Barney Frank Explains That Log Cabin Republican “Uncle Tom” Comment

If the Log Cabin Republicans — or their even more outlandish cousins, the oddly-named GOProud — were honestly to acknowledge that they let their own economic interests, or their opposition to strong environmental policies, or their belief that we need to be spending far more on the military or some other reason ahead of any commitment to LGBT equality, and on that ground have decided to prefer the anti-LGBT candidate to the supportive one, I would disagree with the values expressed, but would have no complaint about their logic….The argument Mr. Cooper and the others in the Log Cabin Republicans have put forward in their defense is that they have succeeded in getting the Republicans to reduce the extent to which they denounce us, and, in Mr. Cooper’s phrase, the fact that Paul Ryan is ‘willing to engage’ with gay Republicans. That is where Uncle Tom comes to mind. They are urging people to vote for the anti-LGBT candidate over the most supportive LGBT candidate and platform imaginable because the ‘antis’ are calling us fewer names and are willing to talk to some of us. It is this willingness to acquiesce in a subordinate status as long as the masters are kinder in tone, although in substance, that emulates Uncle Tom….Some have complained that in comparing the Log Cabin Republicans to Uncle Tom, I was ignoring the fact that they are nice. I accept the fact that many of them are nice — so was Uncle Tom — but in both cases, they’ve been nice to the wrong people.”

Barney Frank took to the Huffington Post to explain his “admittedly very harsh” criticism of the Log Cabin Republicans.

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  • tidalpool

    I am constantly offended by people who assume that their lives and their choices must needs dictate all of our lives and choices.
    Rep. Frank leads a life that is antithetical to my own. His physical persona, his life choices, his astonishing lack of morals and his lack of self control are completely outside my comprehension.
    Rep. Frank is gay, I am gay, but very different types of gays. I was raised to be self reliant, to work to meet my goals, to control my behavior and appetites. ‘All” things in moderation’ was my motto. This included eating, drinking, excersize, even sex.
    The conservative gays who form the ‘Log Cabin’ republicans and GOPROUD are much more like myself than Rep. Frank. Rep. Frank seems to find some sort of affirmation by attacking men who do not make sex and orientation as the singular defining characteristic of their adult lives. I suspect it is his own lack of self discipline in all matters that has lead him to this destructive position. His lack of control at the table is self evident. His lack of discipline in neatness, in self respect, in common courtesy also is evident. The fact he chose a drug dealing hustler as his marraige partner again tells us about Rep. Franks character.
    In the end, I am proud of all gay men who struggle to gain us equal rights. I find Rep. Frank’s attacks on many of those same men reprehensible. We can not all be Barney F
    ranks. Many of us were just born different. Trust me on this.

    Full story here:

  • Little-Kiwi

    you should be more upset, Marc Conder, that the party you align yourself with is promoting bigotry and prejudice against the LGBT Community. The GOP is once again running an anti-gay campaign.

    you testicle-deprived wimps don’t have the spines to stand up to it or defy it. instead, you choose to complain about being called exactly what you are: Uncle Toms.

    it’s sad that your family doesn’t think highly enough of you to consider you a person of worth, deserving of Equality.

    The GOP runs on anti-gay prejudice, and you and your family are ok with it. how sad.

    we liberals dont’ have that problem. our families and friends love us with passion , and would never deign to support those that work against us.

    yes. you were born different. you were born without a spine and without balls.

    it’s actually gay republicans who are the only ones “defined by their sexual orientation”

    you’re such pussy-whipped cowards about it that you pathetically need to lean-right in order to convince your piece of shit families that you’re “not like those horrible liberal gays”

    yeah. those horrible liberal gays that stand up for justice and what’s right in the world.

  • BJ McFrisky

    No explanation necessary, Barney. “Uncle Tom” is very, very tame compared to what gay liberals call gay conservatives (I’ve been on the receiving end of it many times). And liberals love to use the race card, regardless of the issue. You might want to look beyond your bulbous nose and understand that gay men who aren’t die-hard liberals are building bridges between us and communities that might not have ever accepted us. You libs, on the other hand, are using divisive politics to say “Accept me or I’ll call you names.” Stay classy, Barney.

  • jeff4justice

    This is the same guy who wanted to throw trnasgnder people under a bus with ENDA.

    You’ve seen one 2party system charade tool, you’ve seen em all.

  • Little-Kiwi

    BJ McFrisky, it would be wonderful for you to show us all the incredibly bridge-building work you and your family are doing to show the GOP base that embracing LGBT Equality will in no way “harm America”

    let’s see it, eh? you can provide the URL to your own webpage, youtube page, tumblr, blogspot, anything. Don’t tell us you’re building bridges, SHOW US. Show us the specific work you and your amazing family are doing. Show us the success-stories you’ve had.

    prove it.

    *ten bucks says you can’t*

  • Cam

    @BJ McFrisky: So let me get this straight, Liberals are the name callers, but you attack Frank, a Jew, for having a big nose…ok, got it.

    YAAWWWWWWNNNNN….. Oh gosh sorry, I just couldn’t help it, i’ve heard all of the crying about what victims the GOP gays are and what bullies the “Liberal” gays are so many times.

    Look, you guys can play that game all you want. As well as the game poster number one is playing with the. “Gee, I don’t live my life like Barney Frank, he is an old perv and I am a young upstanding guy” but your deflection attempt won’t work.

