On the surface, outing someone to their family before they’re ready is a big no. But one woman who found herself pushed into a corner did just that, and now she’s wondering if her actions were just.
Posting to the popular ‘AITA’ (Am I The A**hole?) thread, Reddit user life_after_love explains the circumstances — her soon-to-be ex-husband is gay, hid it from her, and cheated on her.
He “admitted that he knew he wasn’t attracted to me that way,” she writes, “but he wanted kids and a ‘normal’ life. I don’t care that he’s gay, but I will never forgive him for leading me on so he could use me to have kids.”
The “problem,” she continues, “is that his family are fundamentalist nutjobs…and his mother is the interfering MIL from hell.”
How about we take this to the next level?
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When her mother-in-law, a devout Mormon, showed up at her door “under the guise of picking up some paperwork,” she “cornered [her] about how [she’s] being childish and marriage is about commitment, forgiveness, and working through problems, etc.”
“It became apparent,” she writes, “that my ex didn’t tell his family that he cheated, he told his mom that I was divorcing him because we weren’t having sex often enough for me. I tried to be patient and explained that he had cheated and that’s why. I wasn’t going to go into greater detail because I know how his parents are and it’s none of their business.”
But after her mother-in-law advised that “men are just that way and if [she] wanted to have sex more and for him not to stray that [she] should make [herself] more attractive to [her] husband and be a better wife,” she let the truth come out.
“It had been a sad and hard day already and that was the last straw,” she explains. “Here’s where I might be the AH: I told her that the only thing that would make me more attractive to my ex would be a sex change operation and that I hoped he and his boyfriend adopted her some grandchildren so she could finally shut the hell up about it. Not my finest moment, but she just hit the worst and rawest nerve she could have and I exploded.”
She adds: “It’s evidently turned into a huge family drama, he’s probably going to be disowned, and my ex called sobbing that I’ve ruined his life out of spite. I don’t really know how to feel about it. I do feel bad for him that his parents are such awful people and there were just no ‘good’ outcomes for him, but I also feel like he made his own bed here, too.”
The post has attracted over 1,000 comments, and most assure her that she is not the a**hole in this situation.
“As a gay person I say NTA,” wrote user Cruitire. “As a general rule I agree with never outing someone. But with one exception. When they are hurting others…In this case he not only hurt you, he was continuing to hurt you.”
Another queer commenter, user RememberKoomValley, agreed: “Speaking as someone who is queer, who has been forcibly outed in the past, who’s been tormented, made homeless, fired from jobs for not being straight–yeah, OP is 100% NTA here.”
“A person doesn’t get to control their ex’s narrative when a relationship has ended. A cheater doesn’t get to expect protection from their ex. And he knew from the start and used her–if he wanted to not be outed, he should have made it very clear to his family that the breakup was his fault, and he should have told them that he is the one who caused it.”
Thoughts?
radiooutmike
I think the ultimate assholery is the ex-husband not telling his family his culpability.
He could not even have had to come out. He could of have just said he cheated and it was a marriage-ending mistake. But telling his mommy that her daughter in law is divorcing is him for not getting the big D enough? All bets are off.
RJJ
I understand and empathize with her frustration. She is not an a-hole, just a normal, frustrated person.
BUT —
She should have said something along the lines of, “You need to seriously talk with your son so that you really understand what is going on.” The son/husband needed to be the one to have an honest and difficult discussion.
I know this advice is easier said than done and, again, I understand her response.
tjack47
I don’t wonder. I’ve no doubt.
cubcmh
Oh well, she had a sad an hard day, so it’s excusable. Not.
Donston
I will once again reiterate that sexuality, love, preferences, partnership is more than just attractions. And the gender, sexual, affection, romantic, emotional investment, commitment spectrum is wide and varied. While male homophobia, internalized phobias, self-misandry/misogyny, confusions, fluidity, religion, ego, trauma, mental health, family, sociology, money are all huge guiding forces.
My thing is always live your life as you wish just try not to hurt people. Don’t manipulate someone that you plan to build a partnership/family with. There are many excuses to be made, but a lot of dudes simply don’t care about manipulating women and primarily using women for ego or kids or religion and/or hookup purposes. Try to be real with someone about your dimensions and what you want out of the dynamic and why you wish to invest in them. Because it’s always gonna come back to bite.
