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The Care and Feeding of Your Homosexual: A User’s Guide for Straights

398px-lovely_sailor_and_probably_fag_hag-christopher_street_day-berlin_2006Last week it happened again. I was at a dinner party at The Standard, downtown L.A.’s hipster-by-way-of-Ikea boutique hotel and what was originally supposed to be an intimate group of four had become, by the time I showed up fashionably late, a massive table of sixteen, thanks to the hostess. The Hostess is of a certain type you might recognize; casually affluent, martini-swilling, in a chiffon dress by a designer whose name is unpronounceable. She’s Carrie Bradshaw. She’s Holly Golightly. She’s Julia Roberts in My Best Friend’s Wedding. She’s Willamina Slater. And fifteen minutes after I sit down, she’s sitting in my lap, preventing me from grabbing a bite of my Kobe carpaccio, which I dare not eat lest it wind up on the dress, which is now rubbing up against my nose. Ten minutes later, she’s insisting I unzip the back of the dress and examine her tattoos. Another ten minutes and she’s telling me how we’re going to be friends forever and jokes how this must be the most action I’ve ever had with a girl.

“Not true!”, I tell here. “There was a girl in college who would make me touch her breasts when she got drunk.” She laughs and starts bouncing up and down on my knee, grinding her pelvis into mine while regaling the guests about her latest European business trip. Inside, I am having a straight panic.

And honestly, I want to be friends with The Hostess. She’s smart and cool and obviously knows how to throw a party, but as my gay friends stare on and mouth apologies, I’m already certain this isn’t going to work out. You see, I am not going to ever be her friend, not really. I am going to be her mancessory, the sort of de rigeur item you take out with you shopping (I hate shopping!) or call about your man problems (“He’s a loser; fuck him and then dump him” is what you’ll want to hear, I’ll oblige) and then one day, you’ll make a joke about how if we’re both single at 35, we should just get married and we’ll both laugh at how funny that is, until you go, “No, really.”

If you’re a girl of a certain age, or even a metrosexual boy with an enlightened sense of style, chances are you have a gay best friend. You two are probably pretty tight and tell each other everything. After all, gays are like really understanding well-dressed genies, right? Like all cute, smart and adorable animals, your gay is more complicated than you think. To help you get the most out of your gay BFF, we’ve assembled a brief manual of operations.

Gay men are like straight men, it’s just they’re not trying to fuck you.

“Why can’t there be straight guys, like you?” you ask us and we smile, secure in our knowledge that we’re more talented, charming and well-groomed than any straight boy you’ll ever encounter. Here’s the dirty little secret the gays have been keeping from you: We’re huge horrible jerks, too—it’s just we have no desire to pork you, so we won’t fuck with your head. Yes, we listen to you and talk about our feelings, but believe it or not, these are things that straight guys do as well, they just don’t do it with you. Again, because of the whole fucking thing. They’re trying to get into bed with you and men, in general, always assume there’s some sort of secret game of indifference and emotional manipulation that’s needed to score. How do we know this? Because we do it to other guys all the time. We don’t call our dates back. We act aloof and have terrible fears of commitment. You know how we tell you about all the terrible things our various boyfriends do to us? Well, guess what? We’re doing them, too. Why do we seem like such a better catch than straight dudes? Because we don’t want to have sex with you. If we did, we’d be jerks, too.

Never fall in love with your gay.

Following from this, the single most important thing to maintaining a long term friendship with your gay is to never-ever fall in love with them. Remember how you felt about N’Sync growing up? Chances are, your gay BFF brings up a lot of those old pre-teen feelings. At some point, perhaps during some 2am chat about the various merits of Ben & Jerry’s Mint Chocolate Chip, you’ll think to yourself, “This is so much better than the annoying singles scene. If only I could get him to sleep with me.” When you start having these thoughts, you need to send your gay home. While we can have deep emotional relationships with our girlfriends, we’re never going to be able to give you what you want. The reason the relationship is easy is because it’s not going anywhere. Real relationships are messy, complicated and riddled with self-doubt and expectation. Pursuing a gay boy will only wind up with you resenting them, not just because they can’t return your love, but because you’ve spent all your time wooing them instead of finding a man who will give you what you want.

britneyspears-howimetyourmother-set-050508Do not call yourself a “fag hag.” Do not let your gay call you one.

“Fag hag” is a really demeaning term. It’s a fat girl who can never get a date. It’s someone who still has unicorn posters in her bedroom. You’re a woman. Your life isn’t defined by your gays and if it is, you should reconsider what you’re doing with your life. Don’t hide behind your gays. Don’t use them as a crutch. Instead, face life fabulously together.

Don’t ask “So are you the guy or the girl?” Do ask about gay sex.

Don’t laugh! This happens more often than you think. At some point, you’re going to start becoming interested in how this whole gay sex thing happens and despite everything the Japanese manga industry has told you, it’s not all longing gazes and hand-holding. Believe it or not, most gays are shy about talking about their sex lives, at least with straight people. This is because, for the most part, the heterosexual world considers what we do gross and icky. Taking an active interest in your gays sex life will show them that you’re actually interested in them. On a related note, feel free to ask them about gay rights and gay causes. Don’t just tell them you agree with them, but ask their opinion. It’s a two-way street girlfriend. It is totally okay to ask if they’re a top or a bottom, though. Just don’t laugh when they say they’re a top.

If he drags you to a gay bar, drag him to a straight one.

Another dirty little secret about your gay BFF: The reason he drags you out to gay bars is to get laid. As previously mentioned, gays are just as bad as straights when it comes to dating and hooking-up and having you by his side takes off a lot of the pressure. Just as he’s your emotional safety net, at a gay bar, you are his rejection safety net. You’re also a convenient conversation starter: “Oh, yeah, this is Dana. I thought I’d take her out and show her how the gay half lives!” You’re someone who can vouch for the fact that he’s not a psycho without looking like competition.

This is great and all, but you need to make sure there’s some parity. Use your gay boy to get you some straight tail. Promise him a night of breeder fun and hold him to it. The best way to lure a gay out on a straight night is say you want to start off at Hooters. As we’ve mentioned many times before on this blog, Hooters is gay catnip. We don’t know why, but seriously, just thinking about Hooters makes me want to call up The Hostess for hot wings. Once you have them out, drag them to a straight bar, point out men you’re into and use them as props.

Now, here’s how this works for both of you. At some point in the night your gay is going to meet a man or you are. You need to have a signal for each other which means, “I am ready to get laid now. Time to go.” If you think this is mean or unfair, just imagine you’ve met a really cute guy at a bar, you’re getting along famously and your gay friend is there, talking about the latest Daft Punk album. Remember, the key to a healthy straight-gay relationship is to be having sex with people who will have sex with you. Never let that trump your desire for emotional snuggle time.

fag_051027094059641_wideweb__300x375Don’t make your boyfriend hang out with your gay. If you’re a straight dude, please don’t assume we want to sleep with you.

Congratulations! You’ve followed all our advice and instead of developing a tragic codependency with your gay, you’ve both found boyfriends are maintaining a healthy friendship. Now, do your straight lover a favor and don’t insist that he become BFF’s with your gay, too. If it happens, let it happen, but as many a Craigslist rant attests to, straight guys don’t like competition, even if it’s from gay dudes.

And now a word for the straight guys: We don’t want to sleep with you. Now, because we’re guys, we know that underneath that macho exterior, there’s a insecure guy constantly craving validation. But it’s amazing that no matter how unattractive, unshaven or slovenly they are, every straight guy I’ve known for any length of time has admitted that he assumes I am secretly into them. What’s worse is that they’re crestfallen when I say, “Sorry, you’re not my type.” Yes, some of you guys are really hot, but for the most part, our desire not to get beaten up and killed trumps whatever desire we have to make a move on you. Now, if you start reciprocating, all bets are off, but so long as you don’t want to sleep with us, we’re probably not going to try to sleep with you.

