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SHOCK: 2 Israelis Gunned Down at Gay Youth Club In Tel Aviv

Mideast Israel Tel Aviv Shooting

Three gay teens were murdered, and eleven injured, in a gunfire attack at a gay youth club in Tel Aviv tonight. The scene is described as a “bloodbath.” MORE: “Israeli police say a gunman entered a youth club for gay teens in central Tel Aviv on Saturday night and sprayed the interior with automatic rifle fire, killing three people and injuring 11. Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said it was ‘most likely a criminal attack and not a terror attack.’ Tel Aviv has been a target for Palestinian militants in the past. He said the gunman burst into the basement of the Tel Aviv Gay and Lesbian Association and opened fire on a support group for gay teenagers. Police are searching the area for the gunman, who fled the scene, he said. Roadblocks were set up. Rescue services said six of the wounded were badly hurt.”

All gay bars in Tel Aviv have been closed.

telavivdemo1

VIGIL HELD: “Thousands of LGBT Israelis have held an impromptu march through the streets of Tel Aviv after a masked gun man opened fire at a centre for gay teenagers, killing three late last night. … Israeli media report that the incident took place during a meeting for LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered) teenagers. Many of the teenagers meeting at the venue were not yet out to their families. Protestors held home made banners, rainbow flags and just simply marched with their friends in an act of defiance against the gun man. Others lit candles in honour of the three teenagers who are now known to have died. sraeli media report that a masked gun man dressed head to toe in black entered the venue, underneath Cafe Noir in Tel Aviv, 28 Nachmani Street at the junction with Ahad Ha’am Street. He shot at least 14 people, spraying the interior of the club with automatic rifle fire and reportedly attempted to enter another venue. Media report that the venue was the scene of a ‘blood bath.’”

MORE DETAILS: “Eyal Amit of the gay organisation holding the event told Israeli website Ynet: ‘For 15 years this place has served as a club belonging to the union for private rights. Today a teen meeting was taking place. At some point someone walked in and began firing left and right. The shooter escaped and we are searching for the suspect. We have no specific description of the suspect or the circumstances.’ Eye witness Yaniv Weisman told Israel’s Channel 10: ‘This was a hate crime, a premeditated attack.’”

(Item updated to reflect latest information about the number of murder victims.)

By:           editor editor
On:           Aug 1, 2009
Tagged: , ,

  • 182 Comments
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      All three abrahamic religions – the christers, islamists and judaists are equally guilty of promoting hatred and violence against GLBT folks.

      Fifteen new victims of religion and hate.

      Three new deaths.

      RIP brothers and sisters.

      Vengeance is ours.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 12:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Bill Perdue:

      Just finished reading about this on Yahoo, Bill.

      This is an example of the “special rights and protections” YCHTT and DuttyBarb are always alluding to. No doubt, you saw her thinly veiled threat to the LGBT community on “The 100,000 Signatures Threatening Maine’s Marriage Equality (Post No. 127) that InExile and I both reported her for and asked that she be banned from this site.

      Hardly a day goes by anymore that we do not hear of a member of the LGBT community being murdered.

      It’s becoming an epidemic and will only increase now that the religious right thinks that it has gained the upper hand with the passing of Yesonprop8 in California.

      It’s going to happen all over again in Maine and by that time, they will be so drunk with power that I hate to think of the fallout.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 12:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @schlukitz: Vengeance is ours, schlukitz.

      GLBT children are our children. We have to develop means to guard them, allow them to grow and make their murderers pay. Their murderers are not just the thugs; they’re also the priests, rabbis and mullahs who preach hatred and violence. Those swine are co-conspirators, accessories and accomplices to murder.

      Whatever sentence the murderers get is the sentence they should get. Advocating violence and hatred is not protected speech.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 12:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @Bill Perdue:

      That crime is disgusting but anyone who spins the news to attack Jews is just as disgusting.

      Israel has gay pride for crying out loud.

      Jewish people voted No On Prop 8 as a Majority.

      I have read MANY Jewish articles where they defend gay rights.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @SM: I didn’t attack Jews or anyone else. No one knows who the killer was or anything about him (or her) or the politics or religious beliefs involved.

      I criticized religion, which at it’s best is simply madness and at it’s worst is murderous.

      You and tankie make a fine couple. Anyone who disagrees with either of you is an anti-Semite. You’re putrid, sow. Now try to remember not to bother the humans. We’re busy.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TikiHead
      TikiHead

      @Bill Perdue: I would point out sows are edible, at least to us Goyim.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @Bill Perdue:

      The way some of you people go around painting everyone with such a broad brush makes me ill.

      I’m a Christian.

      SCREW YOU.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @TikiHead: Now you’ve gone and done it.

      I got a visual of what you said and threw up all over my brand new keyboard.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TikiHead
      TikiHead

      @SM: No grouping is monolithic. The Hasidic/Ultra Orthodox faction in Israel is vocally antigay, and members of their religious sect have violently attacked gays and lesbians.

      So, shut up and let the grown-ups converse.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Bill Perdue:

      Getreal calls you a racist and now SM calls you an anti-Semite.

      Both are Christians.

      ‘Nuff said!

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      It’s interesting that in the wake of 3 people being murdered the most important thing to the religious is to point out it was not them. The narcissism is amazing. Not unexpected, but amazing give people who claim to know a higher being.

      As for the tragedy, I don’t get humans. I never will. Why would anyone do this. Even if you hate us gays, I don’t get it. Why would you murdered people over it?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ...
      ...

      ‘most likely a criminal attack and not a terror attack.’
      Guess what this means. I bet you know.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      This is tragedy. I hope whoever’s responsible is brought to justice. I’m sure whoever was responsible believed they were doing god’s work. Religion kills–and I hope the state has the good sense to kill the people responsible. The only way you can deal with a religious fundamentalist who is willing to do something like this is with a gun.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @SM:

      You are a christian, and you are complicit. Chew on that. Responsibility doesn’t begin and end with proximity. You feed the meme.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @The Gay Numbers:

      Welcome to the world. Have you ever seen a woman being stoned to death in Iran? Or a group of gays being executed in the middle east? Viewing those things pulls the curtain on humanity. You don’t have to get it to condemn it.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • petted
      petted

      The perpetrator is vile and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Given the unexpectedness of the attack I’m afraid that its a fair possibility that the perpetrator will attempt more attacks. This person needs to be found and dealt with quickly.

      I’m reminded of an article on the state of the culture wars – if you haven’t seen it its food for thought
      http://www.365gay.com/opinion/besen-setting-the-stage-for-tragedy/

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @TANK:

      TANK,

      I’ve been the target of HATE defending your rights in places you all won’t show up at. I’ve EARNED the right to my opinion.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @SM:

      You shut the fuck up. You’ve never defend a single right I have, or the potential rights I do have. You’re a useless human being, and you’re homophobic.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      The very existence of the responsible party is a threat to civil society. As such, he needs to be exterminated.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @TANK:

      …..and you are probably drunk and still spending 24 hours a day hiding here.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @SM:

      As do you, bitch. NOw stop hiding behind your so-called activism while praising jesus, you sick sow.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @TANK:

      Ohhh goodie…TANK is drunk again and going to show the world he can type hate speech on the internet.

      1..2..3…go…

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @SM:

      Do you really think it’s appropriate to claim victim status here because of your religious beliefs? What planet are you from? You’re disgusting. Show the victims the respect they deserve and kindly shut the fuck up.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      SM confirms that it’s a christer sow by attacking gay men while we reel in shock and horror at the events in Tel Aviv.

      We should ignore this sow.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @The Gay Numbers:

      Because murder, not love, is what is in their hearts.

      It’s what has been drummed into their numb skulls by religion.

      They are nothing but Christorobots on a mission.

      Kill, crush and destroy.

      You know the old battle hymn….

      Onward Christian soldiers

      marching as to war.

      With the cross of Jesus,

      going on before.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @petted:

      Thank you for the 365 link, Petted. Bessen said:

      Are anti-gay leaders egging on unstable followers to attack gay people or provoking gays to defend themselves so they can manufacture martyrdom and justify retaliation?

      Isn’t that precisely what SM, DuttyBarb and youcanttakethetruth are doing?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      I think they are saying it was a Jewish extremist group that may have been behind it. And Yes, I know what murder is and why it happens. I will never accept it. I will never try to understand it.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • petted
      petted

      @Bill Perdue: You know the odd thing is I thought SM had previously objected to being referred to as a christian – shrug.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @SM:

      You have earned shit, bitch.

      Time for you to take a fucking hike. You are NOT welcome here.

      We’ve heard just about as much crap from you as we need to hear.

