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Mormons Getting Reamed For Anti-Gay Ways


Californian queers are still burning up over this week’s passage of Proposition 8, which overturned gay marriage in the Golden State.

In addition to Wednesday’s protests, die-hard activists are now turning their attention on the Church of Latter-day Saints, which played a pivotal role in rallying their troops behind the discriminatory ballot measure.

Crowds of gays gathered yesterday outside a Mormon temple in Westwood, California, where they brandished signs decrying the group’s anti-gay lobbying. Then, as the sun went down, about 3,000 people flooded into the street and tangling traffic. Though the action was mostly peaceful, there were three arrests, according to the Associated Press.

In addition to these protests – and three lawsuits – gay marriage activists are also hoping to hit the Mormon church where it hurts: they’ve launched a petition to strip the group of their tax-exempt status. That status stipulates that religious groups not use their organization and power for political purposes.

To restore the right stolen from us, we must correct the amendment to California’s constitution. To do this requires another statewide proposition. Yet how will we avoid another election season of deception, when the Mormon Church can pour limitless, tax-free money into advancing their platform?

In this country, you can be a church. You can be a political action committee. You cannot be both. The Mormon Church stands in direct defiance of the spirit of our laws by actively campaigning to change California law.

You can be sure California hasn’t heard the last of these cries – in fact, there are scores of protests planned for this weekend. We gays are tenacious – as we should be!

Thanks to reader Marco for these pictures!

By:           Andrew Belonksy
On:           Nov 7, 2008
Tagged: , , , , , , ,

  • 97 Comments
    • Oh Charlie
      Oh Charlie

      My fellow friends…Attach to this comment is a website that allows those to sign a petition against the Mormon Church. In short, signing this petition strips them of tax exemption status. As you have heard over the news that PROP 8 passed and one of the biggest supporters for this PROP 8 was the Mormon Church. Please, this has nothing to do about anyones personal beliefs. In all fairness, if one group of people cannot have certains rights, then it would be fair to say that other groups of people (or organization in this case) does not deserve certain rights as well. Fair is Fair.

      Please forward this onto to others.

      Once you access the site below, top right corner click “click here no tax credit for hate”

      http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wolf
      Wolf

      Okay I’m sorry to post this AGAIN. BUT THIS IS TRULY IMPORTANT. Even if you DON’T live in CA we NEED to ban together and ALL do what we can. And EVERY can spend 5-10 Minutes and help this cause by send a Complaint to the IRS. The time for complacency and pasivity is GONE. ACT OUT PEOPLE we owe it to each other and for everyone who has ever fought for basic human rights!

      HOW TO LODGE A COMPLAINT TO REPEAL THE MORMON CHURCH TAX EXEMPT STATUS:
      http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/2008/10/29/how-to-file-an-irs-501c3-complaint/

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rayrayj
      rayrayj

      Don’t forget the Knights of Columbus…

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • reversion
      reversion

      yeah, sure

      not even the cult of scien.tology has lost its tax exempt status, and everyone seems to think that a “real” religion like mormonism will lose it? ha!

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • barbra
      barbra

      I will always defend what is right and just… until my dying days.
      Unfortunately this country has lost almost all of its borders, language and culture in the past 60 or so years. God should punish and purify this world… I can’t wait!
      Liberalism is a sin as is homosexuality. I pray for all of you

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wolf
      Wolf

      @reversion:

      If you don’t try you never know.

      Barbra. Please alert me when you are passing over so I can cheer.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PROTECT MARRIAGE AUSTRALIA
      PROTECT MARRIAGE AUSTRALIA

      oh simmer down you lot

      its democracy and the people don’t want you to marry or adopt. ITS ABOUT THE CHILDREN! we need to protect our future generation and preserve traditional marriage for them.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Olive Yurdich
      Olive Yurdich

      Hi Barbara. Nice to see you last night at the church social. I see you took my advice to visit this website. Are you rubbing your little man in the boat to the pictures in the “morning goods” section of this blog? Aren’t these gay guys are the hottest?! I told you! So much hotter than your fat slob husband with the baptist hairsprayed hair.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PROTECT MARRIAGE AUSTRALIA
      PROTECT MARRIAGE AUSTRALIA

      Olive sweetie…these guys you oggle @ are straight and most probably voted yes on prop 8

      :D

      Nov 7, 2008 at 9:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David
      David

      It won’t work until it hits them in the pocketbook. Conservative Mormon Republicans don’t get the point unless it costs them money.

      An immediate boycott of all things Utah. A petition means nothing if it doesn’t cost them anything in the immediate future.

      The Christmas buying and ski season is the right time for this, too. This is what Blacks did in Montgomery. Gay is the new Black.

      Boycott and picket all things Mormon. Even Christmas concerts by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 9:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nellie Danica
      Nellie Danica

      Good. Now they will know how it feels like.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 9:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • roman
      roman

      Wow…I mean…I never expected any of this to be happening right here in slc, utah. It’s so awesome. When I get a little more time I will share a few little stories with some of your readers about so much of the secrecy that goes on here…about my involvement with a county commissioner and his sharing of child porn with so many other capitol officials, but most of all, their high standing in the the their ‘church’. You might be interested to know that the majority of all the other christian faiths still consider mormonism a cult.
      WE CAN BEAT THIS BROTHERS AND SISTER GAYS!!

      Nov 7, 2008 at 9:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pete
      Pete

      I am in favor of repealing the tax exempt status of ALL churches. I don’t agree with the idea at the core. Religion is entertainment. I read core textslike the Bible, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tao Te Ching, and the Sutras and try to grow and learn from them. I can tell you all after years of loving God and deep study, that religions have nothing to do with their founders, and they do nothing to make the world better. We are each to make our souls better, and to care for each other. Churches are wrong when they claim that sheep-like behavior, prejudice, suprematist policies, war, and preserving economic system that expand the size of the population that is poor. The great teachers were spreading love. But these modern churches are nothing but entertainment for people who want someone to justify their hate.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 9:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • boycot
      boycot

      if it wore only possible to get ALL gays throughout the us to boycot all business’s etc who appose gay rights and let them know how much we count for the economy and our contributions in other areas. i am sure that it would make a difference as to whether or not we deserve equal rights. you dont realize how much you need something or someone until you no longer have it.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 9:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • G
      G

      @Oh Charlie:

      Hey, Im wondering when you will direct your ire to the 70% of black voters and the majority of latino voters that voted yes on prop 8.

