“I just want to say this in case this is useful to you if you have people in your own life – older feminist icons even – who are perplexed and threatened by inclusive language.
Those figures, like Better Midler, fought hard for women’s rights and they’re upset when, in the context of reproductive rights, they read phrases like ‘people with uteruses.’
They feel reduced and negated and confused. I would say to them: Nobody is negating the fact that people assigned female at birth have a unique struggle against an oppressive patriarchy. Nobody is denying the power and magic of cis women.
I am trans/non-binary, not a woman. I am medically and culturally transitioning and so ‘woman’ is not an accurate word to use when describing me.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
The use of inclusive language when talking about abortion rights meant that I – with all my shared experience and shared threat of pregnancy as I also sleep with cis men – can participate and be acknowledged in the conversation and fight alongside women.
I hope that people like Bette continue to learn and evolve. I really want to be able to enjoy Hocus Pocus 2, which I’ve been waiting for for about twenty years, feeling safe in the knowledge that my idol is on the side of personhood and freedom and unity, and would include me in that fight.
The best part of life is continuing to learn and grow. And we have to try to rise above and have open arms and be full of love and respect.”— Actor/comedian Mae Martin via Instagram Story, responding to tweets from Bette Midler that many have interpreted as transphobic.
MystiRivers
I’m sure Bette will sleep secure at night, on a mattress filled with her f-u money.
tallskin4
Yes, i think like JK Rowlings, most gays and lesbians will show their support for them
I know sales of Macy Gray’s albums have increased since she was accused of transphobia!
ShiningSex
@tallskin4
Midler is not the same as JK Rowlings. JK shows her hate. Midler stated an opinion on abortion rights. BIG difference. PS this idiot Mae who doesn’t know if “they” are trans or non-binary needs to deal with that before passing judgment.
Eternal.Cowboy
You are not just interested but absolutely obsessed. Your life seems to revolve around your obsession with trans folks …. Is more than a little creepy.
tallskin4
Eternal.Cowboy – don’t you mean FOLX ?
SomethingOrOther
You seem interested.
Are you actually looking for an answer to your stupid questions?
Or, the more likely option, are you just throwing hate out there to get a rise out of people?
Go live your best life somewhere else?
LumpyPillows
I am always amazed at the arrogance of these nut Jobs. For all of you dying on the hill defending “people who menstruate”, I salute your foolishness as you get smacked by your mother. Just stop. Its insulting and smug.
cheks
Honestly, to me it just seems like a bunch of whining. I don’t see men going on and on and complaining about “people with prostates”. I swear, some women, if they’re not the victims of something they don’t know what to do with themselves.
The article on prostate cancer on the Mayo clinic never mentions the word “men,” let’s all cry about it.
Jami Stardust
This is easily curedby stating women and those who menstrate.
LumpyPillows
Nah, you are offended when we say women have vaginas, but can’t understand why people do not want to be identified by bodily functions like menstruation. I mean no offense, but I do find this to be very offensive and the tactics are bullying. If you don’t understand why people do not like this, you are dishonest and you really need some empathy training.
As far as this mysterious Mayo article, I’m sure they do not refer to men as humans who ejaculate.
BigJohnSF
well if the article is about prostate cancer, the men don’t necessarily ejaculate any more
mastik8
@cheks – Actually, “Prostate cancer is one of the most common types of cancer in men.” is a quote from the mayo clinic health system site.
Bosch
Jami suggests that instead of “those who menstruate”, they should update the term to “women AND those who menstrate”. Wherein the second part of the clause CLEARLY refers ONLY to trans-men and non-binaries. It doesn’t erase women, and it doesn’t exclude other genders.
And then you proceed to tell her how the subject of that clause, trans people, “do not want to be identified by bodily functions”? And unironically tell her she needs empathy training?
I sincerely hope you misread her comment and though she was referring to women as “those who menstruate”.
LumpyPillows
How about women and trans women? No more of this menstruate nonsense.
Bosch
There’s nothing with that suggestion either.
But it’s not up to us to tell transmen how they want to be addressed, just like it’s not up to us to tell women how they want to be addressed.
Your “I fully support trans people” comments lose credibility if you become vicious when confronted with an actual trans person.
Wolfie
Bette is fine.
Mundo
Si, por seguro.
humble charlie
as to bette’s hocus pocus 2, don’t confuse the dancer with the dance. it will be just as bad as the first hocus pocus.
LumpyPillows
I’m not alone! I didn’t care for the first movie either, even though I love the cast. We are in the minority though.
