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murder

Did Model Renato Seabra Kill His Gay Activist Boyfriend Carlos Castro And Cut His Scrotum Off?

Carlos Castro — the 65-year-old Angolan-born Portuguese columnist, TV journalist, and gay activist — was found in his New York City hotel room lying face-up in a pool of his own blood — with his scrotum cut off and his bead bludgeoned, the NYDN reports. His suspected paramour Renato Seabra, the fashion and underwear model who was staying with Castro at the InterContinental, was arrested hours later after officials tracked him down at a Midtown hospital when a nurse tipped them off. Seabra, who competed on (but did not win) the Portuguese modeling reality show A Procura Do Sonho (Pursuit of a Dream), was there seeking treatment for cuts and scrapes. That’s a pretty damning scenario given witnesses saw the pair arguing loudly just hours before Castro’s body was found after a visiting friend — who spotted Seabra in the lobby leaving the hotel, and who had gone to dinner with the pair just days before — could not reach him in his room. The pair were in town to spend New Year’s Eve in the city and catch a few Broadway shows including Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark.

 

Below, a scene of Seabra on the reality show:

By:           JD
On:           Jan 8, 2011
Tagged: , , , , , , ,
  • 134 Comments
    • Raquel
      Raquel

      Carlos Castro was actually 65 years old !

      Jan 8, 2011 at 4:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mykey
      Mykey

      @Raquel: looks more like 75! That young dude must have been really desperate for money!

      Jan 8, 2011 at 4:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dina
      Dina

      Carlos Castro happened to be the most famous out celebrity in Portugal. Or, at least, the only one brave enough to talk about it. His death is creating shockwaves in Portugal.
      It annoys me how his death is being reported. He was more than this. He was a highly respected journalist, with a very popular column. This is a tragedy.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 6:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      Castro was dating some guy FORTY years younger than him?!? That’s disgusting! Doesn’t say much for character of Seabra either. Of course if Seabra DID kill Castro that would obviously speak far worse about his character.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 6:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Raquel
      Raquel

      Older richer people date younger people all the time… Hugh Heffner, Larry King… Carlos just happened to be gay ! He was hated my many but also loved by many and did an amazing job as an activist and its so sad that this has happened !

      Jan 8, 2011 at 6:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      This is tragic.

      Some people have trouble selling their bodies. They feel disgusted with themselves and this disgust is transformed into hate towards their clients. It is a very complicated thing.

      Older gay guys who still want to make love to youngsters have to be extremely careful in their choices. Or just forget about it.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 6:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @John: Your statement about age differences is what is disgusting. Immature brat. Do you think that every adult has to be as shallow and childish as you?

      Jan 8, 2011 at 7:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      This sounds like a hate crime to me.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 7:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • OrchidIslander
      OrchidIslander

      @John: “Castro was dating some guy FORTY years younger than him?!? That’s disgusting!”

      John:

      Who decides what is “disgusting” for other people’s relationships?

      Plenty of people date someone outside of societal imposed boundaries be it age, race or what have you. Some relationships are mutual admiration and some mutual utilitarian. It’s really no one’s business.

      Your “disgusting” comment is the same one used by my-holier-than-thou relatives when they learned I was gay and in a relationship with a man.

      Obviously I am wrong, yet I would like to think that gay people are more progressive than that.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @Raquel: So? That’s just as disgusting, if not parodied more often for being better known.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 8:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @ewe: What’s truly “shallow” is an old man trying to relive his youth through the body of someone FORTY years youngers than him. Ditto for the younger guy undoubtedly seeking to take advantage of Castro’s wealth and fame. You see this far too often among straights, see Hugh Hefner as someone else pointed out. This wasn’t a relationship between 2 equals, unless you want to say that Castro was emotionally stunted and that I find to be disgusting.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 8:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @OrchidIslander: By the same token, who are you to judge my comments eh?

      Jan 8, 2011 at 8:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hf2hvit
      hf2hvit

      @John:

      Who are you to judge? THE DATING POLICE??? Don’t gays get judged enough by breeders?

      Jan 8, 2011 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hf2hvit
      hf2hvit

      ” This wasn’t a relationship between 2 equals…”

      You must have some life judging everybody and every relationship and getting up every morning thinking that the world lives by your standards. Sad.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 9:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      John is upset because he’s looking for a sugar daddy and can’t find one.

      His comments don’t need to be judged. They speak for themselves. They are moronic.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 9:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @hf2hvit: Lovely. You cry about how I’m “judging” folks and then use a pejorative like “breeders”. Irony much?

      Jan 8, 2011 at 9:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @hf2hvit: Nope. I find it disgusting, others may not. Good for them, but that doesn’t change my view.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 9:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @justiceontherocks: Lemme guess: you too are crying about judging others while doing exactly the same thing. I’m satisfied with the standard of living I enjoy thanks to my own efforts and not by prostituting myself out to some guy 40 years older than me (nearly 60 years if we’re talking about Hefner).

      Jan 8, 2011 at 9:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @ John – no, I just can’t stand judgmental people who think theirs is the only correct view of life, or claim to be expert on the motives of people they don’t know. But I’m glad to know your life is going well and I hope you can upgrade to that double-wide trailer real soon.

      Go be pathetic somewhere else.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 9:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @justiceontherocks: Of course I never said that my view is the “only correct view of life”. That’s something which you ironically are imparting upon me. What I did say is that I find this to be disgusting. I find the act of picking one’s nose and eating what they remove from within their nostrils to be disgusting as well, but lemme guess I shouldn’t because that would “judging” right. Nostril pickers of the world unite! Justiceontherocks is your champion.

      Gimme a break.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 10:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hmmm
      hmmm

      Just saw that video clip. So sad. It seems like the young man was doing well for himself as a well-known model. Plus he is just a very handsome guy. Now his life is most likely in ruin for years or decades to come…and for what? A swanky lifestyle bankrolled by the now-dead Castro? Yikes.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 10:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @skbnwinters: die bitch. just die.

      dont reply.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 10:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ron
      ron

      Disgusting! How broke do you have to be to sell yourself to a decrepit old troll pervert like that?

      Jan 8, 2011 at 10:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel
      Daniel

      I’m with John on this one. If Castro was mature enough to date someone more his equal (aka someone older) he wouldn’t have gotten involved with a disturbed young man. A 65 year old doesn’t have much in common with a 20 year old. That’s a 40 year gap. If he does, then he’s disturbed as well since 20 year olds (even the smart ones) are idiots/impulsive by nature.

      He didn’t deserve this but he could have prevented it by being an adult. Instead he turned to his wallet to feel better about aging.

      And Hugh Hefner? He might as well be a pedophile.

      Jan 8, 2011 at 11:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      jeez d’ ya think you can put the prejudice and moralising aside and register something: THE AGE GAP IS NOT THE CRIME HERE!
      i used to hunt out older guys (in their late thirties/forties) when i was way more than half their age. no coercion. i was the “predator”. and it wasn’t for money (mostly). its just what did it for me. simple as.

      lets just respect that where not all the same.

      whats really offensive from some comments here is the implied notion of this being some kind of working out of karmic justice for transgressing the age gap; that such “unaturalness” inevitably results such tragedies. go on you may as well say it: he brought it on himself!

      whatever the peculiar circumstances of this case they are just that and cant be generalised. so stop it.