      Do we need to get your address and report you to your Internet Service Provider to put you out of business?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @schlukitz:

      IT hangs herself. No need.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @schlukitz:

      No…You take a hike. The next time LGBT rights are on the ballet take a HIKE to the OC because we almost won several places and the areas 2 out of the 3 areas I rallied voted No On Prop 8 despite the uphill battle.

      Grow the hell up!

      http://projects.latimes.com/elections/orange-county-prop-8-results-by-city/

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @schlukitz:

      LMAO at a MAN who has called a woman a “cunt” over and over threatening to report her IP.

      try it woman bashing bigot.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      A lot of unnecessary, immature, hate-filled comments in here.

      So sad to hear these young lives have been lost needlessly to some crazed gunman.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @:

      Yep. The killer has not even been caught yet, but his defense is already being planned by the diminishing of his crime.

      Criminal act, my ass. If this is not an act designed to instill terror amidst the Israeli gay community, I don’t know what the hell is.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @schlukitz: Odd how thier views seem to conincide with the view that gay men are broken, bad and evil in every concievable way. It’s almost papal in it’s compuslion to hate.

      @petted: I think what that it’s goal is disruption, discord and dissension and that nothing else matters to it.

      This is a time for mourning and a call to action. SM sullies it with it’s very presence.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Did I mention that these cultists and disruptors think we’re immature too.

      This ones a rodent.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • drresol
      drresol

      What breaks my heart is some gay kid is reading this story, and is all the more terrified. I remember having a similar experience at 17 when the Matthew Sheppard murder happened. It IS a hate crime…it strikes fear into an entire subset of the population.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 3:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • petted
      petted

      THe Advocate had a quote from a member of the staff at the center saying that he/she didn’t think it was targeted at the community because the centre is in a residential building and hard to locate unless you know where it is. Not sure I buy that at least one of the accounts I read indicated that an automatic weapon was used but it’ll probably be a while before we get more reliable reports.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 3:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • drresol
      drresol

      @petted:

      I don’t mean to be snarky, but…I’m from Knoxville, TN, where the TVUUC shooting happened. For the first few days everyone was back-pedaling about it, not wanting to suggest that it might be a hate-related incident even though everyone had very strong suspicions it was. Sure enough, a letter found (from the gunman) specifically stated his motivation as being hatred towards “liberals”. Gays in particular.

      There is always a chance this was just some lunatic who randomly targeted a place frequented by gays by sheer accident, but it’s sort of unlikely.

      …he/she didn’t think it was targeted at the community because the centre is in a residential building and hard to locate unless you know where it is.

      SOMEONE knew where it was.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 3:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • petted
      petted

      @drresol: Dude I did say I doubted that it was coincidence granted I did so in passing, though I didn’t think it was necessary to belabor that point. I only mentioned the Advocate quote because its among the little information available. Still I’d like to get a clear answer on whether or not it was an automatic weapon used as an automatic weapon suggests a heightened level of antagonism which would suggest that subsequent attacks are highly probable and likely to be soon further the use of an automatic weapon combined with the location targeted would suggest this person will kill indiscriminately where as nonautomatic might indicate that there were specific targets though given the number injured an automatic seems far more likely.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • petted
      petted

      Well the BBC is saying it was a handgun – odd though BBC also has intel saying the gunmen was wearing a helmet first I’ve heard of that.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Post no. 42 by DuttyBarb is clearly outrageous and unacceptable abuse. It’s over the top.

      My question is, why is Queerty allowing her abuse to continue???

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @schlukitz:

      You are asking this question?

      You call women “cunts”.

      Stop abusing women.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • duttybarb
      duttybarb

      @ schlukitz….it looks as if you are having a problem with me…

      Aug 2, 2009 at 5:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DeAnimator
      DeAnimator

      @SM: You’re my fave.

      Also, this violence is disgusting. If they had thrown condiments, fine. But shooting them? Just disgusting to see the depths to which humanity drags itself.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 5:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DeAnimator
      DeAnimator

      @DeAnimator: Whoops, I meant @schlukitz:

      Aug 2, 2009 at 5:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @duttybarb:

      He’s a angry person.

      I would never give the Religious Right or anyone else in this country that kind of power over me.

      DUTTYBARB should be able to walk into a voting booth and vote for LGBT equality and Schlukitz should be able to stand up for DUTTYBARBs freedom of speech. Its what the United States is about. The country you all were lucky enough to be born in.

      Congrats we are becoming Iran.

      what a fucking joke.

      Its the Divided States of America. All War all the time. No one stands up for anyone else. No one respects what this country is about. idiots. all of you.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 5:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TADPOLICUS WEX
      TADPOLICUS WEX

      @duttybarb: Duttybarb’s mom looks just like Peppermint Patty, thats why I call her sir when I’m fucking her!

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Helga von ornstein
      Helga von ornstein

      @TikiHead: You hit the nail on the head with that one. There is a movie that comes on LOGO at least once a month titled “Trembling before God”. It shows more or less that yes, for every jew that supports gay equality there are 3 that do not.

      Jews are no different than the rest of the worlds population when it comes to gays. I even laugh each time I see a Hasidic jew in NY clearly cruising (but saying nothing) guys on the subway. I really feel sorry for most of them who have to live that way.

      Please reread my post again before any of you turn it into an anti-semitic post and demand I be banned. It is not. It is the truth.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      1) the announcement that it was not a terrorist attack but a crime would have resonance in a country where terrorist attacks are common. I don’t think the police were minimizing the act, just specifying it.

      2) Until this person is caught, there’s no proof necessarily it was a religious nut.

      3) That said, Israel, and Tel Aviv in particular, is generally very good about gay rights in a region not exactly known for them. That said, there are certainly a lot of hateful ultra-religious people there, as there are everywhere, unfortunately.

      4) This should be a wake-up call — as if another one is needed — to fight religious crazies.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 11:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      should have added: not sure a Jewish religious nut would carry and fire a pistol on the Sabbath. But who knows until he’s (seems it was a “he,” unless it was a resourceful woman dressed up as a man) is caught.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 11:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jj
      jj

      Does SM have to make *every* story all about HER?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 11:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AlwaysGay
      AlwaysGay

      This was a terrorist attack. Religious adherents don’t have sole claim to being victims of terrorism.

      Stay strong Israeli gay people! RIP to those that died.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 11:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John from  England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
      John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)

      @hardmannyc:

      Lol. Please..

      Religous extremists have to be THE most hypocritical people on earth!

      Aug 2, 2009 at 11:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John from  England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
      John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)

      @Helga von ornstein:

      What do you mean Jews are just like every other human in this world?? Pres tell, you don’t mean to say that…gulp…Jews are humans!

      I thought being Jewish was completely different to being a human being?

      Well there you go.

      We apprently can have crazy Jews who could be homophobes and may want to kill.

      Hmm, maybe these homophobic Jews have been indoctrinated by Muslims to make em hate da gayz??!

      R.I.P to the teens.

      Shooter, hope everything now makes sense in your fair and open minded world.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 11:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Phoenix (Armed And Fabulous, Bitches!)
      Phoenix (Armed And Fabulous, Bitches!)

      Orthodox Jews were the ones who attacked LGBTQ at the Jerusalem pride parade.

      http://blogs.reuters.com/axismundi/2009/06/25/the-many-sides-of-jerusalems-gay-pride-parade/

      Rabbis don’t specifically say “Kill the fags.” but they do wink, wink/ nudge, nudge say “Well, I don’t think you should kill the fags, but if Yahweh wills it…..”

      p.s. It wasn’t done at the Sabbath. It was done at 3 am. Not that that means anything. I’m sure the killer sees him/herself as the instrument/hand of God’s will. Really, that’s how religious nuts think. example: Scott Roeder and Operation Rescue.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 12:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      It is somewhat bizare to read the attempts to place Judiasm above the fray of the rest of humanity and what it does. It would more credible to say the religion like all humanity has it share of nuts to than the claim, as some have attempted to do here, that it is somehow not likely that this person could have been a Jewish zealot. We know they exist despite your protestation.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 12:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      Homosexuals will not have peace until we

      PUT EQUALITY BEFORE RELIGION.

      It is amazing that some homosexuals put their beliefs in “unprovable” folklore INSTEAD OF “provable” hate and discrimination CAUSED BY RELIGION.

      Religion has defined gays as wrong and deviant. We need to redefine gays and if we put religion out of business in the process – everyone wins.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 12:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      @Helga von ornstein:

      you MUST be kidding.

      Jews are OVERWHELMINGLY in support of gays.

      ultra-religious Jews constitute a minority of the Jewish community.

      you should get your facts right.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Phoenix (Armed And Fabulous, Bitches!)
      Phoenix (Armed And Fabulous, Bitches!)

