A bloody and murderous month in Iraq left six gay men dead in two separate incidents. The deaths were incited by Shiite cleric Sattar al-Battat, who condemned homosexuality during recent Friday prayers.
This past month’s violence underscores that LGBT Iraqi’s are increasingly unsafe as American forces turn over authority to the Iraqi government. With no assistance from the Iraqi government (which outlaws homosexuality) or U.S. Forces, gay and lesbian Iraqi’s are mounting a net-centric underground railroad, raising funds to move gays and lesbians in harm’s way out of the country.
Thus far, the action has been small and homegrown– but as this weekend proves, the time has come for American LGBT people and civil rights groups to get involved.
Anti-gay violence out of control
How about we take this to the next level?
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In Baghdad’s Shiite slum known as Sadr City, two gay men were found Thursday shot to death after their families disowned them and tribal meeting led to a decision to kill the men, according to an anonymous official at Iraq’s Interior Ministry who went on to confirm 4 more deaths in the neighborhood on March 26. In those earlier cases, the bodies of the men were found with the words “pervert” and “puppy” written on their chest. “Puppy” is slang for homosexual in Iraq. Witnesses also told CNN that a Sadr City Cafe known as an LGBT gathering place was set on fire.
Sadr City is home to to a majority of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army militia group. The group was responsible for attacks against American forces prior to a cease-fire in May 2008. According to an A.P. report:
“Sheik Ammar al-Saadi, a cleric at al-Sadr’s office, denied any involvement by the Mahdi army in the killings. He said the Mahdi Army was only urging people to stop practicing homosexuality.
“Such people have brought shame on Sadr city people,” he told The Associated Press. “The blame falls on the security forces who do little to combat this phenomenon or to stop the flow of pornography materials into Iraq.”
It’s clear the situation in Iraq is deteriorating for gays and lesbians as the nation stabilizes. Human rights activist Peter Tatchell recently told the UK’s Guardian:
“Queers are being shot dead in their homes, streets and workplaces. Even suspected gay children are being murdered.
“The killers claim to be doing these assassinations at the behest of the ‘democratic’ Iraqi government, in order to eradicate what they see as immoral, unIslamic behaviour,” he explains.
“This programme of targeted murders has one aim, according to the death squads: the total eradication of all queers from Iraq. It is, in effect, a form of sexual cleansing. The killers boast that most ‘sodomites’ have already been eliminated.”
Furthermore, gay Iraqi’s don’t just have to fear angry mobs, but the government as well. Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death and 128 gays and lesbians are on death row and the government has plans to begin executing them in batches of 20.
The LGBT group saving Iraqi lives on a shoestring
In comparison to the orchestrated extermination of gays and lesbians in Iraq, the West has offered little in the way of support. Amnesty International has demanded the names of Iraqi LGBT prisoners to little effect.
Watch a short documentary on the sexual cleansing in Iraq:
In reality, the movement to protect LGBT Iraqi’s is a one-man operation. Ali Hili runs a site called Iraqi LGBT, which serves as the West’s doorway to his efforts to save the lives of his countrymen and women. Since 2006, Hili has coordinated with outside groups and sympathizers in Iraq to set-up a series of safe houses to help gay and lesbian Iraqi’s escape the country. Hili told Pink News UK earlier this year:
“We have also assisted people to escape from Iraq to neighbouring countries, where we have established resettlement projects. Our efforts have got gay refugees registered with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), and we’ve already moved some of them a third safer country, in Europe or North America. These lucky ones are now beginning to rebuild their lives”
Money is a problem for the group. Three of the safe houses in Baghdad closed last year due to a lack of funds and as violence against gays and lesbians increase, so do the demands put on the group.
The site’s fundraising efforts are modest. The site asks:
“Donate to our PayPal Account : [email protected]
Or make cheque payable to (IRAQI LGBT) send it to our address:
Iraqi Lgbt
22 Notting Hill Gate
Unit 111
London,W11 3JE
United KingdomFriends can send Donations to IRAQI LGBT:The immediate urgent priority is to Support and Donate Money to LGBT activists in Iraq in order to assist their efforts to help other Lesbians, Gay, Bisexuals and Trans gender Iraqi’s facing death, persecution and systematic Targeting by the Iraqi Police and Badr and Sadr Militia and to raise awareness about the wave of homophobic murders in Iraq to the outside world.Funds raised will also help provide LGBTs under threat of killing with refuge in the safer parts of Iraq (including safe houses, food, electricity, medical help) and assist efforts help them seek refuge in neighboring countries.”
A call to action
This is not enough. We are calling on LGBT organizations to open their wallets and fund this effort. Whether you agree with the war or not, the U.S. gays and lesbians have a moral responsibility to step in.
The U.S. government is unlikely to interfere in an internal Iraqi matter and we can think of no greater cause worth the LGBT community’s time and focus.
Gays and lesbians enjoyed a relative degree of freedom and tolerance under Saddam Hussein’s secular Baathist regime. Since its fall, as we’ve pointed out, life has become a living hell for Iraqi gays and lesbians. Often, when other country’s target gays and lesbians, there is little we as Americans can do. Here, we are presented with a clear way of making a difference in the lives of gays and lesbians who face not just persecution, but execution and death for being gay.
There’s a rally Monday in San Francisco, but protests half a world away are not enough. A failure to take up this issue would be a black mark on any national LGBT organization. They have the resources and they have the organizational capability to fund Iraqi LGBT’s life-saving efforts. The Human Rights campaign donated $7 million to the Prop. 8 campaign. We ask them to match that amount for this effort. We hope other LGBT groups will be similarly generous. As important as gay marriage and other civil rights issues in this country are, the life-and-death struggle in Iraq is, quite simply, more important and, as this weekend proves, more urgent.
