You know those annoying “str8” guys in gay bars who you overhear talking about how much they hate other gays? Oh, you mean you’re one of them? (Of course you are.) Then you sooo have somebody on YouTube who can’t stand you!
John, who attends parties at Arizona State University, vlogs and opines from his dorm room. He is also our top candidate to displace Davey Wavey as our most-posted shirtless YouTube gay.
Clemburke
Actually the first time I went to a gay bar at age 22, I was very disapointed, I thought for some reason they would be closer to my type (nerdy star wars figure collector and all that) but it seemd to be a divison of very fem and very butch,,it depressed me,,so I went back to Campus( UCF ) and just dated other students.
scott ny'er
wtf. i’ve never heard of this. gay guys who hate gay guys. umm. ok. seriously, never heard of that. of course, i don’t hit up the gay bars so maybe that’s why.
separately, this dude is cute. And interesting and i’d take him over davey-wavey crap any day of the week.
Matt
I don’t like gay men. I have a handful of gay friends but other than that I generally hang out with females or straight males. I’m not hypocritical though. I don’t go to gay bars and I don’t have sex. I hate the crowds and smoke at bars and I’m afraid of disease so I haven’t slept with a man in years. Just porn and my left hand please.
Fitz
Scott- usually the gay guys who hate gays say something more secretive like “i hate guys who lisp”.
Matt- if your not having sex because you don’t want to, that’s one thing– but if you are avoiding sex because you can’t figure out how to have it without getting sick, that is sad.
Fritz
I don’t think he understands the meaning of homophobia. You can not like fem little tweaked out twinks and not hate being gay.
Matt
Fritz,
I know to wear a condom but they break and oral has small amounts of risk but any risk is just too much for me. No offense to anyone with HIV but my family would be so embarrassed if I was positive. I don’t think I could live with that.
Republican
Matt,
Does your family know that you are gay?
Fitz
Matt, lots of guys snuggle and just use their hands. Don’t deprive the gay men in your area of your hotness! 🙂
terrwill
Another guy trying to become the next internet sensation……..however I am in freakin love with his eyes……..they are some ‘o the most beautiful blue eyes I have eva seen………..and PS: you want to become a real internet sensation: point that webcam down about 40 degrees……….
Matt
Republican,
Yeah but we don’t talk about it at all. After I came out, we all acted like it never happened.
Tara
AAAH! Matt! Sweety!
I know how that is. Happened to me when I came out trans. But seriously. Point one. Having HIV is about a LOT more than being embarrassed. Like will kill you. So yeah. Good. Be careful. But there are a lot of ways to be careful and intimate. The best is a long term relationship. But don’t avoid life to avoid HIV.
Fitz
Oh Matt– life is so very short. Sealing yourself away is a really sad way to go. I am not saying that you need to become a sex god– but living in fear sucks. And having sex vicariously, exclusively, seems very sad to me.
DeAnimator
They just hate the bar/club scene. And there is a lot to hate about it. But if they meant it they wouldn’t be there.
I hate commodified queers. No political leanings- all racism and consumerism. Disgusting.
Jon B
@Matt: That sounds kind of sad. I mean that in the last offensive way possible. It’s not intended as an attack. It just sounds like a sad way to live.
Jon B
Oh, and I’ve always liked this kid. He actually has interesting conversations with himself.
Bob R
I think what our young blogger is describing is not so much homophobia or the all purpose phrase, “self loathing gays” but what might more accurately be called “sissyphobia”. These folks don’t really hate “gay guys”, just guys who are so obviously gay, Ray Charles’ dog would know. From a distance. A good distance. a lot of people find effeminate behavior embarrassing. That’s our culture. I think John may be talking about a butch/fem preference by some gay men.
When younger I enjoyed the company of friends who were campy and effeminate. But I never had any interest in those friends sexually. Does that make me a bad gay guy? Perhaps to some. But that’s my preference when looking for a sex partner or a life partner. Is it a deal breaker, yeah, pretty much, but not absolutely. It’s a matter of degree, I suppose.
