Canadian gay-porn actor Rocco Luka Magnotta, 29, is wanted by police in connection with a possible murder and dismemberment, as body parts mailed to various political organizations have been discovered.
Murder She Wrote, this ain’t.
On Tuesday, staffers at the Conservative Party of Canada received a human foot in the mail. Later, a human hand was found inside a postal sorting center, addressed to the offices of Canada’s Liberal Party. The limbs were traced back to a headless torso found inside a suitcase near Magnotta’s apartment building in Montreal.
The Global Post reports that the police may have a video that shows Magnotta dismembering the body. “The most important thing for us is to nab the suspect, and to make sure we don’t jeopardize a future trial,” said Montreal police Cmdr. Ian Lafreniere.
Police issued a Canada-wide warrant today, and said they couldn’t rule out more body parts are in the mail, the Globe and Mail reported.
Lafreniere said that the victim and suspect knew each other, but wouldn’t divulge many more details.
They did suggest the crime scene where they believe the dismembering took place was among the most horrific detectives had ever witnessed.
“Some body parts are missing,” Lafreniere said, according to the Globe.
Magnotta, who claims to be bisexual, appeared in webcam shows and nearly 20 adult movies under various names. In an interview with NowPublic News, he said aspiring porn actors should “”have a back up plan for when the party is over,” adding “I get a lot of attention because of how I look and once that’s gone, people can lose it—a lot of people just cant handle getting old.”
This isn’t the first time Magnotta has been the subject of scandal in the Great White North. In 2008, it was alleged he dated Karla Homolka, who went to prison for helping her ex-husband kill and rape three girls in the early 1990s. “The rumors destroyed my life, basically,” Magnotta told the Toronto Sun. “I’ve been
receiving death threats… I’m about to have a nervous breakdown; my reputation has been ruined.”
If that wasn’t a bad enough blow to his reputation, a video apparently surfaced that showed Magnotta killing some kittens.
On his website, Magnotta has strange, rambling posts attacking the judicial system, media propaganda and cyberstalking:
“People are very susceptible to suggestion, it is unbelievable. It literally amazes me,” Magnotta posted. “The medias propaganda machine is accepted as FACT without any independent verification by viewers, society in general more often then not, believes everything they see and read. There is always TWO sides to every story. Don’t forget that.”
Photos: Luka-magnotta.com
jason
Magnotta is part of the grubby and vile porn industry. This is not a nice industry at all. Many porn performers – I refuse to call them stars – are unbalanced individuals with drug problems.
dany
@jason:
yeah but they’re hot
Christopher
@jason: Thanks for your insight Jason…so where does your inside knowledge come from? Do you work in the industry? If you are aware of the “many” porn stars that ar “unbalanced” individuals, you must have some personal knowledge. Or are you just spouting beliefs without evidence?
My personal experience tells me that usually the people talking about the “vile” porn industry, are usually the ones with the largest kinkiest collections.
I am a photographer and I have worked with a significant number of people in the Industry, and I find that thero are a wide variety of personalities and types, just like any aspect of the entertainment business.
R. Williams
Life is stranger thanfiction ! Apparently his real last name is now suspected to be Newman, say police and more of what are suspected to be his online postings are being discovered by the media http://forums.undergroundhiphop.com/readpost.asp?Forum=Common&Whichpage=13&QuestionID=2013307
Jabaroo
Watched this on the news this morning. VERY fucked up, the guy is messed, though not surprising after what he did to those cats. I’d hate to be the person who opened that package.
Carl
“Claims to be bisexual”? A horrific story like this and Queerty still has to throw in a healthy dose of bi-bashing, doesn’t it? His sexuality – which is a seperate matter fromhis career – is irrelevant to the story and especially when it’s addressed in the time-honoured “bisexuality isn’t real” way presented here. This is no better thn the articles in right wing media that mention someone’s homosexuality to make the story seem ‘worse’. Shame on you, Queerty.
As for the actual story, I hope they catch up with this guy soon.
Ryan
Hi I’m writing from Canada, where the whole foot-in-the-mail thing was all over the air before they knew there was a gay porn star involved. I’m just wondering if anyone in the states knows whether CNN was reporting this yesterday or the day before, before they knew their was a gay connection. ‘Cause I don’t think they where and then this afternoon it’s all over.
…just wondering if they’re only interest is in the psycho-gay part and if it weren’t for that they wouldn’t even tough it. ‘Cause since when does CNN give a shit about Canada?
R.A.
@Carl:
You think the line “claiming to be bisexual” is bi-bashing?
Well then, let’s take him at his word and from now on call him a “Bisexual Porn Star.”
jj
@Christopher: I think its a fair assumption to say that a large percentage of gay porn stars have major drug/ alcohol issues. How many porn stars do you hear about that just retire and go on to live a normal life? None, they always overdose or commit suicide or end up in jail.
Dick Grayson
Always?
ron
The murder video is already online. Just search for “1 lunatic 1 ice pick” …very graphic. The victim is an asian male. His kitten killing videos are online as well…one sick pervert.
marc
Who cares that he is gay? what does that add to the story?
How tall was he?
how much did he weigh?
did he have 10 toes and fingers?
did he have a belly button?
What is his natural hair colour?
THESE NEED ANSWERS QUEERTY!
Alexi3
@Ryan: You know Ryan, I hadn’t thought about this at all but your point is well taken. And, it’s not just the media in the States. For a long time I’ve noticed the strange attitude many Americans take toward Canada. It’s almost like Canada, as an independent, sovereign nation, with its own culture doesn’t actually exist. When most Americans think about Canada at all it’s as if it were some defacto appendage of the United States.
