[Charlie Rounds is managing director at Out Think Partners, where he leads efforts to improve the lives of LGBT people globally. Charlie served for more than three years in Peace Corps Cameroon. He lives in Minneapolis with his husband.]
Last week I attended a breakfast with Prime Minister Rugunda of Uganda. The Humphrey Institute of the University of Minnesota had invited a few of us to hear him talk about development initiatives, as well as peace and security issues in Uganda and Southern Africa. The Prime Minister was encouraged to visit the University by the current US Ambassador who is a native Minnesotan and graduate of the University. Knowing that there was a strong human rights contingency in the room I mostly wanted to see how he would react when the anti-homosexuality law was brought up. I was tense but pleased when we were all asked to state our names and what we did before the Prime Minister spoke: Charlie Rounds. I am a consultant for companies and governments on global LGBT rights issues.
During his talk the Prime Minister focused on the improving health situation of Ugandans including the drop in infant mortality, much more successful tactics against malaria and HIV, as well as the defeat of war lords who had inflicted incredible damage on the people of Uganda. While he was talking, all I could think about was that normally I would be thrilled to hear this (I spent years living in Africa as a Peace Corps volunteer) but I was very conflicted. On one hand I very much want the people of Uganda to lead healthier, happy lives. On the other I have seen the videos, heard the recordings, and read the writings of Ugandans who have made life hell for their LGBT brothers and sisters. Quite frankly if the Ugandan Supreme Court had not struck down the Anti-homosexuality bill – life would be even worse for our community there.
Once he finished speaking it was opened up for Q&A and I very much wanted to NOT ask the gay question as I felt it would be more effective coming from someone else. Fortunately a professor of human rights at the University asked: “Mr. Prime Minister – my human rights students’ number one concern is the treatment of LGBT people globally – please tell us what is going on in Uganda around LGBT rights?” The Prime Minister came back with what we hear all of the time – that it is “the West” that has brought the laws – either the British through their colonial “buggery” statutes – or currently the American Evangelicals who helped craft the actual bill. This really was not easy to hear and made me question who is running Uganda – [Antigay U.S. evangelical] Scott Lively, Henry the VIII, or President Museveni?
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To use the lives of the most vulnerable of your people for political gain is wrong – I criticize it when the Tea Party does it here with food stamps and basic health care for the working poor – and I have to criticize it in Uganda where our community has suffered because of the anti-homosexuality law.
In the end the Prime Minister explicitly expressed that the worst was over and that cooler heads needed to, and would prevail. He stated that homosexuals had always lived in Uganda and always would and if foreign influences on each side could just stay out that the people of Uganda would be able to find a path forward that could, and should, improve the lives of the LGBT community.
I think that all of us want a better life for all Ugandans. I actually do think that through dialogue we can achieve this. Mark Twain stated “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.” Prime Minister Rugunda is less prejudice after traveling to Minnesota and I believe that if we can safely take more and more openly LGBT people, our friends, and families to Uganda – we also can be less prejudiced.
So my hope is that, in fact, the worst is over, and that as LGBT Americans we can lead the way in improving the lives of all Ugandans – but “all” must mean “all.”
blessingyou
Thoughtful commentary on meaningful issues. I appreciate reading an article like this on Queerty–more please! Although the author’s optimism may be ill founded based on one conversation with one politician in a pressured atmosphere, it is certainly a salient point that the West has had a significant influence in the shaping of this dynamic.
darian
The same westerners that go to places like Uganda, the Dominican Republic,and other developing countries and preach vile trash and spend tax free church profits to influence the politics of these countries only do to make themselves feel superior. If they really cared for them places like this would be bastions’ of the world. Look at there own mega churches and the Vatican.
Realitycheck
Nations are like people they need to grow AS their people becomes
more educated.
And when there is poverty, there is little money for educations and
social problems abound.
So while it is true the west did bring the anti gay concept with christianity,
it is more true that only by making Uganda a richer industrialized country,
its people will become more educated, and in so doing solving many of their social problems.
Giancarlo85
@blessingyou: Well the truth is the Prime Minister in Uganda has little power… Most of the decision making is centered on Museveni himself.