    The GOP wants to outalw gay rights. Mitt Romney went before Congress asking for the U.S. Constitution to be amended to have an anti-gay rights amendment. This isn’t some guy who has a different opinion. This is a guy who wanted the foundation of our govt. to be fundamentally altered to be used against us.

    Log Cabin endorsed the opponent of Rep Murphy, the man who introduced the DADT repeal. They cheered his loss.

    Log Cabin and GOProud are supporting people that seek to do us harm, and yet our dissagreeing with that makes them the victim.

    Don’t even get me started on the fact that GOProud claims to be a “Gay” group and yet the majority of their board is not gay.

    I realized that Log Cabin had changed and become an anti-gay group when in addition to cheering the defeat of Rep Murphy, they attacked Obama for signing the DADT repeal and for coming out against gay marriage, AND for lying and trying to claim that Senator McCain was not against gay adoption even though he had been in a commercial opposing gay adoption.

    Attacking your own group and taking the side of others that seek to do you harm, that fits the definition.

    You are like the anti-gay bigots who cry that we are attacking them by calling them “Bigots”…nope just labeling them according to their actions and opinions.

  • Little-Kiwi

    to Cam’s point – Gay Republicans are so cowardly and pathetic that they complain about “liberals calling them names” instead of REPUBLICAN POLITICIANS PROMOTING BIGOTRY AND PREJUDICE AGAINST LGBT PEOPLE.

    This, Gay Republicans, is why you’re not accepted by your families or members of the gay community – not because you’re gay, but because you’re such spineless wimps about it.

    wanna prove me wrong? then PROVE me wrong – share the URL where you can show us all the incredible bridge-building work that you and your family and fellow Republicans are doing to advance understanding of LGBT people with the GOP.

    prove it. i freakin’ dare ya to try.

  • Aidan8

    @Little-Kiwi: LOL I’ll throw in another ten bucks!

  • Aidan8

    Uncle Tom is an apt comparison and Frank just did a good job of explaining why. You don’t have to like everything about Rep. Frank, but on this one he’s 100% correct.

  • BJ McFrisky

    Blah blah blah–provide URLs–your family hates you–show me show me–blah blah blah. Dude (or lassie), your mantra has gotten very old. The only person who doesn’t “accept” me is you. And I never claimed to be the leader of gay Republicans—I’m not even a Republican, frankly—and your demand that I prove anything to you is more hot air borne of your unparallelled anger (as is evidenced by all of your loud, angry capital letters). All I stated is a fact: Gay liberals hate gays conservatives. It’s been proven time and time again on this very website. To the gay Left, ideology trumps sexuality, so you’re obviously liberal first and gay second.
    And I DARE you to PROVE that you’re NOT an ANGRY liberal who HATES all gay men who DON’T agree with your POLITICS!!! (see how childish and lacking in common sense a demand like that sounds?) You’re welcome for the lesson in civility.

  • Aidan8

    @BJ McFrisky: So BJ, just out of curiosity, are you suggesting that you are “gay first, conservative second?” Because if that’s the case, then I would expect you to put gay first and vote for a party that supports LGBT rights and is inclusive of LGBT people. (regardless of your conservatism) But you don’t, since you’ve said you vote Republican. Do you see the disconnect many of us on the left see?

  • Cam

    @BJ McFrisky: said….

    and your demand that I prove anything to you is more hot air borne of your unparallelled anger (as is evidenced by all of your loud, angry capital letters). All I stated is a fact: Gay liberals hate gays conservatives. It’s been proven time and time again on this very website.

    So Just so I’m clear….

    1. You are refusing to provide any evidence as to your statements.

    2. You claim that your statements about liberals have been proven time and time again but can provide no links or proof.

    Ok, gotcha.

    Oh by the way. Where in your last post did you explain how the Uncle Tom lable is factually incorrect? Oh wait, thats right, you were too busy trying to deflect and just weren’t able to get around to it.

  • Little-Kiwi

    so you can’t back it up, McFrisky. Didn’t think you could.

    It’s not my fault that my family and friends are outspoken advocates for LGBT Equality and yours aren’t.

    see? straight friends and straight parents. supporting us.

    why can’t you do the same? because your people don’t care about you.

    feel like proving me wrong? actually prove me wrong.

  • Little-Kiwi

    gay liberals hate the cowardice, intellectual dishonesty and ignorance of gay republicans.

    it’s not because “they’re republicans” – it’s because of the spinelessness in which gay republicans never stand up against the promotion of bigotry against LGBT people by the Republican party.

    gay liberals criticize gay republicans because of the specifics of republican policy.

    gay republicans criticize gay liberals because if they don’t their parents won’t grant them pithy tolerance.

    feel free to make me look like a real fool by proving me wrong. but you won’t. because you can’t. :)

  • Kev C

    Barney Frank is in the house. The GOProud are in the field. Both of them are slaves to their master party.

