DEVELOPING — The outcome of California’s Prop 8, which would amend the state constitution to ban gay marriage, has yet to be decided. In Florida, where gay marriage is already outlawed, a bill to amend the state constitution to ban gay marriage and gay civil unions is expected to narrowly pass, making the state the 27th to have such a law in their constitution. In Arizona, voters are expected to pass Proposition 102, which would ban gay marriage, but unlike previous measures that were defeated, it does not include language regarding gay civil unions. — See the returns from California’s polls here. — CNN’s latest exit polls show a hopeful, albeit slim, possibility of Californians defeating Prop 8.
But What About Gay Marriage?
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Road2Nowhere
Umm..
Amendment 2 in Florida passed.
hours ago.
Proposition 8 still developing.
YES ON PROPOSITION 8
FUCK YES, WE’RE WINNING!
NO TO SEXUAL PERVERSION!
NO TO CORRUPTING OUR INNOCENT CHILDREN!
NO TO THE GAY AGENDA!
YES ON PROPOSITION 8!
asabranca.net
I breathed a sigh of relief when Barack won the election.
But now I’m on pins and needles again!
Oy!
John Shaft
Even if proposition 8 passes, gay marriage is coming. People 18-29 overwhelmingly support equal rights.
Unless the “values” voters can find a way for their hypocritical dinosaur forebears to vote from their eventual grave, it will happen.
burton21
No. 2, suck my gay nuts.
shoskins
No.2, Prop 8 isnt going to stop the gay communities or gay people. Prop 8, if it passes or not, will encourage our society only further to realize the original constitution is correct and all people are due the same rights. We may have to fight harder if it does pass, but we will NOT STOP.
Now go cry in your church that McCain lost.
GHack
LOL, the gay Agenda…
1:00 p.m. Meet someone for whom you only know his waist, chest and penis size from AOL M4M chat for lunch at a hot, new restaurant. Because the maître d’ recognizes you from a gay bar, you are whisked past the Christian heterosexual couples who have been waiting patiently for a table since 12:30.
2:30 p.m. “Dessert at your place.” Find out, once again, people lie on AOL.
3:33 p.m. Assume complete control of the U.S., state, and local governments (in addition to other nations’ governments); destroy all healthy Christian marriages; recruit all children grades Kindergarten through 12 into your amoral, filthy lifestyle; secure complete control of the media, starting with sitcoms; molest innocent children; give AIDS to as many people as you can; host a pornographic “art” exhibit at your local art museum; and turn people away from Jesus, causing them to burn forever in Hell.
4:10 p.m. Time permitting, bring about the general decline of Western Civilization and look like you are having way too much fun doing it.
4:30 p.m. Take a disco-nap to prevent facial wrinkles from the stress of world conquest and being so terribly witty.
6:00 p.m. Open a fabulous new bottle of Malbec.
Snoodle
My, my, a bit troll-ish out tonight isn’t it…
Justen
It’s not just Prop 8. All the votes about gay rights in your country right now (gay marriage, gay parents being allowed to adopt) are currently being defeated according to what’s been counted at this moment.
I would love to see a summary post on what passed (if anything) and what didn’t. It’d be great to link to and show people that, hey, the States may have elected Obama but there’s still a hell of a long way to go before anyone starts patting themselves on the back about equality and opportunity.
Tim
Troll mad!
Troll use CAPS to piss gays off!
MEN-SER
i just read that most blacks are opposed to gay marriage
yet you all just voted one in as the next president of the united states of america – a man who has already stated he’s against it
fkin retards
subwayslasher
Why does a rabidly homophobic freakazoid (I’m looking at you no. 2/8!) troll around a gay website? If you’re looking for shirtless pictures of Zac Efron, do a google search!
HELL TO THE MOTHERFUCKING YES
18% now reporting.
Yes on 8: 54%
No on 8: 45%
ITS GOING TO PASS YOU TURD BURGLERS
Snoodle
Do you smell something…? I think it’s coming from No.14 up there…
LappyDappy
24% reporting
No: 47%
Yes: 53%
Gap is closing a little. It’s soooo close that if it passes, there’s a very good chance it could be repealed in 2010 or whenever the next ballot initiative can go forward. If it stays this close, it’s not really bad news no matter how it turns out.
Logical
John Shaft ,
“Even if proposition 8 passes, gay marriage is coming. People 18-29 overwhelmingly support equal rights.”
Guess what John…. those 18-29 year olds are only getting older and wiser by the day…. They will eventually become mothers, fathers and the old farts that you say are the only ones that support prop 8. So think again if you think that they will be your future supporters.
Dave
I am mad as hell! Mad at Blacks for not supporting us, Mad at Obama for not doing more to defeat this, and Mad at the American People! F@#k all of you! I want to vote on straight peoples marriages, people that have been married 5 times, murders and child rapists able to marry while in prison, divorce rate over 50%. Straight people do not deserve to marry!
LappyDappy
And if the Yes wins, think of how much they spent to get this result!
FAGS + MARRIAGE = WTF?!
[removed]
George
YES YES YES PROP 8 !!!
YES ON PROP 8 IS WINNING !!!! WEEEE WONNNNN
Ugly people turn gay since they cant get pussy or dick ROFLMAO
Timothy
Great
Voters pass 2 to treat ducks, chickens and cows about to become dinner selections under Poultry and Meat signs in the back of Safeway and we get fucked!!??!?
Fuck voting for Obama so his black and Latin supporters could rob me of marriage.
Fuck you Obama and Biden for saying NOTHING!
Jamie
FUCK ALL THESE CLOSETED ACTORS NOT SPEAKING OUT.
THANKS TO ANDERSON COOPER AND HIS LATINO LOVE TOYS FOR SAYING NOTHING
FUCK THE CLOSET CASES.
SPREAD AIDS TO THESE FUCKERS!
greybat
No. 7- christian, heterosexual couples do not eat at “hot, new restaurants”.
If they did, the restaurant would no longer be “hot” or “new”.
MEN-SER
@ #21
thats my theory, even though i’m gay, WHY THE FUCK ARE SO MANY GAY GUYS SO FUCKING UGLY?
Mark
Fuck Rachel Maddow
Fucking dyke on MSNBC said nothing to support 8.
Fuck Arianna Huffington for refusing No on 8 posts at Huffington Post.
