It’s too early to provide the ethno- and sociographic breakdown of all of New York’s gay newlyweds. But the AP certainly shows that marriage is not always just a white proposition. In fact, it’s important to remember that the law also allows bisexual and trans folk to get married as well. Will the racial marriage stats help destroy the concept of a racial divide in terms of marriage being a “white issue”? And if not, what can bridge the gap?
RACE TO THE ALTAR
Bi-Racial, Elderly, Hispanic… How Many Non-White NY Couples Are Tying The Knot?
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Jim
Marriage is a “white issue?” I honestly have not heard that. Could you please elaborate?
Paco
@Jim: I think its a reference to a comment on another post. Something about how we forget there are race related issues when it comes to marriage equality. Sounded like a bit of a stretch to me as I see those issues being more cultural rather than legal in our current legal system.
Amanda
I don’t understand what you are trying to say, Queerty… you’re combining the topic of what you call “racial marriages” with the topic of bisexual & transgendered marriages, and you’re doing so in a way that doesn’t make sense. The way this article is written implies that only non-Caucasian people are bisexual or transgendered. And what exactly is a “racial marriage” supposed to be, anyway? Marriage is marriage… And what do you mean when you say that marriage is a “white issue”? People of all sorts of ethnic backgrounds – or different skin colors, if that’s what you’re getting at – want to get married. And for the record, I’m Caucasian but my skin has never been white. And are you trying to imply that “white” people aren’t “racial”? Because I’m pretty sure that every person is “racial”, which just implies the possession of characteristics of any race. Or am I wrong and there are some people who are exempt? For the record, the definition of “race” I’m using states that it’s “a group of persons related by common descent or heredity”. (Dictionary.com)
Politically Incorrect Thug
Of course, of course, because among Queerty’s hip liberals, you’re definitely not hip unless you’re non-white.
Victor
You raise two interesting and related points, albeit somewhat awkwardly. Out here in California, much of the outreach prior to Prop 8 was almost exclusively devoted towards the upwardly mobile, Chardonnay-sipping, Volvo-driving, Queerty-reading white population. There was very little outreach to communities of color who could have helped tipped the scales in our favor. (And by “our favor,” I mean those of us who support same-sex marriage vs. those of us who do not. I, for one, am not interested in parroting heteronormative behavior whatever the tax benefits are.) And, btw, I’m not at all suggesting that blacks and Latinos were the reason why Prop. 8 failed. It’s simplistic and it’s wrong to see it that way. We lost because the other side did a better job. Period.
But it is typical, sadly, because when we need the support of these communities of color for issues that benefit all of us, we are shocked – Shocked! – when there is none forthcoming. And why is that? Because Racism and transphobia are very real issues among the GLBTQ set and people of color see through the b.s. We only seem to knock on their doors when we need money, votes and manpower for awareness-raising campaigns.
Your issue about bisexuals and transgenders being allowed to get married is often overlooked but I’m not sure I get the point. Can’t these subgroups be white as well?
JayKay
@Politically Incorrect Thug:
Well yeah duh. White people are totally too mainstream. I only like them ironically.
Excuse me, I’m gonna go read some African literature you plebs have never heard of.
J. Bocca
Can we start giving out awards for dumb nonsense articles? Cos this one sucks royally.
LeNair Xavier
@Jim: Gay marriage is very much a “white issue”. And I have said this often on my blog and others how it is mainly due to the racism that plagues the American gay community that few gay media sources have the guts to bring to the forefront.
Most non-whites who are running to get married are doing so as a means to be accepted by assimilating the white powers-that-be. Because all the white activists’ political rhetoric claimed how we needed to join together. But just as I said in my poem, “Faux Rainbow”, now that marriage equality has been accomplished in NY state, watch many of these gay white activists, media sources, and businesses go back to their racist and separatist business as usual. That is until the next idea of a right to fight for comes to mind for them.
And this is not be suffering from ABMS (Angry Black Man Syndrome) as many whites have often tried to portray me as suffering from. Instead, this is me being honest about the world we live in. And the way I stay content is by having enough self-esteem to be an INDIVIDUAL THINKER, and see the truth of not just our community, but the entire world we live in.
xander
@LeNair Xavier: You may have explained how marriage equality is a “white issue” on your blog (no link?) but you haven’t done so yet in this comment area. So, please expound.
