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Prop 8 Supporter William Tam Wants Out of the Perry Trial. ‘Cause Everyone Is Making Fun of Him!

cooper8lg

As the battle over televising the federal Prop 8 trial continues (five cities will get a live feed), one of Perry v. Schwarzenegger‘s defendants/intervenors, Hak-Shing William Tam, is asking the court of the eve of the trial’s start to from the lawsuit. How come? Well, he fears you gay rights supporters are going to hunt him down — like you’ve been doing already! Also: Like, this is taking up a lot more time than he suspected!

How coincidental, then, that Prop 8’s defenders — Charles Cooper (pictured) and ProtectMarriage.com — are arguing that letting the trial be recorded and uploaded to YouTube will serve to intimidate supporters of marriage discrimination. By withdrawing from the case, Tam, one of the original five voluntary defendants, sends the most clear signal yet that, hey, they are scurrred of public scrutiny. In a public forum. OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

(Along with Tam, the official intervenors are: Dennis Hollingsworth, Gail J. Knight,Peter Henderson, and Mark A. Jansson.)

Reads Tam’s motion, filed Friday, in part:

I want to voluntarily withdraw as a Defendant-Intervenor for several reasons. The first reason is because I am fearful for my personal safety and the safety of my family. In the past I have received threats on my life, had my property vandalized and am recognized on the streets due to my association with Proposition 8. Now that the subject lawsuit is going to trial, I fear that I will get mor epublicity, be more recognizable and that the risk of harm to me and my family will increase.

He then goes on to allege several things that were done to him, like his car being vandalized, someone trying to remove a Prop 8 sign from his front yard, and people leaving threatening comments on a YouTube video featuring him — which, c’mon, have you met the Internet? (But also: Death threats online are not cool, so yeah, that’s terrible.)

And if all that weren’t enough, Tam had no idea that Perry would take over his life. It’s as if he thought fighting in court to discriminate against a certain class of Americans would be just another hobby that he could schedule in between crafts and knitting.

I do not like the burden of complying with discovery requests. I do not like people questioning my private personal beliefs. I do not like people questioning me regarding fourteen year old articles I wrote in the Chinese language to my constituents. I don’t like being quoted out of context and find it very offensive. I don’t like people focusing on a few articles I posted on my website regarding homosexuality and disregarding the 50 or 60 other articles I posted regarding family values subjects. I do not like the exposure of my history to people who are agnostic to me. In short, I do not like the burden of discovery and the privacy invasion associated with being a Defendant-Intervenor. [... ] I am tired and I want peace. I want peace to carry on my ministry and I don’t want to be indefinitely tied down with this case.

Oh how easy those heterosexuals have it, getting to choose when to dip their feet into the marriage waters when it’s convenient. Now that Mr. Tam realizes that, hey, people are going to disagree with me (publicly!) and criticize me (publicly!) and call me a bigot (publicly!), he doesn’t want to complete the mission he signed up for.

Which is fine; there are plenty more marriage discriminators around to fill his place. But his request to exit the trial is not a signal that Perry is too invasive for supporters of Prop 8. It’s a distinctive signal that the very people who campaigned to strip away gay Californians’ right to marry now can’t even tough it out when people call bullshit on their bigotry.

(NB: Is anyone else curious over how few Google search results Hak-Shing William Tam’s name pulls up? Most of them are just-posted news items about Tam’s withdrawing from the case. Tam’s motion to withdraw appears on the website of the Equal Rights Foundation, the group funding the Olson/Boies legal team.)

  • 95 Comments
    • KirilleXXI
      KirilleXXI

      So, his car was vandalized?
      How many gays’ cars were vandalized? How many of us woke up in the morning to find “FAGS” written all over our cars? Just because those of us chose to be out.

      So, he received death threats?
      How many of us were threaten to be killed, gay-bashed, shoved, pushed, spit on?

      And why is this happening? Because YOU, mister, and people like you started it and continue to do it, continue to spread lies and hatred!

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m not fond of the idea to threaten people or vandalize their cars, or anything of that matter, au contraire, I’m appalled. The whole Carrie Prejean thing was way too overblown, and no wonder people think we would go to any length… she just spoke her mind, whatever, who is she? just a barbie! why listen to her? move on! but no, some people had to push the scandal way too far, and now she’s playing a victim, and you know what? she is a victim of herself, but also of those who went to far! With stories like this we send the wrong massage! We’re not vigilantes! We just want our rights. And they will use anything to their advantage, especially something like threats and violence from us towards them. We have to take a high road and to be above this. Otherwise we’ll remain those wicked, crazy, evil gays they scare their kids with…

      Jan 9, 2010 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • soul_erosion
      soul_erosion

      This is what I fear the most. That, indeed, his safety could be of great concern, but NOT from us, but rather from his own kind. With the history of misinformation & lies from the likes of NOM and their ilk, nothing is beyond comprehension of fighting dirty, they would sacrifice one of their own at the drop of a hat. Someone could merely hire some thug to attack this man and then blame it on us. I hope for our sake nothing happens to this man or any other witnesses.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexander
      Alexander

      “Guys, I’m really into this whole Prop 8 thing, and I know I said I’d help, but I can’t miss LOST! It’s the final season!”

      Jan 9, 2010 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexandre
      Alexandre

      Great comment No.1 KirilleXXI and definitely valid fears No.2
      and just LOL @ No.3 Alexander

      Jan 9, 2010 at 3:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      We are really angry, and we need to stay angry, but we also need to rise above the most banal instinct and fight with class.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 3:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      In 50 years of the LGBT struggle ANGER has NEVER worked. Maybe it’s about time we let go of old, tired ideas? We should be the smarter ones.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 3:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      Brian, I think you might be confusing Anger with violence. Anger is the appropriate emotion. Violence is a stupid reaction which will garner even less support from the middle-of-the-road folks.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 3:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • trickstertara
      trickstertara

      Boo hoo.

      You didn’t want people to criticise you publicly, you shouldn’t have become a lawyer and taken on such high profile cases. You could have been a paralegal and lived in quiet, fagbashing anonymity with half the responsibility. Fuck off.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 3:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      No, Fitz. I meant anger. We have been mad for 50 years. It doesn’t create anything. We have engaged in angry arguments, made angry demands and had angry marches. We get angry at the ‘other side’ and that only makes them appear stronger.

      No, anger doesn’t help. It’s real and we all feel it, but it isn’t helpful. Never has been, never will be.

      Anger (and all of its associated actions) keeps us divided and prevents us from looking for real solutions. It prevents us from building coalitions and gaining support. It keeps us where we are – hated. Angry, and hated.