  • BJ McFrisky

    No, I’m not suggesting that anyone should put their sexuality ahead of their ideology, I just find it endlessly ironic that I’m despised by my fellow gay brothers for not falling in line with their political beliefs. No other minority is as blatantly divided over politics, not blacks, women, nobody. Which says a lot about us.
    Wow. Your venom is just boiling over, isn’t it. You love to state, as if you’re privy to such things, how my friends and family hate me. And this proves my point that when liberals have no facts, they pull them out of thin air. You say, “Your people don’t care for you. Prove me wrong.” Really? In case you missed that day in elementary school, not caring for someone is a negative, and it’s impossible to prove a negative. What, you want access to my facebook page? I should send you videos of last Christmas? How could I possibly prove you wrong—besides the fact that you just are? By having a website declaring my pride? You are so over-the-top militantly gay and anti-anything-that-isn’t-gay that holding a discussion with you is obviously pointless. So, enjoy your angry, (presumably) miserable existence, and I’ll enjoy mine, and we’ll both be happy in life.

  • tidalpool

    Little Kiwi
    greetings and salutations!
    I am at a loss as to how you can assume how my family acts, or loves, or doesnt love me as a gay conservative. I also did not understand the personal attacks on my supposed lack of sexual organs or your repeated statements of my lack of ‘spine.’
    I commented on Mr. Franks unwarrented dismissal of conservative gay men who dont fall into line with his way of thinking. I further indicated I could identify with Log Cabin Republicans far more then with Mr. Frank. I suspect as a conservative man, who trys not to judge others unless they try to shove their subjective opinions down my throat and tell me they are objective facts. Mr. Frank as an elected representative, and as a gay man seems to have annointed himself as THE gay spokesman in the congress. I made the point he is not. You seem to say the same things over and over, yet you offer no objective truths to back up your opinions. Perhaps your opinions would have more validity if you could proof out any of them, perhaps my family for a start? or the lack of testicals you claimed was my cause for being what? Conservative? Gay? Little Kiwi, in my family, we are each valued for our own opinions. Group think is discouraged. I honor diversity, and I take joy in the differences each of us brings to the table. Try it sometimes rather then demanding we all think and speak and act alike. Thats just a bit to orwellian for me sir.

  • Little-Kiwi

    opinions are great. ignorance isn’t.

    the GOP is running yet another anti-gay campaign. and your parents don’t mind it.

    my mother and father would sooner eat a bowl of glass than support someone, or a party, that actively works against the LGBT community. Why? because they actually love me. I’m sorry yours doesn’t feel the same way about you, truly. That’s gotta hurt.

    you’re more than free to do what i’ve done – show what you and you family are doing to promote LGBT Equality. So far, y’all are voting for the party that is running anti-gay campaign ads, and is actively seeking to codify anti-gay discrimination into law. what parent would do that to a gay child? simple – a parent that doesn’t actually give a f**k about their gay child.

    but hey, grab that camera and show us all what incredible bridge-building your amazing family are doing to convince their fellow republicans that you, as their gay son, are a human being of worth.

    i don’t demand we all think and speak alike. your party does, however. that’s why you’re a neutered coward. you have to tow the line for the GOP, and speak out against their bigotry, or you wont’ be tolerated.

    we liberals dont’ have that problem.

    you need this video. feel free to show us all what your amazing family is similarly doing :D

    so, show us what your family is doing to convince other republicans that they don’t need to promote hatred against you. ten bucks says you can’t, either.

  • Little-Kiwi

    No, BJ – you can prove me wrong by doing what i do – showing what pro-LGBT work your amazing family is doing.


    it’s not my fault your parents wish you weren’t their son. in fact, you can thank my parents for devoting their retirement years to working hard so that other young gay men aren’t born to lousy bigots like your parents.


  • balehead

    he shouldn’t have to explain republicans are the epitamy of self hate…

  • Little-Kiwi

    my favourite thing is the gay conservative defense of “oh, so you dont’ ACCEPT me for not FALLING IN LINE WITH YOURRRR BELIEFS!”

    No. It’s your own pathetic fucking families that don’t accept you unless you suck up to their bigotry, you cowards. :D

  • Aidan8

    @BJ McFrisky: BJ, I would just add that there’s absolutely nothing “ironic” about fellow LGBT people being angry/frustrated/confused by someone who supports a party that explicitly oppresses our community. So, since you support the GOP, you’re part of that. There’s nothing ironic about it. You support a party that basically hates us. So why would you expect the feel-good-love-and-admiration from fellow gay people? I think you are entitled to your opinions and political beliefs and I don’t hate you or despise you. I just don’t understand you. Can you see how it’s not ironic? And how it might upset people who see the GOP for what it is?

  • Little-Kiwi

    i understand gay republicans. and i pity them. they’re living proof of what anti-gay prejudice can reduce our weakest members to: boys who cut off their own balls in exchange for tolerance. not love, not acceptance. just Tolerance.


  • brent

    @Little-Kiwi: Nice video, you’re not a bad looking guy. But you’re ideas are another thing. In trying to understand gay republicans you have come up with this rather weird idea that it has something to do with our parents. Where do you get this from? My mother voted for Obama in the last election. Did it dawn on you that maybe there are different motives? I for one am a supporter of Milton Friedman, i hate the EPA, favor oil drilling in alaska, favor school choice, support right to work laws, believe RoeV.Wade was a terrible decision. Now are these beliefs all based on my desire to please my parents? As for courage i still haven’t seen you or Barney Frank speak out against homophobia in the black and hispanic communities. I won’t hold my breath.

