Ya know, sometimes it really does take an entire article in the Wall Street Journal to explain the difference between straight heterosexual men hanging out, and straight heterosexual women hanging out.
In case you’re curious, this is what Mark Vasu and his dozen-plus Duke buddies do every year: “It’s a judgment-free, action-packed, adventure-based weekend. We go hiking, whitewater rafting, rock climbing, fly-fishing.”
University of Maryland’s School of Social Work professor Geoffrey Greif, who’s made a career out of studying how dudes chill together, “found that men generally resist high-maintenance relationships, whether with spouses, girlfriends or male pals. When picking friends, ‘men don’t want someone who is too needy,’ he says. A third of the men in his study said they learned positive things from female friendships, but 25% had a negative impression of women as friends, citing issues such as ‘cattiness’ and ‘too much drama.’ And women are more likely than men to hold grudges toward friends, according to Dr. Greif’s 2009 book, Buddy System.”
jason
I think bonding between heterosexual men can lead to some very fulfilling relationships. Many of us in the gay community don’t understand it, partly because we don’t experience it.
Our relationships with men are fraught with sex. In other words, sex interferes with the bonding, and prevents our realization of the fulfilment that can develop between heterosexual men.
In many cases, I would say that the platonic love that develops between heterosexual men is deeper than the sexual love that develops between gay men.
Jason
My best friend is straight. His best friend is gay. We have never had sex or anything because he is straight and I am gay.
ktbisl32
That article stereotypes terribly. This whole “if a guys at a poker game he will never discuss anything personal” “we just don’t do that.” It’s like John Amaechi has written about, homophobia is hurting straight men. The fear of being “effeminate” and therefore being stereotyped as “gay” means that these guys shy away from “woman-like” emotional contact. Really? Why stereotype and restrict. A male-male friendship can be however you want, a female-female friendship can be however you want and I really wish stupid Wall-Street Journal articles filled with stereotypes didn’t continue the idea that a friendship should be one way and one way only.
I pliss
I belong to a frat. I’ve been out of school for 10 years now and I still have my best straight friends that I hang out with. most are married with kids but once a month we have a boys night out or boys weekend and go somewhere fun. we even sleep in the same bed no sex. and I’ve known most of them for about 15 years now. they all know I’m gay. doesn’t matter to them. but my relationship with my straight friends will last till death do us part.
Paschal
@jason: Well different peole can have very different relationships. Often it is the case sex interferes too much in certain relationships.
D'oh, The Magnificent
@Paschal: your comments imply you only hang out with people with whom you are physically attracted to. I am gay. I have gay friends. We have never had sex together. Same with straight friends that I have. So I don’t buy what you are selling on an emotional level.
AlanInSLCUtah
I find it funny that this is even a discussion to begin with. People build relationships based on their inner feelings. Simple as that. Everyone experiences their feelings and desires differently and thus react in their natural way. No relationships are the same. They may be similar, but each is unique because of the individuals involved and the circumstances that they came about.
Giovannidude
This seems like a silly study, but Professor Greif might have a point when he says that men generally resist high-maintenance relationships, they avoid cattiness and drama.
Larry
I think friendships between straight men are more like friendships between gay men and straight women. They allow a strong amount of bonding to develop without there being any sexual tension.
Friendships between gay men, on the other hand, are like those between straight men and straight women. If there’s no mutual sexual attraction, then they can be very close and intimate; if there is, then there’s more likely to be something more going on.
I don’t know if sex necessarily disrupts bonding, as long as it doesn’t happen too early, before any kind of emotional bond forms. In the past, when I’ve had sex with friends, it just sort of happened naturally and felt more like an outgrowth of friendship as opposed to something distinct from it.
AlwaysGay
If you don’t fit into heterosexual male groups then you will never fit in and this usually means women and gay men are always out.