      I thought you had courage? You all are missing the picture, it was the whole state that voted against you.

      Make a video of two black men or two latino men ransacking a gay couple’s home.

      I dont think you have that kind of consistency ot courage.

      You already have the same civil rights and benefits as straight couples, the state of California did their civic duty andy you lost, how the gay community has chosen to act both before the election and after does more harm to your cause than anything the Mormons have done.

      It is the gay community that has chosen to act irresponsibly because they lost.

      Be consistant with your hate, target the 70% of black voters that voted yes on prop 8.

      You are cowards.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 10:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • G
      G

      @David:

      “Gay is the new black?”

      Right, somehow that rings untrue. Look, you have the same civil righta as any other citizen.

      It appears that you and the gay community still hasn’t come to grips that 70% of black voters voted YES on prop 8.

      Tell them that you are the new blacks.

      Boycott all things black.

      Pickett black owned businesses.

      Call blacks bigots.

      Have the “courage campaign” make a video of two blackmen ransacking a gay couple’s house.

      You dont have that kind of courage or consistency.

      Cowards.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 10:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      “G”, gay/supportive + black are not mutually exclusive, just as Mormon + gay/supportive are not mutually exclusive.

      Sadly, there were some Mormons + black voters who were against Prop 8. It’s unfortunate that those who were for Prop 8 caused everyone against it within their respective communities to also get painted as anti-gay with a broad brush.

      The time for more persons of color (+ even those who aren’t) to come out to their families is now. Actually, it’s long overdue.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ChristopherM
      ChristopherM

      @G:

      And what about the 80+% of Republicans who voted for Prop 8? And the massive amount of old people who did? It is interesting you are singling out minorities. I don’t think it is productive, and the fact is without the massive amount of funding via the LDS, we wouldn’t be in this situation at all.

      You are correct in that I am coming to grips with the large minority vote for Prop 8. I have to admit I find it hurtful. I wonder if by singling out some groups though as people who should know better, we let older white folks off the hook for their bigotry? Clearly we have a LOT of work to do here on both sides, starting with acknowledging the number of people who fit into both camps. Evangelicals are more likely to be against us, and black people are more likely to be evangelical. It is really an issue of religion, not race, but I also think they might be more open to a message of equality given their own past experiences with discrimination. I don’t have the answers, but some bridges need to be built.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pb&j
      pb&j

      there were a whole bunch of other churches that also backed prop 8 – where’ the anger at them?

      the mormon church represents less than 2% of the whole population of california. 20% (or more) of those are inactive and at least 50% of the remaining are children. i’m not sure how that compares to the black voters….and maybe someone should realize that no on 8 failed to appeal to them.

      also…not one gay person was ever put on the no on 8 commercials. why?

      this action to go after a church’s tax exemption won’t work. the church did not directly provide any money…it’s members did. it did encourage its members to support the proposition…and unfortunately for the gays…they heeded the call.

      there were a LOT of mormons and other christians who voted No on 8. going after their churches, the gays will lose that support and backing. people don’t sit back when a church is attacked.

      education and interaction is the key here. boycots, anger and hatred….won’t work.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ChristopherM
      ChristopherM

      @pb&j:

      I agree with you to a point, but the fact is that 70% of the funding for Yes on 8 came from the solicitations of the LDS. Because of that alone, they deserve a lot more of our ire. Without that money, we wouldn’t be in this situation.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wolf
      Wolf

      @pb&j:

      A large portion of monetary backing and volunteer work for this heinous amendment that will now write bigotry into the Californian Constitution and deny the right to marry and legal protections to Same sex couples came from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) who publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to ProtectMarriage.com came from Utah, over three times more than any other state.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MWH
      MWH

      The Mormons are only one aspect of this battle. There are other fingers to point. But the fact that the Mormons fanned the flames of hatred by contributing the MOST money needs to be addressed.

      I agree that the homophobia that the Black churches teach at their pulpits needs to be addressed. But there are a lot of white folks who voted “YES” on Prop 8, too. It’s not just a “black issue”.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff
      Jeff

      Keep fighting guys, Lots of luv and support from Canada

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      Well my complaint has been sent in. I’m not anti-mormons, this is a country of religious freedom. If however they desire to be a PAC, they should not recieve tax write offs. Thank you Wolf! and O-Charlie!

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • G
      G

      No one is scared of gays, there is not a rampant case of homophobia.

      The manner in which the gay community is handling this issue is not very smart.

      People see your anger, your protests, your talks of boycott as an attack on a minority religion and religion in general.

      There are alot of religious people, of all races, wether Catholic, Mormon, Protestant, Jew, Muslim, Hindi…etc… that are tired of angry leftist gays telling them that they must accept homosexual behavior.