Going to his parents probably wasn’t the move. However, I can understand that type of urge if you genuinely feel like you’ve been played and manipulated. But you’re not getting much out of going to his parents but some shallow “revenge”, which she already feels guilty about. So, it’s not worth it.
Cam
She didn’t go to his parents, the mother in law showed up, cornered her, and kept telling herself to make herself more attractive and he wouldn’t cheat.
Donston
That’s not really “cornering” someone. You act like she went the the girl’s house and held her at gunpoint. She could have simply cut off the mother. However, I understand feeling the need to defend yourself when you’ve been hurt and someone is trying to blame you.
Cam
My argument wasn’t about whether or not she felt cornered. You presented it as if she sought out the mother. She didn’t, the mother in law came to her.
RyanMBecker
Donation wrote: “Going to his parents probably wasn’t the move.”
Please quote where in the story this happened. I read it three times and don’t see where it is even implied that she went to her ex-mother-in-law, much less both “parents.” In fact, she clearly dislikes the entire family, describing them as “fundamentalist nutjobs…and his mother is the interfering MIL from hell.” In other words, she wants no contact with any of them, ever again.
Instead, the MIL came to her. And if we are to believe the writer, the trip was solely to blame and badger her for the breakup. The need for papers was just an excuse. In other words, the MIL did indeed corner the writer. And not only did she blame the writer for the breakup, she insulted her by calling her unattractive. And the son lied, not by saying that there were incompatibilities — but that she was basically a nymphomaniac.
Basically, the entire family is toxic. Why should she have to put up with them, and have her name trashed in the community? You can bet that the MIL is a big gossip, who’d defend the reputation of her son at all cost. Had she not put a stop to it then and there, not only would the MIL have continued to overstay her unwelcome fraudulent visit, but there’s no telling where the abuse would end. What gives you the idea that the MIL would suddenly stop holding a grudge, and stop visiting and gossiping?
After the apparently contentious breakup, she had no obligations, whether moral or legal, to keep up his lie. I would agree that she shouldn’t broadcast it unprovoked, but that clearly wasn’t the case here. SHE WAS CORNERED. And by all indications, she would be cornered again. If the ex-husband doesn’t want these situations to occur then he should’ve reined in his mother. AND NOT LIED AT HER EXPENSE. At the very least, he should’ve warned his ex-wife that he lied about her sexual appetite. But did he offer her that courtesy? No. In fact, the writer was clueless about what the family knew. If he didn’t have the courtesy to keep her abreast about the situation, she was under no obligations to play along.
Not only do I not blame the writer for anything that ensued, I’m happy for it. I’m glad that the entire family, including the ex-husband, is suffering. And in the end, it’ll probably benefit the husband anyway. It certainly benefits his boyfriend, who probably wan’t thrilled about having to be closeted in their Mormon drama. And thanks to her, the boyfriend is spared of the meddling MIL from hell.
Donston
Ryan, even I don’t do all of that in a single post. But yes, she’s not an “asshole”.
Cam
“”But after her mother-in-law advised that “men are just that way and if [she] wanted to have sex more and for him not to stray that [she] should make [herself] more attractive to [her] husband and be a better wife,” she let the truth come out.””
This right here is what Mormon Bishops are trained to tell wives whose husbands cheat. In the Mormon church nothing is the man’s fault (Unless they’re gay), any other marital issues are laid out as, the wife isn’t taking time with her appearance, the wife is spending too much time with the kids, the wife isn’t sleeping with the husband enough.
The men who created and still run that church have ensured that it is a haven for men to live blameless. If a couple does split up, it’s always the wife’s fault.
Mundo
Bien dicho.
miller2900
…. the ex-wife actually did the ex-husband a favor that he will end up thanking her for later after he “grows a pair” and tells his parent right where they can go for their life long attempt to manipulate him into their twisted organized religious beliefs! The really big AH ARE the sick & twisted parents that apparently shoved THEIR ORGANIZED RELIGOUS BELIEFS down their son’s throat from birth…. only it didn’t stick thankfully! I’m old enough to be a grandparent and I still get extremely angry (no kidding) at any parent that “just doesn’t get it” when it comes to force feeding children religious beliefs typically with a mega dose of some kind of guilt plowed on top of it. Remember parents of the old saying “you reap what you sow” so if your kids end one day telling you to take a flying leap off a short cliff you deserved what you got! My own eighty something parents still don’t get it…. its everybody else’s fault but their own. Its no wonder three out of four adult children live in other states far away from the state they grew up in. The fourth was unfortunately trapped in bad choice marriages that resulted in children otherwise I have no doubt they would have fled the state.