      MK Shlomo Benizri of the Shas Party who frequently incited gay hate is of course now saying “Ooo, what a tragedy. I never said kill them…but this never would have happened if they hadn’t sinned.” Ditto Nissim Ze’ev, also of the Shas party. Ditto for home grown Jewish Bigot Dr. Michael Brown.

      @ Jared, No they don’t. Maybe in Tel Aviv but not the rest of Israel or even in this country. Just as Christian and Muslim extremist bigots have taken over those religions, fundamental and conservative Judaism has taken over Israel. The Reform movement is on the wain.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Jared: Again i find people like you amusing. So your thesis “Judiasm is about being homophobic just like everyone else is.” Please- it’s an Abrahamic religion just like the other two.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Jared:

      Jews are OVERWHELMINGLY in support of gays.

      Some documentation to support that claim, perhaps?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @DeAnimator:

      Thanks, guy. What can we say of a crazy lady like SM who thinks that the throwing of food at homophobic protesters is more horrendous than the killing of three youths and the injuring of 11 more with a piston?

      Clearly, she is not the sharpest pencil in the box!

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      Re Judiasm, Israel and Homophobia

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3755454,00.html

      “This shooting attack, should it turn out it was indeed directed at the homo-lesbian community, is not a unique event; it’s merely an extreme one, but make no mistake about it, incidents like that take place on Tel Aviv’s streets time and again with no interruption. About two months ago, two guys were chased by a group armed with baseball bats; before that, two youngsters were stabbed outside a gay club. Meanwhile, numerous cases go unreported.”

      As I say, while people here try to say that Israel is above this, the reality is far different than the claims.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Jared: You said: “Jews are OVERWHELMINGLY in support of gays.”

      Really? Then have them change their doctrine. It is STILL very much a part of Jewish “beliefs” that Homosexuals are WRONG, DEVIANT and SINNERS. To be “supportive” of gays is not enough – it doesn’t change anything. If Jews want to be truly “supportive” have them “formally” change their Doctrine to re-define gays as NOT being SINNERS and WRONG.

      It really doesn’t matter if religious types shout it in their Churches or whisper it in their Synagogues – until they OFFICIALLY end the WRONG of Homosexuality, history says convincingly we should not trust them.

      Moderation or “accepting” and “tolerating” homosexuals doesn’t help – there is nothing wrong with us. We became “wrong” as a result of religion and nothing else. We must reject those “beliefs” or we’ll continue to suffer.

      Until we put Equality BEFORE Religion we will continue to be hated and abused.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @duttybarb:

      @ schlukitz….it looks as if you are having a problem with me…

      By jove, I think she’s got it!!

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @hardmannyc: You said: “Until this person is caught, there’s no proof necessarily it was a religious nut.”

      Most “nuts” ARE Religious. They are armed with their “nutty” religious beliefs – one of which is that HOMOSEXUALS ARE WRONG. ALL Religions STILL believe this LIE. It’s not about EXTREMISTS – they ALL continue to beleive and promote that homosexuality is wrong – even Vicki Gene Robinson of the Episcopalians where it’s still in their official beliefs, they just “market” to gays and lesbians, pretending “it’s okay to be gay.”

      Soon, we’ll learn who did this. Historical odds are that it’s a “religious” nut. All religious people are “nuts.” You need to be to believe.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 1:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      More on Israel and Hate Crimes:

      “If the shooting attack at a gay and lesbian youth center in Tel Aviv was carried out with the purpose of harming the gay community, then this event marks a significant escalation in the violence against members of the community in Israel.

      The most shocking incident of violence against the gay and lesbian community in Israel up until this point was the stabbing of several participants in the Jerusalem Gay Pride parade in 2005. The stabbing was carried out by an ultra-Orthodox protester who objected to the parade.

      In June 2005, 30-year-old Yishai Shlisel stabbed three parade goers, lightly wounding them. Shlisel had purchased the knife only moments earlier, and began running down Jerusalem’s King George Street toward the location of the parade. While he ran, he grazed two parade goers and stabbed another. Two police officers at the scene immediately arrested him”

      http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1104620.html

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Phoenix (Armed And Fabulous, Bitches!):

      They were also the ones who treatened blood running in the streets if the parade was allowed to happen.

      And they made that promise good with the stabbings.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M Shane
      M Shane

      According to police reports it was not a terrorist attack, but of a ‘criminal nature’. That does mean that it’s not Palestinians only. Interestingly, because we are gay, we inhabit an area where crimes directed against us are not called ‘political’ which almost seems possible, except for the right wing economic elements, nor are they called ‘racist’, because we come from all racial groups. They are also not ‘sexist’ because we belong to both sexes.

      If I’m right , this should at least be called a “hate crime” which it seems not to here even though it was directed at a group meting for the singular unifying actor of their sexual choices.
      It seems to me, and I think this holds some water, that acts against us as a group, like this, are ‘terrorist’ crimes, because they happen in venues where we are declaring who we are. Whether they are commited by Jews. Christians or Moslems, their purpose is to terrorise, to keep us from announcuing who we are, by people, gay or not , whose affiliations are to be or seem to be breeders.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      @Andrew: @The Gay Numbers: @schlukitz:

      lets see:

      the Jewish demographic is the ONLY (i repeat, ONLY) religious or minority demographic that has a majority that supports gay marriage.

      Jews are overwhelmingly liberal, and support gays.

      The fact that there are anti-gays in Israel is very much comparable to that in the USA.

      Let’s not be hypocrites.

      Whereas Israel is a country specifically based on being the land of a religious group, which explains clearly the large minority of ultrareligious, the USA is not, and even then there is so much religious extremism in this country.

      lets see:

      Matthew Shepard, the TVUUC shooting in Knoxville, TN, the huge amount of unreported gay bashings that occur, even in northern areas such as Philadelphia or Long Island.

      Dont gimme that shit, talking about how Israel is homophobic.

      Let me remind you all that Israel is the ONLY (i repeat ONLY) country in the middle east where being gay is not only not criminal, but where gays are protected by laws, and where gay married couples from other countries are recognised and receive full marriage benefits.

      There is a gay pride parade in Tel Aviv, Israel’s New York, every year without fault, and if there are problems with gay pride parades in Jerusalem, it is because it is a religious city, and is the equivalent of having gay pride in Salt Lake City, which you all know would and has caused similar problems.

      Lets not forget the Westboro Baptist Church: “God Hates Fags”, etc…

      I think I made my point.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 2:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • No Homophobama
      No Homophobama

      Israel is light years ahead of the U.S. No “DADT” you know the antigay law Obamababyjesus is upholding at all cost.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 3:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Jared: Not a single word about the “official beliefs” of Jews. Jews can “welcome” and “tolerate” gays all they want – that’s NOT the point. We don’t need to be tolerated, there’s nothing wrong with us. The POINT is JEWS STILL BELIEVE HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG.

      Jared, show me WHERE in your FAITH that has changed? WHERE does it say HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT WRONG. WHEN did Jews actually CHANGE their beliefs? We need to end the LIE that is still promoted by ALL Religions – including Judaism.

      Until then, your claims are as dishonest a Vicki Gene Robinson’s (Episcopal Bishop)who “loves gays and lesbians” – BUT not enough to change the Christian Doctrine that “homosexuality is an abomination.”

      Aug 2, 2009 at 3:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      Remind me how a gay person can be RELIGIOUS?

      RELIGION is the only thing that makes gay WRONG.

      When will religion REMOVE the LIES about HOMOSEXUALS from their beliefs? ALL religions in the US still make Homosexuality WRONG, Including:

      Episcopalians. United Church of Christ (Cathedral of Hope).
      Methodists. Catholics. Protestants.
      Baptists (especially Baptists). Judaism. Muslims.
      Hindus. Buddhists. Mormons. Jehovah’s Witless.

      and on and on and. I won’t list ALL 34,000 religions. They ALL make homosexuality wrong. They did this to us.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bri
      Bri

      @Andrew: So, what do you think about Soulforce?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bri
      Bri

      @Bri: and other religious gay organizations, I should say.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 3:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Bri: Soulfource advocates “tolerance.” We don’t need to be tolerated, there is nothing wrong with us. Soulforce has fallen into the marketing efforts of some churches to make it “okay” for gays and lesbians” or “open and affirming.” The problem is they didn’t change any of their hateful doctrine. Only that would be progress.

      Soulforce has embraced the “enemy” by pretending that some religions are okay – none of them are, they ALL still make homosexuality WRONG.

      Martin Luther King Jr. explained the plight of African Americans ass they neared equality – he said “somebody told a lie one day, they made everything black evil.” That LIE was in the Bible. Slavery was, too. Women being less than man is in the Bible, too.