      If we want to be equal we have to get people to join us. Anger doesn’t inspire anyone to join us. Understanding does.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 4:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • naghanenu
      naghanenu

      I agree. Anger doesnt do jack, it just reaps more anger. Many supporters of Prop 8 did it out of anger. They felt the law bullied them to accept what they did not want or ask for. Opponents preyed on that and were able to turn this into some gay propaganda that was backed by the legislators. And they won! People have every right to oppose gay marriage as they have to support it. It is not anyone’s place to intimidate them because they do not see ur point of view. You cannot win this that way. Even if the trial wins on the side of gay rights, such actions will only fuel anti gay marriage supporters to take it to the next level and they will have support from the public. If this is supposed to be a civil rights thing then learn from the 60s. I want this trial televised but not to encourage attacks against people who do not see support ur point of view. If the anti gay side started bashing people for supporting gay marriage, what will this turn into?

      Jan 9, 2010 at 4:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steven
      Steven

      I think this is his website: tfccal.org. It doesn’t have much information on it.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 5:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • KirilleXXI
      KirilleXXI

      Anger leads to violence and hate speech, we start saying things like “We, gays, hate you, straights, for being so bigoted and hung up on Bible, unable to open your minds and your hearts to see the reality!” But what do they hear? They only hear “We hate you!” That’s it. Everything after that just goes blank. No one likes to be hated, so they hate in return. And that’s how those who hesitate on gay issues choose their side: “Aha! You hate us? Then we’ll hate you back!

      All the snarky comments and name-calling after being defeated is an understandable human reaction, but it’s also harmful. Can we tone it down? Should we? On the one hand, we don’t wanna give up and show the other side we take the beating lightly (thus the “bring it on!” attitudes and heated speech); on the other hand, we don’t want to come off as a bunch o’ rednecks who will brainlessly fight anybody standing on their way, which is scary, and fear is not our friend. As always, it’s all about balance, about finding the golden mean.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 5:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jurlesia
      Jurlesia

      Brian NYC, anger is a legitimate emotion and if you’re not familiar with how the modern gay rights movement started, I ask that you do a little research on the Stonewall riots. It was anger at how glbt people were being treated that finally motivated people to come out and stand up for their rights. That’s not to say that’s how we should treat others, but if that is the emotion that inspires us to do something about the shitty situation we’re in, then so be it. Really, too many glbts are complacent these days, having been born into a world where it is more acceptable to be out at a younger age, but unfortunately it is this comfort and in many cases apathy that does nothing to advance our movement.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 5:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      @No. 13 · Jurlesia
      That’s exactly the point I was going to make. Does Brian not think the people involved in the Stonewall riots weren’t angry?

      Better yet, do you think Martin Luther King Jr. was not angry. I say he was. But he used that anger and let it propel him and the movement into strategic ways.

      Better yet… what do you propose, Brian?

      Jan 9, 2010 at 5:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      It is very dangerous for disenfranchised people to talk themselves out of anger. Anger is an appropriate, useful motivator. How you use it is the choice. Does it keep you donating time and money and speaking out? Or does it make you throw a brick? THAT is where your choices are. BTW, I suggest a book called “The Dance of Anger”. Good book. Written for women, but I think some of us could benefit from getting permission to be angry, and to use the anger the right way.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 6:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      Anger is real. That wasn’t my point.

      First, Stonewall was 40 years ago. What happened then is NOT happening today. In that case they defended themselves. The circumstances AT THAT TIME justified their actions. We DON’T have those circumstances today. Except for a rare incident, we are not exactly being beaten by the cops every Friday night.

      The world has changed alot in 40 years, but as a movement WE haven’t. We still have numerous ill-advised expressions of anger. Protests, yelling, calling people “bigots” and “homophobes,” threatening and harassment.

      When we engage in the “angry fight” we do not make any progress. The “other side” is not going to change their minds. It is the movable middle we need to focus on and get to join us. That can only be accomplished by acting civil.

      Anger should inspire us, but that’s all the good it does. From there we need to be smarter than the other side. It is very important because the “middle” has become disinterested and turns a deaf ear to both sides. As long as we are one of the “angry sides” we will not make progress.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 6:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • truthteller
      truthteller

      Anger is appropriate and needed.
      It is the emotion that lets you know you’ve been wronged and it propels you to action as Jurlesia points out. It must be focused and used wisely to accomplish our goals, not to cause violence.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • exactly
      exactly

      rosa parks was angry. The riots, the la riots, missisipi burning. Lol, who stupidly said the civil rights movement wasn’t angry? Doh,do your research dude.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 6:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh-ooo-aaa
      Josh-ooo-aaa

      Stonewall and MLK were both +40 years ago.

      Do you old timers have any fresh examples? Maybe during the last 10-15 years?

      Jan 9, 2010 at 6:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe Mustich, JP
      Joe Mustich, JP

      Good luck to attorneys Boies and Olson! Can’t wait to watch!

      Onward to equality, Joe Mustich, Justice of the Peace,
      Washington, Connecticut, USA

      And congrats to CT for supporting marriage.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 7:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MackMichael
      MackMichael

      We live on a private street in Orange County, CA. I purchased a box of 32 No on 8 signs–30 were stolen by election day. Car vandalized? Yep. Hateful notes in the mailbox, disgusting and insulting names hurled at us? Check and check. Lost family members? Ah-huh. Still out there fighting? Absolutely, and we never stooped to the antics used against us. We hang in there because we know we are on the right side of the issue, conversely Tam falls because somewhere deep inside he knows he fights for the wrong side.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 7:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      What’s the strategy MackMichael? How do we win?

      Jan 9, 2010 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jurlesia
      Jurlesia

      @Brian NYC, no one is saying the fight is identical, different times different circumstances. My point was to illustrate the fact that anger can be an effective tool to motivate your base. As Fitz pointed out, it is how you choose to channel that anger that determines whether or not you are going to be productive and get people on your side. It was fear and anger that successfully motivated conservatives to vote our rights away. Besides, violence against gays whether physical or emotional is still one in the same. Maybe you haven’t been paying attention but raids on gay bars are continuing to this day; what about the Dallas Rainbow Lounge or the ATL Eagle Bar?

      I’m sorry, but I also have to disgree with your statement that the glbt movement has not changed in 40 years. Forty years ago we did not have groups like Lambda Legal, GLAAD, etc, fighting for our rights and dignity. We were not organized and we were still underground, by neccessity. It was only through the courageous actions of a very small minority at the time that we’ve been able to inch ourselves toward true equality. Further, protests and acts of civil disobedience ARE sometimes necessary. Ever heard of the suffragettes or Rosa Parks? Perhaps you have never experienced homophobia, but not all of us live in the cosmopolitan city that is NYC. There will always be counter-productive extremists in every movement, but please stop portraying the gay movement by the fringe.