Jaquelope
That’s why I’m grateful to my parents for teaching me that not everything taught by our church was the absolute truth, to “test the spirits” and to come to our own conclusions about religion.
When I came out to my mother, she advised me not to come out to my dad, because he would have thrown a fit, but she accepted me. I did, eventually come out to my father, and the only thing he had a problem with, was in the letter to the editor of a local newspaper opining about a recent (at that time) incident of homophobia, that he didn’t know the meaning of a word I had used, mistaking the word “congenital” with “genetic”. Once I explained the difference, it was never mentioned again, and my relationship with him improved 100%. I also suspect that he had his own boy-crushes with a few of his contemporaries when he was younger, because any time this one person was mentioned, the love he had for that person was blatantly evident. If someone has lost an ex and still has feelings for that person, it is obvious to other people.
jayceecook
I seem to be in the minority but I think she is the a**hole. She did it the way she did because she wanted her soon to be ex-husband to hurt on a similar level as she was. That’s not to excuse what the husband did. However, she knew that his family, especially the MIL, would react badly to this revelation because they are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Not to mention the anger it would cause the MIL in that moment. The ex-wife even alludes to this very fact. I’m not surprised though. People will always favor revenge over restorative justice.
Cam
Except he was willing to mess with her life and enter into a relationship with her under false pretenses to cover his own a**. Then can’t even keep up the façade very long and cheats.
If he was going to do something like that it isn’t a stretch to think he was going to get outted.
Jaquelope
In some ways I would agree with you, but she seemed to love him enough, despite the lies and betrayal, to not want to have his mother/family make things worse.
She could have handled it differently, it is true, but her MIL was just as much to blame, along with the LDS church “teachings” that are the A**holes here.
JWs are very similar in many of their “teachings”, and neither one is worth a tinker’s damn.
Donston
I could agree with you more if she actively sought out his parents to “expose” him. If we’re entirely believing what she’s saying then his very religious mother was blaming her for the separation and trying to get answers out of her. She definitely could have kept her cool and kept it cute. But when you feel hurt and manipulated and feel like you’re being blamed, most of the time shit is gonna get exposed.
Also, yes, it’s surprising how naive folks can be. But it’s a lil hard to believe after years of a relationship that she didn’t realize that her husband had zero attractions to her. It’d be one thing if he’s generally overall homo-leaning and/or has contended with some degrees of fluidity. A lot of people see what they want to see and ignore the rest.
This is why it’s so important that no matter how much you trust your partner, how much you like/love someone, how religious you are, what people’s identities are- you have to have real conversations about sexuality, fluidity/contradictions, experiences, what motivates their behaviors and identities and relationship goals, mental health, the gender, sexual, romantic, emotional investment, commitment spectrum. Those convo’s may be uncomfortable. But it’s better to do it than to fully invest in someone that you mostly only know on the surface.
Openminded
Going by the story, I’m going to give her a pass on this one. It doesn’t appear she outed him at her own convenience just for the sake of revenge. She was personally attacked by the MIL who came to her house and insulted her attractiveness which even any gay man should know is a big no no when it comes to women. Yes, she could have taken the high road and blown the MIL off, but the soon to be ex caused all of this with his lies so I can’t blame the wife for not supporting him with more lies. We can all be pushed to the breaking point, and this lady was definitely being pushed hard.
RyanMBecker
Er no. You seem to be implying that it was a planned calculated move. Read the piece again and you’d see that it was impulsive, provoked by a meddlesome MIL who cornered her under false pretenses. The MIL’s only purpose there was to blame and badger the writer. And to call her unattractive.
Where in the piece is it even implied that she was vengeful? Or want any more contact with the entire family, which she described as “nutjobs”??? She admitted that she didn’t forgive her ex, boy that’s a far cry from wanting revenge.