We’re asking our loyal Queerty readers to write into LGBT organizations they have donated to and ask them to get involved and to spread the word around. This issue has been barely covered by the mainstream press, but it’s an issue that we can not afford to ignore.–Japhy Grant
rickroberts
My money is on its way. This is yet another example of how religion poisons everything. We are in the fucking 21st century, and this shit is still happening. It’s fucking sickening and could very well happen in this country with these fucking christian taliban in our own midst. We need to throw off the yoke of religion once and for all and embrace modernity.
Dawster
i don’t know if GIVING money is the answer. i think taking money away is better…
this is… appalling to say the least. When Iran hanged our gay brother after saying it would not – that was a government decision. this is more of a localized “tribe” issue. this is more difficult to handle, especially for us in the USA because many of our communities still allow homo-bashers and killers to run free.
i’m so upset by this i can’t even think. this is sick. when oh when can we start banning religion? this is so disgustingly sad it should cause every homo to want to rise up and take a stand.
rickroberts
@Dawster: I share your frustration, but giving money is the only way I know this late at night to help get perhaps only one out of that forsaken situation – to squirrel him or her out of the country to safety.
Bill Perdue
@rickroberts: This is nothing new. It’s the result of the US invasion and occupation and nothing else. They were religious before the invasion but not murderers.
To facilitate it’s grab for oil the US arms and trains both Sunni police and Shiite militia to target one another’s communities for ethnic cleansing. Divide and rule. Both found time to hunt down, humiliate torture and murder GLBT folks. One young man, 14 years old, was hacked to pieces for being effeminate. (Not all that different from the murder of King a little over a year ago.)
http://www.blackvoices.com/boards/news-and-sports/bvcaucus/bv-caucus/-/28424/message/1
When Obama took office he inherited the mantle of war criminal from Bush who got it from Clinton, the ever so heroic mass murderer of half a million Iraqi children. Watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf83udJfbMs ONLY if you have a strong stomach – it’s horrific.
That’s why it’s unlikely that Obama will do anything meaningful to end this problem. The terrible inter communal strife in Iraq is just what the US government and military want because it divides Iraq while Texaco/Chevron and others establish hegemony over its petrochemical industries.
What Obama should do is order an immediate airlift to safety and asylum for everyone threatened with persecution, jail, torture and death and he should do the same for threatened GLBT folk in Jamaica, Uganda, Afghanistan, Poland and Nigeria. But he won’t, not in a millions years. Nor will he take even basic steps like ordering order Hillary Clinton to broadcast that US embassies and consulates everywhere in the world have an open arms policy towards granting asylum and protection for GLBT folks in danger of violence.
These easy humanitarian steps will never be taken. The US wants instability in the region. That’s why there are over a million dead in Iraq. That’s why the US finances zionist ethnic cleansing in Palestine and why the murder of civilians is increasing in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The dreadful truth is that dead GLBT folks are just ‘collateral damage to Obama and the Pentagon.
But you’re right, we should all send what money we have to help out.
Dale
Nice democracy, George.
epluribusunumjk
Fucking sick. And, I hate fucking religion.
Luis Montalvo
Is there any way Bill Perdue can be banned from this site? His comments are rife with macabre and innane opinions.At least he should be required to resume his meds before posting.For your information Bill , little by little your Islamic friends are encroaching on the freedoms of American society as you know it.Check out the undisclosed victims in Dearborn.
Bill Perdue
@<a href=”@Luis Montalvo: For your information Bill , little by little your Islamic friends are encroaching on the freedoms of American society as you know it.
I’m not muslim, but I do, unlike you, want to save the lives of GLBT folks in islamist countries. Which is why I oppose warlords like Clinton, Bush and Obama. Nor do I subscribe to theories of an islamist ‘plot’. That kind of garbage thinking comes from the tradition of Goebbels anti-Semitic slanders about non-existent Jewish plots against Germans. It was garbage then and its garbage now.
If you’re too dim to argue with the facts and analysis I present then I suppose all that’s left for you are insipid personal attacks. BTW, was it my idea to pressure Obama to open up embassies and consulates to LGBT refugees and to airlift them here with full asylum that you found so “inane and macabre.” Or do you have the bigoted opinion that muslims should not be allowed in the US?
As for your fictional American democracy tell that little tale to native Americans, to the 5 million working people fired in the last few months and to the million or so Iraqis murdered by the US.
You paytriots are a real piece of work.
#comment-142125”>Luis Montalvo:
Brian Miller
Is there any way Bill Perdue can be banned from this site? … your Islamic friends are encroaching on the freedoms of American society
Oh, the irony.
bigjake75
@Brian Miller: lol, very funny. However…methinks mr. perdue does need to double up on the meds…dude..relax.
However, do research the shit that goes on in Dearborn, MI. it is one fucked up city. U don’t think radical islam has a hold in the US? OH, IT DOES>
Jeff Phillips
Giving the money is the best way as it will strength the stand of our brothers and sisters and enable them to fight and exist and leave the country, money is always been THE POWER.
This just reminds me of the Harvey Milk situation, we need to stand up as a gay nation together for each other in hard times, our enemy is one, and it is Homophobia.
Please try to help these people, they are in our conscious.
I already sent what I could, not much but I feel I have done something to help.
http://iraqilgbtuk.blogspot.com/
Bill Perdue
O jeez, another admirer.