Fuck the Daily Kos queer boys who fucked us over.
psy
As I understand it, the true blue parts of the states haven’t reported their results in yet, so 8 will probably fail. this was the same situation with VA a few hours ago in the presidential election. It was like 59-41 McCain until they counted the blue parts of the state (usually larger urban areas, takes more time). Obama won VA, so Prop 8 might still be defeated.
Logical
Dave
It’s still to early to tell for sure but, you should be thanking all those people for saving you from the same fate… I would only be a matter of time before gay marrage had the same problems that everyone else has.
psy
@Logical: I see your point but gays should have a right to be just as miserable as the rest of society.
Steve
I blame lame Queerty and their poor writing………..
Queerty web site sucks! Never visiting this fucked up site EVER AGAIN!
HELL TO THE MOTHERFUCKING YES
YES ON PROP 8
ITS GOING TO PASS YOU FILTHY TURD BURGLARS
John K.
Wouldn’t it be great if Prop. 8 fails and all these trolls have to eat their own bullshit IMMEDIATELY!
Matthew
Niggards dance in the streets and we are pushed back. Some progress. Fuck Kenya-Bama and his hateful wife. I want my $200.00 back!
MEN-SER
thats right #33…
its all the hate-filled apes who are responsible for passing prop 8
Troy
Time to out these closet cases:
Anderson Cooper, David Plouffe, Jody Foster, Kos Founder, Ben Smith
Keep your mouths shut now we OUT you traitors for your silence.
psy
“Wouldn’t it be great if Prop. 8 fails and all these trolls have to eat their own bullshit IMMEDIATELY!”
I manage an unmoderated forum (not much work, actually, since I don’t moderate it) so I love trolls, actually. A lot of them turn out to be regular posters with a flair for the dramatic/satirical. Personally, I find censorship more distasteful than anything they could possably say.
On topic: Prop 8 will fail. Wait for the blue parts of the state to fully report in.
Dave
http://cbs13.com/electionresults
Another source but the LA time link is better – don’t have to scroll when you refresh.
Anyone else notice how all the bigots seem to be obsessed with what gays are doing? I don’t believe that we harass anyone at their gun totting, bible thumping, little meetings yet they stick their noses in our private lives all the time so once again ‘Yes on 8 folks’ no means NO.
psy
Relax guys. Prop 8 will fail. Have a few drinks, chill out, party some, and wait until all the results are in.
LMFAO
LMFAO!!!
PROP 8 IS WINNING
WE WON!
YOU LOSE, POO PUSHERS
ken
1) Black voters, although an important voting group this election, isn’t that big or by any stretch of the imagination a majority. Whites voted in large numbers too, so let’s not make racist and somewhat stupid statements or point fingers and simply accept that for some yet incomprehensible reason a majority of the people of California don’t believe that homosexuals are entitle to the same basic rights as heterosexuals.
2) Most likely, the ban will pass, but considering 16,000 couples married so far, there will be loads of legal issues, lawsuits, appeals and perhaps a need to go to higher courts, which could turn to our favor considering the civil right aspect of the issue.
3) Times are changing, more and more younger people don’t care about sexual orientation and aren’t fans of any sort of discrimination. And in response to ‘Logical,’ being a mother or father doesn’t make you anti-gay marriage nor reject values. Young people have transformed and updates values on race, politics, the state of the nation and basic human equality. Gay marriage can certainly happen in a few years.
4) If you don’t approve of gay marriage or aren’t tolerant of homosexuals, that’s fine, but what exactly provokes you to come to a gay website and trash its community? Do you need to feel bigger? Better? More important? More virtuous? Because it only seems to us like you’re either a self-hating closet case, or have been touched a few times too often by your priest and channel all the anger you have towards him towards us instead. So take a deep breath, and relax.
Logical
Dave,
Boy did you miss the point.. if you had stayed in the closet you would have your privacy. It’s when you try to force your life style on others that you get put in the spotlight. If gays had just wanted a legal union (read: same as marriage without the word marriage) then no one would have objected…
NO TO POO PUSHERS
WE WONT LET YOU PERVERTS MARRY!
NEVER!
YES ON PROPOSITION 8!
Brian Miller
If gays had just wanted a legal union (read: same as marriage without the word marriage) then no one would have objected…
Yeah, it’s not like the anti-gay bigots rallied against civil unions in Vermont with a Take Back Vermont hate campaign or anything.
Oh, wait a minute, never mind.
It’s all about hate. Always was, always will be.
John K.
#36 PSY: Oh, I wasn’t suggesting censorship at all. I was simply noting how much greater the feeling will be to know that these morons not only have to deal with the defeat, but they have to know that they arrogantly opened their mouths before the results were in.
JJJJ
I voted for Obama, and I’m glad he won, but sadly the exit polls are showing that African-Americans who turned out in such large numers to vote for him also voted Yes on Prop 8.
psy
@41
Being yourself in front of others is not forcing your lifestyle on them. Being forced (debatable*) to stay in the closet and being somebody else, on the other hand, is having a lifestyle forced (debatable*) upon you…
Being gay isn’t a choice anyway. Who would chose to be persecuted in the manner gays are? It would make things a hell of a lot easier for me were I straight, but that’s not so… I can either be myself or choose to deny who I am. Why should I have to do that, and if I choose to be myself, why should I be denied the rights to make a commitment to another person I love just like any other member of society? What is so wrong with that?
On the legal side, there are several issues why “marriage” as a word must be used (to fit within the existing laws that reference the word). There is also the issue of “seperate but equal”, but you might not find that argument persuasive.
*is it possible to really force a lifestyle on another person?
crazylove
A note: If this is a movement then one looks not just at whether this fails or passes but what were the numbers. Here’s what I see (still not knowing whether it will pass or fail): Pass or fail the gay movement (which is oxymoronic) will need to start building grassroots efforts rather than these Kerry-esque last minute appeals. But on the bright side, even if we lose in CA- despite the doom and gloomers, it will be close. Right now, we lost in 2000 by 60 percent right? Well, this will fail or pass by a margin of the lower 50s and or upper 40s. That huge and crucial. Why? Look at the stats:
a) The demographic shifts of younger voters who overwhelming supporting our right to gay marriage. Major long term advantage.
b) There is a lot of work to be done in the African American community, but this requires long term work- not again last minute appeals. There are surrogates we need to start using. Demographically, African Americans aren’t a significant enough block to have determined the race.
c) The latinon vote in CA , if this fails, will turn out to have been the deciding factor. We reached out to them at the last minute and in a very limited fashion. I have to put a question mark on whether we could have won this decisively given the numbers, if we had reached out to the latino voters given their portion of CA’s demographics.