Because you know another gay person, do not assume that they will make the perfect boyfriend for your gay BFF.

You know what happens when you set us up on a date with the other gay you know? We go for dinner at a mid-scale restaurant and talk about you the whole time. We smile politely at each other and go our separate ways. Why? There’s nothing so unsexy as being set-up by our straight BFF.

By:           Japhy Grant
On:           Feb 20, 2009
Tagged: , , ,
  • 110 Comments
    • POP MUSIC FORUM
      POP MUSIC FORUM

      It’s posts like these that make me question why i visit this blog…

      you’d be better off writing about drying paint japhy

      Feb 20, 2009 at 7:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Christian
      Christian

      Oh, I think you’re taking it too seriously. I enjoyed this post, and also like Japhy’s hard-hitting stuff. :)

      Feb 20, 2009 at 8:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ed
      Ed

      Oh, I don’t know – it’s funny because it’s true. And I’ve been there – trying to explain to a straight girls we’re not a set of book ends, just having two doesn’t mean we’re a set. Sure it’s exaggerated for humor, but I think most of us have had times, maybe when we were younger, when we wish we could just hand a girl all the rules in a simple, printed form so we didn’t have to hurt their feelings by saying it out loud. And I’ve hurt a few feelings trying to explain different points here when they took them as rejection.

      It’s funny because it’s true. And it’s also sad and slightly uncomfortable because it’s true.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 8:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • moo
      moo

      @POP MUSIC FORUM: Piss off with your dumb forum; no one cares.

      Japhy, I thought it was okay, a little long maybe.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 8:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Qjersey
      Qjersey

      Damn I can’t remember who said it now, but in an interview some famous female with lots of gay friends (i think it might have been Ana Ortiz from Ugly Betty) says she hates fag hag and prefers to be called a “fairy princess” LOL

      Feb 20, 2009 at 8:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hubbaduh
      Hubbaduh

      @Qjersey: It was Ana Ortiz :)

      Feb 20, 2009 at 8:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Krzyleo
      Krzyleo

      - The best way to lure a gay out on a straight night is say you want to start off at Hooters. As we’ve mentioned many times before on this blog, Hooters is gay catnip. We don’t know why, but seriously, just thinking about Hooters makes me want to call up The Hostess for hot wings. – This is what I got out of that whole article…haha. I love Hooters, the place not the fun bags…lol…ew.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 9:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben
      Ben

      @POP MUSIC FORUM:

      I feel the same way.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 10:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Evan
      Evan

      Yeah, actually this post is must-reading for many of the women I’ve been friends with over the years.

      If you look at my female friends, you’ll notice a common thread: they all have their OWN lives. I can’t handle those girls who are friends with EVERY gay guy they meet, at EVERY gay bar…it’s like, darling, what are you doing, precisely?

      Feb 20, 2009 at 10:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexa
      Alexa

      @Qjersey: Fairy princess, cute.

      @Krzyleo: Hooters has the best wings, seriously.

      Japhy, loved this post. I have a couple of straight female friends who really, really need to read it.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 10:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eric
      Eric

      Hilarious and oh so true….

      Feb 20, 2009 at 10:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben
      Ben

      You guys need new friends

      Feb 20, 2009 at 10:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill in PDX
      Bill in PDX

      Been there so many times. She wants me to take her side when In sometimes feel sorry for the guy coz my SBFF str8 best friend 4ever is HIGH maintenance. I have had them fall in love; assume I am a total girl; lament that all the good ones are gay; introduce me to her boyfriend (sometimes that backfires as she has again chosen a closest case– and he and I have hooked up ) ; tell me what a good listener I am as my eye is scannig for man candy……
      I do like shopping and I do relate on a lot of levels but I am not a mascot; not at all.
      Funny post and for me–true….

      Feb 20, 2009 at 10:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      LMFAO – soo true. I wish I could tape this to my office door and hand it out to everyone of these girls, whom I seem to attract.

      While I hate hooters and I like shopping (for men’s clothes, not with or for women’s) the rest was spot on.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 10:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tom
      Tom

      LMFAO. Awesome article Japhy.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 11:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hardmannyc
      hardmannyc

      Every fag hag I know embraces the term.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 11:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cruiser
      cruiser

      Absolutely hilarious, so many things were/are so true. I l;ove stuff like this, it shows therest of the world that not only do we dress well, we actually have a sense of humor and on occasion laugh at ourselves.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 11:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Timmeeeyyy
      Timmeeeyyy

      I think somebody wants to be Carrie Bradshaw.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 11:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ezekiel
      Ezekiel

      Nothing uncomfortable about this at all — it’s ALL true, and very well-written to boot, in my opinion! I think there should be more of this literature floating around; it would help the breeder community to understand us better without getting freaked out. Especially liked the bit about how gay guys don’t necessarily want to sleep with you, or even find you attractive. Duh, boys.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 12:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Aaron
      Aaron

      Yeah, BFF is a straight guy so I’ve never had any of the problems listed above.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RS
      RS

      I’ve never had my own, erm, fairy princess, but this was still fun. And your first point (gay men are like straight men … they’re just a jerk with other gays) is so true. Even those of us without fairy princesses in tow know it’s true.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Aaron
      Aaron

      @Aaron: I meant my BFF is a straight guy. Left out the ‘my’ part.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • msim
      msim

      One fantastic and unsung pairing is the lesbian/gay friends. My best friend is a gay man – has been so for the past 20 years.

      We talk about lots of things from sex to rugby, from fashion to Real Madrid, from art to politics -it’s been great and lovely.

      We alternate on where we hang out -I’ll admit the music is better in gay men’s clubs. I get along with his partner, he gets along with mine. No unrequited crush but loads of love.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Aaron
      Aaron

      @msim: My roommate is a lesbian and I have to say I think the music in the lesbian bars is better. Not into the techno pop stuff they play at the gay bars, but the lesbian bar has The Smiths, Johnny Cash, Tom Waits, Siouxsie & The Banshees, etc. on their jukebox.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 2:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mccarthy
      Mccarthy

      every word is true. Love it.
      My BFF prefers to be called Arm Charm.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 3:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mikey
      mikey

      @Sebbe: beginning to like how you think…I used to think I loved to shop, until I went shopping with a woman…I actually buy things when I shop, and things that I need, probably why I like shopping at Nordstroms…grab myself a personal shopping assistant who follows me from shoes to underwear to menswear…can usually get in and out in a long lunch hour (and have lunch there too)…have a problem with the truth, I tell it…yes you look fat, no you can’t afford that, and no, you’re really not a size 0, if I’m a size 32 in menswear and can fit into it, it’s not a 0…

      Feb 20, 2009 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal
      sal

      Don’t ask “So are you the guy or the girl?”
      ummm,i do that and im a gay guy lol

      Feb 20, 2009 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal
      sal

      ..and the part about straight bf…personally its always the ugly(looks and personality)straight guys who wonder if im hot for em and all the actual hot straight guys i crush on are the ones that are too secure in their sexuality that they are sweet but never cross the line…lol

      Feb 20, 2009 at 3:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ricardo
      ricardo

      its fluff but its true.

      a girl who was my friend fell in love with me and it was too awkward.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 4:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucas
      Lucas

      Japh, I thought this was hysterical. It was cute and witty, and pretty much everything that I tell my straight friends all the time. Oh, and down with ‘fag hag!’ What a terrible term!

      Too cute, Japhy, too cute

      Feb 20, 2009 at 4:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NICHOLAS
      NICHOLAS

      LOVE the last point (just because you know another gay person, don’t assume they will be the perfect boyfriend for your gay BFF)

      i hate when people say, ‘i have a gay friend – you guys should go out!’ as if, just because we are both gay, we’re going to love each other and totally get along…

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kevin (not that one)
      kevin (not that one)

      I think in all fairness, it would be nice if Cord could post “the care and feeding of your heterosexual – a users guides for gays” since we too often do not know how to interact with the straight world.