If you post long enough you’ll be chased by your own little posse of Obamabots and you can figure out your own way of dealing with them. As a rule I just demand that they address the politics. They get pissed because I’m for immediate withdrawal, and an end to support for zionist ethnic cleansing or anyone’s anti-Semitism. About the only time I really get off on someone is when straights come on here and accuse gay men of being child molesters. http://www.queerty.com/morning-goods-colter-johnson-20090203/
What seems to make the liberals and Obamabots so angry is that I tell them that their support for Obama means that they own ‘gawd’s in the mix”, his escalation of the racist war in SW Asia and the fact that he’s a lapdog for big business. They’re as responsible as he is. They don’t like that at all but it’s true. (Not so much for people who got duped into voting for him or McCain but their apologists.)
If you think that’s crazy then that’s you problem, not mine.
I don’t like religious islamists, but I don’t think they do anything that even approaches the crimes committed by Obama’s war, by his being a lap-dog for business and by christer bigots. In the US at least; Iraq, Iran, etc. are a different story but most of that wouldn’t be happening if it weren’t for the US effort to steal their oil.
Now tell me, what is going on in Dearborn? Are the islamist mullahs and imams anti-GLBT? I wouldn’t be surprised, they’re religious. But does that justify the murder of a million Iraqis’ or Palestinians? Does their bigotry pose the same level of threat as christers like the mormons, the southern baptists or the roman cult? Are their opinions as anti-GLBT as those of Clinton and Obama, Dubois or Daughtry, or McCain and Palin.
Chitown Kev
Ok, this is a Metro Times story from 2006. And yes, I understand it’s difficult to be Arab and gay.
http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=9169
But what is going on in Dearborn?
InExile
We will never be able to help LGBT people in other countries until we as a community are truly equal and free here at home. When is the march on Washington for equality?
Bill Perdue
@InExile: hopefully soon, and hopefully more than one.
Jack
Who has time to fight for genuine human rights? We’re too busy getting hysterical over the semantics of ‘marriage’ vs. ‘civil union’.
Bill Perdue
@Chitown Kev:
Thanks. Klein’s story was full of detail about the bigotry of islam and I hope that’s common knowledge. She also reported on the difficult but determined fight of muslim youth against it.
That process is common where superstition and religion still have a hold on people’s lives, especially immigrants who are caught between anti-LGBT bigotry in their neighborhoods and rampant islamophobia outside their community. There was an explosion of anti-Muslim and anti-Arab sentiment in the gay community after 9/11,” said Abdullah…” That hasn’t gone away.
http : // www . globalgayz .com / Muslimgay-news98-02 . html
One of the motive of people coming to the US is to escape discrimination so these anti-GLBT religious attitudes often don’t pass too far beyond the first generation. It reminds me more than a little of the problems GLBT folks and women face in some Southwest immigrant communities. And it’s not nearly as bad as being LGBT in many baptist, catholic, pentecostal and LDS families.
The point is that it’s not one particular cult that’s to blame but religion itself. Its religion, which is virtually without exception composed of equal doses of superstition and bigotry, that’s the enemy. Those who pander to it, like Obama, invariably always end up being on the side of the bigots just as Clinton and Bush did.
And it their cases it’s compounded by the crimes of mass murder of muslims to steal their oil.
Heres a list of good websites
http : // www . al-bab . com / arab / background / gay . htm
Dawster
@rickroberts: perhaps you are right. i guess i’m blinded by rage at the moment. i keep thinking… give money… TO DO WHAT?
in the case of Iran, the situation was on the world stage… every major human rights organization was on board and watching. the entire world had it’s ear to Iran. hell, it was even front page news on CNN.com.
but then, under the cover of darkness, Iran went ahead and killed the guy anyway. period. done. no more. all the money in the world to all the major human rights organizations didn’t do a damn thing. my gut fell to the floor.
what i’m saying is that this is not JUST an Iraqi problem. these are local groups and the local viewpoints have to change – and i don’t know if that’s possible. they are also still trying to kill EACH OTHER, mind you. signing petitions won’t do shit. but the relocation program IS something that i FULLY support.
in other words, after my own rant… i will be donating money as well…
🙂
paul canning
Really, really pleased to see this call to support Iraqi LGBT. I just hope that US orgs pick this up.
One important point is something I make in my take on this [http://paulcanning.blogspot.com/2009/04/does-hillary-know-this-man.html]: organisations like the United Nations and IGLHRC must investigate Iraqi LGBT’s claims as a matter of urgency and provide corroboration, otherwise it is all too easy for them to be dismissed.
What they are claiming is that the pogram is *sponsored* by the Iraqi government:
“Iraqi LGBT claims that the government since mid December 2008 has “a mass campaign to [eliminate] homosexuality”. They say they have “many eyewitnesses” and that “members of the police and ministry of interior forces is actually involved on the mass arrest and taking suspects of homosexuality off the streets to unknown destination”.”
This is why there is an urgency.
Scott
Regarding the quote that reads, “Homosexuality is a crime punishable by death and 128 gays and lesbians are on death row and the government has plans to begin executing them in batches of 20” I am curious from where this information comes. I saw it referenced in the previous story as well.
At the same time, I’ve read comments by Human Rights Watch’s Scott Long, which suggest that the claim that all of those 128 death row inmates are gay, instead of the more reasonable number given by Iraqi LGBT (5-6). If those numbers are actually made up, it seems bad for the cause as well as the people that are not actually gay on death row.