      An attack on Mormons is a calculated attempt from the left to pit religions against each other to achieve their goals.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Delilah
      Delilah

      You people realize that minorities are what killed prop 8. Not mormons. Obama won in California because of OVERWHELMING turn out from blacks and hispanic voters. Predominantly, those ethnicities faith lies in Christianity. There have been so many articles stating that it was assumed that because Obama had such a high turn out, prop 8 would fail, but yet it passed because many people who voted for Obama still believe that its a sin to be gay. Hundreds of Churches got together to stand opposed to Prop 8, and donated millions. Yet you all choose to discriminate against 1 church. Tolerance swings both ways. And as a mormon, I was never asked once to donate money for prop 8. They read a letter asking members to support it. But you know what? Minorities are what passed that amendment. It won by 52%, without the overwhelming amount of people who voted for Obama but voted yes on prop 8 it never would have passed.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pb&j
      pb&j

      @Wolf:

      actually the knights of columbus provided more out of state money…but your absolutely right on the LDS church members committing more time and money.

      don’t you think a lot of their actions and fears are out of ignorance? not of the stupidity kind (though that can be questioned sometimes), but stemming from a lack of experience and friendship within the gay community?

      i’m from a mormon family. i know that many mormons are torn over this. i also know that many of them are really good people who just tried to stand up for their own position…and I can’t blame them for that.

      i can say that for most mormons that i have discussed this with, and argued with, that they actually aren’t opposed to gay marriage in itself.

      it was the fear of the unknown and particularly what has happened in the elementary schools (and you must admit the SF field trip thing didn’t help). there is a lot of documentation about LGBT groups trying to push their agenda on young children…and that scares these people (along with the blacks) to death. i don’t believe sexuality, in any form, should be discussed in elementary schools. if the community (it’s really mostly the lesbian side) could pull back on this issue and assure people that sexuality is not the agenda here…only acceptance and understanding…then people would begin to listen.

      i do know that some people (the religious right and extremists) will never change. let them be…and they will run back to the woods…but most mormons (nearly every one I know from 40 years in and out the church) do not have those same feelings. they are kind people….and will open up their arms with some understanding and experience. you can’t force this type of people to accept…but you can educate them.

      i am working with two friends (a straight non-mormon and a gay ex-mormon) to try and put together a group that works to educate mormons on what it really means to be gay and to offer experiences interacting with each other. i believe many mormons have never experienced having a gay friend, brother or sister…and only know what they’ve heard from others (mostly outright lies). I believe that by getting to know them as real people, anyone would see that love is just love…no matter who feels it.

      The No on 8 campaign never even put a gay person in their ads? why? my friend and i …sitting side by side…and pleading for compassion and understanding would have been more compelling than any of those commercials.

      why didn’t No on 8 ever put someone like me in a commercial. i could appeal directly to the mormon population. i love my friend. i cherish him. i can accept his love, friendship and desire to love another. it doesn’t hurt me, it doesn’t affect me…and he is the kindest person to my wife and children. he’s a beautiful man. that is what people need to see. …real people. that would soften anyone’s heart and mind.

      as many of you don’t have a real clue about what happens in the mormon church or their beliefs (some of the protet signs clearly show that – the multiple wife references)…they don’t have a CLUE what is means to be gay. Mocking them isn’t going to help.

      I happen to see both sides very clearly. I believe that there are many of us who know the mormons culture and how to communicate with them. we can open up a channel for discusson and create a bridge and relationships.

      protests, bigotry, anger and hatred are all being compounded right now. those are the very things that the No on 8 people despised in their campaign.

      mormons are afraid to stick their hand out now…but there are some of us who can talk to them and work to educate them. we can hold hands with both sides. it’s all fear of the unknown…and with a little friendship and knowledge, that can all be overcome.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pb&j
      pb&j

      my whole argument above…applies to most any community who voted Yes on 8. this would work with the blacks, asians, hispanic, catholics, etc…

      again – you’ll never change the religious right or born again christians…but you can change the hearts and minds of so many others.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pb&j
      pb&j

      @G:

      G – you’re wrong. it’s not a calculated attempt. it is an emotional attempt to communicate frustration.

      put yourself in their shoes. you would be angry too.

      you are correct…protests and anger will not change anyone’s mind…but kindness from both sides will lead to dialogue.
      diagogue will lead to understanding.
      understanding will lead to acceptance.
      acceptance will lead to equal rights.

      i think that is a better course of action.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      I applaud those who have stood up and spoken out againt the religious bigotry from the Morman Church. We must also remember that African Americans voted overwhelmingly against gay equality and the Black Church in America is rife with anti-gay bigotry. We cannot ignore this hatred. Below is a video link showing a Prominet African American “Yes on Prop 8″ advocate preaching to an enthusiastic crowd and implying that gay people are pedophiles and are targeting children. “Gays can’t reproduce, so they Recruit”. This kind of open anti-gay bigotry was used to pass Prop 8 and sadly is quite common within the Black church. Ignoring this blatant bigotry will not make it go away. And speaking out against Homophobia and Anti-Gay Bigotry is NOT Racism, it’s actually an imperative, if we ever want to truly effect change and achieve equality.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      This is a great long term approach, meanwhile however we do have GLBT families, and people who deserve to be married. If the Mormon Church has put 20 million into this campaign their tax write-off status should be revoked since they have turned themselves into a PAC.

      I’ve never understood why churches decide stopping a proposal etc will contribute to the church… If they truly feel gay is wrong, then get the people who are gay to believe that. Forcing someone to not do something throughout history only makes them that much more determined to do it.

      !!!GO GLBT!!! Don’t stop til you get enough!

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pb&j
      pb&j

      @Kdogg:

      the church did not put money into the campaign.
      they did ask their members to support the proposition and the members did. the members put approx. $15M into the campaign.

      that fact alone will protect the church’s status.
      and if somehow it could be revoked, that would apply to every church who supported prop 8. i don’t think that’s going to happen. so why not be smarter about it?

      and forcing someone to accept your gay beliefs will not work either. hateful protests, lawsuits and petitions will do nothing to the church’s status.

      education and action can start immediately. if the right people get behind it. wouldn’t you rather put energy into change than just chanting?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • noyesno
      noyesno

      @Wayne

      Yes, you are correct, but you must also remember that how we combat homophobia in the African-American community should be different than how we combat homophobia coming from the Mormon Church.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pb&j
      pb&j

      @noyesno:

      agreed – but the same basic principle apply. it will just be a lot tougher group to convince.
      try the hispanics..that will be the toughest.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      My previous post had the wrong link. This link shows the video of a prominet African American “Yes on Prop 8″ advocate preaching that Gays are pedophiles and are “recruiting” America’s children. This blatant bigotry is common in the Black Church in America and was used quite effectively to pass Prop 8.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Wayne, are you next going to post a video of one of the 82% of prominent white republicans who also voted for Prop 8?