      Additionally, no one is saying you can’t be angry and act civil at the same time. As long as your anger is a personal motivator and not something that turns to violence, I think it is entirely justifiable. I am angry that my glbt brothers and sisters and I had our right to marry stripped from us last November here in CA, but that doesn’t mean I wont participate in civil and respectful debate with anyone who will listen.

      Anyway, the beginning of your last PP sentence was exactly my point, thank you for pointing that out. ;)

      Jan 9, 2010 at 7:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David Ehrenstein
      David Ehrenstein

      We win by keeping up the pressure and refusing to give the motherfuckers an inch!

      Jan 9, 2010 at 7:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      William Tam-ptrum has discovered that fighting for your rights is a time-consuming and messy business. Boo hoo, buddy.

      Anger is an emotion and is best channeled in a thoughtful and strategic way. Unleasing pent up anger without doing something you’ll regret later is one of those huge tasks we face as we become adults.

      Unfortunately, the short term elation that comes with letting it out thoughlessly [cuz DAMN it feels good to just do SOMETHING] usually is destructive to whatever we’re trying to accomplish. Namecalling and cheap shots don’t lead to progress, and usually muck up the stuff we’re attempting to get done.

      Tam gets to go back to the status quo, and we get to keep fighting for change. Sucks, don’t it.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 8:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jadis
      Jadis

      Oderint dum metuant.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 8:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      Lukas – “and we get to keep fighting for change.”

      How? When do we Win? What’s the strategy?

      I’m sorry, but the premise of “fighting” doesn’t make much sense. There must be smarter things than fighting. Why don’t we have a strategy to win? I don’t get it.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 8:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MackMichael
      MackMichael

      Brian NYC: Growing up, I was a nationally ranked athlete. I never showed anger, I channeled it so it was directed in a way that would help me win. During the campaign here, I suppose I did the same thing. I’m fortunate in that I have a strong religious background, which means that I know various religions, and that I have a very strong knowledge and understanding of biblical scripture. I also have a graduate degree in Political Science. Before getting out there, I directed my anger as an impetus to I bone up on all the scriptures used against us, and re-familiarize myself with constitution law and civil rights. That is how I used my anger, and then when I canvassed or stood on streets, when I spoke at churches, to neighbors and to family, I was well versed and capable of representing my position well enough that I can say in all honesty that several social conservatives and church goers promised to rethink their positions, to give my arguments some thought, and several folks who were on the fence parted with me no longer on the fence, but stated that they were now in our camp.

      I tend to put my weight behind those who are fighting for our rights. That means that I understand the risk of moving forward with a case at the Federal level, but that I also understand it is going to move forward with or without my support. I’m willing to let go of my fears and fully support that effort to show solidarity. Folks march in the street? I’ll put on my walkin’ shoes and walk with them.

      I’m old enough to remember the fight during the AIDs crisis. I was very young, but I remember it well. We were dying in mass, and by the time I was of age, we were still dying in mass. Many in the gay community were furious with the strategies of groups like Queen Nation and Act Up, and as a kid I kind of recoiled at it myself. As I got older, I came to realize if not for their efforts, my generation would have been largely wiped out. I agree with Jurlesia, there are times when civil disobedience is an appropriate response, but that strategy evolves over time. Before this is over, we will likely see that strategy develop further concerning our issues, which extend beyond marriage rights.

      In tennis, you can’t get too far ahead of yourself; think too far ahead in the match and you will take your eye off the ball, and invariably lose. Folks see to think of our battle in finite terms; what single strategy will win and put an end to this madness? Well, there is no single strategy, and even after we will, we will need to continue to fight to protect our rights; after all, Roe v. Wade did not put an end to that fight, which like our own, motivates religious bigots of all cultures and races.

      My approach is to think of what I can do right now to further our cause and support my brothers and sisters. Julesia and I may be shaped by geography. Even Los Angeles is less a city than a collection of suburbs in search of a city, thus we are not shaped by the energy and buzz of a city–even participating in march takes a lot more effort and travel here, than it would in NYC.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 8:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      Wait, maybe we’re too busy fighting (whatever that actually means) to figure out how to win. This us-against-them war isn’t winnable. It will just continue forever.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 8:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"
      Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"

      Bullies are, ultimately, pussies. William Tam is simply another pussy bully.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 8:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Barney F.
      Barney F.

      If you truly believe in your moral crusade, you should be willing to risk life and limb to see it to its natural end. If you are so afraid you back down because of something on YouTube, maybe you shouldn’t have joined the court case in the first place. Tam Tam had to expect this would get a lot of scrutiny. Does he no longer have faith in the justness of his own cause? Man up, you little bigot.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 9:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 29 · Brian NYC “Wait, maybe we’re too busy fighting (whatever that actually means) to figure out how to win. This us-against-them war isn’t winnable. It will just continue forever.”

      Look at the data – Proposition 22 won by about 10 percentage points more than Proposition 8 did only 8 years later. So, just keep doing the same thing so that downward trend in support for such measures drops below 50 percent.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 9:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MackMichael
      MackMichael

      Brian NYC, we fight everyday, all of us. We fight inertia to get up and take a run. We fight to wake up and face that tough work day. We fight to put food on the tables. We fight to feed the homeless. We fight to teach our children. We fight traffic to get “there” on time. And, we fight for our rights. Life is a “fight,” otherwise your life is either very charmed or you are simply not living it very well. Gandhi fought!

      We’re not necessarily talkin’ fisticuffs and brass knuckles here. Some of us are talking about that good ol’ fighting spirit.

      Of course, you could go the alternative and roll over and sleep the time away; give up, dig a hole, crawl in it and pull the dirt in behind you.

      Come on, what ideas do you have?

      Jan 9, 2010 at 9:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      MackMichael,

      We’re talking about our equality, not your daily challenges.

      If we are fighting for our equality, HOW and WHEN do we WIN?

      Jan 9, 2010 at 9:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      When Tam said, “I do not like people questioning me regarding fourteen year old articles I wrote in the Chinese language to my constituents,” the obvious question is “why?”

      Did someone demand as part of discovery that he translate the lot of them into English? Now, that could be a lot of work!

      Jan 9, 2010 at 9:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Obote
      Mr. Obote

      Hello, my name if Mr. Obote, from Sierra Leone, and I’m looking for partners in building my church.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 10:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MackMichael
      MackMichael

      Brian NYC, I fear that I am rendered incapable of telling you this. I have no crystal ball or special powers to look into the future. Strategy constantly shifts as life unfolds and the other side plays new cards, and public opinion shifts. Perhaps another here can supply you with the definitive answers you seek, but when the do, I wish to ask them about a hand I’d like to play in Vegas. Until then, I hope another can supply you with the answers you seek. Me? I’m doing what I can in our local area…that would be a good place for you to start. Find an organization you believe in, and volunteer some time.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 10:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MackMichael
      MackMichael

      One more thing, Brian, if you can harness the energy and talent you have for confronting your gay allies, and redirect that to your foes, you will be formidable indeed!