Jami Stardust
I just want you to know I h@t@ ll you transphobes. And Just think, It was trans people who were there supporting gay rights from trhe very beginning.
LumpyPillows
That’s not even true. The world you live in is odd. Good for you, but I do not want to live there.
People not agreeing with your demands on language is not transphobic. I support your rights as a full citizen, but you do not get to reinvent all social structures to suit you. It’s your go to shrill attack, but it is wearing out. You are 0.1% of the population. You caused nothing to happen. Your support is meaningless.
BigJohnSF
that’s bullshit – trans people slowed the progress of gay rights at every step – they aren’t even gay
ShiningSex
And just so you know. Midler’s comments were not transphobic you fool. I love my trans brothers and sisters but some are idiots too just like gay men and lesbians. I don’t have to love you because of your identity if you’re making stupid comments. That doesn’t make me transphobic either. Get it right.
I just hate stupid people. I hate transphobic people too and Bette is NOT one. Yes our trans folks helped us in the beginning and celebs like Bette DID TOO!!!!
MystiRivers
You sure seem mentally stable.
Bosch
So Jami addresses the transphobes in the room, and you guys respond. Mhm.
LumpyPillows
Bosch, sweetie, you should probably read what we wrote and address that. Jami comes out as a hater and you rush to her support. Sad.
Boybussy
STONEWALL Riots were started by a black trans woman…not some white Twink like the movie whitewashed!!! That was the true begining of LGBT rights in America. Stop Ron De-Santising history!!
Bosch
A hater? She said she hates transphobes. Are we now defending transphobes?
Don’t end your messages with “Sad.” Trump does that.
shaunpaul1234
Lumpy Pillows, Right On!!
Anytime somone disagrees wth something a trans person says, the new language handed down by th woke committee, re trans, or th fact tht the swimmer is a cheater, u all go the, “u hate trans”, route!! Whn its practically NEVER, is an attack on th person BEING TRANS!! Its just a response to wht is bng said, tht we all r expected to follow, an opinion on a paticular transwoman swimmer who is a cheat!! Thts all!! Hell, theres plenty of non-trans cheaters in life, whn we comment on thm, we arnts commenting on th fact they r not trans, we r commenting on just th fact they r a CHEATER!!
LumpyPillows
Her statement is she hates…with funny letters. Who is she talking about? Just because we disagree does not make us transphobes.
Boybussy- If your are referring to Marsha P. Johnson, he identified as a gay man. He was not at the start of Stonewall – he was passed out during the event. He did not start the riot since he was not there. Your purposeful misinformation is insulting. Stop hijacking our history. Go look it up. In fact, check out the interview he gave where he sets the record straight.
So, here, I’ll help you out since you have not done the work and just repeat what you like – Marsha was a walking dumpster fire. Drunk or drugged out most of the time. He could be counted on for nothing except a photo op. His claim to fame was being in a famous series of transvestites photographed by Andy Warhol. He liked the attention he got from his provocative clothing. He was not transgender.
Sylvia Rivera, another self-avowed gay transvestite, was more involved and was actual there at the start of the riot. He was not transgender either.
There are very few transgender people today and in the 1960s there were almost none. Due to their numbers, they have been irrelevant in the movement except as topics of debate.
inbama
@boybussy
No, Marcia P. Johnson, who has a park named for her, most definitely did NOT start the Stonewall riots.
That is one of the many lies activists keep telling – right up with all children with gender dysphoria are trans, puberty blockers are harmless and completely reversible, and the old having a “woman’s brain.”
What Marsha did do was co-found S.T.A.R. (Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries) with Sylvia Rivera.
ChrisGMN
You are referring to Marsha P. Johnson. If we are going to respect people by addressing them as they chose to be identified, then you are disrespecting Marsha P. Johnson. In Marsha’s own words:
In an interview with Allen Young, in 1972’s, Out of the Closets: Voices of Gay Liberation, Johnson discussed being a “Street Transvestite Action Revolutionary”, saying, “A transvestite is still like a boy, very manly looking, a feminine boy.”[29] Johnson distinguishes this from transsexual, defining transsexuals as those who are on hormones and getting surgery.[29
CurtisIsTheOne
I like what SHINING SEX has to say on the issue! Period!
Rugby8
Mae –
Take a breath, and Back Off
Those of us from “old generations” may not appreciate the subtleties of gender-naming – However, I’m pretty sure Bette’s point was Not Phobic!
