Did Grey’s Creator Have a Problem With TR Knight Coming Out?


SOUNDBITES — “I think she [Grey’s Anatomy creator Shonda Rhimes] was concerned about having my statement come out so close to the [initial] event.” —Actor T.R. Knight on his decision to acknowledge he’s gay following Isaiah Washington’s faggot comment. As with all things between Knight and Rhimes, however, there’s disagreement:

Rhimes retorts: “I said, ‘If you want to come out, that’s awesome. We’ll totally support that.’ And then he went away, thought about it, and came back and said, ‘I’m going to make this statement.’ I remember saying to [fellow executive producer] Betsy Beers, ‘This is our proudest day here. T.R. got to come out, and I got to say to him that it wouldn’t affect his character’ — because he was concerned that he was going to come out and George would suddenly be gay. I was like, ‘We are not going to do that.’ The idea that a gay actor can’t play a straight man is insulting.”


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  • Synnerman

    I find T.R. Knight to be insufferably smarmy and I find his victim oriented publicity tactics to be a tad pathetic. He needs a new project…then again, he may not get one. No one likes to hire someone who tries to throw their boss under the victim train.

  • niles

    I’m mystified, why would he quit a hit show? He now will begin the slow descent to oblivion. Strange.

  • Krysan

    TR’s Whine Revue Part 2.

  • Bill

    I wonder how many of US would want to quit OUR jobs if our co-workers called us a faggot?

    Probably alot of us.

    Add I bet if the ‘faggot’ had called the black dude a ‘nigger,’ that the ‘faggot’ would have been fired IMMEDIATELY.

    I have never seen a single episode of Grey’s Anatomy, however, I do know that sppech like this is not allowed in the workplace.

    Knight is the victim of workplace homophobia. Stop balming the victim for not wanting to work in that kind of environment.

    As for Shondra: She is a black woman. ANd as such is most likely anti-gay. Sorry, that’s the truth, folks. Most people ARE anti-gay. Doesn’t mean he should stick around to keep a high paying job and deal with a bunch of bigots.

    I don’t even know who TR Knight IS, really, but I think he is doing the right thing.

    Sometimes your dignity IS more important than dollars, fellas.

  • Ben

    Bull Shit to Shonda Rhimes’ retort

  • Dabq

    @Bill: Yet another “victim” that gets no empathy from the public and a “martyr” to those who follow Hollywood, never heard of him or the show until the debacle, and, now he’s still a “victim?” Sorry, Hollywood knows only one thing, and, its money, not victims.

    Just another rich guy that the average person will say is a whiner, when there are real victims of discrimination for just being gay and they don’t get media attention or justice if they sue.

    And after seeing how freely the gay men here use the n-word and are as racist as the alleged homophobic Rimes, I for one would bet that Knight has as well, so, that is as lame as all out as an analogy. Find a real victim, Knight isn’t one in any sane real world persons, bad actors get fired or choose to leave all the time.

  • AlwaysGay

    @Bill: I completely agree.

  • Cam

    I find it totally beliveable that the producer of the show “Shonda” was telling him to stay in the closet and then retailiated against him by cutting his screentime and story lines. We just read an article a few days ago from a movie producer recomending that actors stay in the closet, that is what everybody in Hollywood seems to want. Typical egotistical Hollywood self important B.S. I can just IMAGINE her saying something “Well I”M not homophobic, but it’s all those stupid unwashed idiots out there, so we just can’t have any out gay people working for us because it might bother THEM.

    Must be nice for her to be able to hide her homophobia by blaming it on OTHER people.

  • Oliver

    T.R. Knight had a $14 million contract. Let’s say that again, $14 MILLION DOLLARS. Yeah, his employers really hated him. :-P

    Isaiah Washington left “Grey’s Anatomy” 2 years ago.

    This is ridiculous. Knight was on a soap opera. Characters on soaps are shoved into the background all the time for more popular characters.

  • Oliver


    You’re a racist.

    Shonda Rhimes’ created 3 lesbian characters after T.R. Knight came out. Two of those lesbians are in a prominent love story on the show. Both characters are presented in non-stereotypical ways.

    Of course, you’d rather fall back on your bigoted view instead of doing any kind of research on the show.


    T.R. Knight had a $14 MILLION DOLLAR contract! Cry me a river.