Is there a difference between hetero & same-sex marriages as being a “white issue”?
J. Bocca
LeNair Xavier get a life moron. Gay marriage is not a white issue. So ridiculous it’s almost comical.
LeNair Xavier
@xander: I have no problem with including a link. I was simply waiting for someone with an open enough mind to ask:
http://menofcolor.blogs.com/moc_blog/2010/06/guest-commentary-why-do-blacks-give-gay-marriage-a-so-what-.html
And while you’re at it feel free to check out my poem, “Faux Rainbow” that I also mentioned in my comment which will also help expound:
http://www.tresx-rayvision.com/2011/06/challenger-faux-rainbow.html
As for your last question, to be honest, I’m not sure I’m understanding it correctly. Are you asking me if whites concern themselves more with marriage in general than other ethnicities? If so, the answer is NO. Now, if I’m misunderstanding your question, then please elaborate.
Victor
@J. Bocca. Do you have anything constructive to add or are ad hominem attacks on people and authors your modus operandi? If so, it’s sad and, frankly, dull.
Afro Boricua
@Victor: I agree, Victor. J.Bocca seems to be a very bitter person. He stated, he’s in a cast. I told him, he should be in a casket, not a cast. LOL
J. Bocca
I said I was in a cast, and Maybe I would have some more to add if this site wasn’t full of such ridiculousness. Someone has to call you loons out on it. LMFAO. You’re probably the same person leaving comments under a different name because I refuse to believe there are so many uneducated people out there. haha.
J. Bocca
Also this site seems to be really racist and race consumed, maybe they should change the name to theblackpantherhomos.com.
Afro Boricua
@LeNair Xavier: LeNair Xavier, sometimes the truth hurts. You are on point with your comment. White gays and lesbians aren’t a minority in the United States. They belong to the 220 million white majority population. Gay black men and Afro Latinos not only have to deal with discrimination of being gay. We have to deal with discrimination base on our race/skin color and not being Caucasian. I’ve gone to mostly white gay establishments in D.C., Philly, Baltimore, and New York. I was treated like a leper, by the majority of the white gay males in the club. I was with a group of all whites and one white looking Mexican American. They too noticed the treatment I recieved. Therefore, you aren’t being paranoid.
Afro Boricua
@J. Bocca: Like a said, you deserve to be in a casket, six feet under and I’m not talking about the old HBO series.
Victor
@J. Bocca Maybe you should talk to your doctor about Divalproex. Or, I don’t know, get a hobby.
J. Bocca
Afro Boricua, you obviously have no arguement, that’s probably one of the lamest sentences I’ve ever read. Nice try though, stick to things your good at, like being delusional about life. Maybe you can go start a blog like lenair on how shitty your life is because of your black skin. lol
J. Bocca
Also I’d like to point out since being a gay black man is so hard in America, why don’t you guys head back on over to your mother land, You know Africa, Becuase they treat gays there sooo much better. Ghana anyone?
J. Bocca
Victor why don’t you get a hobby? Stayin on my jock isn’t one, I suggest tennis.
xander
@LeNair Xavier : Thanks for the reply! I’ll get a chance to read your blog later tonight or more likely tomorrow, so will comment plus answer your questions then.
I’m so behind on a couple chores at home now (and of course I’d rather read than hang shelves, but……)
ewe
Remember when biracial marriages were not considered traditional marriages? There is evil in them those homophobes that must still be stood up to. No federal joint tax returns allowed yet. This is not equality. Congrats to all the couples.
ewe
@Jim: That theory that marriage is a white issue originates from the fact that gay white people started the movement. That fact is true and worthy of being proud. Get over it. I remember years ago when some said gay marriage was only for rich gay white men and there were more serious problems to deal with so therefore all gay people should stop their own lives until every minority was saved. Let’s give credit to those who deserve it and remind everyone of those that said it was a useless goal and a kick in the teeth to every one of color. It is sort of like saying that since there were no more automobile parts after the Japanese tsunami everyond should have stopped driving because there was a bigger issue of increasing gasoline prices.
jp
if you don’t get why this article makes sense, especially if you are white, there is probably a reason for that.
Dave
I’m just going to put this out there and say that I think a lot of this talk about “white gays” being somehow particularly more racist than average is actually just being stirred up by people pretending like they care about queer people of color. Anyone can pretend to be a QPOC on the internet behind a fake identity, and go on and on about racist white gays to try to stir up division in our community.