      Seriously, im hitting mid thirties and this ageism shit is already starting to get really pissy.

      c’mon give an old guy a hand its your christian duty ;P

      Jan 9, 2011 at 12:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • missbaby4love
      missbaby4love

      Dearest One,
      Can i get to know you? my name is miss. Mimunna pls if you are interested on making real friendship contact me here;(mine4love2@yahoo.com) for more details.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 12:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hmmm
      hmmm

      @divkid: Did you ever “hunt out” 65-year-olds back when you were 20? Kinky!!

      Jan 9, 2011 at 1:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @John: What’s truly “shallow” is an old man trying to relive his youth through the body of someone FORTY years youngers than him. Ditto for the younger guy undoubtedly seeking to take advantage of Castro’s wealth and fame. You see this far too often among straights, see Hugh Hefner as someone else pointed out. This wasn’t a relationship between 2 equals, unless you want to say that Castro was emotionally stunted and that I find to be disgusting.

      Read more: http://www.queerty.com/did-model-renato-seabra-kill-his-gay-activist-boyfriend-carlos-castro-and-cut-his-scrotum-off-20110108/#ixzz1AW60NmXE

      Well i had no idea you knew them personally. Of course you know enough to go around defining everyones relationship. You are an ignorant asshole.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 1:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WilliamG
      WilliamG

      This is awful, absolutely awful. SpiderMan the musical? Really? Terrible news.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 2:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ashton C
      Ashton C

      I hate it when people condemn the fact that he was dating someone years younger than him? What is the problem with that?? Just so you haters know My husband and I just celebrated our 15th anniversary and guess what? he’s 30 years older than me. Oh and guess what else? He is fucking amazing in and out of bed. Just because some of you let yourselves go to waste before you even turn 30 doesn’t mean everybody over 50 is a fucking ancient troll, so grow the fuck up. Hell I know my hubby can sport a boner faster than most of you half his age, asswipes… and he’s never once has needed a damn Viagra. Grow the fuck up.

      Love knows no age, douchebags do.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 3:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      A young man has been castrated, and brutally murdered, and a few MORONS in here are too stuck on stupid to get past the age gap between the victim, and alleged perp. Really??

      Jan 9, 2011 at 3:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @hmmm: no. because it’s not my thing. my point is we can’t help are “thing”.

      i do know one guy in his late 20’s into REALLY old guys. i don’t judge. if it’s not hurting anyone directly it’s no one business to object (actually the harm issue is a moot point here — were talking very OLD and i’m not sure the blood should be diverted from the primary organs!)

      i object to people parading their supposed superior moral standards and expecting us to salute. its just rude. by all means do it, but i’m gonna call you out.

      actually if it had been a very well preserved 65 dude i may have. possibly.

      ok i probably did once or twice. but not older. or by much. ok i took money for that. \\\ the sound of moral authority evaporating/// *shakes fist* curse you you made me look sleazy! anyhow 60’s not very old — they can still pass for human lol.

      by the way did you know it is rumoured some people in this world consider the whole homosex thing a bit “out there” and kinky and not altogether ideal . go figure.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 3:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dame Helga von Ornstein
      Dame Helga von Ornstein

      Looking at this kid reminds me of Andrew Cunanan, the guy who killed Versace back in the 90’s. Cunanan was a doll who was chased after by every twink-loving queen who could pay him a weekly stipend and keep him in the lap of luxury.

      The problem with these young twerps is they can’t face it when reality hits. They are no longer as cute as they think they are to the rest of the world.

      It would have only been a matter of time but I have no doubt the same would have happened to this one too. Too bad he went the way of Cunanan. But rest assured, there will be more (May-December killings) to follow.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 3:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexis
      Alexis

      Hey, to John, Ewe,

      First of all, I am not sure why such a relationship is ‘disgusting’. Anyone who’s spent time around a lot of long-term couples, gay or straight, knows that the whole institution is problematic: coupledom, that is. For a great analysis of the subject, read ‘Against Love’, by Laura Kipnis. I have seen many relationships between people of similar socioeconomic background, similar income, and similar age that seem fueled more by mutual dislike and bitterness that anything else, so-called ‘domestic gulags’ indeed. So I have a hard time passing judgement on so-called ‘sugar daddies’ and their kept boys or women. Of course, I can’t comment specifically on the relationship between Castro and Seabra, because I had never even heard of either before yesterday. Also, not sure how this could be considered a hate crime, Ewe unless the investigation ends up proving otherwise, which seems doubtful, at best.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 3:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexis
      Alexis

      @DIVKID,

      Excellent point about younger guys into older men. I have met a few. I’m 40, and I like both hot 19-year-old guys and once in a while a seriously old guy, provided he is able to perform and doesn’t look like he is going to keel over. And throw in the occasional homeless geezer for good measure, when the opportunity strikes, which is not that often.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 3:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ashton C
      Ashton C

      By the way, before you call me a gold digger, I met my husband when I was 20 years old and owne my own boutique in manhattan, he was an amazing looking motorcycle Tom of finland looking stud by night media Executive by day. I have always been into older men. We met and moved together a year late after I made sure he knew it wasn’t his money I wanted i have always had my own. Now 15 years later teh age difference has only proven to me that true love knows no age, i will be here until the day he breathes his last breath and he has proven to be the best decision i have ever made in my life. Sure i could have tried dating a boy my own age back then but you know what? that relationship would have probably lasted a week, and I would still be lurking bars for the next irresponsible dork my age. Dont judge us who chose to date men older than us. Sadly nobody pays any interest to the stories where 20 year olds kill their same age partners. My husband and i where the 35th couple legally married in MA when it became legal and the fact that both our families and all of our friends where there proud and loud to celebrate our union proves that those of you who talk crap about age difference are nothing but jealous lonely losers who will never ever really know what love is. Oh and yes, if my man passes before me I will make sure to pay it forward and find a young responsible man to love, teach, respect, inspire, and learn from just like my amazing husband did and still does for me.

      I don’t know about you guys but when I am in my husband’s arms i feel like nothing in the world can ever hurt me, and so does he. I’ll die for him and he would do the same.

      So please, before you judge, take a minute to ask yourself if you really know what love is, or better yet, are you really loved right now?.

      I am! so suck it!

      Jan 9, 2011 at 3:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Alexis: you sir are a shameless libertine. the homeless geezer was a particurlarly nice touch. classy like. but i kinda know what you mean, and if hes got a dog on a string its a xtra big TICK lol.

      dont ‘cha just looove that ole class system. see the downturn isnt all bad ; )

      Jan 9, 2011 at 4:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hmmm
      hmmm

      @Ashton C: So what *is* your age difference?

      Jan 9, 2011 at 4:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ashton C
      Ashton C

      One more thing, when I met my husband he was two years into getting over losing his life partner of 20 years to cancer. His stories of how he cared for him, changed his soiled sheets, hand fed him, consoled him and ultimately held his hand as his let out his last breath, and the stories of how he fought hospital personnel just to make sure his Bobby was treated with the utmost respect at the end, sealed the deal for me. He wasn’t an older man to me, he was a super hero.

      To love someone who had gone through that much pain, and to be able to give him joy for the rest of his life, almost as a thank you from his lost love, is what drives me to forever love and respect him.

      Sure my man is not a 100lb ripped stud anymore, but you know what? He just grows more beautiful each day.

      We have a sign over our bedroom doorway that reads: “always kiss me goodnight”, and you better believe that we do more than that.

      Please stop the ageism, is just as bad as homophobia.