      The LIE that prevents gays from reaching Equality is the religious LIE that HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG. We have to end that lie. Gays must put Equality BEFORE Religion or we will still be hated, feared and despised.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 3:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Andrew: Maybe those 34,000 religions are right and you’ve got it wrong?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      Soulforce is run by Christians. They are related to the Metropolitan Community Church (10,000 members in the US).

      It is still the official doctrine of Metropolitan Church that “Homosexuality is Wrong.” Homosexuals will still be going to Hell.

      I am guessing the 10,000 members don’t actually know this. Otherwise, why would they go?

      There are more than 350,000 Chruches in the US. Soulforce, MCC and the other “gay-friendly” churches total 3,400 – less than 1%.

      Being “tolerated” or “accepted” doesn’t help gays and lesbians. Ending the Lies about homosexuals does.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Those 34,000 religions all believe something different, so they can’t “collectively” have it right. They each think “they” are the “right” one. LOTTO has better odds. (In fact, they routinely kill each other over their beliefs. Likely yesterday in Israel.)

      The LIE about Homosexuals began so that sperm wouldn’t be wasted. They needed every drop for “procreation,” leading to more people belonging to that particular “faith.” And, of course, to help kill the non-believers. So, it was a very practical reason that made homosexuality WRONG, but it wasn’t and isn’t TRUE.

      The only thing that’s TRUE is that RELIGION has caused ALL the pain and discrimination for gays and lesbians. Nobody can debate that fact.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Andrew: As Gavin Newsom would say “whether you like it or not” God’s Word tells us that homosexuality is a sin. So it isn’t up to one church or another to change that just to be more “gay friendly”.

      Any Christian, Jewish or Muslim sect that denies homosexuality is a sin or supports homosexual marriage contravenes their respective doctrines.

      So why would gay people go to church? Same reason as every other sinner – to praise God, feel support from fellow believers and try to figure our His plan for their lives.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DeAnimator
      DeAnimator

      @youcanthandlethetruth: FYI, the Bible contains 362 admonishments to heterosexuals and only 6 that can be construed as admonishments towards homosexuals. Also, the Bible needs to be taken in context.

      All those “religious” leaders have generally NOT attained their degree, masters, phd in divinity and many of them are cherry picking from the Old Testament.

      Didn’t Jesus sum up the Old Testament in the golden rule. AND he said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. But hey, why does it matter what some hippy zombie dude said, right? It’s not like he’s the basis of the religion or anything.

      Christians need to follow Christ(hence the name CHRISTIANS) and not a law book that instructs Judaism. You all follow the Old Testament because it is the only place where you can find phrases to back up your ignorant hatred. You should only be following the words of Christ. As he’s the son of God, all other words by others are imperfect and biased.

      P.S Those “doctrines”, whether inspired by the Holy Spirit or whatever, are tainted with human prejudice. Because ALL humans are imperfect. Including- scratch that- especially you. If you want to talk about religion, get your degree, fool.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew (the original Andrew)
      Andrew (the original Andrew)

      #81: YCHTT, just so you know… it’s a different Andrew engaging you. I’ve not broken my original promise to ignore you. And thank you for at least not saying somewhere that the three kids who got gunned down deserved it and it’s God’s wrath or some other b.s. (Or did you say that somewhere?)

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @Andrew (the original Andrew): Not me, this incident is horrific and a tragedy regardless of who the victims were. As I said earlier in #33

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      @Andrew: It’s worth mentioning that the most popular subsect of Judaism in the U.S., Reform, along with Reconstruction, is, aside from the Unitarians, by far the most gay-positive major religious denomination. Reform Jews were the first to authorize a same-sex wedding ritual, among other things.

      So don’t taint the whole religion with the rantings of a few idiots. I don’t think Judaism is any more — or less — batshit crazy about homosexuality than any other one running around spewing its beliefs.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @DeAnimator: Didn’t Jesus sum up the Old Testament in the golden rule. AND he said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. But hey, why does it matter what some hippy zombie dude said, right? It’s not like he’s the basis of the religion or anything.

      __________________________________________________

      You conveniently omitted the last part of that story where Jesus told the prostitute to “go and sin no more”.

      He didn’t say “carry on sinning and we’ll redefine Christianity and marriage to accommodate your sins”.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • InExile
      InExile

      Isn’t it a shame the religious extremists hate us so much they want to keep us from having equal rights and will go as far as killing us? Why do they not live and let live?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      Love this picture.

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivanjurado/3021593720/

      Aug 2, 2009 at 5:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      Just off the IM with my cousins in Tel Aviv… if there is any good news in all of this, it is the outrage that the everyday Joe is feeling about it. They are young 20-something straight women, but they are so upset and outraged over this, and say that there are street vigils happening. Of course, as they both point out, in Israel, tragic stories happen so often, that you get a little calloused. (but not in Tel Aviv, which is a very progressive city).

      Aug 2, 2009 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      And one more thing.. imagine the parents who are finding out that their kid is gay and dead, or very injured on the same day. How could they not have some security or even CCTV?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 5:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • edgyguy1426
      edgyguy1426

      @youcanthandlethetruth: but isn’t that EXACTLY what’s happening in the catholic church for example? Now it’s ok for married couples to have sex for pleasure not just procreation. That’s a perfect example of redefining what’s been a major tenet of Catholicism for well, ever. Limbo, is..in limbo, hey it’s ok to eat meat on fridays. There are so many Old/New Testament rules that have been rewritten/thrown out because our society is different. If the Tel Aviv murders ARE religion based, you can add a little of the blood to your hands, Mr. Truth. As I’ve said before, once you give your religious authority so much power, do you really have to think for yourself anymore? It’s a perfect scapegoat for all the horrors that happen in His name.
      Andrew? he didn’t say it, but I’ll bet was thinking it, especially cuz they were Jews. The Christian authorities don’t believe the jews are bound for any heavenly reward anyway. And so it goes.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 6:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      @Fitz: I’ve often heard that because it’s such a small country when something like this happens people feel aggrieved, as if it were a family member.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 6:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Jared: I can tell you did not bother to read either article, and thus I really do not care what you have to say.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 6:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bryan
      Bryan

      This is so far away geographically that the way I feel isn’t nearly as acute as the feelings the LGBT people in Israel must have, but whenever something like this happens it just makes me want to organize and fight more. What if we spent more time organizing and less arguing on the comment boards?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 6:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      @Andrew:

      Andrew, Andrew.

      Im not religious; I wasn’t defending religion. It is the Jewish culture, the Jewish people, we are talking about, not what is or isn’t in the Bible.

      You fail to see the fact that the average Jew looks past the bullshit and accepts his fellow gay man.

      You fail to acknowledge that while the average Christian abhors gays, the average Jew does not.

      You seem to be so caught up in the fact that the “Holy Book” condemns gays, but the fact of the matter is, only ultra-religious, black uniform and kippa wearing, idiotic Jews (that constitute a minority, in fact) are so virulently homophobic.

      The fact that Israel has been somewhat infected with these ultra-religious people who live off welfare, don’t participate in the army, and cause all these problems, has no bearing on the fact that Israel is the only country in the middle east that protects its gays from attacks and discrimination, instead of hanging them.

      Keep your insistent anti-semitism to yourself, thank you; it has no place here.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 6:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @hardmannyc: You said: “the most popular subsect of Judaism in the U.S., Reform, along with Reconstruction, is, aside from the Unitarians, by far the most gay-positive major religious denomination.”

      When will they officially declare “Homosexuality is NOT WRONG?” When can we expect this? That’s the important part – not whether we can hang out together and then give them some money, but when will the end the idea that homosexuality is wrong? If they won’t end that lie, then they are “still the same.”

      I’m curious do Jews “tolerate” blacks? Or did they change the beliefs about blacks and slavery?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 6:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @Jared: Officially Judaism condemns homosexuality. I guess you are suggesting you have some Jews that just believe part of Judaism. I’m curious – do you eat Cheeseburgers?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 6:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • youcanthandlethetruth
      youcanthandlethetruth

      @edgyguy1426: Where did you read that this bombing was carried out by a Christian who felt he was acting in accordance with scriptures?

      I’m not aware of any scriptural justification for murdering homosexuals, or any other form of sinner. under Jesus’ new covenant.

      Even if the perpetrator was a misguided Christian, tarring all Christians with this act is like saying all homosexuals are pedophiles.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      You do our work for us. You are the brethren of fred phelps and the like, and you discredit yourselves more than anyone could in calling out on your bigotry by just being bigots.

