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“The most conservative conversations I’ve had about me being honest about my sexuality in this day and age have come from gay men in the industry, ‘oh no, you can’t come out, you shouldn’t really do that.’ They’re either people who work in publicity, or there’s also been casting directors who have put the call into my agent to say, ‘just so that you know, the way that this is going to be sold is that it’s a gay story written by gay writers for gay actors, so by just taking the role…’ This was at a stage where perhaps I was coming to terms with my own sexuality, I hadn’t necessarily hidden it…but I’ve never not been honest about it.”–Openly gay Bridgerton star Jonathan Bailey telling Ian McKellen how other queer people recommended staying in the closet to protect his career. The interview appears in Attitude.
Pistolo
It’s amazing how the heteronormative society that created these kinds of people is never blamed. It’s always gays vs gays.
Donston
I mean, it is partly our responsibility not to sell each other out. So many “queers” in the industry are responsible for helping purport closet pressures, hetero pressures, internalized homophobia, “straight”/overall hetero-leaning worship and superiority, gender conformity, etc. What makes it an even more complicated issue is that sexuality, the orientation spectrum, relationships, gender, identity, “coming out”- these are very personal and individual things.
I really do believe some of these people think that they have everyone’s best interests at heart, that they are assisting someone in getting the best career possible. And that does speak to the wider problem. But a lot of people are indeed driven by their own traumas, internal phobias, internal conflicts, resentments, fantasies. And they stain everyone else with them.
CurtisIsTheOne
DONSTON: “Clap, clap clap”. That’s all i have to say. Clearly stated, succinct and to the point. Well done!
MacAdvisor
I think Harvey Milk was right, “If a bullet should enter my brain, let that bullet destroy every closet door.”
cuteguy
Has anyone given thought that maybe these gay industry folks were trying to protect this actor? I know the more representation we have the better but at what expense? Case in point, Rupert Evert. He has said he regretted coming out bc it destroyed his career. I am conflicted bc I understand that the more actors publicly coming out, it shows support for us but at the same time if I were in their shoes, what would I do? And before that m0ron commentator on here named Cam call me a bot or a faux news troll (or others like him), I can assure you I’m not. I am however entitled to my opinion, whether you agree or not
trsxyz
Perhaps they were trying to protect this actor with their advice. I’ve yet to see an instance where coming out as an actor has not significantly impacted that person’s career. I’m not saying that it’s acceptable. But sadly it appears to be the case.
Josh447
There was something about Rupert, an ever so slight but noticeable to me mopey dark inner guilt possibly about being gay publicly etc that I think was part of the problem. He may have done himself in, in a way.
It seems the gay actors who possess the acting chops (and he did) who are settled in themselves do well i.e. Zack Quinto Jonathan Bailey Ian McCallum etc.
I think great actors if they were to come out in a clean bold fashion, i.e. say Chris Pine, their careers wouldn’t skip a beat.
Donston
There are “gay” actors who have had passable careers post “coming out”. But none are genuine leading men. Once you connect to “gay” the standards of your career are lowered. Yes, you can keep getting work, but there’s a ceiling and there are certain opportunities that will not be here for you. Even Rupert continued to get a handful of roles. But his days of being a hunky leading man were over. He quickly got reduced to bit roles and the “queer friend”. Rupert’s situation was also over 20 years ago. Things have changed a bit over the past decade.
I don’t really understand the Chris Pine comparison though. Chris has already been a leading man in multiple blockbusters. There are no examples of out “gays” who have careers like a Chris Pine. So, what’s the point of the comparison? That if a guy waits to come out after he’s already been a leading man in a couple of big franchises and is one of e more popular actors around that he might have a chance of maintaining his success post outing?