Joe stratford
Gross.
Nat
@Christopher:
“I am a photographer and I have worked with a significant number of people in the Industry, and I find that thero are a wide variety of personalities and types, just like any aspect of the entertainment business.”
And the entertainment business experiences higher-than-average drug abuse issues, and professional porn is even more apparent. Vile might not be the right word for the industry; I don’t think there’s anything morally wrong about selling your body for sex in any format. But let’s not pretend that the vast majority of people who make their living in porn or prostitution are well-balanced individuals.
Chris
This individual apparently appeared in films with both men and women, yet Queerty dutifully repeats the media’s homophobic categorization of him as a “gay” porn star and says he “claims” to be bisexual. With “reporting” like this, we are truly our own worst enemies.
Seaguy
@jason: That’s a pretty judgemental statement sounds like you have issues with porn in general which is fine don’t buy it. But to attack all porn industry workers like that is not right. How would you like it if someone did that to you? And some of us like porn so we buy it. That is how things work in a free country.
Belize
@jason: “Magnotta is part of the grubby and vile porn industry. This is not a nice industry at all.”
Translation: I live with my mother
“Many porn performers – I refuse to call them stars – are unbalanced individuals with drug problems.”
Translation: They don’t want to have sex with me even though I have money.
Seaguy
His website is down:
Service Temporarily Unavailable
The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later.
Apache Server at luka-magnotta.com Port 80
Belize
@dany:
“@jason:
yeah but they’re hot”
Which I’m sure is far MORE than what they can say about Queen Jason.
Belize
@Seaguy: “How would you like it if someone did that to you?”
Are you suggesting that someone would actually want to hire Jason? LOL. I didn’t realize that the Christine O’Donnell political team is still open for business after that whole “I’m not a witch” drama
reason_sf
@Ryan: Yes, this was in the news here in the States before the gay connection was known. It was featured on the CNN app (I don’t watch CNN, but I read its feed), and it was on the other newswires as well.
I take your point about people in the States not knowing as much as they should about our neighbor to the north, but I would not look for any Canada-bashing in the handling of this story. It just went from oddity to triple oddity overnight.
Jabaroo
“Photo of what appears to be Karla Homolka with Luka Magnotta”. He denied that he even knew her.
https://twitter.com/Org9/status/207993025975169024
Clockwork
Another Dahmer, Cunanan.
That video may give me nightmares, looks like what happens when young men do meth.
mc
The Yahoo story & their link to ABC news story don’t mention that the suspect is a porn actor. I’m sure that little detail will be added soon.
I think the mailing of a foot and the gruesome crime scene was enough to make this a news story covered in the US. Considering this week we’ve already had the Miami zombie story & Mexican mom who gouged out her child’s eye story, this is just one more story to complete the macabre crime trifecta.
Sheldon
I hope he goes to jail for killing kittens.
me
http://www.4shared.com/video/3RRTPn9e/1_lunatic_1_ice_pick_video_is_.html
The video!
I think it’s really him! It looks like they had sex before and after the murder. The guy is clearly gay and have some sort crazy fetish!!
Ron
1. He was born “Eric Clinton Newman”. wonder why news stories don’t use his real name.
2. isn’t it a bit odd that he’s labeled an adult entertainer, yet it is impossible to find so much as a semi-nude of him online?
skylerm
I find it rather disturbing that he would fuck a dead body! And the use the hand of the carcass to masturbate with! O.o
Carl
@R.A.: The point is that his sexuality is irrelevant. His career may be, so is worth mentioning. On top of that is the way it is written. Tell me, if a story about Elton John and David Furnish featured the words “Elton and David, who claim to be gay and in a relationship, decided…” would that be okay? Of course not. The language used is dismissive of bisexuality as a genuine sexual orientation, a major problem within the queer community.
And again, I point out that his sexuality is irrelevant to the story, so why even bring it up – especially in such narrow minded language – unless the intent was to lip in a quick barb at bisexuals?
JayUVA
I saw the alleged killing video and it can’t be unseen. The person presumably Magnotta attacking is so calm and does not appear to be frenzied or drugged up, just calm and methodical – which is actually scarier to me. He should be found pretty soon; surely nobody in his/her right mind will help hide him considering the risk – legally and, um, otherwise.
Mangina
This is turning out to be another Andrew Cunanan story.
Red Assault
@Nat: Nope.
I worked for years as a buyer in a bunch of different corporate settings. I worked in a few offices. And I now work in the adult industry. And I can tell you without a doubt that I saw more drug abuse in the corporate world than I’ve EVER seen in the adult industry. People getting up to “go to the bathroom” and coming back 10 minutes later sniffing and wiping their noses, coming back from lunch drunk, showing up on Friday and Monday morning hung over… still drunk.
I saw so much sexual harassment, bak stabbing and just rotten people. I just don’t see that in the porn industry.
This young man is clearly mentally ill. Probably unmedicated and didn’t get the help he needed. It’s too bad. Seems that he at least had moments of clarity where he realized that life wasn’t going to always be people fawning over him for being a hot young man.
And calling him a porn star is a stretch. He did camming… every college kid does that. And then he was in a few direct to web MILF videos as “the cock.”