Finally, and this is the crucial point, like the NAACP Legal defense fund we need long term thinkers that aren’t present in any grass roots gay efforts. The demographics are such that even if it is close now, if one built the infrastructure in the right ways, one could win this by putting up a repeal of this amendment in less than a decade.
psy
@44: I totally agree. Personally, I think 8 will be defeated, judging by the way early results in VA were similar earlier this evening and how the state radically flipped over.
Here’s an experiment for you trolls out there: Look at the counties in CA that bush won, compare those to those who are leaning Yes on 8. Now ask yourself if the Republicans ever win California.
Soup
OMG, LIKE, CUZ TYPING IN CAPSLOCKS AND SAYING FUCK HEAPS WILL SO LIKE, MAKE ME SOUND SOOO MATURE AND LOGICAL AND STUFFS!!!
Come on, guys. You’re entitled to your own opinions, but do you really have to use stupid and immature terms like “POO PUSHERS” and “TURD BURGLARS”? You sound like a bunch of angry 12 year olds trying to be witty.
:\
You’re the type of people children need protecting from.
Brian Miller
if one built the infrastructure in the right ways, one could win this by putting up a repeal of this amendment in less than a decade.
The Mormons and Baptists blew their life savings on this amendment — you could mount a repeal campaign in two years’ time that is as equally well-funded, since gay people didn’t dig as deeply nationwide as Mormons and Baptists did.
Rinse, repeat, until the bigots go broke.
kelly
i don’t understand why people have to be so ignorant. i hate how people say we need change so vote for obama, but really people are obviously scared of change. gays go through so much because they are different. yeah it might not be normal to some people but that’s who they are. so stop being so stupid about prop 8 and give people who really love each other the chance to really commit to each other through marriage.
<3
Logical
Brian
I read your link… and stand by my statement. California being more open minded and forward thinking might have been a different story if the term marriage was not at stake…
It’s all about marriage. Always was, always will be.
I “hate” to be the one to say it, but if you can’t win here, you may be beating a dead horse.
psy
@50: or you can try to educate the bigots and change their minds. They probably know lots of gay people but choose to “un-see” certain things. Many gay people who have had bigoted parents knows how it works. All you really have to do is get them to stop seeing gay people as “other” and get them to realize that, apart from what we choose to do with our genitals, we’re generally just like them, human. It’s a hard task, but it can be done, and indeed has to be done if bigotry against gays is ever going to become a dark footnote in the nations history.
psy
@51: the great thing about good propoganda is that it really means nothing when you get down to it (read Chomsky or Lifton on this). What does “Change” really mean. Change to what? what makes it such a perfect slogan is that everybody thinks the change is in a direction they want. Everybody thinks they have the same idea of what that change is, but if they actually talked amongst each other as to which direction change should go… chaos.
Logical
PSY
Oh No… We already have one dark footnote in the nations history tonight.
Pun intended, Racism not intended….
abc
when will we know the results?
Logical
10634 of 25429 (42%) Precincts Reporting
crazylove
Logical- can I just point out that once again I am African American as well as being gay. if there is one thing I am certain after having grown up down South and being told certain things were impossible. tonight proves them wrong. Justice maybe slow, but it eventually happens. So you can keep talking about always was, and always will be. I will keep fighting to make sure that one day the gay part of me is given the same level of respect as the black. Wrong crowd for your kind of pessmism. This is a road block. If we lose- that it’s it. I hope others begin to realize that. Even if they don’t there is the ticking demographic time bomb I mention above.
abc
uhhhhhhhhhhhh how long will it take
michael
Wake up people. Obama may have won but bigotry and discrimination was further codified into law. I said this during and before this election. There is no Santa Claus that is ever going to hand us our rights. Martin Luther King said it decades ago and I will say it to you now.
FREEDOM IS NEVER VOLTUNTARILY GIVEN BY THE OPPRESSOR; IT MUST BE DEMANDED BY THE OPPRESSOR – Martin Luther King Jr.
If tonight does not prove that then you will never learn it. We must stop the pussyfooting around. We must stop relying on bogus organizations like the HRC that take credit for nothing. No revolution has ever been won without a fight. Its time to play dirty, its time to play hard or just give up and accept what is, but what we are doing is not working.
crazylove
You also lead out where they are reporting. Which if people follow the link they will realize that the numbers given what’s happening will be extremely close. Alameda county for example and LA still aren’t reporting fully.
John
We lost this battle because of Los Angeles. Plain and simple.
Everywhere turned out exactly as you would expect. With inland GOP counties voting for Prop. 8 and the suburban Dem ones around San Francisco voting against it. But Los Angeles totally screwed us over. They voted for Obama and then turned sharply against us.
Logical
crazylove,
Can I just point out I voted for Obama, Even if he was against Prop 8. I am allowed to have my own beliefs and still be open minded to others.
crazylove
In 2000 (8 years ago) the measure to ban gay marriage passed by 61 percent.
In 2008, the measure will pass by (at best) if it passes it seems by 51 or 52 percent.
8 years. We are nearly tied.
This is without having done an effective outreach to the Latino community or having blunted the the Yes on 8 lies (if you read the La Times article up now- some voters voted yes due to education- yes the voters re stupid, but the solution to that is to build campaign that’s not easily manipulated through lies. That’s a grassroots rather than money and telephone campaign. A lesson sadly still not understood by gays, but understood by progressives who helped elected Barack Obama).
You can be the peter pans that most of you idiots are, or you can realize that this is just the start. Those numbers are fantasic in how much they are in our intermediate favor.
Oh, and on a really good note. The state senate of NY flipped tonight. gay marriage is coming to NY.
