A 38-year-old Christian postgraduate student in the U.K. has been expelled after he made a Facebook post supporting Kim Davis and protesting same-sex marriage.
Felix Ngole is a former Cameroon resident who received asylum from the U.K., received two degrees, and became a teacher. In the post, he quoted a bible verse from Leviticus in support of his antigay beliefs as a part of a discussion thread.
After another Sheffield University student complained about his post, he was called to a disciplinary hearing. As The Telegraph reports, this is where things get…complicated:
He said he was initially not even told what he was accused of doing. He was eventually told that it involved breaching social work guidelines on “personal conduct” and “bringing the profession into disrepute.”
At a further hearing, a university “fitness to practise” panel concluded that he was entitled to his opinion on the issue of gay marriage but that there was a danger he “may have caused offence to some individuals” by voicing it.
As a result of the hearing, the panel had doubts about Ngole’s ability to be effective as a social worker, and he was expelled.
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Ngole claims that he was the one discriminated against:
“The way I was treated made me feel that their duty of care to me immediately ended from the day they received that complaint.
I am not against people who are in same-sex relationships, that is their choice, but I am a Christian and if asked for my views I should be free to express that. I didn’t intimidate anyone and I didn’t treat them in a discriminatory manner.
I don’t see how you can end somebody’s professional career based on something that is untested and unproven.”
Ngole has appealed the decision and may launch a larger legal fight if he isn’t reinstated.
We’re (duh) all about equal rights for the LGBT community, but there’s something icky about derailing someone’s career based on a Facebook post. It’s a little too 1984 for our tastes.
What do you think, Queerty members? Is it right to punish a homophobe or did situation go a bit too far? We’re dying to know what you think.
Sand Nierenberg
Could he be more ugly wait I’ll answer no he can not hideous
WillParkinson
I don’t see this as being much different from firing a teacher from a christian school for being gay. Or refusing to accept a gay student. Some folks say the schools that do this are within their rights, but when the shoe is on the other foot, they wail and gnash their teeth.
DCguy
The Author wrote “We’re (duh) all about equal rights for the LGBT community, but there’s something icky about derailing someone’s career based on a Facebook post. It’s a little too 1984 for our tastes.”
I totally understand why you feel that way. My issue is, that his chosen profession directly contradicts his ability to be effective. In the UK social workers deal with a lot of at risk LGBT youth. I can understand why the University would not want to send one of their graduates out there who would inevitably be sued or found to be in breach of their duty due to bigotry. That would reflect badly on the University.
WillParkinson
@DCguy: Brilliant answer. 🙂
nojam75
It is troubling that the complaint was made TWO MONTHS after the he made the comment. It seems his fellow student was searching his Facebook to find something offensive. However, it’s unclear what he posted. If he was posting that he supports Kim Davis’s position that she has the right to discriminate, then I can see why the board would think he is unfit to perform his job.
Paco
I guess he forgot to put a trigger warning before his homophobic post. The right-to-not-be-offended crowd strikes again. This sensitive generation really has no clue or foresight about the type of closed minded society they are building for future generations. A new conservative generation has been born. I hope their children rebel against the hive mind mentality and demand their unique opinions be heard.
DCguy
@Paco:
So it would be ok for him to be a teacher and social worker if he posted comments saying that minorities shouldn’t have rights, should be kicked out of the country or arrested?
Would that have been ok?
Remember, this isn’t somebody saying “I don’t like gay marriage”. He posted a passage from Leviticus, calling for the death of homosexuals.
“If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death.”
unreligious
Well Paco how about the conservative Christians that complain when ever a company uses a gay person/couple in an ad and organize a boycott against the company? Do you deplore their “right-to-not-be-offended” too? Or is it only when liberals do it that it’s deplorable.
Paco
@DCguy: So what? The Christian bible is against gays. I couldn’t care less what the bible says about anything. Why do you? As long as he is not going to work and and forcing his screwed up beliefs on his clients, then what does it matter?
“He’s a very bad man for saying something I didn’t like and quoting a verse from a book of fairytales. Let’s destroy his life. And anyone that disagrees with us shall be destroyed too.”
Paco
@unreligious: I don’t believe anyone has the right to not be offended in a free thinking society. Perhaps North Korea would be a better home for those that think otherwise.