Joshooeerr
It’s funny that people always cite Rupert Everrett when talking about the perils of coming out. First, Everrett’s moment was 30 years ago, and a lot has changed since then. But more crucially Everrett being open about his sexuality was not what killed his career. Even on the evidence of his own autobiography there were several far more crucial factors. He made some lousy choices after his one breakthrough hit movie, and a series of flops will do in any actor. Second, he was a drug-fuelled arsehole at the time, and he pissed off just about everyone he worked with. He was also an arrogant self-promoter who became more famous for being Rupert Everrett Party Animal, which increasingly overshadowed whatever credentials he’d established as an actor. Being openly gay since then has not been a problem for Matt Bomer, Neil Patrick Harris, Zachary Quinto, Andrew Rannells or Luke Evans – all of whom have more successfully endured in roughly the same territory as Everrett (i.e. playing supporting characters in major films and leads in smaller, indie or TV projects). Nor has it been an issue for much more esteemed gay actors like Ian McKellan, Nathan Lane and David Hyde Pierce. Or for a very long list of jobbing actors like Ben Whishaw, Ezra Miller, Wilson Cruz, Lee Pace, Jim Parsons, BD Wong, Billy Porter, Brandon Flynn, Noah Galvin or Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Or for lesbians like Kristen Stewart, Sarah Paulson, Evan Rachael Wood, Sara Ramirez or Samira Wiley. It really is time to retire the phoney Beware The Curse of Rupert Everrett argument.
Donston
It is time to stop using Rupert as a default. It was too long ago. However, there are people trying to re-write history. His career did suffer from “coming out”. You can’t deny that. There’s also no denying guys like Luke Evans or Matt Bomer probably missed out on some opportunities due to being “out”.
Almost one-third of actors attach themselves to some form of “queerness”. So, of course, they’ll be plenty examples of them getting work. But there are still obvious biases and limitations, especially if you connect yourself to “gay” or have legit and public same-sex commitments. Otherwise, we wouldn’t keep hearing actors talk about being advised to stay closeted if they want their careers to prosper. It keeps happening for a reason.
Donston
Almost all those actors that you listed have talked about people in the industry telling them to stay closeted. The industry de-sexualizing “gay” men. Once you attach yourself to “gay” they no longer see you as having sex appeal or leading man qualities. They also use gay identifying actors as tokens, giving out a handful of minor roles in a big productions or leading roles in productions hardly anyone sees. Or, they’re reduced to just doing comedies.
I’m not a big fan of automatically going into victim mode. But there’s still a lot of work to be done and a lot of gay shaming, male homophobia, internalized homohobia and hetero pressures in the entertainment industry.
pscheck2
I can empathize with those actors wishing to come out, but hesitate doing so because of the consequences attached to this action! I do dislike those celebs. who take on ‘Beards’ to hide their true sexual orientation while doing the DL with their boyfriends! This is happening more and more in sports, especially in the NFL franchises! Some iconic sports figures are now in such arrangements (two are even married to their (former?) ‘Beards!). There are several ‘suspects’ (NFL) who have not chosen the ‘Beard’ route and still enjoy their well deserved popularity! Their secret? My Private life is my own business : “Next question?”
Josh447
Jonathan killed it in Bridgerton. It’s great to have such an open guy representing the gay community. Good going J.
Res1
I’m guilty of this as well because I know the alternative. I remember when tumblr was super popular and certain guys had become tumblr famous and they would get reblogged and posted on so many gay Tum pages. Well, some of them came out and their stock dropped rapidly. All of a sudden, gay men stopped posting them as much. Just recently I told this semi-popular guy on Twitter not to come out because his stock will drop. I don’t know if he’s just baiting the gays or not but he said he wants to go to pride. I mean, it’s sad but it seems like a lot of gay men want the illusion of heterosexuality. That attraction seems to go out the window when someone defines it.
Donston
That isn’t entirely connected to this story. But there is a point there. A guy embracing “gay” can reduce his appeal to “gays”. If you present yourself as “straight” or present yourself ambiguously, it does assist in getting obsessive, dedicated male attention. Some people like the mystery. Some people like the fantasy of whatever they have of you in their head. And a good percentage of these dudes who are willing to pay for guys are looking for straight-identifying or hetero-leaning or closeted guys, just make sure you don’t embrace “gay”. That type of stuff is a part of the general issue here. You can’t try to guilt people for not “coming out” when you’re giving most of your attention to “straight guys” and you’re only willing to pay for straight-identifying/hetero-leaning/closeted dudes. This is one of the reasons I don’t guilt people for not wanting to come out. There are way too many contradictions and too much hypocrisy in the “queer community” for people to be looking to shame others into coming out. All of this kind of stuff represents a piece of what’s going on in Hollywood and the array of issues in the entertainment industry.