Chitown Kev
@Bill Perdue:
No problem, Bill.
I’ve dated a Muslim or 2 (maybe 3) in my lifetime. And I am also a Detroit native. The “DL” phenomenon is as big in Muslim communities as it is in black communities.
Bill Perdue
@Chitown Kev: DL seems pretty common among all gay men in the US.
When I was pretending to be in college and organzing for the Vietnam antiwar movement I dated a few guys from Arab countries. None of them really wanted go home. I went to a going home party for a young Saudi guy and it was like a wake; people were very sad for him.
Chitown Kev
@Bill Perdue:
Yeah, I dated an Egyptian in my first semsester of college. He was very conscious about how masculine he was, at times. We stayed close while I was in school but we were gay bashed.
The bashing also had a hint of racism to it. The bashers were black as I am black. I had a few scratches and bruises but was otherwise OK, he had to be taken to the hospital, a police report was filed, and he missed school for several days. He hid out in his dorm room because he didn’t want his straight friends to see him.
Bill Perdue
@Chitown Kev: And yet people wonder why we’re so furious about bigotry.
hardmannyc
No, Bill Perdue, people can’t stand you because you spout the same idiotic agitprop rhetoric in response to every issue on every thread. Instead of sustained discussion, you just shout the same drivel.
People, one thing to keep in mind is that these are private citizens in Iraq doing this. Now it may be true that the police aren’t doing enough to counteract it, but that’s unfortunately probably a truism in most countries of the world outside of the enlightened West.
But there is a qualitative difference between the government actually killing gays (Iraq, Saudi Arabia), and private groups. Of course, doesn’t make much difference to the poor victims, I know. But it’s still a distinction.
Chitown Kev
@hardmannyc:
outside the “enlightened West.” Stabbed 57 times in Spain? The guy who got off very, very lightly in Liverpool? We aren’t that much more enlightened, actually. Besides, Muslim countries have Sh’aira to back them up, in many cases. As if the Christians here wouldn’t do the the same thing, were they able to.
hardmannyc
^^^ You’re right. I wasn’t trying to say the West was superior. We’re just as fucked up about gay bashings. But we do have laws, and they are USUALLY enforced. Unfortunately, there are instances like the ones you cite to show we still have a long way to go, but it’s better than in these totally fucked-up Middle Eastern countries.
Bill Perdue
@hardmannyc: You just don’t read much do you?
Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ali al-Husayni al-Sistani is a Shiite. The US installed government is also shiite. They have their little quarrels but both have gotten arms from the US.
Are you with me so far. US, quisling government, shiites, ayatollahs. I hope it’s not too complicated. This same Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Ali al-Husayni al-Sistani declared a fatwah on gays and lesbians, calling on his US armed and trained militia to murder our brothers and sisters in Iraq. Still with me HKG? I know, you’ve got a headache, but just bear with me. Just take an aspirin and try to follow.
There a just a few more facts for you to digest. “Last week the Iraqi LGBT group reported that some of an upcoming batch of executions in Iraq, which had been reported by Amnesty International, were of gay men being executed for homosexuality.
“The group has suffered severe persecution in Iraq. It runs safe houses for LGBT fleeing death threats and says that many of its members have been murdered by both death squads and police forces. Iraqi police have been reported as being infiltrated by both insurgents and religious groups.
“Iraqi LGBT claims that the government since mid December 2008 has “a mass campaign to [eliminate] homosexuality”. They say they have “many eyewitnesses” and that “members of the police and ministry of interior forces is actually involved on the mass arrest and taking suspects of homosexuality off the streets to unknown destination”.
This is from the http://iraqilgbtuk.blogspot.com/
And to watch a couple of eyeopening videos go here http://paulcanning.blogspot.com/2008/12/sexual-cleansing-of-iraq.html to paul canning excellent site
So the upshot is that either you’re a liar or our bothers and sisters in Iraq are making this all up to embarrass you and the other pro-war chickenhawks (political not sexual) who support the war from the safety of their snug little homes in Hell’s Kitchen.
Hunt
I am in no way negating the brutality of the life for gays in the Middle East, I just want to add that this is a cautionary note that it is absolutely necessary to stave off any progress by Fundamentalists in this country. Would Christian Fundamentalists re-criminalize homosexuality here? Absolutely, they would, and they would eliminate all homosexuals if they could–I’m a Christian and I believe that with all my heart and soul.
I understand what Bill Perdue is saying. If any of our political leaders (not just our presidential leaders, but all our representatives) really had an ounce of moral fortitude, we would have at least the basic federal protections denied to us already. Denying us housing, employment protection, along with protection against hate crimes just points our a capitulation to the Fundamentalist movement that exists here that would love to deny us fundamental human needs: shelter, food, and the ability to walk freely in this world without the fear of being beaten down for being who we are.
The line that separates us here from our brothers and sisters in the Middle East is not so clearly drawn as it should be, and we have our elected leaders to thank for that.
paul canning
@hardmannyc: this is not the case according to Iraqi LGBT’s claims. They say this is government sponsored and organised.
As I point out this needs corroboration but Iraqi LGBT reports have been corroborated before by IGLHRC and the UN.
Alec
@Bill Perdue: What’s your point? Iraq recriminalized homosexuality in 2001, IIRC, btw (making it a capital offense, no less). I was (and remain) opposed to the invasion and occupation, but if your argument is that the invasion is responsible for the suffering of LGBT Iraqis, I don’t think the facts are on your side. Certainly, the results have been catastrophic for all Iraqis, but gays were already being targeted by the Ba’athists before the invasion.