RELAX
You need to appreciate, for example, that the last few generations have embraced the word QUEER. I still shudder when I hear it used. Late 1960s, 1970s, and even into the 1980s it was among the WORST things you could be called!!! As bad as the N-word. I got into fights because of that word. It’s Jarring
Some of us come from a time where in order to find a gay bar, you had to Know where it was -in Advance. No signs, No windows. If you traveled, you had to buy a book called The Damron Guide to find out what was “going on” in Minneapolis, or Denver, etc
Please do NOT talk down to Bette for verbalizing something Many people “of a certain age” feel.
Perhaps You should show some sensitivity and realize why it’s Odd to hear.
mastik8
The terms ‘birthing people’, ‘menstruators’, and “people with vaginas” don’t sound or feel very evolved or inclusive of trans people and certainly not of cis women. They sound more like terms a right wing meme factory would come up with to get us fighting amongst ourselves. Evolving and inclusivity are great ideas and go both ways. No one in the trans community wants it to look like they are punching down on fifty percent of the population that are cis women, like cis men have done forever, but the net effect is beginning to look the same. The trans community is even mansplaining to cis women that these terms are not erasure. Hopefully the trans community will evolve to the point where they’ll include a cis woman’s right to refer to herself as she pleases without viewing it as transphobic, exclusive or erasure.
BigJohnSF
“cis woman” means a woman who is not transgender – why is this the reference point?
mastik8
@BigJohnSF- My context was the discussion that resulted from Mae Martin, “…trans/non-binary, not a woman…” directing her comments regarding inclusivity and erasure to Bette Midler, a cis woman, after Midler’s, ‘birthing people’, ‘menstruators’, and “people with vaginas” comment.
still_onthemark
Yes, the terms “birthing people’, ‘menstruators’, and “people with vaginas” sound as if they were created by visitors from the planet Remulac!
mastik8
@still_onthemark – True. I doubt Beldar, Prymaat, I’m sorry I meant Fred or Joyce, or even Connie would approve.
LumpyPillows
Just stop. It’s women and trans women. Stop trying to redefine women to placate ultra-left social engineers and their world war against the patriarchy. It all goes back to the lie that a trans woman is a woman. When you build a house on a bad foundation, it will eventually fall apart. Just admit this is wrong and move on. Or, risk even trans allies from walking away.
BigJohnSF
it’s an oxymoron – Mae is just a moron
BigJohnSF
The narcissism is strong in these people.
Joshua333
Why do you need to know what genitals they have? What is that your fetish or something?
shaunpaul1234
Right-On Macy Gay!! For being, Real, and Honest about ur feelings, feelings i agree wth!! I bought some of ur music!!
U r a GIFTED-SINGER!!
ShiningSex
trans and non-binary? how’s that work? Our community is contributing to our own hate by these idiots that complain about our allies instead of going after the right people plus this cancel culture does need to happen….TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE you fools!!!
Bosch
You’re all saying really shitty things to eachother. And you know what I’ve noticed? You’re all offended. For different reasons, but all offended. And the ones acting the most offended are the ones who constantly complain about other people being offended.
So f-ing trendy.
LumpyPillows
You’ve had better ideas.
Bosch
“It’s insulting and smug.”
You see that? That’s you being offended.
LumpyPillows
If the shoe fits… if this trans non-binary lecturing old gays isn’t insulting and smug to you…we won’t agree on this travesty of a self-important attention seeker.
Bosch
To me this person seems very sympathetic towards Bette Midler, which I would have assumed you would appreciate.
But no, strange gender identifications make people “travesties”. A person trying to mediate a conflict is “lecturing” you. You really had me fooled yesterday, Lumpy.
LumpyPillows
Sweetie, if you can’t see why being told to evolve is insulting, Her entire approach is condescending. This so called “inclusive” language is actual divisive. Please, go call your mother a human who once menstruated. She what a woman has to say about that. I may have also misjudged you too.
Bosch
Go read all your message where you complain about this issue, and then tell me why it bothers you when someone else is also condescending.
richybruce
Great. You’re trans. Congrats. You should be afforded all the rights and respect everyone else enjoys. But stop with the bullshit language already. And stop giving people shit for not wanting to deal with it. Enough already.
LumpyPillows
Bingo.
Diplomat
Home run.
Boybussy
It seems to me one so obsessed with another’s genitalia obviously must be lacking Their own…or maybe compensating for the Smallness of their own genitalia?
leo1008
Queerty has almost completely conflated Civil Rights for Trans people with what could perhaps be called an Extremist Gender Ideology. The two are not the same (no matter how much Twitter might like to insist otherwise).