      The scriptural justification for mudering homosexuals is found in leviticus, for one–and murdering your children because they misbehave.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      But c’mon, serial public masturbator, explain how christian beliefs are rational.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Andrew: The fact is I talked to this Jewish guy online who provided me the links that illustrate that there is a problem in Judaism with homosexuality. He lives in Israel, he said, everone sort of knew some event like this was coming. That it has not happen before now is just dumb luck because of the right wing conservative Jewish force at play in the country. He provided the link because he felt that people like Jared, whom I discussed with him, are stinking up the conversation with a load of poo. So, my advice is to ignore Jared. He’s full of shit. He has not idea what he’s talking about. There are yet more links that I can provide that directly contradict his claims here. Here’s yet one more:

      “It is not surprising that such a crime can be committed given the incitement of hatred against the homosexual community,” the president of Tel Aviv’s gay and lesbian community, Mai Pelem, told reporters.

      Pelem was referring to verbal attacks against gays from the religious community.

      In the past, swastikas had been painted at the entrance to the centre in an attempt to stigmatise homosexuals.”

      http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5g2yIZz8DWB646ABhli-463be5DxQ

      Here’s another excerpted at JoeMyGod:

      “I warned in a column last year that Israel is a place which on the one hand has liberal laws, but on the other does not attempt to counter homophobia,” Danny Zak, a journalist and gay rights advocate, told the Jerusalem Post during the demonstration. “A murder was waiting to happen,” Zak added. “The Shas party has the blood of two innocent kids on their hands,” he said. “Shas has blamed gays for earthquakes and diseases. This is incitement, but no one is put on trial for it,” he said. Shas released a statement following the shooting in which it called for the attacker “to be found and tried. Murder is of course against the Torah’s path and every attack is a contravention of the religion of Israel.” Meretz MK Nitzan Horovitz, who is gay, arrived at the scene of the shooting. “There has been non-stop incitement,” he told the Post. “I very much hope this is not the result of comments made by public figures and Knesset members. They need to understand that some people will take action.” Last year, former Shas MK Shlomo Benizri said that homosexual behavior was the cause of earthquakes. ”

      When discussing the Shas party with another apologist like Jared, they made excuse. The reasonw why evil flourishes is that we try to cover it up or make excuses for it. Apaprently, for Jared the most important thing is not to confront homobigotry. It’s to protect his belief that his faith is above the fray. Not even people in Israel fighting the cause of gay equality buys Jared’s arguments.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      And by the way, the fact that Jews would use swastikas against gay Jewish people is really k ind of fucked up on a level that even as someone not of the faith- I can not describe.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Lets clear up a few thing here.

      One – The three Abrahamic cults are equally homohating and equally responsible for violence against us. That includes christers, the islamists and the judaists, who started it all.

      Twonon religious Jews are no more at fault here than the citizens of muslim and christer countries who all suffer from one degree or another of oppression by cultists. The problem is religion and the right wing politics of colonialism, militarism, and imperial conquests that they front for.

      Three – this should put to rest the idea that the zionist state is somehow gay-friendly. It is not. A large part of the population is living the middle ages in terms of their attitudes towards women and GLBT folks. The fact that they ‘allow’ gays and lesbians in the military is simply an extension of their need for cannon fodder in their endless wars of conquest and colonial occupation. When the zionist secret police discover GLBT Palestinians they always blackmail them into becoming agents. Etc.

      Four This level of violence against GLBT folks is new but it has plenty of precedents in a society awash in the blood of Palestinians and their neighbors. Zionist settlers, police, secret police and military forces routinely engage in the wanton murder of Palestinians, especially targeting children, to enforce the bondage of apartheid. They practice ethic cleansing to gain new land.

      Malcolm X, remarking on the violent death of JFK, who began US involvement in Vietnam, ordered the invasion of Cuba (Bay of Pigs) and the CIA to murder Congolese Premier Patrice Lumumba said JKK’s assassination was the ‘chickens coming home to roost’.

      Violence against children (remember that epidemic of mindless school yard killings) rose sharply in the aftermath of Vietnam and we can expect more as a result of Iraq and Afghanistan. The same holds true for zionist society.

      I’m afraid that’s going to be the case with zionist society with it’s bunker mentality suffused with violence against Palestinians. Just as the US oil piracy in South Asia led to an increase violence against LGBT folks there and here by inflaming the right and emboldening the thugs, so it does in the zionist colonial state.

      Our brothers and sisters there are in for hard times.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      @Andrew:

      that cheeseburger comment is highly anti-semitic.

      Yes, I eat cheeseburgers, and so do most Jews.

      You are being really ignorant.

      Again, I am talking about Jewish PEOPLE, as a people, just like Black people or Arabs or anything else.

      The fact that 4,000 years ago, Jewish people were homophobic, or, at least, those who wrote the laws were, is irrelevant now.

      And, what I dont understand, is why you are accusing Jews of being homophobic because of the laws of the religion, which most Jewish people tend to ignore, when every other monotheistic religion is just as homophobic.

      @Andrew:
      @The Gay Numbers:

      The fact is, religious extremists exist everywhere, especially in America, which is officially the second most religious country out of all the West, only after Turkey. (The West includes Israel, in this case).

      And if you want to talk about Shas, and your belief that Israel is run by the right, then you are basing this on poor knowledge of Israeli political organisation.

      The fact of the matter is, Tzipi Livni won the popular vote, but since Netanyahu is a coward and made coalitions with Shas, he won the PM office. Kinda reminds you of another election where the winner of the popular vote didn’t get into office 9 years ago, doesn’t it?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Jared:

      How does the fact that every other religion being just as homophobic excuse the homophobia in the jewish faith? Are you saying that I can’t criticize islam without criticizing judaism and christianity, too? That seems patently stupid.

      The laws of a religion license members of that religion to act in a way that is inconsistent with universal human dignity, and incite violence against minority groups for no other reason than that they are minorities.

      Religious moderates will always be and have always been viewed by extremists who claim the SAME faith as failed fundamentalists. There is no getting around this fact. They encourage an atmosphere where extreme ignorance and delusion is rewarded by clinging to the same irrational, outmoded fictions, and treating them like facts about the universe. They reduce human rights to scriptural disagreement (trivializing the very notion of personhood and the dignity of humankind in so doing), without the hope of any resolution.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      A problem for religious people and their apologists is that they don’t view human rights as essential. They wish to treat it as mere opinion of a kind that can expressed “you have your way, I have mine.” Human rights are nonnegotiable. This is a real problem for the religious who don’t care about people–and it would seem their apologists don’t care about them, either.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Jared: I do not give a shit about who runs Israel. I do not give a fuck about Israel. I care about gay equality, wherever the issue arises. Thus, your need to defend what are bad societal trends, and my need to call you on your baggage. It’s really sad took multiple articles for you to even admit there is a problem. This is why homobigotry continues.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      This is more complicated than we can really get into here, but it is worth doing a little online reading about Israel’s politics right now… The Right wing-nuts took over, to an even bigger degree than Bush’s administration. For crying out loud, now they can even declare who is a Jew and who isn’t! And the right of return is almost a thing of the past.. so it’s worth saying all this so that we understand that the government stokes hate for non-traditional things, like a GLBT social club. BTW: in Tel Aviv they think that they are progressive because they have a few gay clubs and a sauna… but what really makes the place progressive is that a gay couple can adopt each other, ensuring better inheritance stuff.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 7:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ElNYC
      ElNYC

      @ All

      I read most of the thread and I can feel the vibes that this very sad incident has on you all, yes, I also see this as a terrorist act hence it is doing exactly that: promote terror amongst the victims and their effiliates. I am an Israeli living in NYC for the last 2 years and so I was very interested to read your comments. I few discussions here hold speculations on the Israeli reality so let me describe the Israeli reality that I lived and hope it will help to clarify a few things for you. I am a straight Israeli guys (so sorry in advance for commenting if you see this as an offence…) who leaved 10 years of my life in Tel Aviv, my opinion is that Tel Aviv is as “Gay Friendly” as NYC is. Some of my friends and friends of my friends were lesbians and gays and that was just cool. We had a good time…:-) I accepted them as they are. I was brought up in a secular family and I can estimate that around 40% of the Israelis are brought up in a similar way. Another 35% is probably brought up in houses that are not religious but has some affiliation with tradition (some of them keep kosher or celebrate the holidays with some religious affinity but they don’t consider themselves religious nor they participate in any religious acts). I estimate that the other 25% are either religious or Ultra religious. My observation so far is that Israel is pretty similar to the US demographic in the aspect of liberalism vs. conservatism; you have good amounts of Ultra liberal and Ultra religious people. In the same way you will not want to be caught gay (is that a bad phrasing?) in some places in the US you certainly would not want to be caught gay in some places in Israel (please go to see Bruno movie for reference on that point). BUT the big difference is the geographic difference, Israel is smaller than New Jersey so all that craziness is condense :-) and the temperature can sometime go pretty high.