  • brent

    @Aidan8: You’re saying gay conservatives should put aside other beliefs and vote for the democrats anyhow. Well i vote for candidates, not parties and have voted for democrats and republicans so you could probably call me more of an independent. But as far as putting my other beliefs aside, would you be willing to do the same? If for example Dick Cheney were running for president and was for full equality would you vote for him? I mean would you put aside all you’re liberal beliefs on other issues and just for the one issue of equality?

  • Little-Kiwi

    brent – prove it. URL, put a face to your claims, sugar.

    and its hilarious that you, as a gay man, think you have any business telling a woman what she can or cannot do with her body.

    you deserve every ounce of anti-gay hatred and prejudice you’re going to encounter in life. :D

    keep proving me right, wimps.

  • tidalpool

    Little Kiwi, greetings! Are you actually from NZ? Or is this a nickname? I have enjoyed my few trips to NZ, the mountains and sking were wonderful, as were the hot springs and very kind people. I suspect you are not well versed in what a conservative is. It sounds like you mistake conservatives for republicans. A pointless error, rather like assuming liberals are all democrats. The current parties are far from where they started, and many in America belong to one or the other because we have held to a two party system for far to long.
    I am relatively confident of commenting on Barney Frank for we are of an age. I came out in the early 1970’s to my parents, met my partner in the late 70’s, and we have been in a monogamous relationship ever since. 30 plus years gives one a level of understanding, and even acceptance of firebrands like yourself.
    We spent our early years in SF, marching and advocating for anything to be done for the AIDS crisis. By the middle 80’s we had added civil rights/equal rights to our agenda and they both continue to this day.
    My biological family are farmers, and between them and my siblings and our partners, we run a food bank in my home town for those in need, and my conservative partner works with the LGBT veterans who arrive from theatre needing significant assistance in returning to life in the normal world. We both work with the Fischer House foundation and as Army veterans ourselves we have had a solid year to work with members of our community who are still A/D since the end of DADT.
    A life can be spent observing, or participating. My upbringing assured my conservatism. Being a farm boy certainly helps you in understanding work for man’s essentials. I am not conservative first, nor am I gay first, nor Catholic first. I am a human first. A member of mankind. I know words have meaning, and can have great effect upon the recipient. Kiwi, please look at your words, try not to label or judge another based on remarks on a modality like this. At best, its a peak into a moment of anothers thoughts. Anything more is speculation, and in the end karma has a way of returning your words to you, if you believe in the metaphysical. Perhaps one day we may find common cause about another topic.

  • brent

    @Little-Kiwi: URL, not sure what that means. What claim do you want me to prove? Didn’t say anything about a woman controlling her body. Said i don’t agree with supreme court overstepping their bounds. Still abortion rights are not the same as gay rights. One is a choice the other not.

  • Aidan8

    @brent: No, Brent. I’m not saying conservatives should vote one way or the other. I AM saying that you shouldn’t expect the rest of the LGBT community to be happy with you for supporting a party (the GOP) that expressly hates us and fosters our oppression.

  • the other Greg

    There are millions of gay liberals whose conservative parents hate them for being gay. And most of those millions of gay liberals don’t particularly care that their conservative parents hate them.

    We move away and become independent gay adults. We live our lives, we see our parents and relatives at Thanksgiving and funerals, and over time we sort of forget about our stupid parents. (Don’t we?) And over time our parents may come around to accept us (which is nice). Or they may not. But either way, who gives a sh1t? What difference does it make what your parents think about anything?

    Little Kiwi’s “family” obsession always baffles me. But as a liberal who had conservative parents, I can never figure out why any grownup over the age of about 22 would worry much about their parents’ opinion on anything.

  • the other Greg

    Having said that (#30) I should add that I’m not sure what pattern (if any) to see in gay conservatives’ parental obsessions (or lack thereof).

    Nowadays it would be extremely unlikely to have parents who were anti-gay AND left-wing. So we gay liberals tend to assume that maybe gay conservatives are just trying to impress their conservative parents. Maybe this is incorrect, or an over-simplification, who knows. But this Freudian stuff is beside the point.

    Barney Frank is saying, it’s possible to make a case for certain conservative views, but don’t just say you’re ‘getting conservatives to talk with you’ etc. The latter DOES look suspiciously Freudian!

  • brent

    @the other Greg: I don’t know why it would be suspicious that conservatives talk to gays. The late Andrew Briebart was pro-gay and Ted Olson has been as well. I also notice on Fox News they have a late night show called RED EYE, it has quite a few young conservatives who are pro gay including Greg Gutfeld and his co-host Andy Levy.

  • alexoloughlin

    It was those very “liberal” progressive Stonewall gays that started the equality movement in this country. Gay republicans can play the “liberal” card all they want. The fact of the matter is, the GOP’s platform does NOT include full equality for LGBT people and almost all of them are in opposition to same-sex marriage.

    Even if the economy weren’t in the doldrums and jobs lacking, they’d still support a party that has no interest in legislating for their rights. In fact it wants to roll back the rights they’ve already gained, as well as women’s rights. They weren’t berating George Bush in the 8 years he was in office, the one whose administration with the support of his party endorsed squandering the net surplus bequeathed by the former Clinton administration that ended up in the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression and two wars that were never paid for. Republicans as fiscal hawks my ass!

  • Cam

    Interesting fact. The Log Cabiners will ignore posts that as specific questions and provide facts. They will try to constantly change the subject onto “You’re mean, you hate me because I have a different political opinion.”

