Identified only as M.B. in court papers, the man Dharum Ravi filmed kissing Tyler Clementi, will likely have to testify Thursday, according to the New Jersey Star-Ledger.
M.B., who is in his mid-20s and was perceived as “sketchy” by Ravi, is terrified that his identity will be made public, says his attorney, Richard Pompelio.
Pompelio described M.B.’s apprehensive mood as such: “How would you feel when you know you’re going to have open-heart surgery the next day?”
The judge has ordered that M.B. not be photographed or filmed, but it would be hard to prevent an intrepid paparazzo from tracking down his identity or even taking a photo as he leaves the courthouse. (To be honest, if we had the time to head over to New Brunswick, we might try for an interview with M.B., as doubtless many other reporters will.)
So, yes, perhaps the open-heart surgery reference is apt.
Photo via Francesco Rachello
JayKay
…And Queerty will, no doubt, publish every detail they can find.
Hyhybt
Part of me still wonders if, just perhaps, this guy really murdered him. Clementi’s reported statements and actions between the camera business and his death sounded like he was dealing with things just fine.
But of course the police will have considered that angle.
rick
I feel sympathize with M.B., and it has nothing to do with the fact that he’s gay but that he was thrown in the middle of the case like this. Unless he’s a very public anti-gay gay person like a certain Arizona sheriff, he deserves his privacy like anyone else.
I think it would be great if he felt like facing the world but if he doesn’t, it’s his decision. If I were in his shoes I’d want privacy too, just to keep the newsies away. I don’t know the guy’s feelings, but public cases like this can be really intrusive, and I’d like a little privacy in that case, myself.
Isaac C
Another article said that he was around 30.
Anyway, his identity should be revealed. He should be forced out of the closet. If he has no problem hooking up with teenage boys in their dorm room and looking for them on Adam4Adam, he shouldn’t have a problem with his identity being revealed. Or is he ashamed of himself?
brian
Why should his identity be revealed? He was having a consensual encounter with a legal adult. He isn’t ashamed of himself, he’s in the middle of a total shitstorm and he’s probably in PAIN.
Drake
When the criminal case is over, this guy needs to sue Dharum Ravi and chase him to the ends of the earth.
Drake
When the criminal case is over, this guy needs to sue Dharum Ravi and chase him to the ends of the earth.
Also, Hyhybt, what a stupid statement, based on what, that this guy killed him? And no one on the GW Bridge saw the murder.
Also, Isaac C – opf course we feel bad about Tyler Clementi, but he was a consenting adult. This guy was not a kiddie stalker. You are an asshole.
Drake
When the criminal case is over, this guy needs to sue Dharum Ravi and chase him to the ends of the earth.
Also, Hyhybt, what a stupid statement, based on what, that this guy killed him? And no one on the GW Bridge saw the murder.
Also, Isaac C – of course we feel bad about Tyler Clementi, but he was a consenting adult. This guy was not a kiddie stalker. You are an asshole.
MKe
@Hyhybt: Is that the part of you that’s trying to defend the defendant?
Hyhybt
@MKe: No, just the part that’s a little suspicious of things as presented. Just as I consider the possibility that the lesbians asked to leave over a kiss *might* have been doing more than they admit.
But as I said, surely the police have considered this, and, their having far more knowledge of the matter, rejected it.
B
No. 2 · Hyhybt wrote, “Part of me still wonders if, just perhaps, this guy really murdered him. Clementi’s reported statements and actions between the camera business and his death sounded like he was dealing with things just fine.”
While I’d agree with Drake in that “murder” is the wrong word (nobody saw anyone else on the bridge), there are other possibilities. For example:
1. They broke up, perhaps because M.B. couldn’t handle being spied on, perhaps figuring they were being filmed.
2. Ravi may have threatened Clementi, perhaps saying that he’d forward the videos, or something he found on via an Internet search, to Clementi’s parents, in order to coerce Clementi into dropping the room-change, which Ravi might have felt was embarrassing to him. Ravi wouldn’t actually have to have a copy of the video stream to do that – he could just bluff.
Of course, we don’t know – there’s no way of getting such information if it wasn’t in writing or in some computer file – but something does seem to be missing, which is why Hyhybt is suspicious that something else was going on.