      Those of you who trash us for dating older men are no better than the bullies that drive kids to suicide. 15 years later and people still call him my sugar daddy. It hurts, and you guys here trashing old/young relationship really need to stop the hate. NOH8! N08!!

      I thought being gay gave us permission to fall in love with whomever made our hearts skip a beat.

      Please think before you post.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 4:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ashton C
      Ashton C

      @divkid: 32 years.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 4:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hmmm
      hmmm

      @divkid: My guess: If these old bachelors (Hefner, Castro, etc) woke up tomorrow with median US wealth & salary, their demand among young folk would drop by 90%!

      (We’d still have a few young’uns who are really in it for the intimacy, and for whom riches don’t have anything to do with it; maybe your friend is in this, probably rare, group. Ashton C seems to be in this group….)

      Jan 9, 2011 at 4:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ashton C
      Ashton C

      @John: Great to see that as a gay man you have substituted homophobia with ageism. I guess unhappy lonely bastards can always find something else to be bigoted about. I guess when you are unhappy you can always rely on hating on others just to make that lonely bed feel warmer.

      You find young/old relationships “disgusting”? I guess you never heard of people calling men to men relationships “disgusting” before.

      Listen bud, I may not understand the fact that you only get off sniffing dirty socks and jerking off to old JCPenney’s catalogs while shoving your foot in your mouth, but I don’t consider you disgusting. I actually think of you as delightfully unique human being who while I wouldn’t mind sharing a cup of tea with, I sure will make sure it wasn’t strained through that pair of old socks you keep in your desk drawer.

      Stop being so gosh darn judgmental. Isn’t that what we hate about homophobes?

      By the way I have been legally married to an amazing man 32 years my senior. How long have you been married?

      I thought so.

      The only reason you crap on men who date older men and vice
      versa is because you just cant hit the gym long enough to find a man your age to actually take a look at you.

      Trust me, the jealousy coats your posts like butter on a steamed lobster. Skip the butter and you may get lucky before you die.

      Then again those sucks you sniff on may be coated in butter , and God knows a butter addiction is the worse one to get over.

      Good luck hater.

      PS: how long have you been happily married again?

      LOL

      Jan 9, 2011 at 5:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Ashton C: you sound very fortunate to have found each over. some people will fuck their way back-to-front through grindr but will never know the love and commitment you share together. you are blessed.
      it puts into relief the typical cynical b.s from these fuckwits.

      you can count on it when they get old they’ll soon reassess their strict age codes and body standards or demand special pleading.

      from my teens i always fancied older guys (around 40ish). maybe its the gravitas…whatever; and never really bothered with other teens. now im mid 30’s i worry about what i’ll do when i rule myself out of my own limit. i guess the moral is to keep your mind and heart //dont say ass\\ open.

      weirdly its only now im starting to see the point of twinkies.but their still a bit meh…give me a bit of gerald butler any day with or without breast plate ; P

      Jan 9, 2011 at 5:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      no. 43 edit: gerard (but he’s always gerry to me)

      Jan 9, 2011 at 5:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Davey Wavey's Vagina Monologue
      Davey Wavey's Vagina Monologue

      Sugar Daddy’s live in whore killed him. I guess Sugar Baby got cut off and decided to cut Daddy.

      You reap what you sow I guess.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 5:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ashton C
      Ashton C

      @divkid: You are doing OK my man. Just keep being yourself and lat that huge heart of yours lead you to happiness. By the way, Gerald is way yummmy nummy! But i still prffer my hubby. LOL Maybe in another life. But only if Im 19 and he’s 45. lol

      Jan 9, 2011 at 5:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @hmmm: what? some might only be with heff for the money? really!? ya think?

      but you’re doing it a massive disservice to underestimate the power of money or rather the status it confers. it really just does make people or even things appear more attractive to us then how they would otherwise appear.

      high status(ness) has real psycho-sexual physiological effects — its hard wired into us; as demonstrated by the fact i just ordered a criminally expensive shirt with a “label” while i know for almost damn certain its made in the same sweat shop with the same materials by the same 10 yr old. i did this because: 1) im stupid. 2) i thought it would “say” hey im a high status label kinda guy not like that other no label loser guy so please let me mingle my dna with your dna and create a new more superior shirt consumer..oh, wait your another guy!? hows this gonna work…shit, the Big Guy really didn’t think this one through did he!

      so yes it’s unlikely (not impossible) heff would be getting any if he were a typical old geezer pissing himself in an old folks home. because though ostensibly the same old coffin dodger, his status-fuck credit would be entirely etiolated.

      money makes less physically desirable rich or powerful old guys genuinely more desirable.

      whereas money or low status is barely an issue in the fuckability of the young because youth and health is its own high commodity value.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 6:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      oh dear, that made me look far more cynical than i intended.

      WARNING: i’m not really an evolutionary pychologist. no shit you say?

      Jan 9, 2011 at 6:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jo
      jo

      @skbnwinters: heterosexual violence is horrible! men kill their women alot. what rock are you living under that makes gay life so much worse. heterosexual life can be filled with horrors.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 7:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @jo: jo i think she’s only allowed out for an hour a day. but she’s all quite now. i think the nurse will have been around with the trolley….ahh… god love her…it’s a shame.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 7:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      typo again!! damn it:

      but she’s quiet now.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 7:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dina
      Dina

      It’s always wrong to hate, but it’s never wrong to love. Why should age matter? Plenty of younger men are into older guys. As long as it is consensual and legal, we should never judge a relationship.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 7:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Alexis: dude, how “seriously old” do you go?

      and the homeless guys how often do you “throw him in”? how often do you get the opportunity to “strike”?

      do you have an excessively high electricity bill? a lot refrigerators?

      \o/ lol.

      actually you sound quite hot in an a-moral adventurous kinda way.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 7:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @ewe: So what you are saying is that you get to be as judgmental as you like, but no one else can be unless they agree with you? I don’t think so. I know as much about their relationship as you do about me. You seem to know enough about me to judge me as an “ignorant asshole” so it shouldn’t be surprising that I know enough about them to find a 40-year age gap to be disgusting. You’re entitled to your view about me and so am I about their relationship. The difference here though is I could care less what your view is about me but you are all worked up about mine on their relationship. Amusing.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @Ashton C: Let’s see: “ageism”, “unhappy lonely bastards”, “bigoted”, “hating”, “cant hit the gym long enough to find a man your age to actually take a look at you”, “jealousy”. and of course “hater”.

      What were you saying about judging others you don’t know, Ashton?

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @John:you airing your personal dislikes what does it add? what can we learn? and vacuous moral posturing wont cut it. you’ll know of course just such an approach is what constitutes the boo-hurrah theory or emotivism: it’s signifying nothing above your personal gut feeling or knee jerk reaction. as presumably a same sex attracted man this line of argument is not a friend to you.

      anyhow you could have furnished that pearl of wisdom in one line of one comment. we would have got the message: JOHN thinks this is naughty: boo! end of. no need to reiterate.

      unless you had had other motives — namely to cause offence; or to stamp your little tippy toes and say look at me, look at me, iii waaant attention.. nooow… goo goo…

      if of course you outlined why it’s wrong, whether it’s only wrong for you or whether you would universalise this wrongness; and in all cases? no grey areas? and perhaps you might explain what you mean by wrong. what constitutes this wrongness other than you don’t like it.

      then, we have a discussion. and less heat more light.

      this is not beyond you little fella. c,mon jnr step up. that-a boy!

      regards.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 9:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @john: ok so i see you used the word “disgusting” and not “wrong” which only more firmly establishes the point that your objection is rooted in emotive unreason and therefore has no ground in logic.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 10:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lucius Vorenus
      Lucius Vorenus

      Guys, stop with this bull. It is clear from the nature of the crime that this was NOT a love affair. It was a BUSINESS TRANSACTION that had a very bad ending. How can’t you see this? Are you all blind?