      Here’s some of the things I’d expect to hear from straight guys:

      *Don’t assume that we are secretly bi or gay because we have gay friends and like antiques. That is just wishing and hoping.”

      *Don’t assume it’s acceptable to hit on us when we’re drunk.

      *Don’t assume we’re homophobic because we’re not comfortable listening to you talk about slings, butt plugs, and other misadventures in your gay sex life.

      *Don’t assume that we want to dress like you.

      *Be yourself, not what you assume you should be around us.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @mikey – LOL, I like your shopping style too. Meet me at Nordstroms any time for a quick hour power shop.

      @Kevin (not that one) – hilarious

      This one is especially important to practice that you mentioned: “*Be yourself, not what you assume you should be around us”.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sean
      Sean

      I loathe being some straight woman’s fetish object. Isn’t that what it’s really all about?

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jon B
      Jon B

      I think we need one of these specifically tailored to straight male friends, because most of my best friends are straight guys who still don’t understand much about being gay. I’ve been out to them for five years now, and they still sometimes get confused about how to act. For example, they try really hard not to say “that’s so gay” without realizing that they can still use the word “gay” to describe a gay guy, so every once in a while I get one of these: “I think so and so is gay. No offense, Jon.” None taken.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 6:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @ Jon B – Hearing “no offense” constantly is the worst from “stag hags”. LOL

      Sorry I know its a lame word also. I think some of my straight friends wear it as a badge.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 6:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Berry
      Berry

      This is a cute article, but I’m starting to get really tired of all the exclusively gay male posts. Lesbians read queerty too!

      Feb 20, 2009 at 7:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kevin (not that one)
      kevin (not that one)

      @Berry: Agreed, Berry.

      I’m pretty sure I’ve helped contribute to this online Castro Street demographic. It would be nice to see more lesbian-related posts.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 11:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @ Berry (#37):

      I don’t think they really do read Queerty, they have their own blogs.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 4:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • petted
      petted

      @Ayden: I rather expect your right about there being sites that cater more directly to lesbians though that’s not to say that I think there’s not room to go around here.

      @Berry: Just wondering what sort of additional coverage you have in mind do you mean more news, editorials, or whimsical larks? It’d probably be better to take content suggestions directly to Queerty’s staff though certainly bringing it up in the forum allows others to provide their 2 cents.

      Any who its time to crash – just curious but is anyone else looking forward to the next state of the week article? Must stop editing – night all.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 6:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Petted: I appreciate your comments.

      At the risk of sounding controversial, I visit Queerty because I am a gay white male. I have no interest in ‘women issues’. While I’m not opposed to sporadic and infrequent attention to lesbians, I do not want this blog devoting any more time to their cause.

      Queerty claims to be free of an agenda, except for and I quote, “that gay one”. It does not state “lesbian” in the header. There are other websites which cater to female interest pieces and vagina monologue.

      I’m not anti-women by any means, but to try and broaden the appeal of Queerty will only cause harm to the blog.

      Simply because I am gay does not mean I care about lesbians, bisexuals or transgender persons. I don’t even know why some people try and group us together as one cause – GLBT – because we are not. I can see some purpose to grouping G + L and even Bs together, but not Ts. I am quite comfortable being male, and I hate being associated with crossdressers. I find Ts offensive and do not want to extend any rights to them. Remember, had we not tried to press for “gender identity” clauses in all legislation, but instead limited it to “sexual orientation”, gay marriage would be legal in every state. I have to agree with straights when they observe how bizarre and socially-inept crossdressers are, with their drug use and alcohol abuse.

      Transgender persons should fight their own battles, because at the moment they’re hindering the rights of gays, lesbians and bisexuals everywhere.

      p.s. I am not opposed to lesbians reading the blog.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 6:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexa
      Alexa

      @Ayden: Gee, thanks for your approval of my reading here, something I’ve done since the very first day Queerty started. Now I’d appreciate it if you’d stfu.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 9:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Alexa – as another “gay white male” let me say I love and support my lesbian sisters.

      @Ayden – How can we expect to gain straight allies when all to often express similar discrimination against others in the queer community?

      Feb 21, 2009 at 9:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      and support and love my bi and transgendered brothers and sisters as well.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 9:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Alexa:

      As I clearly stated, I have no objections to lesbians, bisexuals or straight people reading Queerty. I acknowledged that my views may be controversial, perhaps you did not notice that comment.

      @Sebbe:

      I do not discriminate against anyone, on any basis. That being said, I do not consider it fair to lump gays, lesbians, bisexuals AND transvestites into the 1 category. This isn’t my opinion but transvestites are revolting, insecure, live off welfare payments and have drug addictions. Of course they deserve rights, but I’m not pushing for them. I’d appreciate if we could remove the T from GLBT, as almost everyone supports GLB people, but most consider Ts to be quite unacceptable. If they want to start their own civil rights movement, they’re welcome to, however they may need to get an education first.

      SO TO REITERATE, I have no objections to lesbians reading this blog. I just don’t think Queerty should devote so much coverage to them.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 10:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Ayden – “almost everyone supports GLB people” – I only wish that were true and I assume you live somewhere (as do I) where it is the case, but certainly is not the case everywhere.

      “I have no objections to lesbians reading this blog. I just don’t think Queerty should devote so much coverage to them.” – What percentage of coverage do YOU feel would be appropriate to allocate to lesbians? 0, 5, 80?

      “As I clearly stated, I have no objections to lesbians, bisexuals or straight people reading Queerty.” – But you do object to Transsexual/gendered people “reading” queerty?

      I will admit that I do not personally know any transsexual/transgendered people (are possibly never will) and that while I may not understand them as well, I think it rather pompous of you to find your civil rights in higher regard to ANY other group of people that are discriminated against.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 10:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      Queerty = queert which is a term that is inclusive of people who are not heterosexual-includes lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgenders. For many GLBT persons, the term “queer” has negative connotations, however many GLBT persons are now comfortable with the term and have “reclaimed” it as a symbol of pride.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 10:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      = queer

      Feb 21, 2009 at 10:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      The “gay agenda” is is a term used by some social conservatives primarily in the United States, referring to advocacy of cultural acceptance and normalization of non-heterosexual orientations and relationships. Efforts referred to by the term include changing government policies regarding LGBT issues — such as same-sex marriage, LGBT adoption, categorizing sexual orientation as a civil rights minority group, inclusion of LGBT people in the military, and inclusion of LGBT history and issues in public education — as well as non-governmental campaigns and individual actions to increase visibility and cultural acceptance of LGBT people, relationships, and identities. There are some who believe that there are conspiratorial elements in this effort.

      [Q&A What is the gay agenda and what can Christians do to stop it? Focus of the Family Action via wikipedia]

      http://www.citizenlink.org/CLFeatures/A000000562.cfm

      Feb 21, 2009 at 10:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Sebbe:

      Admittedly, I did not read what you wrote, because that link you provided has no credibility. If you’re going to cite evangelical Christians, I’m not going to read it. Sorry.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 10:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      Ignoring the enemy doesn’t seem to me to be wise if trying to defeat them, but it is your decision. Whom do you believe coined the term “gay agenda” with an attempt to give it a negative connotation if not the crazy evangelical Christians?

      Feb 21, 2009 at 10:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      I will ask again if you would be so kind as to enlighten us and possibly the editors as to what percentage of coverage do YOU feel would be appropriate to allocate to lesbians?

      Feb 21, 2009 at 10:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kevin (not that one)
      kevin (not that one)

      @Ayden: I’ve seen this behavior from the gay community before and it’s just plain disgusting.

      I wonder what Harvey Milk would think of your gay male separatism?