The antihomosexuality bill was pushed by the US Christian right with strong support from Museveni. This type of bill was linked to US based group “The Family”, a right wing religious group with strong ties to many Republicans. So you get a clear picture of what many right wing religious nuts want. They want us in prison or executed. This is no laughing matter.
Realitycheck
@darian:
Darian, all human societies work the same, it is pointless to blame
the outsider, human society is a pyramid, it always was, and it always will be.
There are sheep at the bottom and a commander at the top, with various
middle levels.
As far as churches and other organizations, it is the same human concept,
for example if you remove a church, people will create a new type of
organization, why?
Because most people do not want to think for themselves, they are sheep
and need to be told what to do, and there are always people ready to take advantage.
And violence and oppression are closely related to: lack of education,
poverty and fanatic believes, bottom line if Uganda people are violent against
gay people, is not because of the west but because they need some
education that will lift their entire society……….
Remember, people are responsible for their own actions.
Realitycheck
@Giancarlo85:
Fortunately Museveni is 70 and soon or later will be removed from power,
but what ever support or push he received from the USA, in the end,
it is the Ugandan people that allow any of this to happen, you are dealing
with a society that like Jamaica (for example) still holds on to primitive
believes.
Giancarlo85
@Realitycheck: We have many in the US that hold similar primitive beliefs. And who will replace Museveni? Probably someone else from his ruling party who thinks the same thing.
I think the only real progressive country on the continent is South Africa.
Realitycheck
@Giancarlo85:
You are absolutely right, this is going to be a long and slow fight to
change people mentality, basically Uganda will do the same things Europe
and USA are doing, it is a huge shame so many people have to suffer
for others stupidity.
Merv
Gay Ugandans won’t be safe until Christianity is defanged. We must never lose sight of the fact that it is Christianity and Islam that are the main external threats to gay people in pretty much every country in the world.
Kangol
@Giancarlo85: Don’t forget Mozambique, which just decriminalized homosexuality and gay sex.
Queerty for whatever reason will not report on it, but Mozambique’s former president, Joaquim Chissano, had advocated for this move for years, and it finally came into effect having been signed into law by the now retired president Armando Guebuza last fall.
As a Ugandan friend reminded me last week, the country had gay kings and gay people, without any issue, for generations. The last major king of Uganda was openly gay.
The British colonial administration outlawed homosexuality and applied Britain’s harsh anti-gay laws, which have led to legal anti-gay legislation everywhere they took root (from the US, where LGBTQ were burned at the stake, and homosexual sex was illegal in many states until 2003!, to Jamaica, to China, to India, to Egypt, to yes, Nigeria and Uganda).
There is a long tradition of accepting same-sexual identity and behavior in western, central, southern, and south central Africa, as a number of scholars have shown. People condemning African homophobia should learn a bit more. It often was woven into the fabric of religions like those of the Yoruba, for example, or the Congo.
White Western evangelical Christianity, which is well-funded, is creating a horrible situation for people in sub-Saharan Africa, and it needs to be driven out, because people are dying as a result of it.
AtticusBennett
white american evangelicals Scott Lively and Rick Warren traveled to Uganda and helped fan the flames of anti-gay hatred.
Fittingly, Rick Warren’s own closeted-gay son took his own life. Took a gun, and blew his brains out. Congrats, Rick Warren; after years of having a hand in the deaths of countless LGBT people, you succeeded in killing your own son.
Chris
Western evangelicals may have crafted the laws, they were still passed by Uganda’s Parliament with the support of its President for life. Those laws are still being enforced by that country’s police and military.
So, we can support people inside of Uganda who wish to do away with these laws; and also, we can publicly confront and oppose people like Lively and Warren.
In the meantime, I have no intention of traveling anywhere where simply being gay can get you killed … not going to happen; wouldn’t be prudent.
@AtticusBennett: how much do you want to bet that the heartless b*st*rd Warren is actually unmoved his son’s suicide?
Giancarlo85
@Kangol: I believe Rwanda also decriminalized homosexuality. I am not sure if Paul Kagame is a big supporter of gay people though. He is working hard to modernize the country from the articles I have seen, but there are lingering questions about his past particularly for his role during the genocide.