I am headed to bed.
marcus
As an expatriate of the United States I have never been so grateful for having been given the opportunity to live in a place that does not allow bigotry and discrimination to flourish. I have also never felt more hatred toward the U.S. than I have tonight. To see that 4 states passed measures of oppression toward gay people is just mind boggling. But I suppose I have forgotten how backward and trashy the United States is. America deserves all the bad karma it has gotten. I tell all gay people to get out. Don’t be like a Jew in Germany and think that this is going to get better, because it is not. Gays got nothing tonight. Nothing. And no gay person has any reason to celebrate unless your celebrating false hope.
crazylove
Logical
Why do you think who you voted for President is relevant to my argument against how your arguments are flawed here? I used Obama as an example of how short term your “logic” is. I don’t cre for whom you voted. I care about the long arc of history. Obama mentioned tonight that 106 year old woman, the daughter of a slave. That’s the arc of history. From slavery to the Presidency of the U.S. Just early this year , every black friend I had (and I will admit even I) said that a black man would never be elected President of this country. They and I were proven wrong.
The numbers I see out of CA means that history in a very short amount of years (not 100, probably not 10) will prove the homophobes wrong. You can see this as a defeat, or realize it is what it is. A skirmage. The conservatives have that on the gays. They get that this is the long haul.
Finally- if you don’t get the logic of what I am saying. May I sugges tyou stop using the name logical since you only throw out strawmen in response.
crazylove
Okay, it’s settled- I can’t handle the gay gene to be pathetic tonight. Ia m in a good mood because i see the shape of history and you people are just stuck in your own shit.
Dave
http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/status.htm
Secretary of State site is reachable if anyone’s interested
Brian Miller
California being more open minded and forward thinking might have been a different story if the term marriage was not at stake…
The “term” marriage “isn’t at stake.”
Nobody’s marriage is threatened.
What is illustrated is the ability of a simple majority to vote away the rights of an insular minority. Had Alabama had a similar constitutional structure in the 1960s, it would have easily voted away the rights of black people in a larger margin — replete with excuses about how it’s “not about hate” but “about tradition.”
The whole argument about “it’s the word” is a fig leaf.
You can throw a fig leaf on a big ole turd, but underneath, it’s still a turd.
michael
I just looked at some of the numbers on these propositions and I saw that Florida’s numbers were 62% against gay marriage and civil unions. I cannot believe that any gay person could stand to live there another day. What a vile fucking place. Are gay people so self loathing that they would just stay in a place that expresses such hatred toward them? I know that its not easy for everyone to just pick up and move but Florida is not exactly the land of opportunity. Its a low wage state and does not have a lot of great jobs. So maybe gays will make a mass exodus of the place and leave those old fucktards to rot. I would rather slam my dick in a door than live in any of the other southern states. Its just sad that California has turned out to not be much better.
Maybe California should divide itself into two states, North and South. It just seems like any place southern in the U.S. is just a rat hole.
Logical
crazylove
I made no personal attacks on anyone here, yet you seem to be set for a battle.. So I will leave you with something to ponder….
You only have 100 years….
Why don’t you put gay marriage to a scientific litmus test?
1) Place 100 married gay men – or – 100 gay married woman on an island.
2) Place 100 married heterosexuals 1/2 men and 1/2 women on a second island.
3) Wait 100 years……
When you return to the fist island you will find nothing but grave stones.
When you return to the second island you will find a new generation of people, growing learning, loving and creating the next generation.
Lets face it. If not for heterosexuals the gay lifestyle is a dead end….. with no future … because you have no future generation.
Sleep well….
Brian Miller
America deserves all the bad karma it has gotten. I tell all gay people to get out.
Yes, because countries are just desperate for gay Americans to move there and are handing out passports to whoever hops on the next plane out of the country.
And the sad reality is that if you do go overseas (I have done so, repeatedly, living throughout the world), you’ll just go from being “that faggot” in the USA to “that American” (or even “that American faggot”) overseas.
Different bigotry, same basic problem.
Brian Miller
If not for heterosexuals the gay lifestyle is a dead end….. with no future … because you have no future generation.
Gosh, that’s funny. Last time I checked, my testicles were producing sperm, and my lesbian neighbor’s ovaries were producing eggs.
Perhaps that’s why I was able to produce sperm to fertilize her eggs so that she and her girlfriend could have a child of their own.
Brian Miller
PS — I’m queer and livin’ the lifestyle, darling-heart.
Brian Miller
Its just sad that California has turned out to not be much better.
I’m not surprised. California is more about the illusion of progressivism than actual progressivism. Strip off the veneer of “edginess,” and you’ve got a very high-tax, high-cost-of-living state where homophobia is still very much alive.
The only time I ever faced homophobia in my career was when I lived in San Francisco.
Steff
1) Place 100 married gay men – or – 100 gay married woman on an island.
2) Place 100 married heterosexuals 1/2 men and 1/2 women on a second island.
3) Wait 100 years……
When you return to the fist island you will find nothing but grave stones.
When you return to the second island you will find a new generation of people, growing learning, loving and creating the next generation.
Lets face it. If not for heterosexuals the gay lifestyle is a dead end….. with no future … because you have no future generation.
Or, you know, there is a third option, whereby gay and straight people could co-exist together, you know, peacefully?
Alas, people seem rather too afraid to try that one out.
psy
“Lets face it. If not for heterosexuals the gay lifestyle is a dead end….. with no future … because you have no future generation.”
All the reason to let us marry if your goal is to wipe us all out.
michael
Yes, because countries are just desperate for gay Americans to move there and are handing out passports to whoever hops on the next plane out of the country.
And the sad reality is that if you do go overseas (I have done so, repeatedly, living throughout the world), you’ll just go from being “that faggot” in the USA to “that American” (or even “that American faggot”) overseas.
Different bigotry, same basic problem.
Things rock here in Vancouver and yeah, Americans don’t get much respect but once you let people know that you find the place and people as loathsome as they do and that why you left your fine. But if you leave thinking your some big shot American with a big ego who is better than everyone else in the world, your probably going to be treated poorly. Maybe you were putting something out that made people dislike you so but are just blaming it on being American, or being gay.
Dave
AAh what a bittersweet night. My joy for the Obama win is now lackluster at best. We lost big time tonight folks in all the states that had ballot measures against us, we lost. To the people of California you think animals deserve more respect than people-way to go! To the people of Florida thank you so much for making me a second class citizen. To the people of Arkansas I am sure all those orphans will be glad to be stuck in some cess pool of state quagmire instead of a gay, loving home-way to be pro family. And to you people of Arizona thanks for showing what a bunch of bigots you really are, and that you did not mean it when you defeated this the first time. All you people rock for being so ugly and mean.
crazylove
I stayed up mostly to see how you would respond logical, and you as expected- you responded with gibberish. Look dude, pretending you weren’t hankering for a fight is silly because you are just being passive aggressive about it. I am not even going to address the silines like others. I really got to go to sleep now. History is on our side guys. Remember that as you wallow in pity.