So no, there was no planning or vengefulness. She wasn’t even aware of what the husband revealed to his family — or that he called her a nymphomaniac.
The writer’s only motive was to stop the badgering and get rid of the MIL’s unwanted visit. The fact that the entire family, including the ex-husband, is being punished is just a nice bonus.
jayceecook
I wasn’t going to respond to any of the comments because honestly I didn’t expect to get any replies and it’s just not worth the energy at the end of the day. However, after reading the entire post on Reddit, her updates, and more updates this whole situation is not as simple as it seems.
I will say after reading everything she has written there seems to be some confusion about a few things. The MIL didn’t just randomly come over. The ex-wife was passing on the last of her ex-husbands things to her. The ex-wife also works with some of his other relatives. So that was her choice to engage with the MIL whom she knew was going to “push all get buttons”. She says that she feels bad about the way she outed him but not necessarily outing him. She also mentions she is going into therapy because she was having problems with her relationship and marriage outside of the ex-husband being gay thing before she caught him cheating. From what I’ve read it seems he has a ton of issues related from his family being uber, fundy members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Not that that excuses anything he did but it provides important context. She’s also a member but a lacks one apparently. I don’t know. This whole thing is extremely complicated and more nuanced than originally presented. I still stand by everything I previously said though maybe I have gained a grain or two more sympathy for her. It is what it is and my opinion isn’t going to change. Wish the both of them a better life than the one they had together.
jayceecook
@RyanMBecker You’re making a ton of assumptions there. Assumptions that are putting words “into my mouth” that I did not “say”. You clearly don’t even have some of the basic facts down. No need to be so hostile when what you’re saying is not completely accurate. This is one of the reasons why I said in my previous reply I have no desire to argue back and forth on this subject.
Cam
@jayceecook, you mentioned “She also mentions she is going into therapy because she was having problems with her relationship and marriage outside of the ex-husband being gay thing before she caught him cheating.”
I’m wondering how many of the issues or problems in the marriage were actually about him being closeted and her not knowing. Things like “He isn’t affectionate, he doesn’t want to sleep with me, he shuts down and doesn’t communicate when we spend time together” could all be tracked back to him being closeted and not happy married to a woman. All that wasted energy. ugh.
AZ71
I think its wrong to out someone, unless they are actively in the community doing things to hurt LGBTQ folks (like leaders passing laws against LGBTQ or other influential people). Then to me its ok. Its good to show hypocrisy because their lies only hurt other people.
baggins435
I lived in Utah for about 20 years. Some LDS are real nutjobs, and more than a few of them I met were among the most unethical people I have ever known. Others were some of the nicest, most understanding people you could ever hope to know. The ones I worked with didn’t seem to have an issue with my being gay, and I was probably the first out gay man they met. Fortunately, my company was not based in Utah and had a total non-discrimination policy. Other gay men I met who were born and raised in Utah, and particularly the LDS faith, had much worse times growing up there. There are a lot of kids kicked out for being gay. The pressure for procreation is very real. It was the first time I heard about having a “second family” which is having more kids when the last of the first batch is in high school. More than one of my co-workers had 8 siblings. Couples are expected to start having kids as soon as they get married.
Personally, I don’t think the OP is the AH for outing him to his family. He lost his right to privacy when he not only cheated, but lied to his parents about the reason for the divorce. If he wanted any respect, he should have given it first.
barryaksarben
Anyone who works against gays should be outed in the most public way possible and I hardly ever think it should be used but I do have a very hard time when a person KNOWS they are gay and marries someone who they havent told. I knew a wonderful woman in LA in the early 80s who died of AIDS because her husaband was on the downlow and never told her. She told me they had a decent sex life – nothing to brag about but for him or any gay man to FOOL another person into marrying them is WRONG and they are the asshole. I GIVE HER A PASS HERE
Fahd
He “made his bed”, no doubt about it, and if the story hasn’t been embellished I think it would be too much to ask for her to continue to play the heavy for his family. Too bad he wasn’t mature enough to take responsibility. Won’t be the first messy divorce.
Despite his deception and his shifting blame where his parents were concerned, I hope that he gets some help in processing all this – there’s a lot to come to terms with about himself. Eventually, I hope he can go on with his life in a more authentic manner.