      Jan 9, 2011 at 10:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Lucius Vorenus: yep, i don’t think many of us are under the illusion in this particular case it’s anything other than business, or at least for one of them.

      but some wanted to use this incident as an excuse to denigrate other peoples life choices and relationships with ignorant lazy generalisations.

      but that said we should keep an open mind. and if he do it did it he may have been mentally ill. please god they dont play the gay panic defence card. Judging by the hostility at the idea of an older guy/young guy from this thread, that tactic might well fly effortlessly.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 11:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      edit:…and if he did do it…

      Jan 9, 2011 at 11:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jonathan
      Jonathan

      @Ashton C: A beautiful story and a crucial claim for love! Good for you both.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 12:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hmmm
      hmmm

      @Ashton C: Thank you for sharing your story! The relationship you have with your husband is really inspiring and if I could delete my “most young’uns are in it for the money” argument above (#41), I would, because I think it creates divisiveness and poisons the dialogue.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 1:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexis
      Alexis

      @DIVKID,

      To be honest, I’m not such a libertine these days. It was more like a few years ago. When I am home in Montreal, I’m pretty sedate, but when I travel, I get a little adventurous. The oldest guy that I know of was 76, but I know I’ve gone older. It’s just that sometimes it’s rude to ask “hey, dude, how old are you, by the way?” One hot memory: I would see the 76-year-old guy at a bathhouse near my place, and I remember once watching 2 guys in their 30s orally service him while he stood on a bench. Then, once they were done, they had to help him down. I loved the paradox of it. Dominant granddaddy who is probably arthritic and can’t get down without help. As for the homeless guys, it’s happened maybe only 3 or 4 times in my life, in a park, sauna or porn cinema. It’s always strange to see them begging on the street a few days or weeks later. It’s also fun to tell the person I’m going for coffee or a walk with: “See the one-legged guy in the wheelchair selling pencils? I did him a few months ago”.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 1:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @divkid: I gave my view just like everyone else who posts on blogs. You obviously disagree. Good for you but your disagreement with my view or the opprobrium from others here demonstrating how not to be “judgmental” doesn’t change my mind. Next topic please…

      Jan 9, 2011 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Alexis: rofl man your life is lke a one man john waters film! YOU HAVE NO SHAME! lovin it.

      but i do suddenly feel the urge to shower. anyone else feel the need to disinfect their computers lol ; )

      Jan 9, 2011 at 2:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @John: dont sweat it bro. oh man i’d love you to meet up with john and his friends he’d soon have you broadening your,ahem, horizons…

      just make sure you’ve had all your shots first!.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 2:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @divkid: yes i meant alexis

      Jan 9, 2011 at 2:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Alexis:you only get sexually adventurous when you go a-travlin’.

      then for the love of god people don’t let this man travel!

      canada are you listening! usa you need a better armed border up there! no one is safe from tthe depradations of this man. lock up your sons, daughters, grandpappy, and graphite peddling monopeds! … and you can run and tell dat homeboy!

      Jan 9, 2011 at 2:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dina
      Dina

      This isn’t a gay issue. This is an issue about ageism. Some believe after a certain age, men and women should be sexless and devote themselves to knitting and watching re-runs of “Nash Bridges”. Yet, if yiu choose to have a romantic life or be sexual, you’re a pervert.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 2:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Dina: no, respectfully this is properly speaking an issue about a murder; lest we forget, a real man died horribly at the hands of another, affording us an opportunity to wheel out are own particular hobby horse.

      but your quite right this whole thing certainly touches upon the issue of ageism in this case as it appertains to main stream gay male consumerist culture. and yes it goes wider still.

      and i think it highlights the failure of a moral imagination: the ability to think your way into anothers position… how it might feel one day to be that old and disregarded guy — disregarded because he’s lost his youth and beauty and so market value. and the inability or unwillingness to imagine how it might feel to be old whilst still having desires. without seeing this as somehow sinister.

      people have a lifelong need to feel valued and cherished which is particularly problematic in an age and image obsessed culture wherein your currency can be viewed as debased, lost its face value.

      the utter madness is we don’t see its in all our interests to change this since this will be all our fates. to be that old guy sitting alone in the bar tolerated perhaps, or maybe despised, or at best patronised.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 4:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charlie
      Charlie

      How horrifyingly tragic. I’d rather not speculate on “why” this happened and just say that it is so sorrowful that it can and did happen.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 7:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • yellowKid
      yellowKid

      @John: John, i agree w u opinion. Funny how jumped on you for merely expressing your opinion. Noone says that old people shouldnt have sex. just do it w someone closer to your own age… indeed its disgusting.. enough said.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 7:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      John #64 – yes you can give your opinion and I’ve been called every name in the book by EWE, so I know what that is like. He has no right to name call, you can have an opinion. But I do think that one of the basic ideas about being Gay is that we choose who we love, just like straights do. (and should be given all the legal advantages of marriage etc.) Others judge our choices all the time, so it would be nice if Gay people would be kinder to each other and respect that. You know even if it DOES turn out older guy was a sugar daddy, isn’t that still those two adults’ choice to make? I think that is why you’re catching it.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ogre Magi
      Ogre Magi

      Yall is some mean fagots@skbnwinters: So, you were a fag hag and now you are a troll!

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @yellowKid: dumbass faggot, your disguting coz of your faggotry – and faggotry is disgusting coz it’s, like, what faggots do. and faggots are disgusting because their faggots who do disgusting faggot things disgustingly. and you wanna know faggot why these faggot things you do , fag , are so disgustingly faggy, hey? well i’ll tell ya faggot boy: because their faggy disgustingness is so .. eh…disgus… oh, never mind…

      by the way you. are. a. fag.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Ogre Magi: yeah thats pretty treacherous of her. she must have had some pretty negative experiences with us. i say we try to win her round again maybe send her on a big gay nite out with… jason — he’s a one with the charm for the ladies. and maybe he could read her some of his monographs thats bound to win her over. \o/

      Jan 9, 2011 at 8:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @yellowKid: The irony here is that in gay years as a man in my 40s I AM old, even though I’m just middle-aged in real years. So if I had a problem with older men having sex, well I guess I’d have a problem with sex in general or something. However this wasn’t about older men having sex, something trust me doesn’t bother me in the slightest, but instead about a 40 year age difference between these. I have nieces and nephews that are in their 20s and find the extreme age gap here to be exploitive and disgusting. Yes some younger men can be physically attractive and yes this society has a big problem with only valuing youth, none of which is relevant here. Perhaps Castro & Seabra were the exception, but I seriously doubt it and given the tragic fate of the former by the alleged hand of the latter something was definitely screwed up in their relationship.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 9:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @Jaroslaw: I have known couples with more than 10 year age difference. It wasn’t enough of a difference that they were not able to connect and relate to one another. Yet it wasn’t a 40 year difference as in this story or a nearly 60 difference as with Hefner and his latest trophy wife. I’m not advocating laws to discriminate or ban such practices and recognize that both parties in these relationships are consenting adults. So what? That doesn’t change the fact that I find this to be disgusting. Just as everything that’s legal isn’t necessary moral, and vice versa, ditto when you want to substitute “consenting” for “legal”.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 9:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @John: Nice to have the person who possesses all knowledge about relationships back with us spreading more ignorance.