What’s next? The invasion of Afghanistan created a hostile environment for gays there?
Bill Perdue
@Alec: Everything I’ve read in the exile press and the GLBT press says that things were relatively quiet in terms of murders, and certainly in terms of state sponsored murders, of GLBT folks under Hussein. (Kurds and shiites were a different story altogether.) If you know otherwise (and please, no RNC, DNC or State Dept handouts), prove it.
We’ll all change our minds if you can prove it.
The invasion and occupation by US forces is not only solely responsible for the depredations against GLBT folks but for the murder of over a million other Iraqi’s. None of it would have happened absent the invasion.
In general the growing influence of fundamentalist islamic groups with all their backward misogyny and anti-GLBT hatred is a direct outgrowth of 60 some years of ethnic cleansing and apartheid by the zionists against Palestinians followed by the US invasions and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan and menacing of Syria and Pakistan to win control of oil and gas.
Those things enraged the muslim/Arab world and led to the monstrous, sunni sponsored, murderous terrorist attack on civilians on 9-11.
GayIsTheWay
Please contact Obama, the state department and your Senator and House Representative and tell them to stop Iraq’s executions of gay people.
Here is a petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/iraqgay/petition.html
Bill Perdue
Jebuzz, I almost got sidetracked argueing with the zionists.
Queerty is doing us all an immense favor in insisting that the big guns of the movemnt, the Task Force, HRC and others make a big effort to raise money to help out brothers and sisters in Iraq.
I also think those same organizations should demand that Obama grant open-ended asylum to GLBT in danger of torture and death and fly them to the US for safe keeping.
Thanks, Japhy and Queerty.
hardmannyc
@Bill Perdue: “Those things enraged the muslim/Arab world and led to the monstrous, sunni sponsored, murderous terrorist attack on civilians on 9-11.”
That explains his position perfectly, people. We brought 9/11 on ourselves by our murderous actions.
Bill Perdue
@hardmannyc: <Clintons administration ordered the embargo on food, medicine and sanitary supplies that killed about half a million Iraqi children. We didn’t vote on it although lots or war hawks supported it.
In 2000 Bush told the Palestinians that he was abandoning them to the tender mercies of zionist apartheid and ethnic cleansing. We didn’t vote on that disastrously mistaken policy although lots of war hawks supported it.
Then, when Bush set up an illegal war on Iraq with lies about WMDs, Hillary Clinton, Biden and most Democrats and all Republicans voted for it, but the American people didn’t.
The war is opposed by most Americans but Obama is continuing it and escalating it in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Some people believed Obama’s lies about ending the war and now they’re finding the hard way about truth and politicians.
And yes, 9-11 was Bush’s fault, not ours; not ‘we’ – it was ‘him’ and prowar chickenwarhawks like you know who.
So when you claim that “We brought 9/11 on ourselves by our murderous actions” you’re wrong. Need I say as usual? It was Clinton and Bush, and now it’s Obama. No us.
hardmannyc
Any justification for the 9/11 attacks doesn’t make it in my book, whether you’re citing Clinton, Bush I or Bush II.
Bill Perdue
@hardmannyc: If you read, and as several of us noted, your comments prove that you don’t, thus missing the whole point of this discussion, you’d know the difference between ‘explanation’ and ‘justification’.
I’m not going to provide them for you. You’ll have to look them up yourself. It’ll be good practice, and a sort of atonement for being such a blockhead.
How on earth do you hold down a job?
strumpetwindsock
@hardmannyc:
Bill is partially right in that 9/11 was a reaction, not an entirely unprovoked attack. That certainly doesn’t justify it .
The problem is that he refuses to see anything that is out of the range of the toilet paper tube he looks through to gather his information.
Things were quieter under Saddam? Sure. They were quieter in Yugoslavia under Broz Tito as well. Guess what happens when you create a power vacuum. Power brokers rush in to stake a claim and settle old scores. Government troops and police are committing atrocities? Do you think they are all working solely for the government, given how weak it is?
And is U.S., British and Soviet activity in the region responsible for making things worse? Absolutely; there’s a good chance many of those countries would be liberal democracies and not theocracies or beseiged occupations if we had been more hands-off. Then again – someone was going to do it; if not us, then the russians or chinese would have, so it was in a way inevitable.
But the situation is also a bit more nuanced than he makes out; you can’t blame it all on the west, the russians and the Israelis, and ignore the other racial, political and religious tensions in the region.
And for that matter you can’t just blame it on three people (even if they are presidents) and refuse to accept the responsibility we ALL bear for making things worse over there. We live an easy, lavish and secure lifestyle on the backs of those people and the rest of the developing world. To simply blame rulers and ignore our common responsibility is hypocritical and childish.
@Bill Perdue:
And you needn’t be so coy.
hardmannyc
@strumpetwindsock: Bill Perdue refuses to ignore the truth: that Israel is the only democratic, non-homophobic regime in the region. The Israeli parliament has Arab members, and I think there was even an Arab member of the cabinet recently. Contrast that with the regimes he shills for.
paul canning
How to get off the subject …
Anyone here got any practical ideas about how to support Iraqi LGBT? Or would you rather engage in a wankfest?
Bill Perdue
@paul canning:
one – organize publicty releases locally and intist that the national groups do the same. I’m convinced that’s what saved Medhi.
two – demonstrations where and when possible. No one needs anyones permission, just call some friends and local groups, get a banner and some signs and publicize what you’re doing. Then call the press.
three – scandalize the US’s governments role in all this. They run the country and they should stop the murders. Actually, they’re the only ones who can.