Inspector 57
Let’s see… She was forced into making a choice between:
(A) Protecting her own reputation, mental health, and financial security while simultaneously promoting Truth, or;
(B) Sacrificing all of that in order to protect her lying, cheating husband, to make life more comfortable for her selfish and invasive MIL, and to complicitly endorse the hatred that the LDS Church spews.
Ummmm… Wait. Did I say “choice?” To me, there was only one fair, rational, and difficult action for her to take, and it wasn’t to ensure the comfort of other people at her own expense.
dmhandy
The young lady was put in a difficult position by a mother in law who obviously does not know that her son’s sexual orientation can not be alter by lip stick and a Wonderbra. I suspect the mother probably suspected her son is gay and expected her daughter in law to change him. The mother might even feel guilty about making an error that made her son gay.
The young lady’s reaction was not out of anger. I am sure she has some resentment because her ex-husband had cheated on her but she knew her mother in law was a zealot. What happened to the young lady’s ex-husband would probably have happened sooner or later.
The exes need to move on with their lives. The ex-husband being disowned is probably a blessing. He can move on with his life without have his zealot family breathing down his neck. Sometimes, the best family is not always the biological family.
nunya
She’s not the asshole.
Essie
Definitely not!!
Tombear
I guess he won’t be going to Golum to be reunited with his family. Phttt, oh well.
NateOcean
Kolob?
jayceecook
It’s called Kolob not Golum. LOL Not all believers go there anyway so I doubt it matters.
ShiningSex
It’s 2021, NO ONE should be in the closet.
Also, if he’s gay and “used” her as a beard. Shame on him.
It’s never good for use someone when you’re not dealing with your issues.
Deal with it single and go from there. Never bring someone into your own drama.
Come out and be proud.
She’s not an asshole.
KZNBama
I would so hate to occupy a world in which this woman is considered an asshole. From the information given, I doubt that she would have said anything to his family about his orientation had the MIL from Hell not provoked her. The real question in my mind is why her ex wants to continue being a part of that family. What is in that for him? Certainly no good old-fashioned Christian unconditional love.
MISTERJETT
yes!!!!
andrewmpls
Definitely NTA. She acted like any normal, rational person would when getting attacked for something where they did nothing wrong and are actually a victim themselves. Her asking this question in the first place goes to show she’s a good person who got caught in a no-win situation. The MIL is the real asshole, here.
winemaker
Where do I begin here? First things first: she knew her boyfriend was gay yet went ahead and married the guy hoping he’d change and become a ‘family man’, wrong! People are either born gay or straight and it’s been scientifically proven and it isn’t a lifestyle choice, it’s a life. And she’s surprised he cheated on her, like if she didn’t know something like this would happen as he admitted he wasn’t attracted to her before they got married, she’s clueless sad to say. What were the both of these folks thinking? . And as for the cult of ‘mormanism’ again where do i begin here as anyone who’s been paying attention knows the mormon church is anti gay and anti everything else that doesn’t conform to their weird beliefs Some things are unforgivable and outing her ex to his mormon family falls under this category yet we often do things like this out of spite and revenge without thinking of the long term consequences. And as for her mother in law, the reason for the divorce is none of her G damned business, period and the daughter in law should have said it plain and simple, talk to your son, get the hell out and don’t waste my time
Donston
There’s nothing in her post suggesting that she knew before they were married. I don’t know where you got that. There is a decent chance that she suspected something, because it’s very hard to be completely obtuse when it comes to legit homosexuality if you’ve been with someone for years. But based on the post he didn’t tell her anything until they were married and he started cheating.
There are homosexuals who are in hetero commitments, prefer to be in them and will forever prefer to be in them. Just like there are guys who are inherently heterosexual or sexually hetero-leaning who are always more drawn to same-sex investment and commitment. It’s just not as widely talked about, because it’s not as common and those guys often still try to retain hetero appeal and relationships. Also, while many people are born a certain type of way and stay in that area of the spectrum forever, fluidity and contradictions are fairly common for queers. And the gender, sexual, affection, romantic, emotional investment, commitment spectrum is wide and varied. But the fact that he didn’t keep it real with her about his dimensions and motivations and was clearly more driven by his religion, his family, his ego and sociology than by anything else is wrong.