  • mikeandrewsdantescove

    TR Knight is going to do well on Broadway. I felt there was a lot of tension between Shonda and him.


  • Cam

    @Oliver: you saod “Shonda Rhimes’ created 3 lesbian characters after T.R. Knight came out. Two of those lesbians are in a prominent love story on the show. Both characters are presented in non-stereotypical ways. ”

    Of course, because Hollywood has been creating lesbian characters for ages. Remember Abby on LA Law? Lesbians are titilating to straight viewers. Thats why ER created them also. Why all the lesbians and not one gay guy. In a HOSPITAL?! I mean come on, every hospital you go into has at least a few male nurses that are gay.

  • Landon Bryce


    Bill is a racist, but Shonda Rhimes is also somewhat conflicted about gay people, as is indicated by her poor behavior throughout Isaiah-gate. You mention three lesbian characters to defend Rhimes, but one is bisexual, and one was removed from the show in a way that seemed to be largely about discomfort over sexual orientation.

    I think Rhimes actually has a lot to answer for in terms of giving many gay white people the impression that African Americans in general are willing to excuse anti-gay bigotry in each other. In fact, by being a very visible African American who excused and lied about anti-gay bigotry when it came from another black person, Shonda Rhimes has reinforced Bill’s racism.

  • asa1973

    In the end, didn’t Shonda fire Isaiah? And didn’t TR remain on the show for 2 more years. Even if it took Shonda a while to make the right decision, she ultimately made it. It sent a HUGE message to many communities that there was no room among the Grey’s cast for homophobic remarks. In the beginning, I was in TR’s corner. I was proud of Shonda for doing what needed to be done.

    But honestly, reading and watching some of the statements that TR and Katherine Heigle have made over the years, they seem a little like spoiled little brats. He walked away from a good contract because he didn’t get enough airtime? And he thinks his sexuality had something to do with it? YAWN. Spoiled. Brat. (albeit with a killer smile.)

  • asa1973

    @Bill: Wow! Shonda’s a black woman, so she is likely homophobic? Do you seriously know how many black woman are champions for and give to our cause? Even if Shonda is homophobic – which I don’t think she is – it can’t be denied that you are racist. So what makes you any better? Homophobes and racists reside in the same filthy, dank alley in my book.

  • asa1973

    @Landon Bryce: I agree. Conflicted is a better term to use for Shonda. Hopefully she will learn.

  • ggreen

    Isnt Shonda Rhimes BFF with the evil Jasmyne (I don’t have a problem with Prop 8 its only for white people)Cannick?

  • RainaWeather

    I had no idea I was most likely homophobic. This is a shock! And Isiah Washington was fired from the show long ago, so don’t use him as an excuse.

  • Giovanni

    “I think Rhimes actually has a lot to answer for in terms of giving many gay white people the impression that African Americans in general are willing to excuse anti-gay bigotry in each other. In fact, by being a very visible African American who excused and lied about anti-gay bigotry when it came from another black person, Shonda Rhimes has reinforced Bill’s racism.”

    I am pretty sure Bills racism has little or nothing to do with the back stage shenanigans of a mediocre prime time soap but for the record Shonda Rhimes is television producer who happens to be black – NOT THE VOICE OF BLACK AMERICA. Honestly you people are hilarious.

  • alan brickman

    for 14 million you should have sucked it up drama queen!!

  • Oliver


    Have you ever watched Grey’s? Obviously not! None of the lesbians on the show are HOT. They’re all pretty to average, zaftig women!

    Also, if you had bothered to watch the show, you’d know that Grey’s has repeatedly had gay men on the show as guest stars for years! The show featured a gay soldier and his lover. A recurring character is a gay male bartender who, with his partner, adopted a baby.

    Some of you people just blow out this crap without having any facts. How lazy are you not to even bother to google the show to understand it?

    And, let’s go back to the cheerful acceptance of racism. Sheesh! On the one hand you decry Rhimes for being a homophobe but on the other you happily role around in the filth of racism and toss idiotic racist accusations at her.

    Self-awareness? Nope. Hypocrisy? YEP!!

    T.R. Knight had a $14 MILLION DOLLAR contract! He walks away from $14 MILLION DOLLARS and we’re supposed to feel sorry for him?? The next time you read about some poor gay kid who’s living on the street or some family whose home is going to be foreclosed, please justify to yourself why T.R. Knight’s suffering while making $14,000,000.00 is a terrible shame.

