t think through the consequences of having an abortion, so the government has to do the thinking for them? That is basically what this legislation is all about. And it is equivalent to torture!
      A woman’s decision to have an abortion is NO ONE ELSE’S BUSINESS just as much it’s no one else’s business who I love and want to get married too.

      Another thing about conservatives, they want to reduce the amount of abortions yet are overwhelmingly opposed to sex education and wouldn’t give a damn about whether the child has access to healthcare when they are born.
      Some fools stated that women should keep their legs closed if they don’t want to have a baby, how about you mind your own damn business!

      Jul 29, 2011 at 10:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jim

      @robert in NYC: I’d definitely be for the sterilization of rapists. Maybe not for statutory rape though. I think rape is one of the most destructive things one human being can do to another.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 10:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matt

      This is just sad. I expected better than this out of the LGBT community. It’s incredibly depressing to read this sexist, religious nonsense spewed with fervor out of a group of people that should know better. The sanctity of unborn lives? Sounds an awful lot like this “sanctity of marriage” BS we hear so often. How can you people live with yourselves after saying this crap? A woman has an absolute unquestionable 100% right to her own body, and I cannot believe that so many people would dispute that. Especially here. I’m ashamed of the things that are being said here, and I apologize to the women who’ve spoken up in the comments for the way you’ve been treated by other posters.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 10:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      tjr101, exactly my points. Notice these conservative and religious types always make the woman the target and try to blame them for getting pregnant in the first place. It’s never the men taking the heat. But you’re right, conservatives only favor small government when its convenient and not putting them in an uncomfortable situation.

      Jim, I’m not advocating for castration or sterilization of males who rape, I just brought it up to illustrate that straight males woudn’t be too comfortable if women called for such a law to punish the men, ergo government telling them what they can or cannot do with their bodies. it’s a one way street as far as women are concerned, mostly males making laws and telling women what they can and can’t do with their bodies and personal decisions that are nobody else’s but their own. It’s about time straight men started taking responsiblity for their actions (a republican ideal) and use protection. Why should it always be down to the woman?

      Riker, I’m not implying that pregnancy is necessarily tied to rape, but in some cases it is and has happened.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 11:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • xander

      Those who most oppose abortion also oppose birth control, sex ed, and STD prevention. On the one hand they increase the chances a woman will have an unplanned, unwanted pregnancy—on the other they want to take away a woman’s right to safe, legal, early-term abortion.

      If the Chads, JayKays and Daezs of the US have their own way, we’ll be back to coat hangers and back alleys.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 12:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      xander, exactly right! And of course, the majority of straight men wouldn’t dream of using protection assuming that it’s the woman’s job to take care of it. If the three men you mentioned in No. 76 had daughters of their own, they’d probably think very differently. I’m sure they’d be perfectly comfortable allowing their wives to die if giving birth were a threat to their lives, ditto if they had daughters in the same situation. Save the baby at all costs I assume?I love the way they cherry pick this issue just as others of their mindset do with religion to suit their agenda.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 12:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jim

      @robert in NYC: @robert in NYC: re: 75. I understood the point you were making. I just wanted to say that that’s not a terrible idea.

      Jul 29, 2011 at 7:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC

      Amazing how all these right wing men get to determine what a woman can and cannot do with her body. Let them get knocked up and find out what it’s like. These same right wingers are opposed to sex education, some are even against birth control, you name it. Castrate the straight rapists or force them to have an irreversible vasectomy.

      Aug 1, 2011 at 12:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Amy

      Tunatown, very well said! I think one thing that is missing from these arguments is what is at the heart of this law, which is classism and racism. It’s not about “recognizing the baby is a human life” – it’s about health care profits, bar none. Ultrasounds cost upwards of $500, making abortions THAT much harder to afford for low- and middle-class women. Especially when you don’t have health insurance.

      Add the fact that some women have to travel hundreds of miles from their homes to find a facility that will provide an abortion, and you’re talking about a ton of money.


      Aug 7, 2011 at 4:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Artsy B

      I understand where men are coming from with the whole “it takes two to make a life, so why should one be allowed to destroy it?” argument. However, if you would like that argument to hold, here’s a challenge.

      If you’re so opposed to abortion, and feel the man’s rights are being violated, what about all the men out there who impregnate women, only to leave them with a child and no way to support it on their own? The men who believe that during sex, it’s the woman’s responsibility to protect herself if she doesn’t want to get pregnant, because it’s not the guy’s problem? I mean, after all, the guy can walk away guilt free, he’s not the one who has to worry about carrying a life for nine months, right? I really hope that those guys on here opposing abortion with the argument that it’s the man’s child just as much as the woman’s, would be the first to go out and wring the ears of any guy out there who expects a woman to protect herself, with no intention of helping to raise a potential life. If not, then stop asking things to go both ways.

      Aug 8, 2011 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rachel

      @Daez: i’ve been terrified of pregnancy and childbearing ever since i was old enough to understand the mechanics of both. if someone rapes me or takes advantage of me and i become pregnant, i will not adopt. i will not contribute to humanity’s overpopulation crisis. i will not allow the thing growing against my will inside my body to become intricate and differentiated enough to be a thinking, feeling human being. i will not succumb to gender expectations. i will not burden an orphanage. i will not mingle my family’s blood with a low life’s, or give a criminal’s genes purchase on a new generation. i will not risk gestational diabetes, high blood pressure, a hemorrhage, or an aneurysm. i will abort. reproduction ALWAYS puts the mother’s life in jeopardy, daez.

      Aug 9, 2011 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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