Gays in Iraq are used to fearing for their lives, or at least their anuses. (That is not supposed to be funny.) But could an anti-gay “Radical Iraqi Shiite cleric” be their best hope for now?
Moqtada Sadr, 35, isn’t pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes: He thinks gays are disgusting. The fact that they are attracted to the same sex reeks of “depravity,” he says. But all this violence toward them? It must stop.
“Al-Sadr rejects this type of violence … and anyone who commits violence (against gays) will not be considered as being one,” says spokesman Sheikh Wadea al-Atabi.
What’s this? Rabid anti-gay religious types insisting his followers do not resort to violence against homos? Indeed. Rather than glue their anuses shut, or simply murder them, al-Atabi says “the only remedy to stop it is through preaching and guidance. There is no other way to put an end to it.”
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Is this just lip service, or is Moqtada Sadr actually serious about condemning violence against gays? You won’t be faulted for thinking it’s just a press-friendly tactic; violence against Iraq’s gay and transgender communities is believed to be sanctioned at both the state and religious levels. Police have been tied to anti-gay violence, and so have religious fundamentalists.
That, and Sadr is not the anti-violence type. In fact, the fella is infamous for his calls for violence; he’s a staunch opponent to America’s involvement in Iraq and “called anew for Iraqis to violently rise up against U.S. security forces. A U.S. helicopter was shot down in fighting that shattered a two-month ceasefire. Continued violence has left untold numbers dead.”
But for now, without the Iraqi government doing much to solve the problem, nor U.S. diplomats even addressing the situation, it appears the only real hope for Iraq’s GLBTs is, well, trusting Sadr and his legions are men of their word.
christophe
the best thing that we, the USA, can do for Iraqi gays is get out of their country and leave them alone.
dgz
@christophe: no, the best thing we could do is offer them asylum.
as for Sadr, of course you can trust this statement! radical clerics are not ones to parse words or cater to liberal media. do i think he’s a good guy? um, no. but i’m not looking this gift-horse in the mouth.
Tony
Wow. A radical Shite Cleric is more openly addressing LGBT issues than our savior Nobama. Who wuddathunkit?
Bri
“preaching and guidance”
So…I take it he’s for verbal abuse but not physical abuse.
This is weird.
Anonymous
The next time LOGO shows the movie “Trembling before God” you might want to set your dvd recorders to record it. Jews are not the most tolerant people on earth toward gays either.
Look at how many jewish rabbis feel toward jewish gay men and women.
dgz
@Anonymous: off topic.
naprem
Of course, he’s still missing the basic point that it’s not anything that needs ending, either by violence or preaching. But at least it’s a small step in the right direction – assuming it can be believed.
Tallskin
Trust him?
Fuck the bastard.
Digs at religion in general aside for the moment, let’s be specific here.
Islam is a religion that is based on the teachings of a man, Mohammed, who had a 9 year old wife (he married her at age 6 but didn’t ‘touch her’ until she was 9, so he was obviously fucking the child). He launched war-parties (of the flashing sword and lots of blood variety, rather than the type with Trance music blaring out) against tribes around him. He ordered captured prisoners to have their hands cut off so they bled to death, and he ordered their eyes to be burnt with hot irons. He killed thousands of people.
Yet, and here is the irony, the religion of peace that he set up finds immoral and disgusting the idea of two men making love!
Am I missing something?
The Gay Numbers
I wonder if this is pressure behind the scenes regarding diplomatic efforts? Needless to say, I agree with the need to grant assylum. We already offer such assylum to those who can make it here under a decision by Janet Reno that Obama still endorses. The question is whether many realize we offer such assylum for sexual orientation or whether they would want to move.
edgyguy1426
But the Jews do have some reform sects which are more tolerant and have officiated at gay weddings and civil unions etc. I don’t know of many Muslim gay weddings…… so I don’t know why the Jews were brought into this argument..but are closer to Christians where different levels of acceptance exist depending on which sect you belong to.