      Jan 9, 2010 at 10:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      MackMichael – Thanks. Young people (like me) aren’t really involved because we can’t see a way to win. I’m hoping somebody organizes a real effort to finish this game. I’m glad I haven’t had to endure 40-50 years of it, but I also don’t want to be still looking for the answer 10 years from now.

      I think a lot of people my age would participate if we thought we could win.

      Thanks for the advice.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 10:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pantherq
      pantherq

      Oh poor baby you don’t like to be treated like you incite people to treat us?

      I have no doubts that exaggeration is a major part of his claims.

      Jan 9, 2010 at 11:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MackMichael
      MackMichael

      Sad, Brian, really very sad. Shame.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 12:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HueMan
      HueMan

      In the unfortunate event Mr. Tam were physically attacked, would this “straight bashing” be covered under the Matthew Shepard Act as a hate crime? Irony of ironies….

      Jan 10, 2010 at 12:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jurlesia
      Jurlesia [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @Brian NYC, It’s sad to hear anyone, young or old, would not even want try to secure their own equal rights and are satisfied with being second class citizens. I guess as you get older you’ll realize nothing in life is guaranteed. Maybe they should change that old saying from, “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again” to, “If at first you don’t succeed, just give up… unless there’s a guarantee.”

      @MackMichael, Couldn’t agree with you more. I think it’s even sadder to think that some youngins’ idea of the gay rights movement begins and ends with Lady Gaga, however fabulous she may be. Maybe if they were old enough to have lived through that horrible HIV/AIDS pandemic when our friends, brothers, and sisters were dropping left and right they would understand the importance of securing our marriage and partnership rights. My heart breaks when I think of Lisa Marie Pond (and countless others) who was refused visitation from her family and die alone because the hospital didn’t recognize her gay relationship. Anyway, while I’m not sure Brian is in the minority is terms of attitudes of younger glbts, there are promising signs that things are changing. More than ever, young faces are beginning to speak out as evidenced by the large youth turn-out @ the NEM in DC last year. Promising signs of things to come :)

      Jan 10, 2010 at 1:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      Hey guys, check out http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=11794864
      for what Tam is really afraid of. One of the arguments against Proposition Eight is that it was motivated by bias, and Tam is, shall we say, an ideal “hostile witness” for the plaintiffs.

      According to the web site: “One by one, other states would fall into Satan’s hands,” he wrote. “Every child, when growing up, would fantasize marrying someone of the same sex. More children would become homosexuals.”

      These aren’t merely the words of a bigot, but rather the words of a complete and utter idiot. And a hot lawyer like David Boies would milk that for all it was worth. I can imagine (sort of): “Now Mr. Tam, would you claim there is no bias if someone were to say that ‘other states would fall into Satan’s hand if we did not ban people from attending your church’? So exactly how do you maintain that such a statement against your religioun is biased but the same statment directed toward gays is not?”

      Boies would make mincemeat of this guy. It would be the legal equivalent of throwing the Christians to the lions.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      They are *terrified* of having their arguments shown to be crap in court.

      When arguing against the borderline-retarded A-gays, most of whom have their jobs based on who they know (and who they’ve slept with), coherence doesn’t matter all that much. They can accuse gays of wanting to send Christians to the gas chambers and some submissive dyke or Armani-clad politico homo will lisp “I respectfully disagree with that assessment, though I respect his right to believe that.”

      In court it’s a bit different. Olsen and Boies will actually ridicule such arguments effectively.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 3:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ritorna
      Ritorna

      Poor man. Prop 8 didn’t turn out to be quick and easy after all. People hate him now. Pity! Well, at least he gets to go home to his lawfully wedded spouse. A lot of his victims can’t.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 3:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      It constantly amazes me that the perpetrators of hate and discrimination can claim to be the victims.

      It seems obvious to me that gay people have been on the receiving end of vile acts of hatred, including criminal acts, for a very long time. My own house and vehicles have been vandalized at least ten different times, and I have been the victim of violence on several occasions. On most of those, the police flatly refused to even write a report, and no active investigations were pursued. I think most gay people have had similar experiences. So, gay people have good cause to be angry.

      Given that gays have good cause to be angry, it also does not surprise me that some might act out, and express that anger inappropriately. Being gay does not automatically give a person any special degree of wisdom or self-restraint.

      Hence, when someone self-identifies as the perpetrator of hate and discrimination, he or she should reasonably expect to receive some of that anger. And, some of it might be expressed inappropriately, by either violence or vandalism.

      That doesn’t make the perpetrator a victim. It only means that some of the real victims are choosing to respond by direct action, rather than the socially-approved legal means.

      Imagine what would happen to a white man wearing a K.K.K. robe, walking in a black ghetto in the deep south, on Saturday evening, fifty years ago. If he was alone, he should reasonably expect people to yell at him, and some people might even throw stones at him. That doesn’t make him a victim. It only demonstrates his own lack of judgment.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 8:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JohnVisser
      JohnVisser

      Wait a minute. . .

      Tam petitioned the court back in May of 2009 to be included as a defendant – he was not forced by the court. And secondly, the so-called harassment of Tam took place in 2008 during the Prop 8 campaign. He has not been “harassed” since the beginning of this federal lawsuit.

      Tam’s request to be withdrawn has been orchestrated by the Pro-Prop 8 people to portray themselves as innocent victims. Their goal is to have the Supreme Court block the use of video cameras in the courtroom – they don’t want the world to see their fear-based and irrationals arguments ripped to shreds in open court where speculation and fear mongering will not be allowed.

      Cowards. .

      Jan 10, 2010 at 9:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      We have here a rerun of a story told millions of times over the ages……..A loud mouth bully will run rampart and intimidate someone they percieve as being weak and or defenseless. This can go on for years. Suddenly the person grows a set of balls or breasticles and begins to fight back. Now instead of a cowering victim, the bully is faced with an adversary. And then just like in the school yard, suddenly the bully is crying like a baby.

      The best analogy one can muster about the cameras in the courtrooms is this: You suddenly turn a light on in a dark room full of cockaroaches and they all disperse and hide. Same with the red light on the video camera……….

      For decades Gays have been bashed and harassed. Time to give these scumbags a taste of the medicine they so willingly dispensed to the Gay community…………….

      Jan 10, 2010 at 10:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David Scott
      David Scott

      It should go without saying that a person should be allowed to marry whomever they choose. Until the right-wing, religious fanatics in this country stop trying to control everybody else and force their “morals” down the throat of the country, there can be no real freedom in the United States. I invite you to my web pages devoted to raising awareness on this puritan attack on our freedom: http://freethegods.blogspot.com/2009/06/san-franciscos-gay-pride-parade.html

      Jan 10, 2010 at 10:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bryan
      Bryan

      This is AMAZING News!! Keep Fucking With Him!