Helga von ornstein
From my own personal experiences when I was in the bar scene I remember the people I ran into who felt that way were the gym jocks who simply hated it when anyone with a pouch glanced in their direction.
These are the type who go to the gym, never talk to anyone who does not have a six-pac and “check out” the new members to see if they are openly gay before saying hello.
What lonely ass children the fitness craze has created.
sam
omg thank god someone said this.
I’m a fem guy. And i’m ridiculously happy with who I am. I enjoy my life. I shop, I dress, I prance, I dance and I make the best friends int he world by doing it.
BUT
Predominantly in my internet travels, on sites like this or other gay forums, i’ve seen people saying things like ‘oh i hate this sissy guy, he embarrasses us’, or ‘fem gays give all of us a bad reputation’ etc. They just stand there and say it. And it IS a kind of homophobia. It’s these, for lack of a better word, retards, standing there saying ‘thats the BAD kind of gay. only good gays are the ones who chuck around footballs’. It’s frankly more abhorrent to me than a regular old str8 guy who hates us.
It’s not ALL masculine men who do it. But there are a lot. And, as this vid attests, thereare a lot who still go to gay clubs just so theyc an stand there saying how much they hate everything about the gay ‘community’. It’s repulsive and offensive.
Mike
See, this is what happens when you ask a twink on Tina at a club to stop spinning so close to you. They grab the camera their parents bought them and make gross generalizations about the wider community.
what
i’m not effeminate, though i’m not particularly masculine either. i don’t bump chests and make grunting sounds. but i agree with sam. self-loathing gays are a sickness that needs to be eradicated post haste.
Stephen K
I dont like gay men.
There, I said it.
I’m a 22 year old gay man living in a semi big city. I have encountered SO much hatred and judgment from the gay community in the 5 years that I’ve been out of the closet. I’ve been called “fat,” “ugly,” “awkward,” “fem,” “flamer,” and a myriad of racial slurs from the so-called gay community.
I don’t frequent gay bars too often, but when I do, I’m judged the second I walk in. Guys will look at me, decide that I’m not up to their standards, and turn away, giving me bitchy eye contact and judgmental looks. Gay men will treat me like a sub-standard human being because I dont look like an Abercrombie model. To clarify, I should mention that I don’t hang out in gay bars and obnoxiously talk about how much I dislike the gay world, like the guy in the video mentions. I’m just voicing my opinion since the topic has been brought up.
If they took the time to get to know me, they would find out that I am a smart, funny, kind-hearted guy with tons to offer. But gay men don’t care about that. All they can see is an effeminate man with a goofy face and no 6-pack.
So yeah, I guess I am homophobic. I am deeply afraid of gay men and the vitriol they throw at anyone who doesn’t meet their superhuman standards of beauty. I prefer to not be around them because I think the vast majority of gay men are shitty human beings.
scott ny'er
this is for everyone but it’s also for Stephen:
let’s turn this into a hetero situation. Do you think if some chick isn’t model pretty or some dude isn’t model handsome, that they would be given the time of day by other superficial patrons in the bar? I think it’s the same story in any hetero/homo world.
Does that make it right? nope. Do I have an answer? Sadly, no. But people who don’t fit that ideal beauty criteria do find their beaus. It happens all the time.
Good luck to you Stephen. Hang in there.
Fitz
Scott- I agree– I think we expect to be greeted with open arms by the gay community after being treated harshly by the straights.. only to find that we have the same jerks.
Stephen- you have to find your own crowd. That’s what sucks/what is wonderful about 22. A straight 22 y/o who isn’t jock-hot faces the same snide jerks, you just thought it would be better— (because it should be)… All you can really do is try to turn into a decent old man who isn’t like that for the next generation.
Sam
Umm… didn’t this blogger have a big flare up in the last year because he posted that he didn’t like guys who “act gay?” Oh, how quickly times change…
Jamal
Although I am very bisexual, I don’t have sex with dudes because I am very, very cautious and afraid of getting an STD. Condoms are not fullproof, and you can still get some STDs using a condom. I am not willing to risk my life just for sex. I do have sex with women in a monogamous relationship though after I am assured they don’t have an STD.