    Both T.R. Knight and Heigel are whiners.

  • Oliver


    Why yes! Rhimes is black and Cannyck is black. They must know each other and be BFFs!

    BTW, how was your lunch date with Simon Doonan, Boy George, Larry Kramer, RuPaul, and Calvin Klein?

    You’re gay, right? You do know all the other gay people on earth, right?

  • GBM

    He will never see an offer like this again. That’s for sure!

  • jason

    There’s something about Shonda Rhimes I don’t like.

  • mick

    Another person playing the gay card!

  • Oliver


    Yeah, she’s smarter, more talented, and richer than you.

    Have you even watched the bloody show! Every year, the show features gay people in prominent roles. How horrible of Rhimes!

    Poor T.R. Knight. All those millions in the bank.

    Years ago, Nichelle Nichols played Uhura on Star Trek. She didn’t get much airtime or make millions, but she her presence inspired many and she used her position to help others.

    Knight was an actor on an ensemble soap opera. One season a character is hot. The next he isn’t. This is the same kind of thing that happens on Nip/Tuck, Rescue Me, or even CSI.



  • Jay

    Greys just got a little better. Maybe I’ll start watching again. Is that b!tch Katherine still on? I hate her with a passion.

  • spindoc

    @Oliver: You said “@Cam:

    Have you ever watched Grey’s? Obviously not! None of the lesbians on the show are HOT. They’re all pretty to average, zaftig women! ”

    Lesbians are not threatening to straights on the whole. That was my point, why no gay males…in a HOSPITAL? Gay male nurses are very common in that setting, yet the shoe has three lesbians, one of whom is bi and one with a story line that stigmatizes her sexuality.

  • M Shane

    No. 1 · Synnerman ; The idea that whistleblowing is somehow immoral , bad, or even impolite is just pure shit-it’s corporateist propaganda, team player garbage.
    No. 10 · Oliver ; Shonra could easily beieve that lesbianism is ok but not gayness for men. I’ve seen this B.S in action many times.many women want to belive that their pussies are the most desired object in the universe; thier homophobiua is rooted in that.. Recall Samuel Becket refering to a womans cunt as her “trump card” many women are brought up believing that that ois thier final power over men.
    What should have happened is that Knight should have been able to sue the crap out of the studio.

  • Will

    @M Shane:


    Hello! What part of the show has a gay male character with a partner and adopted child did you not understand? What part of the show featured a gay soldier and his partner did you not understand?

    As for lesbians “not being threatening to straights,” who told you that? Generalize much? You may want to talk to some lesbians ask about their experiences with work place discrimination. You might also want to look into the number rapes and other kinds of sexual violence inflicted on them by supposedly unthreatened straights.

    Gay male nurses? Yeah, Grey’s Anatomy should really traffic in stereotypes. ;-)

    Knight had no cause to sue ABC/Grey’s since immediately after Isaiah Washington made his comments he was counseled and fired. As such, ABC/Grey’s never permitted or encouraged discriminatory acts.

    You have no proof that Shonda Rhimes is homophobic. Moreover, you willfully dismiss the fact that Rhimes cast a gay man in a heterosexual role and that Rhimes also featured gay men and lesbians in high profile stories.

  • Landon Bryce


    We can disagree over how to interpret the facts of Isaiah-gate, but please don’t misrepresent the facts. There was no immediate response from ABC or from Rhimes to Isaiah Washington saying on set to Patrick Dempsey, “I’m not your little faggot like T.R.” Rhimes worked very hard to avoid firing Washington, trying to label efforts to replace him racist. TR Knight could indeed have sued ABC had the network not fired Washington, which it did only after forcing to work through the end of the season with a man who called him a faggot and then lied about it on television. Today, Washington blames the entire fallout of his own bigotry on Knight, spreading wholes series of lies that Rhimes has never bothered to deny.

    Rhimes’ support of Washington and her failure to stand up for Knight on any level may not make her a homophobe, but they make her a shitty human being. She took the side on the famous bigot over the less famous guy forced out of the closet. She deserves to be seen as an enemy of gay people simply for that. She earned our hate, and it’s not based on her race: it’s based on having a chance to stand up to bigotry and instead trying to cover it up.