Your point is well taken but we always have to deal with zionists who interject themselves whenever this comes up. They have to be answered at some point.
Captain Freedom
This is just what the Neo Cons want! To see gays exterminated and killed in the hundreds!
Obviously you won’t hear much complaint from our Evangelical Republican leaders condemning this barbarism.
paul canning
Iraq execution: Is there anyone to help me before it’s too late?
http://madikazemi.blogspot.com/2009/04/iraq-execution-is-there-anyone-to-help.html
strumpetwindsock
@paul canning:
Is Amnesty International taking action on this? If not, they should. Their letters campaign has been shown to be a grassroots that has direct results.
In the same vein: any one of us can write directly AND DIPLOMATICALLY to the Iraqi government expressing our concern.
Countries which abuse human rights pay attention to letters, and it has been shown to influence many cases.
Make sure there is a CC on the letter to your local government representative, your minister of foreign affairs, the British government, whatever media you want to include, and to the U.N. just so they know other people are seeing the letter as well.
A campaign similar to this made the Afghan government pledge very quickly to repeal their recent family law. I assume it was big news in the U.S. as it was here.
Paul, I’m not sure which one or number of us you were referring to, but with respect, even if the debate does get pretty low at times, it is important not only to act but understand WHY we act. For that reason if for no other, it is important to suffer fools like us.
There’s nothing more dangerous than a movement which is angry, blind, ignorant and stupid.
Jon from Maine
Listen guys……It’s Religion that is the problem….Organized religion…I lived it….I hate it. My money is on the way….not in the Sunday offering….Jon
Pete
Along with their “sexual” cleansing, their fondness for “gender” cleansing (the anti-female violence referred to as so-called “honor” killings) will leave them with a society that will implode from such “morality.”
@hardmannyc: Have you been to Israel? The ultra-orthodox are quite a political force there. Recently, the women in the Israeli cabinet were airbrushed out of the official photo so as not to upset their tender feelings. If their anti-female intolerance is that strong, imagine how they feel about us.
Bill Perdue
@Jon from Maine: Good, and if possible press work and a demo.
hardmannyc
@Pete: I think the point is that the religious hardliners in Israel are A force, they aren’t THE force. Believe me, they’re plenty unhappy about:
*Israel being first country in the world where gays serve openly
•Israel now recognizing gay adoptions by same-sex couples
•Israel tacitly recogniziing gay marriage
•Gay pride celebrations in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.
See how many gay bars and clubs you find in Riyadh or Damascus.
bigjake75
@hardmannyc: good post. anyway, Im so past helping these fucked up cultures in any way. we should give asylum to any who flee, and drop bombs on the rest. Waste of fucking time in the middle east. These same assholes beat their women, stone them for showing their ankles, etc. Muslim societies today treat so many like shit. Who makes their women hide themselves? Who gang rapes a woman because…she was raped? Not Western cultures to be sure. So sick of it, so sick of the cruelty to others…and there is nothing we can do.
sal
omg omg omg so sad,those pics are heart killing
Sarah
This may seem a bit off-topic compared to the other comments here, but do you think they’d need other donations besides money? I don’t have much money I can give, although I do have plenty of old clothes, books, and bedding for the people they take out of Iraq.
alan brickman
Israel supports gays, the surrounding countrys just execute them…still having jew hate??
hardmannyc
@bigjake75: Oh you’re going to get the wrath of Commissar Perdue. I once said something offhand about bombing Iran (which I still believe), and I’ve been branded a tool of the capitalist war machine ever since.
@alan brickman: I have a lot of problems with Israel. Its attitude about lgbt’s is not one of them. My favorite comment was some lesbian during the Intifada saying, “I know if i lived in the Palestinian Authority, they’d kill me. But I still support them.” Uh-huh.
WetWaffleSlag
Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch FIGHT!
Vanhattan
For all of you ass wipes here who are still arguing about what caused or who is responsible for 9/11, etc., get a strong grip on reality for once in your life and LISTEN UP: GLBTQ people are being murdered and tortured NOW, like as in today and yesterday and most likely tomorrow in Iraq.
So either lend your money or voices or writing skills, etc. to help STOP this travesty of GLBTQ murder & brutality in our current history of the world or SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Thank you.
strumpetwindsock
@Vanhattan:
I appreciate your concern, but this is a public forum and people have a right to post here, even if you or I don’t agree with the opinions.
Rob W.
We’re up against a cultural ill that will take decades of moderation and economic recovery to fix. The most immediate solution is pure freedom for these people. Rich Western gays need to come together and dump money into establishing a firm network to smuggle them into Turkey. Safe houses are a start, but just a start. I don’t know what it takes. Better yet, smuggle them out by sea in container ships or something.
romel batallia
I’m so embarassed in that news ,we [gays]are not so bad in the world that they killed and leave like a garbage in the street road .
Chitown Kev
@Rob W.:
Maybe, but Turkey is getting more fundamentalist also. I’ve actually talked to GLBT’s from the Middle East and they no longer feel that Turkey is safe, although Turkey is much better than, say, Syria.
paul canning
Scott Long of Human Rights Watch is reporting as trying to seek corroboration for these reports from Iraqi LGBT
Bill Perdue
Heres a news item about the kind of demonstratons you can build wherever you live to throw the light of publicity on these murders…
Call some friends, set a time and call the press.