Juan Carlos Alfonso Víctor María de Borbón y Borbón-Dos Sicilias
You need to tidy up that closet honey.
AlwaysGay
Sexuality and gender expression are two different things. John is repeating heterosexual ideas that sexuality, gender expression and biological sex are together as one. It’s wrong and oppressive. Gay men can have whatever gender expression and still be gay. Heterosexual males don’t own masculine behavior and it isn’t gay? men’s “place” to be effiminate. These gay men John speaks of are criticizing some gay men’s effeminacy (gender expression).
I feel your pain, Stephen K. At the same time you can make yourself more appealing to gay men by working out. It’s not difficult and you get the added bonuses of being healthy and performing better in bed.
Lex
Why is this something so many effeminate guys cry about every other week?
Some people only like guys(or girls) with blonde hair too. Get over it.
I don’t like ‘campy’ guys with annoying lisps and a penchant for dressing like a woman. Big deal. It’s not like I’m going to run up and tell them that, but I’m not going to force myself to be around them just to make them feel better about it either.
No one has to like or accept every little thing about every single person. Welcome to being an adult. Grade school is over.
Mike
@19 MIKE
You’re a nice one to talk about making gross generalizations. The guy that made the video is a college student that has made a lot of videos to try and help other young people deal with being LGBT. His mom is even in some of the videos and talks about how parents need to better support LGBT youth and their coming out.
@9 TERRWILL
He’s not trying to be the next internet sensation either. People of his generation make videos all the time without trying to be a new media star.
jessi
Maybe the guys he is talking about are referring to the jaded queens that frequent the clubs. The ones who have nothing better to do than cause drama. I hated them, but I used to be one of them. After being treated like outcast through most of our school years, we turn bitter and self centered. This turns into backstabbing because no queen is higher than you. It’s a sad cesspool some are willing to wallow in. Thank God I decided to get out and find real friends and change my ways.
Sam
um @Lex he’s not saying you have to like campy guys. He’s saying you shouldn’t stand there in a gay bar voicing your apparent disgust yet demanding to be around them.
myrios123
I like this guy much more than Prissy-wissy aka davey-wavey. Cute too… more brains than bust is always good as far as I’m concerned.
Honestly, I think as a community we spend way more time telling people what we are not. And to me, if you have to tell someone you’re not, then you are. Show me. Also, I don’t think anyone should be throwing around words like ‘hate’ and ‘love’ so freely. (I hate intolerant people – that’s a joke).
The straighter-than-thou’s of the world find out it’s a lonely existence having well defined boundaries sooner or later. I know I had strong opinions when I came out about my identity and I like to think I was mostly right, but I was wrong about what my circle of friends would look like and of course who I ended up falling in love. Don’t let your standards exclude quality people because they shop, read US weekly, or spend more time on their hair than you do.
jason
Gay bars are depressing sex scenes. There is little beyond the obvious desire to find someone to screw. Such a narrow focus totally destroys the notion that we’re about community.
benlayvey
Some of us hate the club scene because of the catty remarks MOST gay effete guys make when you are not from that “planet of hot aliens” as someone from Queerty boards once referred to them. You have only to read the comments on GuyswithIphones to know this is how the club scene is structured & yes such remarks are made quite aloud. This is not relegated to the club scene alone. This same behavior was on exhibition when I volunteered for the GLAAD Awards last March. We were there to help stuff the gift bags and escort talents but as soon as I heard what most of these guys whispered about when I walked by-I’m one whose sexuality is dormant until either I tell you or you glance the pride bracelet I wear-I seized attending any charitable affairs that will require rubbing shoulders with such men. We prefer to send our donations instead since then. I personally prefer lounging with people of some wit discussing the comedy that is life to Jazzy or Classical tunes. I often wonder if this behavior culminates from the Media’s propagation of our image into the gay community. Anyone have some insight on this?
timmmeeeyyy
Unfortunately, coming out doesn’t magically erase all of your bigotry, prejudices and phobias.
Republican
Some interesting comments here that I both agree and disagree with.