  • jimsteele2008

    T.R. Knight is NOT a victim for leaving his well-paid job–nor is he a HERO for being outed after the Isaiah Washington fight with what-his-name went public. He was just another closeted Hollywood man with a teen-aged boyfriend. He got a free pass for being as much a homophobe as anyone for not coming out–he was forced out. He also got a free pass for dating someone young enough to be his son.

    I doubt very seriously that Isaiah Washington is a homophobe. If that was the case, he would have never played a gay man in Spike Lee’s “Get On the Bus.” The person who should have been fired from Grey’s Anatomy was the person who went public with information about the spat between Washington and what’s-his-name (who by the way got a free pass for marrying his much older drama coach and then dumping her when his career took off).

    Everybody has dirty laundry. T.R. Knight is no better and Isaiah Washington is no worse than the next guy.

  • Landon Bryce

    TR Knight is certainly not a victim is choosing to leave Grey’s Anatomy. Nor is he a selfish bitch making a stupid choice. He is an extremely gifted actor who wants to return to better material. His professional reputation has been hurt by the atrocious writing for his character since he came out. He has put in two seasons of being a whore, staying in a job with no artistic or personal satisfaction in order to make money and fulfill contractual obligation.

    Jim Steele has no problem at all with Isaiah Washington calling TR Knight a faggot. Jim Steele may not be a homophopbe, but, like Shonda Rhimes, he is a worthless piece of shit.

  • Michael

    I love Shonda Rhimes!. Another successful black person!. Oprah!, Tyra! Most of the successful TV judges! Dominating sports hands down! music! even the most powerful man in the world AKA your enemy Obama, even friggin’ RNC chair?. Hate em’ or love em’ black folk are the new black! I guess the feeling is mutual between blacks and gays.

  • Disgusted American

    I see TR Knights point – BUT, 48min airtime over 9 episodes and 14million dollars over 3yrs? Hey TR – trade ya jobs…I wrk 40hrs week…50wks a yr for 32K yr….you need a dose of STFU!

  • Landon Bryce

    @Disgusted American:

    I assume you also don’t have the several million dollars TR has saved while working in his current job. If you did, would you stay in a job that made you miserable? He’s already starring in major Broadway comedy, so he’s got a very high paying gig. He’s not David Caruso, walking away to nothing from the height of fame. He’s lived in a hostile situation for years and watched his professional reputation suffer both because of the poor writing for his character and the fact that as long he stays as Grey’s, he’s going to be smeared every time Katherine Heigle goes off the deep end. Knight has been a self-serving jerk at times, and I have never seen him as a hero. He was, however, undeniably a victim when Isaiah Knight outed him by calling him a faggot. Shonda Rhimes is undeniably one of the villains of that story. Watch the video of her laughing when Isaiah Washington lies to the press about having never called Knight a faggot if you do not believe that. Her behavior until she was forced by the network to issue a statement condemning Washington was indefensible.

    And this is a real tension between white gay men and African American people. Too many of us looked at Isaiah-gate and thought that the horrendous behavior shown by both Washington and Rhimes was typical of blacks in general. That is racism, pure and simple.

    But too many black people, gay and straight, do something nearly as bad: they excuse behavior which is undeniably bigoted and odious, like saying, “I’m not your little faggot like TR,” (when TR is a closeted gay actor). It is anti-gay bigotry, pure and simple, to claim that Washington’s behavior was not completely unacceptable or that Rhimes acted decently in that situation. It is, at best, reverse racism

    The hatred still directed at Knight for being the target of Washington’s bigotry is amazing and should embarrass commenters here. Knight was only thirty-one when he was outed, for example; I guess maybe he could have fathered the twenty-year-old he was dating at the age of ten, but I highly doubt it.

  • AlwaysGay

    @Landon Bryce: Thank you. Well said.

  • TANK

    I can’t stand this guy. Apparently the only interesting thing about him is that he’s gay. Sorry, not enough. SO bland. And BFD.

  • Landon Bryce

    This is funny.