Isaac C
@Drake: You didn’t even talk about the point of my post. It’s totally irrelevant that Clementi was a consenting “adult.”
Hah!
@Isaac C: That’s adorable. You think your posts have “points”?
Giovannidude
I was shortsighted, thinking that Tyler Clementi was Dharun Ravi’s only victim. Now I see that M.B. will be Ravi’s second victim.
Molly Wei may be Ravi’s third victim, because he used her to spy on Clementi and M.B. via his webcam in her room, and got her arrested and kicked out of college.
Of course, many on this thread will probably feel Ravi was just your average teenager pulling a harmless prank, and deserves to get off the hook because he did nothing wrong — because destroying three lives doesn’t really count when you’re just prankin’.
Mr. Robertson
@Giovannidude: Now we’ve upped the ante to *three* lives? Queerty better stop posting stuff about this trial, or before March is through we’ll be blaming him for hunger in Africa and strife in the Middle East.
Giovannidude
@Mr. Robertson:
We’ll also be blaming him for bringing out indifferent, callous people who make excuses for pathetic perverts like Ravi, who snoop on people electronically while kissing or having sex.
These folks love to defend the indefensible. Being a peeping Tom is just a harmless teenage prank to them. Making a mockery out of the justice system is their other passion.
Mr. Robertson
@Giovannidude: Well. I don’t think that’s a fair assessment of people like me. I don’t think I’m indifferent or callous. I just don’t think Ravi’s crimes merit the potential punishment he will face if he is found guilty. (And, of course, a big reason I feel that way is that I don’t think there is convincing evidence that his actions led to Clementi’s death.)
Giovannidude
@Mr. Robertson:
He’s not being charged with Clementi’s death. You’re a pisser.
Mr. Robertson
@Giovannidude: You’re not much of a reader, are you.
OK, I’ll dumb that parenthetical statement down for you:
1) A lot of people want Clementi convicted *because* they think he’s responsible for Clementi’s death.
2) I don’t think he *is* responsible for Clementi’s death, so I’m less inclined to wish for his conviction.
There. Hope you got that. If you didn’t, sorry. I don’t know how dumb things down more than that.
If you things *still* haven’t gotten through your thick, moronic skull, can I suggest Hooked On Phonics? Moron.
B
No. 14 · Giovannidude wrote, “Molly Wei may be Ravi’s third victim, because he used her to spy on Clementi and M.B. via his webcam in her room, and got her arrested and kicked out of college.”
I’d hope she wouldn’t have been arrested if the only thing she did was to let Ravi use her laptop without knowing what he was going to do. But, she apparently showed the video stream to some friends. At that point, she a made personal decision to invade the victims privacy, knowing full well what she was going to see.
B
No. 4 · Isaac C wrote, “Another article said that he was around 30. Anyway, his identity should be revealed. He should be forced out of the closet.”
A New Jersey regional newspaper gave his age as mid-twenties and just before the trial. It’s probably more reliable than some random blogger’s guess or some earlier account where less was known.
Why should his identity be revealed and why assume he is really closeted? For all we know, he could be out to everyone except a 90 year old, bible-thumping grandma whom the family decided to keep in the dark because she’d have a fit and maybe a heart attack to go with it. Or maybe he is just horrified at the thought of being the center of a media circus.
Besides, Ravi’s claim about wanting to make sure his property was safe is obviously BS: if so, wouldn’t the web cam have been pointed at his stuff instead of at his roommate’s bed?
Joey
Poor guy, M.B. I believe sex is a good thing and that it shouldn’t cause shame. I believe that the two men in that room did nothing wrong and have nothing to be ashamed of. I also know we live in a world that does not believe these things, that something like sharing a night with another person, which is in no way wrong, might turn this man’s life upside down is a tragedy all its own.
Isaac C
@B: The source was a Yahoo/ABC article:
http://news.yahoo.com/rutgers-trial-hear-secret-witness-tyler-clementis-gay-133140591–abc-news.html
“M.B. has been described as a man about 30 and a bit hefty. His identity is being protected because he is being treated as a victim of the alleged crime and he is not out as a gay man.”