Res1
@Donston Agreed. That type of thinking is antiquated, especially when we’re all adults. Most gay men with that mindset often end up alone. It’s no fun being a lonely 40-year-old.
Donston
Guys do experiment. Fluidity is real for some. A guy can be sexually hetero-leaning but fall in love with a guy. The gender, romantic, sexual, affection, emotional, commitment spectrum is an individual thing. And all that jazz. I’m not even hating on fantasies and paraphiliacs.
The problem is when you take your fantasies, traumas and/or insecurities and then apply them to the “real world”. It can assist things like “straight”/hetero-leaning superiority, internalized homophobia, femme-phobia, toxic masculinity, gay insecurities, urging guys to stay closeted, trying to shame guys into “coming out”.
We all got our issues and our fantasies. Just don’t allow them to make you a bad or problematic person or lead you down a path of loneliness or just being overall pathetic.
Cam
Just like with #MeToo , this B.S. won’t stop until the people telling actors to stay closeted are called out by name.
Enough of this “gays v. gays” B.S. Who were the bigots saying they wouldn’t hire out of the closet actors.
Mattster
IMO the people giving this advice are probably split between speaking from experience, knowing how coming out can limit an acting career, and people internalizing the homophobia of the industry/society at large. If we can’t overcome and outgrow this kind of mindset we will never have power and homophobia will still rule.
But bigots are not “announcing” they won’t hire out actors, they simply don’t hire them. There is so much competition for any role that it’s pretty much impossible to say for sure why any particular actor didn’t get it.
Cam
Except people that have been bigoted safely for a long time are sloppy. Look at how openly Harvey Winestein and Bill Cosby were attacking women. When they don’t think they’ll get caught, they aren’t subtle about it.
Donston
There have been a few actors who have named names throughout the years. But mostly, people are not gonna flat-out say they won’t cast “out” actors, because most of them will. It’s specific types of roles or productions that they just don’t cast them in. They always have the excuse of “you weren’t right the role”. While most actors say that they’re not specifically told to be closeted. They are told to keep their romances and relationships “private”. They are told that if they want to “come out” not to attach to “gay” or not to have substantial, longterm male-male relationships that the public is very aware of. If they’re male, they’re told to maintain a “masculine” image. Sometimes they’re put in hetero situations by their publicists. And most actors keep their relationship with their publicists. So, they’re not gonna “out” them. While the actor is always aware of wanting to maintain solid standing in the industry and also maintain a certain image to the public. It’s not a good look for a guy (particularly a young, “masculine” dude with sex appeal) to present himself as a “victim”, especially if he already has a ton of privilege.
It’s all a game that many people play in a variety of ways. The complications of self-understanding, identity, sexuality, the orientation spectrum, relationships, ego just make the game of fame and money more convoluted.
controversial2019
I find Jonathan to be so attractive and charismatic. He also completely succeeds at playing it straight in Bridgerton. No one would say he was a gay man playing a straight character – he is legit.
Alexis
I first saw Jonathan Bailey in ‘Chewing Gum’ and he was so hot in it. And immediately knew that he was gay.
@dusyk
Gorgeous man!
CurtisIsTheOne
Um. Who does this guy play in Bridgerton?
hoosier1969
The Viscount Anthony Bridgerton
AZ71
I think the LGBTQ+ community is causing this. McKellan is old school. Times have changed. This guy did a great job playing a straight character. So has Neil Patrick Harris in various roles. There are countless others. And the current discussion that only gay men can play gay roles is proof you can’t have it both ways. Actors are actors and play a role. Sure…try to be as diverse as you can in casting…but not everyone is right for the part regardless of their sexuality.
Donston
Almost none of this post has anything to do with his quote.
Gourmet Guy
I come down on the same side as Christopher Isherwood, who famously said that if homosexuality hadn’t existed, he would have invented it.
I’m a very happy gay man, and wouldn’t have it any other way.
Gourmet Guy
I think it’s safe to say that times have changed for gay men. I would also point out that “queer” is still the word you hear before the baseball bat comes down on your skull. I refuse to use that word to refer to gay people.