      I wonder what all of those gay men whose families abandoned them during the worst part of the AIDS crisis in the early 80s would’ve done without all of the lesbian caretakers who stepped forward?

      I wonder where the marriage equality movement would be without the National Center for Lesbian Rights and the many lesbian couples who’ve been at the forefront of this struggle?

      I wonder why when I volunteered to fight against Prop 8 why there where at times more lesbians standing shoulder to shoulder with me than gay men?

      I wonder why, when the LGBT community where I live came out to oppose the invasion of Iraq and held a die-in and march through the Castro, more than half of the demonstrators were lesbians?

      I wonder why, for the most part, lesbians don’t have a problem with coming out on the job, but gay men continue to stay in the closet?

      You know, Ayden, you’re not very gay are you? Oh, you may be homosexual, but you aren’t gay. Because gay means something more than just homosexual. In fact, gay means pretty much what it meant when the word was first coined: LIBERATED. Liberated from self-hatred, sure. But also liberated from the negative values of the dominant culture.

      You aren’t liberated. You are still a homosexual slave to the gutter values of the dominant culture. You want exclusivity. You want social castes. You want male privilege. You want conformity and homogeny. You want validation from being part of boys club.

      Shame on you. I don’t know who’s worse: the self-hating gays who go on Tyra or joined Exodus International, or folks like you who stir up discontent from the inside with your petty, narrow-minded hubris.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Sebbe:

      I don’t want to incite hate or start any controversy here, but I’d rather no coverage of lesbians. They have their own blogs. Don’t get me wrong, I love Ellen Degenerous and can occasionally tolerate Rosie O’Donnel, but their issues do not appeal to me.

      I do not want to read articles pertaining to ‘female issues’ and, frankly, I don’t think Queerty editors are qualified to write on for a female audience. Lesbians should read blogs that specifically devote their content to them, this can help them feel accepted by society.

      However, I’m happy for 1 or 2 stories every month to mention lesbians. We do not need to eradicate them completely from this site, of course. That would be an absurd suggestion.

      btw. In terms of transvestites, I do not hate them. I like the one that appeared on the Tyra show recently. She was very human, although obviously depressed and (before Tyra rescued her) was homeless. This is embarrassing: as gay men try to gain acceptance, we need to do so on the basis that we are educated, affluent and have greater disposable incomes (due to a lack of dependents). Crossdressers go against everything we work to attain.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anthony in Nashville
      Anthony in Nashville

      Dang Ayden, you are salty! I give you props for putting your true feelings out there but that snobbish attitude is a definitive example of why it’s hard for a cohesive gay “community” to exist and why many gays of color don’t feel like they’re welcomed in the “mainstream” gay community. Although I’m sure you aren’t too concerned about that …

      I’d like to know what world you’re living in where “almost everyone supports GLB people” and gay marriage would have been legal if not for transgendered folks. Based on my experience and articles/polls I’ve read, I can’t think of anywhere in the US that fits that criteria.

      I happen to feel transgendered people are a tricky inclusion into the GLB struggle because some of them don’t identify as gay.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kevin (not that one)
      kevin (not that one)

      LOL!!!! and now Ayden doesn’t want the “T” in “GLBT”…or as we non-sexists usually write it out “LGBT”.

      Ayden, you really have no comprehension of what our community looks like. You really should get out of your bunker and see what the LESBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL AND TRANSGENDER community THAT I’M A PART OF looks like.

      You also have no clue about what the parameters of queerness are, even as you try in vain to distance yourself from it. But trust me dear, if you are gay, you are queer. You are queer in my eyes as a gay man, and you are DEFINITELY queer in the eyes of heterosexuals. And every single one of us queers, whether we are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender are in the same boat. We began as an unintentional community bound up in a collective oppression and shared suffering, but we are overwhelmingly choosing to fight as a united force.

      And frankly, gay men like you and those in HRC, are not uniters. You are dividers.

      So piss off.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      I don’t pretend to pass myself as an expert on this subject, but haven’t there been studies that show that crossdressing occur at approximately the same percentage in the heterosexual as homosexual community. Again, I may be uninformed, but crossdressing and transsexualism are not the same?

      I would also encourage you to not develop stereotypes on ANY group of people based on what its portrayed on the Tyra Banks Show.

      While I am also “young, white, educated, affluent and have a greater disposable income (due to a lack of dependents)” it does not make me better or worse than any other human being of a different race, age or perceived or real socioeconomically status.

      The way to gain acceptance and our civil rights is not to put those in the closet and hidden that are not shinny examples to white, rural & suburban, middle America.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @kevin (not that one) – I personally gained a deep and lasting gratitude, appreciation and love for my lesbian sisters during our fight for marriage equality in Massachusetts. One that I cherish and will never forget and might add one that has added numerous friends and family of which I am very thankful for.

      Prior to that I will admit I thought, if there is no dick what’s the point? How young, naive and ignorant I was. But you see Ayden (and others like him) choose to sit back and let others fight for them and there rights and remain unexposed to the realities of the battle while enjoying their comfortable lives.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Kevin:

      You do not know me. For the record, I do not live Harvey Milk either: sure, I can acknowledge his accomplishments and recognize that he should never have been assassinated, but his ‘achievements’ are overrated. He did not bring marriage equality to the State, he did nothing to prevent hate speech, or even ensure job security.

      You are trying to extrapolate too much from my comments. Of course it is unacceptable that men (who, note, foolishly had unprotected sex) were abandoned by their families when they needed support the most. This was quite unfortunate.

      For marriage equality, lesbians absolutely deserve the right to marry. I am glad they have been so supportive of the movement but, again, that is a topic for a lesbian-centric blog to acknowledge. Not Queerty.

      As for your observation that “lesbians don’t have a problem with coming out on the job, but gay men continue to stay in the closet”, I would disagree and ask for some evidence to support these claims. For me, the experience has been quite the opposite. I do not know any ‘real’ lesbians, but I know many gay men. Afterall, gay men are still men and most workplaces (regretfully) would rather hire a man over a woman. I work with many gay men and the occasional girl (but always identifying as straight).

      As for me being “not very gay”? I’m just as homosexual as you are. I fall in love with men, I find affection for them, and I certainly like cock. But what you need to realize is, again, GAY MEN ARE STILL MEN. Just because I happen to like boys does not mean I must be effeminate or participate in pride parades. If anything, I find these festivals degrading and they should be outlawed. I am confidently gay and very fabulous: there’s no self-hatred here.

      Do I want “exclusivity … social castes … male privilege … conformity and homogeny … validation from being part of boys club”? Yes, and really, what man doesn’t?

      To reiterate, Kevin, you do not know me. I am quite content with how I live my life and, unlike you, I don’t need to pretend for a moment that I must have the support of crossdressers so to be successful. I’m very happy surrounding myself with men, both gay and straight, and women, lesbian and straight. I don’t need to go looking for peasants or (not to be mean) heshes for some form of validation.

      @Anthony:

      Thank you for your comments. I would like to make clear that I love gay men of all colors and ethnicities. Oddly enough, when I see people, I do not see skin color, I just see a human being? haha.

      I guess that’s something from my upbringing: I can’t even say the “b” word without feeling racist. I oppose racism in all its forms and agree work must be done so that gay men of all backgrounds feel comfortable expressing their sexuality.

      And I agree with you that transvestites should not be included in our civil rights movement. They should make their own.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Kevin (again!):

      I did not realize you were so particular. I didn’t realize it is written LGBT, not GLBT. Sorry, it’s just we normally write male pronouns first, right? Like ‘he’ before ‘she’? Because previously society viewed men as more important than women? I guess this must be part of a feminist movement, writing L before T, but in that case I really do wish lesbians could focus more on important issues, such as marriage equality.

      I also forward your comments to one of my colleagues, who agrees that you, girlfriend, are ridiculous. Your arguments are far from compelling and simply say “depression” as I read them. I hope you can overcome this. There has never been any question as to my sexuality, and I happily identify as queer. That does not mean I must want equality for transvestites (although I do believe in rights for lesbians and some bisexuals).