    Isaiah Washington on why he called TR Knight a faggot:

    Washington defended his actions during an appearance on CNN’s “Larry King Live” on Monday night, blaming co-star Patrick Dempsey’s repeated tardiness to the set for the blowup that eventually ended with Washington using a homophobic slur. “(Dempsey) became unhinged, face-to-face, spittle to spittle, in my face. I’m asking him, ‘Why are you screaming at me?’ He became irate. By that time I pushed him out of my face and I began to say, ‘There’s no way you’re going treat me like a ‘b word,’ a ‘p word,’ or a ‘f word’ in front of our crew,” Washington told Larry King. “I wish I had said, ‘You’re not going to treat me like a ‘n-word’ because that’s how I felt.”

    Perez Hilton on why he called Will I. Am a faggot:

    But Perez tells me that, in the heat of the moment that night, he almost chose to use a different word. “I thought about calling him the n word,” he says over the phone a week after the incident, “but I thought the f word was even worse.”

    A new way to be disgusted by Perez: he’s a plagiarist!

  • mk

    @Landon Bryce: He wasn’t outed by that remark. First of all, TR was the one who decided to go public about the remark. Secondly, TR was the one who decided to declare he was gay when otherwise anyone who actually heard Washington had made that comment when he was in the middle of an angry confrontation with Dempsey over Dempsey’s behavior would simply assume Washington meant “I’m not going to be your little pussy toady like TR”. The general public would not have interpreted it to mean “I am not going to be your little homosexual like TR” since that doesn’t make sense and there is a well known second use of the word faggot.

  • Landon Bryce

    I think you actually meant to address this to Jim Steele, who insisted that Knight cannot be seen as a hero because he was outed by Washington.

    The truth, of course, is somewhere in between. Knight could have tried to stay in the closet after tabloid stories had written that Washington called him a faggot, but it would have been required that he be willing to lie about being gay in a way he had not needed to previously. Washington put a spotlight on his sexual orientation, which previously no one had cared about at.

    If, mk, you are suggesting that the complexity of the situation makes Washington’s outburst more acceptable, you are wrong. If you are saying that it somehow excuses Shonda Rhimes for lying about it and excusing it, then trying to label gay anger at Washington as racism, you are more wrong.

  • Synnerman

    @M Shane

    Knight isn’s a whistleblower, he’s a publicity seeking chickenhawk and trying to drape him in civil rights regalia is you attaching a significance to something that was never there.

    Knight is in for himself. There is no great civil rights moment. If anything it seems to create an atmosphere where the racists come out play.

  • maxwell

    An unattractive gay guy? He is so done in hollywood. Bad mouthing his boss like a little drama queen? Heigi can pull that off, you can’t!1 So you were called the F word, I have been called the f word a gazzilion times and i get over it and oh, i’m 19 years old. just the age you love to mess with.

  • Landon Bryce


    I agree– he’s not a civil rights hero. He’s just a guy who was treated badly. But, really, why is it that you hate TR Knight so much? He dates younger men?

    I tend to agree with Maxwell, and I think Knight does, too. He probably won’t work again in Hollywood at the level of visibility he currently has. He’s not as good on TV as he is on stage– I think you might be surprised how sexy he can be in that medium. He is not well cast in PARADE, so people who are looking for him to fail will be rewarded with some mixed reviews in the fall. His Broadway vehicle, however, is ideal for him, and if he does well, it should make him a very viable leading man for the stage.

  • Synnerman

    @Landon Bryce,

    I do not hate Knight, I do not think he is treated as badly as he says and he uses the media to deliver his snotty shots.

    As for dating younger, I’d find any 35 year old dating a 19 year old somewhat creepy, male or female.

  • mk

    @Landon Bryce: I am not saying using the word faggot is acceptable. The word has more than one meaning to people, though. In context it would only make sense to people that Washington was using it in the non-literal way to mean someone is a punk or weak. It is not OK for people to use the word faggot either way, but when the blow out was reported in the tabloids it would be abnormal for readers (especially straight readers) to interpret that remark in context as meaning TR is literally gay. There was no spotlight on his sexuality until he publicly singled out the comment and announced he considered it bigotry against him because he’s gay.

    George wasn’t a really major character, TR has never been one of the sex icons of the show and TR isn’t some kind of freak so the odds of his sexuality becoming some talked about issue in the mainstream media wasn’t big before or after the Washington thing.

  • Landon Bryce

    What has Knight said that you take issue with? What claim of his do you disagree with? Everything he has said is pretty well-supported. What do you know that I don’t?

  • Synnerman

    @Landon Bryce

    The gist of this article is quintessentially “he said she said.”