AtticusBennett
he should be kicked out for being a Failed Christian. Christians DO NOT FOLLOW LEVITICAL LAW. if they did, they’d follow ALL of them. and they don’t
for a Christian to cite levitical law is for that Christian to essentially say “Christ failed in His mission on the cross, and none of us are saved”
so yeah.
Liam
Should I publicly post to Mr. Ngole those passages from his bible that my grandmother used to “prove” that Blacks will forever been inferior to whites and should be kept as slaves? Yeah, I thought not.
Anyone calling for the extermination of any group of people. for just being who they are. should be rendered harmless to themselves and to others.
DCguy
@Paco:
You didn’t answer my question, my question was, would it be ok for him to be a teacher or a social worker and say the same thing about minorities, women etc…
If he posted something calling for the deal of Latinos or women would you defend him and say that the University should have no problem sending him out to represent them?
Answer the question.
DCguy
deal = death
Bauhaus
@Paco:
So what? As long as the bible is used as a cudgel against us legally and socially, it matters. This man is in the wrong line of work. HE can go work in or for a church, where his views are legally protected. There are plenty of religious jobs and centers where his Christian views on SSM would be welcomed. His current position just isn’t a good match for him.
Liam
@Paco: Why care? Because certain people like Mr. Ngole have used that Bible for centuries to attack and marginalize Gays. (along with Black, women, and Jews). Get it? They are not harmless people following a desert religion.
Ani Kailash
The guy gets asylum and then decides to voice anti-LGBT sentiments and ideas. Not good. Shameful.
Paul Proulx
He’s an idiot.
Paco
@DCguy: The University didn’t get rid of him for calling for the death of gays. They got rid of him because – “there was a danger he “may have caused offence to some individuals” by voicing it.”. Apparently opinions are dangerous now. Just don’t complain when the day comes that your opinions are deemed dangerous because they may have offended someone. Ok?
Actions should be punished. Not words.
Xzamilio
Yeah, I’m gonna have to agree with Paco, here… I deplore this dude’s sentiments, but last I checked, it’s not illegal to have the opinion that LGBT people are inferior, and unless he’s actively using his religion in his work — or future work, as it stands now he probably won’t be employed in the social working field — I don’t have a problem with him making a Facebook post supporting Kim Davis. Because that shit can easily be turned around to police anyone’s opinion deemed “harmful.”
I actually do love this almost intolerant approach to dissenting opinions and ideas, because eventually the backlash will ensue and it will balance itself out in the end.
Chris
This involves the UK where (like most of the rest of the EU) laws do not always draw the distinction among thoughts, speech, and actions.
I may find this man’s statements despicable; but I will argue for his right to make them in the U.S. with consequences limited to stating that he is a despicable human being.
However, once he leaves our shores, he’s on his own(!).
DCguy
@Paco:
I can always tell when somebody has right wing troll tendencies. You love to equate serious and dangerous bigotry with “A simple opinion.”
You refused to answer my question. If he had posted up a quote calling for the death of minorities or women, would the University have had a reason to remove him? If you say yes, then please explain why you don’t believe the same for putting up a post calling for the death of gays.
And secondly, I love how you claim that he wasn’t calling for the death of gays, when he in fact put up a post that……called for the death of gays.
Nice try. And again, please answer the question. Your avoiding it makes it obvious that even you know your answer is B.S.
DCguy
@Xzamilio:
His post wasn’t just in support of Kim Davis, the quote called for the death of gays, and his schooling was to be a social worker.
Your comment about it being illegal is irrelevant because he wasn’t arrested for it. Schools and businesses have a right to make policy as long as it isn’t in violation of the law.
If somebody who was supposed to train waitresses at Hooters put up a facebook posting saying that women’s breasts were disgusting and women who had large breasts should be killed I seriously doubt you would be saying that it was a terrible thing that Hooters decided to fire them.
Xzamilio
It’s also not illegal to have the opinion that LGBT people should be killed… opinions don’t kill us, actions do, and while I reiterate that I deplore his sentiments and agreeing with Kim fucking Davis, I have a bigger problem with this environment that is cultivating where you can effectively silence or end someone’s career or prospects because their words are hurtful… that’s nonsense to me. Was there any indication that he would not be able to be able to take on LGBT cases because of his beliefs or opinions? Was there any indication that he would treat them differently? Because if that was the case, then YES, I agree with the decision. I am ALL for free speech, regardless of whether or not I like the person exercising it.
Stache
Ironic that he receives asylum from oppression and turns around with his own oppression.