DenverBarbie
@jj: That’s not entirely accurate. We hear of models who crash and burn post-career more than those who simply fade into obscurity to lead regular lives because that’s how news works. A porn star dead from drugs is just more “sensational” than a porn star who took up a 9-5er. The porn industry is made up of a mixture of people ranging from grossly sleazy to incredibly ambitious (and maybe sometimes both). That is truly not too different from any other industry. (My god, think of lawyers!)
Geri
@R.A.: “Claims to be bisexual” is one of the bi-basher’s stock phrases. If Queerty knows he identifies as bisexual then Queerty could have simply said: “Magnotta, who identifies as bisexual, appeared in webcam shows and nearly 20 adult movies under various names.” instead.
Incidentally most of the adult videos he’s appeared are MILF porn, not gay porn. Most news reports seem to be referring to him just as “a porn actor.”
mayte
OMG Why did I have to go and watch that video…
Brad007
We’re still interested in porn “stars”? Isn’t that so 30+ years ago? And in this day and age of super bugs why do we encourage young people so watch these antics?
Rooney
Is this the new alias Victoria Bitter/Amy Player/Jordan Wood/Andrew Blake goes under then?
mattsy
DO NOT WATCH THE VIDEO!!!! I WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO UNSEE THAT!!!!!
Larkin
He’s cute. I’d date him.
R.A.
@Geri:
You are seriously suggesting that Queerty is bashing this murderer and animal-torturer by questioning what he says about himself? Are we now expected to take the transgender ideology of “I am what I say I am” beyond just gender identification to absolutely every person and every circumstance – and in this case, to a lunatic?
@Carl (30)
“Tell me, if a story about Elton John and David Furnish featured the words ‘Elton and David,’ who claim to be gay and in a relationship, decided…”
Actually, didn’t Elton John “claim to be bisexual” for years despite all evidence to the contrary? For all I know the heir to Liberace’s throne (who always “claimed to be straight,” BTW) still does.
TomMc
… and to add yet another posting similar to some of the above, please consider carefully before you view the video of the alleged murder. I watched it last night – though I loathe gory things in general – and have had a hard time ‘forgetting’ it. It’s disturbing on so many levels. *Ugh*
Mike
I agree with Carl:
“Claims to be bisexual”? A horrific story like this and Queerty still has to throw in a healthy dose of bi-bashing, doesn’t it? His sexuality – which is a seperate matter fromhis career – is irrelevant to the story and especially when it’s addressed in the time-honoured “bisexuality isn’t real” way presented here. This is no better thn the articles in right wing media that mention someone’s homosexuality to make the story seem ‘worse’. Shame on you, Queerty.
R.A. y es this is biphobia and/or bisexual erasure. Then again you don’t see queerty claiming that a gay man or lesbian woman “claims to be gay or lesbian”.
I’m not going to watch the video.
R.A.
Hey Mike, I guess you’ll just ignore my points and keep repeating politically correct nonsense.
So, let me agree with you.
Shame on you, Queerty for using this article as an opportunity to bash bisexuals.
This psychopathic murderer and animal-torture is without a doubt a bisexual. He said so himself, and as we all know, everyone is always what they say they are – even criminals, liars and lunatics.
And, while we’re at it, let’s not discuss gay men in the closet as that is gay-bashing because they must be actually straight if they identify as straight.
Geri
@R.A.: Well, you probably don’t get it because you’re not bisexual. This lunatic has apparently had sex with men and women. That’s bisexual behaviour. So there’s really nothing useful to be gained in questioning whether he’s really bisexual or not. I don’t think anyone here has been complaining about Queerty bashing Luka Magnotta. I certainly haven’t.
And as far as I’m concerned Elton John could quite reasonably still identify as bisexual considering he said he loved his ex-wife and enjoyed the sex he had with her. Ref: Elton John: Me, Myself & I documentary. But if he’s happier identifying as gay now he has a husband that’s OK by me – but I certainly don’t believe it’s necessary.
Carl
@R.A.: Wow, the point totally sailed over you head, didn’t it? Whether he is or is not bisexual (and I used Elton not for his past but his current position as one of the worlds most famous gay men. If it helps you grasp the simple point, replace Elton with Neil Patrick Harris, I’m just British so picked the obvious choice given that) is not the subject and is, once again, largely irrelevant (see later) to the actual story. I – and others – have simply called out the biphobic language used in bringing the subject matter up. I take it you have no objection if, every time you post, I add “R.A., who claims to be gay, said…”?
Saying he “claims” to be bisexual serves to support the notion that bisexuality is a ‘phase’ (homosexuality was a ‘phase’ for me, until I had the courage to come out properly as a bisexual man. I wish I’d never lived that lie for so many years, what a waste, hiding who I am) and worse, subconsciously serves to connect bisexuality with danger. It’s nasty, blind reporting by Queerty.
At the end of the day, this is a story about a dangerous individual who committed a horrific crime. That should be the focus of the article, not slipping in a sly barb at bisexualty. I do think that his sexuality deserved some mention, but more to warn ANY potential partner to stay the hell away. This would be best done by stating “the suspect, who is bisexual, is considered extremely dangerous and anyone coming into contact with him, regardless of gender, is at risk and should contact police immediately”. See how this avoids any sensationalim of his sexuality whilst providing relevant information?
But then again, biphobic attitudes and language on Queerty is hardly new, is it?
Carl
@Geri: I’m beginning to think that trying to explain this matter to R.A, who identifies as homosexual, is a waste of effort. He just doesn’t seem to grasp that language can be a dangerous tool. So I guess it’s okay to call him a fa**ot.