I’m a little surprised that so many seem to have such high hopes for gay bars. The reason you find so many guys who only care about whether you have a first class ticket or are trying to be a stowaway on the hot tamale train is because you’re in an environment where a large majority of the people are there to find at least one other person to share an activity with that is nothing more (or less) than a night full of sex.
If you want to meet intelligent and good-looking guys who want more than a one-night-stand with the guy in the room they lust after the most, then quit whining and try places other than gay bars. Note: I’m not saying that intelligent men always avoid such bars. It’s that picking out which guys actually have multiple brain cells in such a noisy and busy environment is almost impossible.
I do think there is a segment of the gay male community (some would call them the bitchy queens) that is way too catty with respect to looks, age, etc., when it comes to activities where such things have no relevance. It makes at least some sense for people to crack a few jokes if there is some ugly guy who is going shirtless and trying to act all hot, or if there is a model who just doesn’t belong modeling, but it makes literally no sense for them to crack jokes about the looks of people in other environments and professions. (For example, Benlayvey’s comment about the bitchy remarks made to those who were volunteering at the GLAAD awards.) I swear, arrange a meeting between a bunch of these gay men and Stephen Hawking and the first thing out of their mouths would be, “Oh, my God.. Can you say ‘fug’, girlfriend?”
stan
i wish this guy would put a shirt on while trying to make a serious point
benlayvey
@ Stan: Exhibit A
The Milkman
Republican is right.
The environment of a gay bar… or any singles bar for that matter… has never held any particular fascination for me outside of the novelty of being in an all-gay setting. I’m neither obese nor stacked, neither fugly nor stunning, very clean-cut and midwestern. So I can’t say that I have a great reason for my aversion to gay bars other than my own insecurity that seems to be amplified when I walk in. I think this is true for a lot of guys, even the ones whom I would consider the hotties in the room. You never know what battles people have fought and continue to fight in their private lives, so it stands to reason that the very environment itself would cause any and all patrons to present themselves in guarded, bitchy, or otherwise altered ways. Those same folks may be quite different when seated across the dinner table.
For this reason, I rarely go to gay bars alone. Usually I go with a group of friends, and I pretty much keep myself insulated within my group. When I do that, I have a great time.
The Milkman
On another note, this kid has really pretty eyes. 🙂
jimmy
From a misanthropic POV, gay men are as equal to everybody else in that human beings generally SUCK.
Once you’ve adjusted your expectations about your fellow man, you’ll be less disappointed in him.
dgz
this is the same prick who was posting videos about how it was stupid to “act gay.” maybe someone finally told him how effeminate he actually is.
Tylertime
I hate sloppy gays who can’t make their bed before shooting a stupid video.
Daniel
I’m guessing this guy got rejected and decided to take it upon himself to take his rejection as a rejection against the entire gay community.
jason
The problem is that gay bars are promoted as if they are what the gay community is all about. Impressionable newcomers thus get the idea that gay sexuality is about monotonous dance music, drug-fucked queens, and staring at people through the smoke coming out of the smoke machine.
This linking of gay sexuality to a bar atmosphere is an appalling indictment of our community. It is reflective of our failure at the moral level.
Tylertime
Jason, what bars are you going to? I find the bars that I go to in NYC and DC to be neighborhood oriented for the most part. The music tends to suck and their hasn’t been smoking in bars for years. Dance clubs tend to have people on drugs, but the bars not so much.
Ray
Okay. I will admit it. I’m the type of guy who goes out to a gay bar and looks around and says “WOW, I really do hate gay men.” It has nothing to do with disliking myself or having self esteem issues. My aim really comes from the years of struggle we have put ourselves/been through and, even though we scream for equality, we can’t even respect each other or even show approval of each other in our community. That is why I dislike gays.
I loathe the gay community because I watch daily as guys who are bigger, or not quite proportionate or not labeled as “grade A quality gay” get dismissed.