His identity should be revealed because it simply isn’t fair to the trial that he remains closeted. And he needs to be held accountable for his sexual actions with Clementi.
Hyhybt
@Isaac C: And what, precisely, do you mean by “held accountable for his sexual actions?”
Isaac C
@Hyhybt: It means exactly what it says.
Heil Isaac! Heil! Heil! Heil!
@Hyhybt: I think it’s pretty clear what he means by that. Isaac C. does not approve of sexual relationships between men whose age gap is greater than the Isaac-approved limit (I’m not joking about that; he actually has specific limits), and therefore MB needs to be punished. (Again, not joking. That’s actually how Isaac feels.)
Caliban
Yeah, WTF is “held accountable for his sexual actions with Clementi” supposed to mean? Tyler Clementi was an 18 year old who put a profile on an adult sexual website and met up with M.B. on one occasion than invited him back again. Tyler was legal adult.
While I personally wouldn’t make a ‘date’ to hook-up with an 18 year-old student at one of the colleges local to me, IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY LEGAL FOR ME TO DO SO. And given that it would involve no coercion and another consenting adult it wouldn’t even be ethically wrong.
So what’s your beef? It sounds like you think this guy deserves to be chased from the court room by torch-wielding villagers. It’s odd that while you seem to have plenty of (perhaps justifiable) sympathy for Dharun Ravi you seem to have NONE for M.B., who did nothing legally or ethically wrong.
Either get your priorities straight or go hide in your shame-closet because you don’t know what you’re talking about.
B
No. 23 · Isaac C wrote, ‘@B: The source was a Yahoo/ABC article: http://news.yahoo.com/rutgers-trial-hear-secret-witness-tyler-clementis-gay-133140591–abc-news.html “M.B. has been described as a man about 30 and a bit hefty.”‘
The article QUEERTY linked to said, “Pompelio told The Star-Ledger Tuesday he expects Ravi’s defense team will try to contrast the physical appearance of M.B., who is in his mid-20s, with the younger undergraduates of Clementi’s dorm.”
So, you have some random person who “described” M.B. as being “about 30 and a bit hefty” (i.e., a guess) versus a statement by Pompelio (M.B.’s attorney) who undoubtedly talked to M.B. and knows M.B.’s age.
Precisely why do you think M.B. “needs to be held accountable for his sexual actions with Clementi” when M.B. is not on trial and is also a victim in the case? Are you saying the state should exacerbate an invasion of privacy by making it worse when M.B.’s actual name or personal life is of no relevance to the case? He was in the room. At most, he can testify as to what Clementi might have said and possibly whether an LED on the webcam turned on to indicate that the webcam was active. Almost anything else is irrelevant and immaterial, other than how old he looks (if that would plausibly seem out of place in a freshman dorm).
Hyhybt
@Isaac C: …which is no amswer at all, but a deliberate refusal to give one.
Isaac C
@Caliban: I have no idea where you got the idea that I have sympathy for Ravi. Maybe you have me confused with someone else?
As for M.B., all we know is that he is a shady figure who apparently preys on teenage boys. We will have to wait and see what develops but it will not surprise if he was at least somewhat responsible for Clementi killing himself.
Isaac C
@B: And how do we know they are not trying to conceal his identity even more by making him younger? I’m just saying that another source said something different.
“Are you saying the state should exacerbate an invasion of privacy by making it worse when M.B.’s actual name or personal life is of no relevance to the case?”
Yes.
“He was in the room. At most, he can testify as to what Clementi might have said and possibly whether an LED on the webcam turned on to indicate that the webcam was active. Almost anything else is irrelevant and immaterial.”
Maybe the relationship between him and Clementi deserves more attention.
@Hyhybt: Just because you didn’t like the answer doesn’t mean it isn’t one.
B
Re No. 27 – something else to add – there is a difference between someone who hooks up with an 18 year old who was looking for a partner on an adult dating site and someone who is trolling a college campus trying to talk 18 year olds into a sexual encounter.
Isaac C
@B: No, there isn’t.
Hyhybt
Repeating yourself or merely referring someone to reread is NEVER a valid answer to a request for explanation. Do you not know what the word means?