I don’t get how he can’t grasp that questioning phobic language isn’t “politically correct nonsense”, but rather challenging bigotry…
I guess R.A, who identifies as homosexual, has used poppers a little too often (since *all* gays use poppers) and damaged their brain.
Patrick
@jj: “How many porn stars do you hear about that just retire and go on to live a normal life? None, they always overdose or commit suicide or end up in jail.”
You answered it yourself “That you hear about”. You think you’re going to HEAR about the normal ones?
Unless you keep track of every single porn actor out there, you can’t say which is the majority (but I’m betting you it’s not the ODing, suicidal ones)
Doot
Look, it’s easy.
When a dude says he’s bi, he’s gay.
When a chick says she’s bi, she’s straight.
any questions?
christopher di crapito
Um, hello? Back to the topic at hand?
Drew
Doot-way to promote bisexual erasure and biphobia. You’re just as bad as the people from the Westboro Baptist church, the Bachmanns, and Rick Santorum, Herman Cain, etc.
This f*$# is sick and I don’t care what his sexuality is I hope he is caught fast and never sees freedom again. It’s too bad Canada does not have the death penalty.
R.A.
@Doot:
That is a tenant of trans-feminism specific to gender identification. In that case, the person in question is expressing their gender through their choice of dress, hair style, etc.
But extending this to sexual orientation? Ever heard of “the closet?” Larry Craig? Oscar Wilde? Catholic priests? Liza Minelli’s ex-husbands?
I’ll bet ninety percent of Queerty posters have at least once in their lives have pretended to be what they are not.
Bill
R.A. Oscar Wilde was out as bisexual but then again so was D.H. Lawrence, W. Somerset Maugham, and other writers of that generation.
Mrs. Patrick Campbell
We hope this murderer of animals and humans is caught! Canada is WAY too lenient with its criminals since it got rid of the death penalty, and there have been juveniles who committed murder such as a few teenage fish who went psycho and killed their parents or siblings as teenagers, and after they got out of a juvenile detention center and were legal adults they were allowed their freedom back into society and given a new name and new identification! These psychopaths should be locked up for the rest of their lives!
R.A.
@Bill:
Bill, I’m interested – when exactly did Oscar Wilde “come out” as a bisexual?
As far as I know, the term “bisexual” was around in 1825, but it was similar to hermaphrodite and described a person or animal possessing attributes of both sexes.
According to O.E.D., “bisexuality” as an orientation first appears in 1914 by which time Oscar Wilde was dead.
Jay
Oscar Wilde certainly wasn’t gay/homosexual that’s for sure.
He came out as bisexual in his writings and in his own private life. Don’t you know anything about him?
Carl
@Jay: I think R.A, who claims to be gay, is fixating on Wilde not using the term “bisexual”. As you state, since in his writing and private life he identifies as someone attracted to men and women, he was bisexual. Of course, the term did not exist then so he didn’t use it.
Cory
R.A. What’s your point? The terms homosexual and even gay were not used for very long periods of time either until the late 1880s but that does not mean that gay men and lesbians-as well as bisexuals did not exist before these terms did and people started identifying as gay, lesbian, or bisexual.
Jake
Why is stupid queerty focusing on how this guy is or “might be” bisexual? I agree that this is nothing but biphobia and bashing bisexual people but that’s what happens at queerty and within the so called LGBT “community” when it comes to bisexuality.
Given the very large number of serial killers who were gay men and some who are lesbian queerty says nothing about these gay men or lesbian women who happened to be serial killers.
Carl
@Jake: To be fair, I don’t think Queerty are overly focusing on his sexuality, the problem is how they addressed it – ie: the language used – that has caused it to blow up in the comments section. And I openly admit to being one of the blower-uppers, because I am sick and tired of all this biphobic bollocks that permeates the lgBt community. I commented above that mentioning his bisexuality would have been fine and dandy in the context of an advisory to men and women to Stay The Hell Away from him and I still think that’s how it should have been handled. But Queerty has big issues with biphobia, so it’s not a huge surprise it appeared in this way.
R.A.
@Jay: Really, Jay? That is certainly interesting to hear that Wilde “came out” as “bisexual” in his writings. I am familiar with same-sex attraction he describes in “The Picture of Dorian Gray” and of course the long letter to the love of his life, Lord Alfred, from prison (“De Profundis”), but I’m not aware of anything professing, confessing or explaining bisexuality.
Can you tell me in which writings I will find this?
R.A.
@Carl:
Carl,
I certainly haven’t read everything by and about Wilde, but you seem to be the expert here.
To the best of my knowledge, Wilde married into some money, produced two children in two years, and from then lied to his wife, moved out, and was very busy with young men.
To most people’s way of thinking, that is a late in life homosexual coming out, but we tend to refer to Wilde as bisexual so as not to be accused of what Drew calls “bisexual erasure.”
Can you tell me in which writings I’ll find where as you say “he identifies as someone attracted to men and women?”
Geri
@Doot: You can say whatever crap you like but in purely practical terms people are either bisexual or not bisexual because of what they actually do or don’t do, not what they say.
Any questions?
Geri
It actually crossed my mind that Queerty might have been trying to suggest Luka Magnotta is only “gay for pay” because there are some reports that state he has only had romantic relationships with women.
Please let’s get real. There is an extremely dangerous sexual murderer on the loose who may well pose a very significant danger to women as well as gay and bisexual men.