Xzamilio
@Stache: Yeah, that is some serious irony.
Stache
He can be against same sex marriage all he wants. He went on to publicly call for death to a group of people which makes him a dangerous terrorist. That and a hypocritical cherry picking idiot which is reason enough to get rid of him IMO.
Doesn’t he realize that the same Christian shit was used as justification to keep his ancestors as slaves?
Ephesians 6:5
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ.”
Paco
@DCguy: lol really? Because I have thick enough skin from a lifetime of learning how to deal with the opinions of others, no matter how abhorrent, I have right wing troll tendencies? That’s quite a reach. I’m not the one making shit up to try and support a flimsy argument for policing opinions I may not agree with or feel offended by. Policing free thinking is in the right wing playbook. I find it funny you can’t see that.
Furthermore… I never said he didn’t call for the death of gays. I merely quoted the article saying the reason he was removed was because, once again for the reading impaired, – “there was a danger he “may have caused offence to some individuals” by voicing it.”.
I would have preferred the reason to be stated because he called for death of gays. Then it could be argued that he was attempting to incite violence or something. But no… Some special snowflake may have been “triggered” so he had to be let go. Frightening.
Stache
@Xzamilio: Yeah, it’s amazing how some people can be so educated and blind at the same time.
Stache
@DCguy: The KKK and Neo Nazi’s use the bible to support their bigotry too and are rightly called on it. Anyone who openly calls for the murder of any people would never be allowed in polite society again.
This ass*ole needs to understand that hate just doesn’t stop with one group though.
Stache
I should say except when they’re talking about gays.
Realitycheck
@Paco: In Europe there is no right to free speech, when some one says some thing awful in a public forum that some one can be castigated, depending on the country.
In fact in some country it is a plain crime to use some derogatory terms, so no it is not about special sensitivity but about respecting people.
More importantly Europeans laugh their boothy off when american talk about teaching creationism in school.
School is for science not imaginary fairy tales or worse Leviticus.
This primitive superstitious guy has no business being a teacher.
Hussain-TheCanadian
I personally don’t believe in absolute freedom of speech; hate speech is one of the most vile, toxic, irrational and disgusting forms of speech that creates the viable environment that produces violence.
I don’t like the idea of people losing their jobs for opinions, but once that opinion crosses the line into hate speech and incitement, you better watch out because your “rights” are nothing more than privileges that will be withdrawn.
Billy Budd
I was a teacher for undergraduate students in the US in the period of 2007-2010, and I was treated with utter respect and love by them. Times have changed and people cannot be bigots anymore. Being a bigot is dangerous to the school community. This idiot deserved to be fired. I say “Fuck him”.
Invert
Thing is, people that believe that the bible is the word of god and quote bible verses about homosexuals deserving death actually believe what they’re quoting. I don’t know anywhere else in society that people can say they want other people to be murdered and get away with it.
We KNOW that these people are dangerous-these are the people that deny us equality based on their ‘beliefs’ and who would participate in our murder if given the chance. Time to start fighting them back without gloves on- we don’t need to act like gentlemen anymore.
joeyty
@Billy Budd: How DARE you say anything good about U.S. students here? Be prepared for the Queerties to rip you to shreds.
joeyty
@Invert: ” Time to start fighting them back without gloves on- we don’t need to act like gentlemen anymore.” Sorry, you’re not allowed to do that in the UK. You’ll be called a “xenophobe” which, in the Brit gay world, is the most horrific thing you can be called.
NoCagada
@Paco: Hey, Paco…how about he goes and lives in your taco shop?
Paco
@Realitycheck: You are entitled to your opinion about the matter. I am not defending his bigoted beliefs in fairytales, the same fairytales I have had thrown at me all my life. I am defending his right to express his opinion. I just find it interesting that the university didn’t seem to really be bothered by the opinion. They were more concerned that someone “may” be offended by it. They couldn’t even make the claim that anyone was offended. Higher education is supposed to be the place that challenges your singular views of the world and expands your mind to other ideas. They missed an opportunity with him and others, in my opinion.
The university is of course within their right to dismiss anyone for whatever reason I suppose. I would prefer differing opinions and ideologies be debated and challenged rather than squelched or punished. I guess those days are long over.
As far as the lack of free speech rights in Europe is concerned… I found a paragraph in the Telegraph article interesting when it referenced a similar case of anti-gay bigotry where a high court justice in England ruled that no one has the right not to be offended and that, offence, was a necessary part of free speech.