    Nothing about this is supported any way outside of the opposing statements between Rhimes and Knight. The funny thing is, I can admit that it may be less Knight himself, than the reactions where I’m reading that he absolutely has to be telling the truth, and she has to be homophobic.

    The truth is probably somewhere in the middle and unless you have access to tapes of the conversation you do not know everything either and “support” is marginal at best.

  • Landon Bryce


    You’ve got your facts mixed up. TR Knight came out in October when rumors about his sexual orientation starting to flare up after Washington referred to him as a faggot. He said nothing at that time about Washington’s comments. It was only after Washington lied and said that he had never called Knight a faggot (using that word, while Rhimes stood by and giggled) at the Golden Globe awards months later that Knight went on Ellen and talked publicly about what Washington said. In each case, he was standing in the sidelines and Isaiah Washington threw a big, nasty, bigoted spotlight at him.

    Please notice that people cannot defend Washington and Rhimes or criticize Knight in any meaningful way without distorting the facts.

  • Landon Bryce

    The videotape of the Golden Globes is plenty of proof that both Washington and Rhimes acted horribly in this situation:

    Washington later recanted his apology for his behavior that night; shockingly, Rhimes has never apologized.

    You lose.

  • Landon Bryce


    “The funny thing is, I can admit that it may be less Knight himself, than the reactions where I’m reading that he absolutely has to be telling the truth, and she has to be homophobic.”

    You also might want to explain how it is that you are most offended by the reactions of others when you were the first person to swoop in and attack TR Knight in the comments here.

  • Cam

    @Will: you said “Hello! What part of the show has a gay male character with a partner and adopted child did you not understand? What part of the show featured a gay soldier and his partner did you not understand?
    Single episodes or 2 episode story arcs are meaningless.

  • Synnerman

    @Landon Bryce,

    I did not defend Washington and I really don’t care about your youtube link. The fact of the matter is, Knight said something, Rhimes said something, they don’t match. It’s “he said she said.”

    And you still don’t know what was said.

    And yes I was first…here. There are other sites that posted this gossip bit with all sorts of lovely comments.

  • Landon Bryce


    Rhimes is claiming now that she was supportive of Knight in 2006. There is substantial evidence that that is a lie. There is absolutely no evidence that she offered any support to Knight at any point throughout the conflict. There is substantial public evidence of her supporting Washington and lying about what happened on set. It is dishonest of you to claim that her credibility is equal to Knight’s, whose factual descriptions of events have only been countered by Isaiah at his most deranged.

  • Synnerman

    @Landon Bryce,

    I guess you know Knight, otherwise your “evidence” is just news clips and the news has never spun anything…ever.

    There is nothing “substantial” about what is still “he said she said.” This is happening 2 years after Washington left the show. This is not about Washington. This is about a Knight quitting a show and airing dirty laundry and the showrunner replying.

    You obviously choose to believe Knight wholesale. I said earlier, the truth is probably in the middle and unless you have tapes, you have no evidence, even your public evidence is just news bites.

  • Landon Bryce


    I don’t know Knight.

    The quote I don’t believe is about how Rhimes behaved in 2006. She is obviously lying when she claims she supported him at that time. I have supplied evidence of how she behaved at that time. There is no evidence to indicate that she supported Knight and that she is not lying when she claims otherwise, so you are forced to claim that the opposing evidence does not count.

    Again, you lose.

  • Synnerman

    @Landon Bryce

    There is no winner or loser despite your desperate need to “win” at something with no proof despite your attempt to hitch something that happened behind closed doors to two year old news bites and speculation.

    I don’t win or lose because there is no contest. None of this makes anything better in the long run. It’s chatter over gossip.

  • Alex Sarmiento

    The only way for TR Knight’s character to go out with dignity and self-respect on Grey’s Anatomy would have been for him to bitch-slap everyone at Seattle Grace Hospital. Lord knows he’s been on the receiving end too many times. I used to be a fan of Grey’s Anatomy, but no more. TR and his character deserved far better than what they got from “SHANDA” Rhimes and Company. George O’Malley, for all his faults, was the lone voice of reason and sanity among the characters. I would have liked TR to beat the shit out of Isaiah Washington after he called him a “faggot”.

  • Landon Bryce

    @Synnerman: Well, we can at least agree that this is just chatter over gossip.

Comments are closed.