DrewSF
I agree Geri who cares what types of porn he’s done? Or what his sexuality is?
“Gay” for pay is just marketing anyway. These guys are bisexual or gay and just marketed as “Straight”. I’ve seen guys who did “Gay” for pay porn and they’re gay and are not sexually attracted to women at all.
As for bisexuality people who are posting here are correct there’s a lot of biphobia and bisexual erasure within the LGBT community and most of it comes from gay men and lesbian women.
R.A.
@DrewSF:
“there’s a lot of biphobia and bisexual erasure within the LGBT community and most of it comes from gay men and lesbian women.”
Do you have a lot of interaction with the trans community? From your statement, they would seem to be all that’s left.
DrewSF
Actually Trans people aren’t that biphobic as many gay men and lesbians are. Then again a lot of trans people are bisexual, or if they’re gay/lesbian, or hetero they don’t care what sexuality someone else is and don’t promote biphobia or bisexual erasure the way many gay men and lesbians do.
R.A.
It seems historically that every persecuted group has its n-word.
Can you tell me what slurs these biphobic gay men and women use toward bisexuals? Does the general public use these words, too and during the commission of a hate crime?
Phil
R.A. you’re a fool if you want to gloss over biphobia or claim that it doesn’t happen from gay men and lesbians. Just read Doot’s reply on this thread. I’ve seen gay men and lesbians call bisexuals ‘closeted fags and dykes’ and just because you want to claim that biphobia and bisexual erasure does not exist doesn’t make it so.
MarieDelta
I agree that there’s TONS of biphobia and bisexual erasure from gay men and lesbian women who are supposedly the allies of us bisexuals; but in reality they are hypocritical bigots and no better than the Bachmanns, Rick Santorum, the Westboro Klan, and others like this.
Geri
@Phil: HTF can out bisexual people be “closeted fags and dykes”? We are fags and dykes and queers! Just ask the Westboro Klan. They’ll give it to you straight.
@R.A.: Apart from the usual tedious shit about being confused, greedy, untrustworthy, hyper-sexual disease ridden sluts, the bi-specific term of abuse that comes from within the LGBT community that I personally really dislike is “fence-sitter”.
Carl
@R.A.: R.A. – who claims to be homosexual – are you really so naive to think that only a “n-word” style insult constitutes discriminatory behaviour? Although there are plenty of terms (switch-hitter, fence-sitter, AC-DC (not the awesome band), confused etc), their use or not doesn’t determine if something is or isn’t biphobic. Is saying all gays are disease ridden fans of casual sex who will die of aids homophobic? Yes it is. But notice how I didn’t use a single slur.
You can bury your head in the sand, R.A (whilst claiming to be gay), but biphobia and bisexual erasure are real, they do occur. And we WILL speak out against them. This article uses language associated with bisexual erasure and that is why several of us hav spoken out about it.
Buberella
@Doot: How about “a chick” that identifies as bi but has been in a monogamous relationship with a woman for twelve years like I have been?
R.A.
@Phil:
“I’ve seen gay men and lesbians call bisexuals ‘closeted fags and dykes’”
Phil, are you telling me that being thought of as gay or lesbian by a gay or lesbian is hate?
Are black people who see our excellent mixed-race President as a black man committing some kind of slur? Is this bi-racial-erasure?
R.A.
@MarieDelta:
“{gay men and lesbians} are hypocritical bigots and no better than the Bachmanns, Rick Santorum, the Westboro Klan
Marie, I don’t think I’ve ever seen gay people campaigning to make bisexuality illegal or gathering at a funeral with “God Hates Bisexuals” signs.
Have you tried valium?
Geri
@R.A.: Telling a person who identifies as bi that they are really gay (or really straight) is at best very disrespectful, and at worst it becomes hateful.
Telling a bisexual woman that she’s really a dyke is just plain ignorant – ignorant of the fact that many dyke identified women are bisexual and may well identify accordingly. Seeking to reclaim a “hate word” for only some of the people it is used against and to exclude others it is used against from reclaiming it is piling up more discrimination on top of discrimination.
Many bisexual people prefer to identify as queer these days. It’s a growing trend. How would you like to be told that you are not really queer you’re just gay?
There is nothing wrong with gay and lesbian identified people claiming a bisexual celebrity as one of their own until they start totally denying that the bisexual celebrity in question is/was even remotely bisexual.
I know a biracial guy who was beaten up by 3 black men who were abusing him for being a “half-caste.” One of these men was wearing a Bob Marley T-Shirt. Just in case you don’t know Bob Marley’s father was white. But Marley is famous, my friend is just a light-skinned “nobody.”
Claiming biphobia doesn’t really exist becomes tantamount to claiming bisexuality doesn’t really exist. The more you claim that biphobia is a non-issue the more it becomes one.
R.A.
@Geri: “Apart from the usual tedious shit about being confused…”
Yep, that what it is. I bet any trans person would trade places if the worst thing they had to deal with were the opinions of gays and lesbians.
Of course there’s resentment and confusion. Gays and bisexual men, lesbian and bi-women – we sleep with each other, fall in love with each other, break up each other. So yes, lesbians who are dumped by their girlfriend for a man may be bitter at bi-women for life. And every gay men has known (or had) enough married guys who first claimed to be straight, then bi, and when the marriage ended, came out as gay to always have a little doubt that it’s just a matter of time when some guy declares the’s bi.
Are these unfair assumptions? Sure, but hate?
I’d say hate is being preoccupied with the idea that you or somebody else thinks you might be gay. That’s called “homophobia.”