Sean Brennan
If he had been sharing his views in person at the workplace or with coworkers via Facebook message I would recommend expulsion.
If the statements were JUST support for a belief in traditional marriage and NOT incendiary hate speech they may have gone too far. But I do see how such beliefs would make it hard for him to be an effective social worker, so I can see their choice to dump him.
Mickey30981
@DCguy: Thats fair DC, but we ALL have prejudices in all things , yet we are expected to put them aside in our professional lives. If all schools were to expel those who had an a philosophical or religious opinion, we would not have judges, lawyers, actors, doctors. This is simply censorship. A college education is not about protection from differing biases and prejudices, its about learning to recognize the and to act professionally in a chosen career.
Alistair Wiseman
@Hussain-TheCanadian:
If that is the way you feel, you would find alot of college professors and faculty without jobs.
Scott Amundsen
If he were not planning a career as a social worker, his idiotic post on social media might be just that, a moment of idiocy. But I can very well understand the implications to the university of a student in social work holding the kind of extreme ideas that could cause him to be an ineffective and even dangerous person to have in his particular field.
Richard Lee Zweiben Klein
Good. Remember your a target to being black a minority such as gays and lesbians transgender
yoichisan
Is he not knowledgeable enough to know that same sex marriage is not even a pure marriage that should be conducted inside the church and with the blessing of the priest or pastor? Its just a union ceremony so gay couple can have the same rights and benefits of being a married couple @.@
You should know the bible well when youre quoting it! Youre judging people just because they sin differently from you.
The bible also states that divorce is not allowed and so does eating pork and even premarital sex!
But above all these! Let me tell you one thing thats so obvious but people like this guy is not even aware
NOT EVERYBODY IS A CHRISTIAN! Why would you assume that all gay couples are Christian? And thus you have the power to enforce your beliefs on them!
In the end the reasons why HE SHOULD BE KICKED OUT OF HIS CAREER is because he lacks the sensitivity to other people’s feelings( he is a social worker so like WTF?)
He is definitely close minded, yes youre just practicing your beliefs but dude quoting a single sin just because youre not doing it is entirely selfish!
Remember that we are all sinners! Theres lots of sins in the bible that in some ways youre commiting yet youre not persecuted!
Kevin Wotipka
Everybody’s entitled to their own stupid opinion.
XzamiIio
@Richard Lee Zweiben Klein: Shut up faggot.
RIck Dean
I’m glad he’s gone.
Bobby Chandler
Such a good Christian. Where are the lions when you need them?
girldownunder
The guy is teaching at a “progressive/accepting of all people” uni.
Like Kim Davis, if he wants to be a bigot– go work for a bigoted gov’t (Uganda?) or uni (there are many religious-affiliated) but don’t accept a job & then feel you have the right to bend the workplace to your particular discriminatory ideas.
Frankie Trice
I guess from that sign, if we avoid the missionary position, we are okay… And the New Testament only forbids being effeminate, so if we are butch about it, we are also okay. I’m glad I’m part of the Bear Community, but who wouldn’t want us cuddly ones in Heaven.
Ben Stimpson
I’ve read other reports on this. As much as I dislike his view, he is and should be free to voice it. However, as a social worker, his view does run counter to social work code of ethics. I think what’s troubling, as Queerty so rightly points out, is that this view on his private facebook *may* cause offense… but is that really grounds to expell him from his career, especially if his career is not working directly with LGBT people (in that his client’s sexual orientation is irrelevant to the work he does). I think we as a community need to see the hypocrisy in allowing something like this from happening, after all our detractors say that our Pride Marches offend them, especially the nudity… we would be the first to protest if anyone stopped LGBT related stuff because it *could* offend someone.
Invert
@XzamiIio: you know that WE all know that all this abusive homophobic dirty talk is how you get your rocks off, right?
Fap away.
Rimminit
It’s about time the religious bigots get austracized for their hateful rhetoric!!!
Dakotahgeo
Simple. Strip him of his asylum papers and he won’t have a legal or any other leg to stand on. Send him back to the hinterlands of Africa!
Transiteer
What Marvel Comics edition of the Bible did the hefty bimbo in the photo get her ‘quote’ from?? Maybe she can’t read. Certainly can’t transcribe.