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexa
      Alexa

      @Sebbe: Thanks. We should all support each other. I hate to use a cliche, but united we stand, etc etc etc.

      @Ayden:
      When Queerty changes its name, when it changes “gay” to “gay male” and when it removes the logo of two women from its header, then maybe you would have a point, but until then I assume we are welcome here. If you don’t like it, there are several other sites that cater to gay men that I’m sure you’d be welcome at. I’m not suggesting you stop posting, of course, but if our presence here offends you so much, maybe you would be happier there.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      I did not matriculate with a Juris Doctor in Law so to defend transvestites. I did so for selfless reasons, to work on bringing marriage equality for gay men and lesbians everywhere. It pains me when all our hard work is undermined by crossdressers, most of whom as Tyra shows, are welfare recipients, homeless and addicted to illicit drugs. They’re embarrassing and as a “community” bring out reputation into disrepute.

      @Alexa:

      Please read my comments in whole before replying. I have constantly said that I do NOT oppose lesbians from reading Queerty, and that we can maintain the current level of lesbian coverage on the blog. Likewise, there are websites catering to lesbians that you may feel more comfortable browsing.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      Is anyone else suspicious of Ayden’s alleged accomplishment of a J.D. and his “selfish” reason of obtaining one with the “hope” of “working on marriage equality for gay men and lesbians everywhere”?

      I also have a J.D. (Harvard Law) and my guess is that you are a self-hating 16 year old stuck in rural America. I would like to think that there is a chance your views will develop as you grow older and become more exposed to the world.

      With that said, thank you, because to anyone reading your comments you have made our point for us better than we could have.

      p.s. – You might want to update your references beyond the Tyra Banks show. Which law school did that get your through?

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexa
      Alexa

      @Ayden: I’m pretty comfortable browsing (and posting) here, but thanks so much for your concern.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Sebbe:

      I’m not going to continue this debate with you.

      I am anything but self-hating, and I fail to understand the logic behind that comment? Because I am happily gay, but do not feel obligated to participate in pride parades, I must be ashamed of my homosexuality? That is ridiculous.

      I will also be the first to admit that I have not done enough to stop Prop 8 or work towards legalizing same-sex marriages. I practice commercial law (and don’t believe in pro bono work) so naturally I’m very busy. However, I HAVE made a personal commitment to work towards legalizing same-sex marriage this year. I am happy to boycott businesses, picket churches, etc., and by the end of the year I will know I have made a difference. Yes, I can accept that as of today, I have done very little for our ’cause’, but that will change.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • moo
      moo

      I have to ask, is Ayden having a joke, because he can’t be serious?

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @moo:

      Thank you for being able to respect my opinion. This is exactly why I rarely comment on Queerty.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @MOO – clearly

      First he claims he went to law school for selfless reasons, “to work on bringing marriage equality for gay men and lesbians everywhere”.

      In the next breath, he hasn’t done enough, practices commercial law, doesn’t believe in pro bono work and is “very busy”. Next he has made a “personal commitment” to “work towards legalizing same-sex marriage this year”. He follows with the fact that he “boycott businesses, picket churches, etc.”. But goes on to say that he “can accept that as of today, I have done very little for our ’cause'”.

      LOL

      I know California has some “law schools” that are not approved by the ABA and only allow one to practice within California, some are correspondence courses, but I doubt he could even complete a program in one of those. Clearly it is a child trying to get a rise out of us.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • moo
      moo

      @Ayden: Respect is earned friend.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Sebbe:

      I’m not sure what I said that was so outlandish?

      I was only being honest, but I forgot you cannot tolerate opinions other than your own. Sorry, I don’t agree with your definitions of what it means to be ‘gay’ or ‘queer’. I consider myself normal – something that does not exist, I know, but while I am happily gay, I am still a man who could probably pass for being straight. But I choose not to. Being gay doesn’t mean I must support transvestites, etc., or even effeminate gay men (although I do), it means that I am comfortable entering relationships, sexual or otherwise, with members of the same sex. And that is a criterion I meet.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      And not that it matters, but I studied law at UCLA, an institute which is certainly accredited.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      Also I have flagged the offensive comments by Moo and Sebbe, I trust they will be removed or edited shortly.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      As a side note Ayden, since you are clearly interested in the pursuit of academic knowledge, the T in LGBT does not stand for transvestites. Transvestites and transsexuals are not one and the same.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • moo
      moo

      @Ayden: Offensive? Care to elaborate on what I posted and how it offended you?

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Moo:

      Sorry, did I misinterpret your comment?

      Were you saying that I DID or DID NOT earn your respect?

      If it’s the former, I’ll happily retract my ‘flag’, if it’s the latter, my flag still stads.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      *stands

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • moo
      moo

      @Ayden: How could you have earned my respect and how is withholding it offensive?

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Ayden – UCLA School of Law is not an “institute”, but certainly an accredited and respected institution. I would hope that the editors do review the comments and as such choose to expand the coverage here on queerty in regards to our recent discussion. I think it is an excellent idea for David or Japhy to write about.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 12:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      I’m not suspicious of Ayden’s J.D. in the least. Anyone can become a lawyer. It takes no effort at all, really. Most lawyers irredeemably simple folk, in fact. It doesn’t matter to that fact where you graduate from, either.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @Ayden:

      Are you serious? Staggering.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 5:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Magical
      Magical

      BACK TO THE ARTICLE …

      It was great. I also laughed my ass off at the Craig’s List posting that was linked. Ha!

      Feb 21, 2009 at 6:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Magical – there are some really other funny ones on craigslist best of as well. I never noticed that category before. Check out “Letter to Straight People I Meet at Straight Bars”. LMFAO


      This email has been sent from a mobile device in order to respond to you in a timely fashion. I believe I have still put in the time and effort to draft an appropriate response free of typos and grammatical or spelling errors. If this is not the case, I apologize in advance.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 6:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      sorry about that signature I meant to delete

      Feb 21, 2009 at 6:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Arlen Rothberg
      Arlen Rothberg

      A well written post both honest and insightful.Impressive.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 12:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason
      Jason

      @Ayden: I find it interesting that you like to flaunt your education around as though it gives your opinion more merit. So you know: it doesn’t. Furthermore, you’re not the only one here with that privilege. Plenty of us have higher degrees in various fields–fields in which you seem not to be particularly informed.

      A few things: LGBT and GLBT or even BLGT or ABGQLT–the list goes on–they’re all attempts (not always successful ones) at better inclusion. Strength lies in numbers, my friend, so the divisive language you’re using works against that very inclusion that’s key to social change.

      Sebbe was absolutely correct that “crossdresser” and “transsexual” are not one in the same. “Transvestite” is actually a term used by psychotherapists to describe males (by and large heterosexual) who get sexual pleasure out of wearing women’s clothing. “Cross-dressing” is the umbrella term that refers to wearing clothes traditionally worn by the opposite gender (including but not limited to “drag,” which refers to heightened theatrical performance). “Transgender” is another umbrella term describing someone who doesn’t fully identify with the roles and expectations associated with their assumed gender. Finally, “transsexual” refers to someone who takes measures to change their sexual assignment through the use of hormone supplements, surgery, etc.

      The point is this: you’ve lumped all these folks together as “crossdressers” and “transvestites,” but what you’ve done along the way has reinforced the exact same societal standards that oppress gay men (i.e., Men should be masculine, which includes sleeping with women). The converse for women is true (Women should be feminine, which includes sleeping with and loving men). So, Mr. Law School, I would advise you to stop looking at issues on such a microscopic scale. Put the pieces together. Lesbian issues are gay issues. Bisexual issues are gay issues. Transgender/transsexual issues are gay issues. They all stem from the same problems pervading our society.