      Maybe you can explain to the group why something that is none of your business is disgusting to you. Why it bothers you at all. Why your own life is so perfect you can dump on others who make different choices than you would.

      If you had something valuable or even humorous to say that would be one thing. Instead your point is ” ewwwww that’s icky.’

      Grow up.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 9:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexis
      Alexis

      @DIVKID,

      Actually, I share a birthday with John Waters, but I was born in 1970, he in 1946 or 47, and I am a fan. I have my limits: no dogshit for me, ever!! Also, I am now visiting Berlin, and let me tell you, I feel like a total amateur here, where nearly every gay bar has a darkroom, and sex clubs have theme nights for every kink imaginable.

      But seriously, on the topic of ageism and gay body fascism, it is there of course, but sometimes I feel that gays get more flak for it than the culture in general. My personal experience, as a bear, is that I’m always surprised by younger guys that absolutely fetishize my belly, something I do nothing but eat to maintain. One of them actually asked what I had to do to get such a wonderful gut. And these are often 20-something model-thin hipster boys. However, I’m not completely deluded: I know I get less attention than I did when I was 26 and 50 lbs. lighter, and that’s OK. Most of us have our moment in the sun, and then it’s someone else’s turn. Besides, there’s always going to be some hot young thing who will completely surprise you by coming on to you.

      Jan 9, 2011 at 11:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexis
      Alexis

      @John,

      I don’t want to attack you personally. i disagree with most of what you say, but you have a right to say it. But how do you know that these couples with a ten-year age gap have trouble communicating BECAUSE of the age gap? I know many couples who have trouble communicating, period. And maybe the entire idea that couples must communicate everything is also flawed. They should probably be able to get along and listen to each other, but some of the most functional couples I’ve known were not at all joined at the hip. They had some basic stuff in common, but seemed to still exist as individuals. It’s interesting here in Germany that many of the gay men I meet are quite public about being in open relationships, something that would probably save a lot of straight marriages, too. Well, at least Shirley MacLaine finally admitted her marriage was open, but only when she had nothing to lose. Oh, and I forgot about Mo’Nique, of course, who took a real risk by admitting it. But I digress…

      Jan 9, 2011 at 11:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • southpaugh
      southpaugh

      I’m 57 and have 18 & 19 year olds literally chasing me, and it’s not because of money because I don’t have any. I have 40, 50 & 60 year olds plying their wiles, doing their best to charm me as well. Some of them I respond to, and others, I don’t. It’s about chemistry, interests and a fluttery connection; a combination of physical and intellectual attraction. I’ve gotten alot of flack for age differnces, and one boyfriend thirty-three years my junior couldn’t take the pressure; it ruined our relationship. Happily, with most of my positive encounters, flirtations and connections, it isn’t up to anybody else what goes on in my head, my loins or my bedroom. The likes of John and yellowkid have issues, but that’s their problem. I’d guess they do enough to make themselves miserable in their own special way, so I don’t have to do anything to repay their First Amendment kindness even were I so inclined. It’s unfortunate people find being anonymously ugly to others fulfilling or compelling or whatever gratification drives their behavior. That’s the most telling aspect of similar posts on any thread.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 12:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @John: No, you are wrong again. I don’t care if you are ignorant just because i brought it to your attention.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 12:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @Alexis: No.34. I have no idea why you are addressing me. You read somethin wrong.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 12:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexis
      Alexis

      @Ewe:
      Just your first comment about it sounding like a hate crime. Unless we learn that the killing was premeditated and that Seabro was some sort of virulent homophobe who targeted Castro, or that there was some sort of gay panic involved, then it wouldn’t really count as a hate crime. (see end of my comment, no. 34). But don’t worry, my main beef was with comments about how ‘disgusting’ or ‘inappropriate’ the relationship was.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 12:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @Alexis: If a gay person cuts your balls off, it may be a hate crime even if both parties are gay. But it may also turn out that the young kid is only gay for pay. I have absolutely no problem with age differences. I have had many heated discussions with people about whether a minor forced to prostitute with a different john every night and live on the streets would be better served if he met someone in NAMBLA that sheltered, fed and educated him. I see one being better than the other but some just don’t. No worries though, these are all just topics of discussion.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 1:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Alexis: alexis you grubby ole’ bear you. hope you’re managing to get ya'; paws inside some big german picnic baskets. i hear ze sausage ze packin’ iz wunderbar. ya?

      my wise ursine friend tell me are you really a bear or just cant be arsed holding stomach in? do you have to do something to qualify for the bear permit? like DO stuff ? in the woods? manly stuff? can any slightly paunchy gay dude who owns a lumberjack shirt set up as a bear. doesn’t seem right if so.

      are you still allowed to listen to judy at carnagie hall? is there a “gay stuff” amnesty: do you have to hand stuff in? things with sequins? abercrombie and fitch things? bea arthur commemorative edition crochet dildo bag? tinted moisturiser?

      has it a unique sexual sub-culture of its own? (it’s not for any research i AM just a pervert) i ask because the only bear i know about is andrew sullivan. so there must be something twisted and deviant about y’all. please spill even if you have to make stuff up!

      excuse naivety. i live on a welsh mountain. we’re are only starting to get word about… a hanky code? and frankly i don’t know if theres gonna be one to signify sheep preference.

      now Etiquette dictates i bring this post back on topic.

      …his scrotum! ugh…jesus,..you don’t even want to imagine the horror that might visit on your shag pile. i hope that chamber maid is gettin’ double time for cleaning that room.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 6:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @ewe: Why? Because you say so? Ok. Feel better? Works for you no doubt but I don’t find your assertion of my supposed wrongness very convincing. This relationship is still disgusting.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @justiceontherocks: Really? One of those who reserves for themselves the right to judge others as he sees fits, yet excoriates everyone else for “judging”, is calling me out for being a big bad meanie? Waah. Quit being a hypocrite. The world doesn’t revolve around you and your tiny mind. There are millions of people who vehemently disagree with you, me and everyone else. I find this to be disgusting and you disagree with that view. So what? I’m supposed to change my mind because OMG! Some anonymous guy(?) online thinks I’m soooo wrong, which has just shattered my world?!?

      I don’t think so.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @Alexis: Actually I said that despite the 10+ year age gap the couple I know gets along just fine. That’s not much but a 40 or nearly 60 year difference? Give me a break. There are always exceptions but that’s just exploitive and disgusting.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @southpaugh: Exactly. I can think your cavorting with guys 30-40 years your junior to be disgusting and you can think I enjoy being miserable or whatever.

      And the world still goes ’round and ’round.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 10:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @John: I didn’t judge anyone; merely pointed out that you did, and about something that was none of your business.

      You come across as jealous (can’t get the younger guys you want anymore, perhaps??). Your posts are tedious. And you aren’t worth another second of my time.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 11:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @justiceontherocks: The irony is you miss the judgment in the very post you swear up and down you haven’t done. Since I don’t agree with you, why of course it must be because I’m “jealous”.