To the “Christian” student (aka hateful a**hole), I’m glad you’re gone – if you can’t show compassion and charity, and lose your judgement on others, you should have your ass tossed out. Fake religion invented by Ancient Romans in an effort to quell those rebellious Jews – you want a Messiah, we’ll give you one, he’s already been and is dead and he was a pacifist. Lose the attitude while you’re “out” there.
joeyty
@Frankie Trice: You have to admit some “bears” are pretty effeminate. (They act like Dom DeLuise fussing around the stove).
joeyty
This is all the UK’s problem anyway. And the UK is so on the way out anyway.
Xzamilio
@Invert: You were responding to a troll account of me, dude believe it or not, I am very much anti-homophobe, but very much pro-free speech, and as loathsome as I find this man’s views, I do not think his Facebook post alone was grounds to disqualify him from being a social worker, unless there was reasonable evidence that his personal views would dictate the way he treated possible LGBT cases.
Xzamilio
And by that I mean on previous stories… I’m the only Xzamilio on here. I know because I saw you responding to that troll on another story.
You see what these trolls do?? As if I need help making myself look bad lol
Xzamilio
@Invert: I stand corrected… I see that troll Xzamilio with that sexy ass profile pic. Just flag him… it’s a spoof account of me.
Kathy Buchanan
This is appalling. I may not agree with his stance on gay marriage but he should be allowed to exercise freedom of speech… this is too far
Alex Rothwell
I don’t feel he should be expelled. I don’t fallow his thoughts but he has a right to express on face book what every he wants. Maybe one day he’ll change his mind.
William Thomas Bramlett II
tasha
So his excuse is that he is Christian and is entitled to his opinion…
Let’s put the shoe on the other foot shall we?
Many religion based schools have fired teachers for SUPPORTING gay marriage, being gay, expelled gay students, and refused to accept students who are gay.
So… they can pass judgement, destroy someone’s career, and deny someone their education all based on their opinion….
But God forbid they are treated the same way?
Yeah… bunch of hypocrites.
I think if they can treat people that way for being gay, they should be able to handle the heat when the same treatment is offered to them.
DCguy
@Paco:
And again, just to clarify, that was you avoiding my simple question.
Would you be defending him so strongly if he put up a post with a quote calling for the death of women or minorities instead of gay people. You don’t seem to want to answer that.
DCguy
@Mickey30981:
But see, you all keep trying to sanitize this.
His “opinion” isn’t that an abused teen should try excersize before medication to deal with moderate depression, and his colleagues dissagree. His “opinion” calls for the death of an entire group of people and he is in school to be a social worker.
If you think a school for social work shouldn’t be confused over a post calling for genocide of a minority geoup, please explain.
DCguy
@DCguy:
Confused = concerned
girldownunder
@Ben Stimpson: I’d agree, except that if this is what the guy truly believes, would you want him “counseling” your just-coming-out, teen? He knows very well where his uni stands on LGBTI issues.
I’d say that it would be quite a lot to say that you believe the guy could completely divide his very strong, religious views from how he counsels.
Basically, that sort of thing needs to be OFF a public facing FB page. Keeping it there & the uni not acting would be tantamount to agreeing.
Eric Ernsberger
I don’t think they did the right thing. Better to uphold our rights of free speech. Unless he was advocating acts of terror against us(gay people) We should rise above any revenge ideology .
DCFarmboy
Sheffield University has a religious character. Two bishops serve as ex-officio members of its governing board. The University’s religious freedom should allow it to discriminate against homophobes whose behavior the University judges to be against the University’s religious principles of love and decency.
avw7
He is training to be a SOCIAL WORKER. Social Work schools have every right to expel people for not adhering to their professional values. Allowing a dude like this to work in a welfare office and deny anybody who’s gay is unacceptable.
DCguy
@Eric Ernsberger: You stated : “I don’t think they did the right thing. Better to uphold our rights of free speech. Unless he was advocating acts of terror against us(gay people) We should rise above any revenge ideology”
Just a few responses.
1. The right of Free Speech means that the govt. can’t arrest you for disagreeing with them, it does not mean that a business or school can’t fire or kick you out for violating their own policies. e.g if a waitress at a steakhouse is standing outside the restaurant telling people that eating meat is bad for them, she has the right to say that, but the restaurant has the right to fire her.
2. Free Speech is an irrelevant argument anyway because the UK doesn’t have the same right. You CAN be taken to task for saying things against others and groups.