John K.
#71 “Logical”: Put 100 priests and women on an island and wait 100 years. See what happens.
Are priests immoral? Are their lives a dead-end with no future?
anon
Queerty,
Take control of your website and moderate these hateful, flaming comments already!
mds
I got an e-mail from the HRC tonight, claiming “victory” for the Obama win. I immediately wrote them back and told them to go fuck themselves. How dare they claim “victory” when gay people either lost rights or measures were taken in 4 states to ensure they would not ever get them. I am sick of the games. I am sick of playing nice. Its not working. The court gives us rights, then the people take them away. We are sitting here letting others decide if we should have rights or not. Fuck that. We have to take our rights, demand our rights. We have to get nasty about this. We have to march, to riot, to scream! We have to use our economic clout. Because whatever we gay people are sitting around waiting for, well it ain’t happening. So maybe we can keep playing it this way and humanity will evolve in a few hundred years to the point of giving us what we deserve or we can refuse to sit on the back of the bus. Cause tonight, thats exactly what we were told to do, sit at the back of the bus.
marcus
Crazylove, I am from the South and I don’t know where you are from but its still no paradise for blacks. Ever been to Memphis? Most segregated place you will ever see. I am from Nashville and let me tell you, black people have there place and white people have theres. Yeah, you can vote, you can marry but stop painting some beautiful portrait of the south. Just look at the election results from the south, it still thinks like it always has. And stop telling people they are “pitying” themselves cause they are pissed. What if someone had of told Dr. King and the rest of the civil rights leaders that they were “pitying” themselves for finding things unacceptable. You may be doing the happy dance because a person of color is president but personally I am not willing to wait 100 years for gay people to get the most basic of rights. So shut the fuck up.
bobito
Baby steps, guys… I’m very disappointed, but we gotta keep fighting, especially now that there will be somebody in the White House who can be approached on these issues. Yeah, he’s not on our side yet, but we will have to convince him – he’s capable of being inspired and inspiring others, unlike McCain or monkey boy.
We were fighting for our lives long before “the country lost its innocence on September 11”. We’re still fighting – it takes time. Old prejudices can weaken – Obama’s election is a sign of that. It doesn’t mean that racial prejudice is over (look at the posts here). A new generation is coming into its own, and the old prejudices will weaken even more, faster than before. Breathe, and don’t give in to despair. We’ll make this happen.
boytroy
I have been all over the blogs tonight. The anger and outrage of gay people is unbelievable! I pray that this is the beginning of LGBT’s taking charge of their destiny and motivating them to see this for what it is, a war. People do not give a shit about us, its up to us to give a shit about ourselves or lay down and die.
JJJJ
Exit polls now show a whopping 72 percent of African-Americans who voted also voted Yes on 8. I’m not guaging Obama (who I like and voted for) by those people, but can you imagine the gall of a community whose murder rate against each other has increased four times over (since the Civil Rights of the ’60’s movement) thinking they should tell anybody else how to live?!
boytroy
“Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor, it must be demanded by the oppressed” Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Why do we ignore words of wisdom? Why do we wait for others to accept in order to get our just due? There are millions of people who still do not accept blacks, 40 years after the civil rights movement of the 50’s and 60’s. I agree, we must refuse to sit on the back of the bus.
John K.
So, go out and do something about it.
John
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Even if he were sympathetic, Obama wouldn’t necessarily have time to deal with our problems. He’s going to be a very busy man.
Liberals have been celebrating like we’ve got some sort of wonderful prize by winning. But America is hardly the superpower it once was. They have to listen to us because we have nuclear weapons. But our advice doesn’t necessarily carry any more weight than that of India, China, or the European Union nowadays.
And the reality is we’re inheriting an empty treasury, several unnecessary wars, and systemic corruption. Our public infastructure is falling apart. We have a weak and ineffective legislature holding the purse strings (led by a 70 year old Italian grandmother). Not to mention the legions of religious extremists who continue to push for divisive fights both domestically and within the realm of international affairs.
In short, President Obama will find the honeymoon short-lived.
boytroy
69% of African American voters voted against marriage equality, Every other ethnic group supported marriage equality according to exit polls in California. So all this debating about black homophobia the past few months is pretty much settled. Black did us in, the victim become the perpetrator. Black really have not evolved very much.
psy
@89:
Invade Utah? Lobby to get tougher regulations on polygamy?
paul
America is an absolute mess. With in 3 years it will not be able to pay the interest on its massive debt. The central banks will just print more and more money to cover this and our dollar will be worthless. You will see mass poverty like never before. A handful of the most wealthy will have their off shore bank accounts in foreign currencies to fall back on but the rest of the United States will be bankrupt. America is going down the toilet and all of Obama’s best intentions won’t be able to stop it. Its pretty sad but true. Americans have always carried a belief that big daddy in the sky will always save them which stems from their arrogance and grandiosity. Martial law will be enacted, all rights will be stripped away from everyone and its going to be awful. So don’t worry about gay rights cause you will all be worrying about where your next meal will be coming from. This party is over.
John K.
How about public sex outside the mormon temple.
John K.
And any conservative church we can hit while we’re at it. They thought prop. 8 was gonna keep their kids from seeing us? Now they can see ALL of us!
John K.
Note, my use of the word “hit” in comment 95 was in no way intended to mean violence. I mean, “hit” with a public sex display.
psy
94:
I’m down for that. They didn’t want to see their kids see gays get married, let’s at least have gay marriage ceremonies outside their places of worship until they at the very least publicly apologize for messing with the California election. Stake them out!
Time to get _loud_.
psy
They can take away our rights to marry, but right to protest is still guaranteed. Stake them out. They don’t want to see us. Let’s make sure they see us.
John K.
Exactly. Make sure their KIDS see us!
John K.
I take back the sex thing, cause that would only reinforce their idea that we are pedophiles. But, performing loud marriage ceremonies weekly outside their places of worship and speaking directly to their kids as they walk by would do the trick.
John K.
And the irony is that their kids would have been less exposed if the parents would have just STFU and let us marry.
boytroy
I really don’t think that tonight was a victory for African Americans.