This is a statement by some Reform rabbis on the California Assembly’s passage of gay marriage:
Rabbis Berk and Henkin: The Reform Jewish Movement has long been committed to welcoming gay and lesbian Jews into our congregations, synagogues and communal life… The Assembly’s vote is a powerful and necessary declaration that people should not be excluded from the institution of marriage and related benefits based on their sexual orientation.
Alec
@Tallskin: Wow, he sounds like the God of the ancient Hebrews!
@The Gay Numbers: I think the majority of the applications are being steered towards European countries. Not quite sure why, if it is logistical or legal, but someone mentioned that a while back.
Alec
@edgyguy1426: We’re getting off topic here, but I’d like to point out that while the American Reform movement is very open and tolerant, the European movement is far less so, from what I’ve read.
Regardless, who the hell cares? In my opinion they’re all vile religions at base that support “values” that need to be kept out of and away from state policy.
Nickadoo
Don’t Bash, Don’t Kill?
Tallskin
I don’t know if anyone’s interested – and yes I know it is off topic – but muslims and islam are the most reactionary force against gays in the UK. Luckilly they, as a group, are about as popular in the UK as Fred Phelps is in the USA, so anything they say or advocate tends to produce the opposite reaction to what they intend.
Examples:
1) The UK govt want to introduce basic sex education for 5 year olds and up- this would include facts about same-sex relationships. The muslims are up in arms about this, organising campaigns against it.
2) A british soap, Eastenders on the BBC, is about to introduce a gay muslim, who has an affair with a white gay english man. Again, Muslims are up in arms about this, calling it a defamation against islam blah fucking blah.
But don’t take my word for it, take a look at this “moderate muslim” (an oxymoron, if ever there was one) website for british muslim opinion on the subject.
http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/5700/102/
http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=42472goto=newpost
To return to topic, if this is the (rabid) opinion of muslims living in the UK, then what the fuck must be the opinion of muslims living in the middle east????
strumpetwindsock
@Anonymous:
@dgz:
Good choice.
I’d also recommend “The Fog of War”, especially the first lesson in the movie: Empathize with your enemy.
@The Gay Numbers:
And I can’t imagine he would be doing this out of the goodness of his heart, but he is ostensibly the one in control of a very large faction, and if he can make it happen, I am inclined to take it at face value.
After all, if he has to make that statement at all it means he probably doesn’t think he can win without compromise.
kevin (not that one)
It’s unusual that al-Sadr’s spokesperson would issue such a statement on his behalf. It means, I think, that pressure from the outside might be having some influence. Al Sadr obviously would like to be in a future leadership position in Iraq and this may be his opportunity at playing the politician.
His religious fundamentalist enemies, Al Qaeda, operating in Iraq are likely using this statement as a sign of al Sadr’s (and by extension, the Shiite community) moral weakness.
If my choice was between the Sunni extremists (organized by Al Qaeda) and the Shiite extremists (led by al Sadr), I’d take the lip service of al Sadr, even if I found it unbelievable.
By the way, there were LGBT anti-war groups in the US and abroad (there was a group called “Out Against the War”) back in 2003 who explicitly said that an invasion of Iraq would jeopardize the LGBT citizens of that country by destabilizing the country and opening it up to religious extremists. As far as I know, those groups were ignored by the inappropriately named “Human Rights Campaign.”
Too bad they were right.
AbdulCanuck
The Muslim Canadian Congress has long supported equal marriage.