    Don’t fall for it. If I think that a particular group shouldn’t have rights, and you support me, then don’t have a different political opinion, you are actively supporting somebody attacking that group.

    Mitt Romney wanted a constitutional amendment against gay rights.

    Log Cabin attacked Obama for signing the DADT repeal,

    Log Cabin attacked Obama for coming out in favor of gay marriage.

    Log Cabin endorsed the opponent of Rep Patrick Murphy who introduced the DADT repeal in favor of his much much less gay friendly opponent.

    Log Cabin cheered the loss of Rep Patrick Murphy. Murphy was a pro gay Iraq War Vet and they were cheering that he lost to an opponent who wouldn’t clarify their positions on gay issues.

    They have actively attacked multiple pro-gay folks and situations. That is the definition of an anti-gay party.

  • Papi Balenciaga

    @Little-Kiwi: #26. Agreed. He is such an ignorant creature.
    @brent: My mother is black and my father is hispanic and I have never faced any kind of homophobia from either community.

  • brent

    @Papi Balenciaga: You must be lucky. Are you trying to tell me that i am wrong? All the stories we’v heard in the press over the years are wrong. That the election results from states that have voted on ga rights are wrong. You do know that blacks and hispanics vote in large numbers against marriage. With Prop. 8 the entire state voted 52% hispanics 54% and blacks 70%. In citiies where hispanics make up at least 90% of the population opposition to gay marriage polls around 60-70%. If i told you i was a mormon and have never experienced any kind of homophobia would you believe me?

  • Little-Kiwi

    here’s the thing, you wimps – you can’t prove me wrong because you know i’m right.

    wanna try, sugars? show us. show us the specifics. show us the specific pro-LGBT work that you and your amazing republican families are doing.

    show us. prove it. back it up.

    you won’t. because you can’t.

    don’t tell me what you’ve done. SHOW ME.

    you won’t be able to ;-)

    and this is why you gay republicans are such embarrassments – you’re spineless doormats. at some point you need to let your balls drop, actually become men, and stop catering to the prejudices of the bigots you were born to. be a freakin’ adult and stop living your life to appease others. most of us learn that lesson in our late teens.

    and,, you’re not a human being first. you’re a doormat first.

    you’re what your family uses to wipe the dogshit off their boots before they step into the house. it’s pathetic.

  • Little-Kiwi

    and, Brent, the Prop 8 campaign was entirely funded and organized by white Christian and REPUBLICAN groups.

    but hey, you’ll ignore that so you can focus on blacks to distract from the reality that your own people don’t think you deserve to marry.

    lemme guess, any second now you’re gonna do that typical anonymous internet troll thing and pretend your dad is dead too, right?


  • brent

    @Cam: I read you’re post and found it not convincing, so i clicked on wikipedia, which is considered somewhat of a liberal site. I found that the log cabin republicans did not endorse Bush in ’92 because of homophobic statements at the convention. Also they did not endorse Bush in 2004 because of amendment against marriage, but did endorse McCain in 2008 because he promised not to support it.They also lobbied Schwarzeneger to oppose the family research council. As for DADT, sir you have just told a whooper of a lie or are ignorant of facts yourself. In 2004 the log cabin’s filed suit in court to overturn DADT, their case came to trial in 2010. It was OBAMA’S administration which argued against the log cabin’s. How you can say log cabin’s opposed overturning DADT when they spent 6 years in court fighting it is beyond me.

  • tidalpool

    Kiwi et al,
    Time for this conservative to move on. This was a learning experience as I have very little contact with ‘liberal’ gays. The members of the community I am in contact with are all military or military aligned. Kiwi, you are so far outside my ken I am not sure how to communicate with you. You seem to be quite angry, certainly hostile and your responses to those you disagree with all involve name calling. This may work well in your community, its a no/go in mine. Respect is both a sign of maturity and judgement. Did you know there is a marked difference between a factual age and a mental age?
    I have encountered men who were as intransigent as yourself in the past. I also found they either learn how to compromise or they break. Regardless, it serves no purpose to attempt to communicate with some one as rigid as you. For the rest of you, I have enjoyed reading your comments, and hope to see you on another topic in future. Adios!

  • brent

    @Little-Kiwi: How many times do i have to tell you my mother voted for OBAMA!!!!!AS for my father i do not know anything about him. As for mormons financing the campaign, are you telling me that wasn’t because they’re white, and it’s politically correct for liberals to protest whites. If not then are you telling me that liberals would have protested black churches if they had financied the campaign? Or if muslims had financied the campaign liberals would have burned the koran like they burned the mormon holy book? I can’t wait to hear you’re answers to my last two questions. Should i hold my breath waiting?

  • Little-Kiwi

    no, you gay conservatives can continue to prove me right by being unable to back your shit up.

    grow some balls, boys :)

    respect? hilarious. your family and chosen party don’t respect you. keep sucking their boots :D

    yes. name calling is a no-go in your community. being silent while they take away your rights is.

    and brent, you can hold your breath til you black out. you’ll never put a face to your comments and back up your claims, so enjoy your life under your burqa.

  • brent

    @Little-Kiwi: What are you talking about? I ask you questions as directly as i can and instead of getting answers i get feed back that doesn’t make sense, at least to me. continue to prove me right by being unable to back your s–up WHAT? Put a face to my comments. what does that mean? Is there some reason you just can’t answer the questions in my last post?