      Or is that not a pressing enough issue to you?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • G
      G

      @pb&j:

      I have only seen dialogue coming from one side of the issue. Emotional idiocy and intimidation tactics in the streets is not dialogue. Why just target Mormons? We all know that Mormons represent 2% of the CA population.

      Selective outrage against Mormons IS calculated, the agenda is against religion in general, and if you can target the Mormons, who are already unpopular within the religious right, you can create dissention within all religions, or at least put all the blame on the Mormons knowing that other churches would have difficulty standing up with the Mormons because that would look like they would be legitimizing the Mormons faith, which they feel is a cult.

      Let’s not be naive and say that their is any attempts at dialogue coming from the gay community directed towards Mormons, there are only calls for boycotts, name calling, intimidation, picketing,…etc… it is an insult to say there is.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      @pb&j: I’m not forcing any Mormons to agree with gay, nor do I think gays are forcing them either. I don’t care if someone is Mormon, Christian, Muslim, Budhist, any religion, it is none of my business. Just as it is none of the Mormon’s business to put an end to gay marriage.

      Like I said, if a religious group desires to save what is their view of a “sinner” then I encourage that group to try to change the hearts of that so called “sinner” but their approach is fascist and only encourages the behavior they are looking to end.

      I happen to think when they do finally get to a place where they are trying to talk with people and truly help a person they’ll see that the best help they could provide is encouraging loving gay marriages.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      @G: People are not calling out Mormons because of their high percentage involved in the Prop 8 vote. They are being called out because of teh ridiculous amount of money they donated to pass Prop 8.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frank kameny
      frank kameny

      So are you guys going after the tax-exempt status of churches that opposed Prop 8?

      Moot point…nothing the LDS or Knights of Columbus did jeopardizes their tax-exempt status under 501(c)(3). You might want to actually read the pertinent IRS regs.

      Tilt away, boys, those windmills need to come down.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      I sent the complaint in, I guess it sucks if it was worthless but does anyone have something else constructive we can do? I don’t want to be the victim anymore!

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      A number of trolls appear to have infected this site, posing as gay people. Please ignore them and don’t “debate” them. Hopefully they’ll shrivel up and blow away in the wind.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pb&j
      pb&j

      @Kdogg:
      nothing you do is worthless…it’s all a statement of your beliefs.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      Fredo 777,

      Actually exit polls show that a slim majority of Whites voted “NO” on Prop 8. I do think that the Mormon church should be held accountable for their deplorable actions. But to ignore the fact that blatant and hateful anti-gay bigotry is common place within the Black community and sadly within much of the Black Churh in America would be totally counterproductive. We have to speak out against hatred NO MATTER WHICH GROUPS SUPPORT IT. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hojo
      Hojo

      1 million signitures gets a measure on the ballot. We can amend the constitution too!!! First up any church that gives money to legislation as well as political candidates loses its tax free status.

      Amend the constitution so that it requires 2/3 vote in order to amend it. Our founding fathers were smart enough to know that the masses couldn’t be trusted that’s why they made the federal one so difficult to amend.

      Second and third marriages should be illegal.

      Any political sign on public property should be illegal. That way anyone can remove it as if it were litter. “all those yellow nazi signs”

      Class action lawsuit!!! Taxation without representation in CA. Tie it up in court. Hit them in the wallet! DIVIDE AND CONQUER!!!

      749…….. That’s the number of rights we lost. Domestic Partner and Civil Unions only have 300 rights attached, none of which cross state lines. Marriage has 1049. Not about a word.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Yeah, right.

      It just seems to me, Wayne, that 95% of your posts on the matter are targeting the blacks who voted for Prop 8. So, you’re not exactly holding everyone at fault equally accountable, are you?

      http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..704/656272

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      @Wayne: I think that Obama himself has called out the fact that there is a large problem with homophobia inside the African American Community. However, I have read many of your posts and you attack African Americans as a people group, generalizing and spreading the hate. This is not a way to solve the problem but it instead takes breeds more hatred. Washington DC is primarily black, however they GREATLY support gay rights, this is an example of many African Americans supporting gays!!

      If you would like to discuss the African American community’s homophobia problem I am sure many will discuss it. I feel especially remorseful for black gay men or lesbian woman who have to come out to their families. Many of their families feel they have chosen to become a double minority and hate them for it.

      MUCH MUCH more education is needed in the black community, but also the white community, hispanic community, AMERICAN COMMUNITY!!! What will not help is generalizing and writing entire racial communities off as bigots.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hojo
      Hojo

      It’s religions fault not race. Stay focused people. Writing bigoted comments does not help our cause. We need everyone’s support, gay straight black hispanic white, Don’t forget 48% of them supported us and still do. Getting ugly will only alienate our allies.

      Not to mention, calling out the bigots whilst making bigoted comments does not come off as very intelligent.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      Fredo777, what part of my post didn’t you understand. I just said that the Mormons should be held accountable for their deplorable actions.

      “I do think that the Mormon church should be held accountable for their deplorable actions. But to ignore the fact that blatant and hateful anti-gay bigotry is common place within the Black community and sadly within much of the Black Churh in America would be totally counterproductive”

      What part of that didn’t you understand? And are you trying to say that homophobia and anti-gay bigotry within the Black community doesn’t exist? Or that it didn’t play a major role in the passage of Prop 8? (Did you happen to see NBC Nightly News last night? They did a in depth piece that stated quite clearly that it was the African American vote that was crucial to passing Prop 8). Ignoring the facts won’t make the problem better and attacking me won’t change the facts. Bigotry is WRONG no matter which group supports it, but ignoring any group that would vote so overwhelmingly against our equality would be ridiculously counter productive for the Gay Rights movement.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      What part of “95% of your posts on the matter are targeting the blacks who voted for Prop 8…” didn’t you understand?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Btw, those numbers for black votes + their lop-sided support of Prop 8 are faulty:

      http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..704/656272

      I’ll keep posting that link until people here stop believing + spreading the myth that the success of Prop 8 mostly boiled down to black voters.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      Fredo777, WOW. So now we are supposed to trust a Daily Koz post over the validity and integrity of CNN? Forgive but until proven otherwise I’ll trust CNN to be more trustworthy in their reporting than the Daily Koz. And you’ll notice CNN has NOT made any retraction of their exit poll data.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      should read: Daily Kos not Koz