Everyone here, all commenters, pretty much all Liberals, and, yes, Bette Midler, are totally on board with Civil Rights for Trans people. But Queerty is treating us all like we’re the worst and most reprehensible of villains. By doing so, Queerty is engaging in self-destructive behavior that threatens to backfire on trans people, gay rights, and perhaps our democracy itself. So, FFS, get a grip!
Because the cold hard fact of the matter is that even though Trans people, as I already indicated, already have overwhelming support for their Civil Rights, they will never have much support (let alone majority support) for an Extremist Gender Ideology. Outside of twitter and some progressive woke scolds, literally no one else is going to support the abandonment of words like “women.” That is a hill that the Trans movement will senselessly, tragically, and uselessly destroy itself on; and it may very well take Gay people down with it.
Stop! attacking your own allies because they don’t even know what you’re talking about when you insist upon the latest woke slogan coined a few minutes ago on Twitter. Stop! making yourselves look like worse extremists than anybody wearing a red MAGA hat. Stop! dividing the Left at a time when it could not be more important for us to unite in the face of a genuine threat (from the Right) to our democracy.
This insanity really does need to stop, so for all of our sakes, please just grow the f*$k up!
bachy
Tell it, leo.
Kangol2
Please, can the use of “woke,” which is another right-wing canard, like “SJW,” “snowflake,” “virtue signaling,” “political correctness,” “Cultural Marxism,” etc. It’s as annoying as any pronoun request, actually more so!
shaunpaul1234
Leo1008:
So, ELOQUENTLY, & ACCURATELY, Well-PUT!!
THNK U!!
ducdebrabant
Hear, hear!
Boybussy
While You Idiots bicker amongst yourselves…The Enemy has already taken away a woman’s right to choose, given guns to any maniac with a beef against any marginalized community and are poised to take away gay marriage and enact sodomy laws. So continue to fight and pass insults amongst yourselves…until we are all marched through the streets and publicly stoned for loving who we love.
Kangol2
Well, you may be “marched through the streets and publicly stoned” but they ain’t taking me anywhere without a fight! Don’t give in and give up. FIGHT BACK!
LumpyPillows
Sweeties, march all you want. You want to protect us? Win some elections. You won’t do it with “humans who menstruate” or Drag Queen book reading, which was once cute but has now become political. Do you see the point?
Bosch
Bette Midler did not mean to offend.
Mae did not mean to offend.
And yet, here you all are, being offended and in-fighting.
You can’t blame Queerty for the way you treat eachother.
LeBlevsez
Your first three statements are true.
I take exception with the fourth. Queerty leaned heavily into a ‘Look, we found another TERF’ narrative in the first three Bette articles beginning on July 4, going so far as to insinuate Islamophobia in one. The writers dropped the second accusation when no one bit.
Queerty purposefully lit a fire and continued fuelling it. For eyes and clicks.
Bosch
Yes, we can absolutely blame Queerty for what Queerty does. You’re right about everything you said.
But we can’t blame Queerty for what we do. We’re not automatons, we’re adults (presumably) with free will.
still_onthemark
@Bosch: You seem to be someone who’d get really mad if YOU were offended, so it’s a good thing you’re not!
Bosch
It takes a lot to offend me. I believe that getting angry is like stabbing yourself to hurt someone else.
barryaksarben
About as i am in your trahic hipster photo
shaunpaul1234
Very simple!! U have all ur original parts, u r male, female, women, man!!
U have newly purchased patrs, u r (trans) man, (trans) women, (trans) male, (trans) female!!
NO MATTER which is ur case, u r still a WHOLE, hopefully truly-loving caring human being, like EVERYONE, else!!
jackscott
What??!! This individual is calling him/herself… trans/non-binary, not a woman??? Maybe people don’t need to live their lives on social media, just be “you”… whatever that is…. however, male/female is biological. I suppose surgically you can create any version of that and call yourself a unicorn for all I care… just don’t be upset that others have a different viewpoint!
Neoprene
Mae is a wonderful comedian. Incredibly funny. And I find Mae sexier than boots on a rooster! She is cute x 1000. But her response to Midler is woke cliche ridden drivel. Where does this word poop come from? Therapy sessions?
storm45701
Anyone else hate the term “cis”? Another identifier pushed on us from academia, where it should have eroded among the ivy and brick of the university.
Diplomat
Can’t stand cis. Nor queer, with the etymology deriving from pervert. Poor kids today. They have enough to put up with without this garbage.
Shady Gaga
Bette Midler is a legend and she doesn’t need to evolve.