      Gee, you “got” me.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 12:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      John – Ok I tried to be nice. What exactly do you find about a large age difference disgusting? Why MUST a large age diffrerence be exploitive? You are judging, have an opinion, fine, already said that, but it really doesn’t add much to the discussion. That was Carlos & Renata’s choice as adults. Why it bothers you is beyond me. On another post I questioned why a 40 plus did something with a 15 year old. Very different – THAT is possibly (or even probably) taking advantage of a minor. It is well accepted that minors don’t have the thought processes and learning experiences that come with age. In addition, the 40 plus year old person could have done the same transaction with some of her adult male friends. Why she didn’t was never addressed. YOU on the other hand personally find the age gap disgusting and I don’t even know why.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JV
      JV

      Let us not bicker over the Age issue. That is truly not a concern in this case. (Yet it is making police and investigators wonder why a 20 year old model is with a 65 year old journalist.) Why? Who knows. Were they dating, was he an escort of some sort, maybe they were just friends? We can speculate until kingdom come. We won’t know until we hear from the NYPD what Seabra said. According to Seabra’s mother he is straight and that she has never heard such a thing. At the same time, Mr. Seabra admitted to the police ‘He said he did it to get rid of Castro’s homosexual demons,’- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1345832/Male-model-Renato-Seabra-killed-journalist-cure-homosexuality.html#ixzz1AfRIp6xo

      From this article, It seems as though Mr.Seabra’s intention was to use Mr.Castro for money, fame and probably a boost to his modeling career. In any event, this is still truly tragic. As a Portuguese descendant, I’m truly saddened by this loss. But as seen in the Versace Murder, Young guys will do anything for power, money and a shot at fame.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexis
      Alexis

      @DIVKID: I am more a bear by default. I am chubby, hairy, bearded and balding with a Mediterranean appearance. I don’t take it too seriously, and don’t own any flannel shirts, and haven’t been camping since I was maybe 15. I definitely have my queeny side, too, but I often meet guys who tell me they appreciate my ‘masculinity’, and then they go on to denigrate effeminate men. I always tell them, ‘you’ve never seen me throw a ball’. I was definitely teased for being a girly boy when I was young, so I feel it would be a betrayal of my younger self to buy into all of that. I remember my American grandfather, a huge baseball fan, asking me when I was 13 if I knew who Joe DiMaggio was. I said yes, he was Marilyn Monroe’s first husband. He was outraged. “Marilyn Monroe’s husband?! He was the greatest ballplayer that ever lived!”. And if there’s a bear permit, I sure don’t have one. But I do appreciate many aspects of bear culture. As for a sexual subculture of its own, guess there must be, but I’m generally not into other bears. I know there are internal debates and controversies, such as whether or not muscle bears are really bears. I have a friend who was so furious when he saw that the image illustrating an iphone bear app was a muscle bear that he actually contacted Apple to complain. But I can see where he’s coming from, resenting the mainstreaming of a specific body type usually associated with chubbiness, and not with a gym membership.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 5:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #96 well said. It took me a long time to understand what you put into a couple short paragraphs. Then again, who would I discuss it with prior to the internet and living in the country with no Gay community center? I still prefer the masculine but I don’t cringe anymore when a sissy boy comes around. Hey, it takes a lot more guts to sashay around and talk the way they do than to “fit in”. Really.

      Jan 10, 2011 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Alexis:genius. you transformed my trivial silliness into insightful gold. you sound just perfect as you are. don’t change. just watch cholesterol.

      Jan 11, 2011 at 4:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      Back in the day I was one of the boy’s on Selma ave, until we moved over to Santa Monica and Gower, and I did east 55th in NYC. I went with people because they had money and stuff.They used me, and I used them it was a nasty life. But sometimes

      they’d forget what we were actually doing ! I’d have guys say, I’ll get you something to eat, I’ll give you a place to sleep ( in their beds ) you’re going to have sex, but I’m not going to give you cash, and you have to leave early in the morning..
      I can imagine fighting with the ugly old wart hog over money, because he’d deluded himself into thinking it was love all the time knowing it wasn’t but forcing it anyway.

      Just like I remember the time, a trick tried to force me to suck his ugly wrinkly old dick to get something to eat. I wanted to kill him ! Instead I killed his aquarium ! Threw a ketchup bottle right through his room sized fish-bowl.

      I was young , stupid, homeless and hungry…what I needed was guidance not exploitation. No I wasn’t very bright just really good looking. So this kid will spend the rest of his life in Attica, he’ll be very popular, he’ll even learn English all because some dirty old man ( whom by all acounts from people on the scene in Portugal, he was a nasty self centered old queen ) wanted to toss his weight and wallet around.

      Did he deserve to die like that ? NO, NO, and NO but stupid people can’t expect to live long either. Nothing wrong with buying it, just be aware you’re paying for it, and all that takes is a look into the mirror.

      Can you imagine what it’s like to be that beautiful in NYC tied to an old guy who won’t understand that you need to be free, and can you imagine how stupid you’d have to be to be in NYC in the first place with that old man, what a mess ! Two lives lost over nothing.

      I was in that situation, they’ll wine you dine you, give you enough money to go to the store for a pack of cigarettes, and you have to account for every step you take and then some. But as dumb as I was I was smart enough to know that I’d seen the Tombs, I didn’t want to see Attica.

      I look forward to the day when elder gay guys become mentors and and guides.

      Jan 11, 2011 at 5:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Mike: my friend this is my second draft because on reflection it didn’t sit well with my conscience to attack you. you seem genuinely damaged by your experiences and still very angry. they still sound so fresh i don’t think you’ve yet gained enough distance and perspective to view this issue dispassionately and with the fairness it deserves. (i don’t mean this dude and his ho, this is clearly a train wreck)

      we can agree: exploitation is wrong. from anyone. at any age. but don’t discount the possibility that some such relationships could, though rare, be based on higher motives.

      and some relationships based on mutual exploitation could be equally beneficial. if both parties are of a sound mind to contract such an arrangement . it just takes honesty. which you didn’t find.

      the world is more complex and sexual desire more unruly than we will ever be able to figure out. in short keep an open mind. its hard i know.

      and keep away from all things aquatic. seriously that disturbed me more than that guy losing his nuts. poor fish. shame on you.

      peace buddy

      p.s. i was homeless too and similarly exploited, and abused while i was in care . you have to let go. actually, no, you don’t *have* to . but it helps.

      Jan 11, 2011 at 11:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      DIVKID – I’m glad you reflected- but please re-read Mike’s post. He said he WAS young and stupid. He said Carlos did not deserve to die that way (NO NO NO he said) but it is realistic to say “stupid people can’t expect to live long either.” (when you make choices to be prostitute or to deal with them). Except for his very last statement that he hopes one day older guys will mentor younger guys, I think he has let it go already. And Mike, if you’re reading – some older guys do that. Probably not as many as you’d like….but some.

