survey time

Take the Queerty Survey: Should we Challenge Prop 8 at the Ballot Box in 2012?

Equality California wants to know what to do about Prop 8. Fight it at the ballot box? Ignore it and hope it goes away? Make fun of its shoes?

They’re holding town halls all over California to gauge public sentiment. But if you can’t make it, don’t worry: they’ve posted an online survey that you can take.

So by all means, go and take the survey! And then take ours. We’re curious to hear your thoughts, and particularly curious to see whether your responses line up with the responses that EQCA gets. So, once you’ve answered their survey, answer the one we’ve posted below. We’ll let you know the results in a week or two.

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  • Bill

    We need to stop this nonsense.

    This is a Federal question now. LET THE FUCKING COURTS DO THEIR JOB.

    Putting this back on the ballot does NOTHING to advance the argument that the electorate is not now and has never been authorized to decide the level of citizenship and civil rights of fellow citizens.

    Putting this back on a ballot says otherwise AND IT MUST STOP.

    So sick of this shit.

    Let’s keep our pants on. WE’VE WON ALREADY WON THIS.

    The only thing that will fuck it up is us being impatient.

    Let the courts handle this. It is, after all, the way civil rights matters are handled.

  • Alex

    No! Didn’t we complain that “civil rights should never be voted on” and “the majority should never vote on the minority” wouldn’t it just be hypocrisy? Whether or not we might have a better chance in ’12 than we did in ’08.

  • Hyhybt

    @Alex: Ideally, they shouldn’t… but if somehow the courts fail us on this, the ONLY way to undo Prop 8 will be a return to the ballot. Under those circumstances, should it come to that, would you still oppose holding a vote?

  • bystander

    Clinging to a ridiculous mantra of “no civil rights issues on the ballot” is suicidal. If you can’t get a majority to support a right, than it doesn’t have much chance longterm.

    Anti-gay forces have no problem putting these issues on the ballot, we have to fight them on all sides, conceding the ballot box to them is silly especially giving there is no guarantee whatsoever that the supremes will strike down prop 8.

    Fight them in court, fight them at the ballot.

  • James in Hollywood

    Voting on civil rights is odious, but I think we should use every legal method possible to blast Proposition 8 to smithereens. If we have a chance to achieve equality faster by putting on the ballot, then put it on the ballot. Devise a smart, muscular campaign to both highlight our humanity and, with great authority, call our opponents out on every lie they utter. Show them weakness is not a part of our make-up. There’s no question we can do this.

  • Mike_AFX

    Fuck no we shouldn’t. If Prop 8 is back on the ballot in 2012 and it passes, this is great for California, but guess what happens to the Perry v. Schwarzenneger case? The Supreme court will be less likely to grant a writ of certiorari due to the mootness of the case. Do we want marriage equality in just California, or ALL 50 states? For fucks sake be patient.

  • Mark Snyder

    Every day organizations that serve lgbtq youth, seniors, transgender, homeless, etc. are closing due to lack of funds – and yet the rich folk in our community want to throw all their money and attention to marriage. It’s immoral. It’s an outrage.

  • Luke

    It’s a little stupid to argue in court that every day couples can’t get married as an unacceptable abrogation of their civil rights and then turn around in the community an argue against taking the strategy that would give them those rights in Nov 2012. Remember those couples that don’t have long left to wait? Why should they wait for the Supreme Court to finish up in 2014?

  • Martin81

    I think it cuts both ways. If there is a vote and this time Californians grant gays and lesbains the right to marry, it will finally shut up the NOM folks who constantly point to the fact that every time gay marriage has been put up for popular vote, it has failed. And it would be coming from one of the most populous states in the nation, and it would prevent the anti-gays from arguing “judicial activism.” However, as a previous commentor stated, it would render the legal question moot, and only California would have a recognizable right to gay marriage, instead of the states that make up the 9th Circuit (or, if the SC decides in our favor, the entire nation). Of course, there is no certainty that the 9th Circuit will even decide the case, if they determine that the intervenors have no standing, then the case would only apply to California in any event. The thing is, you can’t be sure that (1) voters would vote for marriage equality, or (2) that the courts (especially the SC) would overturn the ban. I think that to pursue every possible strategy available is the smart thing to do.

  • Alex-Michael Skott

    keep putting it on the ballot eventually the Mormon’s will run out of money and won’t be able to flip an election in someone else’s state when it is clearly not their state and clearly not their right and clearly not their place.

  • Hyhybt

    What guarantee is there that this will even GO to the Supreme Court, much less that they will rule in our favor? It hardly seems likely from here. Remember the standing issue.