They did not overcome the bigotry and hatred of the white man, they just joined in with it. I guess they are all high and mighty and feel like they have “earned” the right to oppress others. I am glad they are now in that great fraternity of hate that they all so spent years complaining about.
psy
Yup. They started it, though. So it’s time to play dirty. Gay marriages outside morman temples for all their kids to see. Let’s make gay marriage more of a problem for them than they could ever have dreamed it being had they left us alone. Make their worst nightmares of “teh gay” come true.
psy
“But, performing loud marriage ceremonies weekly outside their places of worship and speaking directly to their kids as they walk by would do the trick.”
A model to follow would be the Anonymous vs. Church of Scientology protests. Fitting since the LDS church is Scientology plus 150 years. Just make sure to register the protest in advance where required and there is really nothing they can do but cover their kids eyes, and they can only do that for so long.
psy
I can almost hear the megaphone “do you adam, take steve to be your unlawfully wedded husband?” And so forth. Loud, provocative, street theater, with much kissing and public displays of (appropriate) affection, in as much as straight couples would display in public, to emphasize equality.
Brian Miller
once you let people know that you find the place and people as loathsome as they do
So basically, once you display the same sort of bigotry they do towards an entire country, they conceal their bigotry towards you until after you leave the cocktail party.
No thanks.
I watched that happen already. It was especially galling watching them make fun of the Anglicized American with the faux-English accent — “he actually thinks he’s ENGLISH!”
CitizenGeek
It’s looking really, really bad in California right now. If Californians won’t allow gay marriage, then we are much further behind than I had thought!
Wolf
Considering the quite OPEN Support of the Mormon Church I blieve we should all push for for them to lose their TAX EMEMPT Status and also that Paligimany Laws be enforced especially in Arizona.
Commonlad
You guys should just move up here to Canada. It’s a lot colder, but at least people aren’t paying millions dollars to stop you from marrying.
Psychofag
Calm down guys..you´ll always be welcome here in Canada….
Jsun
Wolf,
I completely agree with you especially since our government has so much huge debt I think a 10%+ church tax would help our US budget considerably.
Let start this rolling now.
ZeeLee
Results so far:
51.9%
48.1%
f–k it, we’re losing!! GO VOTE PEOPLE!
ZL
chadnnocal
Voted against prop 8, it did absolutely no good.
I must realize I live in a state, in country that supports hated and charges me taxes to support their agenda of hate.
This is not a morning to celebrate, that is for sure.
Dave
Let’s take a page from those far righters and start collecting signatures for a proposition to overturn their acts of hate. Start today and let them know that this is about equality and we are going to fight for it.
frank kameny
To the contrary, this IS a morning to celebrate. Obama won, which does suck, but that will only be 8 years…4 if he goes Jimmy Carter on America. But the fact that Prop 8 will pass is truly joyous news.
See what happens when a group gets so militant, so strident and obnoxious? It pisses people off. People who were on the fence get turned off by the antics.
So keep having your ridiculous “pride” events where you figuratively and literally give the middle finger to us normal people. Keep telling us we must accept the lifestyle you choose. Yes, I said “choose”.
Keep going to court in attempts to usurp the undeniable will of the people.
Here’s an idea: See if you can get an initiative on the ballot that would legalize gay “marriage”. But you won’t. Because you know it would get crushed.
So “WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT,” gay “marriage” ain’t happnin’.
Dave
Frankee why do you ‘choose’ to go to this website? Honestly if you don’t like it then stop staring, its rude. You may think you have won but we know exactly how much things have changed since 22 when there was approximately 23 point difference between the two sides that was 8 years ago I think we can overcome a 4 point difference before the next election – what say you, brothers and sisters?
SHoskins
I am so sick of you holy fckn idiots. Even our President elect recognizes gay people as a integral part of our country in which we ALL pay taxes and deserve the same rights.
All you can think about is the sex. Sex doesnt make you gay. Who you love does. Call us perverts? Go fck yourself.
“Eight years ago, Californians voted 61% to define marriage as being only between a man and a woman.
The California Supreme Court overturned that measure, Proposition 22, in its May 15 decision legalizing same-sex marriage on the grounds that the state Constitution required equal treatment of gay and lesbian couples.
Opponents of Proposition 8 faced a difficult challenge. Bob Stern, president of the Center for Governmental Studies, said California voters “very, very rarely reverse themselves” especially in such a short time. Both sides waged a passionate — and at times bitter — fight over whether to allow same-sex marriages to continue. The campaigns spent tens of millions of dollars in dueling television and radio commercials that blanketed the airwaves for weeks.”
frank kameny
Dave,
Wow, for someone who’s surely all about “diversity”, that’s very “intolerant” of you to object to a dissenting opinion.
Don’t pat yourselves on the back too hard because you narrowed the gap from Prop. 22. For one, the little game of semantics employed by Jerry Brown with the wording of the proposition title…if it would have been kept the way it was, in essence this prop “affirms marriage as between man and woman”, then that’s at least +5 for Yes. But the prejudicial language of “eliminates the right” misleads some people into thinking there was truly a right with which to begin.
Second, and perhaps most important, the definition of marriage as between man and woman will now be codified in the constitution. Voters are typically loathe to AMEND the constitution, but they did. Now go ahead and ask them to repeal what they just passed. As I stated earlier, I welcome gay activists attempting to get an initiative on the ballot. I welcome it because THAT will be defeated so resoundingly that even the most thickest of skulls will finally get the picture.
CHURCHILL-Y
What about it?
“African-Americans voted for Proposition 8 by a 69 percent to 31 percent margin. However, 55 percent of white voters and 52 percent of Hispanics voted against the proposition.”
There’s NO MORE GAY MARRIAGE IN CA.
CHURCHILL-Y
YES WE CAN!!!!
OBAMA WON!!!!
THERE’S HOPE, HOPE MADE A COMEBACK:
“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage.” -OBAMA
“As a Christian — he is a member of the United Church of Christ — Mr. Obama believes that marriage is a sacred union, a blessing from God, and one that is intended for a man and a woman exclusively, according to these supporters and Obama campaign advisers.” -OBAMA
“he does not support it and is not inclined to fight for it, his advisers say.” -OBAMA
http://www.queerty.com/obama-prop-8-unnecessary-but-doesnt-believe-in-gay-marriage-20081103/
THE CHANGE WE NEEDED!
OBAMA’08
psy
@115:
You just offended me. Maybe we should vote to make it illegal now.
frank kameny
Psy,
Make what illegal?