Meanwhile, you now claim he’s “a shady figure who apparently preys on teenage boys.” What evidence do you have that he is predatory? Or, for that matter, “shady” in any meaning other than simply unknown?
You fool!
@B: So you tried to determine what sorts of sexual encounters were appropriate, *before* consulting Isaac C.? You fool. It is only Isaac C. who determines what sexual pairings are allowed; It is only Isaac C., who determines which ones are forbidden.
He is the one who controls, in his mind, who should fuck whom, and for that, he has very, very, very specific rules. Like, really, very weirdly specific rules.
Seriously, though. It’s kinda creepy how specific the rules are.
Isaac C. is he who must be obeyed!
Isaac C
@Hyhybt: Again, I’m sorry you didn’t like my answer. Next time please let me know ahead of time what qualifies as a “valid answer” the next time you ask me for a response, mmmmkay? Thanks.
As for the rest of your post, the fact that he hooked up with the 18yo child Clementi in his dorm, and the descriptions of him as being sketchy, and his insistence on being closeted, should point you to the possibility that he maybe has a sketchy and criminal past that needs to be examined in light of Clementi’s suicide. You can keep your blinders on all you like and see M.B. as a victim but that’s probably not the truth.
Hyhybt
@You fool!: And yet, apparently, asking what those rules even ARE is not allowed; or, at least, answers will be refused in a fake-offended manner. Also, when an age gap is uncertain, the widest possible difference will be not only taken as fact, but also should be spoken of so as to give the impression it’s even larger by, for example, referring to “teenage boys.”
Allen D.
Sure, why not make it an international incident to work with the legal system (especially if you’re closeted), exposing yourself to ridicule, outing, and a bunch of queerty comment trolls talking about whether you’re hot or not.
Yep, we’re sure getting ahead, aren’t we?
B
No. 31 · Isaac C wrote, ‘“Are you saying the state should exacerbate an invasion of privacy by making it worse when M.B.’s actual name or personal life is of no relevance to the case?” Yes.”
I’ll refer you to http://caselaw.findlaw.com/nj-supreme-court/1363907.html as an example of the issues involved, particularly the statement by the New Jersey Supreme Court that “In these competing arguments are found the tension between defendant’s right to confrontation and the compulsory process of witnesses, and the victim’s right to be free from an unnecessary invasion of her privacy.” (This was a ruling on an appeal of a rape case). Note, however, the phrase, “the victim’s right to be free from an unnecessary invasion of her privacy.” (the word “her” is specific to this particular case but the principle is not dependent on gender).
Also to http://www.justice.gov/olp/pdf/ag_guidelines.pdf for guidelines on the protection of witnesses and victims, including privacy issues.
There are standards the courts are expected to follow, and some random person’s curiosity is not sufficient to nullify those standards. There’s a question of justice – justice is not served if an invasion of privacy can be used as a means of intimidating witnesses. We don’t want guilty people to go free and innocent people to be convicted.
Then you say, “Maybe the relationship between him and Clementi deserves more attention.”
Why do you think that would be relevant to whether or not Ravi invaded their privacy or any other charge against Ravi?
Isaac C
@B: You are using case law applied to a rape victim, to a potential sexual predator and murderer? That seems like a big leap.
I understand that the person in question is being treated as a victim – *that* is what is highly questionable and methinks inappropriate, which is why the case law shouldn’t be applied. The question isn’t what relation M.B. has to Ravi’s invasion of privacy; it is what sexual influence M.B. had on Clementi that perhaps pushed him to suicide, that needs to be investigated.
Hyhybt
@Isaac C: Pretending not to understand basic concepts like “explain” and “specific” is simply ridiculous.
Hyhybt
@Isaac C: *IF* MB is ever investigated and tried, those might become valid concerns. But that’s not what this trial is about. This one is about what Mr. Ravi did. If Mr. Clamenti is a victim of breach of privacy or whatever, then so is the guy he was with. And obviously it’s not inreasonable to compare victim/witness to victim/witness.
cwm
“18yo child” (rolls eyes)
and so the campaign to raise the age-of-consent begins…
B
No. 40 · Isaac C wrote, “@B: You are using case law applied to a rape victim, to a potential sexual predator and murderer? That seems like a big leap.”