      Fredo777, WOW. So now we are supposed to trust a Daily Koz post over the validity and integrity of CNN? Forgive but until proven otherwise I’ll trust CNN to be more trustworthy in their reporting than the Daily Koz. And you’ll notice CNN has NOT made any retraction of their exit poll data.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      CNN has not retracted any of it’s polling data. And there is NO evidence that their polling data is faulty.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      The Daily Kos post is a rather weak attack on the methodology of polling! These methodologies are standard in all polling. And as I’ve said, CNN has not retracted any of it’s exit polling data, and news agencies such as NBC, MSNBC, AP, etc, all continue to reference the same polling data on the African American vote in California concerning the vote on Prop 8.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 4:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Are you fuckin’ kidding me?

      It’s not just “some Daily Koz post”, but one which cites actual research done by independent sources, stats, + real numbers to back it up.

      The fact that you are so readily willing to accept the random-as-hell exit polling done by CNN (which they should retract or at least explain better, whether or not they actually have) says a lot.

      Again, though, if we were to believe their exit polling is completely accurate (which I don’t) the group with one of the highest percentages of ‘Yes’ votes on Prop 8 was still white republicans with a whopping 82%.

      That said, + considering that the number of white republicans in more-conservative-than-you’d-expect California far outweighs the number of eligible, registered black voters who actually bothered to turn up to the polls + vote on Prop 8 at all (plenty probably just voted the Dem straight ticket) + actually answered the exit poll, I’d say they’re your first + largest priority.

      Bottom line: if you’re going to target the minority group of black whom actually did vote + did vote Yes on Prop 8, you should also spend just as much time focusing on the larger groups of persons who voted against granting gay marriage rights.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 4:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      I see a lot of defending and deflecting of how minority groups voted on proposition 8 and the accusation that they are being “singled” out. They are not being “singled” out and held totally responsible. They are being singled out because people are Godsmacked that an oppressed group(s) would chose to do to others what has been done to them. Nobody would be as shocked by white people voting this way because they have never been oppressed in these ways, in this country. I feel sorry for those who are on these threads, from those minority groups who are also gay. Because your own races showed the hate and disdain they have for what you are. I believe your attempts to minimize and deflect from their actions comes from trying to psychologically and emotionally survive that trauma which was expressed on Tuesday. Very sad indeed.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 4:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      Fredo777 said: “The fact that you are so readily willing to accept the random-as-hell exit polling done by CNN (which they should retract or at least explain better, whether or not they actually have) says a lot”.

      As I said earlier. CNN has not retracted any of it’s polling data. The Daily Kos post is an opinion piece that questions the methodology of ALL polling, the CNN statement is a general methodology statement standard to all polling, not specific to the Prop 8 polling data. And besides CNN the major News agencies that have reported on this story continue to site and reference the same polling data on the African American vote on Prop 8.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 4:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      should have read: ..And besides CNN, the other major News agencies that have reported on this story continue to site and reference the same polling data on the African American vote on Prop 8.

      “As I said earlier. CNN has not retracted any of it’s polling data. The Daily Kos post is an opinion piece that questions the methodology of ALL polling, the CNN statement is a general methodology statement standard to all polling, not specific to the Prop 8 polling data. And besides CNN the major News agencies that have reported on this story continue to site and reference the same polling data on the African American vote on Prop 8″.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      No, Michael, it has nothing to do with trying to deflect actions or “emotionally survive” that “trauma” — how over-dramatic, btw — but wanting people to not just make black voters the easy scapegoat here when they were: a). not the largest group of voters who favored Prop 8 + b). not necessarily represented properly in the exit polling.

      Hate is hate, + I don’t like it coming from anyone: black, green, white, red, or blue, for that matter. I like it even less when people just want to pile on one group of persons because they’re minorities + “should be held to a different standard”, etc. Plain + simple.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 4:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Wayne, opinion piece or no, the author went to great lengths in providing accompanying stats + figures that disprove those numbers which are so popularly spread via CNN, etc.

      Just because the “major news agencies” have reported on this story referencing said polling data does not mean that said data is fairly presented or accurate. It is my assertion that this data is not. Even Latinos, according to their polls, whom are overwhelmingly religious/conservative, only voted 53% in favor of Prop 8. But the black voters, of course, were waaaaay out there with a 70% approval of Prop 8? Is that 70% of all voters, or just 70% of those who voted on Prop 8 at all? 70% of all black voters or just 70% of those from the random polling sample?

      And so on…

      My problem isn’t with the notion that some black voters favored Prop 8. I’m sure they did. My issue is with the assumption that 70% of black Californians (or even just Cali. voters) voted in favor of Prop 8 based on a random exit poll sample. And the notion that, if that were true, black voters are now the primary factor in passing Prop 8.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 5:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      You seem to misunderstand. The polling data is not culled from some “random polling sample” as you call it, but official exit poll interviews and statistical data. CNN quotes the same numbers, as does the Associated Press and every other credible news source. Despite what an opinion piece in the Daily Kos says, NONE of the news organizations have retracted any of the exit polling data that clearly show 70% of African American voted Yes on Prop 8, worse 75% of Black women voted Yes. Unfortunately, their vote was hurtful, hateful and homophobic, and it shouldn’t be ignored. Bigotry should be spoken out against.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 5:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Danny
      Danny

      PB&J really has it right. All this bigotry and hatred toward a church or a minority group is counter-productive. Until the gay community can come together in a mature and productive effort, we won’t be recognized as a legitimate part of society deserving of any “rights”. It’s time to stop treating others the way we don’t want to be treated and get together and work toward building the kind of society we want.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 5:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Wayne, bigotry should be spoken out against.