      Jan 11, 2011 at 12:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @Jaroslaw:you may be right. but all his examples were based on exploitative money transactions (or with-holding thereof). but reading ashton c’s post about his loving committed relationship with a 35yr gap (only 5 less than this murdered guy). it’s clear michael’s is is not nearly the whole story. i felt this post added to the cumulative effect of those attacks which i felt were dishonouring ashtons’ and others experience. if in the process of defending their position i have been unfair to Michael it wasn’t my intention. and is to be regretted.

      i guess my argument is really with the johns of this world who cant see the parallel in how some straight men, unable comprehend our homosexual attraction therefore go on to assert that our sexuality is wrong and disgusting, mistaking subjectivity for objective truth merely coz it accords with their gut reaction or disgust thresh-hold; which is not fixed and is mutable and therefore not good yardstick for assessing morality.

      fwiw i don’t understand the attraction of big age gaps either or for that matter many other practices, fetishes, rituals etc. but im just fine that other people do. and that they’ve got someone to share it with. and i don’t have a pathological compulsion to trumpet my disapproval or disgust about it.
      the world would be much better, and no one would lose face, if we just said your interests/desires/beliefs/religion is not for me buddy, but fine if it works for you — be happy.

      and thats what we’re winning from progressive ways of thinking. think of our are straight allies who have expanded their hearts minds to try to encompass something they cant even directly experience namely same sex desire. that ability is achieved through the process of empathy, which is diametrically opposed to this reactionary language of disgust.which has not been a friend to us. so why would any gay use it?

      btw i like that you came to his defence. that was caring of you. i hope you’ll come to my defence so ably at some point!

      Jan 11, 2011 at 4:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Carla
      Carla

      @Raquel:

      LOL He was hated for most of the people in Portugal (Carlos Castro). He was also considered a minor columnist. He was always appearing in lousy tv shows speaking about famous people private lives. Looking at his face I can´t even consider him a good person. He must have done something very bad. That kid must have been desperate. I´m not defending him or saying what he did was correct, but we don´t know the 2 sides of this story. Maybe they really weren´t a couple, maybe the kid always said he was hetero, maybe Carlos Castro said it was ok and that he just wanted to help. It´s not unsual that 2 men share the same room. Carlos Castro wasn´t rich… so, let´s just imagine that CC started to fail with is word and did something very bad inside that room… let´s not forget the kid is only 21… so, mr. Carlos Castro should be more responsible and should also be much more mature than this kid. He wasn´t such a Victim in this whole story…

      Jan 12, 2011 at 4:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #103 Divkid – of course I will come to your defense if I think someone is really unfair to you! I will speak even more clearly – Mike readily admits what he did previously was wrong and he is, to me, speaking most definitely in the past tense. He used to be short tempered; he used to do these things. He changed his ways because he did NOT want to end up in prison. If he really didn’t tell the whole story, I don’t know how you or anyone else would know this. But I get the general intentions of your post.

      Regarding your comment on straight men’s thoughts of us – well, luckily at this point in history – we don’t have to care at all. Another part of the problem may be (and I’m only guessing) it took us a long time to figure out ourselves we weren’t “sinners.” How could we older guys especially – that is all we heard was the voice of religion, backed up by the law, that we were dirty and immoral. Ultimately we can toss it right back in their faces, not in a mean way, but just to say hey look at the facts. Lots of children are born out of wedlock, lots of straights go to prostitutes or divorce. There is no reason for all this disgust. Straight people are far far from angels. Live and let live. Freedom of choice for all, not just for some.

      Jan 12, 2011 at 2:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      So far, I read nothing better yet on this story than very intelligent “Fiancée-ing Boys” by Michael Kerjman in Instablogs:
      http://mkwrk2.instablogs.com/entry/fiance-ing-boys/

      Jan 12, 2011 at 5:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexis
      Alexis

      @DIVKID: Yeah, the cholesterol. It’s Ok, but borderline at the moment. It’s tough to reconcile my bearishness with health issues sometimes. I am in OK shape, but of course if I lost 25 lbs I would be in better shape. I really notice the extra weight when I have to walk up a hill, for instance. I remember visiting Paris with my father a few years ago. He was 30 years older than me,, but in much better shape. I remember going for long walks with him and having to tell him to slow down once in a while so I could sit on a bench and rest my tired feet. Talk about role reversal. Also liked your comment about how even exploitative relationships are not necessarily unhealthy in all cases. Quite true. If neither party deludes himself, and boundaries are clearly defined, maybe they can work well.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 9:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fred
      Fred

      The interview given before a Lisbon TV network on Thursday morning by Mario Costa .. a private detective employed by Castro is of relevance. In this interview, Costa, said aht although for the last month, Castro and Seabra travelled and slept at various hotels, Castro had confided taht they had no sex … and that he was taking Seabra to NY for sex. In the same interview, Costa stated taht Castro paid Costa to make reports on everyone Castro had contacts with, in order to manipulate or fight those who did not like him …and even went on to say taht Castro has many relationships, but could not maintain any … but was determined to keep Seabra because of his youth. On a final note, Costa also said that Castro who was a nice man .. was also the type of man who, if he did not get waht he wanted, shouted at people and used the reports to apply pressure and blackmail. There is more than meets the eye in this tragic story.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 12:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fred
      Fred

      The interview given before a Lisbon TV network on Thursday morning by Mario Costa .. a private detective employed by Castro is of relevance. In this interview, Costa, said that although for the last month, Castro and Seabra travelled and slept at various hotels, Castro had confided that they had no sex … and that he was taking Seabra to NY for sex. In the same interview, Costa stated that Castro paid Costa to make reports on everyone Castro had contacts with, in order to manipulate or fight those who did not like him …and even went on to say that Castro has many relationships, but could not maintain any … but was determined to keep Seabra because of his youth. On a final note, Costa also said that Castro who was a nice man …. And was also the type of man who, if he did not get what he wanted, shouted at people and used the reports to apply pressure and blackmail. There is more than meets the eye in this tragic story.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 12:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Carla
      Carla

      @Fred:

      Hi, Fred. Do you have any link to that information? I´m portuguese and I never heard or read such thing.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 12:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fred
      fred

      @Carla: Unfortunately I was in a restaurant and took no notice of the TV network … but it was in a talk show every morning given by SIC or TVi … the interview took place between 12:00 and 12:40 a.m. in the talk show

      Jan 14, 2011 at 12:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Carla
      Carla

      In that case I assume you´re portuguese, that´s it?

      What I heard that detective say was that CC used his services for several times in the past. When some relationship ended in a less pacific way he asked him to investigate the “boy” in question, in order he could feel more safe. When he was in New York apparently he called this detective and said “When I arrive in Portugal we have to talk urgently”. The detective thinks he was going to ask him the same he had asked other times before: to investigate Renato Seabra (so, he assumes that CC wasn´t comfortable with RS). That´s the only thing I heard from that detective.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 12:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fred
      fred

      I saw that interview also … small interview that appeared on SIC TV last Monday night … (2 to 4 minutes) during night News broadcast …. I am talking of an interview of 40 minutes in a morning talk show … where the detective said every relationship was investigated.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 12:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fred
      fred

      I am South African by birth born of Portuguese parents. I was a jurist and Commissioner of Oaths of the High Court (South Africa.

      Of course crime must never be excuse for any attitude. I say there might be attenuating circumstances and that CC might not be the saint and martyr many make out him to have been. Regarding your comments, I saw that small interview which appeared last Monday night on a local Portuguese TV during the news broadcast. Yes, i agree with you. Costa did say that. I am referring to the talk show interview of yesterday morning which was 40 minutes and where Costa gave more insight into the character of CC.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 1:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Carla
      Carla

      Ah, ok. That´s new to me.
      I´m not saying I don´t believe you. I Believe! What I don´t understand is why it wasn´t reported anywhere in the internet… strange..