  • Little-Kiwi

    your forget, wimpy one, that unlike you i don’t make my comments from a place of anonymity.

    you choose to blame “blacks” for Prop 8. you should blame republicans, who supported it.

    but that would require you to be honest. no wonder your dad never wanted anything to do with you, sheesh.

  • the other Greg

    @Little-Kiwi: I’m a liberal and I like your politics, and I like your blog. But what’s with your parent obsession? It’s weird and creepy, dude.

    On your blog you don’t go on & on & on & on about parents. You only do that here on Queerty. Why?? Maybe you should be discussing your parental obsession with a psychiatrist and not with us.

    Your creepiest statement here was in #19 (to Blow Job McFreaky): “you can thank my parents for devoting their retirement years to working hard so that other young gay men aren’t born to lousy bigots like your parents.” What does that MEAN??? Are your parents financing a project to have conservative parents SPAYED? That’s quite an amusing notion, but you seem to have confused gay human upbringing with dog breeding. Was that your dog’s advice?

    I’m willing to believe that probably, most gay conservatives are sucking up to their parents. Makes sense to me, even if it’s unprovable. But what’s up with YOU? Judging solely by your parent worship stuff, you’d seem to be, like, 9 years old. But I was relieved to see you finally tell the gay conservatives: “stop catering to the prejudices of the bigots you were born to. be a freakin’ adult and stop living your life to appease others. most of us learn that lesson in our late teens.” Right, so why must you allude to your wonderful parents in practically every post here?

    This may come as a shock to you, Kiwi, but nobody gives a shit about your magical superhero parents!

  • the other Greg

    Re: Prop 8 – well it’s true that the anti-gay TV ad campaign was financed by Mormons. But does everyone make their voting decisions based solely on TV ads? Maybe if you’re white and live in a trailer park and spend your Sundays drinking beer. People of color who are more religiously “observant” might make their voting decisions based on what their nutbag preacher advises them, rather than (or in addition to) what TV ads advise them.

    So it’s disingenuous to blame Prop 8 on either factor, exclusively. BOTH ARE TRUE. Both have some statistical truth to them.

  • the other Greg

    @brent: I don’t agree with you much politically, but I can tell you that the anonymous “Kiwi” has this weird (and hypocritical) obsession that everyone posting here should link to their own site, or else they’re too “anonymous” for his refined taste. But it’s not obvious what his real name is from his site. However because of his parental obsession I like to call him Archduke Johnny von Kiwi-Hapsburg, scion of deposed (inbred?) royalty. Btw, how do we even know that’s really HIM in the cute picture? Maybe his whole site is a sham!

    I’m mystified by this notion that just because the internet has been invented, suddenly we’re ALL supposed to be making “It Gets Better” videos or something. I’m just a blue collar worker with little interest in computer stuff.

    Notice that Kiwi has bullied the only person here who has actually linked to a site. So I’m not sure what would meet with his approval anyway. … Oh I know, maybe i could get an ugly fuckin’ pit bull (not that there’s anything wrong with that), and move to New York or Toronto, and blog random musings about my fabulous life as a… waiter, or “artist” or whatever, and random musings about pop culture, and call it “activism.” :)

  • brent

    @the other Greg: LOL youcould be like Michael Musto. Interesting you mentioned Hapsburg,i was just reading about Otto Van Hapsburg. I do notice that there is a certain level of paranoia here than in other sites.

  • Little-Kiwi

    note that the link to the site has absolutely nothing to do with showing what that republican and his republican friends and family are doing to actively promote LGBT Equality to their fellow republicans.

    nuance, yo.

    congrats on being a blue collar worker who can’t afford a webcam! :)

    you’re more than free to continue to only feel safe commenting from a place of anonymity. i left that nonsense behind when i came out as a teen ;-)

  • the other Greg

    @Little-Kiwi: You live in NYC, I live in a decrepit old factory town. If my bf & I put up a site like yours, living where we do, we’d be in physical danger. And it wouldn’t promote LGBT equality around here much, because the non-dangerous people here would think it was fucking ridiculous. (Yes, I like it, but I’m already gay.)

    Queerty says it’s fine if posters are anonymous. Using my first name I’m arguably less anonymous here than you are, Johnny or Raymond or whatever your name is.

    Re: ‘tidalpool.’ His political views were annoying enough. Why attack his spam site too? You don’t encourage anyone to be less “anonymous” when you make it clear that no link is going to satisfy you anyway. Yes I was aware that his link was irrelevant to LGBT equality, but so are pet videos.

    What are my responsibilities to other gay people? :

    a) real life: I’m out at work – not that I chit-chat with those people much – and out to my family (who I generally dislike) and to two straight veteran pals (who I like). I’ve commented on Queerty before about my bf & I being sero-discordant, which is a situation we’ve thought has needed some activism from us (groups, March on Washington in July etc.). We vote, and make the occasional political contribution. And that’s about it. We’re not very social, and we dislike being around kids. So what else are we supposed to do? I really don’t care. If that’s not enough for you, Anonymous Kiwi, too bad.

    b) online: I don’t have any responsibilities to other gay people. Seriously, I don’t. Your webcam remark has an oddly Romney-esque cluelessness. The point was not the cost. The point was that I have “little interest in computers” and I don’t work with them much. So the prospect of learning computer stuff for no other reason than to impress you, dear Kiwi, is not that exciting. It’s not in the Gay Rule Book anywhere that I must learn to use a webcam. You should know that since you’re so “culturally austere”!