      I am young and fully aware of everything that is going on with the gay movement. I will fight until the day I die for equal rights for gay’s. It makes me sick to my stomach how other people don’t see the need to fight or have to be forced into action. There is no HOW TO GUIDE for achieving equal rights, WAKE UP!

      Jan 10, 2010 at 10:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tadpolicus Wex
      Tadpolicus Wex

      It’s all about branding. If the entire GLBT community & their supporters sow the memes that “religious extremists” are pushing a “radical Christian agenda of redefining United States Constitution”
      by excluding law abiding “GLBT Taxpayers” from basic civil rights. no no, they are not bigots or homophobes, they are terrorists!!!

      Remember, those who would violate our civil rights are abusing us as taxpayers, let all of your Republican family/friends/co-workers. Remind them that extremist Christians are terrorists.

      Yes on 8 = terrorism. Repeat repeat repeat. Remember, our opponents can only carry a few thoughts in their heads at a time. Use their fear against them!!!

      Jan 10, 2010 at 11:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tadpolicus Wex
      Tadpolicus Wex

      Better yet, voting no on civil rights is “Institutional Terrorism”! Make your congresspeople aware of their suspected terrorist activities.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 11:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • soul_erosion
      soul_erosion

      If only a few our San Francisco gay police officers would volunteer some of their off duty time to protect this man through the course of the trail, The Tam-Pax Brigade.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 11:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sean Chapin
      Sean Chapin

      For the record, I have received a number of petty hateful messages from my YouTube videos, and my car has been vandalized with the word “FAG” prominently keyed on the passenger door. That hasn’t stopped me from advocating for LGBT civil rights. I see how fear can close minds and further ignorance, and I choose hope over fear any day.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 11:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      @No. 55 · Sean Chapin
      That’s messed up. Keying your car is messed up and then attacking you with a hate word on top of it. But here’s the thing, how do they know you are gay? Are they just being dicks or are you friends out and well known in the town and so they jump to that conclusion? I’m just wondering.

      Anyway, Keep up the good work.

      Aside: If u posted on a more fun thread, I would make a complimentary comment… but it’s not appropriate for this thread and your demeanor. Just my hunch.

      @No. 51 · Bryan
      Here’s a dude who is trying to make things better for LGBT peeps in his own way. I would go into further detail but I think MackMichael has covered most of it. I admire your energy and your gumption. I can feel your frustration (and youthful demeanor) but I think you need to channel it and seek out avenues of support. If they don’t meet your criteria, then switch to another one. NYC is pretty big, I’m sure there are tons of different groups with different strategies that are accessible.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 12:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • muahaha
      muahaha

      He should be scared… HELL HATH NO FURY LIKE A MINORITY SCORNED, YOU BASTARD!

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • naghanenu
      naghanenu

      I have a concern here. if gay rights prevail in this lawsuit,wont this be a problem on the long run? After all this was a voter based initiative…that is, the people had spoken. Now the court wants to overturn it. wasn’t that the reason for Prop 8 in the first place? Because the legislators allowed gay marriage thus ignoring the general consensus of the people on the matter. That is the argument that opponents used and that is really why they won. The implication of this is actually beginning to look funny to me. A law was passed by the supreme court of a state, the legal process of putting that law up for a debate by the people was done and the people rejected it. Now we are going to court again to say that the repeal of that law was unconstitutional citing that the majority should not vote on the rights of the minority. However, what if prop 8 hadnt passed because of the same majority vote what would the argument be? There are some doors that should not be opened and this is one of them. I am not referring to gay marriage, I’m referring to everything else. If people vote on something, are we trying to say that their vote should be undermined becos we don’t like it? If people voted against prop 8 will it be right to take them to court because we did not like their decision? Maybe i am overthinking this? But this looks wrong somehow. Someone please assist me on this

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David Scott
      David Scott

      @Naghanenu: Civil rights cannot simply be “voted away”. That is the purpose of the bill or rights. Religious activists should be left out of these decisions completely.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      You are UNDER-thinking. The U S Constitution states that is a right for ALL people to have Equal rights. NO further discussion or thinking should therefore be required. When people want to discriminate, then the courts are there to set them straight. At least that was the plan.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      TO: Jurlesia, MackMichael, Tadpolicus Wex, Bryan, and Scott NY’ER:

      I think it a very appropriate to ask HOW WE CAN WIN?

      I know many people are “fighting” and I also know we’ve been fighting for 50 years. Apparently all this fighting isn’t working.

      I also know we’ve invested a lot of money in organizations like HRC and political parties – mostly Democrats I also know how excited we all were about Obama and now it feels like Clinton all over again.

      I think we have an amazing community of very smart, creative and even crafty people. Therefore, I suggest we must be missing something or we’re not thinking hard enough.

      From all the polling data I’ve seen posted on this site I don’t believe most Americans are against us. I just don’t. Sure, in NYC it’s not the same as Texas, but I just think the majority of the people are over religion and are not offended by homosexuality.

      I want to know how to win. Somebody must be working on it. I asked HRC and I received an email that said: “We must stay the course.” I replied and said “what’s the course?” They never responded. That’s when I stopped giving them money.

      So, please don’t attack me and suggest I am “apathetic,” because I am just the opposite. I want to win. I am willing to do whatever it takes. What is the strategy? What’s the Plan?

      I’m sure there are many young(er) people just like me that want an answer to those simple questions before they participate.

      Thank you for reading this. I hope you understand my frustration, as well as my desire.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 2:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      “The Prop * Revolution Will Be Televised” Naghanenu (AKA M.G.) Read the article and the comments afterwards for the answer to you question.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 5:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Prop 8 here’s the link: http://www.queerty.com/the-prop-8-revolution-will-be-televised-and-why-it-will-be-a-blast-for-everyone-20091218/

      Jan 10, 2010 at 5:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • T2nDC
      T2nDC

      @ 61 Brian NYC:

      There is NO movement. Chill.

      After Obama (8 Yrs) there will be a Republican President and majority (8 Yrs). In 2024 we’ll have “hope” again with another Democrat. Maybe we’ll prevail then. (We’ve done this before).

      So, chill until 2024. You’ll be 40-ish by then. Don’t waste your time now – enjoy yourself. Look for a movement to start again in 14-15 years.

      Jan 10, 2010 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      @No. 63 · 1EqualityUSA

      Prop 8 here’s the link: http://www.queerty.com/the-pro…..-20091218/
      ======
      Seriously. I need a law degree and lots of time to understand what was being said there. Thanks for pointing it out tho to everyone.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 10:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      So, we can’t win.