      Jan 14, 2011 at 1:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fred
      Fred

      Hi Carla,

      I do nt know whether you live in Portugal.
      Yesterday (13 Jan.) … two local TV networks had chat shows about CC … today (14 Jan.) … RTP 1 and TVi had further chat shows … interviewing people who knew CC. There is a reasonable explanation why what Costa said at the talk show was not reported on any news. Simple. Costa was not referring to the crime per se … but was merely defining / describing CC as he knew him. Can you imagine how many people have appeared on these chat shows saying they knew CC … these character references of various people who allege they new CC … does not warrant NEWS headlines.
      Best Regards

      Jan 14, 2011 at 1:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Carla
      Carla

      @Fred: Yes, I live. But I haven´t seen much tv these days. I read news mostly in the internet. But apparently he gave some important informations. He said CC assured they had no sex and that he pretended to have sex with him in NY. This might be important to the case.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 1:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fred
      Fred

      Hello Carla,

      I have to agree totally with you. There has been so many chat shows in the morning, … that many people do not see them, because they are at work. I am retired and happened to see it at lunch time by pure chance. I hope Renato´s family saw it and hope they understand how important that interview can be. What is sad is that a man is dead, a young life has been destroyed … not to forget the lives of the families that have been destroyed and are at pain. Costa also said that the December 2010 issue of Penthouse had an article attacking the character of CC. Costa even admitted that before CC conducted interviews, Costa acted as CC´s cover face and interviewed the persons first to give information to CC before same conducted his interview. Clearly CC had a certain type of paranoia and had reports on all those he came into contact with. I found the interview interesting.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Carla
      Carla

      Hi Fred

      Yeah. I have to be honest. I´m really sorry for his death but that doesn´t mean I liked him. He wasn´t a person who we could sympathize with. Today it was released by the news that RS, in the day of the murder, at lunch time (I think) left the hotel room for a moment and asked for help in the street. He asked a borrowed phone to a stranger and called his mother. He asked her to help him to go home sooner. He must have been desperate to do that. This story has many “secrets” and untold details. This wasn´t just a murder. Something very serious must have happened and CC must have contributed greatly to this outcome. RS must have lost his sanity for some moments.

      Jan 14, 2011 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fred
      Fred

      I think much of the secret lies in what the detective said at the morning chat show. He said: “If CC did not get what he wanted, he shouted at them and used the reports to apply pressure and stress to get what he wanted”. I think here lies much of the mystery. I have sent an e-mail to Renato´s USA lawyer to try to get a copy of this interview.
      Rgds

      Jan 14, 2011 at 6:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Carla
      Carla

      Well done. Tell us in case he answers your email.

      (I´m somehow admired with the fact that the detective didn´t try to defend CC no matter what. He had a nice attitude. I´m really sorry I lost that interview. I´ll try to find it in youtube. Maybe I´m lucky)

      Jan 14, 2011 at 7:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Carla
      Carla

      @Fred: There´s more. Why was CC obsessed with his own death, during all the the year of 2010? how did he know he would die murdered? Why did he ask for his own ashes to be spread over the Hudson river in NY? It seemed he knew he was going to die in NY… there´s a lot of weird things here…

      Jan 14, 2011 at 8:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fred
      Fred

      According to the detective, CC was obsesssed with his own death, bceause he had many enemies (which included amongst them — the failed relationships). He wanted his ashes spread over Broadway … not the HUdson river … according to a paragraph written in a book by CC.

      Jan 15, 2011 at 4:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • T.
      T.

      @Ashton C: Wow you really make it sound like young men are a bunch of childish morons which is kinda cruel. If you couldn’t find one when you met your husband what makes you think you can find one when your his age?

      Jan 15, 2011 at 10:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fred
      Fred

      Dear Moron Ashton C. —- IT IS WRONG TO PASS UNWARRANTED JUDGEMENTS. A HORRIBLE CRIME WAS COMMITED AND THERE CAN BE NO DOUBT THAT RENATO MUST PAY FOR HIS CRIME. I MERELY REPORTED WHAT CASTRO´S PRIVATE DETECTIVE OF MANY YEARS SAID IN A 40 MINUTE INTERVIEW …. THAT CASTRO HIRED HIM TO MAKE REPORTS ON ALL WITH WHOM CASTRO CAME INTO CONTACT WITH (PROFESSIONALLY OR OTHERWISE)…. AND OFTEN USED SUCH REPORTS TO APPLY FORMS OF PRESSURE LIKE BLACKMAIL. CRIME OUGHT ALWAYS TO BE CONDEMNED … BUT CASTRO DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE THE WONDERFUL SAINT PEOPLE TRY TO MAKE OUT. SO DEAR MORON ASHTON …. LEARN TO INTERPRET ENGLISH IN A SIMPLE MANNER … RATHER THAN BE OFFENSIVE.

      Jan 16, 2011 at 5:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • had kdk
      had kdk

      what an ugly faggot . good thing he is dead so we don’t have to look at his hideous face. disgusting in every way.

      Jan 29, 2011 at 1:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @had kdk: i happen to think that murder is disgusting and that your shallow childishness is extremely immature.

      Jan 29, 2011 at 2:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • A.T.
      A.T.

      Give us a break, please!

      @skbnwinters:

      Feb 1, 2011 at 3:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • A.T.
      A.T.

      @Ashton C:
      Not all young men are cash-bags and this story is of average youth, not a shop-owner having a choice to #$%^ old or young, AshtonC.

      Feb 1, 2011 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • A.T.
      A.T.

      Yes, it’s good, also I had found even more interesting M.Kerjman’s publications both on similar and much more substantial topics in the net.

      Feb 1, 2011 at 3:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • A.T.
      A.T.

      @Peter: Yes, it’s good, also I had found even more interesting M.Kerjman’s publications both on similar and much more substantial topics in the net.

      Feb 1, 2011 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Duarte
      Duarte

      If Renato Seabra was a young female model who murderded her “agent” because she was being sexualy coersed in exchange for oportunities everybody would simpathize with him. i not excusing waht he did but what i see here is a young unstable boy that acted irrationaly out of hate and desperation, after being pressured for a long long time. yes it is a horrible crime and he should be acouted for it, but isn’t it also a horrible crime to take advantage of a young boy or girl? no one acts like this just because. that’s all i’m saying.

      Feb 2, 2011 at 2:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DIOGO
      DIOGO

      this punk kid killed viciously, so get his low life ass in jail.
      Cus if he gets extradited 2 portugal, he will do no time at all. In fact he will probably be considered a victim. In portugal if u kill someone you are usually considered psychologically unstable, so criminals do what they want there.
      So cut the crap and lock his ass up for eternity! portuguese people are so retarded that there is even an organization to try and extradite this asshole. and yes i have the right to mention this cus i’m portuguese, so any angry or offended portuguese people out there…

      GO FUCK YOURSELF

      Feb 15, 2011 at 4:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Scourge
      The Scourge

      So in another article he said he ‘…killed the older man to rid the him of his “homosexual demons” ‘

      Well… where he is going he is going to get homosexual demons jumping him for 25 years.

      All very sad… but evil begets evil. … and yet I hear people with excuses…”oh its a gay thing”

      Lock him away.

      As for his predator, Carlos Castro… I hope Homosexual predators will think twice about acting on their impulses; they are truly stirring up demons… and destroying themselves and others in the process.

      Our society needs to wake up and see how evil the whole culture of homosexuality… no different than Nazism which was inspired by the gay movement of the German 20s… Look up a well documented book entitle “The Pink Swastika”

      Mar 9, 2011 at 1:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      You sound like quite the nazi yourself.

      Mar 9, 2011 at 1:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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