      Having said that, back on topic of the article–I did get a few laughs out of this but it does seem to overgeneralize (especially in terms of gender roles and economic class… but that’s a different topic for a different day!).

      Feb 22, 2009 at 1:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rowen
      Rowen

      Does Qweerty even have lesbian writers? I’ve only been able to see some gay guys and that weird straight editor. I’m not sure I would even want a gay man writing about lesbian issues. (Most of the lesbians I know would agree) I never figured that Qweerty was trying to be all that “inclusive.” Would it be nice? Sure, but at the same time, I’ve tried reading some womyn’s, feminists, and lesbian blogs . . . and just felt that that wasn’t the right place for me, even though I do support their issues. Well, I wouldn’t say that it WASN’T the right place, but it did make me think about posting any comments.

      Or something like that. I’m rambling.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • petted
      petted

      @Alexa: Just wondering what stories you’d like to see more of or which articles did you enjoy? I don’t mean to come off as invasive or anything I just have the curiosity of a cat. At any rate have a good week -I’m off to consider breakfast/lunch.

      @Ayden – your looking at the trees and missing the forrest.

      Anyway later all I hope that regardless of what topics our dear editors choose to elucidate on next that they keep up the good work.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 3:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • petted
      petted

      @Rowen: I don’t think they do have any female writers, though I may be mistaken. – I didn’t think you were rambling, I think you expressed yourself quite well.

      I really need to stop and eat.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 3:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason
      Jason

      @Rowen: absolutely. It’s important for people to have safe spaces where everyone can express and share their interests. I’d consider Queerty such a place for gay men. My point about inclusiveness is that LGBTQA, etc., have the same agendas (not to be confused with interests, as in the case of Queerty’s tagline), because the oppression these groups experience comes from the same place (i.e., traditional sexual roles and the gender binary). It was a response to Ayden, whose inflammatory remarks about transgendered individuals warranted a further explanation that all issues are, at their core, interrelated. I would never mean to undercut the importance of having places where similar interests within groups of people can be discussed openly and freely.

      Having said that, though, I’m active in plenty of social and political groups where the lesbians don’t seem to mind my input at all. I don’t know which ones you’re hanging out with. It’s pretty essential that we all start paying attention to each other’s issues if we want anything to change around here.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 5:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason
      Jason

      @Rowen: I reread your post more carefully and I should say that I completely agree that there are times when our opinions can seem kind of useless in certain circumstances.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 5:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nate
      Nate

      Is anyone really taking this Ayden character seriously? The guy doesn’t know the difference between transgendered people and “cross-dressers”. (Two totally different things.) Also, he further showed his ignorance when he stated that Harvey milk didn’t do anything to promote Job security for gays. Uh….Ever heard of Proposition 6, little boy? (http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/California-Proposition-6-(1978))

      Also, he wants to BAN pride-parades? Seriously? I personally don’t enjoy the pride parade, but what kind of fascist are you that you want to ban a public gathering of gay people….something, by the way, that is protected by the very First Amendment to the Constitution–which you supposedly should know so much about after having attended UCLA law (uh, yeah, right.)

      Oh, and you also spelled both Ellen and Rosie’s names.

      Not the brightest bulb in the basket, my friend.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 7:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      “I don’t need to go looking for peasants… for some form of validation.”

      And you “don’t believe in pro-bono work”.

      You are “not opposed to lesbians reading the blog.” Well that’s mighty white of you.

      “I find Ts offensive and do not want to extend any rights to them.” Yes, they’re almost as bad as Mexicans, right?

      “Remember, had we not tried to press for “gender identity” clauses in all legislation, but instead limited it to “sexual orientation”, gay marriage would be legal in every state.”

      OK, no-one could seriously believe that. The rest I’ve heard from GWMs, but not even the most privileged and aristocratic could believe that. It’s just a Troll.

      Feb 23, 2009 at 5:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      There is too much misinformation being spread here. My comments are constantly being misconstrued.

      @Zoe Brain:
      I have NEVER said anything about Mexicans. They – even “illegal” immigrants – are still human beings and are a valuable contribution to our society. They are hard working and do not live off welfare payments.

      It is a commonly held belief, perhaps not on this website, but in the real world, that most Americans favor same-sex marriage but are scared off by transvestites.

      And you use ‘gay white male’ as though it is a derogatory term, it simply isn’t.

      @Nate:
      I NEVER said that pride festivals should be banned, just that I do not support them.

      Also I admit that using the term “crossdressers” may have caused offense. I will refrain from using that word again on Queerty.

      @Jason:
      I do not agree. There is little common ground in the gay/lesbian/bi-rights movement, and that of transvestites. Why should we sacrifice our chance of gaining rights (e.g. marriage) simply because T’s are stealing our limelight? They are not well received by the heterosexual majority.

      Feb 23, 2009 at 5:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • moo
      moo

      @Ayden: “There is little common ground in the gay/lesbian/bi-rights movement, and that of transvestites. Why should we sacrifice our chance of gaining rights (e.g. marriage) simply because T’s are stealing our limelight?”

      But the T in GLBT is transsexual, not transvestite, as people have already pointed out here.

      Feb 23, 2009 at 5:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      @Ayden:

      I have NEVER said anything about Mexicans. They – even “illegal” immigrants – are still human beings

      As opposed to the Transgendered…. I get your drift.

      Why should we sacrifice our chance of gaining rights (e.g. marriage) simply because T’s are stealing our limelight?

      You’re supposed to be a lawyer, right? JD from UCLA?

      Does the name “Shannon Minter” ring a bell? Here’s a hint: on the legal team opposing Proposition 8before the California Supreme Court. While you are doing … what, exactly?

      I can understand your spiteful jealousy of someone in the limelight like him. Someone actually doing something about gaining same-sex marriage rights, rather than sitting dotting i’s and crossing t’s on foreclosure memoranda and bills of sale.

      He’s also a Transman. One of those people you wouldn’t give any rights to. You know, the unemployed drug addicts, not someone big and important like you.

      That computer you’re using to send your comments. One of the several inventions that made it possible was a technique invented by Professor Emerita Lynn Conway. She doesn’t deserve any rights either. She’s a woman, after all. And straight. How dare she be famous, while you are in obscurity because you’ve done nothing, accomplished nothing, made nothing, and helped no-one but yourself.

      You conform to every unpleasant stereotype of the privileged Gay White Male. Unwilling to do anything for anyone but yourself. Spiteful, malicious, gynophobic, transphobic, narcissistic, ignorant, lacking talent and insanely jealous of those who actually accomplish anything.

      Feb 23, 2009 at 8:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nate
      Nate

      @Ayden: You said this: ” If anything, I find these festivals degrading and they should be outlawed. ”

      Should be outlawed…..you are fascist, a liar, and not very bright.

      Case closed.

      Feb 23, 2009 at 2:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Battybattybats
      Battybattybats

      I’m a little cranky at the moment… but I think perhaps with good reason.

      Ahem, so Gays have no common ground with Transvestites huh?

      So what was with the Stonewall bar being raided to search for transvestism? People were being arrested for wearing items of the opposites sexes clothing wasn’t it? Wasn’t that what it was all about? My, I think it might have been.

      No common ground? When did Gays stop having to come out? When did the closet cease to exist? When did families stop abandoning and disowning Gays? Cause that all still happens to transvestites.

      And sorry to those who think that crossdressing isn’t transgender but it is. Transgender includes people who aren’t strictly gender binary. Including GenderQueers and Crossdressers!

      Anyone who opposes any groups rights really has no idea at all where rights come from and needs a good long history and philosophy lesson. But here’s the simple version.

      No-one can justly claim any right that they do not allow freely to all others. So if you oppose equal rights for anyone you just destroyed your own claim to your own personal rights! See its cause rights come from the assumption that all should be treated as equalls! If you don’t treat all as equals and fight for all being equals you have no claim to equal rights.