      That’s what I thought. Thanks for saving me the time and effort.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 10:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chance
      Chance

      Not within the current movement, Brian, but don’t let them trick you into thinking there’s nothing constructive we can do. There is a strategy, it’s just that no one has tried.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 11:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Interesting, so it’s ok for him to actively seek to attack my life, to try to force me to be a second class citizen and to mentally abuse the entire gay community but he can’t handle having signs taken from his yard? What a pathetic sad little man.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 11:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MackMichael
      MackMichael

      There is something that everyone can do to advance this cause, which I believe all strategists could agree upon. You can not only take the time to introduce yourself to folks as a gay person, but you can bring your relationships out of the closet, to show those with whom you interact on a daily basis that your relationship and the individual who is the object of your affection is cherished by you. You can reveal to the world around you (your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers and the person at the gym whom you strike up a conversation with) that you are gay, and that the way you love is not unlike the way others have loved through the history of time. If you are in an area in which you feel safe, hold the hand of the person you are dating or the hand of the person you share a life with.

      Now, if this is still too much for you, should this require too much energy and effort to you, then step back and away.

      I’m not old enough to remember Stonewall, but well old enough to have been fully impacted by the AIDs crisis wherein the gay community fought alone for their very lives; wherein we organized volunteer programs just to help folks eat by delivering them meals when no one else would draw close enough to a sufferer to assist them; wherein we even organized volunteers to go to the homes of those infected to walk, feed and clean their pet because no one else stood beside them and their pets were ALL they had for company. Brave men an women took to the streets with only whistles as their weapons, to bring attention to the fact that they were dying!

      Personally, I don’t have a lot of time for whiners who actively look for excuses not to participate, rather then help to discover new solutions to save the next generation. If all you can do is look for a means to walk away and roll over, then you’ll either win no rights at all or you will enjoy the fruits of the labor of those generations who fought before you–as you already are.

      The truly frightening thing is that religious fundamentalists, you will come to see, will always be fighting against you, wishing to erode any right that comes your way, ready to strip you bare of all human dignity, ready beat you to a bloody pulp, and your generation will have no one who knows how to organize and work towards your rights, because you’ve been shifting your energies to find a way not to work for what comes your way.

      “Entitlement” is an illusion, there is no such thing, and that lesson will be one that comes with great pain and a very steep cost.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 12:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 58 · naghanenu wrote, “I have a concern here. if gay rights prevail in this lawsuit,wont this be a problem on the long run? After all this was a voter based initiative…that is, the people had spoken. Now the court wants to overturn it. wasn’t that the reason for Prop 8 in the first place? ”

      Actually, the plaintiffs want to overturn it and the court has yet to rule (it just started hearing the case today), so nobody knows what the court “wants.” Are you suggesting that the court should ignore the plaintiff’s right to file a lawsuit?

      Proposition Eight made a change to the California State Constitution. The lawsuit is being filed in federal court arguing that Proposition Eight was motivated by bias and is therefore illegal under federal law.

      Just because the voters pass something doesn’t mean it is OK. If, for example, they pass a law in Utah requiring all residents to join the Mormon Church, the argument that “the people have spoken” will get you nowhere – the U.S. Constitution guarantees freedom of religion to all U.S. citizens regardless of what state they live in.

      Jan 11, 2010 at 5:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      The Court is hammering out all questions to avoid calls of injustice later. It’s rolling along, unfolding at a pace of its own.

      “If your attack is going too well, you’re walking into an ambush.”
      -Infantry Journal

      Jan 11, 2010 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Freddie
      Freddie

      Nothing like a gaybashing reichwing fist puppet to whine about being a “victim.”

      Jan 11, 2010 at 7:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chapeau
      Chapeau

      I always squirm and feel very uncomfortable for those poor souls who ended up on camera yelling racial slurs and when interviewed used the ‘n’ word freely and without remorse … during the early days of Civil Rights clashes in Alabama and many other southern cities .. we’ve all seen the newsreels and new reports from that era …

      Because those god fearing xtians who backed up their hatred for African-Americans on scriptures in the bible afterall … YEs THESE regular good xtian folks are forever memorialized as rabid vicious racist when viewed through a 21st Century lens …

      It is Exactly what is going to happen to those opposed to Gay Equality … in the end. And mark my words:: those opposed to Gay EQuality are smart enough to know that you don’t want to end up on camera for posterity forever and ever saying the things they believe – because they’ve seen the old news reels too!

      Jan 13, 2010 at 5:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Dear Chapeau, Our community is admonished when we look to our country’s past for answers to current debates. The civil rights fight is the closest parallel we have to identify this group of Americans attempting to maintain inequality. The footage to which you referred, in post 73, is the closest we have in our whole 234 years as a Nation. We recognize it. Legally, Americans need to be considered equal and then, from there, we are free to be either great or mundane, depending on our gifts.

      Jan 13, 2010 at 12:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill
      Bill

      I ordered 6 egg rolls from Tam Tam’s Yum Yum 3 days ago.

      Still waiting…

      Jan 13, 2010 at 4:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bradinthemiddle
      Bradinthemiddle

      Just a note to everyone here that BrianNYC does not speak for all youth. There are many, many of us that are currently active – fighting for our rights.

      @BrianNYC – if you can’t figure out what is meant by “fighting,” please save us all the effort and just go home. You’re not helping anybody with your semantic games.

      We are fighting by marching in the streets and being seen, we are fighting by getting out there on the streets and informing people about the issues, we are fighting by combating the uninformed messages and lies of the religious right (oh no, combat? another word I’m sure you’ll try and play semantics with?!?) we are out there fighting in the courts (even the cases that are not so high profile), we are out there working our butts off during the day at our day-job so that we can donate to our champions at night, and yes there are a great number of us who are having to physically fight off our attackers. There are any number of organizations out there that will tell you what it is that you can do to help “fight” for our rights. If you don’t want to call it “fighting,” fine, but don’t sit there, play semantics games and then sit on your perch as if you’re holier than though.

      Jan 13, 2010 at 7:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bradinthemiddle
      Bradinthemiddle

      @BrianNYC –
      And, if you’re going to speak so vehemently about not “fighting” and sitting there screaming for someone to come up with a better idea –

      I’ve got a better idea – come up with one on your own – because until you present a better and viable option, all we’ve got is what we’ve got now and you’re, again, just wasting people’s time.

      Jan 13, 2010 at 7:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      Sorry BradInTheMiddle.

      But, your fighting doesn’t work. It doesn’t inspire anyone to change their minds and only irritates people.

      I posted because I wanted to find our if anybody was actually trying to figure out how to WIN. Nobody was.

      Your comments are not helpful. MOST young people are NOT participating because we want to win. We want to know how to win and when that will be. That requires thought and creativity – not fighting.

      Jan 13, 2010 at 8:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      Sorry BradInTheMiddle, the LGBT Community has been “fighting” for 50 years. I asked about WINNING.