      Which is exactly why I’m not going to stand by + allow anyone to put the bulk of the blame for Prop 8 passing on a minority of the Californian voting population based on exit polling data which is not exactly fool-proof.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 5:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Oh, + that “should” should be in italics…like-a this here: should.

      Ah, yes, italics.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 6:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hojo
      Hojo

      It really is like trying to herd cats in here.

      It passed. Period. Now we fight back as one. We are a minority made up of every race creed nationality religion etc.

      I’ll say it again 1 million signitures gets a measure on the ballot. Let’s legislate!

      Amend the constitution to make it illegal for religious groups to knock on peoples doors. ie. bicycle mormons.

      Bigger picture and future people. What could the mormons be up to. Throwing Palin to the wolves. Making alliances in the other mainstream religions that see them as a cult…..Hmmmmm Romny in 2012 maybe?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 6:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      In my living room there is the most beautiful painting in the world. My partner and I found it rummaging through an antique shop. It is a wonderful mid century painting of a black woman. Every new person that enters our home is immediately drawn to her and areamazed by this painting and I am not exaggerating, when I say that. She is not what one would consider a great beauty, she is no Beyonce or Halle Berry. She is a painting of who was probably a lower middle to middle class black woman dressed in her Sunday best. What is amazing about her is that the artist was able to capture her essence in this painting. You can see the wisdom in her face, you can feel the things that she has been through, you can tell life was not all a bowl a cherries for her, but most importantly you can feel her love and the knowledge that she knows who she really is. We spent close to a thousand dollars framing her because when we were presented with this amazing frame that was like the halo she deserved we could not say no. She is amazing. I often walk by her and ask her to share her strength and wisdom with me. Maybe thats corny to some, but somehow I know her spirit is in that painting. We always refer to her as the queen of our home. Next to her sits a painting worth over 80k, it is 10 times larger but pales next to her. We love her because we relate to her. We love her because we feel that she knows what we have gone through in our own lives as an oppressed minority. We love her because we can see the compassion she gained somehow in her lives. And she reminds us to love who we are and always hold our heads up high.

      I grew up in the Southeast. I had pretty cool parents but I did have extended family member who had no problem being racists and hateful. As a little boy I have screamed at my Grandfather for using the N-bomb. As an adult I have ended friendships and thrown people out of my home for expressing their racism and hate. My partners best friend who died two years ago was a wonderful black woman who he still grieves for.

      I say this because I know that many people think that the way blacks may have voted in California being pointed out is racist.
      And I will agree thats probably the motivation of many in doing so. But for some of us, it broke our hearts. For some of us we felt like our common experience of oppression, discrimination and being looked down upon made us a common family. But the vote has left some of us feeling like we were thrown out of yet another family. I do not hate any group for voting against
      me and my rights as a human being. But it has taken me back
      to that sad and lonely place within me. Of course no race alone caused the outcome in California. That is not my point. My point is that for some of us we have been left feeling like we lost
      something more even than that. The love of a people(s) that
      we always cared for the plight of and related to. Thats all I have to say.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 6:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      That was beautifully put, Michael, + I understand exactly where you’re coming from. As a gay, black man, I know how it feels to have persons within a community that you feel close to — + are even a part of — do something that you feel is an act of betrayal. My only hope is that people will realize that while it’s important for everyone to take accountability for their actions, it’s also unfair to generalize + lump all black voters into one group, seeing as there are some black voters who are also gay + some who are not, but are our allies who voted against Prop 8.

      I do think it’s important to confront the homophobia that is prevalent in religious communities, including (but not limited to) the black evangelical, + mormon ones. At the end of the day, though, we need to do less finger-pointing + more bridge-building.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 6:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jim
    • michael
      michael

      @fredo777: Thanks Fredo777 for seeing and understanding. And I agree that there are loads of groups that need to be educated, not just one color, one religion, on political party. I think this election showed us how much ignorance still lives all across our nation. Maybe once we all settle down from this disappointment and are able to objectively look at this problem we can move forward with a better solution and intention behind us.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 7:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • funguy
      funguy

      I love how the PRO PROP 8 assholes say it’s about
      “protecting the children” and that they don’t want the “children to be “taught” the gay lifestyle, yet they bring the kids to these rally’s?!?!

      Aren’t the kid’s asking what “Gay” is? , What do you tell them? So isn’t that “educating and exposing” the innocent children to and about the gays?

      The “gays” aren’t going anywhere! We will still be here, we will still get married whether or not the state chooses to call it that, we will still be ALL OVER the Tv, in Music videos, Songs, Books, movies, internet, and they WILL learn about us at the schools, because guess what? GAY KIDS ALSO GO TO SCHOOL.

      Anything i ever learned about sex (at least the good stuff) was from my friends and the kids at school. SO WILL YOUR “INNOCENT” CHILDREN.

      For something so disgusting and unnatural you people sure are worried your kids will find appeal in being queer. Why would they ever go there if it was as unnatural and disgusting as you claim.

      Your kids will be who they are . like it or not..,

      you will also tell them how bad booze and drugs are and they will try that as well. After they see how great it is to be high and drunk, maybe they will rethink all the other things you told them were no good as possibly having something to it!

      Have Fun!