Wrong – your “potential sexual predator, etc.” has not been charged with any crime and is not suspected of any crime, at least as far as we know based on the D.A.’s statements. What I cited was a case that mentioned an underlying principle: “the victim’s right to be free from an unnecessary invasion of … privacy.”
If you think M.B. is guilty of some crime and the D.A. agrees, he would be tried separately, so in this case he would still be a victim.
To give a different example, if someone burglarizes a bank-robber’s house and steals a computer from it, the bank-robber’s “business” is irrelevant and immaterial. These rules are there for a purpose – to avoid confusing the jury by burying them in details that have nothing to do with the case they are trying.
Joey
@Isaac C: Hmmm, just enjoying memories of being a teenager, and hooking up with older men. Always within consent laws of course, it was six year difference till 17 in my state at that time, and at 17 it was all good. Man, there was this one guy, oldest guy I ever hooked up with, a really hot 55 year old muscled bar owner when I was 19, we hooked up in the bar after it closed- it was very hot and and enjoyable and he was such a gentlemen.
All my life I’ve loved older men, from 1 year difference to 20 years. I think its because I was always so mature for my age ;D, and because they knew what they were doing and agreed with me that safe sex was the only sex we would have- and it helps that I think they’re hot! Its just funny to me, to sit here and remember all the hook ups and relationships I’ve had that ran the age gap back and forth, and hear how horrified you seem to be at the idea.
I’m sorry if anything ever happened to you or someone you loved, but my reality is different. My reality is that I have had joy and beauty in my life with and because of “older” men. I respect any boundaries you have in terms of age, if you don’t want to have sex with anyone a day older than you that’s fine and I’d defend your right to that choice. Your experience is a part of the world but it does not shape or define the world.
Isaac C
@Joey: What the hell are you going on about? I don’t care how many grandpas you’ve allowed yourself to be molested by. That has nothing to do with this situation and the issues raised.
@B: We will have to agree to disagree, respectfully.
B
Re No 46: Isaac C: your use of the term “molested” regarding Joey is not appropriate – he was above the age of consent and was not coerced if I’ve interpreted what he wrote the way he meant it.
One might consider that our society is willing to send 18 year olds into war zones where they could be killed or come back home missing various limbs. Someone old enough to be sent to war zone is old enough to decide whom he would like to have sex with.
Isaac C
@B: You and Joey have your interpretations of his experiences, and I have mine. It is something else we can agree to disagree on.
D P
@rick: — Really? That Arizona sheriff is an anti-gay homosexual? I knew he’s anti-gay, but a gay, to boot?
Matthew Rettenmund
I don’t think the trick did anything wrong, but I also don’t understand the need to keep him anonymous. It’s unfortunate that he has become embroiled in a sad and very public story and that a person he was intimate with was victimized and committed suicide. But it happened, and he should just realize he is now a part of this and do his duty with as low a profile as possible.
Derek Washington
Lol why are you guys responding to Isaac? Obviously a troll or touching himself when he receives angry responses. I bet he’s fifty something and has a serious hard on for beebs.
Isaac C
@Derek Washington: What a stupid comment. Typical boob.
B
No. 50 · Matthew Rettenmund wrote, “But it happened, and he should just realize he is now a part of this and do his duty with as low a profile as possible.”
That seems to be what he is trying to do. The media should, however, help him by not printing pictures of him and/or his name, and just report his testimony instead.
Ben
This case will pretty much make all people involved look bad. Not sure how I would even handle it.
Shannon1981
I understand the need for this person’s testimony, but there is no way he could have known what was going to happen to Tyler. He has committed no crime, and revealing his identity could ruin his life. His former lover is now a poster child for anti- gay bullying and a martyr. Once people find out who he is, he will never have another moment’s peace.Ever.
DM
@brian: in pain? You think this guy was in love with a one night stand? I doubt it. He is probably living undercover and didn’t want to be identified or outed.
Hyhybt
@DM: So then: f events surrounding your hooking up with a guy led to his killing himself, that wouldn’t bother you at all?
LEE
I’m so sick of people saying that others should be “forced” to come out of the closet! Isn’t that the same as “Bullying?”