      I’m not going to FIGHT as you suggest. I think there must be a better way to handle the problem. We don’t have a MOVEMENT. We don’t have a STRATEGY. We don’t have a PLAN.

      When that happens and we know HOW and WHEN we can WIN, I’ll participate. You can keep on fighting – it’s NOT working. I’m interested in winning.

      Jan 14, 2010 at 11:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • X
      X

      @Brian NYC: I disagree — Anger is still legitimate here, and anger is not limited to just physical attack or restriction. Insult, defamation, false accusations, etc, all can cause justified anger. In our case, the problem is some of all of that, combined with gross unfairness in America for decades.

      Yes, we need bridge-builders or diplomats. But the fact is that most of us feel angry from all this because it’s a natural reaction even today, in 2010. People are losing money and healthcare because of lack of marriage rights; we can’t serve openly in tons of jobs including the military; anti-gay discrimination is still allowed in the USA; gay immigrants can’t bring over partners; and overall there are LOTS of gay kids who are harmed by living in the closet in anti-gay communities. These are very real reasons to be angry, and people must know and understand this.

      Jan 14, 2010 at 2:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bradinthemiddle
      Bradinthemiddle

      @BrianNYC –
      Yes, we have been fighting for the last 50 years and we have made tremendous gains during that time. If you want to “WIN” you have to “FIGHT.” This is PLAINLY and CLEARLY evident by the gains we have made in the polls and the MUCH, MUCH smaller margins that the religious right has been winning by. If you can’t see that this is progress and a means to a win, you’re clearly beyond help. There is no magic button out there for us to push so that we can get our rights. There is no magic one person we have to convince. It is a lot of work and people like you are doing nothing but getting in the way.

      We don’t have a “movement???????” We don’t have a “strategy?????”
      Are you blind and deaf? do you live under a rock? or is your IQ really that low? I, dunno, maybe you’re one of those crazy hippies that lives in a tree and actually doesn’t own a tv, cell phone or ever have any contact with outside world.

      Truthfully, though, it sounds to me like you’re nothing more than a troll whose out there on the message boards trying to convince the LGBT population that it’s hopeless and there’s nothing we can do. Then we can all just “stop fighting,” roll over and play dead. Yeah, that will work. WRONG! If you want to “win,” as you put it, you HAVE to fight and there is no other choice. Unless, of course, you’ve got something to bring to the table. Do you? Haven’t heard it yet and I doubt we will – because if you actually did have something, it would have been shared by now instead of just whining and urinating on the work that others are doing and have been doing that actually HAVE gained rights for the LGBT movement. That’s right – MOVEMENT.

      Jan 14, 2010 at 3:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      Okay BradInTheMiddle, you did it again.

      You claim our equality strategy is fighting. That’s ridiculous.

      1. We’ve never won a public vote on an LGBT issue.

      2. We’ve never passed an LGBT Law in the US Congress.

      3. We’ve spent 50 years and $2-3 billion dollars.

      4. We’ve protested, marched, yelled and screamed for 50 years.

      5. The majority of Americans believe we are “morally wrong.”

      So, where’s the progress?

      It is clear that if we do something for 50 years and it doesn’t work, that maybe we should consider other solutions. I think the LGBT community has many smart people. I want “smart,” not more fighting. Fighting (as protesting and demanding) isn’t very smart. It’s kind of a default action. It’s also the easiest (and probably least effective) idea we have as a community.

      Jan 14, 2010 at 4:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1equalityUSA
      1equalityUSA

      We need to Unionize all of the gay organizations under one roof and elect one representative every 5 years (10 year term limit). Union dues would be spent lobbying congress. Streamline all of the different monies into legal avenues. I stopped supporting HRC this year, too many years to late. They could join the Queer Union. HRC had a half of a Billion “chances” $$$ with very little to show for our financial support. We need to lump every group into a powerhouse network.

      Jan 14, 2010 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      1EqualityUSA:

      Lobbying doesn’t work. That’s what HRC wasted a half billion dollars on.

      Jan 14, 2010 at 11:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      I suggest that BrianNYC do some reading about the “progress” made by LGTBs in the US — and other nations — because his question smacks of a lack of education about, or appreciation for, those men and women and trans people who have come before him.

      BrianNYC, no single strategy guarantees a WIN. There are small WINs and bigger ones, local, state and national WINs. If you’re not willing to contribute without a guarantee, then I suggest you sit on your hands, feel sorry for yourself, and let the rest of us do what we can. If inaction is your preference, then stay inactive. I understand your frustration and hope it leads you to think of what issues are important to you —whether it’s politics, education, arts, etc., and whether it’s related to GLTB causes or not— and get involved. You’re obviously bright, and some cause out there could use a guy like you to lend a hand, a brain, and a perspective.
      Think about it, please.

      Jan 15, 2010 at 2:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      Thanks, Lukas.

      I’ve actually thought about it a lot. I never said “guarantee,” I asked HOW do we WIN? What is the strategy for winning?

      Like many others I am already involved locally and I used to give money to HRC. I was excited when Obama was elected – I worked hard for that, too. But, here we are. We can’t pass laws, we lose popular votes and nobody seems to have ANY idea how and when we can achieve our full equality.

      I’m not complaining about anyone or anything, but I am suggesting there must be something we are missing. I want to work on something that will lead to our victory. Somehow we need to get the majority of America on our side. If we do, it’s game over.

      Jan 15, 2010 at 10:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JeffreyRO5
      JeffreyRO5

      Nice black eye to the homophobes! Thanks Mr. Tam. I love how these idiots inadvertently help the good guys with their stupid behavior. “I want to hate people and revoke their rights but I don’t want anyone to think badly of me for it!” What a coward. Cowards like Tam don’t mind gay soldiers dying in wars to protect their freedoms but they’re too cowardly themselves to stand their ground in public when things start heating up.

      Jan 17, 2010 at 12:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      Most young people (Gen Y) aren’t participating because they’re lazy and lack principle/spine/backbone. Everything they have, they’ve been given by someone else. They view conflict with those who threaten them as “bad,” and want an easy “win” where it’s kumbya after someone else does the heavy lifting.

      It’s the Gen Xers who got marriage on the map in the first place, and it’s going to be the Gen Xers who will win the fight (for the most part) while the lazy Gen Yers whine about how it’s not easy enough for them and how there’s too much “fighting” involved.

      Oh well, this Xer is ready to do what’s necessary.

      Jan 18, 2010 at 1:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      I am already involved locally and I used to give money to HRC. I was excited when Obama was elected

      And you’re critiquing the effectiveness of others in the LGBT rights struggle, when you supported a do-nothing money pit organization and enthusiastically campaigned for a political homophobe?

      For real?