Donston
“Gay” is still widely used as an insult as well. People seem to use “queer” in order to be as inclusive as possible. Gay, Bi, trans are fine. But a lot of people have dimensions in their sense of gender or their gender expressions. A lot of people have dimensions in their sexuality or have had degrees of fluidity in their sexuality. While the romantic, sexual, affection, emotional investment, relationship commitment spectrum is wide and varied. “Queer” is a way to cover all of it.
All these terminologies have their shortcomings. And people are forever arguing about what each of these things mean. I just don’t care about what words people choose to use or embrace any longer. As long as someone is not being problematic or shaming, it really isn’t anyone’s place to dictate identities.
Josh447
Gourmet guy,
Spot on. Lgbt people are profoundly gifted at nightmarish PR moves that shoot themselves squarely in the foot via terminology. “Queer” ever being a clean non deadly word? Dream on people.
Sister Bertha Bedderthanyu
The only gay themed movie that comes to mind that broke the $100 million mark was BrokeBack Mountain. Gay films aren’t known for the box office receipts. If I’m not mistaken I think Philadelphia (starring Tom Hanks) came close but overall gay movies don’t make money.
Donston
I fail to see what any of that has to do with this actor’s quote or with the general conversation in comment section. He isn’t talking about gay themed movies. He’s talking about “gay” people in the industry directly or indirectly suggesting he stay closeted.
As far as your topic, most “gay themed” movies aren’t put in a position to make money. Most aren’t even designed to make much money or to appeal to a broad audience. They tend to be smaller films, independent films and art house movies designed to get awards. The Birdcage is the only movie that comes to mind that was made for a broad audience and to have box office appeal that had unabashedly “gay” leading characters. While stories can have “gay” leading characters without it being “gay themed”.
Josh447
SBB
Interesting. Will have to consider that.
Donston
Josh, what happened to your “friend” who didn’t want to be viewed as “queer” because he didn’t want to be grouped in with trans people and “non-binaries”? Maybe, just maybe, this “friend” never existed? Maybe you made him up to hide your own opinion behind because you didn’t want to look like a “bad guy”?
Why must you make your lies, bias, hate and ignorance so easy to see through? You resent trans people, effeminate males, males who wear “women’s clothes”, males who don’t factor into your fantasies. You’re a true ass-wipe.
Both you and Cam have nothing to contribute to any conversation outside of identity politics, shaming people and propping up your own fantasies. You are both two lame ass peas in a pod. But at least Cam is unabashedly dopey. You try to act cool and indifferent when there’s clearly a lot of resentments and insecurities there. Work on yourself.
Sister Bertha Bedderthanyu
Josh, quick question. Seeing how you and I have a different opinion than Donston is there any difference between him and Trump supporters in the sense of not speaking with one voice? The article is about a gay man in entertainment (unless I read it wrong) being offered gay roles and such for movies. But yet he says I strayed away from the topic? Considering his speech pattern and poor manipulation of the truth skills I’d say he’d make a good Log Cabin Republican.
Josh447
SBB,
I find Donston to be endlessly tortured by things he cannot change though tries madly to do so. “We must stop this, we must do that, this is intolerable. Period.” When what he really needs to do is shut up and enjoy the movie. Nothing seems to satisfy his desperate stint to shove multiple “spectrums” of his own design down everyone’s throats repeating such to a dismal and boring consequence due to total lack of interest.
He slips off the rails in the comments section spouting baseless meanderings so I wouldn’t take too much to heart if he psychotically imposes himself as room moderator superior to all, in his desperate attempt to pass himself off as an actual mature adult. Trump dictator style comes to mind.
Your comment was well received and right in line with the conversation. Alternately Donstons posts are so rambling repetitive and drawn out in length, that I choose not to read them through.
As so re: et.al., I dismiss him as mentally compromised. However I do admire his attempt at trying to work out his plethora of issues, whether conscious or un.
I hope that answers your question.
barryaksarben
We heard this same thing from Charlie Carver when The Boys in the Band came out. Im sure alot of straight advisors were not honest with him
davidkit
I look forward to the day when we can just refer to men as men. Who cares if you are gay, straight, bi, etc? Just be the best male human you can be.