      @ Bill Perdue; post 103,

      Reading your post I have the impression you have never been in Israel, it is not that some of your observations are not true
      – I mean, I agree that the occupation of the Palestinians is bad for the Israeli Society, but lets not get carry away with going deliberately and killing children – I served in the Israeli Army for a long time and unfortunately for me, I have participated in this occupation, however, did not came up to killing anyone nor did I heard any command to kill someone or any thing of that sort (not talking about anti terrorist acts here, those happened a lot of times). I guess we did what other soldiers in every hostile land do while policing, you tried to survive the day without hurting anyone and without getting hurt. So not sure where you got all that info, but if you want I can verify or dismiss almost any fact you will throw at me on the subject. Feel free to do so although this is probably not the main subject of this thread.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Fitz:

      I wouldn’t want to live there. Ick.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @ElNYC: You should know that not everyone here is saying everyone who is Jewish is a bigot or that even Israel is. The only point that at least I am trying to make is that clearly from reading the articles and listening to my friends, that like here, there is a problem with homobigotry in Israel that needs to be addressed so that something like the terrorist attack on the gay social club does not happen again.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ElNYC
      ElNYC

      @The Gay Numbers:
      Agree!

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @ElNYC: Palestinians are not hostile foreigners, they live there. It’s their country and nobody else’s. The hostile foreigners are the occupiers. I want to congratulate you on not killing any Palestinians and surviving army life. It’s what the majority of US troops in Vietnam did and those in Iraq are trying to do, which is why they’ve been pulled from combat.

      You’re completely right about my never having been to occupied Palestine. In a similar vein I’ve never been to English occupied northern Ireland. But I know that the IDF and the Parachute Regiment of the English Army are both guilty of wantonly killing civilians as well as insurgents. And yes, it happens in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

      If we agree that the violence against Palestinians led to violence against GLBT folks we’re almost there. Violence against children – GLBT or Palestininan – is the point of this story. As for the rest of it the deliberate targeting of children and adult civilians in a policy of ethic cleansing is well documented.

      http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein01282009.html

      Other people have read this and similar articles and come to the same conclusions I did. You can dispute it all you want but the facts are pretty well known.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Here’s an account of the refuseniks who decline to be a part of the IDFs murderous attacks on children and other civilians.

      http://livefromoccupiedpalestine.blogspot.com/2009/02/israeli-teenage-refuseniks-speak-to.html

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      that cheeseburger comment is highly anti-semitic.

      Oh brother.

      I’m a Jew, and that faux-outrage has ME rolling my eyes.

      Yes, homophobia is rampant in Judaism, particularly outside of enlightened places like New York City.

      Traditional, orthodox practising Jews regard homosexuality as a ritual abomination, and you’ll find just as many religious homophobes in the world’s Jewish communities as you will in the world’s Christian and Islamic (and other) communities as a proportion of the total population.

      The reality is that religion, as a human-invented social construct, seeks to leverage tribalism by designating small, easily-targeted groups as the “others.” The religious “leader” then is able to rally his “flock” against the “others” to “protect society.”

      That’s been the entire course of human history.

      The gay separatist movement of the 20th century recognized this dynamic and delivered an extreme solution — the creation of “gay spaces” that are safe havens for gay people, ala Israel post-Holocaust. Whether or not it would be do-able is a separate discussion that I am not really addressing.

      But suffice to say if a “gay country” or “gay safe space” did emerge in the world as a sovereign entity, it would be blamed at least as often as “Zionists” for the world’s ills. The financial meltdown, economic problems, etc. would all be laid at the feet of the tiny gay state, it would have regular terrorist attacks and threats from larger more powerful countries against it, and it would (like Israel) be blamed for the inability of its neighbors to do anything productive.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @InExile:

      Why do they not live and let live?

      Because they fear those who do not look, act and think exactly as they do.

      It’s an illness called insecurity.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      @TANK: I agree. It’s not a place to live unless you feel a compulsion or obligation (at least) to help Israel. All of my younger family that is there wants very much to come here to live. Their society is different though, because right out of high school you do your military time, THEN (maybe) go to college. So by then you are a little older, moving is harder, yada yada. It is, though, and I mean this, a WONDERFUL city to visit. The people are friendly, the guys are HUNKY (and hedonistic), and the food is amazing. If you are a straight boy it is even better, because those young women are WILD.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      Who really give a rat’s ass what your bible says?

      It doesn’t mean squat to those of us who do not believe in it and refuse to screw-up our lives with all that clap-trap.

      Your bible has no power over those of us who caught on very early in life and saw your bible and your religion for the bullshit that it is.

      What are you going to threaten us with next? The rantings and ravings of a Irish Leprechan and a four-leaf clover reading?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      @Bill Perdue:

      you’re an asshole who will find any reason to demean Jews/Israel and be apologetic to Palestinian terrorists, even though it’s the territories that live in the Middle Ages, not Israel.

      @ElNYC:

      Thanks for putting ignorami in their places.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Jared: You’re an apologist for racism and state sponsored terrorism. You’re a pig.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Bill Perdue:

      ANd now you’ve lost the crowd. You fucking batshit lunatic antisemite.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Andrew (the original Andrew):

      No. It was DuttyBarb who laid the blame squarely on we gays for that.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @TANK: No tankie, it’s racists like you and Jared who don’t make sense.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 8:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crimson
      crimson

      @youcanthandlethetruth: Imagine if we had to base all law on religion! Pork/shellfish would be outlawed, women who dared show their faces would be stoned and on occasion throw a virgin into a volcano. Pleasant iddnit?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      @Bill Perdue:

      Bill, take your hate elsewhere, ok?

      Right now you’re making wild uninformed statements of all Israelis being racist when more than half of the Jews in Israel are Arabic, and of state-sponsored terrorism.

      You need to stop.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crimson
      crimson

      *and on occasion we’d have to throw a virgin into a volcano.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @youcanthandlethetruth:

      So why would gay people go to church? Same reason as every other sinner – to praise God, feel support from fellow believers and try to figure our His plan for their lives.

      Try telling it like it really is.

      Edited Version: So why would gay people go to church? Same reason as every other sinner – to praise God, feel superior to non-believers and try to figure out his (God’s) plan for the lives (and suffering) of other people.

      Regular puppeteers, you Christers. You’re thoroughly disgusting.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ElNYC
      ElNYC

      @Jared:
      @TANK:

      Hey, why go to the extrems? lets come down, people god killed yesterday and whoever it was that killed them was wrong and it does not matter if you are gay or not all of us should try to find some common ground (besides the fact that everyone calls everyone else ingnorants and assholes in this thread!!!). This killing is a hight of negative energy so increasing those is not the best option. How about a group hug? -:)

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ElNYC
      ElNYC

      @Jared:
      My last post was for you as well

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @ElNYC:

      Do you speak English as poorly as you write it?

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Jared: Quit lying. This is state sponsored terrrorism in Gaza.

      http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein01282009.html

      If you’re not afraid of the truth read it. Otherwise that you racism and apologies for for state sponsored terrorism some where else. You’re a broken record, in more ways than one.

      This is what you and tankie are defending. This is Gaza this January. [img]http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:2T2rnQpgr1HWkM:http://02varvara.files.wordpress/img

      And that is why this happened:

      [img]undehttp://www.queerty.com/wp/docs/2009/08/fa516d8c-755c-45cf-a427-0ad91c87c231_mn1.jpgfined[/img]

      The two forms of violence are intimately linked.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ElNYC
      ElNYC

      @ Bill Perdue
      Keep missing you, my mistake, my last post was for you as well…

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      You take a militant view and excuse the state sponsored terrorism that the palestinians inflict. No one’s defending how some palestinians are treated (the checkpoints, etc), but don’t act like the palestinians are nonaggressive peacniks. Arafat invited littel girls to blow themselves up in crowded venues for the glory of allah.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @The Gay Numbers: Show me in the formal doctrine of Judaism that HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT WRONG. Not some guy or a website. The official, written position of Judaism is that it is a major sin and WRONG.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Andrew:

      He can’t, because it’s not there. It gets just as bad as those husks of humanity that are gay christians, and try to justify being gay with the bible. They’re walking wounded, and it’s just pathetic.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      @Bill Perdue:

      Why is there always some asshole who feels the need to bring up fallacies like “state sponsored terror” whenever the word “Israel” is even uttered.

      I mean, we could be talking about Olive trees being planted in Israel, and still you would bring it back to demonising Israel.

      Like I said, take your hate ELSEWHERE.

      And if you think Israelis as a whole are racist, you are SO mistaken, and it just proves how foolish you really are.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      When they find out who did the killing- they will find RELIGION. It doesn’t matter if it’s extremists or so-called moderates, it’s ALL the same. “In the name of God” has killed more people than anything else.