3. You say that it should only be done if he was advocating acts of terror against LGBTs. Um………the quote he posted is from Leviticus and calls for gays to be killed. Explain how that isn’t advocating violence?
4. We should rise above revenge ideology? So in other words, people can attack and call for our deaths, but us responding is bullying and a revenge ideology?
and lastly
5. If he had put up a post calling for the death of Asians, Latinos, Women, African Americans I SERIOUSLY doubt you would have a bunch of women or racial minorities clutching their pearls in horror that the man who called for their deaths was dismissed from a social worker program. Please explain why you feel that LGBTs are less deserving of protection from people calling for their murder than anybody else?
Paco
@DCguy: I already answered your question, but for some reason things must be spelled out for you. He quoted the bible like millions of Christians do and have done everyday since forever. I don’t care what mythical verses he or anyone quotes from that book because it has no power over me or my life. You give it more power than it deserves.
DCguy
@Paco:
You didn’t answer the question. I asked very plainly, if he put up a quote calling for the death of OTHER groups, such as women, Asians, African Americans, Latinos etc…. if you would still feel that the university had no right to remove him.
And you keep avoiding the answer, and attempt to keep minimizing the quote. He posted a quote calling for homosexuals to be put to death. If the quote said All Asians, or all Women should be put to death would you be saying that the university had no right to kick him out?
Claiming you have answered the question doesn’t make it true, if you really did answer it feel free to cut and paste that answer.
Paco
@DCguy: I won’t be drawn into rhetorical “what ifs”. He quoted a bible verse. Unless you are calling for all Christians that have ever quoted bible verses you don’t like to be fired from their jobs, why does this one idiot bother you so much?
DCguy
@Paco:
So that was you not answering the question again right?
You claimed you answered my question, I said, if you had then no problem, simply cut and paste it. You have continually refused. Why do you keep engaging in the conversation when you can’t answer the simple question of:
If the quote he pasted said All Asians, or all Women should be put to death instead of gays would you be saying that the university had no right to kick him out?
If you can’t answer, that seems to indicate that you think there is a difference, and if that is the case maybe you have some self examination to do.
Paco
@DCguy: You not liking my answer doesn’t equate me not answering. Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you. I keep “engaging in conversation” because you keep engaging me. But now that you mention it, I must ask myself why. You are arguing both of our sides apparently by leading with irrelevant “what if” questions. Sorry you aren’t getting the answer you wanted.
Some in our community are becoming the very thing we are fighting against. I hope they are the minority in our group because it wears just as ugly on us as it does our enemies.
DCguy
@Paco:
I can’t like or dislike your answer because you never provided it.
Again, if you really answered the question before, there should be no trouble for you to cut and paste it, or to answer it again. The fact that you are unable to do that makes it very clear. So again, what was your answer? If you feel differently about it if he called for the deaths of women, or minorities, than you do about him calling for the deaths of LGBTs, I would be interested in your reasoning.
And again, if you don’t want to answer the question that is fine, but please stop claiming you answered it, you didn’t. You could easily prove me wrong on that by simply taking 5 seconds and cutting and pasting your answer.
Paco
@DCguy: one last time…
He didn’t outright call for the death of gays. He quoted an obscure bible verse, that even members and allies of our own cause have raised questions about its true meaning when applied to a long dead society. Why do I need to cut and paste when you can easily read every reply I have made to you. If you go after him for quoting an obscure bible quote on his Facebook page that many, MANY Christians have quoted, then I can only assume that you also intend to go after the jobs of all Christians that have ever used the quote. That is a path I refuse to go down because it will damage all of us in the long run.
I’m not interested in revenge. Only understanding.
Sticks and stones and stuff…
Good day to you.
GG
Ngole said, “I don’t see how you can end somebody’s professional career based on something that is untested and unproven.”
I agree. We should never do anything based upon things that are untested and unproven. Like, for instance, bible verses.
DCguy
@Paco: you stated :He didn’t outright call for the death of gays. He quoted an obscure bible verse, that even members and allies of our own cause have raised questions about its true meaning when applied to a long dead society.”
Ok, wow, so he quoted an obscure Biblical verse? Really? So the verse that pretty much every anti – LGBT group uses is obscure? Just so the others here understand exactly what it is you’re trying to sanitize, let me post it.
“If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. ”
So two things. First, why are you trying to sanitize what he said? What do you gain from that?