      Jan 18, 2010 at 1:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      @Brian Miller:

      Sorry, but MOST young people are not participating because the LGBT Movement is ineffective and stuck in the past. We’re not lazy. But, we’re smart enough to know you don’t use leftover tools from the 50s and 60s.

      Welcome to 2010 Mr. Miller. The world has changed, you should, too. Calling people names (as you have done with me) is your only strategy. Give it up, already. We’re smarter than just “complaining and accusing.”

      Jan 18, 2010 at 4:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      @Brian Miller: Now, why don’t YOU tell us how to WIN. Please.

      Jan 18, 2010 at 4:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bradinthemiddle
      Bradinthemiddle

      @BrianNYC – It’s not Brian Miller’s job to tell you how to win. We’re already winning. To claim that the last 50 years of fighting have not worked is completely disingenuous at best. If that’s what you think, you’ve CLEARLY not been paying attention.

      “1. We’ve never won a public vote on an LGBT issue.”
      UMMMM – Washington just voted to give LGBT couples the Everything but Marriage law. But I’m assuming you’re talking strictly about marriage, because that’s the only thing we’ve never won by public vote. And yet, every time marriage goes up for a vote – we’re closer and closer to winning. California didn’t pass Prop 8 by a landslide – but a mere few percents. To say that this does not show progress – is, plainly, disingenuous. If you can’t see that as progress, you’re an idiot.

      “2. We’ve never passed an LGBT Law in the US Congress.”
      Have you heard of the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act (HCPA)? AND WE’RE CLOSER THAN EVER TO PASSING ENDA. EVERY YEAR WE HAVE SEEN GAINS. Again, if you can’t see this as progress, as evidence of what is working, you must be blind.

      “3. We’ve spent 50 years and $2-3 billion dollars.

      4. We’ve protested, marched, yelled and screamed for 50 years.”

      For 3 & 4, see my 1 & 2 – PLUS, poll after poll has shown an increase in the acceptance of the lgbt community. We also continue to win fights in the courts granting us more rights every time.

      “5. The majority of Americans believe we are “morally wrong.”
      These people are ruled by their religion and are NOT BEING LOGICAL. You seem to think that if we just talk to them in the right way or go at this with a different angle they will just turn over and give us our rights. It’s not going to happen. People’s minds are changed by us being visible (you know, the marching, protesting, coming out to our families, etc.).

      You want “smart” fighting? What makes you think that the avenues we’re taking aren’t smart? And don’t tell me because it’s not working. I’ve CLEARLY shown you how you’re wrong. The groups that have fought for our rights in the past have been filled with smart people and your comments reflect a true lack of understanding of the LGBT movement. It also demonstrates a unsettling disrespect for those that fought to give you the rights you enjoy today.

      Are you some sort of socio-political genius? If so, I’m still waiting to hear what this smart idea is that is going to magically grant us all of our rights.

      There is no one thing that will make us win and there is no one person that can just give us our rights. It is going to take a collaborative effort from every angle we have. It is going to take us all fighting for our rights… except you. You – please stay home and out of the way of everyone else.

      Jan 19, 2010 at 4:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NYC
      Brian NYC

      @Bradinthemiddle: You don’t have to make stuff up Brad.

      1. If we’re winning – WHEN will we WIN?

      2. We didn’t pass the Hate Crimes Bill – we held the defense spending hostage.

      3. Public perception about LGBT people has changed because old people with old ideas have died, not because of anything WE did. (For reference racism is dying, too.) Credit TIME PASSING, not us.

      4. Marching and protesting hasn’t changed anyone’s mind. If you think it has, please provide some EVIDENCE.

      5. 90% of the LGBT movement has been about politics. That hasn’t produced anything yet. If you think we are going to WIN politically, please share. Please tell me WHEN.

      Your response is EXACTLY what is WRONG with our movement. It’s all based on old ideas and the goal is “one of these days.” Well, for 90% of us, that’s just not good enough. So, you and the rest of the 10% that is actively involved in silly marches or political ass-kissing are on your own – UNTIL we are smart enough to figure out how to WIN.

      We won;t win until we figure out HOW to WIN. Get it?

      Jan 21, 2010 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Philip Chandler
      Philip Chandler

      It is an established legal principle that a bare desire to inflict harm on a politically unpopular group can never constitute a legitimate state interest for the purposes of judicial review (United States Dept. of Agriculture v. Moreno, 413 U.S. 528 (1973), Romer v. Evans, 517 U.S. 620 (1996)).

      The defendants in this suit are scrambling in a desperate effort to distance themselves from their own campaign material, because so much of this material (urging voters to enact Proposition 8) was inflammatory and cruel beyond belief. Hak-Shing William Tam asked to be removed as a defendant, citing concerns that his personal safety would be jeopardized by the publication of his efforts. In fact, when one reviews the campaign material circulated by Tam at his church, the real reason for his being dropped from the suit becomes clear; Tam would have been forced to defend the following assertion, contained in a letter that he distributed to parishioners: “One by one, other states would fall into Satan’s hands. Every child, when growing up, would fantasize marrying someone of the same sex. More children would become homosexuals.”

      If that disgusting smear does not constitute evidence of “animus”, I don’t know what does.

      So Tam’s car has been vandalized? Does Tam have any idea of the number of times that vehicles belonging to gay persons have been vandalized (many gay persons refuse to display the rainbow decal on their bumpers, not because they are ashamed of being gay, but because they don’t want to mark their car as a potential target)? I know several gay men who have found words such as “Faggot!” smeared in lipstick across their paintwork. So Tam is afraid of being recognized on the streets? Does Tam have any idea of the number of times gay couples have been harassed and beaten up merely for holding hands on those streets, or visibly sharing affection on those streets? So Tam has received death threats on YouTube? As an activist for equal rights for gay persons, I have received abusive telephone calls, including calls in which the caller threatened to take my life!

      But the best part of Tam’s reasoning is this: “I do not like the exposure of my history to people who are agnostic to me. In short, I do not like the burden of discovery and the privacy invasion associated with being a Defendant-Intervenor. [... ] I am tired and I want peace. I want peace to carry on my ministry and I don’t want to be indefinitely tied down with this case.”

      Tam wants peace, because he has found that the process of defending his actions (promoting Proposition 8) is exhausting and time-consuming.

      Oh poor, poor man!

      PHILIP CHANDLER

      Jan 25, 2010 at 1:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paul
      Paul

      Tam is a dumb gook who should take his chink ass back to China where it belongs. Just because his homeland of China hates gays and is a communist shit hole, doesn’t mean that’s how we do it here in the states. He’s probably jealous because of his tiny little chinese penis but again, that’s his problem. God obviously tried to make it harder for them to breed by giving them small penises so he could eliminate the inferior races.

      Feb 7, 2010 at 3:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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