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Richard Rabinowitz
      Richard Rabinowitz

      While I’m not gay, I support the right of gays to marry and I consider people who consider themselves to be married to be married. While I signed the anti-Mormon petition, this was in protest of Mormon political bullying and I don’t really expect the LDS to be stripped of its tax free status. But the Church should be punished somehow for this bullying, although the government is prohibited from doing this due to separation of church and state. It is, therefore, up to private organizations to do the punishing, via protests and shaming.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Richard Rabinowitz
      Richard Rabinowitz

      Shame on the Mormon and Catholic churches for political bullying. Shame on African American churches for going along with them. They should’ve known better than to commit the sin of casting the first stone.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pb&j
      pb&j

      thanks Danny #63

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josephine
      Josephine

      Proving a point. I have no problem with couples getting the same tax and inheritance relief as married couples. But this is a Christian nation and was set up that way in the beginning. Marriage was from the beginning between man and woman. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and John or Eve and Mary. So okay to be gay if thats your life style, but just follow the rules that country has had since the beginning.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 12:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pb&j
      pb&j

      @Josephine:
      you are a prime example of why these people should be pissed off.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 1:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bruno
      Bruno

      Josephine…whatever this country was founded as is not what it is today. I am not a Christian. Do I have to follow the tenets of the various Christian religions because people like you want to force them on me? You just made the perfect anti-argument as to why Proposition 8 violates everybody’s freedom of religion. Nice going!

      Nov 8, 2008 at 2:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      Jose@Josephine: Dear, you might want to become more educated before you make the statements that you made. Many of those who were involved in the inception of our nation and constitution were actually either agnostic or atheist. Now your minister, with his correspondence school theology degree might tell you otherwise, but your an intelligent woman capable of researching and learning what the truth really is. That the problem with members of the Christian Reich, they just sit like sheep and believe whatever they are told as long as that person says they are a “Christian”. Just look at the amount of minister who have lied to their flocks, turned out to be gay themselves, stole from their churches, etc. Catholic priests who rape children and are hidden by the rest of the clergy. I do not understand why being a Christian means giving up you own God given ability to think and reason.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 2:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jimmyb1973
      jimmyb1973

      Why are you blaming the mormons? Everyone knows it was the black vote that passed the Prop. they voted 70-30, whites & asians voted No 49-51…

      There are not that many Black Mormons, so I don’t know why you don’t go picket in front of the AME church in South Central LA, they are the SOLE reason this bill passed not the mormons…

      I voted no.

      But it was the high turnout of African Americans to vote for Obama that turned the tide on Prop. 8, bring your argument to them, I am sure no Mormon message resonated with them…

      March on Crenshaw Blvd and Rodeo Road & Hoover Streets, there you’ll find your culprits…

      Nov 8, 2008 at 3:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      So when Black preaches give “Yes On Prop 8″ sermons that imply Gay people are all pedophiles, and warn that gays are targeting Americas children. Are we supposed to ignore this bigotry simply because it’s espoused by an African American? So if a Morman said those things we should speak out against them, but when African Americans spew bigoted anti-gay filth, we should just pretend it didn’t really happen? Even with verifiable evidence like exit polling data, and even video. Video footage of Yes on Prop 8 rallies show the hatred and homophobia quite CLEARLY. See for yourself.

      Listen to the hate being spewed by this Prominent African American Yes on 8 Advocate. Have any of you ever spent ANY time in the Black community? Have you ever gone to a Black church? Those who have cannot deny that this type of anti-gay language is COMMON, actually it’s often worse. How can anyone think we should just ignore or excuse this blatant and hateful homophobia and bigotry?

      Nov 8, 2008 at 6:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      So when Black preachers give “Yes On Prop 8″ sermons that imply Gay people are all pedophiles, and warn that gays are targeting Americas children. Are we supposed to ignore this bigotry simply because it’s espoused by an African American? So if a Morman said those things we should speak out against them, but when African Americans spew bigoted anti-gay filth, we should just pretend it didn’t really happen? Even with verifiable evidence like exit polling data that shows Blacks voted overwhelmingly for Prop 8, and ther is even video. Video footage of Yes on Prop 8 rallies show the hatred and homophobia quite CLEARLY. See for yourself.

      Listen to the hate being spewed by this Prominent African American Yes on 8 Advocate. Have any of you ever spent ANY time in the Black community? Have you ever gone to a Black church? Those who have cannot deny that this type of anti-gay language is COMMON, actually it’s often worse. How can anyone think we should just ignore or excuse this blatant and hateful homophobia and bigotry?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrwj7SVWBMA

      (typo corrected)

      Nov 8, 2008 at 7:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      One more point on the problem of anti-gay bigotry within the African American community. I recall very clearly that Obama himself has talked about the problem of anti-gay bigotry within the Black churh. Sadly Obama didn’t feel a need to go out and give a speech on Gays to Black Churches that he said they needed (I guess he was too busy organizing “Faith Tours” with “Yes on Prop 8″ Advocates shilling for Obama on the one hand and Prop 8 on the next). But even he admitted there was a problem. To deny that the is a huge amount of homophobia within the African American community is just not credible. Anyone who has spent any substantial amount of time within the Black community, and especially the Black Church knows full well that anti-gay bigotry and homophobia are common place.

      Fredo 777, you may not like the truth, but it doesn’t change the facts. Even Obama has admitted as much.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 7:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      and Fredo 777, Obviously when I asked have any of you spent time in the Black community, I was not referring to you. But being that you are Black, I’m astounded that you are trying to imply that there is not a huge problem with homophobia in the Black community. That is just unbelievable. I’m mostly white (1/4 Native mix) but I grew up poor in Georgia and Chicago. I was raised in Black neighborhoods. And the African American culture in America is a strong and vibrant community with many virtues. My own God child who I adore is African American as is his mother, who has been my best friend since childhood. The Black community has many things to be proud of. But anti-gay attitudes are sadly quite common. That is a fact, and it should not be ignored.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 7:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      Ok, I’ve commented more than enough on this thread, but I just saw the new “Stand Together” music video from 365Gay.com and seeing so many talented artists lifting up their voices to sing against inequality and homophobia literally brought tears to my eyes.

      http://www.365gay.com/video/video-stand-together/

      Nov 8, 2008 at 10:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sharky
      Sharky

      Look people I get it. There are plenty of places to point the finger of blame: the Mormon faith, the black and hispanic communities, churches, etc.
      Yes, the LDS church pumped a lot of money into the Yes on 8 campaign. Yes a majority of blacks and hispanics supported the prop as well. (a testament to the effectiveness of the LDS campaign) And yes a lot of hateful rhetoric spewed from the pulpit.
      But it’s easier to direct blame and anger at an “other” than to take a hard look at ourselves and our community and say, “Prop 8 was 100% my responsibility.” Try it…
      We need to turn that same finger around and point it at ourselves.
      I’ll be the first to admit it, I could have done more. As a young, mixed-race gay man I SHOULD have done more. I took it for granted that someone else was fighting my fight and I let equality slip away. Most notably, I should have spoken to my black family members and spread the word. I could have given more money. I could have reached out to churches. I should have done everything in my power to secure this right.