Secondly, you still haven’t answered the question, change “Man” to Asian, or Woman, or Black, and let me know if you would still be arguing so hard that what he said shouldn’t have gotten him dismissed from a Social Worker degree program.
Invert
@Paco: yes, understanding. I hope the people that have oppressed, vilified, bullied, denied rights,
tortured and murdered gays for millenia understand via a guy losing his job or some shithead going to court over not making a cake understand what it’s like to have the tactics THEY taught us used against them. That’s right, being fired for an opinion or a lifestyle- whether that’s a gay or christian lifestyle- isn’t a good thing. How long have we been saying that?
Don’t like how someone else lives their life? Sack ’em. Disagree with someone else’s opinion? Quote some dogma and socially ostracise them. We got it. This is the way the world works, right? Are these the rules of engagement or not?
If not, is NOBODY going to be sacked for an opinion or a lifestyle in future?
*real Xamillo, I should have qualified that I was responding to wannabexamillo before, sorry.
Paco
@Invert: being a minority group, we must rely on legislated acceptance and as other minority groups can attest to, legislated acceptance can be tenuous. The tactics of discrimination, oppression and marginalization that work for a majority only work because they are a majority. Those same tactics aren’t going to work as well in the hands of a minority. We need social acceptance and that can’t be forced.
Paco
@Paco: *can’t be forced in a free society. I meant to say.
DCguy
@Paco:
Actually it can be forced, the Supreme Court forced interracial marriage on the country in spite of the fact that the majority of people for example in the South were opposed to it.
Paco
@DCguy: The fact that there are people that still make comments against interracial marriage proves it can’t be forced. You are speaking of legislated acceptance. That can be forced. Social acceptance can be guided but not forced. Ask the families of the dead black kids killed for walking home with skittles and an iced tea while their killer gets to walk away, how protected and accepted they feel in our society of civil rights laws. Legislated acceptance can only take you so far.
Invert
Oh yeah, Respectability Politics. No thanks. I’m happy for us to play as dirty as them.
1EqualityUSA
whatawadwhatawadwhatawadwhatawad
DCguy
@Paco:
No actually the fact that there are legal interracial marriages when some people are against it shows it can be forced.
But also you still keep refusing to answer my question on why calling for gays deaths isn’t a problem and would you feel the same way if he had called for the death if women, African Americans, Asians, etc…
Paco
@DCguy: man you are a special kind of stupid. Forcing someone to marry two people by law is legislated acceptance. It doesn’t make that person agree with or like it, nor does it stop them from treating you like shit. Social acceptance means they have no problem accepting it because it is seen as normal and there is no desire to harm you because they don’t need to be forced to accept you by a law and won’t be fighting to end your right to exist.
You probably don’t understand, the same way you couldn’t understand my answer to your question. I wish you luck on your crusade to get Christians fired for quoting bible versus. Let me know how it works out.
DCguy
@Paco:
You claimed that forced acceptance didn’t work. My point is that waiting for everybody to be happy with everything means that decades of people would have been unable to marry because of bigotry. Therefore the forced legalization of interracial marriage did indeed work because those people were able to get married.
The fact that you have degenerated to name calling shows that you are getting pissy and frustrated because you keep trying to lie and say you answered the question and I keep pointing out that you haven’t.
And since you claim that you have, I have suggested multiple times that proving it would be simple, you could take 2 seconds, cut and paste your previous answer which you claim you posted, in a response.
You have avoided doing that, and now are name calling. Look, grow up, admit that you didn’t think your comment through and be done with it. Continuing down this spiral of lying and claiming you posted some invisible answer is ridiculous.
You said that what he posted shouldn’t get him kicked out even though it was a quote calling for the death of gays. I responded, would you feel the same if the quote was about minorities or women and you have flailed about and avoided that simple answer ever since.
Paco
@DCguy: DCguy said: “Answer how I want you to answer or I won’t accept it.”
Carry on, carry on.
DCguy
@Paco:
And again, that was you not answering the question.
You do realize, that a mature adult would have simply said something like “Hmm, I didn’t think of it that way.” And it would have been over.
But no, you couldn’t answer, then lied and claimed you did answer, and when asked to point out where you answered, you called names like a child.
All of this because you can’t admit that you have no answer to the question. You really need to examine your responses. You know you didn’t answer, why the desperation to lie and claim you did?
Paco
@DCguy: SMH
DCguy
@Paco:
That would be you not answering again right?