And I offended you? Duly noted. Now ask me if I give a s&%t.
Sam
LOL at the people calling us ‘Poo Pushers’ & ‘turd burglers’. Seriously guys you don’t even sound like you’re old enough to vote.
Only America could prove they’re not stupid and vote for Barack only to then confirm they ARE stupid by voting Yes on Prop 8.
and finally…to the guy who wrote…
“children grades Kindergarten through 12 into your amoral, filthy lifestyle; secure complete control of the media, starting with sitcoms; molest innocent children”
How the hell is that any different from your fucking religion? How is brainwashing children into believing a big guy in the sky made them not a ‘amoral filthy lifestyle’? And I think you’ll find the figures of priests buggering little boys is much higher than gay related sex offences.
John K.
Lol, you bigots make me laugh, even today when I’m obviously in a terrible mood. There are three likely outcomes here:
Prop. 8 actually lost: VERY unlikely, but still technically possible. However, if it’s true, then we win.
Cali Supreme Court rules that Prop. 8 is a revision as opposed to an amendment, and strikes it down, just like it did Prop. 22. That leaves you bigots with only the hope of pursuading 2/3 of the legislature to put the question back on the ballot for a re-vote (not happening in a million years). We win.
We gather signatures and put the question back on the ballot next election. If it passes, we win. If not…
We gather signatures and put the question back on the ballot for the NEXT election. If it passes, we win.
Eventually, a challenge under the federal constitution makes its way to the US Supreme Court, which strikes down every ban in the country. We win BIG!
Any way you slice it, we win! As Mayor Newsom said, whether you like it or not. It’s inevitable.
John K.
More than three likely outcomes, lol…I threw that number in there when I was still brainstorming…
frank kameny
“priests buggering little boys”
Oh, is this the part where you trot out the claim these priests were “pedophiles”? Point of order…when the target is BOYS, they are HOMOSEXUAL pederast priests.
greybat
Frank, you are such an evil man…shouldn’t you be out ripping up marriage licenses today?
frank kameny
John K.
Prop 8 is a constitutional amendment. Is it really that hard to understand? If you actually believe judges will not weigh that differently from Prop 22, which “revised” the Family Code, then you are uninformed.
And as I’ve said, I truly hope gay activists DO manage to get an initiative on the ballot. It will get absolutely decimated at the polls. Good luck with all that.
frank kameny
Greybat,
Evil because I state the truth? And I don’t need to rip up marriage licenses, as Prop 8 has effectively done as much. There was no language dealing with retroactivity, dates, grandfather clauses, etc. It simply states that in CA “only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized.” Ipso facto, all the “marriages” between mid-May and November 4th are “void”.
No doubt this will be a battle in the courts, and maybe I’m wrong. So be it. But I do know that from this point forward, gay “marriages” will not be recognized.
Sam
frank, go back to your little shack and fuck your wife/sister/mother who evidently are all the same person, you narrowminded inbred cunt.
frank kameny
Sam,
Vagisil, aisle 9.
SHoskins
Dr. Kameny,
In your life time you WILL see legal and protected gay marriage.
greybat
He’s not really a doctor, Shoskins. The real Dr. Frank Kameny is a founder of the Gay Liberation movement, and well worth researching a bit.
This guy’s nobody.
frank kameny
Greybat,
Congratulations for being the first to finally get it. Yes, your “brethren” should look him up. And understand that in 1973, it was his and others’ activism and political pressure, not any scientific or medical “breakthrough”, that forced a vote of the APA to remove homosexuality as a disorder from DSM-II.
afrolito
Judging by the ugly racist comments here, i’m not realy sad about prop 8 today.
John K.
Frank:
When you spend a week in law school, then open your big, useless mouth. “Revision” is a very specific term applied to constitutional changes in california. Prop. 22 did not “revise” the family code. And of course the Court will weigh Prop. 8 DIFFERENTLY from Prop. 22. This is a completely separate issue. The new question before the court will be whether Prop. 8 makes such a big change to the constitution that it requires the legislature’s involvement rather than just a vote of the people. This is actual law in California, not something I made up. Now, of course the Court COULD rule that Prop. 8 is a mere “amendment.” However, Prop. 8 singles out a group of people previously ruled to be a protected class (makes an exception to equal protection) and denies them the fundamental right to marriage (exception to due process and privacy). There’s a very good chance it will be ruled a “revision” and be invalidated. Again, if you have some actual legal analysis to add rather than your ridiculous conclusory garbage statements, I’d be happy to hear it.
And I’m sure gay marriage will be “decimated” at the polls just like it was yesterday by 2 points. How much did Prop. 22 win by again? about 12 points? You’re losing. It’s only a matter of time. Keep pouring your money and your church’s money into this. You’re flushing it right down the toilet.
John K.
More on revision v. amendment:
http://www.metnews.com/articles/2008/inmyopinion052108.htm
SHoskins
I had used “Dr” as a confrontation, we know your using an alias. But why?
frank kameny
John,
If the title/summary wording had been left as-is, “affirming marriage as between man and woman”, THIS vote would have been a route. I suspect you know that. But Jerry Brown succeeded in playing a trick with semantics which, without question, greatly helped the “No” side. But even with rigging how the question was framed, Prop 8 STILL passed.
And yes, if gay activists can manage to get an initiative on the ballot that would “legalize” so-called gay marriage, it will get crushed by upwards of 8 points. Who knows, perhaps whoever is AG when that happens will change the wording of the proposition to “eliminates the will of the people”.
And Prop 8 will be upheld as a “constitutional” amendment.
John K.
Oh, say it ain’t so Frank, now there you go again with your conclusory garbage statements: “And Prop 8 will be upheld as a “constitutional” amendment.” Now daggonnit you have to learn to listen when people speak:
Your placing “constitutional” in quotations instead of “amendment” shows that you CONTINUE to have absolutely no grasp on this issue. Your small brain is apparently incapable of this type of legal analysis. This is not about whether this is statutory or constitutional; it’s about whether it’s an amendment or a revision to the constitution. I’ve already made my argument and provided some case law, to which you haven’t responded.