I was at a Club in Cincinnati recently (I do travel a lot for work). There was this guy there, pretty handsome, stockier guy, clean, just being chill and having fun. (I spoke to him for an hour or so, pretty nice guy). I sat there as some twinky boys walked up next to him at the bar and all he said was “Hello.” The boys turned and two out of the three of them said “EWWWW.” For no reason. We didn’t say anything, we both just walked away. Observing most him most of the night (I know kind of stalkish) I watched how he was just nice to people and having his own fun, while people proceed to just treat him like crap. So I took him away, danced with him and we had a great night. I introduced him to my friends that were there and we enjoyed the rest of the night. Actually the club closed at 2 and we stayed up like 930am just talking. Still confused as to why the guys were all like nasty to him?
Anyway, what we failed to realize in our community is there is a complete lack of acceptance between our own kind. Note all the other races that have gone through we are going through. They banded together, fat, thin, dark, light, etc. etc. They put their “looks” behind them and said we are banding together as a group, as a community saying we will not take it. I also feel we have given the wrong idea of what the gays should be viewed as. I’m sorry. Seeing some screaming flaming twink (who I personally know) scream for freedom, pride, acceptance, etc, yet while in school together, he was one of the most superficial and assinine people I had the opportunity to know. Does that make sense? Yet we cater! We let these people be the face of our community. We let people who can’t even accept their own kind be our leaders.
I find that quite ridiculous.
Maybe you might think I’m wrong, but remember, the next time you’re at a club, a party, a bookstore, a salon, say Hello to the person next to you. Learn their story. Learn the meaning of them. Learn the meaning of family and continuity. We might actually see some more tangible results then!
Sorry for writing so much, but this topic on the Ins and Outs of gay lifestyle really bothers me.
Ray H
Ray; couldn’t agree more. I believe that it has gotten worse, It’s almost like they let the cheerleaders and jocks take over the high school. And anyone that isn’t in their clique is to be reviled or pitied.
It wasn’t always that way and it makes me very sad that with all the struggles that we have fought, and all the sacrifices that ALL of our community has made, that ignorant, queer ingrates get to set the gay agenda and dismiss all those who don’t fit the A&F or Bel Ami model.
Sounding bitter?
Fitz
@Ray- I mostly agree with you, except that I think that the straights go through this as much as we do. Ever seen a nice, average looking 50 year old man innocently say hello to a 22 year old girl in a bar? People laugh in his face.
It does piss me off that there is so little respect for older gays. (being one, lol). The kids don’t know how we worked so that they could safely live together or go to the bars, or have access to HIV meds if they get sick…(for that matter, that we created all of the research money for HIV with tip jars in piano bars and parades). But what are you going to do? Did we appreciate the older folks when we were young?
Couver87
Ray,
I am the guy in the video, (John) And I could not agree more with your statement. I know I came across a bit amateur and aggressive in the video but it was to make a point. You don’t sound bitter, thanks for writing that.
-John-
scott ny'er
@ray
you said, “Anyway, what we failed to realize in our community is there is a complete lack of acceptance between our own kind. Note all the other races that have gone through we are going through. They banded together, fat, thin, dark, light, etc. etc. They put their “looks” behind them and said we are banding together as a group, as a community saying we will not take it. I also feel we have given the wrong idea of what the gays should be viewed as. I’m sorry.”
——————————-
whoa. no offense but that’s some rose colored tinted glasses you’ve got there. Surely, when looking at history, some have banded together. But there are others have not.
Let me give you the asian perspective. If you think that there aren’t asian cliques and sub cliques. You’re wrong. If you think that Asians who come over don’t look at Asians, who were born here (ABCs) who don’t speak the language, in a nasty way. You’re wrong. And you can bet your bottom dollar, this has happened to the blacks (ever ask what a caribbean thinks of an African) or Caucasian (history of the Italians vs. Polish vs etc in early NY, see the movie with Daniel Day Lewis).
Basically, in all cultures, there are a-holes and there are good people. The problem is, finding the good people. It’s hard to do but they are there.
And who said the bitchy twinks are the ones we wanted to represent us. I thought that was part of the whole movement. That’s buying into stereotypes if you think the bitchy twinks represent us. I know I don’t think of them when I think of LGBT. I think of the rainbow.
benlayvey
All this just boils down to the fact that we are all human and this issue very much embodies the human condition.