  • the other Greg

    @Little-Kiwi: One more point (since I’m working tomorrow & have nothing better to do!)…

    What do you think is the purpose of YOUR site?

    How is it promoting “LGBT equality” if 98% of your audience is gay? And the other 2% is P-FLAG? (Or do you think otherwise?)

    Or do you think it has an It Gets Better function? Because if you really have fantasies about it being a great IGB for suicidal teenagers, I can assure you as a former suicidal teenager that they’re not going to be able to relate to you, they’re just going to see you as an exhibitionist. In fact, you’re freaking them out by implying they’ll need to act like you as an adult. :(

    Exhibitionists are fine as long as they are (a) entertaining and (b) kinda hot (double check IMO) – and if your purpose is really just to entertain yourself, or distract yourself from a boring job, etc., well THAT I can understand. Otherwise you really need to get over these delusions of grandeur.

  • Little-Kiwi

    you’d be amazed at the emails i get from people who’ve shared the message(s) with family and friends and community, and how many others have been inspired to come out because of it. there’s a reason some of us do what we do – feedback that it works from those with the intellectual integrity to understand and take control of their own lives.


    yes. they’ll just see me an exhibitionist. right. and they’ll just see you as…oh, wait. no. they won’t see you. at all.

    exactly. ;-)

    you’re more than free to explain why you can’t put a face to your comments. as you admit, it’s because you’re afraid of what will happen if you do. thus, you should be thanking those of us who refuse to hide, in any way.

    so, you’re welcome.

  • Dresden

    I understand Little Kiwi’s anger toward gay conservatives… I’ve felt that way from time to time myself, but I’ve come to see things a bit differently. As with anything else in life, we must all choose our own path. Who am I, or anyone else, to criticize someone for making the decisions they have? Just because someone believes something I find reprehensible, does not make them a bad or weak person. Rather than vilify them, wouldn’t it be better to simply supply a counterpoint to their argument?

    I’m quite liberal, politically (though not necessarily leftist) and extremely liberal, socially… yet I can still appreciate what gay conservatives are doing to promote gay acceptance within the very circles that need it the most. I see no reason to crucify them, while they’re working toward the same cause from behind the lines.

    All I’m saying is that Little Kiwi’s venom is well meant, but misplaced. Gay conservatives are not the enemy… they’re fighting along side all of us. They are fighting from a place that I, and I can only assume Little Kiwi, never possibly could and I think we need all the help we can get.


  • tidalpool

    I should have shut this link down. Other Greg, I am curious as to how my politics were offensive. I did not bring up politics other then I could understand the log cabin guys better then BF. This may be a shocker to the so called gay advocates in here, but most gays in fly over country have lives that are not centered on gay anything. My web site was set up by the agency the advertises for us. It was not designed to cater to anything gay, and never will be. Life exists outside NYC and SF. I travel all over the world, have homes and businesses in 3 countries and the gay part of my life is about as important as my affection for seafood. A part of my life, an enjoyable part but not the center of my life. It never has been, and never will be. It has its place. That was my point with BF. His foolish behavior of late is begining to show his mind set. When he and his rentboy/escort chose to marry, and Barney began taking him to social affairs in DC, I almost choked! When Barney showed up with a belt around his neck, and his partner tugging on it at a house function, I truely felt he had gone over the line. What one does at the Folsom Street Fair is one thing, what one does at a social setting on the Hill is another.
    My constant and steady fight for equal rights has always included the entire world we must deal with. I understand some people can not reason beyond the tip of their organ, but in the real world we have familys, older people, a majority of heterosexuals who have never even known a gay person in their entire lives..we have people who hate us, people who fight us and people who use our minority status to gain political power.
    We can not even get their attention with people like barney and his rentboy.What we do get is instant dismissal. As long as there are gays who insist on deliberately pushing against the societys sexual norms, we are fighting an uphill battle.
    If you want respect, then be prepared to give it. If you want recognition as a responsibile member of society, then stop marching in 6 inch pink platforms cha cha heels with a leather jock strap on pride day. This recent juxtaposition of flaming dicks screaming at NYC’s catholic Bishop is less then productive. I shall do what I have done for 30 years, support sane and rational gay men and women who as adults in America are specifically addressing the issue of ‘equal rights under the constitution.’ When the issue of gay marraige hits the Supreme Court, it will be because for the past 12 years, the log cabin members, and gay conservatives had lobbied and worked the system to achieve what should have been ours from the start. And to be honest, people like Little Kiwi have forced us back a step for every 2 we take forward. Loud, verbal, with silly demands of all to achieve nothing of any value. I am glad his parents love him, some one has to.

  • Dresden

    Sorry, titalpool, you don’t get a pass. How dare you criticize anyone for their choice in expressing themselves? What you believe is “same and rational” could be completely different from what someone else believes is “sane and rational”… who the hell are you to judge?

    From my previous statement, you should understand that I appreciate what you have done for the gay movement, but that doesn’t give you, nor anyone else, the right to berate anyone else that chooses to do it in another way.

    We’re working toward the same goal… a little bit if acceptance can go a long way.


  • Dresden

    Oh hell.. I can’t edit my post… I meant “sane and rational” not same.