      Laws don’t create rights Ayden, they merely protect them. Philosophy creates rights Ayden. And the revolutions that created modern democracies are based under the presumption that even illegal violent force is an acceptable measure to obtain that equality (French Revolution and American War of Independance).

      So Ayden, you should be glad that I personally am an extreme pacifist (i even refused to fight back at all to the last person to bash me despite the martial arts I did at the time for fitness and fun.. oh maybe that didn’t occur to you either Ayden? That crossdressers, that transvestites, get bashed too?) because you just invalidated even your very claim to a right to life untill you change your mind and support my claim as a ‘transvestite’ a ‘crossdresser’ to every single right and piece of equality you have or desire or believe you should be entitled to. Thats the way it works. The foundation is that equality bit.

      I’m not militant unlike the crossdressers and transvestites and transsexuals and intersex too at Compton and Stonewall whose blood paid for your current freedom to be publicly gay!

      But try reading some philosophy Ayden, read some history. Your claim to any rights are based of the presumption of universal equality just as mine are. If mine or anyone elses is invalid then the whole thing is entirely invalid and we shoulda stuck with the divine right of kings!

      Your ignorant, but with some reading you may wake up to common basic humanity. So get reading and then come back with an apology to me and to all the rest of the crossdressers and transvestites especially those of past generations whose shoulders and backs you didnt even realise you were standing on to get where you are!

      And if you don’t hurry up and fight as hard or harder for a united ENDA including all us transvestites than for any right of your own you’ve ever fought for then you are no better than the very people who chose to deny gay people their rights in the very first place!

      Cause thus far thats exactly what you are! You are personally as bad as those who made the same complaints you do but instead of the word transvestite in your remarks replace it with the word Gay and you will see what you are!

      An Ignorant BIGOT!

      And that I’m afraid Ayden, makes you the embarassment to me not the other way round. So try rising up to my level.

      Feb 26, 2009 at 9:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ayden
      Ayden

      @Battybattybats:

      I’m not going to reply to all of your comments, you’ve written far too much. Just quietly though, (speaking from experience), I would try and restrain the emotive tantrum monster within before tapping on your keyboard.

      I AGREE with you that transvestites/crossdressers/transgenders etc. are one and the same. However I would argue that they damage the GAY, LESBIAN and BI community. The civil rights struggle we face verses that of the T movement is very different.

      I do not oppose any rights for Ts, however they must earn those themselves and not expect others to fight their battles. Doing so suggests that gay men, lesbians or bisexuals support Ts. While we do of course, we cannot support them at the risk of jeopardizing our rights. Sorry.

      I know that many people on Queerty do not think too highly of Tyra Banks (because they’re pretentious and consider e.g. Katie Couric or Anderson Cooper to be superior journalists… they’re all very good), but to reiterate, I DO like the transgender homeless girl they had on the Tyra show. Of course she deserves rights, but she needs to make an effort to earn them: get a job or picket, something. You can’t sleep on the streets and expect everyone to do something for you.

      You can say I’m ignorant or a bigot, but I’m certainly not. I love all people – even transgenders, though I’ll admit I don’t really understand them. I’m like most people there. Unfortunately when people do not understand something, they tend to deny it rights. Sorry. So until more people know the struggles Ts face and why they do, etc. let’s focus first on GLB rights then Ts. I promise to help eventually.

      I know you think I’m a bigot, but I don’t think I am. I’m just pragmatic.

      All the best.

      Feb 26, 2009 at 9:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Battybattybats
      Battybattybats

      Aww Ayden? You mean I shouldn’t get angry when I’m offended?

      Ok, I’ll try being nice to you, though this post too will be long.

      See I don’t damage the GLB community any more than womens rights damaged the black mens vote or lesbians damaged the womens equality movement, while your ‘pragmatism’ (which is choosing to maintain an hypocracy in the ‘equal’) damages the integrity of the GLB community.

      What rights are different Ayden? Read the Yogyakarta Principles. It’s an international Human Rights Law document. It shows that TG rights just like GLB ones are all covered by the basic 60 year old UN declaration of Universal Human Rights. They are in fact the same rights. The problem is now and has always been people deliberatly ignoring that rights are suppossed to cover everyone not just the popular groups of people.

      Strangely enough rather than granting black men and all women the vote etc from the outset hypocrits have been ignoring the equality part, which is why Gays have gone for centuries without equality. Are you fully intending to be that kind of hypocrit too?

      Try looking at TG history. We ‘ve only been made invisible recently, a handful of generations. We were deliberatly whitewashed out, just like gays. And even though TG people were rioting at Compton and Stonewall and marching just like the glb we got pushed aside, ignored and whitewashed over some more.

      Look it up! You’ll find it’s true. Are you going to be complicit in continuing that Ayden?

      You promise to help do you Ayden? I tell you what. Ayden, you can start helping me personally tonight without hurting your gay rights movement in America one iota! Write a letter to whoever is in charge of foreign policy in America to ask them to support Australia’s attempts to have a formal federal bill of rights and urge them to insist that it is fully compliant with the Yogyakarta Principles. Can you do that Ayden? That will help Gay marriage in Australia and TG rights at the same time! Write it up nice and well with all your legal studies training, and after you sent it put up a copy on the net to prove your word.

      Did you know Ayden that the unemployment rate for trassexuals is as high as 50%? Not for lack of qualifications either merely legal job discrimination. So why don’t you donate the cost of one meal a week to a TG organisation or at least a TS accepting shelter?

      Cause Gays are doing far better than transsexuals are right now Ayden so maybe you should leave the marriage advantages till later and do something about the employment discrimination against TGs now? Maybe your the one with the priorities round the wrong way, your going after important but not life-or-death benefits while military veteran transsexuals freeze to death on church doorsteps.

      See people are dying while you are worrying about appearances. And no amount of helping later will make those dead people alive again.

      You have a choice where by action or inaction lives will be effected. You are weighing deaths against hospital visitation and taxes. Sure the vistation rights etc are important, but as important as TS lives?

      Maybe the greatest focus should be on the greatest need? And if you’ve not been doing much to help the GLB cause thus far don’t you think the TG part may need your help more? After all you personally have benefited from the Compton and Stonewall riots. TG people have been part of the GLB movement from the beginning, they just usually go unsung and ignored. So you cant fairly cast out people who were there from the beginning and who you personally have benefited from.

      And even if you disagree about priority now I intend to hold you to that promise. So keep in touch Ayden. Start reading about the history of Human Rights, Thomas Paine and H.G. Wells.. read Julia Serrano, start learning what the TS issues are that you have promised to fight for. Read about the last 12 months TG murder victims, it’s almost the anniversary of Simmie Williams and just gone was that of Letitia King (oh you thought Lawrance King was gay? No, the poor kid who got shot at school was TG! But as usual we are written out of most reports where there could be any possible sympathy for us).

      If your going to come back for me Ayden you can start learning about us right now so when you find its time to start (which was I think some years ago now) you wont be starting to learn from scratch and wasting time while even more people die because of your ‘pragmatism’. I might even be a victim by the time your ready. Could you handle that aAyden? Cause my own life may be saved or lost by your decision!

      People are dying Ayden. And now I’ve told you that and you have the power to google TDOR and check for yourself you are now trapped by a moral dilemma where you could well have blood on your hands if you choose not to act. (google Trolley Dilemma, only were the ones who die if you dont risk your marriage privileges).

      Are you even intending to get married soon Ayden? How many Transgender peoples deaths do you think are worth getting married now rather than delaying that a fee years and saving some lives? Cause if you are not going to get married soon aren’t you buying rights you don’t intend to use while people die waiting for you to fulfill your promise?

      You’ve made a promise now. Do some reading and then drop by my blog and we can discuss it. Hey, here’s an idea. Read Human Rights Lawyer Geoffrey Robertson’s book Statute of Liberty on why Australia should have a bill of rights. I’m reading it now and we can discuss it.. it seems that there is a huge gap in your education on rights and that book might well do to start filling it!