As far as the wording goes, Jerry Brown’s wording was correct. This proposition was about taking away the rights of gay couples to marry. It does not affect heterosexual unions one bit. Perhaps you are correct that the wording played a part in closing the gap, but it rightly should have. “Affirming marriage as between man and woman” does not disclose the full impact of this provision. People who aren’t following the debate may not even realize that this is really about keeping gays from getting married. Gays may not even cross their minds when they hit the “yes” button because OF COURSE who’s going to vote “no” if they don’t understand what the issue is. Jerry Brown’s wording was direct and right on point. Congrats on winning anyway; as I have already laid out, you’re going to lose in the long-run.
Have a hate-free day.
szzy
Well I am a young black married hetero(who had bi tendencies LOL)..who is is Christian..& I pray for the day when we ALL can be free to marry..love..have children..the government should NEVER be involved in who can marry & who cannot. My heart goes out to all the lovelies
frank kameny
John,
Gee whiz, don’t have a hissy and get all hysterical on me. Actually, my tiny pea brain can muster just enough capacity to understand very well that, as yet, there is no resolution to the “revision vs. amendment” issue. It’s not like this is a shock to anyone that’s been following the issue.
I know that although they didn’t issue a ruling, the very same CSC that struck down Prop 22 in May subsequently denied the petition to remove Prop 8 from the ballot over this very issue.
So call it “conclusory garbage”, a hunch, gut feeling, or premonition for all I care. My money is on it’s deemed an amendment and the CA Constitution will state that only marriage between a man and woman is valid or recognized.
And nice bit about the hate-free day…very amusing how imbeciles can’t conceive of the notion that some people can stand behind their convictions with nary a drop of malice or hate. And gosh, I would never say that I hate my own sister and her “partner”.
greybat
Well, you probably wouldn’t say it to her face. But those parentheses say a great deal just on their own.
Since you have voted to make your sister a second-class citizen, I dare say you love her in a second-class, provisional sort of way. And regard her partner as a sort of fuck-buddy. Someone you speak politely to, but wish would just go away.
Your “convictions” are the convictions of a malicious, hateful person. I feel sorry for your sister, who has to endure the presence of a “brother” like you.
John K.
I feel sorry for your sister for having been cursed with having you as a brother. Please tell her I said that. Perhaps my use of the word “hate” is technically incorrect. Substitute contempt, disrespect, foolishness, lack of compassion. You obviously feel this for your sister’s relationship, since you find it necessary to put her “partner’s” disignation in scare quotes. Whatever you’re feeling, it certainly isn’t love.
As you said, the issue has not been determined yet. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize why the Court declined to rule before the election. Why should it put itself any further in the line of fire when it can give the people a chance to do the right thing themselves instead? Of course, now that the people failed yet again, the Court has to step in and fix their mess (yes, I am an unrepentant elitist. I think educate people should be making these decisions, not the stupid masses who don’t consider anyone’s interests but themselves, and even get that wrong half the time, i.e., Joe the Plumber thinking McCain was better for him).
In any event, the Court will have little choice but to rule on the substance of the question now, and if you read the precedent and consider the issue objectively, seems to lean much more toward revision to me.
John K.
Damn Greybat, I wish I would have thought to put “brother” in quotes in my last post, lol. That was very appropriate.
frank kameny
Greybat,
Those are quotation marks, not parentheses. And I did it to see if I would get the ho-hum predictable response(s). I was correct.
>And regard her partner as a sort of fuck-buddy.Your “convictions” are the convictions of a malicious, hateful person.<
Incorrect. And apparently your convictions are that of a haggard old queen who hates the democratic process when it doesn’t go in your favor.
frank kameny
Greybat,
Those are quotation marks, not parentheses. And I did it to see if I would get the ho-hum predictable response(s). I was correct.
“And regard her partner as a sort of fuck-buddy.”
I get along “fabulously” with her, same as with my sister. And they know exactly where I stand on the issue: I supported the passage of the DPRRA, but am opposed to same-sex “marriage”. And while they disagree with me, I’ll be damned if they aren’t considerably more understanding of my right to have an opinion than so many who profess to be paragons of “tolerance”…but only if you think like they do.
“Your “convictions” are the convictions of a malicious, hateful person.”
Incorrect. And apparently your convictions are that of a haggard old queen who hates the democratic process when it doesn’t go in your favor.
greybat
“Fabulous” in the sense of something mythical or non-existent?
And yes, today is my day to BE a haggard old queen!
Unlike you, who will be exactly the creature you are now for the rest of your life.
frank kameny
Greybat,
“”Fabulous” in the sense of something mythical or non-existent?”
Something quite real. And I just really like using that word, and threw in the quotes because I know how much you like them.
You’re welcome.
“Unlike you, who will be exactly the creature you are now for the rest of your life.”
If I am to remain an honest, industrious, inquisitive, hard-working, generous, and charitable person for the rest of my days, then I will consider myself a fortunate soul.
Well, I must be off, do keep yourself well.
John K.
I’ve got something to add to the protests that should come out of this. We should start targeting random straight weddings with protests. People apparently don’t have the decency to turn out to support us unless it affects them, so let’s make it affect them. If you have a wedding in California, you run the risk of angry gay protesters standing at the gates of the banquet hall in all of our glory. Again, more for your children to see.
John K.
You think we’re a threat to marriage? We can be if you want us to.
greybat
Oh we can do far worse than that! Let’s design really ugly wedding dresses…with lots of horizontal style lines. And big, big flounces.
Or, even worse…let the bride’s mothers design the dresses!
CHURCHILL-Y
What bout it!/?:
http://www.cbs2.com/video/[email protected]
michael
Frank, don’t you know by now that we all know that you are just a big self loathing fag yourself? You get so much energy out of all of this because your a simpleton that does not know basic psychology. Jesus, go get some help. If you have raped little boys then go turn yourself in. If you cannot stay off the gay porn, the hit an SAA meeting. But Jesus Fucking Christ stop wasting our time because we know exactly what you are.
boytroy
No. 135 · afrolito
Judging by the ugly racist comments here, i’m not realy sad about prop 8 today.
We don’t expect you to be sad. Your comment shows that you really don’t give a shit about what has happened to gay people but only to your selfish, self centered self. If you have not figured out by now that you are not one of us then maybe your more of a simpleton than you seem.
Should you not be meeting with “your kind” right now strategizing how you can see that the same things happen in other states? I think there are over 20 that need to see that gays
get no where so stop wasting time here and get on with it boy!
WOW
I have to agree!
Frank K, Please lay off the German-Gay-Midget-Porn. For your own good.