      Religion makes homosexuality WRONG. Until we correct that we will not have EQUALITY.

      We are NOT WRONG.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ElNYC
      ElNYC

      @TANK:
      Yes, I guess I speak poor english compare to people that were born with it.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @ElNYC:

      Yeah, that’s right. It sucks, goddamnit. And it’s a chore to read. Also, that group hug thing was hippie in a very bad way.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ElNYC
      ElNYC

      @TANK:
      Sorry, twisted sense of humur, could not resist it.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ElNYC
      ElNYC

      @TANK:
      the “humur” was specially for you.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @ElNYC:

      Yeah, that is funny. It’s funny because I don’t know if that spelling error was intentional or not. Oh, borat…

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Andrew: Andrew- learn to read. Peace.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Jared: I don’t think all colonists are racist, but you’ve proved you are a rancid little racist pig.

      My guess is that you didn’t read that article because it doesn’t fit your racist views. Too bad. But other people will read about state sponsored murder and terrorism.

      http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein01282009.html

      As they read they’ll understand that so many children wouldn’t have died if they hadn’t been targeted and unlike you they won’t smirk.

      ——————————————–
      @TANK: I’m not excusing anything, you pissant racist.

      I’m saying the existence of a US puppet state and European dominated western military colony in Palestine endangers everyone: colonists, Palestinians and GLBT folks.

      That’s not militancy, that the reality of the situation. Zionist murders of civilians leads to the murder of GLBT folks. That’s the reality of the situation.

      The only solution is the creation of a secular, socialist Palestinian state. Colonists in Palestine will have to accept what colonists in South Africa did.

      There the colonists eventually learned to survive rather than confront the ANC. (The South Africans are still working on the socialist part of the equation. They’ll get there.)

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      @Bill Perdue:

      Bill, just shut up.

      You’re just talking smack, and this is not the place for it.

      And your theory that Israel is the threat to the LGBT community instead of the Palestinians is highly erroneous and ignorant.

      You have no knowledge of the situation.

      Please go away.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      It’s way off topic, this stuff about Pro-Palestine and anti-Israel. I am forcing myself to not engage the substance of the argument, and just try to redirect us to thinking about the dead & injured gay youth in Tel Aviv, and what it means to us.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 9:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      @Jared:

      Neither Israel nor Palestine are boons to the gay community, and I wish people would stop dragging up that immaterial conflict every time some issue of the Middle East is discussed.

      It’s like someone bringing up the conflict in Chiapas when discussing Canada’s gay marriage laws.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 10:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Brian Miller: Exactly.

      @Fitz: Also agree with you too.

      It bothers me a great deal that we can never discuss gay rights as a situation across the world that needs to be addressed. Part of the reason why others belittle our history and don’tknow it is that we always place it as second or third on our lists so why shouldn’t they? What do I mean? I mean I talk to so many people who do not realize for example the historical ways in which gays have faced physical harm across the planet, and how that exists today. We have got to start focusing in on the physical violence.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 10:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      @The Gay Numbers: Part of the reason why others belittle our history and don’tknow it is that we always place it as second or third on our lists so why shouldn’t they?

      “We” do it because it’s the politically correct thing to do.

      Ever start talking about the gay men who were tortured and murdered as part of the Holocaust? Don’t do it near a religious-conservative Orthodox Jew or he’ll get “offended” (and TPTB will side with him, not you).

      Don’t dare compare LGBT civil rights to civil rights for black Americans — or even talk about Bayard Rustin — or someone will condemn your white male privilege and scream about how offended they are you dared to insert your own experiences in a discussion about societal trends.

      Don’t talk about gay people’s role in religion or humanism — too much is “uncomfortable.”

      Don’t demand that political figures live up to their commitments to you — you need to “get over yourself.” The latest farm bill, post office bailout, and bank bailout is more important than your piddling rights anyway.

      All of society around the world spends most of its time addressing gay issues as unimportant, embarassing, irrelevant, controversial, and “not something to talk about.” Gay people who have allied with various political parties are forced to subsume their own human dignity and that of their fellow travelers in order to get a chance to touch the brass ring of power, and the result is continued hostility, violence and death.

      What’s the answer? I’m not sure, but I think it involves gay people refusing to accept the “please shut ups” that the world sends our way.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 10:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      AND
      @Jared:Maybe you want to send a few friends of your idol, Mier Kahane, to try to shut me up. Too bad you can’t send him; he was assassinated in that violence prone society you dote on.

      Say, piglet, did you ever get around to reading http://www.counterpunch.org/finkelstein01282009.html by Norman Finkelstein. He’s written five books, including Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict, Beyond Chutzpah and The Holocaust Industry, which have been translated into more than 40 foreign editions. He’s the son of Holocaust survivors and quite a scholar. His article, which everyone else is reading, is an edited part of what he wrote for DemocracyNow.

      And don’t even both trying to dismiss Finkelstein. By now everybody’s figured out your racist agenda. You’ve disqualified yourself from commenting on the origins of the homohating that produced these murders.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 10:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      ^^^ I knew it wouldn’t take you long to get on your soapbox about Middle Eastern politics. You are not only a bore and an ass, but you’re tacky and unfeeling.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 10:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • epluribusunumjk
      epluribusunumjk

      @ All – I can see that this thread has completely derailed into mostly nonsense, so in an effort to make a right out of a wrong, I feel compelled to inject my two cents into the conversation.

      @ ElNYC – I really like your perspective and can tell that you generally care about defending your homeland and the Jewish right to a state. I fully support Israel’s actions across all of its land – including what some deem as being the “occupied territories.” I also commend you for your military service, and any continued service you performed for your country (a great friend of ours and a bastion of peace and stability in a cluster-fucked place) in excess of your mandatory two years.

      @ Bill Perdue – You don’t really ever shut the fuck up, do you? I fail to understand what you want society to look like. Personally, I’m pretty sure that if everyone was sitting around smoking pot all day and singing some ritualistic peace-loving music, you still would be fuckin ants at a picnic. Why you are like this, I have no idea. What do you want from the world? I also haven’t a clue. All I know that is the sooner you figure it out, the sooner you could stop posting about how you want to fuck the Castro brothers and Ahmedinijad and how you hate the U.S., the U.K., the West collectively, and Israel.

      Tell you what Bill. I would be more than happy to help you look for an apartment in Pyongyang, since you love totalitarianism so much. I hear that apts. are going pretty cheap over there these days. If we encounter difficulties, perhaps we can house you in the massively huge, uncompleted hotel that is still awaiting “finishing touches” by the workers in the only remaining workers paradise.

      The U.S. and Israel have their problems, that may be. BUT…I am glad I was granted the opportunity to come out in a tolerant society as opposed to those less tolerant, oft times Islamic ones.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 10:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @epluribusunumjk: Another mindless pro-zionist right winger heard from.

      No facts, no analysis, just apologies for things as they are.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 10:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @hardmannyc: This from the demented jackass who said of Iranians “I say, go bush – nuke the bastards.” and ” Bomb ‘em. Bomb ‘em. They’re beyond redemption at this point. they’re a hateful mass of religious fanatics whose only purpose on this earth is to spread hatred, ignorance and intolerance.”

      What a sorry excuse for a human.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 10:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fitz
      Fitz

      One more try… then even Yolom would give up…..

      Today, some GAY KIDS WERE GUNNED DOWN IN A GLBT YOUTH CENTER.
      Parents of GAY KIDS are now in shock and grief.

      THAT is the issue of the day. This wasn’t about Arab Vs. Jew.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 11:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • commonsense
      commonsense

      @Bill Perdue:

      Mr. Perdue:

      I see you have determined that only the “Palestinians” have a claim to the land, and that the Jews are colonizers. I see you do not support a two-state solution, but the ethnic cleansing of the Jews from their ancestral homeland. In your deranged mind, you are a champion of tolerance and peace, but in fact, you are an apoligist for terrorists and fanatics.

      And, by the way, how is any of your ranting relevant to the tragedy in Tel Aviv. Unfortunately, that tragedy just serves as an excuse for your hateful anti-Israel spewing.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 11:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Brian Miller:

      I hate to say it, but everything you have stated is so.

      I’ve experienced it on a number of occasions myself.

      Aug 2, 2009 at 11:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      @epluribusunumjk: Telling Bill Perdue he’s an ass who makes no sense is like throwing peanuts to the monkeys in a cage — it only encourages them to jack off more. But it’s still fun.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 2:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      @Bill Perdue: Get the hint: we don’t like you. Go back to your cave in Nevada.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 2:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Elisabeth
      Elisabeth

      Bill Perdue is shameless and amoral to use this tragedy as an excuse to hijack these comments and label as “racist” or “zionist” everyone who doesn’t tow hos particular view of the Arab-Israeli conflict.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 3:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      @The Gay Numbers: You said: “It bothers me a great deal that we can never discuss gay rights as a situation across the world that needs to be addressed.”