  • Mike1987

    I am fairly certain that SCOTUS in a 5-4 would not support us and thus giving impetus to rescind all LGBT laws in all states. The Right has the lead and it will take decades to undo all the constitutional bans

  • Hyhybt

    @Martin81: It won’t shut them up. They’ll come up with some excuse why this one doesn’t count, or they’ll shift ground and shout all the louder about something else. Short of, perhaps, a scandal leading to criminal prosecution, they won’t shut up until about two years after marriage is legal throughout the US, state and federal.

    But at least a loss in California would rob them of the particular excuse you *know* they’ll use upon losing Minnesota: blame it on their vote-counting system where you have to get a majority of all ballots cast, rather than just of those who voted on that issue.

    @Alex-Michael Skott: If it were only *their* money, sure. But it’s expensive on *both* sides! Can you fund a war of financial attrition? Because I sure can’t.

  • Hyhybt

    @Mike1987: At the rate public opinion *used* to be progressing, the last state would turn about five years from now, if I remember rightly. Allow time for 1) that to translate to legislators, 2) in some cases, to get to a needed supermajority, and 3) for the action to take place, that would mean around ten years from now, possibly as much as fifteen, to undo the bans in all states. EXCEPT… the rate of change seems to be speeding up, now that it’s on the downhill side. So repeals should, if anything, happen sooner.

    And that leaves out not only the courts, but possible acts of Congress as well.

  • Cam

    A good thing about these measures, although I hate the thought of people voting on civil rights… that by running these measures we force groups like NOM to waste HUGE sums of money to try to buy ad time in a HUGE market like Ca.

  • MB1987

    How many more important community organizations need to shut their doors or reach the financial brink so EQCA and Gay Inc. can fill their coffers and congratulate themselves on another job poorly done?

    “We can’t wait any longer!” Oh yeah? Well, we can’t cut off our nose to spite our face any longer.

  • Frederick

    As someone who donated quite a bit of money and time to the 2008 No on 8 campaign, I now strongly feel that allowing people’s basic civil rights to be decided by majority vote sets a very dangerous precedent. Eventually, I truly feel Prop. 8 WILL be overturned by the courts; we just have to be patient while this issue work its way through the court system. I know it’s an old cliche, but “Rome wasn’t built in a day.”

  • Hyhybt

    @Frederick: Then I’ll ask again: IF the courts fail… IF this goes to the Supreme Court and they rule in favor of Prop 8, would you *still* be opposed to a ballot initiative to remove it? What if the appeals court upholds the proposition and the SC declines the case?

  • Jude

    My equal rights are not up for a vote. Even if 60% say they approve, there’s no guarantee those 60%ers will go out and vote. I’m tired of all the money that is being spent on this from both sides. Everything has been proven and could be overturned if the courts and Fed gvt had the guts to do it.

  • Travis

    Taking a repeal of prop 8 to a ballot vote in 2012 is a really bad idea. We thought that having a strong democratic presidential candidate would help us win in 2008; however, while people choose to ignore this fact, an unprecidented number of black democrats votes in that election and they voted 7-3 against gay marriage. The reality is that Obama is likely going to pull another large black turnout who will again vote against us. Compound this to the fact that conservatives really really really hate the guy, and you have a receipt for disaster. Finally, the democrat run legislature is incredibly unpopular given how thier mismanagement of the budget has virtually destroyed this state financially. This will also likely end in a strong conservative showing at the polls. I think we fight for 2014 or 2016. I would love to marry my partner of 7 years, but we cannot afford another loss at the ballot box.

  • Joetx

    @ Travis – Keep your racist myths to yourself, you racist prick.

    Obviously, you have access to both a computer & the internet. I suggest you use both to search for analyses of the Prop 8 vote. You’ll find that the facts don’t support your racist beliefs. Such facts include:

    1. Blacks make up only about 6% of the population of Cali;
    2. The county with the highest % of blacks, Alameda with 13.7%, had the SECOND MOST margin of victory of “No” votes; &
    3. Of the counties that are > 75% white, 16 counties voted “Yes” and 2 counties voted “No”.

  • TheRealAdam

    @Joetx: What does this have to do with the fact that, overall, blacks voted 7-3 in favor of Prop 8?

    And how is it “racist” to point that out? Do you even know what that word means? Nevermind, you already answered that…

  • delurker

    @TheRealAdam: dumbasses. you and travis.

    it’s racist b/c he’s blaming 6% of the blacks when the central valley hicks + oc crackers are real reasons why prop 8 passed.

  • Jeffree

    The best predictor of how a person will vote on social issues isn’t their race or ethnicity, it’s their degree of religious affiliation.