R.A.
@Geri:
“How would you like to be told that you are not really queer you’re just gay?”
You know, I wouldn’t give a damn.
All of this ideological crap – and it is crap – just saddens me. It eventually leads to disappointment if not personal disaster.
This is from Wikipedia’s summary of the Father of the Gay Rights Movement:
“Ulrichs was born in Aurich,1825, then part of the Kingdom of Hanover, in north-western Germany. Ulrichs recalled that as a young child he wore girls’ clothes, preferred playing with girls, and wanted to be a girl.”
Today he might be likely diagnosed with GD and put on hormone blockers. That’s what always comes of ideology where anyone who questions anything is beaten down as phobic.
Geri
@R.A.: Trans people often have to deal with biphobia and heterophobia as well as transphobia and homophobia.
I have a friend who is a bi transman who has had far more sexual experience with men than women who has had a lot of issues with gay men being hateful towards him. He has had some issues with lesbians as well. He feels any potential life partner for him must be a bi person whatever their gender. So whereas some people would never date a bi he will now only date a bi.
Oppression begets oppression.
Oppression is multilayered and often internalized to the point of being subconscious. A “gay” calling a “bi” a “fence-sitter” is internalized oppression because it implies that sexuality is a choice – that the “gay” has made a choice between being gay or straight so the “bi” should be doing so as well. The “gay” is in effect supporting the heterosexist view that gays (and bisexuals) could be straight if they would only choose the “right” way instead of the “wrong” way.
And therefore homophobia and biphobia are inextricably linked. Biphobia exists because homophobia exists. You cannot be biphobic without ultimately being homophobic as well – regardless of whether you yourself are homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual.
Geri
@R.A.: “How would you like to be told that you are not really queer you’re just gay?
You know, I wouldn’t give a damn.”
Well there’s the thing. Some gay men and lesbians seem to want to be accepted as totally the same as straights in every way except that they love the same sex instead of the opposite sex.
People are born either straight or gay. That’s a simple enough concept to pitch. Bi and trans people queer that pitch though. We complicate things.
The simplistic concept that everyone is either straight or gay (or at least they should be) makes the compliant “normal” and the non-compliant “queer”.
Carl
@Geri: I’m the same – I have received so much distrust, disdain, negative comments and more from individuals who have mono sexuality that I rarely consider relationships with anyone who isn’t bisexual. It’s just easier – less aggro, less stress, less mistrust. I don’t want to deal with biphobia in my daily life, never mind my relationships. And no matter what R.A so ignorantly claims, biphobia is a real problem within the LGBT community – if it wasn’t, I wouldn’t have decided to predominantly date fellow bisexuals to avoid it.
R.A.
@Carl:
Trust me Carl – it’s not biphobia that causes your failed romances and all that “distrust, disdain, negative comments.”
Imagining that anyone who disagrees with you is “ignorant” indicates an absurdly inflated ego, gross immaturity, and an inablity to maintain an adult non-abusive conversation – not exactly relationship material.
Way back in your post #57, you stated Oscar Wilde “in his writing and private life identifies as someone attracted to men and women.” I asked you for a citation, you failed to deliver, and still you shamelessly persist with cheap insults.
You can claim Wilde as a fellow-traveler all you want. Anyone who’s actually read him knows that brilliant bugger who loved language, ideas and men would never have claimed you.
James M. Martin
@dany: And thereby we have hold of the horns of the dilemma. It is the same as smoking weed. When you light up [watch the porno] you enable thugs south of the border [rotten guys like letter #1 insists of porno players].” What can one do?
Geri
@R.A.: According to Oscar Wilde’s grandson Merlin Holland, Oscar was a heterosexual man who became a homosexual man:
http://www.diary.ru/~OscarWild/p66586333.htm?oam
That’s one way of looking at it I suppose; and it does of course help to explain the existence of Mr Holland himself. But then again, Mr Holland is a heterosexual man, not a bisexual man.
I wonder if he thinks Oscar’s boyfriend, Bosie, was a homosexual man who became heterosexual man? I don’t. I think Alfred Lord Douglas was a bisexual man who married a bisexual woman. However R.A., I’d hazard a guess that you would probably think he was almost certainly a gay man who married a lesbian.
R.A.
Yes, the family has a rather antique way of looking at things.
But really, gay men are perfectly capable of rising to the occasion with a woman and even producing offspring. And while his gay-sexual initiation may have been post-marriage, Oscar was a flaming queen long before he discovered Bosie or the rough trade which was his real fascination.
Carl
More bisexual erasure from R.A. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck… All the available evidence points to Wilde being bisexual with a greater preference for men. It’s a common misconception that bisexuals have to be equally attracted to both sexes, but that isn’t necessarily true. I have a slight preference for women over men (if I was to put a figure on it, a 65-35 ratio. But I know someone where that is the opposite, preferring her fellow women more than men), but that doesn’t mean I’m straight, because the things I’d happily do to Orlando Bloom and Kiera Knightly show I’m not…
We see this a lot with historical figures though, Sappho (who is the origin of the terms sapphic and lesbian) is a good example. She is widely regarded as being a lesbian, but this may not be true. All the historical evidence and her remaining poetry indicate that she was bisexual in behaviour. Obviously, she would not have used the term, since it is a modern invention. But all this really shows us is that the current restrictive terms relating to sexuality – hetero and homo – are relatively recent and that in the past, people appear to have been less enamoured of tightly defining someone based on their sexual attractions. It’s a relatively new occurrence, even in the church – just a few centuries ago churches happily joined same-sex couples in religious ceremonies.