“SF Supes To Consider Resolution On Gay Rights in Iraq
Posted: 10:42 pm PDT April 6, 2009
SAN FRANCISCO — Gay rights activists in San Francisco gathered on Monday evening to lay flowers on symbolic tombs representing slain gay Iraqis.
They called for gay rights in Iraq after various media outlets reported that an Iraqi Interior minister said six gay men were killed in recent weeks after their families disowned them.
Supervisor Bevan Dufty said that some of the Iraqi victims had the word “pervert” in Arabic written on their bodies, leaving no doubt why they were targeted.
“This is the beginning of what could be untold slaughter of innocent people,” said Dufty. “Tribal councils, basically put out death sentences on people. That’s obviously far afield from anything related to democracy.”
On Tuesday, the San Francisco Board of Supervisors is scheduled to take up a resolution supporting Gay Rights in Iraq.
Human rights groups say they have documented the persecution of gays in Iraq and say at least four hundred gay people have been killed there in the past several years.
They say the situation has worsened in recent weeks, as religious clerics are condemning homosexuality from their pulpits and that has triggered a new wave of violence.
Bay Area activist Gary Virginia called on people around the world to go to their political leaders and demand an inquiry.
The San Francisco Resolution would call on the White House, the State Department, and Congress to condemn and investigate the latest killings in Iraq.
Gay Rights activist Michael Petrelis says international pressure can make a difference.
“I don’t know about acceptance, in the middle east, of gays,” he says, “but hopefully we can get to a point, of tolerance for gays.”
Thanks to M Peterlis via Gays Without Borders http://gayswithoutborders.wordpress.com/
DNK
This may sound paranoid (it is) but what kind of credentials does this Ali Hili guy have? Who can vouch for him? I’ve heard of too many charities being props for some terrorist group or another, and I certainly wouldn’t want the wrong type of person smuggled out of the country. I just would like some kind of proof before I send as much money as I think this is worth.
paul canning
Your not the first person to ask this and it’s a legitimate question.
To answer see here (about donating) http://resistanceisfruitful.wordpress.com/2009/03/28/gays-in-iraq-are-not-debating-marriage/
and here (about Ali’s credibility) http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/25/iraq-gay-rights
Hope that clarifies.
Bill Perdue
Here’s the kind of press we need. If you can write up a local press release and get it distributed. Try to get some local bigwig to denounce the murders and include that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/world/middleeast/08gay.html?_r=1&th&emc=th
bashar
Iraq was a secular country under saddam… thanks bush! Now we have the Islamic Republic of Iraq… whatever…
getreal
Why has the UN not sanctioned the countries that are allowing their citizens to lodge these domestic terrorist attacks against LGBT people? What politicians do we put pressure on to have the greatest effect? I pray for the many LGBT people in this country and in Jamaica and the many countries in the world where they are being persecuted.
Brian Miller
A couple of observations:
1) Left, right, up, down, 9-11, etc. are all irrelevant to this debate and don’t belong here. This is not a question of whose “fault” this is — an academic question anyway since it’s long since happened — but rather what can be done to save REAL lives.
2) I wouldn’t put much credence in what HRW’s Scott Long says or does either way. He carried water for the Iranian regime’s torture and execution of gay men when it looked like his “authority” as “the world’s only qualified international gay rights expert” was undermined. There’s also ample evidence that several of his “sources” are just sock puppets of his. One “supporter” of his — who relentlessly attacked Peter Tatchell and other gay activists on the international scene who dared comment on these issues without his permission — just happened to be posting from HRW’s New York office, where Scott works.
3) Anybody wanting 100% accurate and verifiable information isn’t going to get it. Anybody who claims to be able to deliver it — “expert” or otherwise — is probably either lying or misled. The real question is whether this situation is plausible, and whether it’s happened to enough people to warrant designation as a “troubling trend.” The answer to both these questions is “yes.”
4) Asylum policy needs desperate reform. Abuse, torture and murder of LGBT people in the Middle East is a real, tangible problem — and those who escape to the west often find unsympathetic or even outright hostile courts that dispatch them back to their home countries to face certain torture and death. The United Kingdom has the worst record of a western country on this front, but every European and North American country needs better policy. There also needs to be some resources to help spirit the refugees out of their countries and to freedom.
Bill Perdue
One. Left, right, up, down, 9-11, etc. are all irrelevant to this debate and don’t belong here.
What dissembling absurdity. Decisions arrived at by pontificating don’t count, Brian. The war and its politics are central to this question.
The question of fault is settled – the war and it’s attendant mass murder is entirely and solely the fault of the Democrats and Republicans and their English partners or client state. depending on whether you’re to the Department of State or the Foreign Office.
In terms of Iraqi GLBT folks it includes not just the half dozen or so real people in prison but the much larger number of real people that have been lynched by mobs or hunted down, tortured and murdered by US armed and trained jihadist deaths squads. In Iran it probably includes thousands of GLBT victims of state terror and in Pakistan and Afghanistan it includes victims of lynching and jihadist death squads.
It’s engendered by the mass murders of over a million real in the invasions and occupations. That is not over, not history and it’s still going on. It creates a climate that permits these killings by driving people towards islamist fundamentalism. The same is true in Afghanistan, Pakistani, Palestine, and Iran.
Part of the solution is to support IraqiLGBT by broadening support for our bothers and sisters there. Publicity, especially the kind that puts US and EU governments on the hot seat and demands answers is key to this effort. That’s why we should demand that they immediately create an open asylum policy.