    Put another way, the more frequently a person attends religious services, the more likely they are to vote in conservative terms on issues like marriage equality, firearm restrictions, abortion etc.

    [and studies also show that greater affilation translates to higher likelihood people will actually vote, period].

  • TheRealAdam

    @matt baume: Regardless, blacks still voted overwhelmingly in favor of Prop 8:

    “But an analysis of precinct-level voting data on Prop. 8 from Alameda, Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Diego and San Francisco counties, which are home to nearly two-thirds of California’s black voters, suggested that African American support for Prop. 8 was more likely about 58 percent.”

    That’s close to 60%. And the article clearly stated that the precincts analyzed to obtain that new percentage were home to only 2/3 of the black population, so it doesn’t include all black voters.

    I’m still inclined to believe 70% or close to 70% of blacks voted in favor of Prop 8. When you’re dealing with percentages, nothing is “fact” because you can use different models and variables to get the statistic.

    @delurker: Point out exactly where he said that the 6% of blacks are responsible for Prop 8. Maybe he was wrong to only discuss them, but he didn’t state that they were the reason Prop 8 passed, and there is nothing “racist” about his comment. Get a grip.

  • TheRealAdam

    @Jeffree: Yes, and Bill Maher said it best: “Black people love them some Jesus.”

  • Jeffree

    @TheRealAdam: LOL, yes, he said that!

    Unfortunately, he would have no idea how to parse a data set of statistics on why religiosity typically affects voting more than ethnicity. He missed out some good funny stuff by forgetting how the ethnic Chinese + Korean churches get their members to the polls. [answer: by the busload]

    [He also is unaware that the Italian priest who just got nabbed for pedophila has a last name “Seppia” that means…..wait for it….”cuttlefish,” in italiano! I thought of you when I saw that]
    —That’s why he needs me on his team of researchers—

  • Plaintom

    No! You do not put civil rights to a vote. We either have equal rights or the entire American Constitutional System is a fraud.

  • manfred

    Too soon, not enough time to prepare and raise money. When and if it is necessary, I do hope it will be a balls out take no prisoners war, after all, we will have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

  • hyhybt

    @manfred: NOT ENOUGH TIME!? It’s a year and a half before the election!

  • Jeffree

    If we’re going to put the issue back into the hands of CA voters, we need to out-spend, out-think, & out-number NOM and their minions.

    I, for one, don’t think that’s possible. Throwing all “our” resources into one state could take away from efforts in other states & other issues (e.g.,ENDA?).

  • dfrw

    Minnesota has it on ballot already for 2012. Let’s see what happen there. Also, I know you don’t like it, but Travis made some good points.

  • dfrw

    Although Jeffree’s point was the most salient….

    The best predictor of how a person will vote on social issues isn’t their race or ethnicity, it’s their degree of religious affiliation.

  • delurker

    @dfrw: the gay marriage ban will pass there just like every other state the issue was put to a vote. mn is 95% white, so homoracists can’t blame blacks like they always do.

  • tjr101

    @delurker: They couldn’t blame blacks for Maine either.

  • delurker

    @tjr101: they’ll just hold on to the lie about blacks voting 70% for prop 8 CA like a dog with a bone. keep fucking that chicken, i say.

    i think the “gays” who constantly bring that up are republican trolls trying to divide and conquer. anyway, the real issue here is that gay marriage bans will always pass, no matter the demographics of a state, and that’s just sad.

  • hyhybt

    @delurker: Why “always?” So, no matter how much of the population is on our side as time goes on (60, 70%) we’ll still lose at the ballot box? What kind of sense does that make? Even if it turns out 2012 isn’t quite past the voter tipping point, there must be one.

    @Jeffree: ENDA is strictly in the hands of Congress. Like it or not (and I’m sure none of us do) that means it’s a dead issue until the next Congress in 2013 at the earliest. Yes, that means we need to get rid of anti-gay congressmen and senators, but we need to do that regardless, and at every election from here until there are so few they don’t matter. Which is far too long to put everything else on hold.

  • Jeffree

    @hyhybt: Good points! Why do we lose in the voting booths? The tipping point will be when there the number of people who strongly favor marriage equality *surpasses* the number of those who strongly oppose it. It boils down to votes, and the lukewarm supporters don’t turn out to the polls like the haters do.

    Until ENDA is passed, state level protections will positively impact many more LGBT people than state-level marriage equality. It’s not PC for me to say that, but getting / keeping a job is a matter of survival.

    (sorry I wasn’t clear about ENDA in my prior post).

Comments are closed.