R.A.
“All the available evidence points to Wilde being bisexual with a greater preference for men.”
No.
All the available evidence shows Wilde to have been a once-married man who decided his wife was physically “repellent” when pregnant with their second child and never expressed any sexual or romantic interest in women ever again. Meanwhile, he lionized what was called then “Greek Love” and wrote rapturously about the beauty of his barely legal young men from the lower classes.
In 1862 Karl Urich coined the word “Urning” for a male who desires men (which became “Uranian” in English.) Ulrich wrote that such men had a “female psyche in a male body.”
Here’s Wilde in 1868 in a letter to his lifelong gay friend and intimate Robert Ross:
“To have altered my life would have been to have admitted that Uranian love is ignoble. I hold it to be noble – more noble than other forms.”
If it weren’t for his writing, Wilde wouldn’t be remembered as just gay but as a negative gay stereotype.
****
Speaking of negative stereotypes, back to you, dear Carl.
I can not imagine how desperate a gay man would have to be to get involved with a bisexual who prefers women 65/35.
That you could profess a PREFERENCE for the sex your lover is not and and then blame him for the “drama… distrust” and demise of the relationship has got to be borderline insanity.
Aimee
I don’t understand why sexuality was brought up in the article or why it is the focus of discussion. A man was brutally mudered by this psycho. Who cares if he is gay, straight or bi? He is a murderer. His victim deserves better than his death being a footnote to a discussion on the bigotry the bisexual community faces. I think most people would agree that no one should be marginalized due to who they love or are attracted to, but the focus should be on hoping this man is held accoutantable for the death of Jun Lin.
Carl 1
@R.A.: It’s like trying to have a conversation with a wall. You go on living in your fantasy land, R.A. The rest of us will stay here in the real world. You carry on with your attempts at pushing bisexuals under the rug, it won’t work. We’re here – and have always been here – to stay.
And once again, you show your complete and total ignorance of the complex issue of sexuality. Just because I am, generally, attracted to women more than men has no bearing on any relationship I may have with a man when in one, it just means such a relationship is initially less likely to occur. When I am in a relationship, I am completely monogamous. Oddly enough, it’s the other party who has cheated. And attitudes like yours are exactly the reason I rarely look to gay men for relationships: I can’t be bothered dealing with their issues, I’ve got enough of my own thank you very much!
Tell me, if someone has a greater attraction to redheads over brunettes, does that mean that any relationship they have with a brunette is going to suffer? Of course not, that would be a crazy and ignorant assumption to make – just as your assertion that my preference for women would hamper any relationship is also ignorant and more than a little crazy and bigoted. You know, I kind of pity people so will fully ignorant and hateful as you have demonstrated, life must be awful for you. You’re no better than those who oppose LGBT rights.
Carl 1
@Aimee: I have asked before why it was brought up in the manner I was (in follow up articles, Queerty’s language regarding his sexuality has been far less inflammatory). Everyone seems to be in agreement that this is a truly horrific crime. Th reason for the debate over sexuality is because of the language Queerty used, which – intentionally or not – helps support the oft held viewpoint of man that bisexuals can’t be trusted, are unstable and even dangerous (just look at R.A’s comments to see a shining example of this). If the article was about a gay man who committed this horrible crime and used language that implicated his sexuality was a cause of it, how would people respond? With outrage, obviously. So why is it wrong for bisexuals to be offended by the language in this story?
R.A.
@Carl 1:
Carl,
There you go again, just ignoring every fact presented and repeating your idiotic ideological assertions and hurling lame insults.
You should find yourself a nice bisexual man who thinks ideology is superior to rational thought and who tells you he prefers women to men.
Or maybe you have a future in Scientology.
We are done.
Carl 1
@Carl 1: No, R.A, it is YOU who is ignoring HISTORY in your childish attempts to support your vile biphobia. You ignore everything except your own hatred and prejudice. It must be awful to be so hateful. Throwing around wild insinuations and lashings of prejudice, people like you are why there are many negative stereotypes of gay men.
I prefer FACTS and HISTORY over the hate and propaganda you embrace. Oh and I’m a Buddhist, Scientology seems more appropriate for you: they like to twist reality to suit their own fantasies as well. Farewell oh hateful one. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out…
Carl 1
@R.A.: Also, you appear to harbour a lot of hatred towards bisexuals. They often say that the most virulent homophobes are really homosexual, so I can’t help but wonder if your extreme biphobia is indicative of something else…
Geri
@R.A.: Re: ‘In 1862 Karl Urich coined the word “Urning” for a male who desires men (which became “Uranian” in English.) Ulrich wrote that such men had a “female psyche in a male body.”
Here’s Wilde in 1868 in a letter to his lifelong gay friend and intimate Robert Ross:
“To have altered my life would have been to have admitted that Uranian love is ignoble. I hold it to be noble – more noble than other forms.” ‘
I wouldn’t employ you as a researcher.
Wilde actually wrote that letter to Robert Ross on or around February 17 1896. In February 1886 Wilde was 11 years old, and Ross hadn’t even been born!
Also, Karl Heinrich Ulrichs included bisexual people in his concept of Uranian Love, because he coined specific terms for us which relate to the word Urning. Ulrichs called men who are attracted to men and women “Uranodioning.” And women who are attracted to women and men he called “Uranodioningin.”