This article from their website was posted over four years ago:
http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/20050210.pdf
I think Sadr can be taken at his word. His supporters, however, might be less, er, devout. He might not have as much control over them as he would like to believe he has.
sal(the original)
well im sure for all the local gays its a good start,the violence(and im sure they face REAL VIOLENCE) is a very important problem ……now it seems there is some understanding that they are humans and not animals(nothing against animals lol)…NO WAY is it perfect…..but im sure this is allot for him to say this
edgyguy1426
@AbdulCanuck: Thanks for the link, AbdulCanuck, that was a very interesting article. I was chatting with my friend yesterday; we were wondering about how European countries with increasing Muslim populations that had same sex marriage or civil unions were dealing with the issue. Thanks, again! Jim
The Gay Numbers
@Alec: I have heard that was the case for many seeking asylum as well. I have a problem with that because I know Europe is not exactly the most inviting with keeping people there when theycome from Muslim countries.
The Gay Numbers
Re Islam
I think a large part of this is a product of anti-democratic forces as the west understands it. I am not saying that we are perfect. We aren’t. We are really fucked up too given the influence of radical religion here and abroad in the West. My point is that you do find moderate Muslims in the U.S. Indeed, the one Muslim in Congress right now supports gay rights, including I believe either civil unions or marriage (I can not remember which). My point is that the fundamentalism and radicalism may not be the entire picture. It may be difficult to see that given the anti-liberal democratic principles involved in the Middle East and indeed in Europe where these communities are not integrated into the larger European culture.
Alec
@The Gay Numbers: No, it isn’t. Although I don’t know that the US is a better option. And in the most tolerant European countries (like the Netherlands), there’s a gay Arabic community for them to fall back on.
Inukumaru
This gay novel has pretty extreme views about religion and being gay all done in a sci-fi style sory, the writer was even almost killed when this book was first published. After being banned in his own country it is now available.
check the plot – As predicted by Isaac Newton the second coming happened and as the world waited to see what was about to happen an appointed man was sent to meet God, hours later God had vanished and the man came out immortal; no apocalypse, no destruction and no salvation. This gave birth to a chain of holy wars that almost chattered Earth’s civilizations and so giving birth to a mass colonization of planets to ensure peace by separation. Thousands of years later all was at peace by until Endings were born; humans connected to their planets in such a way that they are capable of destroying them should they wish it. Now Earth’s Ending has been born and the day to pass judgment draws near.
it can be found here
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/sodoms-x–a-song-for-the-end-/7182389
Apart from that it is very hard to find
Anonymous
@Tallskin: Go on. Go on. Don’t stop there. Tell it all.
While we are on the subject of religious leaders and murderers tell us about Moses and how many he killed.
Anonymous
Personally I do not think al-Sadr said this. If he did there would be a direct quote and a video I am sure. This would literally knock the socks off of his Iranian sponsors.
Nahh, he didn’t say this. This is his spokesman talking.
mb00
Fuck NO!!! I don’t trust our own government let alone one in the middle east with such a history of blatant violence.
Dennis
Well, he sure is better than that evil homophobe Barack Obama…I mean, anybody, ANYBODY would be better than Obama, right? Really, why can’t we have Moqtada Sadr as our president? He would be able to repeal DADT on his first day in office. He would have placed suicide bombers at polling places to prevent people from voting for prop 8, I know he would. I bet if we asked, he’d host a circuit party at the White House…
God, that would be sooo fucking fabulous! He’s just the kind of leader we need…
tavdy79
Jews are not the most tolerant people on earth toward gays either. – Anonymous
Yet they voted overwhelmingly against Prop 8…
The Gay Numbers
@tavdy79: This is pretty ignorant of the Jewish faith. Yes- because most of the faith in America is reform. There are also conservative and orthodox Jews. The conversation regarding fundamentalist belief is referencing those ouside of the U.S. and how they see homosexuality.
Rob Moore
Trust? Seriously? I would no more trust him than I would the Pope or Fred Phelps. It takes a lot more than sermons and lip service to bring trust. He thinks we reek of perversion. He is one sentence shy of calling for our extermination. I consider all religions to be basically evil, but the Abrahamaic family of religions are particularly vile. Perhaps a couple million of us should descend on Mecca and Jerusalem and “defile” both of them. The priests are already doing that for us in Rome.