I find gay friendships so much better than heterosexual ones particularly heterosexual male ones. I had many heterosexual male friendships growing up and found the constant competition, invisible jockeying for status and lack of communication to be oppressive. Heterosexual male friendships are far from carefree. If you constantly lose in whatever game they play you will be outcast and most likely they won’t tell you about it so you are left wondering what happened. (No, I wasn’t one of those guys but the threat of it was scary) Heterosexual women have no issue unloading their problems onto you and usually make minor day-to-day issues bigger than they are. Gay male friendships can go south if one of your friends is interested in you but not the other way. The upsides to gay male friendships are better communication and less restrictions on what you can do.
Larry
@AlwaysGay:
“Gay male friendships can go south if one of your friends is interested in you but not the other way.”
I’ve often found the opposite to be true. In cases when I’ve had crushes on my friends, but the feeling wasn’t mutual, it often made the friendship closer and more intimate. I have one friend I had a crush on for a long time, and the fact that I was willing to confide in him about my feelings only made us closer. Incidentally, he has a friend for whom he also developed feelings, but who didn’t share them, and they’ve become very close as well.
When it come to sex and attraction in friendships between gay men, it’s usually a problem when one or both of the men can’t deal with the emotions. In some cases when I’ve slept with friends, it made us closer; it was only when the other guy was the sort who felt “dirty” after having sex that it ruined the friendship.
Charlie Jackpot
@I pliss:
I find your comment vaguely erotic – but then I watch too much porno
Nick
I think sometimes, as with when considering feminist writings, it is important to take the male/female heterosexual/homosexual binaries as ideas, metaphors even, of a larger, and generalised concept. It would be wrong to say ‘heterosexuals are like this’ ‘homosexuals are like that.’ Sometimes it has to be thought of more as ‘the oppressive group, in their nature of oppressor, show characteristics of this’ ‘the oppressed group, in the nature of oppressed, show characters of that.’
I don’t think that essentially as a homosexual, I am particularly different to a heterosexual. But the situation we have is that one group is dominant over the other: “obligatory heterosexuality.” I think it would be dismissive to say that this is not going to have an effect on some (I emphasis some) homo/hetero relationships.
I have lots of straight male friends, who I love, when they’re either alone, in a small group, or with females. But when I’m out with a big group of straight male friends, I feel different to them, and I cannot escape that, no matter how accepting they are of my homosexuality. Of course this won’t apply to everyone, the idea that we are one, hegemoneous and unified community is incredibly faulted. But I will not be the only one who feels this way, and that is significant.
Oh god, I’ve spent too much time writing essays. I’ve become completely institutionalised by the education system.
t money
i have 2 major best friends. 1 is gay the other is straight. we are open about everything. we have never fooled around.
i have other very good meaningful relationships with gay men, and with straight men.
we see eachother as friends. nothing more. no funny stuff.
the biggest difference for me is that i know how to be friends with guys. i have been in homosocial(all male) environments all my life. i grew up with 5 brothers. we had lots of friends. we were in sports together. we went on trips together. it was just a bunch of guys. as time passed and i started feeling special about other guys i made sure to maintain those boundaries. we are just friends. i maintain those same boundaries with ALL my guy friends (regardless of sexual interests)
we are friends and nothing else. there are enough other fish in the sea anyways.
does that mean that romance cant blossom from friendship? no, but it better be something special if i am going to jeopardize a friendship.
Mr. Enemabag Jones
I don’t have any friends, and I’m a better person for it.
jason
I think the problem is that we use the words homosexual and heterosexual as nouns instead of adjectives. When you use them as nouns, it obliterates everything else about the person.
My favorite saying comes from an acquaintance of mine. It goes like this:
I’m not straight, I’m not gay, I’m not bi….I’m a personality.
D'oh, The Magnificent
I think the real problem is that way too many people in post Reagan era America still look at each other in atomized sense so they project onto others what they feel. “I” means “you.” Thus, because some have not experienced a thing, then that thing, i.e. straight-gay friendships, is not possible. The reality is that reality is not defined by what any one of us knows to be true from our experiences. there is not hard fast rule. That’s the lie of self absorbed rather than self aware but outwardly open individual and community identity.
A now confused John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Charlie Jackpot: Lol!