Therefore how can we assume that Oscar Wilde would not have considered himself to be a uranodioning?
The Uranian writer John Addington Symonds was apparently an important influence on Wilde when Wilde studied at Oxford. Like Wilde, Symonds was also bisexual in his behavior as he married and fathered four children.
Carl 1
@Geri: Geri, I fear you’re expecting too much from R.A. He is clearly an extremely bigoted individual – and we all know how resistant bigots are to reason and facts that inconveniently disagree with them.
Personally, I’m just satisfied that Queerty appears to have noticed the uproar the language used in the article has caused and the follow on pieces have been more appropriate. I’m just glad this guy is in custody where he can’t harm anyone else.
R.A.
“Wilde actually wrote that letter to Robert Ross on or around February 17 1896.”
Yes, you are absolutely correct. My dyslexia – the letter was written during his imprisonment.
“Also, Karl Heinrich Ulrichs included bisexual people in his concept of Uranian Love, because he coined specific terms for us which relate to the word Urning. Ulrichs called men who are attracted to men and women “Uranodioning.” And women who are attracted to women and men he called “Uranodioningin.”
Therefore how can we assume that Oscar Wilde would not have considered himself to be a uranodioning?”
I can’t argue from any real depth here (and I don’t think I’ll ever get to Ulrich’s book), but from what’s available online, “Uranian” is English for “Urning” – a man who loves like a woman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranian (For bisexuals, the “dion” suffix refers to their hetero aspect)
Besides that, there’s the context: “To have altered my life would have been to have admitted that Uranian love is ignoble. I hold it to be noble – more noble than other forms.”
If he’s not comparing same-sex love to straight, what else could he mean? Also notice how the sentences compare to when at his trial (1895), he is asked about “the love that dare not speak it’s name?” (The whole thing is here: http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/famoustrials/wilde.php)
“It is beautiful, it is fine, it is the noblest form of affection. “
That you make references to marriage and children leads me to believe we have very different concepts of sexual orientation. Yours is a bisexual view, I understand. But gay men do marry, have children, and when they’ve left it all for a gay life, they finally feel complete.
I think we may be arguing about point number 19: http://www.examiner.com/article/bisexuality-101-can-you-scientifically-test-for-bisexuality
R.A.
Oops – above was to Geri, #94
Geri
@Geri: Correction. It has been established that Wilde wrote the (undated) letter in question to Robert Ross on or around February 17 1898. Two years later than I stated above.
Aimee
@ Carl I’m not saying that people don’t have the right to be offended by the negative tone they feel is used to describe the murderers sexual orientation. I’m saying that the person who lost his life should be the focus. It just seems so sad that victims always get lost in the shuffle. Everyone either focuses on the killer or uses the death or articles surrounding the death to have philosophical debates. I think it is great that you stand up for your peers, you should always stand up for what you believe In. I just also believe that the victims of crimes deserve more respect than to have their deaths used as a springboard for political discussion.
Carl 1
Generally, I don’t like to use things like this for political debates, however when prejudice arises it needs challenging, no matter the subject. If we are silent in one case, we may as well be silent in them all. Even though the story is horrific, if we ignore prejudice used in writing about it, be day we’ll turn around and find that prejudice aimed at us from all sides.
I have repeatedly mentioned my feelings about the case in general and the relief that the suspect is in custody. You are right that that is and should be the main focus. Indeed, the discussion has only gone on so long because of the vitriol and bigotry of one individual, who I might add has not expressed one ounce of sympathy for the victim.
This article goes to show just how careless or narrow-minded language can distract from a subject. The language used, as I stated above, serves to connect bisexuality with a lack of trustworthiness and danger. And the terrible thing is that his sexuality was pertinent, in that it should have been used to warn potential victims – regardless of gender – to keep well away from him. At the end of the day though, he has been apprehended and it is in the hands of the judicial system now. All we can do is hope that justice is served, if he is guilty (he appears to be, but I will not declare anyone guilty without a trial).
Vatnos
Just want to point something out, in reference to a comment earlier about how the worst thing bisexuals ever have to face is “negative opinions from gays and lesbians”… no. No, if that were the worst thing, being bi would be a pretty sweet deal.
The problem is that evangelical christians hate us just as much. Every right-wing blowhard out there considers us gay. They make no distinction. Read the comments on the vast majority of websites out there. All of them talk about this serial killer as if he’s gay. His real sexuality (that his history would suggest) is never mentioned on many sites.
The hetero community at large practices bisexual erasure too. It is an important tool for them, because it helps them cope with their homophobia. They find the idea of ‘queers’ that can enter their dating pool and reproduce terrifying. Pushing all bisexuals into the ‘gay’ corner neutralizes that threat.
Vatnos
Also it’s kinda sad that we’re clinging to this psychopath, when he’s pretty much an embodiment of every negative bisexual stereotype with his aggressive, perverted, pathological behavior.
If we had more out rolemodels like Alan Cumming or Gore Vidal we wouldn’t care about having this prick so much.
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atdawson98
Ok I’m sorry but a lot of you are some of the biggest idiots I will probably ever meet. Really? Do you believe everything you see and read on the web? You know videos and pictures can be edited, and people do that all the time for money, publicity etc. So I hope you realize that sitting at home and doing this in your free time and it’s counterproductive to the country’s economy. I’m a sophomore in high school and I realize that faster than a lot of you. Really?
GeriHew
So videos and pictures can be edited. What precisely is the point you’re trying to make here?