      Feb 26, 2009 at 10:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Boo
      Boo

      “I know you think I’m a bigot, but I don’t think I am.”

      Well yes, Ayden, but you see, bigots never do think they’re bigots. If they were capable of that much self-reflection, they wouldn’t be bigots.

      Feb 27, 2009 at 5:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SA-ET
      SA-ET

      Ayden, is right…kinda. Issues of gender have no place along the side of issues of sexuality.

      Nate says: The guy doesn’t know the difference between transgendered people and “cross-dressers”.

      Actually, Nate, it is you who’s confused. Crossdressers are transgender. IF the transgender want to pursue politics, they should do so with their own movement. Personally, I think for the most part that true transsexuals, in the classic definition not in the transgender colonized one, would rather no political association with either the transgender construct or the GLB.

      If transgender (or transsexuals) feel a need to actively support the GLB they should do so as a gay or lesbian, not as a transgender. To do so implies that all transgender (and transsexuals) or either gay or lesbian and support the GLB…which is absolutely not the case.

      Feb 27, 2009 at 11:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Battybattybats
      Battybattybats

      Hi SA-ET, long time between chats.

      Why do issues of gender have no place alongside issues of sexuality? After all I would have thought that all issues of inequality have a place alongside all other issues of inequality?

      Especially with the long historical tendency to persecute the two groups together as one. As I mentioned before, wasn’t the law used to arrest people at Stonewall and the like an anti-gender-non-conformity law?

      And what about the suggesstion that the discriminations against sexual orientation come from Cis-Hets considering Gays as gender non-conforming in theur sexuality under a false combined Heteronormative + Cisnormative perspective making homophobia and transphobia often merely different expressions of the exact same bigotry?

      Just because one can define different catagories amongst the oppressed does not mean each is oppressed seperately for seperate reasons.

      As for your implication concerns. Your not making much sense. Its like saying that some Catholics who support GLB shouldn’t do so as Catholics cause people might think all Catholics are Gay and all Catholics support GLB… thats a major logic fail right there.
      Should Americans who support Israel for example (or Palestine if you prefer) not do so as Americans?

      No group of people act in 100% unity, nor should anyone from one group refrain from identifying themselves as they identify themselves rather than erasing part of themselves just to placate people in their group who might disagree with them.

      Besides, you suggest TG supporters of GLB should do so as Gays or Lesbians.. well not only are their Bisexual Transgender people but there are also Hetero Transgender people who support GLB! Just like theire are Hetero and Cis allies of GLBT folk.

      Sure there are ‘phobes amongst all groups, bigotry does not exist only in the mainstream. Why should fairminded decent folk leave their personal identities behind to salve the comfort of bigots also within their group? Why should White Southern Americans who support Black American’s civil rights not do so as Southern White Americans? Why should they cede the identity of the group only to those in it who are bigots?

      I shouldn’t call myself Transgender when sticking up for causes every person should support like GLB equality? I don’t think I’ll comply with that one.

      Feb 28, 2009 at 8:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • maxouou007
      maxouou007

      hey. I don’t really take time to read all posts so maybe I’m going to say something that’s already said.
      first transvestite and transexual are not the same thing so stop to use one for the other. then I’m a gay man, I’ve met a lot of transexual people, and most of then said that they don’t feel like belong to de LGBT community for the simple cause that a transexual can be gay or straight, be transgenre have nothing to do with the person you fall for, boys and girl. for now there don’t really care about same sex marriage (exept gay transexual of course) they just want to be who they are inside, male or female. Of course I don’t know everey trnasexual and trnasgenre in the world and their feeling about the LGBT.
      I think that at the beginning the trangender people was put in the LGBT community by straight people who saw a transexual as a lesbian a straight man in a woman body or as a gay a straight woman in a man body.

      PS: sorry if my sentences a not really clear but i’m french and I’m not really fluent in english.

      Mar 1, 2009 at 6:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Battybattybats
      Battybattybats

      Hi Maxouou007

      Unfortunately you got things quite backwards. Straight people didn’t add Transgender to GLBT, Transgender people were right there from the very beginning. They were there at Stonewall and long before that.

      Just some few but loud transphobic people amongst the rest of GLBT keep writing them out, pretending they were never there, pushing them to the fringes and leaving them out of legislative progress, using them as a bargaining chip or expendable pawn in negotiations or even directly opposing them getting equal treatment under the law.

      (and thats the same with TG where some are homophobic, and there are anti-gay lesbians, anti lesbian Gays and anti bi everyone and anti non-bi bisexuals. There are biased folk in every group.)

      Transgender is a part of the gay marriage issue because if a male-to-female transexual is still legally classed as a man and marries a man it’s same sex marriage and if instead they marry a woman but are classed legally as a woman then again its same sex marriage!

      And if the transsexual is already married to a woman when they try and transition then they are often forced to get a divorce so the law doesn’t have to recognise a same-sex marriage!

      So you see TG people of all sexualities have a claim to the same-sex marriage issue.

      Mar 2, 2009 at 3:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • maxouou007
      maxouou007

      thanks for correcting me, like I said I don’t know every transgender in the world (In my previous post I write that i know “a lot of tranasexual” i wanted to write “a few”, its not really the same meaning sorry). I’m still young, I’m twenty and my BFF who used to be my fairy princess but who now going to be my stag hag is 18, so we don’t know every issue. so thanks for the informations, I appreciate that.

      Mar 2, 2009 at 5:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Battybattybats
      Battybattybats

      No worries maxouou007!
      It’s not your fault our part of history has been so often erased. Thanks for being open to new information.

      Mar 2, 2009 at 7:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Audrey
      Audrey

      @Ayden: Ayden, I find your attitude towards transpersons to be the ultimate in stereotypical hypocrisy. One would think an educated, gay person would have some insight as to why transpeople are often homeless street people. But, in reality, your words demonstrate the offensive ignorance that leads to their victimization.

      I’m glad you blend or at least think you do. You know, you might make it easier on yourself if you just jump back into the closet and forget the gay marriage thing. Because, you know, this gay marriage thing polarizes those who would want to deny me my rights.

      Oh, and BTW, I’m a transsexual who passes with ease and have a 25+ year successful, professional career. I find that gay folks like you give me the rest of the TBLG community a bad image. You are just soooo femmy! So, please STFU and go sod off.

      Love,

      Audrey

      Mar 3, 2009 at 9:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MauraHennessey
      MauraHennessey

      Good God.
      You didn’t become an attorney to defend trans-people? Neither did I. For that matter, I did not become a Lesbian activist to defend bugchasing, bathhouses, meth at sex parties or a host of other issues that the Christian Right brings up any time that LGBT rights issues are attacked. Yet, for the sake of the community, for the sake of equality I have done so.

      Trans-issues blocked gay marriage? Hardly. Sodomy and the Bible blocked gay marriage. Accusations of promiscuity blocked gay marriage. LGBT events featuring gay pornstars blocked gay marriage.

      The trans community does not currently love me, but I will defend to the death their pursuit of legal protections for employment and housing. Lesbians are NOT the handmaident of priviledged gay men, we have our own wealthy aristocracy and for the most part they are less disdainful of the rest of the community than you are.

      Mar 6, 2009 at 7:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zoe Brain
      Zoe Brain

      Maura,

      Thanks.

      Mar 6, 2009 at 11:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @Ayden:

      @Nate:
      I NEVER said that pride festivals should be banned, just that I do not support them.”

      But you did, Blanche. You did! Lie a lot, do you?

      From your Post No. 59:

      “Just because I happen to like boys does not mean I must be effeminate or participate in pride parades. If anything, I find these festivals degrading and they should be outlawed.”

      Mar 8, 2009 at 4:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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