McShane
Gay men are often difficult to negotiate the waters around emotionally; Often they are passive-agressive and nasty.
After all the priliminary interest in other gay men is to fuck them. Gay bars are a the best place, in absense of bathhouses to make those trysts.
You don’t have to like their personalities to like their physical assets. There are plenty of nice straight people to be freinds with. If you want to get laid, plenty of guys with like minds exist.
Michael
im 29 and I dislike being gay and gay men. But I love house music, and the fact that nothing shocks gay men. Im masculine, and hate my mate or friends to be the slightest bit like a female. Wisps and bent wrists make my dick soft.
Im prepared to live alone, I get that, most gay guys I can spot in less than a second. Its not there fault or my fault. But I hate it, I hate that im gay. The straight life is so much easier, GUY FUCKS GIRL end of story. Not all this flip flow versatile crap, acting like a top just to get the guy you want. or vice versa. There are gay men that are real men. But its like veryyyy fuking rare. And im cool with that in a way, it keeps me STD free for the most part.
But the bitchy queens are too much, vougeing and acting crazy. Lusting after what they are not and spitting on them after rejection is getting real tired. I mean i know your mad because your sex life is with other queens like yourself and not real men. But either save you attitude and wait for the next life. Or be a real man and attract other real men like me. All these queens can suck my dick, I mean cant suck my dick sorry.
Law
While he is cute. He said it best in the video he “just doesn’t get it.” Perhaps if he spent more time at his school learning and less time spewing naive opinions, he would be better served.
Mike Barton
This cutie beats the pants off Davey Wavey! He does have some growing up to do so he can be as jaded as some of us, but he seems to be further along than Davey!
Adam
Why do retards ask questions like this?
Jonathan
I do not hate gay guys but I do not like what the gay scene does to people. Some readers above wrote how mean they can act towards each other. I think people can be nice and friendly and regular guys and you see them go into the gay scene and six months later they are totally different people. It is like the movie Stepford Wives. WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU?!? That is how I feel that I have never caught this virus I dress how I want and don’t have attitude towards people I NEVER LET THE GAY SCENE CHANGE WHO I WAS. If anyone finds this intriguing or wants to comment hit me up on myspace.
PootieTang
most gays suck. end of story.
sa
the gay barsonly care about money not gays.
why do bashings occur?
these gay bars are full of straight women who are amused by queers. these women tease the straight men who follow these women into the gay bars and challenge these straight men to have sex with a gay guy and falsey state gay men are looking at these straight guys resulting in gay bashings but if the cops are even called, you can bet your queer ass these women are going to side with their straight male admirers and say the queer got agressive and that the bashing was done in self defense.
some of these straights go to crowded gay bars with mixed crowds simply to set gay guys up for bashings as a thrill crime.
straight women have bars all over puget sound to go to but they want to go to gay bars and be entertained by both gays and their volitile straight boyfriends/male admirers resulting in gay bashings and de-gaying a neighborhood.
these women are not accepting gay men by hanging out in gay bars. at best, it is an insult to gay mem to be used a a tool to tease straight men.
bars trying to get straights and gays into the same places are trying to get every bit of money they can. avoid these places. most gay men who are brutally bashed are bashed outside or near these notorious gay/dance bars that have straights going to them.
the bar owners can say they support gays but when people are bashed and the owners do nothing to help identify the bashers it proves they only care about money.
only go to places that respect you. these places don’t.
EC
I absolutely agree with you. The problem is that there are a lot of bullshit out there and people just, I guess after several painful attempts, decided to give up. Or better yet, belittle what they can’t embrace. Yes it’s pathetic but the straight dominant society is to blame for that crap though.
Anonymous
Yes, There are some gays homophobic in our community. I do not consider myself better than gays. I want to say that I consider myself the least of all. I love myself and I am happy of who I am. It is scary. It is terrible. Oh, my God! Some gay dudes are stupendous and great. Some gay dudes treat me like a prince. Oh, there are some gay dudes that are tremendous and outstanding. They make my life. Hey, cute! You made me my day. I like your video. You have spectacular eyes! Thank, you my sexy kitty.