      We ALL could have done more (and I’m sure we will in the future). After Nov. 4th, we are all aware of the areas that will require our attention to successfully defeat similar legislation when it returns for another vote.

      So please, you’re anger and hurt is deserved but let’s stop blaming. We were dealt a devastating blow but we can get it next time.

      Besides voting and donating money, what more could you have done? How could you have been more proactive? What will you do next time?

      Nov 8, 2008 at 1:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      @ Wayne & G:

      I couldn’t have said it best myself, but the Gay leadership just refuses to confront this problem and as long as they continue to target Mormons and forget african Americans we will keep loosing on battles.

      I saw a picture on the protests in CA which best describes the treatment we receive from the african American community at large and which was reflected on Tuesday’s vote:

      I’LL KEEP FIGHTING 4 YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS, EVEN THOUGH YOU KEEP TAKING AWAY MINE!!

      But alas let the silencing of the opposition both virtually and in the real world continue.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 4:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • horus
      horus

      the darkness descends upon the mormons the catholics the evangelicals, go out and pay them back, brothers and sisters. do not rest until they feel the pain they have inflicted on us.

      ‘the universe is watching’

      Nov 9, 2008 at 10:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @Wayne: @CHURCHILL-Y:

      But what are YOU doing to change this?

      Or do YOU not care only because you’ve been proven RIGHT?

      I think we’ve realised that ethnic minoroties…sorry blacks..(lets ignore South America that’s REALLY homophobic apart from Argentina)..are terribly socially conservative…

      A large percentage voted 4 prop 8….

      So what do you both intelligent and highly psasionate men think we should do? And when you say what WE should do…will you make sure that you also cc the govt, policy makers, researchers etc…?

      THIS could help!

      Really.

      So I’m awaiting both your A+ essays(doesn’t have to be lond) on race, homophobia and America.

      I really think once you both do this, your rhetorics would surely be taken in..

      Nov 9, 2008 at 2:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      I swear, some of these posters are either half-blind or fully-mentally ill.

      I’ve already acknowledged several times that homophobia is an issue with some more religious people, including (but not limited to) Black evangelicals, Mormons, etc.

      My point, which seems to have been typed in invisible ink, is that the way in which a lot of persons are attacking “blacks”, in general, is not helping. In plain English: some non-LGBT black persons are homophobic + some aren’t. My issue is not with being honest about confronting those persons who are homophobic; it’s about the generalized way some of you are referring to blacks = homophobes, as though we all are.

      That = problem.
      I = pissed + finished arguing this point.

      Goodbye.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bruno
      Bruno

      I was at the rally at the Mormon Temple today in Oakland. I dunno…this peaceful, quiet stuff, is it gonna get us anywhere?

      The reason prop 8 passed was more because of all the free Sunday morning advertising from preachers than anything else. To me, if we don’t at least in a small way disrupt their services, we’ve accomplished nothing. But that’s just l’il ol’ revolutionary me.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Agreed, Bruno.

      I don’t think we should resort to violence, but that doesn’t mean we should be totally docile + passive, either. Act Up + so forth.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      FOUR LESSONS GAY MARRIAGE ACTIVISTS MUST LEARN FROM OBAMA ::

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-stranahan/four-lessons-gay-marriage_b_142469.html

      A must-read article. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 8:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hojo
      Hojo

      We need to get an intersex person involved in the lawsuit. Make this thing as legally messy as possible. Lets define male and female at the chromosomal level.

      Look what happened to the Olympic commision when they tried to sort this out. It’s so ambiguous they couldn’t come up with a difinitive answer.

      Let’s make all straight couples do genetic testing to make sure they are all “male and female.”

      You’d be surprised how many varients occur…46XXY and so many others. 1 in 1700 people have ambiguous biological sexual identification.

      Many sterile men are actually not completely male.

      How do these religious idiots explain this. Did god create adam eve and pat????

      Funny how they constantly revert to FAITH when they can’t explain shit like the dinosaurs yet they suddenly demand scientific proof when it comes to sexuality.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 10:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Richard Rabinowitz
      Richard Rabinowitz

      Look up to OBAMA, not to ANGER. Look at how he won. That gives a way for you to strike back.

      Nov 10, 2008 at 12:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • StraightGuyHere
      StraightGuyHere

      I’m straight and pretty conservative on most issues. One area where I’m pretty liberal is gay rights. I think gays get treated like shit in this country and you all have every right to be upset. Were it up to me, gay marriage, adoption, true equality – would ALL be yours. My advice though: STOP this violent anti-black, anti-religion madness. You’re setting yourselves back 50 years. If you keep at it peacefully, you will prevail. I truly wish you the best.

      Nov 10, 2008 at 7:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vanessa
      Vanessa

      I am a straight Catholic girl who has known many gays and lesbians in my school. I personally don’t care who other people sleep with I also have an interest in Northern Ireland so I discovered this site after I found Iris Robinson’s comments on theyworkforyou. Alot of Proposition 8 talk on the web, so I decided to look back here.

      Conservative sites are accusing gays of being anti-religious. It says in Christian text to expect persecution, so you are triggering ingrained fears. People are honestly afraid that their Constitutional right to free speech and religion will be taken away due to the “homosexual agenda”.

      Please be cautious, and please don’t turn this country into an Orwellian state. Let your opposition have a voice.

      Nov 11, 2008 at 6:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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