  • Banzelia

    The platform?? How stupid does Barney think people are? Only two years ago he was part of the leadership of the congressional supermajority that did absolutely nothing to repeal DOMA, ENDA or to end Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. Apart from those things the Dems conspicuously failed to do, there is precious little the federal government can do to facilitate equality. If they didn’t do it when no one could have stopped them, why is there any reason to believe under more tenuous circumstances?

  • Dresden

    @Banzelia: In case you didn’t happen to notice, DADT was repealed and Obama was the first president ever to state that he thought gays should have the right to marry. The Dems may not have done as much as you wanted them to, but those two things alone are very significant to the gay rights movement and have put us on much firmer ground than we ever have been before.

    There were more pressing issues at hand at the time… such as passing a stimulus, which, regardless of how the republicans want to paint it, worked and putting through health care reform, which I don’t believe went far enough, but, is still a huge benefit to the people of this nation. Did you not even consider that there were more important things on which the Dems should spend their political capital?

    Give me a break.


  • the other Greg

    @Little-Kiwi: Yes, THANK YOU for being OUT and an exhibitionist in NEW YORK CITY! That’s so fucking brave! That’s awesome.

    You are seriously out of touch with reality. I’m guessing you need to get out of NYC once in awhile and I don’t mean to mommy & daddy’s place. Let me guess – cottage on Lake Huron?

    Did Saint Daddy ever tie the family dog to the roof of the car? There’s something weirdly Romney-esque about you – from the flip, lefty side – and you just don’t get ordinary gay people.

    “and they’ll just see you as…oh, wait. no. they won’t see you. at all.
    exactly. ;-)”

    ??? – A fate worse than death for you??? – Yeah, I don’t want them to see me at all. So what?

    I’m making my points here in writing, without visuals, and the writing will convince some naturally smart people. And I’m not even a college graduate! Go figure.

    I’ve never seen anyone on any site demanding that people post pictures. What’s with your picture fetish? I don’t recommend that anyone give in to your curious demand for pix. You probably want to do something perverted with the pix.

    And hey, for someone so OBSESSED with the supposed ‘anonymity’ issue, when am I ever going to find out your name? “Hi, I’m Johnny (or Raymond, or Kiwi), I’ll be your waiter tonight…”

    Next time we take Amtrak to New York, I’ll be sure to tip you well when you’re our waiter. … scratch that, you’ll probably spit in our food, we’ll go to the Indian place on E. 6th St.

  • tidalpool

    I appreciate you stepping out on the proverbial limb. I have found a few things to be true about aging. One can learn from your own mistakes, and those of others. I refer to it as aqquiring wisdom. Couple that with objective fact, and you become aware that many of us are able to judge the behavior of ourselves and others. I know the difference between right and wrong. NAMBLA, for example, will always be in the wrong. Assulting the social conventions of the majority, while demanding respect for comprable conventions of the gay minority is counter productive. Judging a man by his actions, his stated belief system while he attacks his like brothers for not holding the same beliefs is also foolish, and wrong. Where did our individuality fade away, and the need for thinking in lockstep take its place? I grew up with the assuption our differences were to be celebrated. Our uniqueness honored and in the end, that made us human beings. The fascist approach that demands we all think alike, act in unison and vote at the same alter would make Mao beam and Che clean his beret for the upcoming parade. BF has the right to think and act as he chooses. I fought for that right while serving in the US Army, and to this day respect the Constitution of the USA that assures him of that choice. That same law does not assure the ‘rightness’ of his choice. He and Kiwi may chose to focus on their genitalia as the reason for being however, it just does notmake them right.
    Gays in the tapestry that is the American Society, may not be a large piece, or even a required piece to complete the tapestry. We can however show we provide some of the color, the quality, even the beauty of the tapestry. We shall never manage that as long as we ask those who view us as disabled Americans who seem to be focused on aberant forms of physical intercourse. For us to gain the legal rights others have ( some 1,114 federal laws and benefits tied to recognized unions (marraiges) we must never be seen as accepting pederasty (its not our kids who have been abused or assulted to date) nor organizations like NAMBLA where many gay educators have voiced affirmation of a male childs choice of sexual partners from as young as 6 year old. This is where we ignite fears we do not need to. The gay men I know would kill any man they saw molesting a child, let alone support the people who do. Str8s can be much worse. We must show to all we share common beliefs, share common values, and we must be willing to make that known to members of our community who are always willing to take sexual content just that bit to far. If we are not willing to recognize wrong when we see it (judge) how can we ever expect the 95% of the American Public who do not share our hard wired attractions to accept us? Because in spite of all the words thrown around, that is exactly what we are looking for,acceptance, recognition as equals, and of course equal rights under the law.

  • Banzelia

    @Dresden: Dres, O reversed DADT without any help from Barney and his congressional cohorts. More tellingly, he underwent his “evolution” only after he was safely past the possibility of a supermajority Dem congress sending him bills repealing DOMA and ENDA and perhaps most importantly of all, after campaign contributions from gays began falling off (as reported here at Qweerty). He was inaugurated in January 2009. His stimulus bill became law on March 11, 2009, so that didn’t stop anything.

    However, I’m glad to see someone acknowledge that rational people can consider some things to be more important than “gay rights” whatever that may mean. That seems to be the cardinal sin that the gay rights establishment most regularly accuses conservative gays of committing.

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