Yoyu can’t shove your head deep enough in the sand to ignore the war and if you accept Obama’s lies that it’s over you’re a fool. For their part zionists are perfectly willing to see American GI’s and muslim civilians die if it helps insure their colonial intrusion in Palestine. But the rest of us should consider activism in the antiwar movement as a valuable side effort to the fight to save GLBT folks in South Asia and Palestine.
The situation will not get better until all US military; CIA and mercenary forces are pulled back to the US and the holdings of US oil companies are seized without compensation. Likewise, the situation in Palestine will not resolve until the US cuts its multibillion dollar funding for zionist apartheid and ethnic cleansing.
Two) I wouldn’t put much credence in what HRW’s Scott Long says or does either way… True.
Three) Anybody wanting 100% accurate and verifiable information isn’t going to get it… True in part. IraqiLGBT has a good reputation, operates in Iraq and is known for using the funds it raises for the purposes it raises them.
Four) Asylum policy needs desperate reform.
Yes, but it won’t happen except in a few cases, like those of Medhi Kazemi and Pegah Emambakhsh, both young Iranians who won temporary asylum after massive defense/publicity campaigns. The EU, with the exception of England, seems to be trying to come to grips with the situation but for the most part muslims, GLBT or not, have as hard a time getting out of the ever expending US imposed war zones in South Asia as Jews did escaping Hitler’s Europe. Muslim refugees are treated like pariahs and islamophobia is rampant, and often government policy in most NATO countries.
Scott Long
Human Rights Watch is going to Iraq next week to document what is happening there. We will have more information when we return.
Brian Miller’s comments above exemplify the kind of arbitrary invective that has surrounded issues in Iran, and that’s been particularly directed at people who questioned whether there were facts behind the eminently questionable claims made about an ongoing “pogrom” there. Without exception, those sweeping claims were only devised by Westerners and haven’t been endorsed by gay Iranians; the claims did no one outside or inside Iran any good, and–to the contrary–put a number of people’s lives in danger. The same phenomenon seems to be repeating itself with Iraq, along with the same reliance on fictitious numbers, and the same indifference to the actual safety of people there in pursuit of political as well as personal agendas. Human rights work is built on determining the facts of violations and establishing accountability for them; that is what HRW will work to do.
phil reese
I’m from Dearborn MI, I’m not a muslim, but my father’s business partner of over 20 years is, and I can assure you all of this Dearborn conspiracy shit is a load of Freeper teabagger hooey that ought to disgust any rational American. Don’t jump down Bill’s back just because he’s not a racist and you are. I’m not exactly shocked that this kind of bigotry runs rampant in these comments.
Brian Miller
Yeah, because Freepers are renowned for their outspoken support for the queer community.
Andrew W
TO: Japhy Grant (Author of this Post)
I appreciate your article and all of us feel horrible and angry about what is happening in Iraq. I am inclined to make a contribution, but I will wait until your report the story accurately. RELIGION, in this case Muslims, is what is killing gays in Iraq. It is because of their religious beliefs that it is “okay” to kill fellow Iraqis.
Please stop leaving that FACT out of your reporting.
Bill Perdue
@Andrew W: So you’re willing to withhold your contribution, which might save someones life to promote the islamophobic lie that the murders in IRaq are not the result of US policy and that religion is just a side issue.
How brave of you.
Phil
Brian Miller, did you even READ my comment before you reacted?
I’m offering a NON-RACIST point of view about Dearborn, you know, because I’m FROM there. This is in reaction to Big Jake’s statement that Dearborn is a ‘fucked up’ city. What–because its not completely run by white people? Its not some town run by Al Qaida, and in fact, EVERY Middle Eastern American I know is a true patriot, and is here because she or he loves this country.
Chitown Kev, I happen to be friends with Bashar, and have attended Al Gamea parties before, and they’re great. Bashar is a great guy, and I know he’d be the first to jump up on this board and say, “wait a minute, this is way off base.”
I’ve known guys and girls who grew up Christian and Jewish get kicked out of their houses for being gay, but I’ve also known girls and guys who grew up with NO religion get kicked out of their houses for being gay. I’ve known Buddhists and Hindus who have kicked their kids out for being gay. Islam does NOT have a monopoly over hate, homophobia or violence. Don’t be pretending like things are all rosy here in white Christian America. Your shit smells too.
I think that conservatism and ignorance are to blame here, once again, for the violence against gays. Its doesn’t originate from any one religion, or from Religion at all, but from closed-mindedness and ignorance. After reading these comments, I’m pretty sure if we got some of these boys together in a room, and hyped them up to a fever pitch, and then threw in someone they disagreed with, we’d see a similar level of gore and carnage. The violence is a product of the ignorance–which this comment stream seems to have plenty of.
Brian Miller
Oh Jesus, I just saw Scott Long from HRW stopped by to spew his garbage. I won’t even engage the little man beyond noting that he’s seen “Islamic” sock puppets to back up his own rhetoric in articles and posts… too bad his sock puppets post from an “HRW New York” IP address.
And Phil, you’re being ridiculous. Claiming that “Freepers” are involved in a “pro-gay anti-Islamic” conspiracy is batshit crazy.
o......r
hi
can i get help plz i dont know what may i do i am young gay from iraq- baghdad
i am still search in the internet for 4 mothns ago for help and no one answered I do not know why I do not reply to every one I have been beaten and threatened
But I do not know what is the solution please help me plz
my e-mail
[email protected]
McShane
@ Bill” This is nothing new. It’s the result of the US invasion and occupation and nothing else”.
Right, Americans are to dense too realise that gays just represent the culture they have grown to hate and are an easy target. All americans who support/ed that horrible war are responsible.