      START by admitting that RELIGION is the primary source of ALL gay hatred and discrimination. We’re not “supposed to talk about religion” but we must if want Equality. Religious beliefs are killing homosexuals all over the World – from Jamaica to Tel Aviv to Montana.

      Religion defined us as “wrong, sinner, deviant and perverts.” That’s our identity in the World. It is the cause of our suffering. It doesn’t matter if it’s been done by shouting (extremists) or whispering (moderates)- the results are the same. We have been made “wrong.”

      Homosexuals MUST decide to re-brand themselves and REJECT the LIES of RELIGION. We MUST put Equality BEFORE Religion.

      WE ARE NOT WRONG.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 11:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jared
      Jared

      @Elisabeth:
      exactly, i still dont understand why he keeps calling me a racist pig. Oh, so I’m a racist pig because Im not completely and utterly hateful of the one and only Jewish state that exists among 50 Muslim ones?

      @Bill Perdue:
      I love Arabs and Arab culture, how dare you call me a racist?
      You are just an anti-semite who uses Israel to justify his own racism by calling others racist.

      YOU’RE the racist.

      but besides, as Fitz said, this is not the issue here.

      Please just go away, you’re bothering us all.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 11:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      @Andrew: I never disagreed with your claim you fucking moron. You are ranting as if I did. That’s why I suggested that you read my posts rather than continuing to embarass yourself. But being a dumbass you continue. It’s pretty sad. You are so busy arguing that you are not even paying attention to what anyone else besides Andrew is saying. Seek therapy man because whatever you are doing here, it is not about gay rights or religion.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 12:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • edgyguy1426
      edgyguy1426

      ok by best quote ever here so far? “I’m a Christian Screw You”

      Sometimes you just can’t make this stuff up!

      Aug 3, 2009 at 4:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @edgyguy1426:

      I kind of thought being called 100 names including “cunt” by the tolerant people who don’t discrimate was HILAROIUS!

      I was not raised in a Church. I don’t belong to a Church. I don’t give money to a Church. My relationship with JC is between me and him.

      and SCEW YOU.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 4:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @edgyguy1426:

      Regarding SM’s post no. 165….

      We’ve all heard the expression “Give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves.

      In the Christers cases, I think a more appropriate expression might be “Give a Christer enough wood and he will crucify himself. LOL

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @schlukitz:

      You need psychological help. A LOT. You are a BASHER AND A BIGOT. YOU THINK ITS FUN and yet you throw spears?

      I have never belonged to any Church or organized religion. NEVER.

      find a doctor. a good one.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @SM:

      Yeah, because in light of this tragedy, YOU’RE THE REAL VICTIM HERE, SM. You sick fuck.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 6:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Jared: @Jared: @hardmannyc: @epluribusunumjk:

      The zionists and other rightwingers adressed deny that the racist miltary bunker-state mentality that’s used to opress Palestininas has any bearing on the homohating violence that exploded so tragically in Tel Aviv.

      Would they deny that the bunker state military rulers in Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan exactly duplicate zionist militarism and oppression. Even in the US the Clinton/Bush/Obama wars moves politics as a whole to the right?

      Unable to present facts all they can do is to try to shut us up. That might work (for a while longer) in occupied Palestine but it doesn’t work here.

      Here one reason why. The only religious leader in the world worthy of respect is Desmond Tutu, who’s been honored for his work against racist aparthied and homohaters. He won’t shut up either. In fact the BBC quotes him saying

      South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu has accused Israel of practising apartheid in its policies towards the Palestinians.

      The Nobel peace laureate said he was “very deeply distressed” by a visit to the Holy Land, adding that “it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa”.

      Archbishop Tutu said his criticism of the Israeli Government did not mean he was anti-Semitic.

      “I am not even anti-white, despite the madness of that group” he said.

      The archbishop attacked the political power of Jewish groups in the United States, saying: “People are scared in this country, to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful – very powerful. Well, so what?

      “The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust.”

      The lesson is that bunker states and apartheidist colonies like the zionist state always fall and that people will always stand up to them and defeat them.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 6:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @TANK:

      It’s SM’s standard M.O.

      We’ve all seen how she manages to turn each thread into a discussion about herself and has managed to alienate every person on these threads with the exception of DuttyBarb and YCHTT.

      But then, birds of a feather flock together, don’t they?

      Aug 3, 2009 at 7:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @schlukitz:

      I don’t even comment to DUTTYBARB.

      You all are hilarious in your own hatred.

      Aug 3, 2009 at 7:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • edgyguy1426
      edgyguy1426

      @schlukitz: I don’t by far think she’s (SM) one of those religious freaks and can’t even come close to being in the same category with Dutty or YCHTT. SM purports to be on our side and almost never fails to pat her own back for doing so. It’s almost like freak gay munchausen syndrome.

      Look, it IS patriotic to criticize the president if we don’t think he or she is acting in our best interests, we learned that during the previous administration. If you had ever been in our shoes (and just having a gay brother -allegedly- doesn’t count) you can’t begin to even know what we’ve experienced not just the past 8 years, but every day of being demonized by virtue of being just who we are.

      Now I don’t resort to name calling and such, it doesn’t really serve any purpose than to get under someone’s skin, you tell me to go screw myself when I point out some hypocritical statements on your part, it’s ok with me.Really.

      I do support the Administration on pretty much everything (else) so far, I’m not sure about health care, I’m a small business owner and it’s kind of scary the way I’m being taxed to death for everything. I’m very proud of Obama and what he’s doing for the country on the International stage, but if you’re gonna go out on a limb and claim the mantle of fierce advocate you don’t act or let those in your administration act the way he has. I don’t expect anything to be handed to me but I did expect he would help us convince the people that needed convincing that our civil rights needed should come sooner rather than later. This is the man with the greatest communicative powers we may ever see in this job. And a few words to the NAACP ain’t cutting it.
      We’re not gonna go all mushy when Obama mentions LGBT in a speech, we learned that lesson with Clinton. Talk is cheap. Luckily in Illinois my Senators are on board, guys to your best to get people in the Senate who support us and like the president keep the pressure on.

      It’s the MOST patriotic thing you can do (remember: Obama asked that you hold him to his promises)

      Aug 3, 2009 at 11:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • edgyguy1426
      edgyguy1426

      should be guys do your best -I’m kinda sleepy

      Aug 3, 2009 at 11:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TikiHead
      TikiHead

      @SM: “No. 171 · SM

      @schlukitz:

      I don’t even comment to DUTTYBARB.”

      Why talk to yourself? Oh, wait…

      Aug 4, 2009 at 2:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @TikiHead:

      LOL

      Aug 4, 2009 at 3:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @schlukitz:

      Its really funny that you are so proud of how low class you act towards people.

      You have got to be 12

      Aug 4, 2009 at 3:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @edgyguy1426:

      No you look like fools to straight people always lashing out at EVERYTHING. You don’t critiqe the President. You all have been having a full blown temper tantrum since before Christmas over everything.

      No one will even notice if you have a legitimate complaint.

      Your problem is in CONGRESS.

      hey…keep looking like fools to all the straight people. You all claim to KNOW SO MUCH SO HOW COME YOU LOSE SO MUCH? Start winning.

      Aug 4, 2009 at 3:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AL
      AL

      It’s highly probable that the attack was carried out by Islamofascists. If this is the case, I would like to see the Israelis launching a series of retaliatory attacks on “Palestinian” settlements to inflict as much collateral damage as possible. When it come to War on Terror, all means are justifiable to extinguish the enemy whether they are civilians or military personnel. KILL ‘EM ALL.

      Aug 4, 2009 at 3:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @SM:

      Its really funny that you are so proud of how low class you act towards people.

      Nay, nay…Pauline.

      My heart beats only for you! ?

      Aug 4, 2009 at 3:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SM
      SM

      @schlukitz:

      You all crack me up.

      Your problem is in Congress. Just look at Health Care. We cannot even have an honest health care debate in this country anymore because of all the extremes taking over.

      If Hillary Clinton or Obama had won their Presidency passing a lie detector test saying they were honest on LGBT equality and there was a Republican House and Senate, every campaign promise would have been null, void, and gridlocked for years anyway.

      It does not matter what campaign promise any President makes if Congress will not follow up with legislation or support his Administration.

      Aug 4, 2009 at 3:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @AL: Another demented would be murderer heard from. This ones on steriods.

      Aug 4, 2009 at 6:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nick
      Nick

      Wasn’t Michael Lucas just saying how great Israel is for the gays?

      Aug 4, 2009 at 8:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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