All I have to go by is what I’ve seen out there — yes there are times when white people say and do things that make me cringe (gay or str8) but by and large, the queer community that I see out there at the clubs is big and awesome and diverse and has a whole lot of identities going on. Yes, some smaller subsets of the LGBT world gravitate to particular watering holes, etc. (I’ve been held up at the door of lesbian club, for example, while other girls got in ahead of me… oh well.. ) Now, you might not be able to force everyone in the world to be attracted to everyone, but we can ask for and model respect for each other, and that’s something we can all do. White queers in particular need to step up and be willing to socialize more with queer POC. But to make it seem like they have some huge problem that straight people don’t is a little much, and I sometimes wonder just who are these people who keep repeating that “white gays hate blacks” refrain… Because it doesn’t match what I’ve seen out in the LGBT social scene.
Victor
@Dave So am I to understand, then, that because you don’t think it’s so, it’s not? You keep referring back to your own world experience but you make no specific references. Where is this blazing diversity? In clubs? Among peer groups? In employment hiring practices? In the GLBTQ leadership?
I only ask because I see the opposite everywhere. On hook-up sites (“Whites only, just a preference”), in clubs (where the only time you see young Asians co-mingling, it’s with overweight, moneyed men in their 50s who drive convertibles and have homes in La Jolla), in the GLBTQ “leadership” (Joe Solmonese, Dave Geffen, Dan Savage) and, mostly depressingly of all, the GLBTQ media. Logo, The Advocate, Gay.com, Andrew Sullivan, Michael Signorile, etc., etc. all seem to think that our community, dominated as it is by the white male community, only have an interest in the narrative of other white, middle-class, gay men.
And don’t even get me started on the gay Adult Entertainment Industry which I’ve covered for the last seven-or-so years.
So, yes, if you choose to look for it, I suppose you can find your post-racial heaven, but the reality on the ground is quite different to these jaded eyes.
Dave
No one thinks we live in post-racial heaven, and I’d be interested to know what your definition of it looks like?
What I’m saying is I don’t see what makes gay white guys so much more racist than general white society? It sounds to me more like a talking point you hear from Black religious leaders — about how these terrible white haters are moving into town, taking all the affordable housing and planting flowers, etc, etc., and this is why we must fight the gay agenda.
And seriously, yeah, I’ve been to the big clubs in my city, and everyone goes there. Everyone. No one gets turned away. It doesn’t matter how horrendous the makeup job on the craziest gender bending bi-racial drag queen — you’ll be welcomed,, and people who are looking to have fun and mingle can do so just fine. If you walk in there with a preconceived notion about “the kind of people who go to that club” then yes, your attitude will be visible from across the room, and no, nobody will want to hang out with you. The world is not perfect, by far, and there are white guys — gay and str8 – who can say and do some pretty mean things, but this constant, broad-brush painting of ALL white gays as being ALL a bunch of racists is frankly overblown and every reasonable person knows this.
The ones who keep yammering on about racist white gays are just talking to themselves… people would listen if you had something to say.
Afro Boricua
@Victor: Amen to your comment. Sometimes, the truth hurts or people only see what they want to see. The mostly white gay community isn’t inclusive of black gay men. I happen to be one of these gay black men who have had these bad experiences. I can tell you, I’ve experience more prejudice from gay white males than I have from straight gay males. Many of the gay white males in D.C. seem to have a chip on their shoulders and there’s racial tensions between the black D.C. community as a whole and gay white males living in the District of Columbia.
Victor
@Afro Boricua Thanks and I agree. I can’t have a reasoned debate with people who either want to be silly – a la Mr. Bocca – or speak in sweeping generalities like Dave (who I am sure is probably a nice guy.)
I’ve tried to give concrete examples where I think whites in the gay community have – intentional or otherwise – given short shrift to gay people of color. (Bilerico.com actually does a FANTASTIC job in their transgender coverage, btw.) I’m not saying every white gay male is racist any more than every black male sees Racism around every corner but as the saying goes: If it smells like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
V.
Afro Boricua
@Victor: Agreed and noted. J. Bocca is a bitter person and he’s probably one of the people we are referencing. He stated, he was wearing a cast. I told him, he shouldn’t be wearing a cast, but in a casket. LOL