And you can call yourself whatever new buzzwords have been coined on Twitter, but you can’t negate biology: if you’re pregnant, you’re a woman
mastik8
The powers that be at Queerty, Inc. the wholly-owned subsidiary of Q.Digital, Inc., have decided to shut down free speech. Queerty just posted an article about dead naming Elliot Page and as of this post will not allow comments. So much for open discussion and inclusion. Dissenting opinions are not allowed but remember, that’s not erasure to Queerty. Do better Queerty.
nunya
QWeerty deleted my comment because it doesn’t toe their line on this issue.
ducdebrabant
I don’t understand why women can’t be called women, without excluding Mae Martin from abortion conversations. Throughout the history of liberation struggles, we have ALWAYS allowed minorities to call themselves what THEY wanted. We have NEVER, that I can recall, EVER, told members of a particular minority (not that women even ARE a minority) that they had to be called something imposed from the outside, in order to make members of ANOTHER minority more comfortable. Women don’t need to be called “people who menstruate” in order for anybody else to be part of a common conversation. I’m male, and it seems to me I get to participate in this conversation too. I believe (and I don’t see anything anti-Trans about it) in letting women themselves decide what they want to be called, and when they let me know, that’s what I’ll call them. I’ll call Mae Martin whatever they want to be called, too. But I’ll be damned if I’ll cede to transsexuals the right to rechristen women, against their own will. Too MUCH has been done to women in this world against their will.
LumpyPillows
Bingo.
MystiRivers
Just came back here to let you know that Bette M still doesn’t give a f*ck.
nunya
I just hope she doesn’t issue an apology.
nunya
All this trans crap is going to do is cause a backlash from society at large and we gays are going to lose the ground we’ve gained thus far. All this trans BS flys in the face of common sense.
Diplomat
It’s already happened. My straight roommate says most straight people she knows find the lgbt community as a whole disgusting and the T part with their antics utterly rediculous unworthy of comment.
Thx a mil Ts.
bigrawtop
Who is the gay council leadership that makes up the language and rules? Aren’t the labels -transgendered, trans-men, and non-binary enough? Am I no longer a man, but a person with a penis? If a handful of activists want to go on these way out extensions, fine, but don’t force them on others or call us names if we don’t play your way.
leshawnjackson96
The kind of language Middler is lambasting is not “inclusive”. It dehumanizes women and motherhood, stripping them down to merely biological functions, all for the infinitesimally small number of gender dysphoric females who identify as men. Mae seems like a kind person, but simply identifying as non-binary (which was invented on Tumblr in the 2010s) does not give them the right to tell Middler what kind of language distresses her, as a woman.
Spidey137
Mae seems very intelligent, but maybe in her youth, she missed the point the Divine Miss M was making in her rants. The overturning of Roe v Wade was about taking away the rights of women who can reproduce. Trans rights are their own very important conversation, but this what not what Bette was talking about.
People are easily offended these days. Can’t we all just get along and quit hating on the gay’s wind beneath their wings.
JromeGervais09
I first like to educate you all on the correct spelling of a womans monthly uteran slough of blood which is menstruation. They menstruate, not menstrate. I can easily determine the educational level of most on this blog. Not a very high level. Many of you speaking about others sexual orientation are clueless. I have a FTM friend who did not do surgery to have a penile implant or a reconstruction of his vagina. He kept his vagina, looks like a handsome, hairy man and now identifies as a gay male. Don’t even give him a name. He hates people like you trying to label him. Get off all trans backs and STFU about things of which you know nothing.
LumpyPillows
Then stop telling us what women are. Which is the point.
tallskin4
JromeGervais09- do please ‘Educate’ away! I suppose you mean ‘educate’ as O’brien educates Winston Smith in 1984
‘How many fingers, Winston?’
‘Four! Stop it, stop it! How can you go on? Four! Four!’
‘How many fingers, Winston?’
‘Five! Five! Five!’
‘No, Winston, that is no use. You are lying. You still think there are four. How many fingers, please?’
But unlike O’brien JromeGervais09 you dont’ have any power over us, so I can honestly say how many fingers you’re holding up! And likewise your FTM pal is in reality a woman. And she isn’t a gay man no matter how she and you scream and bully- she is a straight woman with mental health issues.
And what she hates is of no concern of mine or any other real male and real gay man on these boards. If you had any love for this woman friend of yours, you’d get her into therapy pronto.
Some advice: you cannot change your sex no matter how many times you click your heels together
Trans_against-Cissies
All Cis should be eternally grateful for sexy trans girls who have fought for gay rights to own nail varnish and frilly panties